Neutral Zone
Welcome to Neutral Zone!
A podcast about the people behind the Dentistry profession.
I'm Dr Fran Brelsford and I invite you to meet a different dentist with me on each episode.
We chat with the humans behind the drills and the instagram profiles.
No hustle, no ego, no clinical chat.
Just good old fashioned conversation, new questions, and genuine connection.
Episodes dropped on Wednesdays.
Because there’s more to life than teeth.
Neutral Zone
Aaron Yusuf
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Meet Aaron.
Aaron is a practice owner, educator, endodontist and entrepreneuer whose passion for problem solving extends far beyond dentistry.
We talk about identity, family life, fitness, practice ownership, teaching, burnout and the relentless pursuit of growth.
A conversation about problem-solving, purpose, balance, and embracing opportunities when they appear.
@vishandaaron
I'm Aaron Yusuf and this is Neutral Zone.
SPEAKER_02Hi Aaron. Welcome to Neutral Zone.
SPEAKER_00Hi.
SPEAKER_02We're on a building site today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Are you guys expanding or is this like a new site?
SPEAKER_01Uh a bit of both, really. We've uh we've got to a limit and we're building something. We got an opportunity to buy at uh old tanderi shop, so we did. And so yeah, that's what we do. We are. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's very rustic today. I like this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's cool.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna jump straight in. We always do. How much of your identity, Aaron, do you think is tied to being a dentist?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a massive amount. Uh it it wasn't necessarily that I had to be a dentist, it could be anything, but I think a lot of what I do, a lot of what I believe in is or enjoy is problem solving. And I think dentistry is full of problem solving. I think lots of careers are, and I think that that means that if there's a problem, I want to solve it. And so that is kind of my hobby, I think. I uh I bought a PlayStation 5 to offset that a little bit. So I'm uh completing my first PlayStation 5 game in like I don't know, 20 years the other day. Spider-Man 2. It was really good. But yeah, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02You like the problem solving bit of it?
SPEAKER_01I like the problem solving part of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And if you're not a dentist, then who what other hats do you have on?
SPEAKER_01Uh dad hat, definitely. Um, although my wife is just amazing, so looks after everybody uh massively. So uh yeah, that's really good. But um barbecue, I like to barbecue. Yeah, I'm enjoying that. Yeah. Although I just deal with just meat, and then all of the other sides have to be dealt with mims basically. Yeah. But weirdly, I get all the credit for the meat, and she gets none the credit for the amazing style. She does. I know. So just wanted to put out there, she should be credited for all of the sides forever.
SPEAKER_02Ah, shout out to her. And how old are your kids?
SPEAKER_01Uh 13 and 10.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so you're going into teenager bit.
SPEAKER_01We're fully into the teenage bit, yeah. It's impressive, yeah, it's impressive.
SPEAKER_02Would you recommend do you have sons or daughters?
SPEAKER_01Daughters. I've got a Naya who's 13 and Eevee who is 10.
SPEAKER_02Would you recommend dentistry to to your daughters?
SPEAKER_01Uh, it's a good question. I think that it's harder than it was, but I think that it's all this cumulative stuff. I'm a big believer in compounding, and I think that as you go on year by year, it does get a little bit easier, but you just have to go through that tough part at the start. But I've got no experience of any other career. So I'm assuming that most careers you have to go through that tough bit before you get to the bit where actually life gets a bit easier. Yeah. So I wouldn't say no, but at least they know what they're getting into.
SPEAKER_02Why do you say you think it's harder now?
SPEAKER_01I think it's harder because there's just more expectation. So I t I teach a lot and I always, and one of the things we do is like an associate school. So it's when I had a my very first NHS practice, we I found that people coming in needed like five or six things like exceptional matrices or communication, uh, those kind of little bits and and rubber down. But we always had it so that uh we have this bit where we talk about taking pictures and showing what you can what you can see. And when you take a picture of your work, it's really, really humbling because you look at it and it's never as good as you want it to be. And when I did that at the very start, we had like dental update journals, which were really crappy pictures. It would wait a month before you see it saw anybody's work, and it was like a mile away. Now you have everybody putting it on Instagram and it's in high death glossy, yeah, they can AI it now and all of this kind of stuff. And so it is really humbling because you look at it and you think, I'm not good enough. Because it takes ages to get there, and you forget that that person has taken about 30 or was there like a hundred pieces of work and must put one piece of work up at an angle with twin flash and all of this kind of stuff. Yeah, on the best day. Exactly. And I think people's expectations are higher, patients' expectations are higher.
SPEAKER_02Did you always think you were going to be a dentist? Do you consider anything else?
SPEAKER_01Uh no. Well, not no. At like 16 I did uh work experience and it was in an office and I didn't like it. And then a friend's mum said, Why don't you try working the dental practice I'm at? It was an orthodontic practice and it was better than the other one. So I was like, Well, let's just do that.
SPEAKER_02And now you're an endodontist.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I do a bit of endo.
SPEAKER_02What do you like about endo? I can't think of anything worse.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah. I don't know. It's it's good. It's you get to me you get I like I like challenges, I like problem solving, and I like gadgets, and it has everything combined into one. But again, I just fell ease with it. It wasn't like I specifically went, I love endo, let's just do it. You do it, you get training to do something, you get better at it, and suddenly because you're better at it, you like it, and then it kind of revolves around. And it fits into owning practices and kind of all of that kind of stuff, nice two-hour chunk appointment where you're not then yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. They're the best days, I think, where you've got more treatment, less patience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That fly.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. You can just get into that zone and just do it's nice.
SPEAKER_02Flow state.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Outside of um work, outside of endo, and you mentioned barbecuing, is there anything like other hobbies you have that you think help you look after yourself?
SPEAKER_01So I've just well, I say I just started, about I guess a year and a half ago, I was I started with the RV fitness team and Craig. Um so I've been in it in like a health mode. So I've been lost like 15 kilograms, so it's not bad. Yeah, they're really good, really, really good. Um, and you know, it was kind of a bit of comfort because they're all well, not Craig's not Asian, but it's kind of like a bunch of Asian dentists who you kind of think have gone through something similar. You kind of you can connect um with them and they have kind of taken that journey of just getting better to health. I think a lot of I like I'm 44, so I think a lot of 40-year-olds, four-year-old men are kind of going through that phase where you kind of look at yourself, the kids are old enough, not that they can look after themselves, but that you're not having to be constantly with them. So, got time for gym, got time for nutrition, got time for dry chicken breasts and and veg. So, yeah. So, yeah, so I'm doing that at the moment. So that that you know what, that takes up a lot of mental energy just to kind of think about your meal plan and workout. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Cracking.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_02What sort of stuff do they have you doing in the gym?
SPEAKER_01Uh they rotate it. It's mostly kind of weights, it's the kind of 10,000 steps, build muscle, three three steps of gym a week, but it's that like nobody told me about, or nobody previously had told me like going to failure, which just sounds scary. Well, it is scary, yeah. Just keep lifting spill you drop. Yeah, exactly. On yourself, yeah.
SPEAKER_02After a busy day.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Well, this is it. This is it. It's all about and it's just uh again, it was it's it's a problem, isn't it? It's problem solving, it's finding when you're best in the day to do it and different days to do it. It's just it's all it's like life is just this massive jigsaw, isn't it, where everything's moving and you're just trying to fit everything together.
SPEAKER_02Balance or some kind of balance.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Since you've started the fitness thing, do you do you notice yourself feeling better at work for doing it?
SPEAKER_01Better at work for doing it. Uh I don't know. I probably feel better about myself. Um And I definitely think I don't know if it makes me better at work. It's like it can lift heavier files, maybe. I don't know. Like those size 70k files are like no problem at all, anyone. But no, I think it just it just makes me feel better, I think. On different days, right? So I'm I'm in a calorie deficit. Um, so I guess that's a discipline, isn't it? It is, it's hard. It's really, really hard. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Do you track all the meals and the macros?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's tricky. It is tricky. It is tricky. I I just do wonder whether I should have done that a long time ago. Um, but I I you know, I so I used to live in um Collier's Wood, and it used to be strictly work, and then it I was either work or out, pretty much. And then they like that little area has like a KFC drive-thru. I reckon I would probably go there like four times a week.
SPEAKER_02Really? Yeah. At one point.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. It was just like, why would you not want KFC? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I like uh I like a cheeky KFC. In fact, uh where I work every summer we have a a summer barbecue and it's just champagne and KFC.
SPEAKER_01Oh, see that's that's just my tradition. I think we should yeah, we'll instigate that.
SPEAKER_02It's so chic in Harlem Park. What do you think you'd be if you weren't a dentist, Aaron?
SPEAKER_01Uh I don't know. I generally live somewhere else. Yeah, yeah. I think do you know what? I heard of one person who um was a god, what was it? Something like when there's a international crisis, it's a charity organization that involves logistics. I don't know what they exactly do, but like he uses his problem solving skills to kind of work out how to get packages of food to certain places with certain things. Yeah, I was like, that sounds really, really cool. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You're not on the plane. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02One day a week I do admin days, but imagine waking up tired on an on a day and just thinking, oh, I work from home today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, it'd just be so must be.
SPEAKER_02What do you find toughest about a job?
SPEAKER_01Uh just the relentlessness of it. It's like re like see one patient, reset, go again, and all the extra admin stuff that then just comes on top of that. So notes and all of that, and then you make something easier by getting something like Heidi AI or whatever it is, and then all of a sudden there's more stuff on top of that. So it's you keep whatever you feed in and whatever you think can make you quicker, you then end up leaving room for more stuff on top of that.
SPEAKER_02And you have to make sure that's working in the morning and exactly.
SPEAKER_01And it's issues that you never thought you'd have, right? And I mean that's that's just the dentistry side, but then the the management side is just like ish like working out if this thing is GDPR compliant or what a DPA agreement is or what this like, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Do you like that you're a practice owner and clinician? Do you like the balance or or the mixture or yeah?
SPEAKER_01So I I teach practice ownership and obviously doing endo and a bit of general. And I love it because I think each day I'm doing something different. The problem then becomes when you add an extra thing to the mix, like buying a new practice or building uh building a site, and that's partly why you know you've got partners like George, Ben, Mo, Fish. Uh just it makes it more fun because then you can you can like enjoy your triumphs together, but also bitch together. And you know, it's it's it's quite fun.
SPEAKER_02You're mates, aren't you? Really?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. We yeah, I've known all of them for a really, really long time. And it's just it's it's good fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Definitely couldn't do it alone.
SPEAKER_01No, it's just not uh no, it's just not it's not not enjoyable. No, it's not enjoyable, I don't think.
SPEAKER_02And what do you love about the job?
SPEAKER_01Uh as in my my role in general out of all three, I love that I'm doing something different each time. I love that I'm meeting new people, I love that problem solving or interacting uh in different ways with different people.
SPEAKER_02I think have you ever had like good mentors throughout your careers?
SPEAKER_01Anyone spring to mind or uh Yeah, I think there's loads of people that I've picked up stuff from. I think so. Neil, the first Neil Douglas, the first guy that I worked for, learned a lot from him. Lynn, first sort of official practice manager I had, learned a lot from her. Uh and then these guys like George, Mo, uh Vish and Ben, I think they all they might be a bit younger than me, but they've all got just different life experiences. I think you can learn something off everyone, yeah. I think you know that thing about how everyone's got like five stories. There's also everyone's got like a different outlook and a different view on things, and you can just pick up stuff from people all the time. You just need to listen, really.
SPEAKER_02Five stories, that's interesting. You know what I'm gonna ask you now.
SPEAKER_01I know what you've been asking. I know what you've been asked.
SPEAKER_02What would one of your five stories be?
SPEAKER_01One of my five stories is uh I was at Hardev, who's a dentist's brother's wedding in India, and we went to Chandaga. And it was it was such a cool adventure because never been to India before. So my I I'm originally from well, I'm born here, but my parents are Caribbean. So India was just like completely new to me to the point at which got off there was like no uh wing mirrors on the cars and just going, where are we going? So we went to Delhi first, got on a train, went to the toilet, like there's a hole, so do your stuff. Um, and then so it was all like really new experiences, but anyway, this is a long story. Go for it. Uh uh, like we were worried about getting ill before the wedding, so we only ate McDonald's chicken macaraja. Macaraja burger? Random, but we got no sauce on it, so we just had the burger buns and the chicken. We were only in Delhi for like two days before going on to Chandaga. Uh, and then one night we went a friend of mine, Omar's cousin, took us to this meal. I swear it was the best meal we've ever had. He just he was there with us and kind of knew, you know, like when you know what to order. Yeah. KFC, you know, when you know what to order. Um, and it was it was really good, but we were just not well afterwards. Really? Yeah. The next so the that whole trip we went great. And then we got to Chundika, and Chandika's like, is it zones? I think it's zones, they call it all the block or something. Well, zones or blocks, is that one, two, three, four, five, up to whatever it was. And the guys went for dinner. I then felt a bit better and I was like, I'll join you for dinner. And this is thought pre-mobile phones, but like it wasn't like roaming and all that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02Taking photos.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. So I they were like, Well, okay, just get in a tuk-tuk and go to um zone 16. And I was like, okay, I'll go to zone 16. And we were like in zone eight. So you'd assume that you go 9, 10, 11, 12, whatever, anyway. So jump in a taxi, and because I look Indian, people look at me when I I'm not speaking like Punjabi, and they're like, You're just faking this, what are you doing? So I got in this this guy, this thing, and there's another guy next to me, we were sharing this tutuck, and this guy went was just speaking uh to the driver, and they were just laughing, looking at me, laughing, looking at me, laughing. And this guy doesn't stop the tut tuk, but the other guy looks at me and goes, good luck, and then jumps out. I was like, This is Dodge's. I know, and so we're like, we went like eight, nine, ten, and then nothing for a while. Then there was a field, then there was cows, and then there was like a burning building. I was like, and I'm sitting there, and this thing's going like this, and I think the guys were trying to phone me, but because the tuk-tuk's just bouncing up and down, I can't feel the vibrations, and I'm thinking, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be uh I'm gonna be robbed. And then like as we get more into a countryside, I'm thinking, you might kill a little or kill. I'm like, well. What where didn't we go? Anyway, we he just didn't know where he's going. He pulled around to zone like 19 and I just jumped out and ran and then made it to the restaurant. Yeah, that's one of my stories.
SPEAKER_02It's not a bad one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's yeah, the time I was kidnapped in India. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What did that teach you?
SPEAKER_01It's it told me I could run.
SPEAKER_02And that fight or flight gets in.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Um, you mentioned you do some teaching, Aaron. What makes a good student?
SPEAKER_01I think someone that's open to listening, uh, and some that's open to changing what they're doing, uh, even if it's just like a little bit or incrementally, I think that's that's the key. What we found when we were doing, we started a this course with the NHS actually, and it was that a lot of people wanted to start doing something, but then didn't have the kit to do it. So luckily the NHS found uh funded giving them the kit. So for example, rubber dam, we'd give a rubber dam kit so you could instantly apply it to practice. Yes, yeah. Exactly. But then even then with that, we need to be willing to put it into practice, have that extra 10 minutes for your appointment to kind of go forward from that. So composite matrixing. So we gave them uh an incidental have sorted us out with some some stuff. Uh and being able to use that, it's just it's just I think it's a game changer if if people then take the time to do it. Because if you do it wrong, then you're just doing the wrong thing. If you're doing it, I say wrong, there's so many varieties of right, isn't there, or so many different varieties of wrong that I think you know, it's just getting better incrementally.
SPEAKER_02What do you think makes a bad student?
SPEAKER_01A bad student is um is someone that has dismissed everything right from the off, so instantly feels that they can't learn or won't listen. I think it's just it's just that. It's you you can have that negative mindset. I think it'll have to be an open mindset.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they've kind of already decided before.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_02I think it's definitely Has there ever been a time that you thought you'd step back from dentistry? You'd quite enjoy it as a whole.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think over the course of the last 13 years with the kids, I've had time where times where I've been looking after the kids. As in not like one whilst Namasha's been at work, um, so I've taken some days off. And but it's always been an ebb and flow and it's always been quite nice. What we do do actually is I so I I genuinely work probably like sixteen hours a day. Ma I mean 18 to 16. It honestly is conc. No. No, like with everything, everything. So I get so WhatsApp messages, I'm probably getting, I mean, you'll see my phone over there. Can you see how many notifications are already there, right? So yeah, yeah. So it's like a hundred, a hundred emails a day, like 40, 50 WhatsApp messages of DNA. Yeah, it's con it's constant. But what we do, and the deal I have with uh my wife is that we take holidays. So we managed to do about 10 weeks worth of holidays last last turn.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01So we managed to get to, we did an epic trip. So the girls and us have been watching race around the world. Uh-huh. Across the world, around the world, which anyone. And uh so we're doing lots of different things. So we went to flew into Joe Burg, went safari, we then went to Zimbabwe, crossed over to Botswana, into Zambia, and then flew, and then Namibia, and then flew back from uh Cope Town. So like that kind of stuff, like nice three-week chunks where we're just really and proper trips. Yeah. Quality time, exactly just you guys. Exactly. But that's always I think wherever is you know what you said about balance, yeah, that's offset by the fact that I am mentally busy most of the time. Exactly. And the and uh I'm very lucky that the kids are right with that in general. And they can snap me out of it, and my wife can also snap me out of it, and I'm just so lucky she just sorts out so much stuff. She's doing the behind-the-scenes stuff as well. She's the EPS, yeah. So oh and like when it comes to family and when it comes to the kids and all of that kind of stuff, it's probably the most important stuff.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. Mm-mm.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, teamwork isn't really.
SPEAKER_01I think it is. Yeah, I don't. I'm just I'm very lucky that.
SPEAKER_02It's relentless like that. Do you ever feel like you're getting burnout, or do you reach a certain point and you think I need a holiday?
SPEAKER_01Or yeah. So I think mentally I'm quite good at going, do you know what? Let's just go to sleep tonight. And then just go to bed early. So I think it might be once every six weeks or four weeks. I'm just like, right, nine o'clock, I'm done. Or just go, I'm not going to do anything. And it's usually I try and wait till the weekend to do it. So I've got an Saturday Sunday to catch up. Because you miss a day and then it just it just got an extra an extra day. Yeah. I think holidays are also quite good. Although I am away, I am I'll call it deep research or get stuff done that I can't get done. I always come back from holiday feeling really energized and kind of done, right, let's do that. So for example, this holiday uh started looking at kind of Alex Holmosy stuff, which was quite interesting. And I'm trying to work out how to really use AI more apart from the kind of the base level stuff. So I'm playing about with Whisper at the moment. Whisper. Whisper is I I'm like so old school. I never did touch typing. We like one fast where they put our hands in that, like, you know, under the keypad, and then not. So if you if you read anything I write, my my has, my a is always in front of whatever letters it needs to be, so it's AHS instead of has. Or like us, ask George if my spelling's atrocious. So anything that I can speak to is really good. And whisper flow is actually really, really good. So WhatsApp messages all of that, and you can actually whisper it. So, you know, instead of like, I'm not I feel bad whenever I leave a voice note for someone because I'm like, oh god, I've just created a load of effort for you. Um, but whisper flow allows me to do it in a Whisperflow sponsor. Um allows you to do it just kind of seamlessly talking and it picks it all up and then just sends it as a message.
SPEAKER_02That's right. You do that with emails, letters, that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And then sometimes I'll chuck it into Chat GPT too. I think that's how most people are using like uh an AI type thing, but I think I really want to get it into more into systems to just make life easier.
SPEAKER_02Do you turn your phone off when you're on holiday?
SPEAKER_01No. No, can't. No, I can't can't. But it's the Venus review on holiday. It's the I think the secret to keeping up with things is that you answer things as soon as they come in. Because otherwise you just stack them up. Yeah. And so you can't. So it it you've heard of that thing where you've got uh actually Greg is talking, it's this weekend, but I'd heard it before. I think maybe a Chris Barry thing, but you've got a um an originally from somewhere else, obviously, but it's a uh a glass jar, and if you want to fill it up, you cut the big s the big stuff in the big stones in it, then you put the small pebbles and then you fill the rest with sand. You wouldn't fill it all up with sand and then put the other bits in. So I think when it comes to filtering stuff that comes through, you've got the thing that the RB, I think it's almost the reverse with it, is that you've got the small stuff like the sand that comes in that you can answer in a one-second email. Just with one more down. Because it's the end of the day when you're tired and you're sitting there and you're going to And the number of things to answer to is over. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm I'm also very aware that if I don't answer something, then someone is sitting there waiting for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they can't do what they need to do until I answer it.
SPEAKER_02So if I can Do you know I think you only get that insight if you've had a project to do yourself. Like it's like when when I used to run a course, you'd be waiting on someone's easy response for weeks holding something back. And then I think once you've been on that end of it, you're like, I'm not letting somebody do this for my name.
SPEAKER_01I think a hundred percent. I agree with you massively on that. And I think that and it's just the simple stuff that actually is not that. Yeah. And that's I think that's the that's the really interesting thing.
SPEAKER_02Because you don't wouldn't that yeah, it's a bit like waiting for a solicitor to respond, isn't it? Yeah. And you know that it's a couple of clicks, but they you're in a pile of someone's work and it's a couple of clicks ten clients later.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_02You're not a priority.
SPEAKER_01And it's that insight, isn't it? Yeah, it's good. I think everyone needs to experience or have the insight that they are doing that to someone else as somebody else does it to them.
SPEAKER_02And it's not like you could hire a PA, because they don't there's too many eggs in the basket. How would they even know what to respond? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was speaking to someone again, we went away this weekend with a couple of families. It was a really nice week to end away, and we do it kind of every May bank holiday, and it's just a different, they're all none of them are dentists, they're all different walks of life. CEOs, actors, doctors. And it's just really interesting. Speaking to one of you about having a PA, and it was very much like, well, actually, I had a PA, but I was having to clarify everything so much that it it just wasn't worth having.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just the same number of responses.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Just a PA. Interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02One of my best friends is a PA. And she's just left uh a guy she's been working for for 14 years, and he's heartbroken. Oh. Imagine starting again from scratch with someone else.
SPEAKER_01Can you imagine? That'd be interesting. Wow. Maybe a good PA knows what, as in like when you maybe after that long. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But again, if you're busy with you know fingers in every pie, you're gonna have another person to introduce more work than it's work. How how did you meet George?
SPEAKER_01So George, uh, so I used to have a practice with John in Leatherhead. Uh, and George, after FD training, just dropped his CV through the posts. We interviewed him, really liked him, uh, and then he joined so he joined there, then he joined me at the Streatham practice, and then this came up as an opportunity, and then George came here, was ready to move on to work privately, worked here, and now I could sell it to him. And George very kindly said, Do you want to buy it with me?
SPEAKER_02Nice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was it.
SPEAKER_02Never look back.
SPEAKER_01Never look back, never look back. Yeah. So I've known him a long time.
SPEAKER_02What's it like working with a dental celebrity?
SPEAKER_01It's good. He's uh honestly, George is um I think what makes him a dental celebrity is that he's just exactly what he is there is what he is in real life. Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_02You mentioned off camera about this 80-20 rule.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Tell me a bit more about that.
SPEAKER_01I think is it Piretsky's rule? I think the 80-20 thing is just so important, and you can sh switch your percentages around, but the way I look at it is that there's so many different like phrases or different ways to say it, but it's all the uncomfortable moments in life pushes you forwards, and the 80-20s kind of that it's you've got to do the 80% well, um, but that gets you to where everyone else is. It's the 20% that's hard or has a barrier that you need to push past it, and so and and probably maybe slightly to my detriment, I keep going for the 20%, um, and the 80% kind of is almost like that's the kind of automatic thing. But the 20% I think is what you tr really try and strive for.
SPEAKER_02Where do you think that comes from though? Because not everyone does strive for that. What makes you keep pushing for more?
SPEAKER_01I'm not um motivated by money. I have been brought up to want to help help people, I guess, help people to stop people. I want to I want to be a productive member of society, I want chimer a purpose. Yeah, I think so. And I think that if I see that there's an opportunity, and it could be an opportunity to help someone, it could be an opportunity to make more money, it could be an opportunity just as an opportunity, dark opportunity, right? When I wasn't on a diet, it was an opportunity to have to have a piece of food that I've never tried before. Do you know what I mean? KFC have got that pickle burger. I'm not I'm in there, that's an opportunity. Um but no, I think it's an o it it's the opportunity, and it's taking that opportunity and making something of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think is quite cool. Or at least trying it. And there's plenty of times that I've tried something and gone, yeah, that's not working.
SPEAKER_02That's just for fun, just for the pure pleasure of adventure. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00How I do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's kind of why I started this in a way. Yeah. And you think, Why where did that come from? And then you're and then you're in the middle of it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And then sometimes you l then look back and go, How did I ever not how do I ever think this wasn't something that I should do?
SPEAKER_02Just act on these little impulses.
SPEAKER_01And I think something always comes out of it. And I think that's you know what you said about being student. Yeah. And you are doing this and you're also learning it, so you are a student, but actually an opportunity, another opportunity might piggyback off the side of this. And it might not be something that you ever thought would be possible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Or it's a bit like jobs like that, isn't it? Like you so many of them are advertised in traditionally in the BDJ or something, and then you go and do a course and you meet a dentist, and then they're like, Oh, my friend's opening this, and then they're the ones, all that random chat in a pub, and you suddenly you've got a new accountant or exactly.
SPEAKER_01And I think those are the ones that those are the people that you made the best connections with. And I think those, you know what? That is it. It's that that's the 20%. It's the 20% in a way. Randomness. Exactly. Exactly. It's the randomness. It's good to be random. I think your consciousness puts you in situations where it's comfortable, you're used to, and if you keep going and do the same things that you always do, you'll end up with the same results. It's when you And just plateau. Exactly. Which is fine. And that's not a bad thing it's not a bad thing. Yeah. But those random events are the things that I think really push you forward. You just throw yourself in. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There you go. Ignore the fear. Go with your gut.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And you know what? Between practices, I had to wait. I said that I had to wait. I I probably waited between Ridgeway and the next practice was five years. And that was because it just wasn't the right right bound for family and some kind of stuff. So and then it became the right time.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. What do they call it? Divine timing.
SPEAKER_01Divine timing.
SPEAKER_02When you come up against like failures in the business side or dentistry, how do you deal with them?
SPEAKER_01Are you someone that takes it on a lot or are you just kind of solutions or I am I am failures for myself personally? Failures for myself with a root canal, I think I take that quite harshly. I know it happens and it's great because we can always go, well, you know, biological, non-biological. And sometimes I I think of it like, are we like a fish swimming upstream? Are you keep paddling and are you actually making any difference? And there's a lot of kind of stuff with especially endo that we kind of look at it and go, we've done so many different things, but actually, are our success rates so much better than what they were previously?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then we we then chuck in survival as a kind of ah, surviving.
SPEAKER_02I always think period is a good specialty to go into because you could just, you know, your hygiene's still not good enough.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Exactly. No, a hundred percent. A hundred percent, a hundred percent. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Don't do period if anyone's thinking of which specialty. Okay, we're gonna round it up because I can't take any more of your time. What advice do you wish you'd been given if you went right back to day one being a dentist?
SPEAKER_01Um you know what I think about actually is if I could apply the knowledge I had in terms of business to another profession, would I have been more successful? So if I look at what I do in terms of working I so I work in the mouth a lot and if I took that and put that same amount of time into learning business or doing something else, could I have just been inventing a I don't know, whatever, and then doing that and then kind of doing like selling that and then doing something else and then would I have liked to be a serial entrepreneur? I think that would have been cool.
SPEAKER_02It's almost like product development and stuff as that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. I think maybe logistics, like you said. But I think I'm so far into it now that I wouldn't because I've got we've got so much.
SPEAKER_02Would you miss the clinical if you weren't doing the clinical?
SPEAKER_01I've missed the environment, I think, and meeting those patients and the like I think you can get success over the long term, and that's great. Yeah. But I think in a like a two-hour appointment, I've saved a tooth or I've and what's nice about endo is that you can kind of see the result. Like I know that's two-dimensional, uh, but you can see a result and you can instantly it's both very amazing and very humbling, because then sometimes you are I mean, we're talking about half a millimeter, and I think that's the thing in Endo people don't get well.
SPEAKER_02Or it you've done the perfect job, and for whatever reason those random cases don't work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. And I think that's I think it's nice to be able to do something and have that satisfaction of finishing it. So, like an oral surgeon is probably the best job in the world. Or injury pull up. I love the immediate tooth.
SPEAKER_02Job's done, see you later.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you're holding it in the air, aren't you? It's just like, yeah, ripping.
SPEAKER_02The patient's terrified. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01This like red dots across the wall.
SPEAKER_02We're happy. Yeah, yeah. No, that's great. Okay, let's leave it there, um, because you are a busy man. Thank you for your time.
SPEAKER_00Pleasure, thank you.
SPEAKER_02And good luck on this venture.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.