The Hum
The Hum is a podcast hosted by Saul Levin about who controls the future, featuring interviews with people fighting the march of AI and data centers into every aspect of our lives.
The show is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions.
The Hum
They’ll Pave Paradise Just to Put Up a Data Center
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Emily Waldron is a social worker and farmer who harvests trees to become telephone poles in the Willamette Valley of Oregon. In our discussion, we explore the home she loves and the reasons she and her neighbors of all ages have banded together to organize tractor parades, town halls, and community meetings to protect the rich soils that fuel their way of life from Silicon Valley tech companies.
Message us on Instagram @thehumpod to get connected to organizers in your state or country.
Read Saul’s recent Op Ed on data center resistance with Astra Taylor in the Guardian.
Coverage of The Hum in El Diario, Spain’s biggest newspaper.
The Hum is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions.
Rohome Productions. You're listening to the Hum, a new podcast where we'll be sharing stories from folks across the U.S. who are fighting the march of AI and data centers into every aspect of our lives. I'm Saul Levin, your host. Last week, in our first ever episode, I interviewed Time correspondent Andrew Chow, who gave our listeners a fascinating overview of the issues at the nucleus of this show. Data centers, AI, the tech billionaires driving it, and the people everywhere fighting back. This week, we dig deeper to the roots of the movement in conversation with farmer and social worker Emily Waldron of the fertile Lamet Valley in Oregon. Emily operates a family farm in a peaceful rural place where she grows tall, straight trees to harvest as telephone poles. But that tranquility has been interrupted by the business plans of the richest men in the world. She and her neighbors have been organizing against data centers to protect the rich soils that drive their economy and way of life. So could you tell me a little bit about your work and social work and your family farm?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so as a social worker, I'm only practicing on call right now, doing like some program development because with the little kids it was easier. And as a social worker, you don't get paid a lot for childcare. Uh, so it saves money. But I, if I give you the alphabet, I'm an MN, I'm an MSW QMHP in a CSWA. Uh so doing mental health work and clinical work. I used to work especially with people trying to transition from houselessness and dealing with addictions and mental health.
SPEAKER_00And you mentioned to me that your family has been farming telephone poles for many years. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I live on a tree farm outside of North Plains in Portland. We're about 25 minutes from downtown Portland. Um, and we do selective logging for timber for mainland, it's always a lot of telephone poles or timber, a lot of fur, cedar, that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_00So fur and cedar is what becomes the telephone pole that the wires connected to your house are on. And you guys grow those trees. Yeah, I I always wondered where they came from, and now I know it's it's from Emily's yard/slash farm.
SPEAKER_01It's from Oregon. We have a lot of people that grow timber.
SPEAKER_00So tell me a little bit about how you got involved in the data center fight in the first place. I mean, one day you were doing social work, and then the next day you're doing social work and fighting a data center. What happened?
SPEAKER_01So, with where I live in North Plains, I got involved after the big fight in 2024. North Plains is a small town outside of Hillsboro, and we're at 3,600 residents right now, and they were going to do an expansion of 851 acres, which would more than double the size of the city, with all of that land being slated for industrial growth with a focus on data centers. So all of the wonderful organizers that I now work with started this fight. I mean, we were like I started volunteering to phone bank, and we were going door to door and phone banking with people and calling people because in Oregon we have the ability in our state constitution to force things to a referendum for a vote. So we were able to get enough signatures to force this to a vote in the town. And then it was a whole thing of like there was a court case. They tried to the governor tried to sign a law that said you couldn't make referendums about urban growth boundary expansions. And then we went to court over that saying, well, there's nothing that says in the constitution that you can't do that, you're allowed to do it. The judge decided that it it was able to stay on the ballot. Like it feels very dramatic like a Netflix special.
SPEAKER_00Um it sounds like it. So hold on. Could you, for folks who aren't from Oregon, could you say a little bit more about an urban growth boundary and what that is? I don't know if everyone would be familiar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So Oregon in the 1970s created our current land use system, which is where we have um, and it's meant to protect farms and wildlife. So we have urban growth boundary lines that a city can't expand past that line. And then we have land that is designated as urban reserves, rural reserves, and then there's just the rural farmlands and forest lands. So the way they set it up is that all these cities had an urban growth foundry, they could expand within it. And then there was land that was set aside later on as an a rural an urban reserve. So if they needed to expand their urban growth foundry to grow the city, they could expand into that urban reserve, but the rural reserves were meant to be untouched for at least 50 years and just content being farmland. For farmers, I think of like my neighbors who are growing produce or people like myself where we're growing trees. I can't just pick up and move a tree farm. It doesn't work. The trees take time to grow. They take, you know, I have ones at the bottom of the hill that I think have been growing for like 20 years that we're gonna get ready to cut here soon. Um and so you have to be able to plan for that. All of our farmers near us that grow wine grapes are in orchards, all that stuff. It takes planning. So they gave us these rural reserves to give farmers the like the knowledge and the comfort that their land wasn't going to be taken from them overnight. And so what was happening is in Hillsborough, across the highway from us, and in North Plains and other areas, they've completely burned through all of their urban reserves that was supposed to last them 50 years. And now they're trying to change legislation to take the rural reserves, even though we were told it was going to be kept as farmland for over 50 years.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so you're a farmer in Oregon, you live in a state where farmland was protected for decades on purpose so that crops can continue going, growing, uh, Oregon can continue to be an agricultural hub for the whole country and beyond. And now data centers are being proposed for development in the areas that were set aside for farmland. Is that right? Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly. And what makes farmland unique is that in the Willamette Valley, we have class, a lot of class one and class two soils, which make up less than 5% of all of the soil on Earth. Uh, our land is amazing. It's I could go in my backyard and just put a seed in the ground and it will grow without having to fertilize it or do any of this other stuff because our soil is so rich and all these different nutrients and microbiomes. But as soon as you pave over it and build on it, it's gone.
SPEAKER_00Could you tell me a little bit more about that? I mean, what are your neighbors growing? So you're growing trees. Uh, what are other people growing, you know, in the neighborhood or in the area?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, in the neighborhood, at the next three driveways down, they have a whole vineyard and we have a bunch of neighbors that are growing award-winning grapes for making wine. I have neighbors that are growing vegetables. I have ones doing fruit for like peaches and apples, pears. I have some that make amazing cider for hard cider. We have people around us that are have cattle and have dairies for I can go buy my milk from my neighbor or go get meat. We have uh the Halvatian creamery that's making amazing Swiss style cheeses. It's kind of fun living where we live in Oregon because it's like you could draw a little circle and just get all of your food from within a five-mile radius of your house for everything that you want, except for seafood, I think. We have people growing like wheat and soy and grass seed. Oregon is where over 90% of the world's grass seed comes from. So we're really big for seeds. We're also huge for what's it called? Brassica seeds, like broccoli and Brussels sprouts, because those seeds cross-pollinate with other things really well. And the way the Willamette Valley is shaped protects against that cross-pollination. So we'll grow the produce to grow the seeds that then goes to farms acros around the world. So that way farmers there can grow those products for people to eat.
SPEAKER_00That's that's an unbelievable, almost utopian picture of like small town life in America. And what you're saying is that a data center is being proposed on the land where these uh broccoli seeds and soy and uh apple cider are being grown. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01Yes. We had a big legislative win earlier this week because there was a bill proposed in our state senate that would have taken 1,700 acres of farmland and turned it all in into industrial use area. I think we got over 851 comments typed, let alone the comments that were given in person. 90% was against it, and we were able to get the senator who proposed that bill to withdraw that bill from the state legislature. So we're brought in a high right now.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. So they the senator withdrew their own bill because y'all had everyone and their mother and their cousin commenting and saying, we don't want this. We like being able to buy milk and seeds from our neighbors.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And yeah, we have like all the wetlands, we have all the rivers. We Oregon is the secret utopia, and I don't want it to get out because I like it being the utopia, but it's like there's so many things that interconnect when we talk about an issue here. It can't just be like only farmland or only water because it all overlaps in itself.
SPEAKER_00I'm blown away. So they're they're trying to build a series of data centers in your home that you describe as utopian with farmland. I mean, what's the most shocking crop that someone's growing in your area? I mean, what are things that you can grow on class one and two soils that are hard to grow elsewhere?
SPEAKER_01Uh, so the one that's probably the most surprising to people is that we have a saffron farm down the street. There's a woman who has greenhouse.
SPEAKER_00Yellow stuff?
SPEAKER_01Yes. She has uh greenhouses and she grows saffron. And I think her crocus harvest is coming up right soon, actually, because they it's all the stamen out of individual crocus flowers that is what is sold as saffron. I like you name it, someone's gonna be able to do that. You can buy local saffron to the Willamette Valley, you can get salmon from our rivers, you can get all of your eggs, your meat, your vegetables. It's it literally is all here. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00That's remarkable. Okay, tell me this. I mean, what is the picture right now of the data center proposals and the state of play? You mentioned that legislation was withdrawn, but you know, for someone who's listening in and hasn't been following the fight in the Willamette Valley, what's going on and and how would you describe the state of play?
SPEAKER_01It's I mean, there's a lot being proposed and there's a lot of people pushing back. Um in the west of Oregon and the Willamette Valley, we have more people able to organize to fight against it. So one of our bigger organizers, Nellie, just sent out an article a few days ago that I think it's for the whole state, east and west, in the next few on the table of projects that have been approved and are being developed, we have over 8,000 acres of data centers going in, which will put us as having more data centers in the state of Virginia. I know it's it sounds terrible to say it out loud. Like, oh man, it's a lot.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, you just described like a literal iconic picture of small town America that people think doesn't exist anymore. And now you're saying that a pile of data centers larger than that would be the biggest pile of any state in the country is catapulting towards that area. What's their problem? Why is this area being targeted for data center development?
SPEAKER_01So we have a few factors in Oregon. One is water, which we have we're in a drought for us, but we have more water than other places. And we have like the Columbia River that they're wanting to tap into other river systems. So there's the water. There's the fact that our current governor is incredibly data center AI friendly. Like last year she put up legislation incorporating AI into all of our schools, starting in preschool. But they've like tried up until now, data centers have been the biggest benefactor of like all of our um enterprise economic zones to have five years no property taxes. And now the governor is trying to extend that to 10 years of no property taxes. So there's water, there's the economics, and a governor who's friendly to it. Um, in Oregon on the coast, we have these transatlantic cables or trans-Pacific cables that go all the way across the bottom of the Pacific Ocean to get to Korea and Japan and China. So they're able to connect in with those and have like this high-speed network as opposed to having to go through different channels. We have some semiconductor processing, like Intel's located here, Tektronics is here, Way for Tech's another one. So we have some of that development. I say some because Intel laid off thousands of people this summer and has been moving their jobs all over the place. So it's kind of like all these little pieces that they would want. And there hasn't been a lot of restriction about data center development. So they could come in, and there's been there's no restriction in a lot of these areas about how tall that they can be, how much power they can use. There's a group, multiple groups that are in the middle of trying to fight right now a power cable from going in the bottom of the Columbia River to be able to bring more power from eastern Washington and Oregon with the dams to the Hillsborough area. So it can solely power data centers.
SPEAKER_00You just said a lot of things I didn't know about. I'm like, okay, so there's a cable going to Japan from Yao's neighborhood essentially to connect data centers to uh Japan and South Korea. We have cables proposed to go into the bottom of the river, and meanwhile, all these data centers coming in, they're gonna suck up water. So who's coming together to oppose this stuff? I mean, who are the people, who are the 851 commenters on the proposed legislation to benefit data centers? Who are the people uh who showed up at a at a town hall? Yeah, how would you describe sort of the crowd of of folks that's coming together on this?
SPEAKER_01It's a wide variety of people and it's beautiful. Um, we have so we have farmers. Um before I joined the organizing group, the group, some of the groups that I'm with, I love it. They organized a tractor drive-in, a tractor parade through town as part of a protest to have all the nearby farms driving their tractors down Main Street. And they were throwing candy too to make it a real parade.
SPEAKER_00Um so they're driving tractors to oppose data centers and throwing candy off the sides.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that was in 2024 that we did that. We'll see if it has to happen again.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's the threat. So if they bring more data centers, you guys are gonna bring more tractors and candy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I feel like it's easier to say who is in support of data centers because it's um like the and like these Atlantic grabs, or there's the Oregon Reelers Association, there's any like all these tech groups, and there's um, as I know, like we've all seen nationally, there's the some of the trades, some of the trades oppose, some of the trades are in support. It kind of depends on the person and if they see, like, you know, make hay while the sun shines, get as much money while we can versus longevity of projects. And I do know of like one or two companies that actually refuse to take on data center projects because they don't view it as a good long-term plan and they don't want their employees wrapped up in it if the market crashes. So, in opposition, we have all different kinds of farmers, like we have wine growers, we have the tribes in Oregon, and we have a precedent of the tribes actually carrying a lot of weight. A few years ago, a previous governor tried to sign a contract that would allow Nestle to bottle water from the Columbia River, and the tribes intervened in a lawsuit because that would impact their ability to fish the Columbia and the health of the fish, and that one in court. I don't know about the current administration, how it would go in court, but we have some court precedent on the tribes winning these fights when it comes to water. Um, so all of the tribes have been weighing in. Sorry, I'm trying to think of all the things I want to think of while I hear Rio playing in the background. Like it's like there's all the environmental groups, there's energy groups, because we we don't know how we're gonna supply energy to these things. So we have all these uh organizations that oppose that are meant to represent citizens when it comes to raising energy prices. Because in Oregon, the way it's divided up, any increase in our utility bill has to go through the state because we have kind of like a monopoly of who provides in different areas. You don't have a choice of who is providing your power. And so we have no infrastructure to provide this much power to these data centers. So there's groups that are lobbying about energy usage, there's people talking about the environment when it comes to impacting like birds and wildlife. There's people just not wanting data centers, and there's stuff about security, like and we have like a this whole gambit of like these really fancy uh winemakers that show up, and then we have like John Smith, who works at the mechanic shop down the street, who's also showing up and is on the same side. So it's like it's a very uh diverse economically and uh issue-wise, and just in all different categories as to what is making people say, I don't want this.
SPEAKER_00What do you think it is about the data centers that causes so many different groups and constituencies and class backgrounds and ages to be opposed in the Valley?
SPEAKER_01I mean, besides just that they suck.
SPEAKER_00I mean, a lot of things that suck move forward, and not everyone is out in the streets. I mean, there's something really mobilizing and sort of existential about this issue for people. What do you think that is?
SPEAKER_01Oregon has a unique culture as a state, and especially Western Oregon has a very unique culture about how we as a state like interact with our environment. When we've had wildfires come through, if you go through public comment that's happened after the fires have happened, and people are talking about the trauma of that, something that keeps coming up is like because we're Oregon's not a religious state, we're not like Alabama where we have churches on every corner, type of a thing. And for people with their mental health, their physical health, their spiritual health, we are always like we love being outside. So it's like a huge thing of everyone just wanting to be outside to be hiking to be outdoors. We have so we have like that part of our culture. We have a state culture that everyone, if they can afford it, likes to get things as local as possible. So like from small businesses or your food from nearby your house. Um, if I say like see, do you get a CSA to someone? That's super common for people to do that because it's like a like a state value to have that almost of like what can we do that's local, what can we do that's environmental, what can we do that is uh like amongst us and not having to depend on elsewhere, if that makes sense. And a lot of people that have moved here have also from other states and other places have moved here, have moved here because of either the cost of living or because of the culture of Oregon. So Oregon's biggest growth isn't children being born here, it's people moving here. That's the way we mainly grow, is from transplants. And so you have people that see the culture of Oregon and they opt into living in that culture, and then they also want to be a part of protecting it and in it.
SPEAKER_00It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful mosaic that you're painting. Could you tell me a little bit more about tactics? I mean, you mentioned farmers leading a parade on tractors. Um, you all organized a big town hall. What are some of the other things, strategies that you all have been using that has made your push energizing and effective?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I think it helps that we're there's such a mosaic of people that have now started working together and building coalitions. So, you know, we have some groups that are meeting, like I have a meeting, a bi-weekly one now, where it's like attorneys from all these different environmental groups that are talking policy and looking at it, but it's not just one organization or we have a group that's that is actually organized to help lead us by the energy citizens utility board group. And so having them like help to lead conversations, but then people can just kind of plug in and if they are interested, they can go. And I will say it does help living near Portland because I'm sure people see on the news Portland's got an attitude of protest. We're we're a problem child, I think a lot of the news calls us because we're we're out about ice, we're out about Wall Street, we're out about like the environment, we're out about everything. But it's yeah, it's like we have there are people that are going down to Salem all the time, uh, which is our state capital, to testify in person. We have people that are organizing webinars and talks and videos online or podcasts about things. We have people that are going on the radio, we have people that are doing social media, people that are just going and talking to their neighbors. Um, so in North Plains, we started a group at Strong Towns chapter in North Plains, which has gotten more neighbor involvement and community building involvement that I think helps. Um, but I think it's a struggle for us and everywhere of getting people to transition from like, I'm mad about this and I'm I'm gonna like hit like on Facebook to I'm going to show up or go online and write a piece of testimony that I submit.
SPEAKER_00A lot of folks are just getting into data centers. Fights right now. I mean, they're spreading in every single state. Essentially, in some states, there's dozens or even hundreds that are in development or being built. And people of all backgrounds are fighting back. What do you say to people who say, Emily, you all have been doing this for two years? You guys are like the veterans of fighting hyperscale or AI data centers. What's your advice to someone who's getting involved in a fight and is worried about what a data center might do to their community?
SPEAKER_01This is again where I feel like I'm fortunate because I the some of the people that I'm organizing with and learning from are people who were part of that original fight back in the 70s and like have knowledge of doing that original land use fight. But I think a lot of it is just there's fighting through the imposter syndrome. I get it all the time of like I'm always like I have toddlers that are two and four that come to meetings with me because that's just what life is now. But realizing like you're still you still have a legitimate voice in a legitimate argument. A lot of it also is endurance. My co-organizer Lynn and I were just talking about this of it's not it's a marathon and not a sprint. So it's like, okay, we've we won one battle, but now we have all these other things that we want to do on the offensive and not the defensive that are the next chapters of this marathon to just keep persevering and pushing through. It is also interesting if you get out and talk to people, the fact that the data center issue isn't just one group, it's not just one political party or economic class. It's really varied about who's upset and interested. So it's kind of like the wider net you can throw to talk to people, the more likely you are to get more movement and more volunteers and more people listening to you.
SPEAKER_00No, that is that is beautiful. So, Emily, tell me about your why. Of course, you shared about you know the challenges of data centers, uh, how so many people are so frustrated by them. But something about this caused you to spend so much time on it that you're carrying your toddlers to city council meetings, you're cutting up fruit for them while you're on calls. It's it's very inspiring. But why are you doing this work? What brought you into such a high degree?
SPEAKER_01It wasn't intentional in the beginning. Um, I had done when actually when I was in college some community organizing work with farm workers uh during grad school. I guess I've been like a busybody, like I've all I've been that kid where I'm always like, oh, we should fight about this thing. Or like in high school, I had a petition for us to be allowed to have graduation outside as opposed to inside where it was so hot and we had no AC. So I've all like that's always just kind of been like a part of my personality. But with becoming a parent and like student loans to pay off and all these different things, it was like I'll get to it one day, I'll get to it one day. I don't have time right now. And then North Plains started having the issue that we were advocating against, and I was getting invested in that because I actually am the third generation of my family to live here. It's always kind of fun being like I'm the third generation raising the fourth in this house. And I have always loved like being in the like my grandparents' house was like we're in the middle of the woods, and there's a creek with a waterfall, and there's you know, a herd of elk that beds down in the meadow. Again, like a storybook. Uh, and I love like all the farms and all the things around us, but it's I know enough and have been around enough to know that it is very unusual and it is like this little jewel that has to be protected. And I want to protect it for myself, but also as my kids grow up, like I'd love if one of them wanted to also live in this house and live out here and be in this little gem of a place to be. And my, you know, if they have kids, my grandkids are it passing forward and passing down, and also that being something that everyone can have, not just because your family happens to have bought land that they turned into a tree farm in the 1950s. Like, you know what I mean? Like everyone should have this. And so I started getting involved because the one of the farmers who grows my vegetables, his name is Aaron. He's very uh active and involved in the fight against data centers. And so he was sending out things, and I was like, okay, like I can make a phone call or I could do like some foam bake volunteering. And then my tipping point to do more came because in our town, after the referendum and the expansion failed, the previous mayor and city council formed a relook committee, which was meant to relook at the growth and how it was going to happen. It turned out to just be them trying to push through the same thing, but a little bit smaller. But I had hoped in the beginning that they were really going to be open to different opinions. And some neighbors and I were discussing the problem and what was happening. And I was kind of laying out if I was in charge of everything and I could manipulate it, like what my plan would be like for the town that we live in, and how it almost feels like all of these people in charge, they don't have any creativity. So they're like, oh, we need to grow economically. Well, here's the laziest thing that I can do to get money, so we're just gonna do it without thinking of like prosperity also means quality of life. Prosperity also means everyone having fresh air and clean water. Like it's not about money in a bank account. Prosperity can look different, and what does that mean? So I really like I blame my neighbors and I love them. They encouraged me to apply to be on this relook committee as the rural representative, and I was accepted onto it to be the rural representative. And then I don't know, it just kind of started snowballing from there of like I would go to meetings. I brought my children to some of them because my spouse was gone for work trips, and now there's a rule in the city that you can't bring children to meetings because my children were coming to meetings. But I just started moving from there of like, okay, well, the relook didn't work. And then, oh, hey, you know, my my neighbor Linda is starting the strong towns group. Like, let's go that direction and get involved because we can talk about data centers, but we also can talk about an alternative economic vision. Because for me, I think those things have to kind of go hand in hand because the excuse for a lot of data centers that's being given to us is about economics. That's always the excuse. It's like, oh, they're gonna bring so much money, they're gonna bring this, they're gonna bring that. It's not true, and we can say it's not true, but then we have to give people this alternative idea to rally behind. And so that's what I love with the group that I'm working with in Strong Tones, is that we're fighting the data centers, but we also are giving an alternative of what we could be and what we could do. So it doesn't just feel like you're saying no, but it feels like you're saying yes to something better.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, Emily. Emily Waldron is a community organizer, a mom, a social worker, and a farmer who grows trees for telephone poles in the Willamette Valley in Oregon, who's fighting data centers to protect her family home of three generations.
SPEAKER_01No, thank you for having me, Saul. It was great to get to share just a little bit about why why we're in such a big fight here in Oregon.
SPEAKER_00That was my conversation with social worker and farmer Emily Waldron. You've been listening to The Hum. We are publishing new episodes weekly, so if you like what you heard, please subscribe to the show and tell everyone in your family group chat. Our next episode is about the impact of data center fights on political races in Michigan. Message us on Instagram at TheHumPod to get connected to organizers in your state or country. The Hum is produced in partnership with Rohome Productions. Rohome's creative director is Alex Lewis. Their executive producer is John Myers. The Hum's video producer is Adil Trihunt, and we partner with the Center for Nonviolent Conflict Research. I'm Saul Levin, your host and banjo journeyman. Thanks for listening and see you next Tuesday.
