Fibers of Our Being

Grace Klein joins Lacey Squier in conversation about her mutli-faceted journey to life in Ely, including a background in pattern and paper making. Grace is a fiber artist in all senses of the word. They discuss the positive power of reading, and how that shows up in life on the edge of the Wilderness. 

This conversation includes the following highlights: 

• Introducing Grace -- YMCA Camp Du Nord, Wintergreen Northern Wear, & more.
• How did Grace become interested in apparel design and fiber arts?
• "I love sewing and I love creating clothing that feels true to me."
• Wintergreen Northern Wear is a staple of Ely culture, fashion, and commerce.
• Foray into paper making & sustainable creative practice.
• Apparel design becomes book anatomy, paper making, and paper tapestries.
• I'm at growth and experimental phase of my art career.
• Gratitude to the Donald G. Gardner Humanities Trust.
• "Thus from knickers came literature" -- the humanities & fiber arts collide.
• Let's talk about the humanities (at the Ely Folk School).
• What are the humanities?
• The humanities, handcraft, and AI.
• As much as we need to preserve a particular craft, we need to preserve the idea of craft.
• For the love of book club.
• Playing music with The Chickadee-Dee-Dee's.
• Entrepreneurship -- "Maybe this will turn in to a business venture."
• "I have everything here that I've ever wanted."

Boundary Waters Connect -- Boundary Waters Connect is the sponsor of the Wilderness Edge Podcast. 

Grace Klein Designs -- Grace Klein is a fiber artist living in Ely, MN. 

Donald G. Gardner Humanities Trust -- This Ely, MN based trust offers grants to local artists and arts organizations. They offer two grand cycles per year. 

Chickadee-Dee-Dee music trio -- A cover band that plays music in various locations around Ely, and also offers free community singing programs at the Ely Folk School. 

Humanly Possible: Seven Hundred Years of Humanist Freethinking, Inquiry, & Hope by Sarah Bakewell -- A book that dives deep into the history of the humanism and the humanities. 

Ely Folk School -- The Ely Folk School recently created a Humanities program area, through which locals and tourists alike can learn about myriad topics. 

The Enlightenment of the Greengage Tree by Shokoofeh Azar -- The book referred to by Grace and Lacey as the current selection of their friends' book club. 

What AI Kant do -- A recommended rumination on the relationship and differences between AI and the humanities. 

Transcript

Grace Klein 0:07

We're gonna be taking all this cotton and turning it into paper. So essentially, this is like the coolest thing ever. Because of a fashion change, because people started wearing like undergarments, that spurred more rigs to be available, which then spurred more paper was accessible, which then meant more books could be printed. All because of fashion.

Lacey Squier 0:31

What has been hard about living up here?

Grace Klein 0:33

My gut reaction to that was like, it's actually been so easy, in the sense that I have everything here I've ever wanted.

Lacey Squier 0:44

Welcome to Wilderness Edge, a podcast for people who are curious about the communities on the edge of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness. In this episode, my friend Grace Klein joins me in conversation about her multifaceted journey to life in Ely, including a background in pattern and papermaking. Grace is a fiber artist in all senses of the word. We'll also talk about the positive power of reading and how that shows up in our lives on the edge of the wilderness. Hi, Grace. Hi, Lacey. Thank you for being here.

Grace Klein 1:16

Thank you for having me.

Lacey Squier 1:19

It's been a real pleasure getting to know you these past few years. And I honestly can't think of necessarily when or how we met. I feel like in Ely fashion, it was just one of those things where we probably met like five times. Yeah. You know? But I do know that we joined the same book club in the fall of 2023.

Grace Klein 1:40

Yes. That's probably how I got to know you the most. Right. But I wish I knew the exact moment that we saw each other for the first time. Yeah, that could be a treasure to behold. But I don't know. It was probably it was probably at the folk school, to be honest.

Lacey Squier 1:56

Yeah. Yeah, because we have so many there's so many overlapping bits of our Ely experiences that take place at the Ely folk school. Yes. I wonder if you'd be willing to introduce yourself to our listeners in your own words and on your own terms.

Grace Klein 2:10

Yeah. So um

Introducing Grace -- YMCA Camp Du Nord, Wintergreen Northern Wear, & more

Grace Klein 2:12

I started my journey to Ely as a tourist, um, going to YMCA Camp De Nord as a camper. And so um from the time I can I can't even remember time actually not going to Denord with my family. Um, but I was fortunate to attend for like 18 years straight. So I kind of grew up there as a like Ely visitor, and that would include like my whole extended family, so just a blast.

Lacey Squier 2:39

Um and I think that's like really profound.

Grace Klein 2:42

18 years of family camp.

Lacey Squier 2:44

How did your family become introduced to Camp De Nord?

Grace Klein 2:48

Um, my aunt worked there sometime in her college years, which leads me to my next thing, which is that I also ended up working at Denord for three summers. So I started as a program staff and then eventually landed in the family art center, which means I just helped with like art programming for youth and adults and fun classes. And that was really cool to just be able to like kind of take what I was like, whatever art I love doing, and like tell everyone else, like, hey, we're doing this. That sounds dreamy. Yeah, and and it was always super fun. So um, that was kind of like my first like intro to Ely. Um, and then I was a student at UW Madison, so I graduated graduated from there in 2022. Um, and I needed an internship for my degree in apparel and fashion design. That was my undergrad. And so I had learned about Wintergreen through being around Ely, and I was like, all right, let's see if they'll take me on. And so I just emailed Sue and was like, Hey, could I try working with you for a little bit? And so um one summer I was an intern in the mornings and then I would work at camp in the afternoon. So it was a fun split summer.

Lacey Squier 4:09

Yeah.

Grace Klein 4:10

And then the summer after I graduated from UW Madison, that's when I moved to Ely. So uh full time with a job at Wintergreen. So I found a way to move here and like do my somewhat unique degree in apparel design, you know, actually using it.

Lacey Squier 4:32

Yeah, that's cool. That is it is fascinating to think all of the things that are possible in such a small, unassuming place. Yeah, I know. But I want to circle back because you talked about Camp du Nord, you talked about your family going there. You did mention your extended family, but just the other day I learned for the first time, and I think this is fascinating how many family members were there with you at Camp Du Nord.

Grace Klein 4:58

Oh yeah, it I think the peak of our group got to be like I think it was like 28 people all like tent camping together, which was a blast. Like so fun to have like all of the cousins and like then it was suddenly like family from like other sides. So like my aunt and uncle, they're the cousins on the other, like other side, like it wasn't, you know what I mean?

Lacey Squier 5:24

So like extended, extended, yes.

Grace Klein 5:26

Yes.

Lacey Squier 5:27

I just I think that's fascinating, and it just like that kind of experience wasn't a part of my life, so it's just really powerful to hear you talk about that. Yeah. Um, and just to know that you've had this like lifelong relationship with the wilderness up here and the community.

Grace Klein 5:42

Well, and also like Camp De Nord is a seriously magical place as a like, I don't know. I feel I know that there's a lot of campers out there who've gotten this experience as a nine-year-old, but like I have very fond memories of like being 10 on the North Arm Trails, feeling like it was, you know, beautiful like just like awe-inspiring. And so every time I get to go to the North Arm, and I like literally think of that as a 10-year-old.

Lacey Squier 6:09

So well, what a like infinite universe and playground for a 10-year-old. And I mean, I feel that way for all of us living up here, but especially as a child. Yeah. So and Camdenord is on Burnside Lake. Yes. Which is just magical in and of itself.

Grace Klein 6:27

Yeah, like Blueberry Island is there. I know I like have memories of paddling out to Blueberry Island. It's hope, hopefully there's some left because they can eat quickly with a campful people. But yeah, so that was kind of like my intro to the Northwoods and like all that is possible here.

Lacey Squier 6:46

Um I have a question. Yeah. So you mentioned

How did Grace become interested in apparel design and fiber arts?

Lacey Squier 6:50

your nine-year-old self, your 10-year-old self. I'm curious, how did you get interested in like apparel design and fiber arts? Like what when you're thinking about where to go to college and what to study, how did it come to be that you studied that?

Grace Klein 7:06

Yeah, that's a good question. Because I also kind of can't remember a time that I wasn't really interested in like something like I okay, side note story. My mom literally once found me, which is not a super responsible adult thing, maybe. She found me as like a four or five-year-old, like sorting buttons from a container into little jars.

Lacey Squier 7:30

I think it's okay. Remember, remember Corey's story about feral children? I think that's okay.

Grace Klein 7:35

Yeah, so like she knew in her head, she was like, Grace would never eat one of those buttons. Like, she understands what they're for. So what were you sorting them in? I don't know. I was just a kid, like playing with buttons, and I knew I wasn't supposed to eat them. I just was like sorting with them. So then shortly after, like, I don't know, I must have been I I don't have an age, maybe like seven. I got my first little like kid sewing machine and then got to like, you know, explore what that was. And then I feel like I was I started with like doll clothes for like American girls, things like that.

Lacey Squier 8:09

You sewed your own American girl doll clothes.

Grace Klein 8:12

Well, but like think child clothes, you know, like we would like take the bottom of jeans, and by we I mean my sisters. I have an older sister and a younger sister, and we were always like making and creating our own things at home. And we'd like take that off the bottom part of jeans and turn it into like a wrap skirt for our American girl doll. And yeah, so I think I just was always drawn to making things from a young age, and then that turned into um quilting. So I was fortunate to learn how to quilt, and that was like a 4-H project I did for a couple years. Um, and then by the time I was a sophomore in high school, I um was uh going to prom and I didn't want to buy a standard prom dress, so I decided to like kind of make and design my own. What? Where I like bought a thrift store dress and like had a friend, like uh my mom's friend helped me alter it and like change it up to be more of what I wanted. And then my junior year, I made like my dream dress kind of from scratch with the help of a different friend of my mom's who like taught me how to pattern like for real. And she like worked really closely with me to like talk about how we start with a pattern and like what that looks like. And I remember I was like in pre-Calc or something like that at the time, my junior year, and I had like homework for a test I needed to study, but prom and my dress was more important, and and like I was up late, like sewing my dress. And I was like, wow, I would much rather be doing this for my homework than math. And that's when it kind of clicked where I was like, Oh yeah, okay. So

"I love sewing and I love creating clothing that feels true to me."

Grace Klein 9:55

I love sewing and I I love creating clothing that feels true to me. And um, so then that's what led me down the path of like really taking it like fashion design seriously. Um, which to be completely honest, like I didn't want to take it seriously uh for a number of reasons. One, I thought it was too like I didn't, I don't think of myself as like a fashionable person in the sense of like runway. And I've always struggled with that feeling of like um, you know, I'm not in it for the like high-end life in any way. Avant garde. Yeah, and I'm also not even like I care about what I wear, but not even as much as I maybe should. Like some people are way more stylish than me. Um and also, side note, I don't like the consumerist aspect of clothing either. Right. So it's like really strange that I ended up in that field and I also still love it. But it's because I'm I'm trying to find a lane that's like um functional, sustainable, also aesthetically pleasing, and also like, you know, uh, I don't know what the what else I'm trying to get for. Cool. Yeah, like stuff people actually want to wear and feel good about.

Lacey Squier 11:08

So, you know, you had like you were drawn by your interests and were looking to carve out like a niche that the market needs. Yeah. We all really need that.

Grace Klein 11:20

Yeah, so that's um that was kind of my mindset when I was like graduating from high school and like trying to find a place in like somewhere I knew I wanted to go to college and like I knew that fashion design was a little risky, but also felt really good and exciting. Um yeah.

Lacey Squier 11:39

I wish I could see a picture of that prom dress. Yeah, I guess in life, do you have them like accessible and available? Yeah, I do. Do you still have the dress? Yes.

Grace Klein 11:48

Of course. I'm like never that's the kind of thing I will keep forever.

Lacey Squier 11:52

Yeah. I mean, we gotta like s host some sort of event where it would make sense for you to wear it.

Grace Klein 11:59

Well, the problem is I don't know if If that's still an option, yeah.

Lacey Squier 12:04

I understand. I certainly would not fit into my junior prom dress.

Grace Klein 12:08

Maybe, maybe I would, but it would be it would be tight.

Lacey Squier 12:11

So well, I haven't had a chance to see the prom dress, but I was so fortunate as to be able to see a quilt that you made. You said in seventh grade. Yeah.

Grace Klein 12:20

In seventh grade, I made a quilt, my first quilt, and it I'm proud to say, and it won an exceptional ribbon at the county fair.

Lacey Squier 12:29

Uh, as it should have. I myself was not so talented at quilting, though I did try my best. Uh, my textiles teacher in high school, Mrs. Deesterhoft, on a regular basis had to use her prep hour to undo the damage I did to my quilt so that I could start fresh the next day.

unknown 12:47

That's so funny.

Lacey Squier 12:50

I still have that quilt and I'm really proud of it, and it was a team effort. Thank you, Mrs. Deesterhoft.

unknown 12:55

Lovely.

Lacey Squier 12:56

So I can say with some amount of confidence that the quilt you made is exceptional.

Grace Klein 13:00

Thank you. Maybe for a seventh grader.

Lacey Squier 13:02

Well, and that's also part of it. Like seventh grade, like my goodness, that's a really complex project that requires a lot of precision and talent and patience. And I think it totally tells a bit of a story about your passion for fiber arts because your average seventh grader might not persist through something like that. True. A very strong clue to talent and strength in young grace.

unknown 13:29

Thank you.

Lacey Squier 13:30

Yes. So you said you were in college, you're studying apparel design, you're coming to an understanding about what

WIntergreen Northern Wear is a staple of Ely culture, fashion, and commerce.

Lacey Squier 13:40

you're kind of interested in about that field, and you have an awareness of Wintergreen is because it's a huge staple of Ely fashion, culture, commerce. Yes. And so then you had the opportunity to work at Wintergreen.

Grace Klein 13:57

Yeah, which was like so eye-opening to me because I feel like um typical undergrads these days, I don't know if that's this is true for everyone, but um it feels like you almost don't learn exactly what you need to for like applicable skills. And I feel like Wintergreen was the first perfect way for me to learn more about like production and like um, you know, what does quality really mean? And uh how can you execute something and make it the same for like over and over again and have it always meet standards?

Speaker 3 14:34

Yeah.

Grace Klein 14:35

Um yeah, so I got to work on the sewing team, so I was like actively making the things, and then also um I work behind the scenes in pattern design too. So I'm you know, creating new designs and also editing for fit and making sure things are improved based off of customer feedback, stuff like that.

Lacey Squier 14:54

So wow, what an engaging uh job to kind of land in given your very unique background.

Grace Klein 15:03

Yeah, I know. And what's interesting, I think, is like I just want to note um my uh uh experience at UW Madison as an undergrad was very artful and very like design and like thinking about um like textiles as an art form and apparel design as a like a very creative means. Whereas like working in pattern making in a very like an industry sense is like so much more math engineering based. Like they're very different worlds, like because you're trying to maximize the cloth and you're trying to like that's all kind of odd like um computerized, like there's like it's all you know, like a system is made, like there's a program system that helps optimize fabric usage, but like the things we can control we wanna be efficient and op, you know, optimal with. Um, but also just like the act of pattern making itself is actually just like it's just 2D, you know, moving dots around it so that it fits right. Geometry kind of land, even though it's not like like it's all you know, just like measuring and making point making sure points line up. Um so that's like not, you know, the same thing as like an artful side. Yeah. So like very different sides of my brain for sure have been stretched because of apparel design.

Lacey Squier 16:28

That sounds very lovely. Yeah. I mean, maybe a little bit much at

Foray into paper making & sustainable creative practice

Lacey Squier 16:35

times, but yeah. I wonder if you would tell us about your foray into paper making and what that became for you. Because something that really stands out in my mind that I still think about is the presentation you gave at the Ely Folk School based on the Gardner G Humanities Trust grant that you received. So I'm kind of like, let's talk paper making and let's make our way to Gardner Trust.

Grace Klein 17:03

Perfect. So um I found myself in a class, my senior year at UW Madison called um sustainable creative practices. And essentially the whole class was um revolving around paper making. Um, it was super influential to me because I learned about how paper making um basically is a different way of like structuring fibers like cotton, flax, um, this fiber called abaca, which is sort of like a banana leaf. And um, so all of these like plant-based natural materials um you use water to kind of like help uh gosh, I hadn't really thought about loosen the fibers. Well, there's a beating process where you have to like beat the fibers down, and then like you have a mold and decal to like um pull them out of the water to create a flat surface. That's the paper, and then it gets pressed in a uh like a huge ton of weight, and then from there it's dried.

Lacey Squier 18:11

So I mean, let's just take a moment to appreciate the phrase molded duckle.

Grace Klein 18:16

Oh, it's mold and deckle. So it's mold frame and the decle. Yes, mold and decle. It's like the frame and then this like screen on another frame that's used to pull the fibers out of the water evenly. Yeah. And it's um a very historic like papermaking practice. You know, like what's interesting about it is like I learned the Western style, which is like more of the European form of papermaking, but there's an entire other world of the uh Eastern style papermaking, which is more Asian culture. So like there's a lot, I don't know. There I have a lot to learn with um the arts and craft of papermaking. Um, but what I learned in that class that was so impactful to me is like my professor, uh an amazing woman who to this day I still think of about, um, she like was in, you know, the papermaking world as the lead paper making professor, but also was in the fashion department as a textile artist. Yeah. And so she had a connection to the um papermak or sorry, the um pattern making studio where we used cotton muslin, which is just kind of like this the fabric that you like draft a pattern with. So it's like your tester material.

Lacey Squier 19:34

Yep.

Grace Klein 19:35

That's all cotton. She was like, oh, what a waste. We're gonna be taking all of this cotton and turning it into paper. And so that was the system was like whenever someone had old muslin that they like scraps, she would haul that bucket from one building and bring it to the paper making space, and that's the cotton we used to make paper out of. So, like that was the whole idea of like a sustainable creative practice was like using fabric that was would have been thrown out and turning it into like beautiful, beautiful paper that you could color whatever, like you could pigment it, whatever color you wanted, and blend those colors. And basically, like my mind was kind of blown in the sense of like I loved paper making. I was in the studio like as much as I could be, and I just like um I just made a ton of paper and had so much fun. And that ultimately ended up being my um senior thesis work at the time, too, which was creating little books of my colorful paper.

Apparel design becomes book anatomy, paper making, and paper tapestries

Lacey Squier 20:33

So who would have thought peril design became like book anatomy and paper? Yes, construction, development, you know. I don't know what word, but it feels like both of those feel lame compared to what you were really doing, you know? Yeah. Wow. And then eventually you became interested in weaving paper. Yeah. So then did that happen?

Grace Klein 20:57

Oh, I was in a uh this is sort of a sad time because it was during COVID. I was so excited to be in a weaving class and like learn how to use a floor loom. But because it was COVID, we couldn't like use the real studios, and so I was in an online weaving class, and the beginning of that was all paper weaving to then learn about the structures a little bit more. And I just became like entranced with the like um geometric and uh color blocking like element of paper weaving and kind of just stuck with me. So I started weaving just as like practice small scale pieces, and then that turned into like I created large sheets of paper and wanted to continue paper weaving, so I made like big paper tapestries out of my handmade paper that I wove together. And that was like uh I don't know, post post college, like two year I'm kind of still in it, but I don't weave as much as I sh did like maybe a year ago.

Lacey Squier 21:58

But they're like really stunning. To behold. And it's profound, especially to think you made the paper from natural fibers, you pigmented the paper, and then you did these extremely intricate weaving pieces of art that then some of them have been on display and maybe even for sale at the meadows.

Grace Klein 22:19

They've been on display, but I have yet to get to the point where I'm willing to part with a a weaving yet. Which at some point I I want to explore finding other homes for them, but they're a little bit um I mean sacred is a big word, but it's really hard to part ways with something that like I've put a lot of work and energy into.

Lacey Squier 22:41

I love I love the use of the word sacred. I think we should be using it more.

Grace Klein 22:45

Yeah.

Lacey Squier 22:46

I don't think it's too big of a word. You literally that thing was born at every step because of your loving labor and a really powerful knowledge of how things come to be. So it would be very difficult to put a price on that for sure.

Grace Klein 23:04

Well, also,

I'm at growth and experimental phase of my art career.

Grace Klein 23:05

I'm definitely at the stage of my art career where I'm like in a very much growth and experimental phase where I'm finding what works for me. And like I can't I can't part ways with pieces that I'm making right now because they're so they're like a timestamp of like where I'm at. Yeah. And I I'm not gonna like just send something off before I'm able to like make it again consistently.

Lacey Squier 23:32

Yep.

Grace Klein 23:33

If that makes sense. Yeah.

Lacey Squier 23:35

So what was what compelled you to apply for a Donald G. Gardner Humanities Trust grant?

Grace Klein 23:41

I had this idea that I couldn't get out of my mind where I really wanted to design some articles of clothing that used natural materials like cotton and flax, which is linen, when it's in its textile form. Um, and then turn around and then take the scrap fabric and turn it back into clothing. So basically I wanted to do what my college class was doing.

Lacey Squier 24:08

Turn the scrap and make it into paper.

Grace Klein 24:10

Yes. Sorry, turn it at turn the clothing scraps and turn that back into paper because like I just had this vision of like this is something that has been done like forever and ever through, you know, like turning scraps of like cotton rags and turning that back into um something useful. And um I just really wanted to find out how I could do it on my own. Um post-college life has like, you know, when you have a full studio it acts accessible in in college, it can be really hard leaving that space and like finding, you know, funding, I suppose, or like basically figuring out how you can you can continue your work. And the um

Gratitude to the Donald G. Gardner Humanities Trust

Grace Klein 24:58

the Garner grant, that was like my means to making it happen. So I'm so grateful that it's like available here um and that they accepted my proposal so I could like try this out and um find out what happened would happen myself.

Lacey Squier 25:16

Did you have to buy like tools and equipment with your grant money?

Grace Klein 25:20

I used um the money to get rental space in the Twin Cities at the Minnesota Center for Book Arts. They have a beater there and a space for making paper. And it was a kind of an easy way. Well, it was nice to have a grant funded opportunity to learn about the space and like get a feel for it because it can be pretty spendy as a you know, just individual artist going. And um it helped me so much to be able to like, you know, it's just a push in the right direction. Um, yeah, so I designed a dress and I bought some fabric and I made the dress, had the fabric scraps beaten up into pulp, paper pulp, and then I pulled uh some big sheets of paper and then had some weavings to show next to the dress that I made. So and it was uh like I don't know, I think it took me like nine months to do the whole project.

Lacey Squier 26:23

Wow.

Grace Klein 26:23

Which, you know, I wasn't working like it was like weekends. Right.

Lacey Squier 26:28

That's something you're doing beyond a full-time job and beyond being a very engaged member of the community member and someone who goes on pretty epic adventures on occasion.

Grace Klein 26:38

True, yeah. Yep. Yeah, so um that was just a really cool experience. And it was my first time writing a grant. So I learned a lot about what that looks like and um very just educational for me. And I'm really glad I did it. I'm really glad they, you know, trusted me with the the money, basically. That's like what it comes down to. Um, yeah, and like I then presented at the Ealy Public Library and had a great number of people there who are excited about the work, and I could show like examples of paper and talk about kind of what we've just also talked about, and again at the folk school, and there was a a fun crowd there too.

Lacey Squier 27:20

So well, listeners probably don't maybe don't know what the Gardner Humanities Trust is, but it's it's a trust of funds that has awarded over eight hundred and fifteen thousand dollars to the community artists and organizations of Ely. And I put the link to the website in the show notes so that people can familiarize themselves. We're really lucky to live in a community that has a board of people who manage this trust to distribute the funds to to folks who who apply with specific projects and a specific vision for how the the money can advance their life as an artist.

Grace Klein 28:02

Yeah, it's and I I know that they um are continually looking for artists to apply. So that I'm just gonna also say, like, they were really great and easy to work with, and like it definitely was a lot of work, but it also like doesn't have to be because like you know, if you have a new skill you want to learn or um you know, refine, like it's also available for classes and you can apply for all sorts of different things that are like they they are like ready to fund, you know, like they want to help people. So um definitely don't hold back.

Lacey Squier 28:40

There are two funding cycles, uh spring and a fall. So I don't remember, I don't have the exact dates off the top of my head, but there's two funding cycles again, a spring and a fall one, and we'll put the link to the Donald G. Gardner Humanities Trust in the show notes. Um, but

"Thus from knickers came literature" -- the humanities & fiber arts collide

Lacey Squier 29:01

I remember being at the folk school presentation and you made this passing reference to something that I thought was so silly and funny, and it's a callback to our mutual love of books and the fact that actually we both attended a book exchange hosted by our friend Anna, and through that process, you got from me a book called Humanly Possible. Yes. And you made some reference in your presentation to this. What is the phrase that is sticking in my brain not perfectly? Uh, what is it? Uh thus from Knickers came literature.

Grace Klein 29:48

Do you remember that? Yes, I remember. Well, I'm gonna take it back even further, like obvious or maybe fast forward, I suppose.

Speaker 3 29:57

Yeah.

Grace Klein 29:57

Um you had given me this book. Finally, I got around to reading it sometime in like April and of that year. And I remember like reading it before bed, and all of a sudden I came across this paragraph, which I'm tempted to just read. By all means. Um, so for those who have the book in hand, it's page 60.

Lacey Squier 30:18

Please, we encourage you, you can buy a copy at Paregas Northwoods Company bookstore.

Grace Klein 30:23

And here it goes. By the 1100s, so much copying, studying, and sharing of knowledge was going on that historians speak of a 12th century renaissance. It helped that new paper technology had now arrived in Europe from China via the Arabic world and Spain, so that more could be written without defacing old parchment. Paper was made from cloth rags, and according to a splendid theory put forth or put forward recently by Marco Mastrit, there were more rags around now because people were moving from the countryside to towns, and in towns it was fashionable to wear undergarments. These wore out faster than tough upper clothing and were often discarded, so rags were easier to source. Thus, from knickers came literature. So essentially, this is like the coolest thing ever because, like, because of a fashion change, because people started wearing like undergarments, that spurred more rags to be available, which then spurred more paper was accessible, which then meant that paper could be printed easier, and then more books could be printed, all because of fashion. Which, by the way, side note, sorry, but this uh you can clearly tell I'm very passionate about this. Love it. Like fashion as a whole, in terms of history, is doing this all the time. Like, you know, so much of like fashion trends and change like has impacted so much of our lives and history. It's just like so cool to me that like this sort of like because people like changed their style of essentially underwear, we had more books in the 1100s, which then impacted like the the literature we know and love today.

Lacey Squier 32:12

Yes. And more books equals a renaissance, right? And that's like it it all kind of ties together. Your interests and my interests merge beautifully in an epically thorough nonfiction text about 700 years worth of the history of humanist philosophy. Yes, exactly. I gather this I gather this isn't the kind of book you normally read.

Grace Klein 32:42

No, not typically. I l I do love to dabble in nonfiction as it becomes like apparent that I need to like learn about something. Um, but typically I land in like a solid novel.

Speaker 2 32:57

Yeah.

Grace Klein 32:58

Uh just give me a novel. Like recommended to me by my mom.

Speaker 3 33:02

Yeah.

Grace Klein 33:03

That's and other things too, but like, um, yeah. So I mean, I I love when someone like you, a you know, a friend who's got a great book recommendation, like you know, has it on the table, a copy, and I'm like, great, I'll, you know, yeah, like you can go ahead and read it, yeah. Like, of course, like whatever, whatever it is about it that excites you, like I'm sure I will find something. And then of course, like at night, me reading, I come across this whole story. Like, this is my whole, this is my whole evil. Yeah. Yeah. So that was thrilling to read. Mostly because like I knew, like, obviously, like I knew about how like the the cloth um paper connection was a thing, but I didn't realize its impact on history. So that was um really eye-opening to just like have it in very like concrete forms, right?

Lacey Squier 34:01

Very well researched, yes, right? Yes, because this whole book is a history of people who love books, yeah. And it I think that's something that was profound about reading it for me as well, is like, oh, how do we know things about the past? And like paper used to be so fragile, it used to be so hard to come by. And to think of the fact that technological innovations in paper making made information more accessible, which totally transformed like human existence. It's just like I find that very intriguing. Because what they were saying in the book prior to the passage you read is that paper was so hard to come by that they would actually scrape off old manuscripts and to put new manuscripts out there, which means you're losing the wisdom of the past. So the revelations and advanced technology, quote unquote advanced technology of turning underwear rags into paper, um, made it possible to preserve ancient wisdom and disseminate new wisdom. Yes. Yeah. So I'm honored that you would um pick up that book at a book swap and that you would read it, and that you would find ways to refer to it casually in your own presentation at the Gardener Humanities Trust.

Grace Klein 35:26

Well, thank you for having this, you know, giving me the recommendation because it it felt it was really exciting for me to be able to say in front of an audience of people, thus from Makers came literature.

Let's talk about the humanities (at the Ely Folk School)

Lacey Squier 35:43

Can I take a moment to be uh have uh shamelessly self-promotional?

Grace Klein 35:47

Oh, of course.

Lacey Squier 35:49

I am so in love with this book, Humanly Possible, that it actually inspired me to set up a series of classes at the folk school this summer and fall. Um I am deeply interested in the humanities as a field of study, and we can circle back to that because I think it's really unclear what that even means. Um, so I wanted to host an introduction to the humanities series of classes. So the first one I'm gonna do on June 27th, it's a Saturday, is a book club dinner party where we have dinner together. I'll make dinner. Oh, fancy. And we'll talk about this book. And people don't even have to read the full book or even the book at all. It's really an invitation to say, let's talk about the humanities. It's an introduction to humanities series, and each of the books that's paired with each of the gatherings will add layers to the conversation. But like I said, I don't know that it's incredibly I don't know that it's clear what the humanities are, even for me, right?

Grace Klein 36:58

It's yeah, I think I'm still learning and understanding now too, you know. Like I definitely, because of this book and because of you, have grown a lot more in my understanding of the humanities and why like acknowledging basically their massive, uh ooh, like basically how big they are, like, is important, but I don't

What are the humanities?

Grace Klein 37:22

know. Would you be interested in trying to define the humanities for us right now?

Lacey Squier 37:28

I would be, but it's it is scary because it's this infinitely nebulous thing. I'll try to define the humanities by saying I went to go watch a YouTube video by Sarah Bakewell, the author of this book that we've been discussing Humanly Possible, and she starts the presentation that she's giving by asking, what does it mean to be human? And my reaction to that was like, wow, that's so dramatic. You know, like the humanities, you guys, is the study of like the human experience through history and literature. As a student in high school, I took a humanities class. Every ninth grade student in Hutchinson Public High School was enrolled in humanities, and there it was a dual instructor class. And Mrs. Burghart was like the social studies and history half of that duo, and Mrs. Rydetsky was the literature, literary half of that duo. So on one hand, what is the humanities? It's literature meets history. On one hand, what is the humanities? It's studying the human experience and asking yourselves, like, what does it mean to be human? So you could go like it's just such a broad continuum of things. So in the most academic sense, it's like a field of study, and in the most philosophical sense, it's this like approach to life that requests and demands an orientation towards the wisdom we can glean from the past and the wisdom we can glean from like purely artful expression. Um but that's a lot.

Grace Klein 39:09

It is a lot to kind of you know think about how it how it is and how it's connected and like the ways it's changed over

The humanities, handcraft, and AI

Grace Klein 39:20

time.

Lacey Squier 39:20

Well, we have a mutual friend, our dear sweet friend Lucy Soderstrom.

Grace Klein 39:25

Yes.

Lacey Squier 39:25

And when she when she knew that we were thinking about having a conversation on these kind of general themes, she recommended an article in the New York Times, what AI can't do. Yeah.

Grace Klein 39:44

Got it.

Lacey Squier 39:47

And I I think maybe the the humanities is sort of like the yin to the yang of like a certain kind of like AI-based knowledge acquisition and mastery, right? It's like it's it's a philosophical approach to life and an artful approach to life, maybe. But it's also so much more than that.

Grace Klein 40:14

Yeah, it is like actually, funny enough, my sister and I were sitting on the porch or my new porch this morning, drinking coffee together.

Lacey Squier 40:25

Grace's new porch.

Grace Klein 40:26

Yeah. And she was she's an elementary school art teacher and cares so much about like being impactful on her students, and she just like her whole heart is in her job. And she feels um sometimes, I mean, for lack of a better word, like she just like is not willing to embrace AI in the way that like other people have because she knows how important it is to like work with your hands for young students to learn critical thinking on their own as a human and not like um you know, send that crit whatever critical thinking problem solving task off to some, you know, digital space to like get another answer back. So she like we just had a really good conversation this morning about like kind of her point of view as an art teacher and how like you know, it's so so important to like embrace the human hand like tactile, like we are touching and feeling things in a physical world and also like solving problems based off of our own ideas. Like, I like your own idea is so important to like work with and modify and you know try.

Lacey Squier 41:47

And to navigate through the imperfections in the process, yeah, yeah. And to to keep trying and to be consistent and persistent, and not expect an answer in like five seconds.

Grace Klein 41:59

So so, anyways, it's it's really real these days, but I like am trying to I mean that's why I want to be an artist. It's to and like I know that art is just one part of the humanities as a whole, but like because I think it's so important to just like um keep craft, you know, in my in my head and in my body.

Lacey Squier 42:26

So well that was you talked about keeping craft, and that reminded me, there was a passage I really liked. I mean, a lot of the times as I was reading this book, I was called upon to I was compelled to think about the Ely Folk School. And

As much as we need to preserve a particular craft, we need to preserve the idea of craft.

Lacey Squier 42:44

and the Ely Folk School created a humanities department because the mission of the folk school is steadily rooted in handcraft and making things, but it is also true that there's a philosophical element to that work, and that there's as much as we need to preserve the craft of petitza, we also need to preserve the idea of craft.

Grace Klein 43:13

Yeah.

Lacey Squier 43:13

And the humanities is about being building bridges across disciplines, and it's about knowledge preservation. And that's, you know, there was uh, you know, on page 56, kind of preceding what you had cited with the From Knickers to Literature, just a whole page and sort of passage on the work of early humanists being about protecting from the loss of knowledge and circling back to like why are new paper technologies important, so that we stop scraping off old manuscripts and we can hold on to the little treasures of wisdom therein, because the human experience is quite cyclical. And so if we can know how our forebears experience Life and navigated those challenges, that's really valuable wisdom for us to not try to hold on to. Um so yeah, the humanities department at the Ely Folk School being something that was created in the last few years, inspired in some part by conversations like this. Um, and a driving inspiration for me to host an introduction to the humanities series, um, which I think is brilliant.

Grace Klein 44:28

Like, I, you know, now's the time to be well, now and always is the time to talk about like literature and how it connects to things. And like I think it's just so fun to be able to get together with a group of people and like you know, I'm not always the biggest talker ever, which is funny

For the love of book club

Grace Klein 44:45

because I'm on a podcast, but like I I do love hearing what other people have to say. Yeah. And like when you read a book, sometimes I'll like wait to read a book when I know I'm gonna be able to like do it in a book club setting or like you know, have a someone else to talk about it with just because I think it's you learn so much more when you're able to discuss it. And it's like other people are gonna come to conclusions that I don't. Yeah, that will always happen. And so, like, to me, I think just finding people who um are interested in the same books as you and then like getting together, like, but your class, like, you know, it's set up perfectly because then there's dinner and time to chat.

Lacey Squier 45:30

Right. Yeah, that's my hope. And I really honestly, some of the classes inspired the fact by the fact that you and I are in a a casual social book club together, and I love that experience. And it's like, well, how can that experience be available to someone just passing through town? Or how do we kind of um yeah, I'm just interested in in kind of replicating that, and um it is nice, I guess, that I get to sort of pick the books. But anyone could come with a recommendation, like, hey, I didn't have a chance to read Humanly Possible, but I did read this book and I think it's on the same themes or or whatever. It's a very nebulous conversation.

Grace Klein 46:08

Yeah, go to the book club and like I mean, it's always better to have read the book to understand what's going on, but sometimes it's cool to like preemptively listen and then read the book. Yes. So then that way, like you're that much more prepared for what's to come. Yeah. And then you can like, you know, read it with a whole different experience. Sometimes, you know, you just don't get around to reading a book before book club, and then you're on the follow-up anyways, which is fine.

Lacey Squier 46:34

But yes, I have appreciated that the book club that we partake in is pretty chill. Yeah. Um, and I've checked in, right? Hey everyone, like I haven't had a chance to read the last two books. Like, or should I leave? Like, is this breaching the conduct of the group? And it's like, no, we we have this aspiration, we use these the books that we decide to give shape to conversation, and like half of the conversation is about the text, and then half of the conversation is about the human experience somehow related to the the themes of the work, right?

Grace Klein 47:09

So it's like, well, I didn't read the text, but I am interested in contributing a little bit of my own history with religion or what have you, which I feel like whatever is the the con you know, something in our modern world that is happening to talk about, or you know, we pose big questions to like try to answer as a group, which you know, so it's I've loved being able to like use a book club as a means for like reflection and like thinking ahead and talking about current states.

Lacey Squier 47:43

So which is a really good um segue into talking about you got to be the person who was kind of the driving person behind the selection we're reading now. Um, and I'm so grateful to you for that because it nudged me in a direction of learning that I hadn't yet gone, that I knew I wanted to go. Do you want to say anything about the book that we're reading now?

Grace Klein 48:10

Yeah, so I approached picking um a book for our book club thinking mostly about novels because that's like where I land, and also because I think we hadn't read one in a while. And so um I did some research into um there was one like basically theme. I don't know if if theme basically I wanted to have conversations around like the political state of Iran and like understanding like it their country's history and the culture and um basically so I can have a better point of view of what's going on in the world.

Lacey Squier 48:53

Make more meaning of current events.

Grace Klein 48:55

Yeah, as there's major headlines. And so I came up with like that was just one of so the book that I ended up picking for that is called Um The Enlightenment of the Green Gauge Tree by Shikufe Azar. Thank you. And there was a number of other books that had other, you know, like I had other themes in mind that I was interested in, like bringing up with the book club. But this is the the one that everyone kind of essentially voted on.

Lacey Squier 49:23

Yeah, so our process has been when it's your turn to choose, quote unquote choose, you actually suggest three to five books, and then we all rank choice vote on them. Um and I'm a huge I just encourage anyone who's interested, like please by all means start your own book club. Yeah. And you can conduct it however you want, but that's been kind of how our group has evolved. Yeah. And the people voted on the enlightenment of the green gauge tree. Yes. By Shikufe Azar. And I remember, so I, you know, people, please listeners know that you can custom order books from the Praegus bookstore, which I do and what we collectively do on a regular basis. I went and picked it up. I was walking my dog and I started walk I started reading it as I walked home. And I was so truly sucked into it. And it was really nice to just kind of get enraptured by a story, um, which I haven't gotten through, right? I'm not, I'm not through to the other side of it yet, but it is um, and then of course, then you recommend that book, and then someone else tunes in, chimes in with like, oh, here's a two-hour lecture on the recent political history of a run. And then someone chimes in with here's a podcast on a similar topic. And so the book becomes sort of a vessel through which we're trying to engage with lots of themes and topics.

Grace Klein 50:40

Yeah. Yeah. So I just find that like anytime I want to learn about something or understand something, like the best place to go is a book. And so this was just an instance where like I just felt like I didn't understand so much of that place and it was just coming up so often. And I just wanted like to appreciate like the people essentially who are going through like a lot of um, I mean, I horrors. Yeah, horrors. I don't know. I don't, I don't this is tough to talk about because like I can't even imagine. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I've never ever lived in a place with war. And um, even though like my whole life there's been wars happening somewhere, like it's just not like I literally can't even imagine at all. So, anyways, point is like this is the the best way to engage.

Lacey Squier 51:42

Yeah, and to begin imagining. Yeah, yeah. Um and the journey will continue. We're only partway through the book. We'll keep talking about it and keep learning about it, and and that's sort of ultimately what I think is the goal of the humanities, is like being infinitely curious and again drawing on both a tradition of like historical knowledge and fact, but also cultural and artistic expression to make meaning of what it means to be human. And that is just never going to be like the the ability to do that will never be exhausted, right? We're gonna keep needing that skill.

Grace Klein 52:24

Yeah. Exactly.

Lacey Squier 52:26

Okay, but there's a couple things I still want to talk to you about, and we're running out of time.

Grace Klein 52:29

Uh-oh.

The Chickadee-Dee-Dee's

Lacey Squier 52:31

You are a part of the community in a lot of ways, so I would love to hear more about some of the other things you get up to as a member of the community. Yes. Oh my gosh, we're really I have I've so I'm so ambitious with these last few minutes. I want to give you an opening to talk about entrepreneurialism. Oh, yeah. And I do want to ask, like, what you think is like you're someone who's like really doing everything you can to make it work up here. You just bought a house.

Grace Klein 52:54

Yes, yes. And by me, I mean technically we.

Lacey Squier 52:58

Yes.

Grace Klein 52:58

Of course. Yeah.

Lacey Squier 52:59

You and your partner. Yes. Um, but there's stuff that's hard about living up here. Yeah. So I just wonder if you would address that for a minute. Like you're you're making it work. Um, and there's so many powerful things. I don't know. I guess that's just the opening I want to give you.

Grace Klein 53:21

Yeah. So, okay, first part. Other things I do in Ely. Um, I'm gonna give a plug to the band, Chick-adee-dee-dee. I sing with um two other lovely individuals, and we play sometimes over the summer mostly and other events. And to be honest, I should know our next gig off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure it's at Brainstorm July 2nd. That's where you'll be able to find us.

Lacey Squier 53:50

I put the link to your Facebook page in the show notes.

Grace Klein 53:52

Oh, sweet, thanks. Yeah, so we're a cover band and we I play the ukulele, and um Ellen plays the upright bass, and so we're goofy because it's the most opposite instruments together.

Lacey Squier 54:04

Anyways. And y'all are totally lovely and charming and talented, and we love having you around.

Grace Klein 54:11

Thank you. Yeah, it's always a blast. We have fun. Um, other things, I suppose I just love being outside when I can. So, um, which I guess

Entrepreneurship -- "Maybe this will turn in to a business venture."

Grace Klein 54:22

I'm gonna also just tie into the next thing about like entrepreneurship.

Speaker 3 54:26

Yeah.

Grace Klein 54:27

Um, part of like the what I was left feeling after I finished my um Gardener Humanities grant was like, okay, what's the next step? Or someone would ask me that, like, what's your next step? And I was like, I don't know, like maybe this will turn into a business venture. Um, because like how cool would that be to like have uh under one roof, like uh apparel and paper making print production happening in you know, like a cycle, um as in recycle and like sustainability. So that's something I'm working towards, and I would like I'm in in the like middle of like figuring out how to do it, and so that's super exciting.

Lacey Squier 55:11

Um that is really exciting, yeah.

Grace Klein 55:14

It feels like I never thought I wanted to start a business like ever in my life until probably about a year ago. Yeah. Um, so now I'm just kind of trying to like do some testing and like and what changed? You just kind of saw what was possible. Yeah, I also like realized that having you know your own work um offers like a little bit of freedom and sustainability for your life. And like I I am ready to just like start that for myself. So I think it's just a growth thing.

Lacey Squier 55:48

Yeah, you're so aware of all the skills you bring to the table.

Grace Klein 55:50

Yeah. Also, like when I left college, I thought I wanted to help some other company become more sustainable, and then I realized like, no, it's way easier if you just do it yourself. So that's why. Um okay, next question. So what else did you have on your list?

Lacey Squier 56:10

Well, I'm curious, like what do you what has been hard about living up here? You know, you've been like, it's been a few years. You've made the choice to buy a home.

Grace Klein 56:24

Yeah.

Lacey Squier 56:25

And what did you have to like overcome to be able to do that?

Grace Klein 56:33

Yeah,

I have everything here that I've ever wanted.

Grace Klein 56:34

I think, well, my my gut reaction to that was like, it's actually been so easy in the sense that I like I have everything here that I've I've ever wanted, you know? Like I love being outside and exploring and running and biking and skiing, and there's that. I love music. I have an awesome group to play music with and shows to be, you know what I mean? Like, there's so much, and like, you know, there's just so many awesome people like who I have grown and like done so many amazing like I've just learned so much from the people in Ealy and I'm so grateful for that experience. So I don't think that there's been anything that's like truly, truly hard.

Upon moving here, how do I meet people? That felt hard.

Grace Klein 57:16

I know when I first moved here, I definitely felt like, whoa, how do I meet people? All this, you know, that sort of a thing, and that felt hard, but then it became so easy and almost too easy like running into people that I knew and stuff like that. So I don't know. I think um maybe what's tough is that you know, when you're in Ely, like you feel like I gotta drive a lot to get anywhere. There's a lot of driving. Yeah. That's that's challenging. But so nothing you can't overcome.

Lacey Squier 57:52

But the loneliness aspect is real. I mean, I just was looking at um journals from 2021 and 2022, and even for me, that was three years into my life in Ely. I already had lots of connections, and the loneliness is still really real. Because there's like you can have a hundred acquaintances and even ten friends, but if you don't have like one particularly close personal friend of a particular, like if if your social needs aren't being met, you can still feel lonely. Yeah, totally. So that can be a real thing. It takes a long time.

Grace Klein 58:28

Yes, it can take a long time to really like yeah, a hundred percent. I agree.

Lacey Squier 58:33

Well, I think we'll just have to have you back so we can ask you what your what big questions you're grappling with and and what that would mean for further study. What further study? What is that?

Grace Klein 58:44

No, I actually am really we will have to chat again later. Maybe give it two years. We'll see what how I how I do a deep dive into that world.

Lacey Squier 58:54

Yeah, we'll have to check up on your progress. In the meantime, is there any way that listeners, if they come to town, you know, how they can how can they support you? Where can they find your stuff? I mean, I guess we know we've got the Chickadee Dee Facebook page linked in the show notes, so there's that. Anyone is welcome to go to Wintergreen at any time. Yeah, you check out the goods there.

Grace Klein 59:14

See if you find something I made.

Lacey Squier 59:15

Yeah.

Grace Klein 59:16

And um I do have a art Instagram account or like a textile focused. It's like the username is Graceacline.designs, something like that. And that's what I've been using kind of as a portfolio just to like put out the work. But honestly, it's been a little bit um slow for the last maybe even year. So I um kind of got away from it, but it's definitely got a good breadth of my work. You can see my tapestry is there and stuff.

Lacey Squier 59:47

Yeah, we'll link that in the show notes too.

Grace Klein 59:49

Yeah.

Lacey Squier 59:50

Oh, well, I'm sad, but I think that's gonna be all for this episode. Yeah, the end is truly so sad. I want to talk to you more, Grace, but we'll just we'll keep the conversation going in due time. Yep. I'm really grateful to you. It's been really fun to learn from you and be in conversation with you, both beyond this moment and for this particular purpose.

Grace Klein 1:00:11

Well, I'm honored. I um your work is always really inspiring to me. So it's just awesome to be here.

Lacey Squier 1:00:19

We'll keep this cycle of love and inspiration going.

Speaker 2 1:00:22

Thank you.

Lacey Squier 1:00:24

All right. The Wilderness Edge Podcast is produced by Brett Ross of Boreal Roots Media, and it features music by Nick Allen. This podcast is brought to you by Boundary Waters Connect. Boundary Waters Connect is the economic and community development project of northeastern Minnesotans for wilderness, and you can learn more by visiting Boundarywaters Connect.org.