Undoing Generational Patterns Without Losing Your Parents With Dr. Mona Amin

One of the hallmarks of millennial parenting? Knowing so much (maybe...too much?) about raising kids, yet constantly feeling undermined by the people who raised you. 

Even the experts are experiencing this. See: Dr. Mona Amin, a pediatrician, content creator and podcaster who shares parenting advice with over 2 million followers across Instagram and TikTok, yet has stumbled through the complexities of maintaining intergenerational harmony in her own family.

In this episode, Dr. Mona speaks to Anita and Zara about:

• How to react when you hear your parents criticize your parenting
• Why boys are just as vulnerable as girls when it comes to body-shaming
• The importance of individualizing your approach to parenting each of your children
• Why parenting advice and content has become so extreme
• Her honest take on gentle parenting

It's an informative, relatable, and incredibly honest conversation about how millennial parents can maintain close — yet often imperfect — relationships with their parents...and undo some of the patterns that hurt them as children.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Dr. Mona Amin and her background
02:36 Parenting advice in the age of social media
03:29 The impact of information overload on parents
04:55 Balancing social media, family, and personal bandwidth
06:27 How being a pediatrician influences parenting
08:52 Perfectionism versus intentional parenting
10:32 The importance of understanding your child's unique needs
11:51 Navigating parenting advice and scripts
15:08 Discipline, boundaries, and family dynamics
19:38 Handling intergenerational trauma and boundaries
23:46 Dealing with societal comments and body positivity
28:33 Supporting children through societal and peer comments
31:11 Gender norms and societal expectations for boys and girls
34:08 Managing emotional reactions and communication styles
37:55 The ongoing nature of parent-child relationships across ages
38:44 Cultural Perspectives on Parenting
39:10 Shifts in Parenting Conversations
48:59 Navigating Parenting Styles
53:47 The Importance of Connection and Communication

Thanks for listening to The Millennial Sandwich! Don't forget to follow, subscribe and connect with us on social media 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome to the Millennial Sandwich, a space for real conversations about millennials in the middle, not just of our own minds, but also of a caregiving sandwich.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

I'm Dr. Anitha Chandra, a geriatrician and expert in elder care. And I'm Zara Hanowalt, a parenting journalist and expert in American motherhood. And even we don't have all the answers. Join us as we figure out life in the middle.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Hi, thank you for having me. All the things, yes, exactly what you said. So I am a general pediatrician by education. I'm also a lactation consultant, and I'm a mom of two. And I am a creator online. I don't like using the word influencer. And if you want to use the word influencer, you can say that I'm influencing education and confidence into parents. But I am a content creator, educator. You know, my goal on the platform, my goal in real life when I see my families and patients is to create more confidence in the parenting journey. And I think the biggest way to do that is by educating, by explaining the why, by making people feel less alone. And I have really enjoyed creating all the platforms I've created. You can literally find me anywhere Pete's Doc Talk is, which is all platforms, excluding X. I'm not on X, but pretty much any social media platform I'm there. And that's because I just want to reach families, caregivers, anyone who impacts a life of a child is my goal.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

Yeah, so I started in 2020.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

And so now we're recording this in 2026. Launched it when I was postpartum because what, you know, what better idea postpartum than to start something? And I was just like, oh, I really was on, you know, I was on Instagram. I loved Instagram, but I felt like I couldn't explain things and have that sort of longer form. And I love connecting, I love talking. And so the podcast felt like a natural next step. And so I launched it when my little boy was three months old, right before we hit the pandemic. And so grateful for this platform, and honestly, just so grateful to go on other people's shows like yourself, just because I love this medium.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

It's like so awesome.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Yeah, and a lot of the things that we we usually see snippets and clips of things on social media and they get sensationalized, and so much parenting advice that we see in those clips assume that parents have unlimited time, energy, support. But our audience, most of our audience, has young kids and aging parents at the same time. How does that reality change the way you think about what parents actually need?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yeah, and you kind of alluded to it in that we're very busy. And I think parents now are way busier than parents in past generations. And I've, you know, talked in detail with my mom about this. You know, my mom is in that aging generation. And I'm like, mom, when you look at us, like when you look at me, look at how, you know, peers are parenting, what do you say? What do you think? And she's like, I think you guys are really stressed out. And I was like, why? And she's like, I don't know, maybe you guys just need to like have more perspective. And I'm like, let's dive into this a little deeper. And I think it's really important to understand that I think the reason why parents are stressed out more is the fact that we have way too much information at our disposal. So I kind of think about, you know, the generations past that maybe had one or two parenting books. They use their community for guidance, right? They use maybe what they knew from their own experiences with their parents. And I think that's reasonable, but now we have so much information. And the beauty of that information is that you can undo things that didn't serve you, right? Just because your dad slapped you doesn't mean that you should slap your kid. So we're learning that we can undo things that didn't serve us. But on the flip side, what is happening is that a lot of my families and a lot of my consumers of information are taking in too much when our brains were not designed to take on so much information amongst all the other decision making we have to do. And so we've confused being informed with being prepared. Just because you're informed doesn't mean you know what to do. And I kind of say that we have to do a lot of pruning. We have to decide what makes sense. And especially if you are dealing with aging parents, if you are dealing with raising small children, your bandwidth is going to be even less there, right? You're gonna have to figure out, okay, I need to remove all these other things. I need to figure out what I need to do for my life. And the hard reality is I think too many people in our generation, because of social media and comparison, we're comparing our difficulties to everyone else's highlight reel, right? We think, well, I why can't I handle all of this when in reality everyone is handling something different? You have to look at your life. Are you taking care of an aging parent? Are you taking care of a parent that has dementia or a medical issue? And you have to be that rock for them. And then also having to go home and handle a tantrum. That in itself takes so much emotional energy that people don't realize that it's not just time, it's mental energy that we have. And so when I create content, I always think of how am I going to give information to someone who has so much on their plate? And so that becomes, let me explain the why. And let me just give you some tangible tips that work for the average parent, knowing that not everyone has time to kumbaya and sit with their kid to validate their feelings. Not everyone has time to prepare, you know, beautiful meals for their kid. Let's bring it back to just the balance of being a parent in our generation. And so that is something that's very important to me. That is something that I truly pride myself on because it's how I live my life to understand what am I good at, what is my situation right now, not anyone else's, and how can I approach not only myself, my family, my children in a much better light that way.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I love this question because I think it also is important to remind our listeners that I think I was a very unique type of pediatrician in that I went into pediatrics very open-minded, meaning I wasn't so pigeonholed into I must do it this way, I must do it this way. If I do it this way, I'm a terrible parent. And I do see a lot of my peers, pediatrician peers, who did have that. So when they became a parent, they were kind of conflicted, right? Whether it was breastfeeding choices, formula, how to approach sleep, the parenting things that they'll go to. So I think because I had a very wide lens of what it is to raise kids, being a pediatrician did help me as a mother. But when I compare these two things, when I compare did pediatrics make me a better mom, or did being a mom make me a better pediatrician, I would say it's the latter. I think that the fact that I am a mother has made me an even more compassionate pediatrician, a better listener, understanding of the different temperaments of a child. I do think that when I was a pediatrician before becoming a mom, I did sort of fall into that, okay, but you can do this because this is what the literature says. Maybe you do this. But as I became a mother and I have two very different temperament child children, I realize that you're gonna have, you're gonna need different strategies. Like you can have the same goal and same value set, but you cannot pigeonhole yourself into something because you need to be open-minded. You need to zoom out. And I think that is the biggest gift that being a mother of one child, but now two beautifully different souls that excel and aren't great at different things, has taught me so much about how I approach patients, how I discuss parenting advice. And I think it's just made me like an a more inclusive pediatrician and even more so a more inclusive content creator, an educator online.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

And you kind of touched on earlier that we, our generation is parenting very intentionally. We have more resources than any generation before us, which obviously has good and bad to it. Where does intentional parenting end and perfectionism begin?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

I can say this as someone who was very knee deep in perfectionism, right? Like I'm a physician and I say that because I don't think there's many physicians that are not perfectionists or people pleasers because we live, it's literally by design in our training that we have to be perfectionists to be able to get the grades, to be able to get into residency, get the jobs, all of that. The clearest line I found is that intentional parenting asks, what does my child need right now? Perfectionism asks, what will people think of how I'm handling this? What will people think of me? Right? Because you're so worried of like you being valued and you being perceived as someone who knows how to handle your child, knows how to control your child. And I hate that word. But intentional parenting is looking at that beautiful little face in front of you, those small, tiny hands, because they're still growing, and asking, what does my child need? So one is about your kid, and the other is about an audience that is really should not have any say unless they are your partner and you value them, hopefully you do, unless it's someone that's an influencer in your life, meaning someone that really matters to you. And if you're performing your parenting, your kid is gonna feel that, right? Kids are remarkably perceptive. They don't need the Pinterest perfect parent. They need someone who's actually in the room with them, mentally present. So judgment, perfectionism, anxiety, depression, people pleasing. What that does to us is that it takes us out of the moment with the child because we're so focused on what we should do versus what does my kid need right now? So I've said this before, kids really do not need perfection because perfection is societally created, right? We have created this sort of label of what a perfect parent should look like, but it's so individualized. Kids need a present parent that understands them, values them, and wants to work with that child to be the best parent they can for that individual. And one thing I always like to remind my community and whenever I go on podcasts is that every relationship is unique. And what I mean by that is my relationship with my son is very different than my husband's relationship with my son. My relationship with my daughter is very different than my husband's relationship with my daughter because it's two psychologies coming together. It's two individuals coming together. I have my own temperament, my husband has his own temperament. So being intentional is understanding who you are, who your child is, and recognizing that so that you can make parenting decisions, discipline decisions, limit-setting decisions, nurturing decisions that match them and not what everyone else is thinking you should do.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

I feel like it's so different than the way our parents' generation parented that you you kind of mentioned performing. I feel like a lot of us are performing our parenting for ourselves and for our parents. Like how we were parented obviously affects how we parent, but it's like I don't I sometimes feel like I'm doing things the opposite on purpose, just you know, out of something I didn't feel like I would ever do. You know, we all grow up saying, like, I would never do that, and making a point to to be like, see how I'm doing this differently. This is so much better and informed, and this is all the evidence we have. Do you think there's a lot of that with our generation?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yeah. And I think, you know, the the one thing that I see happening, and I I have been guilty of this, and I think it kind of relates to what you just said, is I know what how I want to parent my children. And I my husband does as well. We're on the same page on how we want to parent our children. And going back to all of this sort of scripting, also, as you said, I have I did the series on my social called Say This, Not That. And it is scripts, and I started doing it in a way of just kind of what we're saying, like how we can change our verbiage. And then I told my team, who helps me edit my videos, I'm like, hey, can you actually make sure that you put a huge disclaimer at the beginning that our goal here is to understand the value system underneath what I'm saying, not the actual script? Because what I was doing with this series is that I would say the say this, not that. Like I would do a version of what not to say and then what to say, and then I would freeze the frame and explain the why. Like, why am I saying it like this? And I now I'm reminding my audience, read the why more than anything else. Because what we need to remember more than scripts, and I I also don't like scripts, because what scripts do is that it can feel very unnatural if you're not used to saying that, right? Like I grew up in a house where it was a very authoritarian discipline, meaning it it was respect is one way, my way or the highway. If you don't listen, you get slapped across the face. That was my childhood. And I never got to find my voice. I never got to learn how to channel anger. I never learned all of those things. And so I like the scripts, but what the scripts can do is that that's very hard for me now as a mother to find that sort of nurturing, compassionate voice when all I heard growing up was slaps and yelling. And so it can be really hard to say a script. And so what I remind families more is think about the value. So the value that you're trying to raise your child with is I want my child to feel safe and I want my child to feel that they are able to come to me when something doesn't feel right. Because when you know that that's your value system, it's more likely that you're going to then say the words that you feel is natural to you, right? You're gonna be maybe more calm and grounded or work towards that. And what I found was happening in my relationship with my parents is because my dad is very much the authoritarian parent, I was finding that I knew my value system. I knew my value system was to be authoritative, is that sort of parenting style, right? Firm, loving, boundaries, compassionate, but also holding limits. And there was a situation when my son was three, where, and I actually wrote about this in like a newsletter on a podcast, and he was two or three years old, and he didn't want to eat the dinner that was provided for him. And what we do in those situations is we always provide a platter and we say, Hey, this is dinner. You can eat what's on the plate, or and that's done. We're done for dinner. He threw a meltdown in front of my father, and it was Christmas Eve, and we were sitting at that table, and my dad yelled at my son, and he's never yelled at my kid, even though he's yelled at me. And I was horrified. And he was like, sit down and eat your food. He's like, You both don't have any control over your child. And what I started to internalize at that moment is one, I was very angry, but then I started being a little afraid of my father. And in front of my dad, I would be more controlling with my son rather than what I knew was right for my family because I was feeling judged. But judgment is a huge problem, especially when we are in the sandwich generation of like, we have our kids, we want to undo the generational trauma, but then you're having them watch how you're approaching discipline that looks very different, even though I know from a development psychological standpoint what I'm doing is right. And then having to sort of perform, like you said, in front of him. And then I have to ask myself, I'm like, this is not how I want to parent my kid. Why am I yelling at him now? I never do this. I can be stern, but I'm not gonna yell at my Ryan. And it took a lot of understanding of going back to the values and remembering that that outside person, that in my father in that situation, is not the one parenting my kid. It also took, and I encourage listeners to remember this, setting very important boundaries with my father. So I had a conversation with him when everyone cooled off and I said, Dad, I know you parented very differently. Me and Gorob know what's best for Ryan. We know how we want to approach the situation. If you would like a relationship with our family, if you want a relationship and I want to have a relationship with you, you have to respect that we are doing things differently. If I ever need your help, if I ever need mom's help, I will ask for help. But we are we know what we're doing. And I also explain that part of being a parent is not always knowing what I'm doing. I may have to figure out a situation, but I want to be able to do that on my own with my husband versus running to mom and dad every second. And sometimes our parents' generation, they just want to fix without listening. And I think it's such a huge problem. And I I want to shout out my mother who has really, really changed. And wow, I'm getting emotional, but she was, she used to be that person of like, Mona, let me just tell you what to do. And through watching me mother, she now has been that person that's like, Mona, you tell me what you need. Do you want my advice? And I said, Mom, yeah, like I'm struggling. And she knows when I'm dealing with something with the kids, she's like, Mona, you do the best job. Like you are the best mom for those kids. And, you know, if you need help with the potty training or if you need like this is what we did for you, but it's gonna happen. Like it's very normal that they do that. And that matters so much. And I think so much of us have dealt with that. And so those are just some tips that I always bring up that you're not a punching bag. You don't just not hold boundaries. You can say, these are how, this is how we want to raise our kids and we value you, we admire you. Thank you for what you did for me. But I will reach out if I need your advice. And if they can't handle that, you create the relationship you feel makes sense to protect yourself and your immediate family.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

It's so hard to, like you said, we're all many of us are we're people pleasers. We it's so hard to not one, revert back to being 15 with your parents, even though you're a full like professional with your own kids. Can we clarify by boundaries? You're not necessarily saying we need to cut them out of our lives. There's a fine line, right? Like we want, we love our parents, we want them to be in our lives, in our kids' lives, and we're in charge. We're in charge of our family unit and raising our children and the relationship we have with them.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Exactly. And I I would love to just be transparent. Like my sister, my older sister, is estranged from our family. So she has no, she's gone no contact. And I don't personally agree with the reasoning behind that, but I love her and I wish her well. And I I just personally don't think the the crime fits the punishment, if you will. Like my parents did the best they can with the information they had, being immigrants to this country, doing what they did. You know, do I love that my dad slapped me across the face? Absolutely not. Has he taken accountability for it and changed? 1000%. And so that is what I'm talking about. I I've gone really deep into this sort of no contact. Why, when would that happen? And I'm not a therapist, but there are certain situations where someone may make that choice. I do believe, and my husband feels the same way, that our parents were not perfect. We we have to kind of understand that they, for many of us, like I think all three of us can agree that all of our parents immigrated to this country and they had very little and they did what they thought was needed to fit in in this country, make money, provide for their families. They didn't have the time and the resources to go to therapy and learn about their childhood trauma and their triggers. I do. And to me, I'm thankful in a way that I was raised with the work ethic I was raised with, with the, you know, the percept, like the emphasis on education because I got a good job. I was able to afford the time and create a business now that I can go to a therapist and undo all that baggage. But I can't blame my parent for doing what they did in my childhood. I now have to work on how that's going to impact my life and work on myself. What I can do, and I do encourage, is I did sit down with my father and told him how I felt when he slapped me. I told him that it really hurt me. I told him that it caused me a lot of anger issues in my life. And but I also told him that I forgive him. I wasn't looking for, oh Mona, like I'm so sorry, because that's not the point of forgiveness. Forgiveness is you realizing to let go and say, that was not my job. That was not my responsibility as a small defenseless child. And he nodded and he said, This. And but I took it as that's all I needed. I don't need this grand gesture. I wasn't looking for that. I just needed to get it off my chest. And when I talk about, you know, creating the boundaries, when I said to him, About the relationship. I did say, you know, at that point my sister was estranged. I said that, Dad, I love you so much. I know our relationship hasn't been perfect. And when you feel like you want to say something, can you just do me a favor and just walk upstairs? Can you just do me a favor and leave the room? That that is enough for me. Like, take that moment, take that pause. I know you can do it because I know you have opinions. We're all entitled to it. But let me be the parent in the room. And he did that. And I see that sometimes. Sometimes he doesn't like what's happening and he walks away. And I don't get upset by that because that's the boundaries that we set, right? Like I can't get upset that now he's walking away. And so understand that I don't think that we should just let our parents be essentially emotionally abusive if that's not what's feeling right to you, right? Like I know I've talked to peers whose parents are like saying harmful things, they're racist, they do all these things. And I don't think that's okay. My mother-in-law will say some racist things sometimes. And I'm like, mom, you are not allowed to say that in front of the kids. You can have your belief systems, but this is really important to us. And she's listened. And that's what I mean. Like if they're able to take your guidance and listen, great. If they're not, we sort of limit our encounters around them. We may not, we have to talk to our kids about what grandma means when she says that. Because I'm trying to raise my kids who are not racist, who love others, and who understand that they have feelings. They don't have to stop crying because someone's yelling at them, stop crying. And that's kind of that sort of nuance that I want to explain because I don't think we need to go no contact with our parents. I think there's a real benefit of having them around, but it also just depends on what was done as a child, right? Like I have to speak to that because I don't want people to think that they have to force themselves into relationships that are toxic. In a perfect world, everyone would have the same value set that we do, right? Like everyone would say the same thing that I want my child to have body confidence and understand that they can love their body. They cannot like their body sometimes. I want to be clear that it's okay. Part of body neutrality is understanding that sometimes you may not like your body, and it's okay to say that. Not that you have to change it, but if we always say you have to love, love, love, love your body, that actually can actually do more harm than good. Because sometimes, like postpartum, I didn't like my body. Like, let's be real, right? I think one of the biggest things here is when we create a secure foundation for our relationship with our kids. And what I mean by that is they know that we are their secure base, that we got their back, we are going to talk with them about society's perception of them. They're going to be able to talk to us about how someone or something made them feel. That is the foundation of anything else. So when grandma says, You got so skinny, you know, your your dad was the same way, so, so skinny. I've heard that, right?

SPEAKER_04 25:32

Or yeah, literally.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Like my my every my mother-in-law visited the other day and she said that to my son, like, oh, so skinny, like so skinny. And I'm like, at that point, I had a choice. I could say, Mom, don't say that, right? But it was such a passive comment. And I what I do is I just naturally weave in body positivity and body acceptance throughout the day. So I do that by modeling my own acceptance. You know, I work out. If they squeeze my squishy belly, I say, Yeah, that squishy belly was where you guys live for nine months each and how lucky I am that I got to have you now, right? Or like, look at my muscles and how strong I am. You have been running so fast. So you want to build into them what their body is capable of versus how it looks. So it doesn't have to be so scripted, right? We talked about that already. But think about when we build their body up and their body awareness. It's like it comes at the dinner table. If they don't finish a meal, you can say, hey, is your belly full? Yeah, mommy, my belly's full. Great job listening to your body. It's so important to listen to our body. If they're feeling tired after a long day, hey, you're feeling tired. What can we do if we're feeling tired? I think it's a good idea to go to bed early tonight. And because that way we can get rest. Having that interception around the body and what it does, in my opinion, is what also can build body acceptance, right? Because you have such a strong connection with your hunger cues, your sleepy cues, if you're feeling unwell and your parent is not dismissing it, they're not like babying you, like you don't need to go, oh, baby, you're so tired. Just very neutral. And that is also part of that equation. And the more you keep doing that, the more they're going to be able to block off that noise. That being said, as they get into school age, so let's say five plus, five years plus, they are going to get comments from other kids. They're going to get comments from peers that they value. The most important thing we can do is say, hey, when they come home. What's something someone said that was really kind to you today, right? Like just, or what did you do that was very kind? Is there something that wasn't kind that was said to you today? Or did you say anything unkind? Just to learn about what's happening. Yeah, you know, my friend told me that I'm like so skinny or, you know, I'm I'm a chubby chubby or whatever. First question is how did that make you feel? Right? Like for your school age child who can communicate. Well, I didn't mind. It's okay. You don't then need to go diving in, like, oh, sweetie, you should care how bad. You can say, thank you so much for telling me. You know, anytime someone says something and you have questions about it or you feel unsure how to feel, you always can talk to me, sweetie. Like keep those doors open because it's going to happen that someone's going to say something to them. But we being their secure base, the place that they can come to that knows that we're not going to dismiss them. We are going to walk them through the nasty things that are going to be said to them because we cannot protect our children because the world is imperfect.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

But what we can do is guide them through an imperfect world.

SPEAKER_03 28:38

Yeah, I do. Yeah. Amazing. You're right.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

I cannot tell you enough how much people say that it's easier to raise a boy than a girl. I think society, societally speaking, it's actually much easier to raise a girl in that boys still have this mentality of they can't cry, they can't have emotions. Why are they whining? Why are they crying? All of that stuff from an emotional standpoint. And then from the physical attribute standpoint, we get a lot more commentary about my boy being thin and skinny from family members than we ever do about my daughter. For my daughter, oh, she's so cute, so petite, like she's very, very petite. And I love it. But I also love my son who's tall and thin and lanky, just like his mom and dad, right? I mean, I'm 5'8, my husband's 6'3, and we are very, very lean. We're Gujarati lean people, right? And my son, my children are gonna follow. But I think it's such a double standard. Not only from that, I have also thoughts that when I think you guys may agree that when my son wants to play with dolls or, you know, um do nail polish with me or my nails, there's so much more commentary around that than my daughter who wants to roughhouse and play with dinosaurs and have garbage trucks. That to me really bothers me that the gender norms are so hypocritical that girls can be tomboys and society will accept it. And girls can have feelings and they'll accept it. Girls can be thin, but our poor boys have to be strong, thick, muscular. I mean, they're freaking like six-year-olds. And they also can't, they also be can't cry and they also can't play with feminine things. That to me really bothers me as a mother of a boy and a girl, and as someone who educates about parenting because that double standard is not fair for our boys. Like, my son loves doing nails with me. Like he'll watch me, and every time I do my press-ons, I'll give him one on his fingernail because he just loves it. And I and he goes down to show daddy, and daddy's like, cool, like I'm so happy. And he like shows me and he looks at it. He just thinks it's cool. He thinks it's it's fancy, and that's it. But there's so much societal stigma around it. Like it really bothers me that my kid can't just be a kid. He's not being anything more than just being a kid who loves taekwondo, karate, um, roughhousing, playing in the dirt, but he also loves nail polish and nails.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

It's okay. And again, a lot of this stigma is coming from their own grandparents. Yes, yes. I I wonder how much do kids actually absorb when they watch us react to comments or or just interacting with their grandparents. How much are they absorbing? Because we don't really think of that as parenting, but it is, right? They're seeing what we believe and how we react to people saying these things about the things they like or what they're doing or their bodies.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

I think it's so important when you have that moment where someone says something in front of your child. So let's use the example of the skinny situation. Like, I don't like when someone calls my son, like, oh, you got so skinny. And like, you it just makes me cringe. In that moment, right? You can decide if you want to discuss it later. But in that moment, if it's something that you know you've been dealing with, you first you need to pause, take a breath, because you don't want your child to see unhealthy communication styles, because that's also modeling, right? You want it, you want them to hear a healthy communication style. So, unhealthy communication style could be, Mom, how many times have I told you, don't say that in front of him? Unhealthy. Healthy can be, hey mom, remember when I chatted with you about how we talk about bodies? Please, if you can remember, we don't talk about bodies that way. Ryan is so strong, he's so, you know, so good at running, and it's just such an awesome thing to see. So the second, what I say is like it's reminding the care, the other caregiver or grandparent of the boundary, but then you're also lifting up the child in front of them, meaning you are talking about them in front of the other person in a positive way. Because when kids hear us talk positively about them and not to them, man, that does something for their psychology. You can even pretend to do it. Like last night, me and my husband, we knew Ryan was standing at the door, but he didn't see us. And I was talking to my husband, I'm like, gosh, do you know that Ryan is such a great kid? Like, he's doing so good at reading and he's so good at listening, and he helped me today. And then my husband's like, Yeah, he's the best boy. And we turned and we're like, Oh my god, Ryan, you're standing there. And his face was like, Oh, mommy, it's they want to hear us talk positively. And so when you find yourself in that situation, take the beat because you do not want to react, you want to respond, and then say, and if it's the first time saying that, you can say, Hey, mom, we actually love talking about what Ryan's body can do. And let me tell you what he did in Taekwondo the other day. He was able to break a board with his leg. He was able to do this. He's so fast at running. Again, notice what the body can do versus what it looks like. And you can do that in front of the grandparent. But what happens is because we have our own childhood trauma and triggers, our first thing is to defend and get into that mommy, daddy, defend mode where we're like, I told you a million times, you gotta drop that because they are watching how you communicate. And my gosh, kids are so good at looking at body language and communication tone and styles more so than we realize. And I think that's for me personally, that's the hardest thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Even knowing it, I'm like, I have to not be my 15-year-old reactive self. And it always comes out, and I can see because it's so different. It's like a different person. Like the way I speak to my kids and the way I speak to my parents is so different. I really I like that tip of turning it around and redirecting the conversation to something positive. Yeah. But it's hard. It's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

My husband and I, my husband had a lot of trauma growing up from his mother, and he we both went through EMDR therapy, which is um a form of therapy for trauma, PTSD. A lot of it was started because of our traumatic delivery with our with our kids. Like I had a very traumatic delivery, but we found that a lot of it came from childhood and all these things, and we uncovered so much. And it is it is really true. And part of that work is inner child work, right? Like that terminology can seem frou-fru, but it's really valuable that when we are talking to our parents, it's our 15-year-old, five-year-old self, seven-year-old self. Whenever you felt that you weren't heard by your parent screaming out to be seen. So for me, I think about when I was a school school-aged kid and I got disciplined by slapping or being thrown into dark rooms and crying my eyes out. I remember those moments, right? And now. And so when I'm fighting with my dad or fighting in that sort of fight or flight, like clause out, it is not 40-year-old Mona. It is 1000% like you said, 15-year-old, five-year-old, seven-year-old Mona trying to make my parent now understand who I am and what I need. And that means understanding and even talking to your child, your inner child, giving it a name, like calling it Moni or Little Moni, and saying, Moni, you are so safe. You are grown. You are a beautiful person with a family and you know what you want for your family. You have this. And like reminding your inner child that they're safe and that this person is not a threat anymore. Because it doesn't have to be people think trauma is like always physical or emotional. It can be things like a parent always making you like my mom used to always make me put on earrings. And I know it sounds silly, but I didn't always want to wear earrings. And so why is she forcing me? It sounds like such small things, but when you feel like you can't just be yourself and do what you want to do, you are going to feel so threatened by them when they're telling your daughter, hey, why aren't you wearing earrings? Put on earrings for her. Because you're like, remember when I was 15 and you always said this? So remember that you are now the adult. You have that control. And part of that is talking to your inner child. We do a lot of work where we journal to our inner child and remind ourselves that we are safe, that we are now in capacity that you are able to control. Because a lot of it feels like lack of control and a lack of being heard, you know? And so that's why we lash out. That's why our fight or flight gets activated, because we're just like, I want this adult, my parent, to know that I am visible, that I have words, that they should see me, but it comes out as frustration because we're screaming. We're screaming to be seen, but just know you are seen. Like your spouse can know it. That's all that matters. And that when you just collect yourself and communicate, oh my gosh, the power of what can happen with that person. Like I have changed my father's relationship with myself by healthier communication versus what I used to do is yelling at each other. We literally, in my adult life, would just start yelling, but that's not gonna go anywhere. And I said, I have to be the one to bring this energy down, similar to how you're parenting a child. My dad wasn't capable of this work, but now I'm gonna be the adult in the relationship. And and almost like you have to talk to a child. Think about your talking to your grown parent as a child in a non-you know, oh baby, but like a they need that guidance because they never got it.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

I see adult children of older adults all the time, and I notice that that never goes away, that dynamic never goes away. So it could be a hundred-year-old with an 80-year-old child, and they're still rever if they're stressed. Obviously, if if if I'm seeing them when their parent is sick, there's stress. That raw emotion from, like you said, wherever they are speaking from, whatever age they're speaking from, still there. It doesn't suddenly go away because you're aging. That same dynamic that is that comes out under pressure or stress is always there. It's not like you suddenly get older and you have this patience and maturity and communicating. So it's work that we have to do now.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

How long have you been practicing as a pediatrician?

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah, so I have been practicing now for 11 years. I know it feels like it feels like so long, and then a lot of parents still are like, you just look like you just graduated. I'm like, that's the I guess the Indian genes. Um, God bless. Totally. But yes, I've been practicing for 11 years, graduated residency in 2020, 2015, and then I got my IBCLC lactation consultant license in 2021. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

So that's really interesting. That I've been in the parenting space as a journalist for 11 years too. I'm curious, what are the biggest shifts that you've noticed in how people are talking and thinking about parenting in those 11 years?

SPEAKER_00 39:23

I think that there has just been a lot more black and white and kind of what we alluded to earlier that we've lost a lot of the script, no pun intended, because I know we were talking about scripts, on the middle ground, the nuance. And I really am trying to reclaim that in terms of understanding that you can have your values and all that, but it within those values, there are very different ways that we can approach a situation. And I kind of describe it like with a tantrum. You don't always have to sit there and validate with them for, you know, 20 minutes. A lot of the times you may redirect them or have something to do. Um, and I think there's a lot of shame that comes with these black and whites. I see that in the sleep space. I see that in the breastfeeding formula debate, I see that in the feeding debate. Like there's just so much, you must be this, I have to do this, I'm in this camp, you're in this camp, that really didn't exist definitely for when we were kids, and definitely didn't exist when I started doing this work. When I was in residency, people were just making their decisions, were you know going to their pediatrician. And I blame social media a lot for this because of the clickbaity sort of, this is what has to happen. If you don't do this, then your kid is going to be this. And that is just a huge detriment to children and a huge detriment to parental mental health, too.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

I've noticed even with the gentle parenting stuff, it was five years ago, it was like, you have to do it this way. And now the backlash against gentle parenting. Have you seen that?

SPEAKER_00 40:53

I'm laughing because I was so confused when that was becoming a thing. I like the concepts of it, but I always knew that, and I and I I'm actually writing a book, so it's okay to say this. My book is reclaiming the middle ground, like how we have gone, we flipped the script so much into deciding all these parenting styles. When in the end, authoritative parenting is the parenting style that, from generations and research, is what all of these styles are trying to do in different flavors. Okay. So it's all ice cream, it's just now gentle parenting is mint chocolate chip, positive parenting is cookies and cream. So you're deciding which flavor do you want. Now, my thing is I'm not surprised because I actually used some of the gentle parenting strategies with my son. And I realized that it backfired into enabling because of the validation, the emphasis on validation and parental presence more than just saying, okay, this is what we're doing. And I think that it has caused a lot of backlash and that we're seeing enabled behavior because parents are over-validating, over-explaining, over-offering choices when in reality, you also have to be the leader and stop it when it's becoming a snowball effect. So I'm not surprised. I think still people confuse gentle parenting with permissive parenting because when done right, it can be good. But even so, the right way of gentle parenting doesn't work for all children. I use the example because gentle parenting is very big on validation. Many kids do not need that validation. They do not want you to talk when they're having feelings. They want you to shut the fuck up, excuse my language. They want you to stop talking. And gentle parenting is like, oh, you gotta be there. Sometimes you got to give some space. Sometimes everyone just needs a moment. And that is still okay. And what's so interesting to me that actually kind of bothers me is all of the gentle parenting gurus that came out in the woodworks five years ago are now swinging back into the middle. And I and that kind of bothers me because I was always in the middle. And I'm just like, oh, now you guys are understanding that what you were saying doesn't apply to neurodiverse children, ADHD, autism, sensory-sensitive children. And now you all are reclaiming that. It does bother me, but at the same time, grateful and gratitude that they're recognizing that you have to be the middle ground. Uh, but I had felt that way for a long time, and I didn't want to knock it because I'm not gonna knock a style that people feel so strong to. But I think there was always limitations to it. But there really is never limitations to authoritative parenting because authoritative parenting is that umbrella. And then gentle parenting just kind of took a little flavor of it with the sort of validation, these sort of, you know, feelings, talks, and all of that. But sometimes it can be too much that you enable the child to do that behavior.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

It's just like us too. Like when when I'm upset, I do not want to be like, I'd like to leave me alone and stop talking. I don't want you to talk to me. Like it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Like, exactly. Like I think about like like the I call it the kumbaya moment in my book. Like, we do like you know when kumbaya is when you're like sitting around a campfire. Fire and you're like, like together. No, no, no. We don't need a kumbaya moment with our children. Validation really should look like, hey, I get that you want the TV on, but we're turning it off right now. That is it. You don't need like, baby, I get it, my goodness. If they're crying, you can say, I know you're upset. I can give you a hug if you need it, or take your time. Literally, that's what I do with both of my kids. And it works with two different temperaments, very different children. One of them has ADHD, one of them doesn't, because we tend to want to just be overly involved in their recovery. When in reality, sometimes they need to learn how to self-recover just a tad. And that doesn't mean that we're not giving them attachment and secure, you know, connection, but we can't rescue them forever. I think the problem with gentle parenting is that there is a lot of parental rescue, thinking that the child is completely unable. But we have to teach them like, what is the what is the next best thing? Like, what are we going to do next now? You're upset. I'm here for you. You can either go play with your toy, you can give me a big hug, but we are not going to sit here and talk for 30 minutes about how you're sad that we turned off the TV.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

It's also not always realistic in the moment. No, it is not.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

I mean, I uh to me, gentle parenting made sense in the pandemic because people were home all the time. And that's why people, I think, caught on, right? They're like, oh yeah, I have time, I'm here, I'm home. What else am I gonna do? In real parenting. And I was like, how are you doing that with multiple children when you have one kid and another kid? And also just in life, like, we're not, again, you are not teaching a child that their feelings are not valid by redirecting them to someone else. And I've done a reel on that. Like, I'm really big on redirecting. And people sometimes think that redirecting in the very staunch gentle parenting space, redirectioning is invalidation. No, I get that you're upset, sweetie. Why don't we go for a walk? Why don't we play with your toys over here? I'm not saying that they can't be upset. I'm just teaching them that when we are upset, let's go do something else. Right. Like I take my daughter out all the time when she's sad because it's now teaching her that if she's upset, walking, getting fresh air is an amazing coping skill. She will learn as she gets older that yeah, every time my parent was upset, we went for a really chill walk.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Or they screamed Jessica.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, you know, like the redirection. Like if it the re I love that trend because I don't mind it because the parent is staying calm and they're redirecting them. That's why I love it, right? Like it's not demeaning of the child. You're not teaching them that they can't have feelings. You're almost adding levity. And levity is what they need to get through feelings sometimes, right? You're yeah, you're not, you're not pushing down the feeling. You're like just saying, Jessica, and like you're still connected. And they're like, oh, mama. And it's funny. It's it's humor, humor, walking, laughing, connection is never a bad way to get them out of a meltdown.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

I saw a reel about how this one mom handled something that happened in a parking lot with her child, and like she's kind of giving advice on how to handle this type of thing. And all I could think was if I tried to do this, my other kid would run into oncoming traffic. Sometimes it's easy to do.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

You can't do that. Really, and I also would like to add that so much of the advice, and I try to be wary of this because I can't cater to everyone, so much of the advice, not only with siblings, but with anything, is that same thing. It's like my son was eight, because he has ADHD, he's a very busy brain body. Like at three years old, if I didn't have him on a leash, which I didn't, but I if I probably would have needed a leash, like one of those kid backpack leashes, if we were out, because his he would do zoomies all over a crowded place. We actually lost him almost at a Halloween festival because he's so fast at two and a half years old, and he like weaved in and out of kid humans, right? Adults. My daughter will sit there, mommy, whatever you need. That's temperament, right? We forget that there's so much nuance also in the temperament of a kid. And that's what I always like to remind. That's what I'm gonna be doing in my book, talking about understanding your child's temperament and how your strategy is going to be so unique based on your age of your child, but also just the vibe of your child. My daughter loves when I explain everything when she's melting down. Oh, it's because you don't like this. Yes, you know, it's very frustrating. I frustrating, mama, frustrating. My son, the moment I did that, screaming, yelling, all that, he's very much like me. And so I just love talking about this because having two children who are very different, and I had to use very different approach styles within my value system has just opened my eyes, you know, to like understanding this even more and pushing people to realize that their kid is not broken if they're trying gentle parenting and it's not working. Their kid is not broken if they've had to use a timeout in a healthy, appropriate way. Um, because sometimes kids need that if it's done correctly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

When your own children grow up, what do you hope they remember about how you raise them?

SPEAKER_00 48:59

I love this question. I hope they know that they can always come to me and my husband, no matter how big or small a problem is. My dream is to raise a kid who feels confident in themselves, and that goes into healthy body image, healthy relationship with food, healthy relationship with emotions, healthy relationship with sleep. All of that is what I'm trying to do. But I also know it's not going to be perfect. Because if we think that it's going to be perfect, we have really lost the idea here because we are raising a human. They have their own belief systems, they have their own interactions with other humans as they get older. But what I can create is a secure base that they can always know that no problem is big or small for them to come to us for, whether they are seven years old, whether my son's Lego broke and he needs help, whether they are 25 and they're dealing with a really difficult relationship, they can always come to us. And the first thing we're going to ask them is, do you need me to listen, or you do you need my advice? And that's what I hope they can always remember that mommy and daddy always had their back. Mommy and daddy always wanted them to try before we intervened, because that's really important for us. That we gave them the space to struggle before we actually helped them if they needed it. And that they are capable human beings that can fail, that can make mistakes, that their value is not tied to any of that, that their value is tied to the fact that they are our child and we will love them unconditionally.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

It's really beautiful because that's also how you described how your mom converses with you now based on learning about what you need.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

Yeah. And I I I, you know, I talked to my mom. I even thanked my dad, and I get a little teary-eyed because the other the last time I saw my dad, he visited us, him and my mom, and I sat down, I said, Dad, I just want to say thank you. And he's not the type to accept that kind of feeling, right? I'm like, I want to thank you because you've really changed. Like you've changed in a good way, in that when, you know, after that incident that happened at Christmas time, you have really shown me that you understand where I'm coming from. And I just want you to know that I love you. And I just think I'm so proud of what you've done and just know that I notice it. And he, in his very stoic mafia boss looking way, was like, I could tell that he really took it in. And I tell the same thing to my mom. Even though they're in their 60s and 70s, they're also capable of change, but we also have to communicate it in a very healthy way. But it matters, you know? And I think sometimes we just get so bogged down in the trauma or the triggers, but they want to have a relationship with us. They do. And I want to have a long relationship with my parents and my in-laws because I see the joy that my kids bring them, and vice versa. But you're right, it is a beautiful full circle moment, and I love them dearly. And even though I was hurt by them in some ways in my childhood, I'm not hurt by them now. And I that took a lot of therapy and that took a lot of communication with them. And I think that's such an important thing for us to talk about on a podcast like this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

And we always ask everybody, what would you say is your millennial sandwich survival tip for our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 52:05

I think it goes down to the fact if you're struggling in this moment, you're taking care of this aging parent, you're wondering what's going on, the fact that you're even asking the question of if you're doing enough, because I think that is a question that I think a lot of people are assuming. The fact that you are asking that question, please know that you are doing enough. I'd encourage you to really zoom out. Everything that you're doing is a long game. I I describe parenting as a long game. It's not the yelling that you did on a Friday that's going to damage them the rest of their life. It's not the fact that you made chicken nuggets when everyone's telling you to make a home-cooked meal. It's not the fact that you and your dad got into an argument. There's so much power in repair. There was so much power in healthy communication. Zoom out and remember that your well-being is the most important thing. You're like the I'm talking to all the moms and dads and caregivers out there. That is the most important thing. And then, of course, your child's well-being, your parents' well-being, and the connection you have with them. Don't forget when you're in this time of your life, that humans were meant to be connected species. We were meant to be with each other. We were meant to have relationships. And my belief is that so much of that is lost because of unhealthy communication. So much of that is lost with all of the insecurities we may carry. But if we can bring them that back, we can remind everyone that you're doing enough. Your kids love you, your parents love you. You don't owe anyone else an explanation except to yourself that you are aligned with your value system, and that is where you won't go astray. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mona. Yeah. Thank you. This was so nice. I loved having this conversation, and I think it's such an important one. And I just again love the perspective of us being in this millennial sandwich. We all carry baggage. And my my life's purpose is to make people realize that just because we carry baggage doesn't mean we can't change and doesn't mean we can't learn how to communicate better with ourselves, our spouses, our parents, and our children.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

Thank you for listening to the Millennial Sandwich. Don't forget to like, subscribe, give us a rating, and connect with us on social media.