Are Millennials Financially Doomed? With Financial Advisor Bonnie Mangold

It's not in your head: Millennials really are fighting an uphill battle when it comes to finances. 

We're navigating astronomical childcare costs, an unstable job market, inflation, and more...and while still paying back our student loans. Meanwhile, we're being told the reason we're financially strapped is because we overspend on lattes and avocado toast.

On this episode, financial advisor, mom of two, and eldest daughter Bonnie Mangold joins Anita and Zara to talk about the financial realities of being a millennial in the sandwich generation. This isn't your standard financial breakdown — Bonnie gets real about the emotional nature of money, the uncomfortable nature of talking about money in families, and the importance of addressing generational cycles around finances.

She answers all our most pressing questions like:

• Should I create 529 accounts for my kids?
• What should I put in my 'if I die' binder?
• Are lattes actually the reason I can't afford a house?

Chapters

00:00
Introduction to Bonnie Mangold and her background

01:48
Target demographic: Millennials and their financial stressors

03:01
The impact of rising childcare costs and student loans

04:16
Starting with defensive financial planning

05:31
How to protect your cash cushion from inflation

06:50
The importance of legal documents and family financial planning

08:02
Supporting aging parents and long-term care considerations

13:33
Financial advice for parents on saving for children

14:44
The importance of self-care in financial planning

16:07
Creating a family financial binder and sharing information

17:52
Intergenerational financial planning and professional help

19:42
The value of delegating financial tasks

21:06
Bonnie’s personal financial situation and family planning

23:42
Using state incentives like Pennsylvania’s 529 plan

25:29
The basics of a secure financial position

26:23
Homeownership: emotional vs. financial considerations

27:56
Budgeting for a home purchase

29:50
Communicating about finances with partners

32:57
Supporting family and managing expectations

39:28
Practical steps to regain financial control

44:25
Common financial mistakes millennials make

44:44
College savings: overrated or essential?

45:04
Talking to parents about legal and financial planning

45:23
Are millennials doomed financially?

46:49
Balancing lifestyle choices and financial goals

48:03
The true cost of having children and family planning

50:32
The importance of financial security for generational health

51:54
Bonnie’s virtual practice and how to connect

52:23
Final thoughts: Self-care and financial independence

Topics covered: financial planning, millennials, family finances, emergency fund, long-term care, home buying, financial literacy, generational wealth, legal planning, savings strategies, emergency funds

Thanks for listening to The Millennial Sandwich! Don't forget to follow, subscribe and connect with us on social media 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Welcome to the Millennial Sandwich, a space for real conversations about millennials in the middle. Not just of our own minds, but also of a caregiving sandwich. I'm Dr. Anitha Chandra, a geriatrician and expert in elder care.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

And I'm Zara Hanowalt, a parenting journalist and expert in American motherhood. And even we don't have all the answers. Join us as we figure out life in the middle. Hi everybody, welcome back. Today we're here with Bonnie Mangold. She is an attorney turned financial planner, and she's amazing, and she's gonna give us so many great insights and so much good advice. So, Bonnie, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself?

SPEAKER_04 0:37

Yeah, thanks, Sarah. Happy to be here. Yeah, so I am a financial advisor. I I was a practicing attorney for about five years before making the career change. And now I I run a national financial planning practice. I work with clients in 44 states. So if you know anybody in the Dakotas, I'm looking to expand. But uh yeah, I uh I just have such a passion for financial education. And, you know, most of my clients are people who have historically been left out of these financial planning conversations. I love working with women and people of color and you know, members of the LGBTQ plus community. So so yeah, I'm I'm uh I'm excited to be here and and uh contribute to uh the conversation today.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Do you work mostly with millennials?

SPEAKER_04 1:27

I work almost exclusively with millennials. I I feel like in your late 20s you want to start financial planning, but you don't actually do it until your 30s. Um I work with a couple stragglers in their 40s and 50s. I I feel like if you were born around 1990, you're like my ideal client.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

You are also a millennial, so you relate to the people you're helping. What are some of the financial stressors that you see when people are balancing, you know, young kids and their careers? I'm assuming that's most of what you see.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

Yeah. Yeah, it's tough, right? So many people in our generation are trying to balance a really nice six-figure income, maybe for the first time in their 30s, but they also have six figures of student loans that they're working on as well. You know, there's a lot of pressure from our parents' generation for us to be homeowners. So there's also that as well. And then, you know, you're still paying off your own student loans, and then you're trying to start a fund for your kids. I mean, it can just be paralyzing thinking about all of those different elements.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

I think so many millennials feel like we were lied to because most of us grew up in the 90s when economically things were very healthy in the United States. And so we were told that we can do anything, and we were fed all these messages like find your dream job and you'll never work a day in your life. And now we're adults and we're like, but we can't afford houses.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

So and you even you've mentioned the six-figure salary. That was when we were growing up and watching TV and movies, that was like the goal beacon that it could be. Yeah. And that's not the case. Even just like surviving with children and a career and making six figures, like you said, is not the answer to all of our financial problems. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

No, and you know, I find with the rising costs of childcare too, I mean, it just I think back in the day when our parents were raising kids, right? Family maybe lived closer and family could help out. You know, I live across the country from my family, so I have to pay for childcare. And I think a lot of my clients are in a similar spot. And, you know, so often I hear, okay, we'll start investing once our littlest is out of daycare, right? And then when the littlest is out of daycare, there's a whole new set of expenses. And then, okay, then travel baseball, right? Like there's so much. So much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

So, like you said, everybody our age is talking about how we know we need to be doing something to prepare, but we don't know what we are supposed to be doing. So, where would you recommend even starting having any of these conversations?

SPEAKER_04 4:16

When we think about financial planning, our mind immediately goes to offensive financial planning. Like what can I do to build wealth, to invest, right? To be able to, you know, not work until the day that I die, right? Offense. But what I encourage my clients to do is to think about financial planning from a defensive perspective first, because your offense is only as good as your defense. One of the first things that we talk through is building that emergency fund. Because if you don't have that little pot of cash sitting around, you're one financial disaster away from permanent financial disaster and a job loss, an unexpected medical expense. Having that little cash cushion is gonna be absolutely critical, especially as your life gets bigger. You own property, kids, you have aging parents, right? You're gonna need, you're gonna need some cash. Otherwise, you're gonna turn to credit cards and the interest rates are absolutely disgusting. Or you're gonna take a 401k loan and you're basically robbing your future self, right? So I think building up that cash cushion is probably the number one most important thing that I think if you take anything away from today's conversation, having a little cash ready to roll is gonna be absolutely cool.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Any ways people can protect that cash cushion from like a tax perspective, or is there anything we can do to kind of preserve that amount instead of losing a lot of it?

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Yeah, so one of the big things that we worry about when holding cash is the eroding effects of inflation. So one of the best places to keep that cash cushion is something called a high yield savings account. Usually they're online only. You know, there's a couple that are associated with major banks, but the one that I typically recommend is called Marcus by Goldman Sachs. There's other ones, there's one through Amax, which is great. But basically, they just pay you three, three and a half percent interest for holding your money there, which inflation is about three, three and a half percent. So you're basically just treading water. If you keep it in your checking account, you're going backwards. So the high yield savings account's the best place, at least for now. Some people think, oh, well, I can just have it in invested and something safe like the S P 500. Well, it goes down. And you don't want to hope that your emergency coincides with good markets. Usually it doesn't. So having some cash at least on the sidelines in that high yield savings account is gonna be smart.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Yeah, I gotta say, I don't know most of the words you're saying.

unknown 6:54

I know.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

I was just thinking that I was just like, Yeah. And I like we are educated women. We're in our late 30s. And we, unless we have someone like you, Bonnie, we really don't even know the basics of where to start. I know, you know, when I talk to my friends about what we're doing with our money, none of us really know. Many people are talking about how to save up for college or school for your kids. Would you say your clients are also thinking about the other end of things, which is with your parents and helping them with any of this? So I feel like I don't really even know what I'm doing with my own money. So, how will I help my parents when they inevitably will need, you know, some guidance? I see it on the other end with my older adult patients who, you know, need long-term care or they're worried about how to pay for extra care in the home. Many people don't live in the same area as their children, and their children want to help. How can we kind of balance both of these things? And what would you recommend? What kind of conversation should we be having on both ends of the spectrum?

SPEAKER_04 8:03

Yeah, no, and I think that's a really important question because there's just not much education around financial literacy in this country. And I didn't grow up learning about this stuff. I had to spend six months of my life studying this and passing exams just to know what I know. And it's uh, you know, the experience over the last eight years has really helped expand my knowledge. But yeah, you're not alone in feeling that way. What I see frequently is my millennial clients, they do not want to repeat the same patterns that their parents have repeated, whether that's not planning for long-term care, not saving for retirement, not funding their personal education, right? And so there's a lot of thoughts around breaking the generational cycle with my millennial clients. So one of the things that I remind them is you can't borrow for your own retirement. And the best way to not pass down financial insecurity to the next generation is to be financially secure in and of yourself. Right? Because if you're not financially secure, guess what? The same generational pattern is gonna repeat itself. And so oftentimes there's not a lot we can do if our parents are not open to the conversation. For some reason, boomers don't want to talk about money, right? It's so private. And I think our generation is kind of coming out of that. We don't necessarily know what to talk about, but we want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Uh-huh. Because it's really putting the burden on us. We want to be able to be there for them and help them and make sure that they're comfortable and safe. But if we don't even, if we're not even part of the conversation, I wouldn't even know. I if I I wouldn't even know where to start. I actually, it took my dad dying for my mom to be even start the conversation about like, like my dad had nothing in place, didn't it wasn't expected. But like you said, these things happen. That was kind of the the impetus for my mom being kind of open to letting me into some of the stuff that's happening. It's hard to take over somebody's finances after the fact when you can't ask them questions. And I don't want to do that again. I don't want anyone else to be in that situation where they when something happens before they start this conversation. So, how can we approach our aging parents about what should we even ask them?

SPEAKER_04 10:36

I think that's a really important conversation that is made difficult by the shame associated with money. I I think for a lot of us, money isn't just a currency. There's emotion tied to it, right? There's shame, there's embarrassment, there's I coulda, whulda, pride, right? Money is success in a lot of families, right? And so I think recognizing that it's not just, oh, mom and dad, tell me about your finances. It's not just dollars and cents, decision making and accountability. There's just there's just so much wrapped up in it. To answer your question, I would start with the least intrusive pieces first. Perhaps a a very intrusive piece would be like, let me take a look at your 401k. Right? That would be very intrusive. Perhaps maybe you say, have you put a healthcare directive in place? Like, who's calling the shots if you can't make your own medical decisions, right? Pretty light touch. Um, and if they're like, well, we don't have that, well, let me refer you to an attorney. And then the attorney's not gonna let them leave without a healthcare directive, a will, a trust, a power of attorney, right? Then you kind of pass the buck to that professional. I would start with the lighter touch, less intrusive topics to really get the ball rolling on that.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

You know, when I see people in the hospital, they'll say, Well, my mom always said that she never wants us, she never wants us to put her in a facility or a nursing facility. Okay, so what what's the alternative to that? Yeah. Uh and the conversations that happen downstream from that don't haven't happened. And that's really tough because in the system that we live in, that that translates to money. If you are trying to not use insurance or not use government assistance when you're sick, is there uh is there are your finances in place to support that?

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Yeah, and there's a lot of different ways that in today's day and age we can start to get ahead of long-term care planning. I have so many of my clients who are using some of their own disposable income to pay for long-term care insurance for mom and dad. Because they know that, okay, you know, 500 bucks a month for long-term care insurance sucks. It's the last thing you want. But if they're not gonna do it themselves, which is often the case because they don't need it, or oh, it won't happen to me, or oh, don't be such a downer, right? Like whatever the reason, they'd rather pay that than know that down the road, if something happens, they're gonna be out the door for a lot more money than that.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

And what about on the other end for our kids? In order to set them up for success, what do you recommend to your clients? What should we be doing at this age? Nothing. You gotta work on yourself.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

You cannot borrow for retirement. You can borrow for kids' college, you can borrow for home ownership, you can borrow for all sorts of things. You cannot borrow for your own retirement. So I always tell parents, we don't need to start with these fancy 529 accounts. We don't need to retire my baby. I don't know if you guys have heard of that. It's there's so many things that are sensationalized on social media about ways to set your kid up. You set your kid up by not becoming a burden. So you set yourself up. And then once you know that you are properly on track to not be a burden, then you can talk about the fun, fancy stuff. But just keep yourself in order.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

That's the best thing you can do for your kid. That's a good perspective that you're right. On social media, I feel like I'm always seeing like this is what you should do to, you know, have your kid be financially independent by whatever age, but nobody is saying take care of yourself first. And yeah, so tell us more about that.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

I'm like, I feel like Zara and I are both mind blown just by hearing I was totally expecting you to like tell us all to start 529s for the kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

No, I mean, and what a millennial perspective to put ourselves last, right? It never even crosses our mind. Like, yeah, let me take care of myself, right? Like, what a millennial perspective. And that's the thing. I think it too. We're so self-sacrificial, especially millennial moms, like parenting our children, parenting our parents, parenting our own inner child. We're in it. So I'm not surprised that you have that reaction because most people don't think of it that way. But yeah, I mean, the best thing you can do for yourself is not have your child like again, think about it super morbidly, right? If I don't plan for my kids' college, but I'm not moving in with them, depending on them, having them be my retirement plan, having them be my long-term care plan, that's a win in and of itself. And if I can put legal documents in place for myself, if I can start, again, my kids are super little, and I know you guys have little kids too, but what I'm encouraging my clients who have teenagers is to do a quarterly family financial meeting. Say, hey, kids, and and you can share as much or as little as you want. Put together a binder of these are all of my usernames and passwords for all of my bank accounts, because you might be legally entitled to the money, but if you can't log in, now you're on the phone with tech support after your loved one dies. I mean, what a dude.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

It's been two years since my dad died, and I'm still trying to log into things that he never shared with me. So yeah, I definitely agree that that's something we should all be doing. It's probably stuff that they never thought about because that wasn't a thing when they were growing. I mean, maybe this won't be a thing when we're older. Who knows? But sharing, I think what you're getting at is that we should be more open with the next generation and not have them feel like they just need to guess when they're taking care of us.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

You guys heard of uh if I die binder?

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Would you like to do that?

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Do you like that idea? It's a binder full of all the information your family, kids, spouse, whoever needs in case you die unexpectedly. So it's like passwords, it's financial information, it's I don't know what else you would put in there, but basically all that relevant information.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

What would you put in the binder that you're Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

So it's funny because what I tell my clients in your if I die binder, put my name and email address. Right? Because I've been working with them for years. I know exactly where everything is. I have all of the updated information. So I think get a financial advisor, get a comprehensive, holistic financial advisor who can handle all of this. I mean, knock on wood, god forbid, I have not had a client pass away in my you know, eight years of practice, but it's coming. I know it will happen. And I tell all my clients, like, hey, I want to meet your kids. I I want to have a relationship with your kids, with your parents, right? Intergenerational financial planning can be a great way to delegate all of the work to someone just to a professional, right? I mean, it's kind of like an event planner, right? Like, why do I need to have the number of the florist and the number of the lighting person? Just say call Anitha.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Or a doctor, right? That's the kind of same kind of thing. Like they know you, they've had a this longitudinal relationship with you, they know your history, they know what you're sensitive to and what you're not. It's kind of the same thing.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

Yeah, because we don't need another to-do item on our list, right? I I don't want listeners to leave and be like, oh great. So now I need to make this whole binder. And I gotta make a binder for my parents because they're not gonna trip themselves either.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

I mean, that's why I haven't done that. I I would love to do all of these things, I think. And it's just like you said, it's another task to do. And then I I feel like whenever I talk about we do we do have a financial planner, and I when I talk to my friends who don't, one of the reasons they're hesitant is that, well, you end up paying for something I could do myself. How would you how would you respond to somebody who might be hesitant because of the finances associated with getting a financial planner?

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Yeah, I mean, how many things do you pay for that you could do yourself? Like, I'm not gonna highlight my own hair. I mean, I could, right? You know, I at a certain point have people help me with my landscaping and the luxuries of a a house cleaner, right? Like I could, right? I could spend every Saturday cleaning my house top to bottom. But then why? Why? You know, what's my highest and best use? And I think the sooner we can accept that we do not need to be masters of everything, and the more we can delegate, the better. And plus I can share this with clients, but you have to feel it, right? Um money is very emotional. And when markets start doing weird things, you start acting like a weirdo, right? Yeah. And that's why I have a financial advisor because I start acting like a weirdo with my own money. There's that emotional regulation. It's kind of like a personal trainer, right? Like you can go to the gym and do some push-ups, but are you going to? Maybe not as many.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

I also think that, especially boomers in the United States had such a distaste for outsourcing and they kind of passed that on to their kids. I feel like that is still such a taboo and still something people are trying to get past.

SPEAKER_04 20:33

Yeah, it's almost like you're admitting that you can't do it all, and therefore there's failure and shame associated with that. Which maybe, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:42

But who cares? Yeah. So, Bonnie, you are sort of exactly who our our listeners probably are. So you are in your 30s, you have young children, you have parents who are older. What do you what are you doing for your finances? Tell us kind of how what that looks like because maybe that'll be that will resonate with who might be looking for what to do.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Yeah. I'm 37, I've got a one-year-old and a three-year-old. My parents live across the country. Um, they're both semi-retired, which again, I don't even know exactly what that means. I've got two siblings, and um, we're all at different phases of life. So yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Oh, firstborn daughter, yeah. Like my daughter is the firstborn daughter and granddaughter. I'm like, good luck, girl. But yeah, so I mean, in terms of what I'm doing financially, I'm slowly becoming more and more curious about my parents' financial planning, asking, again, very light touch questions, getting them thinking about things that they should be thinking about, really just starting the dialogue, right? Because my parents are in their upper 60s, so they're still relatively young. I mean, in in today's day. And age, right? And I'm basically just trying to get myself financially stable and secure, knowing that, say, the next 10 years, my kids are going to need a lot of money from me. And perhaps my parents might as well. So working on paying down debt, working on my personal budgeting, because if I can live very securely within my means and I'm doing saving and investing now when I don't have those financial commitments, you know, five years from now, if I have to shut off all of my saving and investing and use that surplus for supporting family, I have the compounding effect of the work that I did in years prior. And I'm not living right up to my means that I have that function. So I think a lot of it is just starting to put the habits in place of living within your means, saving and investing a little bit monthly, annually, depending on how you're you're paid, and then starting to get curious about what your parents have and haven't done. Again, not that you can do anything about it.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

I mean, I acknowledge is like half of it, right? Just knowing what situation you're gonna be walking into is so helpful when you're not walking in blind. Like I have no idea what their situation is.

SPEAKER_04 23:18

Yeah, and also tell I mean I haven't I haven't done this yet, but I need to talk to my siblings, see what they're what information they're mining from mom and dad.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

I wonder how much they're even thinking about any of this. As you said, you're you're the eldest daughter. Maybe they haven't thought. I mean, you it's I guess important to have that conversation. I've never talked to my brother about this. Um and and Zara's an only. It's uh all different situations. So do you have a 529 for your kids?

SPEAKER_04 23:54

Yeah, so yeah, I opened up the 529 with the thought of when I get gifts for the kids, I'll I'll ask for money and I'll say, hey, let's put it in their 529. I mean, even if it's like 20 bucks, like I'll just earmark it and be like, all right, let's put it in their 529. So admittedly, I haven't put a ton of my own money into their 529s, but having the vehicle available, because look, if you don't have a 529 and you get 20 bucks for your kid, you're not gonna be like, okay, this is the impetus to sit down and figure out how to open a 529, right? You're gonna be like, okay, let's just uh put it on the counter.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

So it sounds like you're saying don't earmark some of your own income or whatever money is coming in to you to go directly to the kids, but anything that's coming to them in terms of gifts or kind of extra things, that makes sense to go into the 529. But your whatever money is coming to you or whatever money you're making should be, you should focus first on getting yourself in a good financial position and not putting it directly towards the kids.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

Yeah, exactly. And just to kind of give some framework around what it means to yourself be in a good financial position, right? You should have three months worth of your living expenses in cash in that high yield savings account. You should have from a defensive perspective, you should have insurance, life insurance in case you pass away prematurely. You should have disability insurance in case you get sick or hurt and can't work. You should have some legal planning documents in place. And then to be on track for retirement, 20% of what you're making pre-tax should be going away for the future. So if you make 100 grand, 20 grand going away for the future. And if you're not doing that, you have no business thinking about saving for education or anything else, really. That is what it's gonna take to be financially secure in and of yourself. And so if that's all you could ever focus on, great, you're doing the next generation a huge gift by at least doing.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

There's so much talk about owning a home with our generation and coming from the boomer generation. And for a lot of us, that just doesn't make sense in today's world. Um, what do you say to people who think their goal is to own a home? Does that always make sense? It's tough, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Because there's such an emotional value placed on home ownership, right? There's not a dollar value in a lot of cases, it's a it's an emotional piece of the puzzle. It's definition of success or stability. I've had so many clients like, I don't want to start having children until we're in our home, right? I hear that all the time. Financially, it doesn't always make sense. I mean, when you think about it surface level and you read about it on TikTok, it's like, why would I pay someone else's mortgage, right? Like, why would I rent? I'm lighting the money on fire. Uh-huh. You are. But would you rather do that and then not be on the hook for that $15,000 home repair, right? Because you don't have enough emergency savings. Would you rather be in a spot where you can maybe live in a place that's a little bigger and a little nicer than you can afford to own? There's there's no right answer. And that's why I think you need a professional to kind of dive into that with you and do the individual analysis. Because when you just look at the mass, mass publications or the mass information on this, you're you're missing the nuanced perspective that that comes with taking a deep dive.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Speaking of home ownership, I think that most people, when they start to think about buying a home, they have no idea how to set a budget. I know that we didn't. Like we really had no idea how much we could actually budget for our home because nobody really gives you a formula for that. Do you have any guidelines around like how much money you have versus how much you can spend on a home? Any kind of frameworks like that?

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Yeah, that's a great question. So there's two things to think about. Number one, how much cash can I part with for down payment closing costs? And then how much can I sustain monthly? And those are often two related points, right? Because the more you put down, the less it is monthly, but then the more you put down, the less money you actually just have. And there's no universal rule because I have clients who live in New York City. And if I say, oh, don't spend more than you know 20, 25% on housing, they're like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

And then, you know, I have clients in Des Moines who one of my clients there, she just bought this dream home she built from scratch. And I think it's like 4% of her income. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

It's really calculators don't always work for everybody.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

No, no, not at all. I always tell people, you know, you have to either decide, are you the person who is comfortable with maybe extending yourself a little bit more to get into the house where you're gonna stay for the next 20 years and you know, five years from now it's gonna feel super comfortable? Or are you the person who's like, look, I don't want to be house poor. I don't want to think about the fact that I have a mortgage payment. Like, let's just get something that's affordable and maybe not my dream house, but I can sleep at night knowing that I never think about the mortgage.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

I think so. We talked a little bit about how to talk to our parents about their financial, financial situation with so with my husband and I feel like every once in a while I'm like, we really need to be better about communicating about our finances and thinking about what we're looking at, you know, in 10 years, 20 years. And it like at one point I put in the calendar every two weeks we're gonna do a check-in. We've never done it because it seems like such it's I get that feeling. I'm like, oh man, that's gonna be like a whole thing, and I'm gonna be stressed out and I don't want to do that. How what do you recommend? Like, how should we be talking to our partners or whoever we're kind of sharing this financial um venture with? What do you recommend? How do we have these conversations with them? And what do we even talk about? That's yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 30:13

And that's I can relate so personally to that because it's like I haven't seen you all week. Let's fight about money. Let's do that.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Exactly. Two ideas on that.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

First is if you that's one of the benefits of having a financial planner, right? I force my clients to sit down and talk about this with me twice a year. And you're much more likely to not cancel on me, but you'll cancel on your spouse, right? But it's like, oh, we have an appointment with Bonnie or whomever. And then that professional can lead the conversationslash mediate the conversation. You're not gonna full out brawl with your spouse when I'm sitting there, right? Like you might whisper at each other, but you're not gonna like get into it. So I think that's a really helpful format. And I think also, too, second thought on that would be a great way to start talking about money is to not talk about money. And what I mean by that is start talking about your goals. Money's just a tool, right? Money is just a tool to get you what you want. So figuring out, hey, do we have alignment on what we want? Is private school something that's gonna be important? We'll talk about the money later, but is private school important? Right? Is joining a particular club, is that important? Is taking an international family vacation, is that important? And I think having a conversation about those things, right? Everything requires money. So you're talking about money, but you're not really talking about money. And so I think once you can get some alignment around the household goals, short, medium, long-term goals, then you can start to say, all right, well, if we're spending X, Y, and Z dining out each month, how is that getting us closer to the goals that we just talked about? And maybe one of your goals is we need to have a weekly date night. And if that's your goal, then dining out budget makes perfect sense. But if that's not something that's important and it's just kind of happening, it might be a great point in the conversation to say, hey, you know what, maybe we reallocate that toward our vacation fund because we just talked about how important it is to do that. So I think talking about what the money would be used for is a lot easier than talking about the money itself.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

And when those conversations happen around extended family and supporting parents and each other's parents, you know, there's so much other like emotion and and other things that go into that conversation. Do your clients tell you about what their plans are for helping their parents or other family? How does that typically work?

SPEAKER_04 32:57

When I develop a relationship with a client, I mean, we talk about all of this stuff. I mean, we even talk about their illegal drug budget. We talk about everything, right? Like we we have all the all the cards on the table because we're in a confidential environment. And sometimes giving tithing to the church is important. So that's budgeting. Sometimes supporting family back home is important and we have to weave that in. And what I often tell couples is that you're probably not going to align perfectly on the level of support that you want to provide for each other's extended family. So maybe that's an opportunity to start a little discretionary. You don't have to have all finances one big pot. In fact, most of my clients don't have their finances that way. And so maybe if each of you has a discretionary pot, that could be for shoes. That could be for supporting family. You get to choose.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

That's another thing that I think is very millennial is making this decision about how to approach finances in a marriage. Like I feel like most of us grew up with parents who just shared everything. And now we're trying to figure out what works best for us. Do you do you think that more millennials are sharing finances with their partners, or do you think more of them are separating?

SPEAKER_04 34:13

I would say that most people take a hybrid approach. I very rarely see the one big pot mentality, especially because a lot of millennial couples are dual-income households. And there's there's a lot more autonomy than in prior generations with regard to finances. Usually there's one big pot for shared expenses, household expenses, kid expenses. Obviously, retirement accounts are separate because they have to be through work or whatever. But I would say the vast majority of clients that I work with, they have their own bank accounts too.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Do you think that's the way to go?

SPEAKER_04 34:56

So I always tell people if what you're doing right now is working, just do that. Just do that. If it's not working, I can give you a hundred different examples of what other clients are doing and you can try those on for size. But if what you're doing is working or even sort of working, just sometimes people are like, oh, you know, I have my savings account. And, you know, we treat it as mutual, but do I need to go and add my spouse's name? No, that's an administrative task that you just don't need to be dealing with. Like if the mindset is that it's communal, the mindset is that it's communal.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

That's so great to hear, actually. Just even hearing just saying, like, don't add more to your list. And this is not like the list that you need to have or like the exact formula you need to have. Because I always think I'm sure there's something different I should be doing or could be doing. But like you said, if it's working, it's working. What does your household look like? Can you tell us more about the yeah?

SPEAKER_04 36:00

So when my husband and I started our relationship, we were both working as attorneys and we made roughly similar income. So we we came into the relationship as roughly 50-50 earners. And over the years, the dynamic financially has shifted such that I am the only earner in the household. And, you know, emotional uh work aside, right, from a financial planning perspective, it can it can really take a toll on a marriage if you don't talk about it, right? Because just because one person makes the money, does that mean that they have more control? Right? Uh just because one person makes the money, does that mean that they get to decide allowance for the other? Or does their vote count for more because they're the one making the money? Again, there's no right or wrong answer. I think there are some couples who are like, yeah, damn straight. Right. And other couples are like, no, you know, we we respect each other as equal partners. And whoever, you know, brings home the money, that's just their role. And the person who doesn't bring home the money, they're contributing in non-monetary ways. Or even in monetary ways. Like if you have a spouse who cares for children, there's there's a cost savings associated with that. If you have a spouse who does grocery shopping, you're not paying DoorDash. You know, like there's you can get really technical about it, but I think you have to understand that there will be different phases in life where you're both earning. One person's earning, the other person's earning, neither of you is earning, right? And I think that you have to decide and do some work, maybe not with a financial planner, maybe more of like a mental health professional, around how you want that dynamic to be. Because as a financial planner, I can design it however you want it, but you have to tell me how you want it.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

What about obviously we are in a really unstable job market right now? Is there anything you would suggest people do to layoff proof their finances?

SPEAKER_04 38:11

No, I mean, it's the emergency fund. Um, the standard wisdom on that is three months of living expenses. But I have clients who have been laid off from really high-paying tech jobs, that it takes them 18 months to find another job. And so that three months, that's worthless. I mean, it's nice, but am I gonna tell everyone, oh, keep 18 months worth of cash sitting in an account that's barely pacing with inflation, just to make sure that if you do get laid off and it does last 18 months, you're fine, right? Like it's tough. It's really, really tough. And I think I think we can put some mechanisms in place to make sure that you're not completely, you know, out on the street. But we can't we can't think like that because I think that scarcity mentality is very much different from prior generations. And I think we need to approach it with more of an abundance mentality, even though it's a little scary out there.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Yeah. If someone listening right now feels financially stressed in, you know, all directions, what are some practical steps they can take now to kind of feel more in control and getting on the right track?

SPEAKER_04 39:28

Yeah, that's a great question. I think one of the one of the first things that I would suggest would be just write down all the money that's coming in the door and all the money that's going out the door. And just write it down or put it in Excel or whatever. Just seeing your entire financial life in one spot mentally just helps you get your mind around, okay, this isn't that scary. It's all on one page. Okay, then what would be a next step would be okay, let's let's list all the places where I have money, list all the bank accounts, list all the old retirement accounts that might be floating out there with old employers, right? List all of the debts that you have. We owe money on the car, we owe money on the house, we owe this, that, right? Student loans, put it all there. So now you have one page that is cash flow in and out, one page that is a statement of net worth, essentially what you have and what you don't have, right? What you owe. And I think once you have that in front of you, you can start to look a little bit more objectively and less emotionally, because now you're just looking at numbers. And if you're pouring your heart out into all of these different pieces of the puzzle and then simultaneously trying to analyze it, it's gonna be so overwhelming. Get it all out there, put it on paper, take a step back, and then look at the numbers, right? Digest the numbers. And I think all the while, give yourself some grace to realize that it's not always gonna be like this. It's not always going to be this intense and this stressful, and you're not alone. So many of us, no matter how much money you're making, you never feel like you're making quite enough. Right? There's always, oh, I can make a little bit more, and that would make things a lot easier. Yeah, I I hear that from everybody.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Yeah, and I feel like once you get those systems up and running, it's probably so much less daunting.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

It is. Yeah. Nobody likes to start with a blank piece of paper. So if anything, Google around and get like, hey, budget template, or like have ChatGPT prep something for you. So you're not looking at a blank sheet of paper, because that can be really intimidating starting from scratch.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Well, millennials also got a lot of advice, like the reason you can't afford a house is because you're buying avocado toast and lattes every day. Do you think there's any truth at all to that, or do you think that's just really bad advice?

SPEAKER_04 42:00

So I think that that's very good advice if you are living paycheck to paycheck. But if you are making a healthy income and let's just say you're making half a million dollars as a household, really. If you're making $70,000, yeah, we we gotta be really conscious of that stuff because that can make or break, right? An extra $300 a month is going to be really impactful. $300 a month when you're netting $25,000 a month, get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Yeah. It is interesting though, because I think millennials have so many convenience expenses like the Uber Eats and the Instacart and the streaming services and all of that stuff that I probably feel like we should be talking about more than lattes and avocado toast. But that doesn't really seem to be treating yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

You just feel like it's fine. I'm just treating myself. I deserve this, I earn this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:02

Tell clients that, you know, once we get through the basics, right? We've got the budget, we've got the defensive planning pieces in place. We're, you know, we're working on some of the retirement offensive pieces. What we might weave in is a budget line item called a fun fund. And it is a pot of money that you add to every month, and that is how much you have to do stuff like that, right? So you can feel free and go wild knowing that you have, you know, $800 in there, right? Do your thing, right? Go crazy, spend the money because we're purposely budgeting for it. I think it starts to feel a little bit unmanageable when it's just a free throw. I think as long as we are intentional, and and if you have a spouse, get intentional about this. Like, hey, how much do we prioritize comfort and convenience? Are we a household? Who really prioritizes that, okay, fine. Uber Eats is consistent with our goals. Right back to what I was saying. Set your goals, right? If you're not a comfort and convenience person, then reprioritize your spending in other areas. But if you are, then you're spending in line with your goals, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Can I ask you some rapid fire questions? Yeah, let's do it. All right. So rapid fire, what is the biggest financial mistake millennials make? There are so many. I would say the biggest is spending too much on credit cards. One thing every family should have in place by age 40. Emergency fund. Is well, you kind of answered this one already, but is college saving overrated or essential? Overrated.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

Yeah, overrated.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

All right. And should millennials be worrying about long-term care insurance yet? No, no. One financial conversation everyone should have with their parents this year.

SPEAKER_04 45:05

I would love them to have a whole bunch of things. But if you if you're just to have one, I would I would start prodding on the legal planning side of things.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

And then this doesn't have to be rapid fire. It's kind of a big question, but are millennials doomed financially? Are we chopped?

SPEAKER_04 45:23

That's that's a tough one because there are so many things that are working against us, right? Taxes are going up. Social Security is not waiting for us in the same ways, right? We don't have pensions like prior generations did. Make ends meet, we need two earners typically in a household. Most of us are still working on our own student loans while also paying for daycare and all sorts of stuff. Are we doomed? No. But can we have our cake and eat it too? No. We have to we have to prioritize. We can't have everything. We can't have the big house and fully fund kids college and take European vacations every summer and retire at 55. I think prior generations could get away with some of that bullshit. But I think for us, um, if we can have a couple of those, I think that would be a huge win.

SPEAKER_03 46:18

And also fine in family planning, I feel like this doesn't get talked about when we talk about having however many kids are you do you want another kid? It's all about like, I don't feel done. I don't know. I always imagined a bigger family. And for us, we like nice things. We like traveling, we like to love our house. We love, you know, I love my bags. That's just actually did go into I felt selfish saying that, but like the lifestyle we want to live does not allow for another child. Does that go into your conversations?

SPEAKER_04 46:50

Absolutely. I mean, the middle child is becoming an extinct creature. You know, people are family planning with finances in mind, and especially the families that need to use assisted reproductive technology, they start in the home. Right? Because health insurance isn't covering everything. So let's just say baby comes into the world, you're negative $10,000. So should you start a 529 thing? No, no, right, no. So I think I think money for better or for worse has to be a part of those conversations.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah, I think we're just starting to talk about that. Like I've I'm seeing people say that a third child is like a Birken. Have you seen that conversation? I have it's like having three kids is like the ultimate status symbol.

SPEAKER_03 47:36

It's so true. I'm I don't know, nobody really talks about that. I just every time I'm having a conversation about, you know, people are always asking, like, oh, do you want another? Do you want well? No, because it's so expensive. And nobody just says no because it's expensive. I would love to have another child, but it's really expensive to have another child. Even from what, you know, you were talking about how hard it is day to day, but it's just it's it's another child is very expensive. I can't afford another child with my current lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

I think the two to three is like the prime millennial inflection point where we like to travel. And it's a lot easier to travel when you have two parents and two kids. We give our kids really individualized attention. It's harder to do that when you're outnumbered. And like Bonnie, like you mentioned, we we would have loved a third kid, but we are not super fertile. And we had, you know, we had to make that decision of okay, we'll try for a little while. And if it doesn't happen, we're not gonna go back to assisted reproduction like we did with our twins. So yeah, there's just a lot tied up in it. And I really, this is a little bit of a tangent, but I feel like we need to stop asking people if they're having another kid.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Yeah. Kids at all. Like just yeah, what?

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Just don't ask that.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Yeah. How do you know if you can afford another kid? I mean, I I have expensive taste and I am self-aware. But like, how do you know?

SPEAKER_04 49:02

I think for a lot of people, it's looking at the cost of childcare, right? Adding another kid to daycare, having the nanny stay on for an additional two years. Hey, does this mean now the cost of daycare is more than one parent's after tax income? Right? Like, that's the math that we usually start with.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Um we don't usually get beyond that. And then there's like a whole conversation of well, if I'm paying for if I've budgeted for child one and two education and whatever it is, I have to do the exact same for the for the next. I mean, there's so much of that that goes into I think especially moms. We're thinking about 30 years down the line, like, I need to give all of this to all of my children the exact same. And how will I show up for them in X, Y, and Z ways?

SPEAKER_04 49:53

Yeah. And I gotta tell you guys, I I've been sitting down with so many millennial couples who are intentionally not having children, more so than ever before. It's it's something that is usually lifestyle or financially related. So, you know, it's it's tough that you know, the metrics by which we have to make decisions comes back to money, right? They say money doesn't buy happiness. Well, m money buys choices, optionality, flexibility. Um, it's not the end all be all, but it does make things a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

Yeah. What would you say is your millennial sandwich survival tip? Survival tip.

SPEAKER_04 50:37

Focus on number one, focus on yourself. Because if you are secure financially in and of yourself, you can give to others, whether that's up or down, right? And and I think I saw on your social, like, you cannot pour from an empty cup. It's like, uh, right. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying make sure that you are financially secure. And then you have the decision. Do I want to help in this way? Do I want to help in that way? And maybe it's not a choice, maybe it's I must help, but at least at that point, you know you're not passing that down to kids that, hey, mom and dad are not financially secure. That that's a generational problem that continues extremely easily, unless you intentionally nip it in the butt. And it feels selfish. It feels really selfish, and it feels antithetical to the type of person that you want to be at times, but we have to do it. Again, says the self-sacrificial mom. Like, I'm like, oh, this is so icky. But when you look at the math and you and you look at the outcomes, that is that's what we have to do. We have to be secure ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

Amazing. Thank you, Bonnie. I feel like you have reframed a lot of this for me. I I wouldn't say I understand anything about money still. That's uh it's gonna be a separate adventure for me to learn things, but just saying focus on focus on your own situation. We don't, we don't, as moms and daughters, we do not hear that enough to focus on yourself first. And that's okay, and that's actually helping up and down. So important. So thank you.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 52:26

Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_04 52:28

So I can be reached over email, firstname.lastname, bonnie.mangold at nm.com. You can also find me on social. You can find me on my firm's website, amicusfp.com, amicus financial partners. Yeah, feel free to reach out. I'm I'm I'm happy to help. And you know, all initial conversations are complimentary. So we'll see if it makes sense to spend more time together before, you know, getting into anything formal.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Thank you so much. Yeah.