The Hum
The Hum is a podcast hosted by Saul Levin about who controls the future, featuring interviews with people fighting the march of AI and data centers into every aspect of our lives.
The show is created in partnership with Rowhome Productions.
The Hum
“Everybody is blind to partisan lines:” Indiana’s unifying fight against data centers
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Facing a tidal wave of AI data center development and complex corporate takeover in Indiana, residents in all corners of the state have come together to notch stunning victories against big tech. Kerwin Olson and Ben Inskeep of the Indiana Citizen Action Coalition discuss their work with neighbors in dozens of counties to stop outside companies from gobbling up energy, water, and land.
Message us on Instagram @thehumpod to get connected to organizers in your state or country.
Learn more about Indiana CAC and their team’s work at their data center webpage or by following them on Instagram.
Read Saul’s recent Op Ed on data center resistance with Astra Taylor in the Guardian.
Coverage of The Hum in El Diario, Spain’s biggest newspaper and a story about data center fights in Harper’s Magazine.
The Hum is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions.
Hey, Rohome Productions. You're listening to The Hum, a new podcast where we are sharing stories from people across the U.S. who are fighting the march of AI and data centers into every aspect of our lives. I'm Saul Levin, your host. Last week, I had remarkable conversations with Ash Nicole Lamont with the Indigenous Advocacy Group Honor the Earth and Reverend Chabon Kernel of the Seminole Nations Tribal Council in Oklahoma. Their work led to the unanimous passage of a permanent ban on AI data centers on Seminole Land. Their insights were refreshing and pathbreaking. I highly recommend making time for that conversation. This week, I'm joined by Kerwin Olson and Ben Inskeep of the Citizens Action Coalition of Indiana. Kerwin and Ben have been crucial leaders in an extraordinary show of resistance in Deep Red Indiana, where local community pushback has stopped at least 15 AI data center project proposals. They'll talk about new and surprising political alliances forming, fights with private equity giants, and their breakneck sprint to protect the place they call home. Welcome to the program, guys. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for having us. Appreciate it. Thanks for having us. Let's start with you, Kerwin. I mean, what what's going on in Indiana? How would you describe the state of play uh as it relates to data centers and utilities at a high level for folks who aren't familiar?
SPEAKER_01Well, at a high level, what we're seeing in Indiana is we've created a very uh attractive investment environment, uh, if you will, for big tech and data centers. And we have always had an incredibly attractive regulatory and policy environment for the investor-owned utilities in Indiana. At the same time, we're you know seeing proposed massive amounts of coal plant retirements in the state of Indiana that has caused uh concern uh from leadership in Indiana. The state of Indiana sees enormous opportunity for investment, not just in the construction of data centers and the IT tech that goes with that, but also with utility infrastructure, power plants, uh, those types of resources. So we've created sort of the perfect storm in Indiana with the monopoly utilities and the monopoly big tech and this investment environment in Indiana that uh uh you know has invited uh all of this opportunity, uh if you will, not to mention we're the crossroads of America, if you will, with respect to transmission infrastructure, with respect to water resources, oil and gas pipelines, the manufacturing center uh of this of the country, if you will. So we are we are right with a supportive administrative, supportive legislature, uh Indiana Economic Development Corporation, as the governor says, Indiana is open for business. And uh the powers that be are certainly doing everything they can uh to get that investment here in Indiana.
SPEAKER_00And how are Hoosiers responding? I mean, how how do people feel about this? And and and what do you hear from folks, you know, in Facebook groups at the dinner table in the community? Like, what do people have to say about this friendly investment environment?
SPEAKER_01Well, Hoosiers aren't uh very happy. Let's just say that there are communities all across the state uh that are pushing back hard on the idea of their communities hosting uh these AI data centers. There are massive amounts of concerns around uh water use, water quality, energy use, affordability, climate, uh pollution. They understand that with the data center comes a significant amount of water withdrawals, uh, water discharges, wastewater discharges, gas plants, diesel backup generators, increases in their energy and utility bills. And at the same time, they understand that these AI data centers and these big tech folks aren't paying sales tax, they are paying very little in property tax, promising very few permanent jobs in those communities. So folks are up in arms, uh, if you will. I don't know that we've met the community uh, you know, at the community level anyway, that is embracing uh the idea of AI data centers. The only support that we see may be some from some elected officials, from the economic development folks, the chamber types, if you will, but who's are united uh in their opposition to the idea of hosting these AI data centers in their community? Lots of concerns out there.
SPEAKER_00And Ben, tell me about the centrality of this to y'all's organization. I mean, you're, you know, you're supposed to be the program director for a community organization in Indiana, and now you're like a leading expert in the state. And frankly, nationally, people come to you for expertise on AI data center investments. What has caused this to become such a central issue to your work? And did you see it coming? I mean, this is not everyday program director stuff at a community organization.
SPEAKER_02We've frankly never thought we would be in this situation. Uh, just two years ago, even, um, you know, we were kind of pre-data center build-out here in Indiana. And so it's really hit us, uh, you know, it's been an avalanche of proposals that we're seeing across the state now, just in the past two years. And so it's really reshaped some of our work uh because now we're, in addition to all of our work advocating um for consumers and for the environment in Indiana, we now have this massive new threat that is really, you know, taking us a giant step backwards when it comes to being able to continue in our clean energy transition, which we had making been making some very significant progress up until now with retiring coal plants, with building out solar and wind. And so I think you know, we see this issue as really critical to protecting affordability, reliability, and sustainability. And data centers are the top threat to all of these right now. So I think it's incumbent on us to you know become these experts, become these you know, folks engaged on this issue because it's it's the the number one issue right now on these issues, uh, on these topics that are so important to us.
SPEAKER_00So when you're working with community members and groups all over the state of Indiana, and I believe particularly in Northwest, where there's a lot of concentration of data centers too, what have the results been so far? I know there's a lot of data centers that have been built, but have have folks that you worked with stopped data center proposals? Are there, you know, people are talking about moratoriums, people are talking about delays to make sure that community benefits come through. I mean, what are some of the results from from y'all's organization and groups you work with about how Hoosiers have responded and what's come out of that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Citizens Action Coalition is tracking more than 50 different data center proposals across the state of Indiana. So far, uh local community pushback has successfully stopped at least 14 of those proposals. Um we uh you know to give a lot of credit to our organizer, Bryce, who's been out putting a lot of miles on his car, traveling uh to communities across the state, helping get folks organized, helping them learn about these issues. We've been doing uh you know a tremendous amount of work to try and help these communities uh come to terms with you know what's happening to their community, get them information, help them uh figure out how to respond to these proposals. And uh yeah, increasingly now we're seeing a lot of communities look at their zoning ordinances, look at opportunities like moratoriums to help slow down or stop data center development. And I believe now we're at uh I think 11 different counties out of our 92 in Indiana that have issued a temporary moratorium on data center build-out. So a lot of momentum uh in the favor right now of stopping some of this development and making sure Hoosiers are protected.
SPEAKER_00That's unbelievable. So 11 counties have some type of moratorium in the state. That's a lot. It might not be the highest percentage, but I haven't heard of that many in in basically any state. And and 14 have been stopped in their tracks, at least for now. Kerwin, what's the secret sauce? Why are Hoosiers so good at stopping data centers?
SPEAKER_01Well, I have I I have read that Indiana leads the nation in terms of uh NIMBY Facebook groups, uh, if you will. Uh most of that There's a new stat. Right, yes. No, I saw an article not that long ago about that. Um unfortunately, that NIMBYism is largely around wind and solar development. We have a significant amount of counties in Indiana that have uh very restrictive ordinances uh with the build-out of wind and solar in their communities. They really don't like it, which is uh unfortunate. But Indiana is sort of traditionally a local control state, uh, if you will. Local communities take a lot of pride, ownership, and writing the rules of the road, uh, if you will, for their communities. And so when these proposals come in, there's already community members that know each other. Uh I remember being at a meeting up in a data center proposal not far from my house, uh, where they had already uh stopped the cement factory from coming in there and another development they stopped from coming in there. And here's a data center coming in there, and I and they were talking about, well, we already got rid of those other two. Maybe we should just take the data center because maybe that's less bad than what we've stopped. So I think a lot of it just has to do with uh, you know, in rural Indiana, it's very much about local control and local communities making decisions uh for what they do and what they do not want in their community.
SPEAKER_02And if I could add on to that, I would also just emphasize the affordability crisis we're seeing across the state of Indiana. And I think that's also feeding into a lot of the concerns that we're seeing with data centers. You know, folks are seeing these monstrosities that are using more electricity than a city, you know, wanting to locate in their backyard and are uh having a lot of concerns about how could this further exacerbate my spiking utility bill that has just gotten out of control the last five years. So I think that's also helping to generate uh folks wanting to get engaged on this issue and you know take a stronger stand uh to protect their communities and their wallets.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and if I if I could add on that, Saul, uh excellent point on affordability, but it's also water has become a leading issue in the state of Indiana, largely at the result of a proposed uh massive economic development project just down just north of the city of Minneapolis, you know as LEAP, where there were proposals to sort of steal uh water from one part of the state and build a massive pipeline and bring it to another water of part of the state, uh as well as uh carbon capture and sequestration proposals throughout the state. So water became a big issue just prior to data center sort of surfacing. And so when folks started understanding uh the water needs of these data centers, that sort of just unified uh all of these folks fighting these different different projects.
SPEAKER_00Got it. So there's a there's a strong culture of resistance to development projects without community consent in general, and then there's rising costs, and people are like, we're not interested in that. How would you all describe what works? Because a lot of people are saying, hey, these data centers are coming into our community, some billionaire from Silicon Valley wants to make more money, so they're building it here. We're worried about us not receiving the benefits. What do we do? What would you all, who have arguably, you know, as a community of Hoosiers, one of the best track records of success in the country at fighting off data center development that doesn't benefit local communities? What would you say if someone said, How do you do that? What should we do first? Where do we start?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think you start uh, first of all, you know, we sort of approach it at all levels. Uh, you know, as Ben mentioned, we've got Bryce out there in the community. It's important to have organizers on the ground, uh, helping folks uh stay focused, giving them direction as far as what a local campaign might look like, setting up a Facebook group or an email list or whatever the case may be, uh, and then providing them information. Uh, Ben is great at digging in the weeds at the IURC or at MISO or at PJM or Economic Development Corporation, just trying to find information on what is being proposed in those communities because we've seen big tech and other developers sort of crawl in the darkness, if you will, uh, trying to grease the wheels before anybody knows uh what's going on. And so the more of that uh more sunlight you can shine in on the process, provide folks with information about who's crawling around and who's looking to do what I think is incredibly important, arming folks uh with the tools they need to organize, which include factual, accurate uh information that can inform uh the resistance moving forward.
SPEAKER_02A couple things come to mind for me. I can uh you know, say just you know, one is there is probably more information out there than you realize about some of the projects, even when they tell you it's secret and NDA and you can't release this information. I found a lot of information is out there if you know where to dig. So do some digging. Had to branch out to looking in agencies that I've never monitored before or looked up, but now I'm seeing all sorts of new information to is uh this is an issue that's like very time sensitive. So I say just get to work doing what you can, you know. Don't spend months whiteboarding this and thinking about it and trying to hatch out an internal strategy. No, you need to get to work now, you know. And as you get to roll up your sleeves and you get in the the fights, you'll figure it out, you'll you'll learn, you'll you'll you'll find your way.
SPEAKER_01It all sort of started with uh, you know, but Ben and I leaving that NIPSCO IRP meeting, like we need to do something, and we're like, uh, let's call for a moratorium. We just sort of took the first step, like, we got to put this out there. Folks need to know what the heck's going on. What do we do? Ah, let's call for a moratorium, and then everything just sort of exploded after that.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, pretty wild to see that the moratorium thing took off. That was October 2024 that we called for that, and now there's hundreds or thousands of organizations pushing for it. It's really cool to see.
SPEAKER_00When a data center comes to town in Indiana or across the country, they say, Hey, we're gonna give you a bunch of money. And what I've been hearing from folks is that that you're not getting the full picture of what the pros and cons list of a data center is. So it's not that people don't want there to be a place to store data, but they're sort of coming and saying, Well, you'll get this money, but they're not saying in exchange, we're gonna take this amount of water, this amount of land, you're you're gonna pay this much more money in utility bills, and so you're not receiving the full picture. Ben, could you talk a little bit more about those details of what goes into that research and and how you would describe the sort of pros and cons list of data centers that maybe developers aren't sharing in full?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would say a big challenge uh in Indiana and elsewhere across the country is just the lack of transparency that these developers are providing on their proposed data centers. Uh so it's leaving a lot of communities in the dark on the very basic information about things like their energy and water consumption, about the potential tax subsidies they're getting, about the, you know, uh the money, even the the property taxes they're going to provide to the local government often are not clearly identified up front. And so they're you know making these uh kind of very generalized claims about providing uh you know some construction jobs and long-term economic um benefits, but there's really not a lot to back up uh you know a lot of these uh claims that they're making. They're often relying more on rhetoric. And so what we're trying to do is, you know, look for every possible public source of information, um, to triangulate as much uh credible information as we can about the data center proposal that requires a lot of work on multiple fronts. That means Bryce is doing a lot of legwork in the fields to develop relationships with folks, to get folks on the ground to help us gather information, to help share information. That means I'm doing a lot of digging in the weeds of the dockets of the agencies that regulate um things in Indiana, like their environmental IDEM, the Indiana Department of Environmental Management, uh at the regional grid level, MISO and PJM grids, where there are transmission filings that have kernels of information. Uh, so it's really kind of uh piecing together a lot of information from a lot of places and then providing consistent high-quality information to communities to help them understand projects, and then clearly identify where we don't know information, where it's been not identified by the developer, or where they're sharing stories that you know maybe are too good to be true, that don't have a lot backing them up, or enforcement mechanisms to actually ensure that they're gonna come to fruition.
SPEAKER_00So you mentioned a couple of things that I want to dig into a little more. I mean, let's just for listeners clarify. So the NIPSCO is the Northern Indiana public service company, right? And one thing that's gotten a lot of attention is that the private equity shop, Blackstone, has recently purchased a massive stake. You know, we're talking about the big tech companies in California, but where does private equity fit in? What are these firms doing and why are they buying up utilities in a place like Indiana?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'll I'll start. You know, we had you know Blackstone with the the NIPSCO uh purchase. We've got uh BlackRock looking at purchasing the uh public utility here in the uh city of Indianapolis. And I think what uh what these private equity firms they understand that data centers have this insatiable appetite uh you know for electricity. You know, we first really became aware of this uh data center onslaught uh when Ben and I were at a NIPSCO IRP meeting uh a couple of years ago where they basically told us their load was going to quadruple uh over the next 10 years, and we just shook our head, like, could you repeat that, please? You know, and we were shocked. So private equity understands that there are billions and billions uh of dollars that need to be invested in the uh electric infrastructure in power plants, in fuel. Uh, how do utility companies make money? Utility companies money make money by spending money. And so there's going to be an enormous amount of capital uh committed to electric infrastructure, including generation plants. And so they see opportunities for an enormous amount of returns, uh, enormous amounts of profits because um, you know, the insatiable desire for electricity from these data centers promises enormous spending uh from these monopoly utilities. So that's incredibly attractive for these private equity firms whose primary mission is to extract as much profit as they can from the assets that they own. Understanding data centers' need for electricity, monopoly utility companies are now the assets that they want to own because they're going to be realizing enormous earnings with all this investment coming down the pike to serve these AI data centers.
SPEAKER_00So investment to a lot of folks in the Midwest sounds good. But yeah, Ben, could you tell us a little, I mean, who are the winners and losers when a deal like this goes through? What impact does that actually have on this whole conversation?
SPEAKER_02Well, I would you know say the consumers are the losers because you know, private equity is about their private investors, and we're talking about public utilities in the public interest that need to be protected. So these are antithetical concepts where private equity is looking to extract as much as they can from consumers to send to their shareholders or investors, as the case may be. And they're not just playing the utility game. They're, you know, not only are they buying utilities or investing in portions of them, but they're also buying clean energy companies or other infrastructure companies that are building power plants. They're buying or investing in the data centers themselves, like QTS, I believe, is a Blackstone funded uh data center company. So they're looking to make money from not just owning utilities, but also owning the data centers, owning the infrastructure to serve the data centers, um, and everything else in between. So at the end of the day, we're you know concerned about the impacts to consumers and then also the environment when it comes to just the extraordinary amount of pollution and climate impact associated with this massive build-out of fossil fuels and keeping our coal plants open.
SPEAKER_00I'm fascinated by this. You all have mentioned climate change, uh, you've mentioned coal plants. Obviously, most people don't want local pollution uh where they live, but there's you know, there's been a huge political divide created around climate issues uh across this country, in large part uh via disinformation and misinformation from the fossil fuel industry. How do you all see the political divides playing out in Indiana specifically? I mean, most people, you know, know that Indiana is is a red state, at least in you know, federal presidential elections. And we've heard a lot about Republican and Democratic majority communities fighting off data centers. How do you see new people coming together or different types of opposition cropping up across the state?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's really kind of really depressing in Indiana because you know, we were on track to effectively be coal-free uh by around 2030, 2032. Uh, we've completely backpedaled on that with these emergency orders keeping these coal plants open and now uh propose massive amounts of gas build out. I think there's a I don't think there's really a partisan divide at the community level with respect to data centers. We're seeing the left and the right united with a common adversary here, uh, if you will, on the AI data center. There may be some disagreements around energy source, around climate, but those disagreements around those issues have not surfaced or caused any tension whatsoever with respect to the AI data center uh conundrum, uh, if you will. So I don't see necessarily at the community level, at the grassroots level, a connection between that divide yet, uh just because we have that unified enemy, uh, if you will, in AI data centers. Now, when we're talking politics at the political level, there's folks on both sides of the aisle with sort of different feelings uh about things. But that divide on climate, clean energy, coal gas hasn't yet really, from my perspective, come into the conversation with respect to AI data centers because there's so much angst, anxiety, frustration around the data centers themselves, uh, that that's that's the that that's the common enemy that we all share, if you will.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell What has your experience been, Ben, when you're doing research on this and and kind of Helping inform communities about what's going on. Do people respond differently in different towns and different places? Or is there a pretty unified sort of frustration and concern across, you know, normal political divides?
SPEAKER_02No, I would say the the reaction has been pretty universal of, you know, why the heck are we trying to attract these things to our state? Why are we giving them so many subsidies? Or, you know, have our elected officials lost their minds? Like these things are not good for our community. And I've heard that, you know, from every community, from you know, the urban communities in Indianapolis to the you know rural communities out um, you know, outside of the cities in Indiana uh in Indiana. So this has really kind of been a unifying sentiment where you know it's it's really kind of a 99% versus a 1% issue where the folks on the top are trying to you know shove this down our throats and everybody is like, what the heck are you doing? Uh we don't want these things.
SPEAKER_00So I was reading on that topic of everyone saying that, I was reading through um comments and posts in a Facebook group called NIPSCO Monopoly Madness. Um, I was kind of blown away by some of the things that people were saying. There was uh one person who said, Hey, like I actually turned off my furnace and all of my gas stuff just to see, and they still charging me $72 for delivery fees. And like, what particularly were they delivering when I turned everything off? You know, other people were saying, you know, NIPSCO, more like GIPSCO, they just steal money from us, and here I am, you know, in Northwest Indiana, like running my small business, you know, this is this is garbage, essentially. Um, seemed like people who had never connected before were starting to come together around this issue. Has that, I mean, has new community been built uh by this sort of top versus bottom issue? It seems like new political divides are being drawn almost like strictly by AI data centers and related problems in Indiana. Is that true?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I think that's absolutely true. And uh, you know, one of the one of the brilliance of what Bryce is doing in his organizing work is connecting uh all of these various communities, sharing best practices, sharing lessons learned, having you know, town halls, community meetings, bringing in folks from different data center fights from different parts of the state. So, yes, without question, it is a it is a unifying issue uh here in our state, as Ben said, it's a 99-1 uh one sort of topic. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What has been the most surprising thing about the AI data center fight to you?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, outside of sort of the rapid speed by which this surfaced and we sort of had to react and then respond uh to what was going on, I think it's what what we've been talking about. Um, you know, we've been so divided uh in this country recently and remain so on you know on so many issues. But what has surprised me most really is everybody coming together, regardless of zip code, regardless of political persuasion or political leanings, just a a just a unification um that we're seeing is is uh is is somewhat refreshing, uh if you will. Everybody's sort of blind to to partisan lines and other other controversial issues and laser focused on on the task at hand, and that's slowing and stopping uh the spread of these AI data centers. So that's that's a bit refreshing and a bit surprising. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So Ben, when I talk to you, you tell me incredibly specific things about AI data center development in Indiana. I cannot believe the breadth of knowledge that you have built up in such a short time on how these things work. Do you have any specific statistic or story that stands out in your mind when you're thinking about AI data centers of like how someone has reacted to the research, uh a data point that stands out to you that you would pull out to help people understand uh why there are groups called madness, uh monopoly madness, cropping up in the state with thousands of members.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh I think a few things come to mind, you know, for that specific example of Northwest Indiana with NIPSCO, you know, they've endured some of the most egregious rate increases in the past two years that I've seen anywhere in the country. We're talking 49% bill increase in the past two years on their electric side, 42% bill increase on their gas side. So they are really suffering with this uh you know rate shock right now. Let's let's call it what it is, rate shock where they can't possibly keep up with the pace of these rate increases. And then when you see you know the fact that you know one of these, you know, that 1,000 megawatt data center can use as much electricity as 730,000 Hoosier households, you know, people are you know pretty furious when they then they find out that these things are getting billions of dollars in subsidies. So I would say it's just kind of the total uh the totality of the situation when you look at the you know the scale of these investments, uh the scale of the potential bill impacts, and then you look at specific examples uh of you know whether it's Duke Energy and a $216 million transmission line that they want to build for a metadata center that they're making other ratepayers pay for, or it's you know, IM up in northeast Indiana spreading out more than $400 million in transmission connection costs for Google and Amazon onto the bills of other ratepayers. I think people are you know not happy that these things aren't paying their fair share when all of our elected leaders keep insisting they are. And then there's, you know, you look at the, you know, you try and fact-check them, and everywhere you see that that's not the case.
SPEAKER_01Part of what is further unifying people is is just what Ben just said. What we think sort of is gaslighting coming from the powers that be, uh, basically dismissing uh the opponents and folks like my organization as misinformation or a rage bait or clickbait or whatever the case may be. You know, look, don't look over here, look over here, sort of stuff. They continue to hear this rhetoric from the administration and the powers that be, uh, understanding that what they're seeing every day, you know, differs uh from what uh what the decision makers are are telling them. And that's just further unifying people.
SPEAKER_00It's remarkable. I mean, it sounds like there's a lot of corruption going on, right? Because there's a huge amount of people in the state who are being adversely impacted by development. And somehow there's way less concern in the state house, and you think, is this a coincidence? And then, you know, I've heard stories of people uh crashing into lobbyists for these private equity groups, you know, uh lobbyists for the AI data center companies sort of crawling all over the state capital in Indiana. Have you all experienced that? I mean, what's the what's the picture of of who's showing up in legislative sessions at the state house?
SPEAKER_01Well, there's no question that uh, you know, big tech does have uh boots on the ground uh in Indiana and at the state house. Most of them, uh, to be honest, to somebody at the statehouse during legislative session are not very visible. Uh the only the only big tech company from from my perspective that's sort of visible and out front is is Google. Uh Google does try to have conversations, uh make their presence known, if you will, uh down at the statehouse. But the others are in the shadows, not sure who's representing them, not sure who's uh talking to who, but then all of a sudden there's a piece of legislation or a proposed amendment or or some approval or something that happens. And so, yeah, you got to scratch your head. Uh they're there, but uh, you know, they're not they're not very visible.
SPEAKER_00I'm really inspired by the work you do, and I have to tell you like I literally hear every week about people being like, yo, whatever's happening in Indiana, like we want a piece of that. And you guys are just like head down. I'm like, you know, you could try and call them there, they'll talk to you, but they're like at the state house right now, going ham.
SPEAKER_01So uh yeah, really appreciate you guys. We appreciate that. That's that's nice to hear. And you know, we're we're you know, fortunate uh, you know, to be able to do the work. Uh, you know, we're we're down state house uh working on policy, we're at the regulatory commission trying to mitigate harm for consumers, and we're out there in the community to avoid things uh getting to the regulatory commission. So we're able to sort of approach things uh uh on all fronts, if you will. So yeah, it's it's been a lot. And yeah, we get a lot of calls, uh, emails, Facebook messages. It's uh a little tough to keep up, but we do what we can.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it's been great to see just the new connections we're making all over the country and seeing all the amazing work being done elsewhere. It's been really helpful from our perspective to learn from other places like Virginia and Georgia and so on, and hear from hear from them. So it's it's a two-way avenue there.
SPEAKER_00That was my conversation with Hoosiers Kerwin Olsen and Ben Inskeep. The fight in Indiana continues. Kerwin, Ben, and so many more are fighting daily to slow the onslaught of AI billionaire pet projects coming to their home state. To learn how to join them in their fight, visit their social media or website in our show notes. You've been listening to The Hum. We're publishing new episodes weekly, so if you like what you heard, please download and subscribe to the show and start referring to yourself as a humhead or a hummingbird. You won't be the first. Message us on Instagram at the Humpot to get connected to organizers in your state or country. The Hum is produced in partnership with Rohome Productions. Rohome's creative director is Alex Lewis. Their executive producer is John Myers. Our producer is Emily Rizzo. The Hum's video producer is Adotrehan, and we partner with the Center for Nonviolent Conflict Research. I'm Saul Levin, your host and banjo journeyman. Thanks for listening and see you next Tuesday.
SPEAKER_02Rohome Productions.
