She Built A Career In Rooms That Doubted Her

A film set can feel like a shark tank — and if you’re the cinematographer, everyone expects you to lead with total confidence while the clock, money, and egos close in.

We sit down with Magdalena Górka — a powerhouse female DP who has worked alongside names like Janusz Kamiński, Steven Spielberg, Ben Kingsley, Jason Momoa, and on productions connected to Marvel Studios and Star Trek — to talk about the part of cinematography nobody puts on the gear list: psychology.

How do you walk onto a set, read the room, and communicate in a way that keeps the crew moving, the director supported, and the creative work protected?

We get real about gender dynamics in the film industry, including the everyday moments of misogyny, the double standard around direct communication, and what it takes to stay calm when someone tries to bait you into a reaction. She shares hard-earned tactics for authority and survival, plus a formative story about the rare mentor who publicly backed her up.

We also dig into confidence and insecurity, why calmness is a creative advantage, and how to handle rejection when luck and opportunity feel uneven.

From international productions to the pressure-cooker culture of certain sets, we explore what changes across countries — and what doesn’t. Magdalena reflects on watching Spielberg and Kamiński work with mutual respect and creative trust, then pivots to the biggest question: what does success cost?

The conversation lands on work-life balance, relationships, financial dynamics, American Society of Cinematographersrecognition, and why mentorship pipelines matter if we want more women cinematographers to thrive without being thrown into the deep end.

If this resonated, subscribe for more conversations with working artists, share the episode with someone building their career, and leave a review with the moment that hit you hardest.

A space for women navigating music, creativity, and everything that comes with it.

Transcript

Navigating A Male-Dominated Set

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Do you feel as a female on set with bunch of males that you have to be nicer or be tougher?

SPEAKER_01 0:09

The best people I ever observed working in this field are the people that are the best psychologists. So you just walk on a set and you have to assess who is whom and what kind of treatment each person needs.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

And let's find out who else. Do you find yourself at work caring for people a lot?

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I would hope so. You know, it's it's a really, really um hard thing and a hard job, and just people just forget about it, you know, when there is like a lot of emotions involved and everything. So I always make sure that the crew is happy, satisfied, and fed. You don't mess with people food. That's like the most important thing I think on set because they have to have a power to work, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

So um, do you feel like because you're pretty much swimming with the sharks, right? You are in the industry, in the field that's very male-dominated. And yet you have this nurturing thing. Do you think it is different with male and female cinematographers?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Well, I wouldn't know the full answer because I never was a male cinematographer, but like looking at my friends, um, that depends. It depends on the level of sensitivity and empathy, right? So um I would definitely say that we are um a little bit more sensitive and attuned to people needs um than my friends, but you know, they sometimes caring about the crew too. Although sometimes. Sometimes, well, you know, when I when I do work with males, they they more focused on the achievement and what they need to get from the job. And we are focused a little bit more on collaboration, so that's the difference I've seen on the shows that I would share uh cinematography in with males.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Do you feel like because you're a female you're tiptoeing a bit more? You're talking about a collaboration. There are a lot of people that want to be bosses on set, right? They're they're they're personalities, they're egos, there is a director, they're actors, they're big names. You've worked with some of the biggest names in the industry. You will work with Jason Mamont, Ben Kingsley. I mean the list goes on and on and on, and they're all these forces. How do you maneuver all the you know personalities and egos?

Managing Egos Moment By Moment

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Well, just on a daily basis, it's just literally moment by moment, because you cannot plan it. But um one thing that I would say that I'm learning as I, you know, grow and get older is um saying less is better.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

What if somebody's wrong? What if you know that you know the choice that they're making is not a good choice and you know it should be done differently?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Well, it's not my place to teach them, but it depends who this person is. If this is a person that I need them to do the job in, you know, in this whole collaboration that we're doing, and they do something wrong that I have to correct it because that's my job. But if this is a director or producer, this is their show, and we are being hired to make their dreams come true. So it's it's very, very tricky thing, and this is a key thing that you have to understand that it's not about you, but you are hired to do the job, and the the faster you're going to understand it, the better job you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

So when we talk about correcting, like you're working with a bunch of men, um, what is your typical set? Like how many people give me a bracket of your smallest crew and of some of the biggest crews that you've been working with that have been, you know, that you're the boss for them.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Well,

From One-Assistant Shoots To 100

SPEAKER_01 5:05

in the smallest crew, actually, this is funny, we are in Iceland right now in Reykjavik where I'm shooting a movie, but I was here ten years ago and I shot a music video music video with um by myself, literally, uh, with one assistant. So that was my smallest crew. It was me, a producer that was driving a car, um, and I had a one-camera assistant and cameras and and lenses, and we all handled this by ourselves, and we were traveling all over island and shooting beautiful landscapes with small little kids running in the frame. So that was my smallest crew, and then the biggest crew would be up to like hundred people on like a huge movie sets. Like, for example, this year. Um, I shot the biggest movie of my career, and that was Can we talk about what kind of a movie is that? Yeah, it's uh it's called Animal Friends, and it's uh it's an action comedy, and I never shot a comedy in my life. It was the first time I shot a comedy, but it's an action-arrated comedy, so a lot of happening, it's a it's a road trip about two animals traveling uh to find their home.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

So let's talk about correcting 100 people. Um do you feel as a female on set with a bunch of males that you have to be nicer or be tougher with them?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Well, uh this is also a tricky question because that literally depends on individual. So that depends um about how and what a one person individual person can take. So the best people I ever observed working in this field are the people that are the best psychologists. So you just walk on a set and you have to assess who is whom and what kind of treatment each person needs and how to talk to each person because different people that need different talking. So, you know, this is how you do it. It's just, you know, it's a case by case.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Do you think it's your superpower as a woman to have that, to have that emotional intelligence, or do you think that men have the same ability?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

No, I think that this is the same. Because I don't think they do. No, I think I think actually uh I would say this is mm our weakness because we care too much. And you know, we cannot just cut out emotions. We really care about how people feel, what people think, and it affects us. Where uh my my friends and colleagues are able to really really focus on what they need to do and their job, and they less care about people around them. So, you know, I just don't think that this is actually in our advantage, but it is in our advantage when it goes into creation and just being very, very creative because um you see more, you feel more, and um that can be transpired into the screen.

Misogyny On Set And Staying Calm

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Have you ever been put on a spot where uh everybody's watching and somebody clearly disrespects you on set um on every single project? Very often. On every single project. Yes, of course. Do you think it is because you're a female or it is not?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Um yes. I uh unfortunately I I hate to give this answer, but it it is true, and it's really funny because I recently I I disconnected from this because I don't pay attention to it anymore, and I don't focus on this anymore because it's disturbs your you know being professional and your creative flow. Yes, and a creative flow, of course, and so I just don't focus on it anymore. And I just recently had a conversation with the director that noticed this kind of behavior, and I didn't even react. I just said what I needed to say, I uh communicated the message that I needed to communicate, but I didn't react, I didn't correct this behavior, I didn't say how it made me feel, nothing but the director of the movie um saw that and he mentioned this in the next few days, and he said to me, Well, I realize the difference today. I realize the difference and misogyny that is happening um on set in regards to treatment of you or other and other people that are male, and it was very interesting because I rarely hear that, and it's it takes a lot of courage to uh mention something like this to your collaborator, and it was very nice to hear, although we didn't solve the problem, which is we just were in together in this acknowledgement of yeah, that behavior is happening.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

So wow, and how how were you able to get to it? And have you ever had a situation when you had to, let's say at the beginning of your career, when you had to leave the room, cry, and then dust yourself off and come back and be in charge again? Has it ever happened?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

No, I do not cry on set, and I never I don't think I ever cried on set. Did you cry after?

SPEAKER_02 10:37

No, I don't. So how are you able, especially at the beginning of your career? Now you're, you know, they have nothing on you, you already know what you're doing, but at the beginning, in the sea of sharks, in this male-dominated territory, how did you deal with that? How did you not let yourself go and cry?

SPEAKER_01 10:59

I didn't know that there was any other options. Like my option was survival. It was pretty simple. You're either going to do the job and do it the best you can and be professional, or you're not gonna get hired again. And it's all on you. And you know, I just I I grew up in a male environment, I study in the male environment, so I was very, very well prepared, but I wasn't prepared for a professional world and how brutal it was. So nobody ever teaches you in a film school how difficult it is, nobody teaches you or prepares you what have you what you have to do apart from doing a great job. So I was pretty

The Mentor Who Spoke Up

SPEAKER_01 11:45

lucky at the very beginning because I was trained by literally the best people in the business, and also I worked with one of the best directors in my country, which is Poland, and he was a very, very strong man. So, on my very first show as a cinematographer, um, one of my camera operators that was actually my friend from the school, we were on the same year together studying in the film Screen Wooch. Um, he uh he didn't feel good as a camera operator because he I guess couldn't understand why I got a shot and why it wasn't him, but we were very good friends. And I gave him a shot to be with me on the show, but he didn't feel great about it, and I didn't know until he started joking about me being in this position and taking time to make decisions, and I was very, very young, I was 24 years old, and um and I was just looking at it and I felt sad because it was a combination of being disrespectful disrespected in front of my peers and other people, um, but also a betrayal of my friend that I took with me, and it was this heartbreak of all of this understanding that it most probably it's not going to be my friend when we're done with work. And I remember this director standing up on set in the middle of a very complicated scene, literally calling him out in front of everybody.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Wow, who is the director? What was the movie?

SPEAKER_01 13:19

He was a it was it was a TV show called Glina, and director was Vladislav Pashikovsky. And it was amazing to experience this because after that it never ever happened again to me. Nobody ever stood up for me. I had to learn by myself how to do it, but that moment gave me so much confidence that there are people that will stand up for you if they believe in you and also in your ability to do the job, and also just being a sincere human being, and just this coming from that man that was perceived as a very tough man, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Oh, and till this day, one of the best Polish directors, highly respected, also a very tall guy, so very tall that was present. So, what did he do? What what exactly do you remember what was the situation and what did he say?

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Like, he said, um, if you have a problem with this, if you have a you have to understand, first of all, that she is your boss. And if you have a problem with this and you cannot take her orders, maybe you shouldn't be here. And the choice is yours. And I remember this and I was just like stunned, and my my jaw dropped, you know, to the floor, and I was just like, wow, this is amazing. And the guy just went quiet.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

So, so wait, so you just told me that you had some sort of a problem with somebody being disrespectful on every single set, and only one time the director or you know, somebody else stood up for you.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yes. Um, people apologize all the time. This happens, and this happens on the biggest jobs. Uh, very rarely, it takes a lot of courage to do this, of course, and you know, confidence and all this stuff. So people apologize, people write letters after, and you know, and I have a lot of friends that I work with repeatedly because you know it gets heated, and there's a lot of emotions in creating and in being creative, and also in a stress about money, about time, and if we're gonna do it, if we're gonna make it an ambition, you know, there is a lot of ambition as well. So um it's it's very, very, very, very challenging thing, but nobody ever stood up for me, I'm set, except for Vashikoski, which I would never forget. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

Was he, would you call him one of your mentors?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

A hundred percent. Yeah, first of all, he's the first director that ever gave me a shot, and I would never forget this, and I would always thank him from the bottom of my heart, and if I ever um, you know, get any reward in my life, he would be the first person for me to thank publicly. Um uh and yes, every single time I get a big movie, he's the first person that I text, he's the first person that I tell that, you know, this is what I'm doing and this is what I'm gonna do, you know, and I always ask him about advice.

Mentors And Kindness From Actresses

SPEAKER_02 16:31

So when you were in film school and you were in Woodge, one of the most respected film schools in the world, how many women were studying at the same time as as you? Studying cinematography.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

One. One one on the whole four years of cinematography in the school.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

And um do you think he gave you a chance because you were kind of a curiosity? Like, here's this gorgeous blonde. Let's let's see her, let's see how she fails. How why do you think he gave you a chance? How how did it happen? You would have to ask him.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

What is your what are you sensing? Uh well, it's a it's a man of um a big integrity. And I was a camera operator for his uh cinematographer. Um I started working with them when I was 20 years old, and this is a natural uh progression in his world of order and how things go. Um, you know, when his cinematographer couldn't work with him anymore because he had another movie to do, the next person to call was me. So, you know, that's how it goes in the world of what this was Bashikoski, from what I understood. But um the real reason, it's only he can answer.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

We'll we'll ask him. Yeah. Have you ever had any female mentors? And what I mean by that doesn't have to be necessarily, you know, in the movie industry, but in general. Have you had any female roles or mentors or or or or or not? If not, you know, then not. Well, we don't have to find them, like if if there weren't, we we don't have to um stretch it.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

You know, I I was lucky to meet a lot of very kind people on my road. And funny enough, it was always actresses. It's it's really, really surprising, I know. Uh, because you know it's hard. There is when I was starting, there were no female cinematographers to ask. It was only Yolanta Delevska in my country, and I just didn't know her. And then when I moved to Los Angeles, I just I didn't know any female cinematographers, so I just didn't know uh, you know, where to find them, how to reach out and stuff like that. But I would always have an older older actress that I would work with on the movie, and they would very they would be always very, very kind to me. They would always make sure that I have something to eat, that I have a break or something like this, and they would always call out producers to for them to take care of me. And this trend is kind of you know continuing. Like um on my recent movie um in Bulgaria, um I had Audrey Plaza taking care of me, like um making sure that I live in the right hotel and that I have a lunch break or that I then I'm invited to dinner after a whole day of shooting, and it was really really interesting because nobody else did. So wow, yeah, it was really fun.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

I I don't know why I'm surprised by it because especially with actresses, you think they are, you know, that they are all about themselves and and all that, and here they were all of them, a lot of them big stars, and they wanted you to do well. What was that surprise for you?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

No, because everybody creates persona, and this persona is being created for many reasons, but very often is to create a shield so people don't get to you, right? So, but uh at the end of the day, inside you're just a human. And you know, when when you see another person and you connect with them and you see that there is a goodness, that there is a human on another side, when you see someone, somebody sees you, right? So, you know, obviously I'm making them look good, and I take care of them, and you know, I'm making sure that they they look good on camera and they feel comfortable. So I guess this is just being returned, you know. But I I I always believed this is just a human interaction, you know. And I remember when I was very, very young cinematographers and I would start on the big movies, you know, there was this Polish actress that I was I stayed friends for uh with for a very long time. It was Maugosha Foremniak, and she was just so kind to me, you know, and then Agnieszka Pilashewska on a show with Wadeswav and you know, just this Polish actresses that would just be always were always asking me how am I doing and if I need something, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

That's that's wonderful. That's really wonderful to hear. Speaking of a shield, when you come to work, when you when you come on set, do you feel like you have to have a shield?

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Um,

Directness And The Professional Shield

SPEAKER_01 21:36

a hundred percent because you can't just be yourself, you know. Of course, you're trying to be yourself as much as you can, but you also have a job to do. So you know, mine is just professionalism. I'm just very professional and I have to just execute, you know, what I what I what I'm here to do. And uh it my process is just. Go through the list of the things that I need, and people are very often like, Well, but you just you just very direct, and I'm like, But that's what I need to do, you know. I don't have much time, and the job has to be done. So, you know, people always mistake my directness and just very, very kind of strict way of asking questions as being cold and demanding, which is just my way of doing things because you know I'm just like very focused, and this this focus is sometimes being seen as oh, I don't pay attention to the fact that you know somebody have needs, but I just I'm not your mom.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

I'm the boss. It's funny because I wonder if you know, when it comes to male cinematographers, nobody would ask them to understand being direct, having a direct communication, expressing your needs, you know, as as a boss on set would be just a given. So it's it's very strange that when it comes from a woman, it's like, wait, why are you just being cold and direct? Well, that's kind of my job, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

It's really funny because I saw this New York Times, you know, cartoon recently and um you know, like drawing, um, and it said, you know, what is the difference between being assertive and pain in the ass? And it says, Is your gender? And that's literally what it is, because when I ask about you know what happened here, for example, is like I ask for a certain equipment and it's never being questioned by my male friends. Like they need this to do the job, and that's kind of obvious. But when I ask for it, it's like, oh, why does she need this? Like, oh, it's just so difficult. I'm just like, no, it's not. Like, if if we don't have money for it, or you don't want to give it to me, we can have a conversation, and you can tell me if you have a better idea. I'm always open to better idea. But if you don't, don't question it, you know? But it's I never seen my and I and I work with a lot of great cinematographers because the way that TV series is being shot in America are with two DPs and we just alternate. And I never seen them being questioned about you know the choices of equipment and amount that they need. It's a certain of bro culture that I would never have because I'm not a bro, you know. So it's just it's it's really interesting to watch and how like at some point women get very frustrated and then they being called emotional, but it's just a frustration that we are not being heard and we are being pushed, and eventually we break, right? So it's like, oh, that's the problem with women women being in charge, that they emotional. And that's the thing that I hear the most as a you know criticism of a woman in charge is that they're being emotional, which actually when you think about it, it can be an asset, right? Handled in the right way. How can it be an asset? Well, because you feel a little bit more and you attune to people's needs, right? So it's just the first full circle that we start from.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Is this what pisses you the most? This you know, when when at work, the different treatment that you really just see almost every day. Is that is that the hardest part? What's the hardest part?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

It it doesn't piss me off anymore. Um, because it's part of the job. So you have to accept it. And I think that the success is in acceptance about a lot of things. It's success in your private life, success at work. It's to accept and adapt. And that's what people don't talk about very often. They're talking about being talented, being tough, um, being determinated, but nobody talks about the fact that you just have to make a peace with the environment that you are in and use it to your advantage or adjust and bend to what to do to make it successful, right? So it doesn't piss me off, it just makes me sad. It just makes me sad when I see certain people on set not seeing me at all. They just don't see. They would joke with every single person that is around me, with camera assistant, with PA, uh, you know, with actors, but I'm standing there and nobody talks to me because they don't know how.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Do you think they're intimidated by you or they why do you think or they really want to show you that you're different?

SPEAKER_01 26:59

No, I don't think it comes from that. And it also comes to, you know, like you should ask them this question because I don't know this. But mostly are insecurities. Those are those are the things that block people the most in every part of life. And when you're insecure about something, um, then it just shows, you know, at work. And there is some sort of insecurity in a person that interacts with you that is just they're taking it out on you, and they just don't know how to talk with you. And it's very hard to come and just open up and say, like, hey, look, you know, the thing that you do, the thing that you say make me feel that way. It's a super hard conversation, right? So it's easier to just cut it out, and that's when the walls are being built, and that's when connections are being cut, and that's where the great job is mediocre, you know. So this is like my mission in life to break that ice, you know.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Speaking of insecurities, when did you start being confident? You were, you know, straight out of school. Uh when did you have you always been confident, or is this something that you worked through and and how was your journey with insecurities, confidence?

Insecurity And The Calm That Creates

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Is it still happening? Do you get sometimes insecure?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Never God. Every single, and this is the word that I don't like artist, you know, because I don't think I I don't see myself this way. I see myself as um how to say that, how to put it in words, um a maker, you know, like a maker. Um but every single artist is insecure because from insecurities and tapping into really big depths of what's inside, you create. And you just you you like combat this every day when you go to work, you know, like you just you become someone. And when I watch, for example, big actors in front of camera, the the biggest ones and the best ones are calm, and they are able to tap into something that is being called talent, but it just you either have it or not. And the same with every single person that is great in what they do, you either have it or not, and the amount that you can access makes you from mediocre to great, and that's is combating insecurities, that is confidence, that is believing in yourself, but mostly calmness. How much you can calm the chaos.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

So if you could give an advice to a young artist of some sort, whether she's a you know, wants to be a cinematographer or a director or painter, and she's starting, and she really does not have the confidence. She feels very insecure about her work. She's coming to set. Let's say, let's take cinematography, because that's something you know so well. She shows up to set and and she feels wobbly and she is scared, and it's her first movie. What's the mantra?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Just stay with your truth. Whatever it is that makes you unusual, different, you know, whatever makes you you just stay with your truth. First of all, you have to ask yourself what is your motivation? If your motivation is creation and doing something awesome, then you just tap to this and you just like you spread this, you know what I mean? But if your motivation is control and uh being cool, you know, and just just showing people something that you're covering up and inside you really insecure and scared, you know, uh broken child that goes there to show the ego, this would never work. You just have to be yourself, whatever it is. And if you are yourself, then a right people eventually is going to find you. How do you deal with rejection?

SPEAKER_02 31:40

And you know, there are a lot of projects that that you're doing today, and it's easy for you to pick and say, I'll do this one, maybe I I won't do this one. But at the beginning, I'm sure you know it came with rejection. Um, how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Um, on a daily basis, I mean, it doesn't really affect me anymore because it's just part of the job, and it there is so many elements for you to get the job. Like what? Luck. Number one, experience. Number two, nobody is ever going to give you a shot unless they are insane. Um, if you don't have experience, like you need to prove that you can handle this. It's a lot of money that we are juggling with. And but at the beginning you don't have experience, right? When you're starting out, you don't. That's why somebody sees something in you that you don't even see in yourself. And that's for example what Vladislav Paschikovsky saw in me. I didn't know that I have the guts. I didn't know. I was just trained, you know, to be a soldier, to be a little soldier, that I can do this, that I can, you know, uh shoot something, that I can lead the crew, but I didn't know how capable I am until somebody gave me a shot. So first thing is a lack, then experience, then a talent, and then a hard work. So without a hard work, you you would never get anywhere. If you're lazy, forget about it. You can't just ride on luck.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

You've worked in different countries with different crews. Is

Culture Clashes And Not Showing Cracks

SPEAKER_02 33:25

there a difference with how you are treated as a as a as a cinematographer in different cultures?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

A hundred percent, and it's really funny because the most inclusive culture is America, right? Because everything is so political, and just at this point, nobody can even be themselves anymore. It's just like there's so many rules, there's so many things that you can or cannot say that it's just ridiculous. And it's just super hard to work, and it feels like you you cannot breathe because every single time you say something, someone just going to judge you, you know? And it's so much. You're gonna you're gonna get cancelled. You can get cancelled. You're just like, you know, there is there's a actually a lot of judgment in this non-judgmental inclusive world, which is ridiculous, you know. It's just it's actually the most difficult in the most inclusive, if that makes sense, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:27

It's good on one hand, but it kind of is holding you back in in the other way.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

And then the actually the hardest culture that I ever had to work with is a Balkan culture. Because of masculine masculinity that you have to combat, you know, first before you can actually get to the level when they're listening to you. You felt it right away when you walked on set? 100%, and it's just it it was it was very, very hard because there is a certain level of disrespect of like, you know, this woman is a woman, and I have to listen to her, and I hate this. I just hate this, and just how you jump, you know, from just this wall that you have immediately to like, okay, we're just here to do the job. We just get over that.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Did you have to use some of the you know so-called prison methods of the like showing people where the character is so they just once for good would would understand, especially with the Balkan culture? No, you just you just disconnect and you just do your job.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

The the one don't take it in. No.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

The the somebody's like clearly rude and they are clearly looking at you like us, sweetie.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Like you just don't, you just don't engage. Because all the person wants always in every situation, whenever they challenge you, is to engage because they need attention, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:10

So tell me more because I really want all the girls and women that are that are listening to to take it with them when they get disrespected, with whatever they do, when they get shaken, pushed, you know, and they they feel wobbly. What's the what's the method?

SPEAKER_01 36:28

How do you deal with that? There is no method, like you know, you just literally go moment by moment, but um you you cannot get caught in this, so it it doesn't mean I don't want to say that it doesn't affect me, of course it affects me, and I go on a side and I just like ah, like you just you know, you just scream it out, or you go to a person that is your ally on set, you know, you always have friends and you just air it out. Most of the time it's my DIT because I am in the tent. So, you know, my DIT hears and knows everything, so I just I just air out, but while it's happening, you just you just plainly communicate to this person what you need coldly, plainly. This is what I need you to do. I need you to put this crane in this position and go from here to here on that lens and do this, and that's it. And one of the best advices I ever got when I was challenged the most in one of the most challenging sets I ever had in my life was in Canada, and I have a wonderful key grip that was way older than me, and I'm always extremely lucky with key grips. I think I met every single great key grip in the world. So he said to me, Magdalena, remember, do not show the crack because once you show the crack, the water keeps

Spielberg And Kaminski On Creative Trust

SPEAKER_01 37:57

coming.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

When you got a shot to work with Steven Spielberg and Janusz Kaminsky, you said that this experience changed the way you think about things and business forever.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

I I don't know if it changed me so much, but it just um it it opened it peeled another layer and it showed me different perspective of doing things. Like, you know, I always you always want to do better, you always think grass is always greener, you always compare yourself to other people, right? And you're like, why didn't I get this awards yet? Why why why I didn't get a shot to work with this amazing director that I always wanted to work with, right? And it's constantly why, why, why? And it's just there is no why. Life is just happens, and it's on you what you do with this, and the same with work. So, in this particular case, you know, Janusz Kaminsky gave me a shot because I like to think that we're friends, but what I saw was just unison of two great artists working together, and how it was like shared, and how each of them had a job to do, and how they complement each other, and how they just leave the freedom to one another to do whatever each one has to do on said, and how respectful it was. So I saw that working with a genius, which is Steven Spielberg, is what makes also a cinematographer great because he gives you a field to blossom, you know, and it takes two. It takes always another person, you can't do it this on your own. Like there is the the film set is not a game of ego and singularity. Like if two people complement each other, that's when the greatness is being achieved. And I just saw that greatness of someone that is so talented, so knowledgeable on both sides that it's just easy. Steven Spielberg had a chance to tell me this is how I want it to be done, and I want you to do it this way, right? And of course I would do whatever he says, but also he engages you to say, like, you know, what do you think? Like, you know, he actually wants to know. He wants to know, and he knows everything, so he has nothing to prove. And it was just really awesome, you know, to have that shot, and that's what changed my perspective, and also the fact that he is such a great artist and he knows exactly what to do. That when he gives a field for Janush to play, it's a really great field with really great pointers, um, and that is the map that you just follow.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

So amazing.

Work-Life Tradeoffs And Paying The Price

SPEAKER_02 40:58

I know it's a very tricky question. This profession is extremely hard when it comes to balancing, obviously, your career with your personal life. How is it for you?

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Oh, a total disaster. Obviously, balancing acting balance.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Sometimes I hear women that you can do it all, and I always feel like, so is it only me that can't get you know shit together in all these areas? So just it's a relief that some of us feel challenged in these areas too.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

It's like you tell me. I just I just really think that like all this thing on Instagram and in press and in all this, you know, blogging for women that you can have it all, and it's all about you, and and you you know, you just gotta be yourself, and it's such a BS to be honest. It's just no, you I mean, I would love if the world was designed like this that you can have it all, but I never succeed, and I don't think I know a single person in my life that has it all. It's either or, and every single person always wants something else. Every single person always thinks, like I already mentioned this grass is always greener. But with time I start realizing that grass is green where you water it, and where your focus goes, your attention goes, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:26

Well, you do amazing things, so your dreams come came true. What you are working with with the best you know, making history.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

The question is that you always have to ask yourself, and people just don't, is like how high of a price you want to pay for it, or how high of a price you are willing to pay for it, or how high of a price you are prepared to pay for it, and until you honestly going to answer this question, you shouldn't start, or you shouldn't go because you open yourself to the world of disappointment and the world of heartbreak, you know? So, like you have to understand that you pay price for everything in life, and if you're not going to answer this question or be prepared for it, you're gonna find yourself at the end of the life thinking, What the hell am I doing here? I am alone, and who am I sharing this with? Did you ask yourself that question years ago? No, hell no, because I didn't know that I have to ask that question because nobody tells you this in a school, and I just didn't have this kind of um you know support in my family that a conversation's about you know what it means to be a grown up and what is important. and in life um and what is the most important thing in life happened you know we've just we're all just figuring out like what it is and so it takes my it's my life work you know to find out what is important for me and what matters and what compromises I'm willing to do so what is your price as of right now what are the prices you feel you had to pay or you're still paying for this incredible career that you have well first of all when you are being in this body and in this situation you don't think that you have incredible career right because it's normal for you no it's just it's your life right so you don't see yourself you don't stand at least me in front of the mirror and it's like I'm great you know that you should you showed yeah you know I'm a baller that you are you just don't do that you just you just you and you just live and it's like oh today I have to do this you know like how I'm gonna do it you know and stuff like that so that's that's the first thing and then um but the price that I had to pay so far and I hope that you know there is way more I can do and what way more I can adjust is a family you know like I never created a family I just I didn't see it that way because I'm not coming from the family that it's like this is the most important thing you know and it's just like this is a core of existence you you know we are from Eastern Europe so it's like it's it's a different in family is of course very important but nobody talks about it like in America you know like in America everybody talks about a family to be core of existence and stuff like this so I just I always wanted to get out and I always wanted to do you know great things and just I was always very curious and um I just wanted to see the world and travel and and do beautiful stuff and I just didn't focus on that and I you know I got married when I was in my 30s very early and I had a 12 year marriage and it was great when it lasted and then the life got in a way like what got in a way just life got in a way like just you know people just don't communicate very well what's important for them what pains them mostly it's very very hard to really name your emotions and what you really need. You think that you need a certain thing but then this certain thing makes you unhappy right it's really really hard to really say deeply who you are and what you need. People create personas like I said before and you know people like to be seen a certain way and and it's very very hard to maintain a relationship in this line of work because you're just not there most of the yeah and you are on a film set somewhere like right now in Iceland and when you just you just travel that much you disconnect with people you know and every single time you go back home you have to do the work to connect again and it feels like you're starting over so it takes a lot of maturity and a lot of understanding to and and a person that is is very confident in themselves that outside factors are not going to shake them and there is not a lot of people like this you know in the world so um it sounds all great when you read about it in psychological books uh but reality is a little bit different.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Why do you think there is a difference again you know between sexes you see male cinematographers who have families who have children and it's not very common with female cinematographers why from my experience it's it's quite challenging to be with a strong woman right which this is how I'm being perceived and um I'm actually quite fragile and very sensitive but the way people see me is strength because that's my persona on set that's and it's that's also me.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

So there is this duality of extreme fragility and sensitivity and a strength. It's culturally um quite common in the way the world is built that a woman stays home with children and woman is a homemaker and man is an achiever and so when when this is reversed it's very hard for a man to stay home and wait for a woman um and and they just feel a little depleted very often and they feel like you know they they're being used or they feel like stay home husband and there is not a lot of men in the world that likes to feel that way you know but it's all in their head. Every single time I finish the movie I need this period of readjustments and it's very hard for partner to understand that it's not about them. It's about me loading my batteries and becoming myself again.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Also an interesting dynamic because let's say you are the let's say the roles are reversed reversed you are the the person who is the working person and there is somebody at home waiting for you well it also translates to finances right let's say you're the breadwinner and somebody is happy to to be at home and visit you on set and wait for you but then then what about like the financial dynamic we as women typically like to have a partner who is independent well what how would you feel about that how would it feel for you to have a partner that is fully committed but maybe you're the main breadwinner for for the family is how do how do you deal with that idea? Well I don't know because it never happened to me so like I would you be okay with that with having a partner that understands me no with having a partner that you know maybe doesn't make much money or the person who makes the most of it but they are there but they are you know they're waiting for you they understand you but but they don't have that that manly part that we typically like for men to have how would you would you be okay with that?

SPEAKER_01 51:21

Yeah I mean you know it depends on a person. It's like you know everybody contributes in different ways. So if somebody would really be okay with this and just contributes in the way that it's emotional support and you know but have their own world as well then of course as long as it works. But it's it's very hard for a person to send to find a sense of worthiness when they do not contribute financially especially being a male because this is how the culture is and to go over that threshold this boundary that we actually create ourselves is very very hard for people so you know yes it's all about a human connection always.

ASC Recognition And Building Sisterhood

SPEAKER_02 52:13

One of your amazing achievements is being a member of the American Society of Cinematographers I looked up the numbers and out of 800 people that ever had an honor to be accepted and to have the you know the letters attached to their name there are only 18 women which makes about 2% what did it mean for you how how does it feel and also what are the changes in the industry that you that you would want to see happen for more females to be as successful as you are um first of all it was a huge honor honor to um be asked to join um because I always looked up into it and it was on my vision board and I'm like this is something that I want to do and when that happened um it was awesome and on this vision board there is like a lot of things that I want to happen in life and they just they just happening and then you eventually realizes that dreams come true right James Bond is on the board right James Bond is on the board everybody knows James Bond is on the board I definitely would like to see more opportunities because that's all we're lacking um and just understanding that um you should do things when you're ready for it.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

Do not jump on a deep vast water when you don't know how to swim because you're only going to hurt yourself. And when this Doors for women opened recently there was a huge push of putting women on the list and it's a very very tricky subject to talk about and very sensitive because you know there is a lot of hate around it and every single time you say something wrong you know people just judge you terribly because everybody has an outlook on this particular subject but that um prevents us from having actual conversation that would make a change and the actual problem is that the opportunities are there but they are not for the women that need to go through all the steps right so when when this floodgates open you know women start getting a chance to do big stuff and then getting this big stuff and failing at it because they didn't have a training necessary training to get there and it's just giving the opportunities of letting them learn step by step and then they fail and everybody would say like oh look we let them try and look what happened they can't do it right so that's what I mean is that you have to understand that you need this knowledge and if if this is a technical knowledge or psychological knowledge or the strength whichever it is but you cannot go to work and cry on set because that's not gonna work you know that is going only to hurt us so you when you say opportunities you mean kind of groundwork from ground up step by step being involved literally in every step of uh you know movie set production all of that but but also mentorship mentorship like the creating programs of mentorship where you can learn from other women what it took to get there. Well you had such a good experience with actresses how what did you experience when women were not nice to each other when you didn't feel the support and what would it take to to change the dynamic if if we work against each other we are weaker you know and it's just it's also like very primal it's just competition you know so it's a competition and better you know and not understanding the lack of this actual something that I talked about this broness like we have to be a little bit more bros like a little more sis yeah a little bit more cis yeah I like that I like this a lot just creating this mentorships of like this is what it's going to get to get there are you ready for it maybe reconsider you know what I mean because then then there there is a lot of heartbreak being created well what if somebody doesn't want to reconsider what if what if you know what if it is knowing that there are prices to pay there are prices to pay everywhere there's a price to pay when you're a stay-at-home mom right and you look around and you look at your life you know and you have all these kids but then you have desires and dreams and maybe in a creative field maybe you wanted to be a sculptor maybe you wanted to paint but you kind of took care of your family how can we you know help everybody in in in just going forward together with this experience and with this experience well I can only share my experience and from my point of view and observations that I learned but I'm not a mother Teresa you know so it's just you know everybody has their own experience yeah but just have the kindness and understanding that even if you fail even if you're not the best human being every single day and like you don't have an understanding because you're exhausted and you fall on your knees and you know you you have nobody at home or you had a fight with your boyfriend or you're divorcing your husband like whatever it's happening is like you're just a human and just have understanding everybody makes mistakes everyone falls and just how you get back up it just shows what kind of person you are you know and if you have another sis or bro that gives you a hand to get back up and gives you another chance that's how you build community you know and that's how you mentor people that it's okay not to be perfect. We just need to create a bit more togetherness a bit more understanding and more sis more cis and also just kindness um for yourself I think because we are too hard on each other you know the the doors flat doors open a hundred years we had no rights you know like right now we have to suddenly adjust and do everything immediately you know be good at everything be good at everything like you gotta be a mother you gotta be a lover you gotta be this you gotta be that you like just chill just chill you know the one thing at a time one thing at a time one step at a time just you know just just be understanding it takes time and it just do not compare yourself because if you're gonna compare yourself oh this person has a family and career and this and that yeah well you know they just had a bigger lack um better family that taught them how to communicate you know not better family I use the wrong word but like more evolved family right that just knew how to do it I had to learn everything myself every single thing so it's just like that's why maybe I'm so behind in many other things is because I'm just learning right now what it

Learning To Be Kinder To Yourself

SPEAKER_01 59:58

means. Are you good to yourself? Oh no you know that's another thing that I'm learning like just you know on a day off why don't you just go and swim and go to the spa or whatever or have a good meal instead of reading another book answering the million emails that are just piled up there during the week of shoot you know so so so you know we need it but when it comes to yourself you're having a hard time giving it to yourself. Exactly I'm the person that's gonna tell you exactly how to do something um in professional environment but in when it goes to a personal life I just you know I get myself so busy that I don't see what's in front of me and that's my life work to just stop breathe take this breath and see like oh okay I got it and then just don't beat up yourself