Is Marriage Supposed to be Hard? Partnership as Parents with Eli Weinstein

Having kids is going to change your relationship — that's inevitable. But that doesn't mean your partnership is doomed after you have kids. Eli Weinstein, LCSW therapist, host of The Dude Therapist and author of From I Do to We Do is here to break down our most pressing questions about partnership as parents.

Think...

• Is marriage supposed to feel hard?
• Will we be okay without date nights?
• Is it normal for my marriage to feel different now that we have kids?
• How do I address issues in my marriage when I just don't have the emotional capacity for another tough conversation?
• Am I terrible person for losing my patience with the people I love the most?
• Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce don't fight...is that #relationshipgoals?

Anita and Zara talk to Eli about the way marriage and partnership change for members of the sandwich generation. 

Chapters:

00:00 Understanding Relationship Dynamics
02:10 The Impact of Parenthood on Relationships
04:06 Millennials and Relationship Challenges
06:40 Navigating Change in Relationships
09:30 The Reality of Disconnection in Parenting
10:03 Navigating Resentment in Relationships
12:32 The Importance of Communication and Vulnerability
13:29 Utilizing Journals for Relationship Clarity
16:32 Daily Check-Ins: A Tool for Connection
20:55 Understanding the Challenges of Marriage
22:43 The Balance of Kindness and Patience
26:44 Managing External Stressors in Relationships
29:40 The Myth of Fairness in Partnerships
32:17 The Importance of Acknowledgment in Relationships
35:06 Navigating Social Media Comparisons
37:50 Understanding Relationship Dynamics and Communication
41:36 Addressing Resentment and Building Connection
45:06 Creative Ways to Date Your Partner
49:38 Coping with Grief and Caregiving in Relationships
52:13 Millennial Sandwich Generation Insights

Topics covered: Marriage after kids, marriage, communication, therapy, millennial parenting, social media and relationship expectations, dating your spouse

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Transcript

0:03

Welcome to the Millennial Sandwich, a space for real conversations about millennials in the middle, not just of our own lives, but also of a caregiving sandwich. I'm Dr. Anitha Chandra, a geriatrician and expert in elder care. And I'm Zara Hanowalt, a parenting journalist and expert in American motherhood. And even we don't have all the answers. Join us as we figure out life in the middle. Hi, everyone. We are here with Ellie Weinstein, therapist, a podcaster, and now an author. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself? Hey, thanks for having me on. I'm super excited to be here. Um I'm a therapist, a dad of two kids, through third one on the way. Um married for 10 years, and I have a podcast called The Dude Therapist because I couldn't think of a better name. Because what the hell is the Ellie Weinstein show? It's a little too egotistical because I, who the hell is Ellie Weinstein? Uh the dude, because I'm a dude who's a therapist. That's all it is. So it's like conversations with mental health professionals and experts. Wonderful honor to be in that community and the network. And I have a new book called From I Do to We Do, Navigating Marriage and Parenting Years. And it's been a uh work of love and effort and uh crying, lots of crying. I'm through this process of almost a year and a half to write this uh book that I feel very honored to be able to be in the space of an author and also to really help people and couples specifically who are struggling to find themselves, find their identity. And it's for the couples that look at each other and go, what the hell happened? Who are we? What are we doing here? How do we get back or how do we move forward to a place that we hope to be? Um, and it it really is a uh a crown I'm really excited to carry and a burden I'm ready to go for. And I'm just excited to be here to talk to you guys. So, what made you want to write your book? Was there something you were seeing with your clients that was like a theme you were seeing or something you noticed? For sure. Um I hate writing. I'll be honest. I hate writing. I can't say anymore that I can't write because I'm an author, so that's kind of weird to say. But um, I would have rather had a thriving TV show like Kelly Clarkson or Dr. Phil speaking to millions of people than write a blog post or a tweet. But um, through the podcast of being consistent, I had a guest on who was also publishing a book, and the publisher heard my silliness and ridiculousness and no BS style of therapy and went, we gotta, we gotta reach out to this guy and have a, you know, have him write a book. And uh, I was pitching a lot of different ideas when we're back and forth. And the topic of how to keep your relationship thriving while also dealing with the chaos of children is my life. I have two kids. And also, I work with couples every day or individuals within relationships, seeing that battle and the simple tools, tweaks that I do with them can make such a load of difference in their marriages and in their lives and for themselves. I wanted to write a book on fatherhood and mental health, and they said no, no one's no one's reading's reading a book like that. So interesting. Are are a lot of your clients um in therapy young parents? Would you say that's the I would say a lot of my clients now are between the ages of 28, 30 to 45, 50. Um, and and I have some men who have come who have said what used to work doesn't work anymore, or what never worked really isn't working now. And a lot of couples who are just in the state of either kits, right? One, two, three kids, and just struggling or have been disconnected or have lost touch with each other because kids kind of plop themselves in the middle and created that space because they didn't have the tools to get or the skills to get back or push through that struggle and that tension. Yeah, that's a lot of my clients. Have you noticed that millennials are having relationship or marriage issues, questions, concerns that are different than what maybe other generations are facing? I have no idea what a millennial generation would be considered. Exactly your age group, but yeah. So I think that's uh like 80 to what, 97? Is that the band? I think that their relationship issues are the the battle of what they were taught from their parents of what relationships should look like or the expectations of how things should be set, the roles that people play, and then how they have learned over the years how that might not be how they want to do it. And then dealing with two people who are battling with that, and one person might be okay with it, and the other person might not be okay with it. That's number one. Number two is also just the societal pressures of things that have changed in the world, of who does what and how we do it also is a big part of it. But I think that the issues have always existed. I think the millennial generation is just willing, hoping to, willing, trying to change or actually talk about it compared to other generations. Right. And we are seeing a lot more people go, and I think it's post-COVID, really. I think COVID really like threw everyone off, rightfully so, and really shined a light on, oh, we're actually not doing okay. And this put like a magnifying glass on it because we were literally stuck at home and couldn't, couldn't avoid anything. So I think that really kind of pushed people forward. But I think the Millennium generation is just a lot more open to saying, hey, I don't like this. This feels uncomfortable. I need to talk to someone, I gotta try to deal with it. I'm not just gonna put my head in the sand and stay in this just because I made a commitment or whatever religious or cultural pressures that I'm never gonna get divorced or I'm not gonna push back and speak up. Now it's like, you know what? I think I do need to speak up and talk about it because I don't want to be in this in this way. I want something to be better because I know it can with the right push, the right skills. So yeah. No one's ever asked me that yet. So I appreciate that. I love that. This seems to be such a universal experience when as soon as you have kids, it's like your marriage takes a backseat, unfortunately, for some of those years. How what actually happens to a marriage when both people are stretched in multiple directions? Yeah, and I agree with you. That's why I I think it was really interesting when I was when I was thinking about or pitching the book ideas to the publishing company. There's no other book like this. And I'm not saying that as like a I'm amazing. I'm surprised. There's literally a real no relationship book that talks about what it's like to be a parent, and there's no parenting book that talks about the relationship. Because the parenting book is usually from us to the children how to be a better parent for the kids or how to be better self so we can be there for the kids, right? And I can list 40 that are literally behind me, or a relationship book that's about how you deal with each other. Not in the state of parenting, not with the chaos or talking about the struggles. So this is something that I was just like smack in the face. I'm like, oh my gosh, this has to be talked about. And I see it so often, even in my marriage, like I'm not perfect. And it really is the things that change is that we we we have this thing in the middle of us that we never knew how to deal with. This is a skill that no one knows how to do. You do not wake up one day knowing how to be a parent. You have to learn. You learn, okay, this is how we're gonna deal with feeding time, and this is how we're like it's all learning, but no one ever talked to us or dealt with the idea that by the way, your marriage and relationship is gonna change and you're gonna have to relearn how to deal with each other. It's not something that you just wake up, you're not good at relationships. You don't wake up good yet, it's a practice. You have to, even without kids, you have to have a skill. It's communication skills, social skills, relationship skills. It's a skill that needs to be learned and practiced. So that's what it is. And what changes relearning too, because you're a relationship with this person, and you're both playing with this stress in different ways because you're obviously not the same person. Yeah. Kind of adapting to your partner's stress and how they might react. And I think that's the friction that we're like, oh, I haven't seen this side of my partner. And the question, and the question I always say is, are you willing to make that adjustment and pivot? Because that's the tension, right? The change will happen, the change is happening whether you like it or not. Sorry, it's happening. The kid is here, changes will happen. And yes, you're gonna be tired. Yes, you're gonna be overwhelmed. Yes, there's more responsibilities, and your life has to shift. That's inevitable. Sorry, it's inevitable. The question is, are you gonna be able to say to yourself and to your partner, are we willing to adjust our mindset, our expectation? Are we willing to pivot and learn new what this is here and now, like in the present? Are we willing to do that? And the tension and the struggle happens when we are fighting against that power where we don't let it in and accept it. We're like, no, we're gonna be like we were before. You know, our sex life has to be the same. The way we talk and how we hang out with each other, our date nights, my individual things. You're in, no, no, nothing's changing. Everything's changing. Yeah. You need to accept that. So what happens is then when that stuff, when that battle happens and we're not willing to accept that and pivot, okay, are we gonna communicate it? Are we talking about it? Are we just gonna like avoid it and shove it down and then explode in our faces a year later, six months later, because we're having a conversation of did you put the milk away and now we're gonna kill each other because it's more than just the milk? Right. So, so that's really what happens. And it's and I'm not gonna talk about the sleepless stuff. Like, that's obvious. Yes, you're not gonna sleep as much. Yes, it's hard. I talk about in the book, it is hard, but like that's not the that's not the relationship's problem, is not the lack of sleep. You know, people have insomnia and still have great relationships without kids. Yeah, I feel like in a lot of these parenting groups, somebody will say, like, I feel so disconnected from my partner. And some people who are later on in their parenting journey will say, Oh, that's just how it is for those years, and you'll get it, it's seasons and you find each other. You hate your husband for a few years. Is that inevitable? Is the disconnection part really inevitable? Because that does not seem sustainable or fun. Like it sounds like there are things that maybe it is a change, but that disconnect is can be avoided or I love that. You're gonna hate your husband. Get over it. Yes, I think I think it's inevitable, but I don't think it has to be long term. And it has to be an active choice to counteract and fight that natural tendency, that loneliness, that individual change, that priority shifting, we have to be very active. Resentment is very easy to creep in during this time, right? We start comparing. I'm doing more than you, you're doing nothing, you're doing less, I feel this, and you feel that, and you don't do this anymore. I don't, I do this. It's all this me-me-me. That's why the book is I do to we do. It's like this individual to a we. And when we become better teammates and we have better communication about it, and we're very honest without attacking each other for being honest and having a hard time and that adjustment period being a reality and being real with it. Saying, hey, here's what I'm going through. This is very difficult. I'm having a hard time with this. Let's do with this together. Because when I win, we win. When you win, we win. When I struggle, we are struggling. It's not this me and you against each other. And you will have conflict. That's not the problem. The problem is, okay, so what are you gonna do about it now? Are you gonna let it sit there? Are you just gonna let it sit there? Are you gonna work through it? Are you gonna hold on to it and just mutter in the corner how pissed off you are because you're sitting on the couch scrolling and I'm in the kitchen? Or I'm dealing with the kids and you have to go to work again? Or I'm, you know, when you're sick, I do a lot of things, but when I'm sick, I still have to be on. Like, am I gonna hold on to all that, or am I gonna let it out, talk to you about it with honesty and compassion and kindness, and also how is it gonna be received? How is the other person gonna deal with it with kindness and compassion and respect? Because we are a team, we have each other's backs. So will it happen? Yes. But guess what? That would happen without kids, also. Like you get annoyed at each other, but kids just kind of exacerbate everything and make it more intense because there's another life that you now have to worry about, and that is priority number one. And now where does everyone else fit in the rotation? And how does that make us feel? And how do we deal with it? I find the hard part is that in this life stage that we're in now, it's like kids and then maybe parents in in the list of priorities, and then yourself and and your relationship are are sort of just waiting to be tended to. But my first thought when you said, you know, you have to communicate is one that takes vulnerability on both sides. Also, it takes a lot of energy and effort to and time to have that conversation, which may or may not be a fight, even if it's not a fight, it is emotional energy in a resource that I feel like even if I wanted to talk to my husband about something that I'm feeling resentful for, even if I recognize that consciously. Okay, well, I have one hour before I go to bed to scroll my phone and prepare for tomorrow. So, do I want to start this? I'll just put it off. What do you say to that? Because I feel like a lot of people feel it. I love that question. So I have two things that I suggest. Number one, and this just because I'm suggesting it doesn't mean it works for every couple or every single person. So just take it with a grain of salt. It's nothing crazy, I promise. But if it works for you, great. I'm really a big proponent of something I call a couple's journal. For specifically this issue, you don't have time sometimes. You are overwhelmed. You can't match the schedule. You have literally an hour, because by the time you get your kids to bed, it's nine o'clock, and hopefully, luckily, you maybe be able to clean up and maybe have time for yourself to then maybe hopefully go to bed earlier than 11 and be a person the next morning. So a couple's journal is more of this thing where you write your frustrations, you write some things you are on mind that you want to talk about, or you just say, hey, I just want to clear the air. I want to let things, I don't want to hold on to this. That's up to you and your partner on how you discuss what the goal of the couple's journal is. And then all you do is put it on their side table and say, journal. It's not a threat, it's not something disgusting. It's just saying, hey, we don't have the time. Here's how we make the time. We can have this back and forth. And if there's a point where we actually need to talk in person, we've already had some of the stupidity out of the way or the letting things, the tensions out. And we have processed it individually so that when we actually have 30 minutes or 45 minutes talk about it, it's not all the garbage stuff. It's now the real deal, how I'm feeling about things and how we can repair and deal with it. That's number one. Right. And that has to work for every couple. Some people don't like journaling, that's fine. And by the way, even if it's just for one partner to process it on their own, for then to be a conversation with the other person out loud, that also is very helpful because at least you have a place to process it. Like anyway. Sometimes we're yeah, exactly. Sometimes we're brewing on things. And by the time we get to the conversation, it is 70 times worse than what it actually would have been if I would have processed it earlier. So if we had that couple's journal, we can write it down, you know, and you're muttering to yourself and you're all angry. You get it out, you process it, you think about it, you talk, and then you put it on, and they read it, and then you talk about it together out loud. But now all the intensity is out of your system. That's number one. Number two, I do this thing called the check-in. And a check-in is you're right, you might only have an hour of scrolling or whatever we're doing, or an hour and a half. Cut it off by 15 minutes. Okay. Or depending on if you're a morning person or a night person, some people like waking up early, some people like going to bed later, depending on the person, do you. But if you're gonna scroll anyways, which I'm doing too, we're all doing it, right? I think my wife's the only person that actually like puts her phone down and reads. I'm like, what is wrong with you? Um, stop being so healthy. Um I try to do that, but cut it off 15, 20 minutes earlier and do something I gotta call a check-in. So the check-in's three parts what's on tap for tomorrow, or if we're doing it the night before, or what's on tap for the day if we're doing it in the morning. What's on tap for tomorrow? That's a logistic conversation that helps everyone just be on the same page instead of in the morning going, What? I'm doing carpal? I told you three weeks ago, it's on my calendar. It just gets rid of all that stuff because who the hell knows what's happening yesterday or tomorrow? Our brains are busy, we can't figure it out. So it's a logistic, what's on tap for tomorrow? Who's doing carpal, who's doing dinner, who's taking this kid to what, who's doing this, what about our pair? Let's look at our schedules, let's figure it out. Okay. The second two questions I think are the more emotional piece. What do you need from me? Which is either emotionally, awareness, I'm gonna have a really rough day. I need kind of more patience or more sensitivity or compassion. Or what do you need from me that's not on the to-do list? An extra thing that it's on my head? Like, hey, if you have time. Not a logistic, it needs to get done because we have to get to the kids to school, but more of like, hey, if you have time, can you throw a load of laundry in? Or can you, you know, put the dishes away? Not that it's a must, but it's something just to be aware of. So it's either emotional piece or other logistical things. And then the piece is what do you need for yourself? I really would love to go to the gym tomorrow for like 45 minutes. That really, I really need to move my body. Or I really just want to have my coffee in peace in the morning. Can you grab the kids in the morning? And that is literally either you could do it for the week, you could do it day by day, you could do it three times a week. But it's the way to have this constant conversation to avoid some of the arguments or the buildup of resentment because I'm not getting my needs met. I'm creating a space to have a conversation where we both can have here's what I need. So it's what's on top for tomorrow, what do we need for me? What do I need for myself? And just do that. I do it with my wife every every night if we can, because then it just, there's no surprises. And and I say this a lot when it comes to communication. It's not about solving issues, it's about making awareness. If I'm aware that this is something you're struggling with or that you hope to have it or need it in your life, I now can just be a little more con 5% more cognizant of it. That now I go, yeah, my wife is struggling with this, my husband's struggling with this. Of course I want to help. I love them. If I say I love them and I care about them, I didn't know they wanted to go to the gym. I didn't know that they wanted to do that. I never, I don't know. I just didn't see it that way. My vantage point is not theirs. Now I know, yeah, how can I make that happen? Of course. Or if I can't make it happen tomorrow, but what about tomorrow? What about, you know, Friday? Right? Then it could be a conversation. Instead of it being like, hey, I want to go today. No, I can't do it today. And then you feel shut down. It's, hey, tomorrow, that time you want to go to the gym, I have a really important meeting, but can we make it happen earlier or later or the next day? That's really important that you get that for yourself. But it might not be able to happen tomorrow. So at least it opens the conversation a little more versus being rejected and shut down, like, no, it can't happen because it's last-minute conversation. And it's making it a regular thing and not sort of bringing something up which might make the other person defensive if it's not. Yeah, because it surprises them, it throws them off. They don't know what they're like, what and then they glitch. This is more of like a, I'm just giving you a heads up. Let's, you know, here's some time's a process. Can we make this happen? Even like something like, hey, on the weekend, can we go hang out as a family? Instead of like waking up Saturday morning, like, can we do something today? What? I was gonna watch football, you know, whatever. You know, like uh you didn't tell me and then then like literally people freak out and lose their minds. But it's like on Thursday or Wednesday, we talk about it. Hey, here's what I want to do on the weekend. Yeah, let's make that happen. Let's plan it. Or, oh, I didn't tell you I already made friends, made made plans with something. Could we do both? Well, yeah, for sure. Right? Just like having the conversation a little simpler and a little easier and more consistently. So it's not like surprise and heavy and intense all the time. Yeah. You know, I think a lot of people around our age grew up with this idea that marriage is going to be really hard, especially women, right? And now I think a lot of people, as we've approached partnership differently and we've gone into marriage, knowing our partners a little bit better. I talk to a lot of other millennial women who say, you know what, actually, I don't find this very hard. Or this is the one thing in my life, this is the one relationship in my life that doesn't feel like it demands a ton of me without me receiving anything in return. Do you think marriage should feel hard? Well, where are these people? That's amazing if they feel that way. I think marriage should not be hard, but it is challenging. And the difference I mean is like it shouldn't be that you are suffering and that you are under this weight of tension and frustration all the time. But it is a challenge to fit two people's lives together. It is a challenge to learn how another person works and to make it work for everyone. So it definitely should be a challenge. You know, like a thing I say often, like if you don't have arguments with your partner, like I'm really worried for you. I'm actually really concerned for you because arguments are when people are sharing their needs and talking and communicating and it doesn't work for everyone. But I'm glad you're talking about it. I'm not saying you should go out of your way and have arguments for, you know, the health of your marriage. But arguments and conflict aren't the problem here. That is a challenge. But if it is daily struggle, control, aggression, intensity where you are suffering and it is hard, that's not a good space for any relationship. With friends. But it should be a challenge. Yeah, it's an important distinction. It is something that it takes a lot of effort. It's daily work to be present, to be kind, to put yourself aside sometimes, to be there for the other person when you have your needs. So is dealing with kids, right? Like, I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night because they had a bad, bad dream, which happened last night. And you know what? Or like earlier in the week, I got up and my son was just crying for no reason. And I held him, and what did he do? Just peed all over me. And I'm like, what? Like I sat down to snuggle with him because he just was inconsolable. And all of a sudden I'm soaking wet. And I'm like, what is happening? He goes, sorry, daddy. I peed. I went, it's okay. Let's just you change. He didn't do it on purpose. Like, I don't want to do that. But to be kind in that moment, to be soft and loving, that's a challenge. Not hard. Yeah, I find, at least for myself, um, it's easier for me to be kinder and more give more grace to people who aren't my partner. And that makes me really sad because I love him most in the world. But it's sort of like that feeling like, well, he's gonna be there and he knows, and I can be myself with him, and he gets the worst of me. And it's not something I'm proud of, but I find if I were talking to someone else and they did the same thing that if my husband did, I would be like, you know, yelling at him. It's easier for me to see it from a different perspective and be nicer. And I I don't know if you see that a lot, or maybe that's just me. No, no, no, it's everyone, myself included. I think that we we have a tendency to feel the most comfortable with them. So we are our truest, fullest self without as much filter and worry of judgment. Not that we won't be judged or get attacked, you know, verbally or you know, be yelled at or get some you know defensiveness, but we feel the most comfortable that we can be our truest self. So it's very natural. They know us, they're here. Like, why would I if the same thing with our kids? Hopefully, we're a little more compassionate with our children than we are with our partner because they're children, but our partner is an adult. Or even our people's kids doing the exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like it's not our world. It's not your responsibility. It's not my responsibility. So it's very normal and very natural for us to fall into those tendencies of either snapping or yelling at our partners that we wouldn't yell at someone else or be more understanding. And that is the hard challenge, the work of trying to be better, trying to be a little bit calmer when we can. But it doesn't mean that it's going to be all the time. And it does happen where we snap at our parents when they do something. But when our someone else does it, we're like, oh, they're just being old people. You know, like they're just being, oh, but like my mom does it. And it's the worst, the worst, most annoying. It's the worst thing she could have ever said. Yeah. But someone else does it, and I'm like, I think so cute. I I'm a geriatrician. I see a lot of old people every day. And I will give them the like you can do whatever and say whatever and be the most clueless. And then my mom will do the exact same thing, and I will just be so annoyed. And yeah, that's one of those relationships where you can be fully yourself to a to a fault sometimes. Yeah. And you become a teenager around them sometimes, you know. You just the joke I make about this topic is like when my wife and I lived with my parents for about almost two years when we were saving for a house. My wife was a godsend. Like she was amazing with them. I wanted to kill them every day. Um, because like my mom would be like, hey, honey, don't forget. Tomorrow the garbage goes out. And I go, Mom, I'm 30 with two kids. I have my own life that I take care of before I moved in with you to save money for a house. I'm a responsible adult. And like, I lived here. I know what day, you know, garbage is. Don't forget. And I go, okay. And then I would walk away and go into like the part of the house and be like, oh my god. Like it was just maybe crazy. It's everyone. Yeah. My husband and I have had fights about that because he'll be like, she doesn't mean to be annoyed, you know, like she'll not take her side, but not being as annoyed with my mom as I am with my mom, but it's just that same thing. Like, it's not his mom. So Yeah. But isn't that interesting, by the way, that something that has nothing to do with you and your partner become an argument at each other. Yeah. Like something external happens. Like, how often are we sitting in the car and our kids are going, Could I have another snack? Are we there yet? And now me and my wife are yelling at each other because our kids are being annoyed. Like, we didn't do that to each other. They they're the problem. Or my mother-in-law says something, or father-in-law says something, and now I'm talking to my wife, and now it's an argument. Not about us, not how we're parenting, just they say something. And I go, Can you believe? Or my my wife said, like, yo, your mom or your dad. And I go, hey, and I start yelling or arguing. Like, it's so funny how that becomes something in between us. And now that we go at each other because of an external thing. Yeah. Or I I have found that I just don't have the same amount of patience for my parents because my patience is so drained by my kids, because I'm giving so much of my everything to my kids. And I don't have a lot left over for my parents. Yeah. I barely have enough for, you know, myself. Yeah. So it is just this taking a step back and like a self-reflection of like where your tank is of energy. Right. I think Brene Brown was like very big on this when she talked about your tank and the idea of, hey, I'm at 30% and you're at 10%. We'll do our best. Because nothing's 50-50. It's you give a hundred percent of what you have. And sometimes that's only 30%. Yeah. And that is good enough. So sometimes it's about having that huddle with your partner or with yourself where you go, hey, where are you at? You go, I got no sleep last night. I had a rough day at work. Like, I'm literally running at 5% right now. Okay, I'm at 20%. Let me take the lead. If I drip while you're recharging or whatever, I'll call, I'll tap you in. We'll have a backup. So it's just sometimes there's that little huddle to just be real and honest that I am, I'm really at a low right now. Now I'm not depressed. I'm not like, you know, nothing's wrong. It's just life is lifing and I'm having a hard day. So like I need you to know that. And not that you're better than me, or not that you're better than me, not that I'm better than you. Not this is not a game in comparison. It's not a competition. Tit for tat. It's not a competition. Yeah, it's not that I'm not, I'm not blaming you, I'm not putting you down. It's just I'm just stating a fact. I am running it low. What are you running at? It's like the people who argue over like who needs the charger more, right? Well, I'm at 5%. Well, I'm at I'm at 2%. I need it now. So like you plug in. And then when it gets to a better point, the other person plugs in. So that's all you're trying to do. But a lot of times when we voice that, it's like the argument over who's gonna get up to get the kids in the middle of the night. Right? I'm tired. No, I'm more tired. Why? Why are you arguing? If someone says, I'm really struggling, we have to respect that. It doesn't mean you're not, though. But if I go, well, so am I. Good for you. Why? What did you just accomplish? Why do you think we Because we wanna, we wanna, we wanna prove that we're like it, because we wanna either prove to the person that we're not lazy or that we are doing our best and we're working hard. It feels very weird for someone to go, I'm having such a rough day. I'm doing great. Ha ha. You suck. Or like, because you also are having a rough day. So we feel like we have to play this scorekeeping to keep everything equal, keep everything fair. Life isn't fair. Marriage is not fair. Raising kids is not fair. But if we try to keep everything, well, you do this and I do that, now it's equal, so it's fair. Ha ha, everything's everything's so fair. Then that's why we have to prove ourselves. We try to match. Well, I did the dishes and I did this. Well, I did that. Well, like that's not fair. You did two things and I only did one. Yeah, I think the difference between we were talking about millennial marriages versus marriages of previous generations. It was the the task delineation and the roles were a little bit different. And now we really are partners doing a lot of the same, you know, we're maybe we both work, maybe we both split up household tasks, maybe we're trying to trying to split the mental load, all of those things. And it feels like it needs to be equal. And I wonder if that creates a more of the tension because you feel like you should be doing the exact same amount at all times. Yeah. So the line I have in the book, and something that I say with my clients all the time, is like you cannot quantify quality. So one person doing three things could drain me differently than it drains you. Not good or bad. You're not better or I'm worse, or vice versa. Sometimes 30 things I can do easily, and for the other person, is a nightmare. The example that I'll just be honest with, my wife can deal with the kids all day without complaining at all. I don't know how. I think she's a witch. Like it's just amazing. That's how my husband. No, she's amazing. My wife's amazing. I'm not saying a witch in a bad way. She's like a magician, wizard, whatever. But like me, two hours, I'm done. By myself, I'm done. Like I just, it overstimulates me. I have AHD, it pushes my buttons in ways, and I love my kids. I'm not saying that they're doing anything wrong, but being with them by myself for two, three, four hours, it drains me differently than my wife. Not better or worse. She's better than me in this, but it doesn't mean that I'm lacking because of that. But we have to be cognizant of the quality of things, not the number. My wife can do seven things that drains her endlessly. And for me, I'm like, what's the problem? I could do that. That wouldn't bother me. It's the brain power, it's the energy and the effort that we give to things, and it's the respect that we have for the other person to go, you're struggling because you did seven things. I appreciate that you did those seven things and I didn't have to. So something I try to push clients and people when I'm talking about this stuff is the small thank you. So what we do in our household, and I and I do it with my clients, is that when we have those discussions of what to do, like who's doing what, I took the kids to school this morning, carpool. That was discussion. It's I'm doing it. I'm not, it's part of my responsibilities. I come home, my wife says, thanks so much for doing that. I really appreciate it. Why? Because I didn't have to, and you did it, and that means a lot to me. Not that so you didn't say the second part, but that's what it is. So now I feel seen and respected for what I did. Whether it's 70 things or one thing, I feel seen and respected for the effort and the quality of what I am adding to the family and what I am doing for the family. Whether it's putting away dishes, cleaning dishes, putting something away that's on the floor that I see. I pick it up, put it away. Hey, thanks for taking care of it. Change the laundry, changing a diaper. Like these are things that are happening. Someone has to do it. It might be you, it might be the other person. One person might be more cognizant and see those things more than you and do it more accessibly, be more aware of those things, and you're not. Thank you for doing that. It really means a lot, all the effort you're making, and not this, I have to prove you that I'm I'm doing enough or I'm okay, or the other person making me feel bad or putting me down that I'm not doing as much. It's this respect cycle that we're creating of I see all your efforts, no matter how many it is or how much it is, I am very happy you're doing something because I don't have to do that thing. Do you see a lot of people falling into the comparison trap based on what they see on social media and feeling like, oh, my husband's not doing this for me? And X, Y, and Z influencer's husband, like, I don't know, set up a room full of flowers for Valentine's Day. Yeah. Yeah. Like during COVID, uh, the thing I always see was like the uh those like red line, uh, the wire that made it look like the escape the room, you know, like, you know, things they were all trying to do for their kids. I'm like, I don't have time for that. Um yes, but not in the this person's husband does that. It's more of like self-doubt of being a good enough parent. So I don't hear often like, oh, that person got their wife flowers. Why don't you give flowers? Or they went to Bali, you know, we're going to Omaha for vacation. Like, come on, no offense, Omaha. I've never been there before. Right? Like, I don't see that as much. I think it's more like it becomes a self-attack. Like, why am I not enough? Why can't we do that? Why can't we have or experience or no? And that's why, which I find unhealthy, but nice to see at the same time. When we see influencers or these famous people be normal, we're surprised and also relieved at the same time. Like, that's why everyone loves like Sean Johnson and Andrew East. Like, because they're they seem normal. They probably have full-time help. They probably have assistance. I'm not saying that a negative. Good for them. But when they're out with their kids and they talk about the struggles of their kids having a tangent, we're like, oh, thank God. I thought it was just me. Because we feel we don't see any normalcy or comparison that is equal. We're like, they're just like a better than us and above us. Yeah, that's like I'm sure Kim Kardashian has arguments with her daughter. Right. We just don't see that because why would they show that on Instagram? And the opposite, when Travis Kelsey said that he and Taylor Swift have never fought in their relationship. That seems not good. It's not good. They don't have to argue over who's unloading the dishwasher, right? Like also, I don't think they spend as much time as normal couples spend time with each other because they're traveling around the world. Yes. But when they do spend time, it's like a honeymoon. It's exciting, it's fun, and they don't want to ruin it or mess it up because they literally have a weekend to spend because she's on tour for how God knows how long, making millions of dollars, billions of dollars. And they have a lot of support and money. They do. Yeah. To be able to take care of the little things that get in the way. She also probably has like a hidden album full of just rage songs about him that she's never heard. So probably. He loves Patrick Mahomes more than me, or something. But uh yeah, I think there's a lot of just it it creates this attack on self. That something's wrong with me that I'm not. Why can't I be a better mother when I see the get ready for the day and someone wakes up at 4:30, 5 o'clock, gets dressed in the most beautiful outfit, looks amazing. They go and they take care of all their kids' stuff, clean the house before 11 o'clock, get to the gym, and they're also cooking dinner. What the hell is wrong with me? I could barely get out of bed and get dressed for the gym, right? We do that a lot, but we have to realize, and I'm sure people know this from the listening. First of all, someone had to set the camera up. That's number one. Like this is not like they just wake up and everything's just magical. Number two, the house was cleaned before they cleaned it. So that's number two. And they're a different life than yours. You can't compare. It's literally apples to elephants. And it's not a bad thing that you are not doing that. And it's not a better or good thing that they're doing that either. It's called content. Literally this morning, no joke, I just restarted my TikTok, unfortunately, because my brain now feels that it needs to do that for like, you know, book launch and just like, who knows? More people, different avenue. Fine. Hate it. This whole morning when I was driving my kids to the carpool and on the way home, my brain was agonizing over what cute hooks and cool things I could do to create content. Why? Because my brain is just that's that's the world we live in. So stop worrying about the content people are putting out and try to be in the present of your life, which is hard. I have a hard time with that. In the context of marriage, I feel like I see I scroll and I see hooks that are like this one thing is a sign that your marriage is struggling. Like, what do you what do people think is a sign their marriage is struggling, but is actually normal? Arguments. Conflict. Like it does happen. You both are in your own worlds. What I say a lot is you're in your vantage point. You know, when you have a kid, what's the thing you do, right? You go on all fours and you look around when they start crawling to see where the problem areas are. I'm six foot two. I can't see that until I get down that level. I could barely see my son sometimes because I walk over him because he's so tiny and cute. He's a four-year-old little man, right? I walk over him, I go, oh shoot, sorry you were there. I didn't see you, Max. So sometimes we're just not on the same vantage point as people. So we're gonna get into arguments, we're gonna step on toes, we're gonna bump into each other without trying to. What is a real problem when it comes to marriage that shows there's a problem is when you do not talk and you are avoiding each other, and there is this massive space between the two of you. That's what hurts. Another one is when you have this built-up anger and resentment holding against someone where everything and anything they do, right, is a problem. I love when clients come to me and they go, Ellie, I can't even stand his freaking breathing. I want to slit his throat, right? That's a problem. Not this breathing and not that you want to slit his throat. Please don't do that. But the fact that that bugs you so much means there's so much crap building up that that is one of the things that you're just like, here we go again. He's chewing with his mouth open and he and he sneezed that way. My gosh, I want to kill him. Is that what potentials looks like? The little bothering you. Yeah, no, it's the little things that now are bothering you because it's all the other stuff that you don't even have access to anymore. Why the couple's journal is so important or letting out that steam? Because it lets it process that stuff that it doesn't build and compact. And now a little thing is the one thing that pushes it over the edge. Oh, you gotta be kidding me. He put the bottle there. I always tell him to put the bottle over there. Why would he do that? Bah! And now I rage on him or her, right? Depending on who's holding all that pain and resentment, it's because so much other stuff hasn't been let out. So it's just ready to burst, ready to explode. But if we have a better time of communicating more often or more consistently and letting that stuff out, that stuff doesn't bother us. We have a little more compassion, or we're able to be able to have um a benefit of the doubt to go, oh, I'm sure they didn't mean to do that on purpose. But if everything's negative and the glasses I'm wearing is you suck and you I can't stand you right now because of whatever pain I'm holding or frustration, anything and everything will set that off. Even the way he sleeps, the snoring, how they talk. You hear that laugh, oh my gosh. It's like being in a Seinfeld episode of every everything's a problem when it's really not. You just have no patience, you have no more in your tank to give that compassion because it's stuff it's stuffed up with all the other negativity in the world. So for somebody listening who is listening to this and thinking, oh, that's me. I guess I'm resentful of my partner, but I feel like it's too late. What's something that they can do now? Where would they? So it's never too late. It's never too late. You can't go back in the past and solve all the problems if you never dealt with it. To go back and go, by the way, three years ago when you did this, you're a piece of crap, and I hate you, and I'm really pissed off in you, and you need to apologize. That's never gonna solve anything because someone can't go back in the past. C.S. Lewis has a really great quote that you can't go back in the past and write your story, rewrite your story, but you can choose today on how you want it to be today and how you want it to end. So it's okay, right here, right now, what is an annoyance or a problem or a thing that I'm holding on to that's impacting today's world? Not the back, not the past, but today. And then just talk to them. Start talking, start communicating in small ways. Open up, start journaling, start being real, don't give up on it if you want it to change. But it's your choice on how you want to write the story together as a team. It's your choice on how you want it to end. So it's just very important that it's never too late to rewrite that story. It just takes a lot of effort and it takes a a really active choice to say, I'm gonna do this for me and for us. And you can. Just with the right skills, with the right tools, to make it a healthy possibility versus you just never doing anything about it because it's too difficult and it's not worth it anymore. I think everything we're talking about in the millennial sandwich and the sandwich generation is that we are pressed for time, resources, help. And when you think of like, okay, you need to we hear all this, you need to date your partner, you need to date your spouse, you need to spend time together and reconnect. But what if you don't have the ability to do that as much as you'd like to? Because I feel like there's so much pressure on date night when you say, Okay, I have we've we're paying for a sitter, so we have to have a really nice meal and we have to do an activity and we have to have sex and we have to do all of the things in these everything in one. Yeah. So Yeah. So I I I said this on a podcast called The Secret Life of Dads, and it got a little hate because it got clipped halfway. So I'll say what the thing. Really is. Date night's wonderful and the ideal. If you can, don't stop doing it. Like go. If you can't, I'm really big on dating in. And what that means is just finding small things that really connect you. Go back to the roots of what a date really is, which is two people connecting, having a nice time. Whether that means making dinner for your kids, them going to bed, and you choosing a night in a month where you make the food you actually want to eat. Whether it is watching your favorite movie as a kid from a childhood or when you were younger and really sitting with each other and talking about why it matters to you. Or have a book club, read a chapter together. I don't know. Or I don't know, my wife and I, we love games like board games. So like we play Rummy Cub or Monopoly Deal or other things, and she kicks my butt. But that's us once a month, if we can, to really just be ourselves. And all it takes is 20 to 30 minutes. It doesn't have to be this four or five hour hole to do. It could be 20 to 30 minutes where you really just sit and spend time with each other uninterrupted. And I I really don't want to be mean and sassy, but there's no excuses nowadays. There's so many things online. I just saw a pottery thing that you can get to your house that you can make pottery together, that it's quick, dry clay. There's art things you can do. There's uh board games, there's love things that you can read, ask each other questions once, you know, at a night. There's all these things that you can do that take five minutes to 25 or 30 minutes. It doesn't have to be sexy and awesome and this big mind-blowing experience. It just has to be intimate and real, and you have to do it. So don't stop dating. It might be different than what you did back in the day. It might not be as often. It might not be as consistent, but don't stop doing it. If you can't do date night for whatever reason, and the hate I got was like, oh, here's another male expert telling men not to try. Not what I'm saying. Try. But if date night is not in the cards, try a different way. Don't just stop dating just because you can't get date night in. Yeah. There were a couple things. I mean, uh, this is gonna sound super nerdy, but I like dog eared some stuff in your I love it. The tank check-in. That sounds similar to what you were saying, like a quick that's the same thing. It's like the hey, where are you at? What's your tank at? So it's just a real honest conversation of going like, what's the deal? How are you doing today? How are you feeling? I know you've had a long day, or I don't even know because I wasn't in your work. I don't see what happened. I don't know how many texts you got and what drama and what WhatsApp group or what parents said this, and you know, what the kids happening from school, whatever it is, like, where are you at right now? It's just a quick huddle. One, two, three, hey, here's how we do this. Okay, now I know where you're at. I have awareness, and now I can be a little kinder or a little more compassionate to your reality versus, well, yesterday you were like this, so it must be that today you're gonna be like this and things are gonna be, you know, as normal. No, no, no. Today is different, tomorrow's different, yesterday's different, every day is different. So let me just check in real quick. Where's your tank at? Do you do this with your kids too? I wonder, like in a different great question. Once in a while, but I don't say it like that. I go like, hey, how you doing right now? You seem really, and of course I say the wrong words. I say, you seem really tired. I'm not tired. I'm not saying you take a nap. I'm just you seem out of it. I'm fine. Okay, sorry, I didn't mean to ask you. But I do do that with my kids after like a long Sunday. My daughter now does, I don't know, dancing. And then because we're in Vegas and it's like now it's like 89 degrees, we go swimming some Sundays, and then a play date, and it's just a long day. And she's just like sitting there, like, I go, Hey, sweetie, you okay? How are you doing right now? And then it gives me like understanding that when she's snapping or sassy or upset, or even my son is out of it, then the baseline that I know because I'm there every day. It doesn't take a genius to see that something's off. But I don't know why. I'm what they probably don't either. Yeah. So like I also think that it's on the person itself who's struggling to also preempt that. So if I have a bad night's sleep, I come downstairs and I go, hey, honey, I'm really I'm really out of it right now. I'm not my best self. I'm really overwhelmed or stressed or I'm tired. I just want to let you know that if I am a little short, it's not personal. I'm not upset at you. If I am upset at you, I will tell you. So the check-in is is also for me to express too. It's not just on the one person to ask, it's also on the other person to express. To say, hey, I just want to let you let you in on how I'm doing today. I had a really rough day and my brain's not really functioning at 100%, or I'm kind of like, I need like 15 minutes to recover, or I just need, you know, a little time or understanding. I'm wondering if that's something that we could even do with, we're talking about partners, but even with our parents, I think if that's I mean, I don't think that my mom would be. I did it with my mom. I did it with my mom a couple days ago. I heard on the phone, I called her and I heard on the phone, she like made like a I said, hey, you okay? Where are you at? What's going on? She was just told me some things that were happening in the family. And I go, Oh, okay. Are you do you want to talk about it? Are you okay? She goes, No, I just it's a lot heavy. And I went, okay. Now I know that if I call her later or she doesn't answer, or she's a little snippy or a little off, it's not just because she's pissed off at me, and then I go into my own head of like, oh my gosh, what did I do wrong? And now I have facts. I'm not my anxiety or worries are not running the show. I now have facts from the source, from the person that I can rely on and trust versus me being in my own world thinking it must be something I did. Yeah. The person you're doing this with really has to be receptive to open to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I think that we all can anticipate that becoming a parent is going to change us and our relationships, but I don't think we have a lot of preparation for how it's going to change us and our relationships when we experience grief or we become a caretaker for a parent, or all of these things that people in the sandwich generation are experiencing that can fundamentally change you as a person and change, you know, your how you show up in your marriage or your partnership. Do you have any tips for that? Yeah, I think the tip I would say is that it really just takes a lot of patience for yourself. Like you know that you know the change is gonna happen. You know that it's gonna be difficult with that sandwich mentality of taking care of your parents or elders, and you're also taking care of kids. And it's just about being really honest with yourself of what you can handle. And then communicating that to your partner and be like, hey, okay, I need to deal with my parents today. Something's happening, and it's really gonna really, really drain me and overwhelm me. I need you to be on the kids today. I can't do not have I do not have the brain power to deal with that. Like I really need you. And like be really vulnerable and honest. Like, I really need you to step up. Not that you don't, but today's gonna be a long one. Like I have to move them into an an you know an elder facility. I have to deal with a doctor's appointment, and it's gonna be really, really tiring. I have to talk to the insurance company on behalf of them because they don't know how to, or they're overwhelmed, or I have to go teach them how to use their cell phone for the 80th time. It's just gonna really drain me. Can you please be on this today? I know that I I know this is not easy for you either, but I really need your help. Yeah. Just be real. It's been about two years since my dad died, and for about a year after that happened, I was not I did not feel like I was a good mother or partner. And we really haven't talked about it uh about that whole year. But if I if my partner wasn't there to sort of step in and be everything I couldn't be, I'm not really sure what would have happened. So it sounds like I need to go say thank you for yeah. Um none of us know what changes are gonna suddenly happen, right? And what we're what stresses we'll be under, whether it's work or family or whatever it is, but I guess it's impossible to adapt together if you're not being open about what you need. And that's the whole idea from I do to we do is the we mentality is teamwork of how to how to build that connection stronger and deeper that whatever happens outside, we will figure out how to handle it. Not that we know how to figure know how to do it, but we will figure it out because we have each other's backs and we're gonna work on it to make sure that we can handle that smarter, kinder, more sensitive, more respectful. But we will do it because we have each other's backs, and that's the pack that we have together. So we're gonna do it no matter what. What would you say is your millennial sandwich tip? Um, the tip for millennial sandwiches is don't listen to all the noise that is out there on social media. Actually talk to a professional. Actually ask the right people. And the idea of noise also is don't take crap from the pe the generation above you that makes you feel bad for trying to figure it out, changing what they used to do that doesn't work for you, and be confident that you are trying to do what works for you and your family. And that if that doesn't work for them, tough nogies. But if it works for you, embrace it. Be proud of it, make that change, make that effort so that the next generation going forward or the next that you can look back and be proud of it versus being ashamed that you didn't try because other people made you feel guilty for doing something different. Where can people find your book? Well, you can go to my website, LEWinsteinlcsw.com. You can find me on Instagram, Lie Weinstein underscore LCSW. The podcast is the dude therapist. Please reach out, DM, email, just ask your questions. I promise I don't bite. I nibble a little bit, but it's with love. It's a little sass with love. But please don't be afraid to ask your questions. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.