What's The Scuttlebutt Podcast
Step into history with The What’s The Scuttlebutt Podcast (WTSPWWII), your go-to source for deep dives into the events, untold stories, and extraordinary individuals of World War II. In some episodes, we bring you firsthand accounts from veterans who served on the front lines, offering their personal experiences and unique perspectives on the realities of war. We also sit down with acclaimed authors who have dedicated their careers to uncovering hidden narratives and shedding light on lesser-known aspects of the conflict. But we don’t stop at books and battlefield accounts—we also explore the world of WWII cinema. From directors and producers to screenwriters, we talk with the creative minds behind the films that bring history to life on the big screen. For those who live history firsthand, we feature dedicated WWII reenactors who meticulously recreate battles, uniforms, and daily life from the era, offering an immersive glimpse into the past. Whether you’re a history enthusiast, a military buff, or simply fascinated by the human stories that emerged from this defining moment in history, WTSPWWII is your ultimate destination. Join us as we honor the past, celebrate the heroes, and preserve the legacy of World War II for generations to come.
What's The Scuttlebutt Podcast
From Weslaco to the Rooftop: The Oath That Honored a Generation
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What's up, everybody? Jeff Dennis and myself will be back with a new episode of the What's the Scotland podcast later this week. Due to the great success of the rooftop oath two weekends ago in San Antonio, we have a whole new batch of listeners, and so I thought they'd probably come to the website and check this out. So why not represent them with the episode that was in the basically the beginning of what became the rooftop oath? So for those of you who are new who discovered us in San Antonio, Texas, welcome to the show. That's my room with banging on the door. Don't worry about that. We're not being invaded. It's a Sunday. I got housework going on. But anyhow, without any further ado, welcome to the show. And here's the episode that was responsible for what became the rooftop. What became the rooftop of episode 280 of the What's the Scuttlebutt podcast? Thank you guys so much, and we'll talk to you all next week. What's up, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the What's the Scuttlebutt Podcast, your favorite World War II based podcast, and we have a good show for you tonight. But real quick before we get to that, I just want to remind y'all thank you for your continued support of the podcast. We are growing, we see it, we're getting the emails. You know, Dennis, I feel that sometimes we we forget the mail call. We don't mention it enough. We oftentimes forget it. And so we have new fans who don't know. If you want to reach out to us, send us an email. Mail call at wtsp WorldWar II.com. That's wtsp ww II.com. Send us anything. Thoughts, complaints, suggestions. Perhaps there's a topic like young Andrew here, which we're going to introduce shortly, who has something he wants to share. Something he says, hey, I got this really cool information. I know I can talk about it for an hour because I got a passion for it. Let me come on and share with the audience. We're like, what? An episode we don't have to do research. Come on down. You're the next contestant on what's the scallib but so if you are that way. Look, we've talked, Jeff and I have talked about it. One of the great things about living history of World War II is we cannot explain why little things bite onto us. I can't explain to you why I have 17 canteens in my garage, just a thing I like. I can't explain why I have seven in one helmets surrounding me. It's just a thing I like. Jeff loves planes. Dennis has his own thing, Andrew has his own thing. So if you have your own thing, bring it to the show. Email us at mail call at WTSPworldwar 2.com. And after you send that email, stay on our website or head over to our website, click on the Patreon link, sign up, and subscribe. At the end of this month, we're giving away this. See that yellow? And across the top of every single page, some poor intern at the publishing house had to stamp every single page with a rubber stamp that says not for resale. So we're going to give this away at the end of the month. All you have to do is be an active subscriber. Doesn't matter which tier, the dollar, the three dollar, the$750 a month. Sign up and subscribe at the end of the month. All active subscribers except for the person who won last time, because that wouldn't be fair, is entered in to win this book, and we'll send you some stickers as well. And last plug, youtube.com d410 media. You can find our content. We just we're slowly uploading video shortened video versions of our podcast so you guys can see who we're talking to. And without any further ado, Dennis, why don't you take it away?
SPEAKER_02Sure. You know, exactly what you were talking about. The please send in your emails, messages. Like we want to know what's on your mind. And um the the guest we have tonight is a direct result of that that that call out, you know. And um one thing that we're all very passionate about as historians and you know impressionists of World War II is making sure that and one thing I really enjoy is that we all have the same mindset on this, all three of us, is making sure that we're we're doing everything we can to bring along the next generation of historians who are in their 20s and early 30s, who are um just as passionate and they've got subjects that they've latched onto. So um we we don't want the the history to disappear, and the young man we're having tonight is gonna make sure that one facet of that is definitely not gonna be disappear. And and one uh it's such a unique story, and I'm really excited about it. It's actually uh takes place uh just south of me. And um so I got to talk to Andrew and on the phone. We had a nice conversation that night, and I was super impressed. Uh, this is a young man who has done his homework, and you are gonna see that tonight. So uh Andrew, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for uh absolutely and uh Don and Dennis. I can't thank you enough for letting me hop on tonight. It's been it's an honor to be on your podcast. Uh any, I'm sure, avid World War II fan um listens to this. I know I'm guilty of it. Sometimes at work when I got a slow or busy day, I turn this on and I listen to it. It makes a day go by faster, and you guys have a wide range of topics um that it never gets old. So thank you very much.
SPEAKER_03Well, I greatly appreciate that, and we appreciate you coming on. Um you know the format. So before we get into the topic, why don't you explain to our audience how you kind of got bit by the history bug and how this particular topic found its way to you and what drove you to find out more information to lead you to where we are today?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um, so I grew up on a seven-generation family farm uh in the lower peninsula of Michigan. Um and ever since I was a kid, I don't know if people would let their kids do this now, but my dad was a very big history fan. Um, and uh my vacations were never to the beach or you know, all that. We were tromping Civil War battlefields um when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_03And then it just a Michigan can only go to Cedar Point so many times.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and uh it was oh I mean, I'd probably been to Gettysburg probably 20 times or more. Um, and I just I was bit by that, by that bug at an early age. My first movies that I watched when I was a kid, uh Saving Private Ryan, the Patriot, you know, it's like I don't know about today, but um it was it was uh I mean I really enjoyed that stuff. And so I remember, you know, my entrance as a kid was Band of Brothers, and you like saving Private Ryan, you know. So all I knew was the uh the European theater. My great-grandfather served uh with an ordnance company in Europe. I never got to meet him, but he died about 38 years before I was born. So my dad never knew him, but we had a box of his stuff growing up. It was all of his war medals. He he he had PTSD when he got out of the war, kind of rough life, and uh and it doesn't take away from what he did, but you know, his stuff was pushed to the side, and my dad, like I said, was big into history, so he got that stuff, and um we we reconnected with that side of the family, um, and just we had all of his war letters and it showed what kind of person he was, uh just a down-to-earth oldest of 13 type guy, and um just uh just a great story. And so where I got into this was um when the Pacific miniseries came out, which I know you guys are well versed on with Mr. Sledge coming being a part of your show and whatnot. But um when that came out, I was like, you know, there's another side of this war here. And uh so I looked for everything Pacific related. I was in the sixth grade at the time, and uh Flags of Our Fathers came across my radar, and uh I instantly was infatuated with that story, and just uh James Bradley did a fantastic job um getting you know to know the the key characters there and whatnot. And I couldn't tell you what got me to Harlan Block, uh the figure at the far end base of the pole, but uh he uh he grew up on a farm like I did. He played football. I'm a big football guy, played in high school, and um it was a small, smaller town in Texas um from what my research states, and uh I grew up in a very small town. I graduated with 57 kids, and so we we had a connection like that. And so um that I would say, the long story short, that I just I saw a lot of similarities there. And I always wanted to write a book about him. I don't I couldn't tell you why, because you know, there's been a lot written on the subject. Um, but you know, there's been some changes in the flag raising picture and whatnot. But at the end, to cap this all off, during the pandemic, um my cousin was working down in Corpus Christi as a welding inspector, and I was home from Michigan State University, and uh my aunt and myself and went to visit him, and they took me down to Weslico in February of 2021. And I keep I kept seeing these eight guys everywhere that um everywhere I went, and I'm like, I want to know about these eight teammates here, and so that's what led me to this story.
SPEAKER_03I think it's a perfect segue to go right into the story that you sent us the um beautifully presented PowerPoint, and I'm gonna figure out a way to put that up on our website where people can watch it in real time instead of downloading the Yeah, and so and and if we want to have a discussion about it too, it like I said, I I'm good with whatever.
SPEAKER_01Um, but the picture here, this it's titled the West of Kuwait, and we'll dive into why they were called that, you know, from their hometown. But um, they were eight high school football teammates that joined the Marines together uh during World War II. So uh this picture here obviously is Texas, and Dennis is from there. So if I say anything wrong, I wasn't born in Texas, so I if I make a mistake, let me know. Um, but uh West Lakote, Texas was is located right down at the base there, uh, in what they call the Rio Grande Valley of Texas. It was founded in 1919 and by 1940 had a population of nearly 7,000. Um, and a lot of these guys that we're about to talk to, talk about here, they didn't grow up there. Well, they grew up there, but they weren't born there. They kind of migrated there um from the 1920s after the depression into that area. It was very heavily agriculture, um, and uh especially like citrus, cotton, and cattle were some of the big three. Uh, and I can't thank the West Lako Museum enough. They've they've really have supported this project, and I've asked thousands. I'm sure you guys, you're all involved in the history world. I've asked thousands upon thousands of questions, and they always respond. Um, so I appreciate that. So we're, yep, next slide. And so we'll introduce you to the to the eight really quick and I'll make it short and sweet. But um, this guy here, Edward Pete Hall, he was the not the oldest of the eight, but he was in terms of school, he was a year ahead of the rest of these guys. So he had graduated the year before, um, in 1942. And he, if I'm not sure if you guys have a football background, but he was uh offensive lineman and he was a co-captain on the team before. Um, but their team wasn't very good. Their team, they were in a rebuilding season, and uh they only won two games, and one of the teams that they played was uh Mission, Texas, and the quarterback was Tom Landry. Wow, oh wow, and beat they he beat them pretty bad. He was a good player, which we probably know now.
SPEAKER_03Um, by all accounts, not to interrupt you, but by all accounts, was football at the level because we all know of West Texas football and a love for football, but back in the 20s and 30s, was it even higher held esteem because of lack of entertainment around, or was it just kind of growing in its fanaticism throughout Texas at that time?
SPEAKER_01That's what I I mean, that's what I've come to the conclusion. I mean, I wrote a small little book about my high school football team um back in the day, and it was, and I was surprised at how well the newspapers covered this. Um, I can tell you right now that if it wasn't for newspapers.com, I wouldn't have found any of this. Um, they have the box scores, the game by game, who scored touchdowns. Uh it was insane. I I could not believe it.
SPEAKER_02Um it was huge back in those days. Yeah, even on my grandpa's ship, I've got letters from uh Byron Yarbrough and Leo Baddell, the two officers going back and forth about the SEC, the uh you know, who's better, Auburn, you know, Ohio State, you know. So yeah, it was it was huge.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and uh when they found out when Pearl Harbor happened, these guys were at a Texas football game. Um on December 7th, 1941. They did an annual, from what I learned, they did an annual trip to Texas Stadium up there. Um, and I believe it was an or Texas versus Oregon. I'd have to go back through my book there, but uh they they were at the game when they found out that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.
SPEAKER_02So now he's the oldest of seven. Did he did uh did Ryan?
SPEAKER_03Did he have any we haven't gotten into Ryan yet? We we he introduced the first slide. We're just the he's getting ready to introduce Ryan now.
SPEAKER_01Yep, and so Leo Ryan here, yep, he was the oldest of seven sons. Um he did have a brother that was still alive during my interview process, and I did get a receive a letter from him um about just you know some brief information. He he has since passed. Um, but uh yeah, Leo was from Oklahoma. He might, like I said, he was one of the many that migrated south um to West Texas. So, yep, we're good there. Uh, of course, the the one of the famous ones here, Harlan Black, um, he was born in Yorktown, Texas, which is in DeWitt County. Um, he moved to the McAllen, West of Co. area when he was an infant. And I'm sure if you've read Flags of Our Fathers, he grew up in a very strict Seventh-day Adventist um home. Um, his mother was very serious about the religion there. And he he went to Valley Grande Academy up until he was a sophomore when he was expelled. Um, because from all accounts, he wouldn't rat out on who vandalled the local outhouse. Um, so he transferred to West Laco High School as a junior, never played sports before, and um he earned honorable mention all valley as a as a junior um and made a few key plays in his junior season. So uh he had a pretty good I mean he was it sounds like a natural athlete.
SPEAKER_02Hey, I wanted to ask you um about him. Um now Desmond Doss, he was a Seventh-day Adventist, wasn't he? Yep, yep. Now, but Harlan Bloch, he's going on and he's in an uh, you know, the you're saying his his parents were mom was very so how how is he reconciling being a Marine Corps parachute, you know, parachutes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so um from what from what I've thought about too, I think it was um that his buddies all went in together, I think was what I found out. Um unfortunately I haven't been able to really interview many of Harlan's family. Um, and I don't want to go against anything that they that they may know, um, but I think a lot of it, if I had to guess, you know, all of his best friends were going in. And so I think that's probably my guess.
SPEAKER_02That was more of his mom's mom's religion than his.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think all the kids were, from what I've understood. I think because he was the third of six, I I know for a fact that um one of his brothers did graduate from Westlico and played football, one of his younger brothers, but I think the rest of them all went to graduated from the aventist school.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think we can all kind of take from our own life experiences you can go to any church and pick 15 people, and all 15 of them will have a different level of their version of religion and how they're going to participate in in that religion's guidelines and how seriously. Yeah, but that's a that that's that's unique though, because that's a that's a cult.
SPEAKER_02We would, you know, consider that a cult.
SPEAKER_01And I sh and I should, I don't mean to interrupt, but I should say too, um, I did have, and it's in my files over here too. Um, I did interview like a distant cousin of his, and I believe Harlan's dad was a conscientious objector in the first world war. Um I believe that he uh he went in because he worked in the medical corps. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So that's what he checks out because that's what Doss did.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Sorry for no, no, that's great. Great discussion. Um, and so uh next we have Glenn Cleckler, who we'll refer to a lot. Um, he moved to Westlico as a child as well and grew up on a farm. Um, he was a three-year varsity player, and I'm sure if you guys know um what I mean, that's pretty pretty big when it comes to sports. Mostly you're guaranteed two years on varsity. Um, but Cleckler was a three-year player, and he he was very well known um in school. The school had a local newspaper as well, and he's mentioned in there constantly. I mean, just a well-rounded guy. Um, great family, too. I've been able to interview his family a lot, and they're super people.
SPEAKER_03So now it may be this photo, but is he one of the few out of the group of that area of Texas that may have a little uh Hispanic in his in his family lineage, or is it just this photo gives him that appearance?
SPEAKER_01I think it's just this photo. Um he uh uh his parents were from Alabama. Okay. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, it would have made sense with the geographical location of the the um and then Carl Sims.
SPEAKER_01Um he he was one he has a pretty unique story too, and he's got an awesome family. His daughter and grandson have helped me with this a lot. Um they uh Carl had never played sports before. Um and as you can see, he was he excelled at the arts. He was very big in choir and band. And in the newspapers, I found out that he he had been chosen from the valley as one of their top um artists or you know whatnot. And forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm not I'm not into the I'm learning the arts through this project. So um, but uh he was very good at that. And uh the coach Osborne Little looked at him and like this guy could be an athlete, and so he joined the team as a senior and it ended up paying off.
SPEAKER_03Well, you gotta keep in mind too at the time and even through the 60s, I mean, every adult in my family now, um, all my family, my parents, my aunts, my uh uncles, they were all musicians. And back to this particular time in the in the 30s and 40s and even in the 20s, um having a skill, an orchestra, a brass band was a potential way to support your family. You know, we they we didn't have computers to generate music. Radio was a new thing, and so you can get a gig jingles, you could play at the local orchestra. So playing learning an instrument was a a reasonable expectation to at least have a medium-level class um vocation at the time, and so um there were a tremendous amount of people who learned those skills, and sadly, you know, now it's a struggle to keep um music departments going in schools these days. But back then it was typing and music. That was, you know, typing music or working with your hands. That's how you're gonna possibly find a job outside of farming and uh coal mining back in those days.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it's funny you mentioned that because his job in the off-season was working for the Rio Grande Valley Radio. So that was his that was his job before going into the service. So, yep, that we're good here. Um, and then we got Leo Leduc. Um, Leo Leo was another one who uh his family was part of the early settlers in West Lakoa and he was vice president of the class, vice president of the athletic club, voted, I wrote their most handsomest in his class, um, very well known as well in his in his class out, and his family too is phenomenal. And I I just I like to give the family shout out because, like I said, I've asked numerous questions and they were so eager to help me. And his family actually supplied a lot of these photos that are throughout here.
SPEAKER_03So um and this is a great photo. This is one of those photos that just goes to show, and I've said this on some of my podcasts, when it comes to fashion and style, those are the two industries that just rotate every 10, 15 years. And if you were to put this in color, H put an HD Instagram filter on it, with that, you know, because that hairstyle, it's starting to die out again, but it came back for a while a couple years ago, and I still have that now because of my living history. But you put a color Instagram filter on this, and this could easily pass as somebody's high school photo from two years ago. Ago. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then we got Robert Souter here. Robert's family also was great with this, but he was born on December 6, 1924. And I want you to, at the bottom, you'll see his brother, uh James Frederick Souter was killed or listed as missing in action on the USS Arizona on December 7th. So the day after his brother's birthday, which I'm sure installed a little bit of drive into him as the war wore on. He was an excellent track athlete as well. He was a mile, mile relay guy, uh ran the four so the 400. Back then it was the 440. But uh yeah, he was he was a good athlete as well.
SPEAKER_03Running a 440 and Chuck Taylor All-Stars. No art support.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I know. Go ahead, Dennis. How did his uh have you talked to his family at all? Yep, yep. How how did his parents feel about him going into the Marine Corps? I mean, was there any other kids in the family?
SPEAKER_01Nope. Uh there was just the two he was the youngest of two sons, and I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_02I know his dad's terrified.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, his dad died um around the time that he went in, I think shortly before. So brother went, then dad went, and then he went, or he joined up. So it was, I mean, and his mom, I believe, remarried. So um it was quite a process. But um, he also one thing that Weslico had at the time was they were in a cooperative called Texan, and Bob was an employee of that when he was a kid as well.
SPEAKER_02I saw that his brother was a radio man uh third class on board there.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And then this is the youngest of the Weslico 8 um BR guess. He's another three-year varsity player um and just a phenomenal athlete. He was known as Silent Guess, it seems to me, like he was somebody that uh you know didn't he just did what he was told. Um his his daughter and son um have helped a lot with this project as well. And so they uh it this guy here was the stud of the football. They were all good at it, they were all fantastic athletes, all of these eight guys, but this guy here um he was all over the newspaper, and we'll chat about that here on the next slide. Um so the 1942 football season, um seven or six of the seven seniors. Um, this is their final year. Harlan Block is in the back row, second from the left, um, right next to Glenn Cleckler. Uh a lot, the only one missing in here is Carl Sims, but uh they were pr they were predicted to have an average season. Um, and uh they they flipped their record around um going into the season. But I will mention too, number 81 in the front row. I was just looking at 81. He's got a stellar pencil mustache. Yeah. Uh he uh he was a starter. His name was Joe Garza. And I will mention too, because I probably won't get to it later, but a lot of these guys went into, I mean, as we know, went into the service after they graduated. Um and a lot of them followed the Marines because of what the eight will do. Um but uh number 81 actually joined the air corps and he went down in March, I believe, of 1944. He was killed as well. So um Joe Garza was his name. But he was a grade below these other fellas. So um, but yeah, next slide.
SPEAKER_03Looking at this entire group and knowing that, you know, eight, probably possibly a few more that you know went to different services, but eight of these cats went on to serve and to fight. Number 85, he looks like he definitely looks like he's either came out of the freshman class or like one of the youngest ones. I mean, you look at these guys, you look at these in this group, and a lot of them look like you know, older, older, younger teens and young adults, but eight eighty-five really drives home the point of the age of these of this group when this photo was taken.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Yep. They probably all went in, don't you think? I mean, they're the the prime, they're in the fit of the fittest, and yeah, yep.
SPEAKER_01I can tell you too, um, we talked about Leo Ryan and being the oldest of seven kids. The guy in the back row um next to Harlan Black, so it'd be to our left. So he'd be the first from the left in the back row. Um, that is Kenneth Ryan. Kenneth Ryan was Leo's youngest brother. They were about a year apart. Um, his interview is on the National Museum of the Pacific War website. Wow. His name is and uh he specifically wrote in there that the main reason why he joined the Marines was because of what those eight guys did. Wow. And he he was on Iwo Jima as well. Wow. He was a part of the uh joint assault signal corps, but so here's the starting lineup, and we won't talk too much about this, but um the just to point out where the eight guy or seven of the eight guys are. Um the left tackle is Bob Suter, the right guard is Leo Leduc, the right uh right end is Leo Ryan, quarterback is BR guest, fullback Harlan Block, and then the two halfbacks are Glenn Kleckler and Carl Sims. Um so seven of all seven started that year.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01And then this is their results. They went 6-2-1, and they had seven shutouts. So if, like I said, football, um, that means their defense went seven games without allowing a single touchdown. Wow. And one of and two of those, and the two games that they did, they lost. So um every other game, whether they tied or they won, they did not allow a single point scored on them. And by the end of the year, um, this is BR guest running the ball. Um he scored 17 rushing touchdowns through for about three or four, um, and he earned a spot on the All-Valley team as the top one of the top players in the league. Wow. Um, and this pitcher, and it's kind of hard to tell, but if you can see in the back, I mean it looks like the crowd is just packed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You can see that. And this is crowd, you know, sitting and standing on the field, and then maybe a few. It's not like that you had a huge rack of bleachers back then. But yeah, it's it's very uh filled in.
SPEAKER_01And it was their armistice game, so that would have been game eight at Donna when they lost six to nineteen. That was their, you know, every year they and even in our school, they had the local November 11th game. And uh, so this was their game, and uh, they played the local Donna rivals and lost. But uh yeah, they were 6-2-1 and totally flipped that record around because it was the opposite the year before. And so uh January 1943, um, and the dates differ. I've I have done my best on research, and um, like I said, I've interviewed a lot of the families. Five of the eight families have um, you know, and their parents really did not talk about what happened after the or during or after the war. So um Glenn Kleckler was the one that lived the longest, and I won't get into too, you know, try and go out the rabbit hole here, but uh he uh his interview he was interviewed by the National Museum of the Pacific War as well, and he came up with the story that um in January 1943, it was about the first war from what he said, the first warmest day since the winner of.