Two Guys/Questionable Credentials
We are Thomas and Adam. Two guys who don’t take things seriously and talk like experts. Come listen as we talk all things sci-fi/pop-culture.
Two Guys/Questionable Credentials
Episode 14 TNG Movies Chat
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Welcome back to another episode of Two Guys/Questionable Credentials!
This week Adam and Tom decide to walk down memory lane to the movies that made them Star Trek fans as kids. They talk about their favorite moments from Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis, picking favorite and least favorite moments. This episode is special because for the first time Tom does not have some wild tangeant.
Check out our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoGuysQuestionableCredentials
Like, Subscribe and Leave a Comment!
Follow us on Facebook as Two Guys/Questionable Credentials.
Like and Review and we’ll see you next time!
Alright, everyone, welcome back. Uh, this is two guys with question questionable credentials with your hosts Adam and Tom.
SPEAKER_00Tom, how are you doing? Oh, I'm doing alright. Um I'm currently sitting next to the Lego replica of the Enterprise D. Um, very fancy, very appropriate for this series we're on. Um, you know what? I never asked. Adam, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you for asking. I've been waiting 13 episodes. I'm doing I'm doing pretty good today.
SPEAKER_00So so we so you know, big based on the engagement, we found that there's definitely more interest in like star side Star Trek and Star Wars. So we kind of discussed last episode that we're gonna continue along that same lines. So, Adam, what do you want, what are we gonna talk about today?
SPEAKER_02Well, we're gonna talk about the next generation movies. So that would be Generations First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis.
SPEAKER_00Alright, alright. So I guess what what what do you think? Like, you know, do you do you have like a fate, like a favorite? Like which one do you think is best? Which one do you think's worse?
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, just just um, you know, if we were to just overview and say everything, I really did like all four of the movies. Um, even though Generations kind of gets mixed reviews and Nemesis gets mixed reviews. I think First Contact by far is the best of the uh four movies. I enjoyed it the most. Um you kind of it's weird because you kind of get that little bit of closure for the Borg, but then Voyager also gives you closure for the Borg, and then oh, never mind, they're back again in Picard. Uh, but you know, just the um, you know, it ties into um, you know, the first warp flight with the flight of the Phoenix and Zephyrin Cochran and everything. You get to see, you know, Picard having to confront his demons uh a little bit more in that. Um so you know, I think that was the best movie. If I had to pick one that I really didn't care for, but I still know I obviously I still liked it. Um I would have to say probably um Nemesis was the one that I'd I liked the least. Um but I do have you know I have a special um spot in my heart for Nemesis because that is the first, last, and only Star Trek movie I ever saw in theaters.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um so I'll so I am very much in the same boat. Um uh my favorite and what I consider to be the best is uh first contact. Um a lot of the reasons you said, you know, I I love I love like the time travel aspect. I love I love that I love that ship, although I will say, kind of going back to our previous episode, bridge designs. To me, that bridge design is a nightmare. So many computers, so many stations, but that's really only matters to me. But yeah, all all across the board, the way that, like you said, Picard is forced to face the Borg. Um, I've never read it, but I know that there's some serious like um nods to Moby Dick, which I mean they explain in the movie too. Um I another, you know, I I love I don't know if you heard the story about how uh Robert Picardo kind of talked his way into that movie.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I have not heard that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh long story short, he like was working on various projects and like he was starting on Voyager, and then basically just like every time he got a little higher up talking to somebody, he's like, Well, hey, I mean, if Voyager has this, you know, state-of-the-art holographic program, then you would think you would think the Enterprise would have one, right? He just kept talking all the way up until he got into that cameo.
SPEAKER_02Um which was very nice because you you definitely would uh s never see Dr. Crusher ever using it, and she flat out says it. Um but then he get he gets um that little bit of uh you see a little bit of a Dr. McCoy moment in there is I'm a doctor, not a doorstop.
SPEAKER_00And one of the other things, uh they you know, one thing I love about Star Trek is they're very good about reusing actors, also. Like um the guy who plays uh Nealys, I think his name's Ethan Phillips and Voyager. Yes, he's in that, he's on the holodeck um casino scene. Yes, he is, yeah. Um there's a there's a couple others. I think uh the one episode we did, I talked about that one video game. Uh there's an actress from that that's in it, but that's kind of a deep cut. But anyways, uh but yeah, definitely, definitely my favorite. I love I love the the like the like I said, the time travel aspect. Um I love the uh conversations that Picard has with I don't remember her name. The lady who tries to hold him holding her ho like hostage, the the Cochrane stuff, um and then uh Generations Generations is a good one if you're just like in a lighthearted mood. I mean, I my my uncle was talk my dad and I were talking about a conversation he and my uncle had where he talked about how like Generations wasn't bad, but it almost didn't seem like it would have been better as like a multi-part um episode, like a multi-episode series on next generation. I imagine there's no way maybe not no way, but I imagine that Shatner would have wanted more money and the only way they could afford it was a movie. But yeah, I mean it, you know, obviously, you know, that has some important moments, you know, everything arriving on Tuesday, um, the destruction of the Enterprise D.
SPEAKER_02Um Yeah, I the way I view generations is it was just one long next generation episode. That's what the movie is. I mean, the the one thing I I'm not being critical of the movie. It's just that it was um more or less done on a low budget of oh well we'll just reuse this set from uh Star Trek VI, we'll use this set from Next Generation, and let's just clean everything up. And hey, we've pretty much had the original cast guest star in every at some point, not all of them, but they were at least in um next generation episodes at one point or the other, and you never had the Picard versus Kirk meetup, or not verses, but um you know, both appearing on screen together. So, you know, just that by itself elevates the movie to have both captains working together, you have the classic Kirk, you know, well, if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it my way and under my terms, uh giving everyone else a hard time around him and everything. And then you just have Captain Picard who's just like, dude, we need to do this. And isn't this pretty much what you did your entire career? So get off your high horse and come and help me.
SPEAKER_00And uh, Captain on the Bridge or Bridge on the Captain. Um and then, you know, one other thing, you know, I I I I also, you know, there's some good character development too with Kirk. You know, in that opening scene, you know, when um the the uh when they're trying to s pull the ships out of whatever their words. The Nexus and they you know Scotty comes up with his another one of his crazy, this is how we're gonna do it, and the captain, whatever his name is, goes to take care of it, and Kirk says, you know, you know, Captain's place is on the bridge and goes and um and also William Shatner actually wrote I think a trilogy of books about not just Kirk, but how Kirk actually came back after that movie. I I read one of them. Same. I read one for and it was really it was interesting because it was like Kirk and I think Picard and a bunch of other various characters, and it was like a like a mirror universe thing, and it was it was really good. It's been forever since I read it. Um but then so uh I agree also that uh Nemesis may I don't think it's necessarily bad, but it's definitely my least favorite. Um honestly I don't can't really necessarily think of what why why um per se. Um I will say I think one thing that kind of brings it down is the fact that they killed data, which was sad, and then but of course that didn't matter because apparently the trope is we're just gonna keep killing data and bringing them back and killing them again and bringing them back, and eventually Brent Spiner will unfortunately pass away. But since there is no um honoring the dead, they'll just bring him back AI, literal AI, and make him a literal computer. And but I but oh I mean overall, all four very good. Um in insurrection. Uh it took me a while to enjoy because I was a stupid kid and I couldn't kind of keep along with the the plot and what was happening, but I mean I guess I guess we're only 10 minutes in. I don't even think I have anything else to say.
SPEAKER_02Um, we didn't we you know we've talked about um you know three of the four movies. Um no, not a deep dive, but yeah, insurrection was just different. I view insurrection similar to if we're gonna compare it to the original series movies, Star Trek 4, um, the journey home with the whales and everything. It was you know, you you kind of have those light-hearted moments a little bit during it. Um, you know, one of my favorite parts of the movie was whenever um Picard and Crusher and Wharf and Troy are working their way, they're on the planet and they're trying to get um all the people to a safe place. And these drone things are trying to do the site transporters to get the people out, and Worf is just doing what Worf does, and he's firing his phaser and everything, and all of a sudden it stops working, and one of these drones comes like right up over the hill, and he just takes the phaser rifle and smashes it and looks at Picardi.
SPEAKER_00He's like, Definitely experiencing aggressive tendency to because doesn't it like almost like kick start like proof puberty form or something? Because there's the whole thing about because I was just gonna say that there's you know, there was a lot of great moments for Wharf. Like the the thing on the the nose, and then um I can't remember what they call it, but then yeah, the bat thing, and then uh when Picard when uh Picard and War like Wharf is on a station somewhere, he has a funny closing line when uh there's like he's like uh they would like to surrender. It might have something to do with the fact that there's only six minutes of oxygen left.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that was really good, and also whenever um they're trying to get data back um because he's damaged at the beginning of the movie, and they're a British tar. Yes, and Picard's trying to get Worf to sing, and Worf is just like beside him, just like, no, I'm not singing. I'm you know, it goes back to the episode of the Robin Hood episode of Next Generation. He's like, sir, I'm not a married man. Um so I I thought one of the cool things, and I think we talked about it in the ship episode with the Enterprise-E, uh, is the captain's yacht that they kind of roll out for that movie. It's like, okay, so you know, we saw a lot of the Enterprise E in First Contact. You know, they're out walking on the hall, the Borg are trying to, you know, redecorate it on the inside and everything. But then they like, oh yeah, there's a captain's yacht part of this that you know is warp drive keepable. It's kind of a little bit remnant like a Delta Flyer on Voyager, a little bit. So, yeah, Insurrection was, I thought it it was a good movie. Not great, not horrible, but it was a good movie. Um, and it's just funny, you know, they mention it in Picard, um, you know, a little bit during the third season, whenever, you know, essentially the question is, is you know, John Luke is always about well, we gotta do what's best for Starfleet, we have to do best what's for the Federation. And this is a time where you could kind of argue a little bit where what they are trying to do, they're trying to get whatever the essence or life force or the radi the radiation from the sun that keeps all these people young. Um you know, I I I haven't watched Insurrection for you know a little bit, but you know, they're trying to harvest all this. And yeah, I mean the the antagonist of the movie, I forget the the species and everything, but um, you know, they're trying to get this, and it's completely selfish. But the Federation is also looking to benefit from this too. And then Picard's like, no, no, no, no. No, it's kind of like a reverse prime directive of, you know, well, we have to help these people. So it makes things interesting. We we do see a little bit of we see some space battles in it, we see um, you know, a Starfleet Admiral who's kind of um being led around by the nose a little bit. Um so and the whole thing is you know, you it also ties into the fact that you know the insurrection takes place right at the end of the Dominion War. Um, and I'm you know, I bring that up because I'm const I'm currently watching season seven of Deep Space Nine. Uh so you know they do a really good job of trying to tie everything the bat um, you know, tie everything together with it. So um, so yeah, yeah, like I said, Insurrection was a good movie. Uh the other thing, you know, kind of uh going back to Nemesis a little bit. My only real criticism of that movie is was it, Shinzon, um, who's Picard's uh clone who the Romulans created and everything. I think that was the biggest letdown of that movie. You got to see some awesome space battles. You we got to see something with the Romulans which you hadn't really seen before, because everything is, you know, the Klingons always have some kind of role to play. So you get to see the the Romulans involved in it. But Shinzon is just a letdown of an antagonist in my mind. I think they could have done if you wanted to do a movie with the Romulans and then the Remens and have them going after the Federation and everything, I think they could have had, you know, developed that plot a little bit more. I think that would have elevated the movie up. But, you know, it was a solid movie.
SPEAKER_00You know, the only um sorry, if we just go back for a second, one one other thing, you know, and and again, I never watched the next generation. I'm we're I'm working my way through it slowly. And I'm sure that this is not specifically just a next generation thing, but I also I also love that you know they really show just like how respected Picard is. Because like if you think about it in both, you know, when the Enterprise is told not to get involved in the fight with the Borg, and when Picard decides that no, he's going in there, you know, everybody is on his side. You know, he you know he offers everybody an out, nobody says a word until Data drops that to hell with our orders.
SPEAKER_02But then also which is a nice bridge to something that Spock says in the original series. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And then and then at the same time, um, I'm uh uh on Insurrection, the same thing. Like Picard decides that he's gonna go rogue and help these people, and then you know, the bridge crew all realize what's happening and are down there to support him. Um unfortunately, insurrection loses points because I love Jonathan Frakes, but why would you shave an awesome beard like that? I was so I'm so jealous that I could not grow a beard, maybe I'm the minority. I mean, that did lead to funny moments about like uh isn't there something about like right, something about like a a baby's bottom and then data has to like try to.
SPEAKER_02As smooth as an android's bottom.
SPEAKER_00Oh right. And that funny, don't Data like feeling his face. But yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that that was that was kind of weird a little bit, but I I think the whole point of it is it was it was bringing back the youthfulness of the crew. So you've had you had Riker go back to season one where of next generation when he did not have a beard. Um, you had you know that funny book parts with Wharf because you know the Klingons apparently can't ever do anything small or normal. Everything has to be like, you know, just in your face kind of deal. Jordy with his eyes. Um, is really cool. The the re um the re uh the spark of chemistry between um Riker and Troy. Um you know, and even some funny moments between Troy and Crusher a little bit with you know, kind of like you know, a little bit of rejuvenation of um the body, uh with their perspective and everything. And Data's like the one who does not really get affected at all by any of it, other than the fact that he's damaged at the beginning and um you know kind of you know goes haywire a little bit. Um, but then once he's fixed and everything, everything goes um, you know, kind of back to normal a little bit.
SPEAKER_00One uh one more thing um I think that I just I gotta throw out there um before we move on, is what I would you know, we we would be remiss if we didn't talk about Data and his emotion chip.
SPEAKER_02That is very true.
SPEAKER_00That you know, that is kind of a a big plot point in generations, and then likewise comes into play with uh first contact, and honestly, also just one probably one of my top five Star Trek moments of all time, when you know Picard surrenders to the board queen, and then you know, day it appears that Data has joined forces with her and then turn turncoats on the last second when they're when I don't remember the name of the ship, but they try to, you know, he's ordered to destroy Cochran's ship. The Phoenix. The Phoenix, yes. Uh, and then you know the resistance is futile or futile, but however he says it. But and then all and then just also real quick, we you know, when you were talking about the Borg, and you're talking about how it's like, oh, you know, we got a resolution, then we got a resolution, and then something I didn't consider. Maybe I'm stupid. I am stupid, but that's not the point.
SPEAKER_02I I we just we could just question your critical.
SPEAKER_00I thought I thought the same thing you did. I was like, oh, Picard, you know, the Borg or the Borg are gone. Then um the Voyager, the the Borg are gone again. And I'm like, okay, I guess that makes sense. And maybe maybe Janeway didn't get all the Borg and then Picard finished them off, but then they show up again in Picard. Yeah. And then I guess, I guess I never considered the fact that like like they're called they're called hives, right? So I guess just like like bees, that like there's not just like one queen. There it's like they're multiple like sex of um like boar hives and then queens of their hives. I don't know, maybe that's not.
SPEAKER_02Well, it it I I've given us some thought. Whenever I watch season three of Picard and the Boar come back, it it's almost um I I don't I think whenever we with um first contact, that all goes back and happens in the past. So you have all kinds of quantum mechanics and everything that goes with that. So I don't think there's any direct connection between whenever Picard and Data kill the Borg clean and everything in first contact, and then there's no direct connection to it with Star Trek um with Picard in season three. I think that everything has a direct connection between what Janeway does with the Borg in the final episodes of Voyager. Like, you know, they introduce that virus or the nanites or whatever they do to, you know, disrupt and destroy the Borg in Voyager. It's like they don't completely, it's not completely effective. It damages the Borg. But somehow the Queen and everything, they're able to somehow survive, and then that is the Borg that we see in Picard.
SPEAKER_00Oh, so like a like somehow they like they replaced the Queen with a new Queen?
SPEAKER_02It's not that it's not that they replaced the Queen, it's that the Queen did not completely die, and she found a way to survive, and then that's whenever they kind of go low profile and then link up with the changelings, and then do the whole we're gonna this is our new plan kind of deal.
SPEAKER_00Maybe you're right. I don't know. Maybe I'll I'll look into this.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure that there's some that has to be some uh fan theories and everything that go along with that.
SPEAKER_00Because I just I feel like too that you know why like there would be like different queens and hives is because like I feel like that's why like that's why they made such a big deal with the queen and uh lacudis. Like there was a personal connection. And then likewise in Voyager, you know, the Queen, who granted looked a lot like it's not the same actress, but looked a lot like the actress in uh the character in First Contact, like she, her like focus, at least for the show's purpose, was Janeway and Seven of Nine. So I don't I I I I don't know, but I don't know, that that's a whole nother rabbit hole to go down.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And then I throw it like then you also have the other Borg that were in Picard's season two, which came out of another timeline, and then we're in the the primary timeline now, so then you technically have two different kinds you you have like the good Borg and the bad Borg. So, but anyway, yeah, that's a completely different episode. Um that's a completely different rabbit hole we can go down. Um I will I do want to say that um I don't think you know nothing was ever um you know I don't think any of the the next generation movies really let us down as fans. Um, you know, I think you know there's a lot actually.
SPEAKER_00Unlike another movie series we might dig into.
SPEAKER_02We we might dig into. Um but it it was a continuation of everything that was good with the next generation series. They did a lot of good with the characters. Um I mean, even though you know, Nemesis, they brought back Wesley Crusher for a brief cameo at the beginning of the movie whenever um Troy and Riker got married. Uh so you know that that that happened there. Um like I said, overall, can't say I dislike any of the movies, but you know, like I said at the beginning, you know, first contact, definitely the best. Nemesis the one that had the most questionable plot points and stuff. So yeah, I I think that uh that kind of uh you know wraps up our discussion on that a little bit. So uh a little bit of a preview, because of course, you know, we did the next generation movies. Our next episode, we are going to actually dig into the original series movies with that cast a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00Alright, sounds good. Hey, but before we wrap up, um I actually have um a little bit of feedback.
SPEAKER_02I I got a message today from uh It's not Haley calling me out about another mispr mispronunciation. I can't even do that.
SPEAKER_00No, that's probably coming later. No, this is actually from uh my friend Jordan. He said, I meant to tell you I listened to the the favorite Marvel characters episode of your podcast the other day. I said, Oh nice. What did you think? We're actually and then told him that we're like, you know, trying to incorporate this and like we'll talk about it on the show. And he said, I loved it. I always enjoy hearing you talk about stuff like that. I'm gonna listen to the D Seed episode next. I might check out the newest Star Trek episode. I don't know much about Star Trek, but I could always learn. And I think that's what the nice thing about this is, is that like even when we go on these like deep dives, like I I hope that if nothing else, we're like entertaining enough to listen to that like you know, we don't we don't really like you know we don't really like this is probably like the biggest like quote deep dive we've done other than just like ranking movies, like talking about character points and stuff, but like I feel like there's enough general knowledge about this stuff that like you can kind of piece together at least what we're saying, whether you've seen it or not. But anyways, I guess if we have nothing else to talk about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, or if you are one of the fans that goes really deep into everything, then you know, we are the annoying gnats on the fringe that oh my god, I can't believe they said something like that. They don't understand what they're talking about, but they actually do make a good point every once in a while.
SPEAKER_00We're we are we are too well how how did I word the other day? We know too much to be normal, but not enough to be lifelong fans.
SPEAKER_02Which makes us dangerous. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Alright, well then, I guess, wrapping up. Uh first of all, like the Facebook page to guys questionable credentials, you can find us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, pretty much anywhere except iHeartRadio, and there's one more I don't remember. A YouTube podcast specifically. Um, please leave a like and review. If you're listening on YouTube, please uh like, subscribe, leave a comment. Like Adam said, uh, you know, do you do you agree with what we said? Uh what are your favorite or what favorite next generation movies, or something you want us to talk about? You can email us at two guysnocreds at gmail.com. And yeah, I guess we will see you next time. Alright, that's the show. Thanks for hanging out with us for another episode of Two Guys Questionable Credentials. If you laughed, learned something, or are now somehow more confused than when you started, then we've done our job. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and tell a friend or an enemy we're not picky. And remember, everything discussed here is just a conversation, speculation, and two people confidently wandering through topics they may or may not fully understand. Please take none of this as legal, medical, or emotional advice. We'll see you next time.