"The Weslaco Eight: A Snapshot in Time with Andrew Booher"

Podcast Episode 2008

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Digital Fortin Media proudly presents the What's the Scuttle Butt Podcast with your hosts, Don Abernathy, Jeff Copsetta, and Dennis Blocker.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

What's up, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the What's the Scuttlebutt Podcast, your favorite World War II based podcast, and we have a good show for you tonight. But real quick before we get to that, I just want to remind y'all thank you for your continued support of the podcast. We are growing, we see it, we're getting the emails. You know, Dennis, I feel that sometimes we we forget the mail call, we don't mention it enough. We oftentimes forget it. And so we have new fans who don't know. If you want to reach out to us, send us an email. Mail call at WTSPworldwar 2.com. That's wtspwii.com. Send us anything. Thoughts, complaints, suggestions. Perhaps there's a topic like young Andrew here, which we're going to introduce shortly. Who has something he wants to share? Something he says, hey, I got this really cool information. I know I can talk about it for an hour because I got a passion for it. Let me come on and share with the audience. Or like, what? An episode we don't have to do research. Come on down. You're the next contestant on what's the scallibutt. So if you are that way, look, we've talked Jeff and I have talked about it. One of the great things about living history of World War II is we cannot explain why little things bite onto us. I can't explain to you why I have 17 canteens in my garage, just a thing I like. I can't explain why I have seven M1 helmets surrounding me. It's just a thing I like. Jeff loves planes. Dennis has his own thing. Andrew has his own thing. So if you have your own thing, bring it to the show. Email us at mail call at WTSPworldwar 2.com. And after you send that email, stay on our website or head over to our website, click on the Patreon link, sign up, and subscribe. At the end of this month, we're giving away this. See that yellow scrub? And across the top of every single page, some poor intern at the publishing house had to stamp every single page with a rubber stamp that says not for resale. So we're going to give this away at the end of the month. All you have to do is be an active subscriber. Doesn't matter which tier, the dollar, the three dollar, the$750 a month. Sign up and subscribe at the end of the month. All active subscribers except for the person who won last time, because that wouldn't be fair, is entered in to win this book, and we'll send you some stickers as well. And last plug, youtube.com d410 media. You can find our content. We just we're slowly uploading video, shortened video versions of our podcast so you guys can see who we're talking to. And without any further ado, Dennis, why don't you take it away?

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Yeah, sure. You know, exactly what you were talking about. The please send in your emails, messages. Like we want to know what's on your mind. And um the the guests we have tonight is a direct result of that that that call out, you know. And um one thing that we're all very passionate about as historians and you know impressionists of World War II is making sure that and one thing I really enjoy is that we all have the same mindset on this, all three of us, is making sure that we're we're doing everything we can to bring along the next generation of historians who are in their 20s and early 30s, who are um just as passionate and they've got subjects that they've latched on to. So um we we don't want the the history to disappear, and the young man we're having tonight is gonna make sure that one facet of that is definitely not gonna be disappear. And and one uh it's such a unique story, and I'm really excited about it. It actually uh takes place uh just south of me. And um, so I got to talk to Andrew and on the phone. We had a nice conversation that night, and I was super impressed. Yeah, this is a young man who has done his homework, and you are gonna see that tonight. So uh Andrew, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Thank you so much for uh absolutely and uh Don and Dennis. I can't thank you enough for letting me hop on tonight. It's been it's an honor to be on your podcast. Uh any, I'm sure, avid World War II fan um listens to this. I know I'm guilty of it sometimes at work when I got a slow or busy day. I turn this on and I listen to it. It makes a day go by faster, and you guys have a wide range of topics um that it never gets old. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Well, I greatly appreciate that, and we appreciate you coming on. Um, you know the format. So before we get into the topic, why don't you explain to our audience how you kind of got bit by the history bug and how this particular topic found its way to you and what drove you to find out more information to lead you to where we are today?

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Absolutely. Um, so I grew up on a seven-generation family farm uh in the lower peninsula of Michigan. Um, and ever since I was a kid, I don't know if people would let their kids do this now, but my dad was a very big history fan. Um, and uh my vacations were never to the beach or you know, all that. We were Trump and Civil War battlefields um when I was a kid.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

And then it just a Michiganer can only go to Cedar Point so many times.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and uh it was oh I mean, I probably been to Gettysburg probably 20 times or more. Um, and I just I was bit by that by that bug at an early age. My first movies that I watched when I was a kid, uh Saving Private Ryan, the Patriot, you know, it's like I don't know about today, but um it was it was uh I mean I really enjoyed that stuff. And so I remember, you know, my entrance as a kid was Band of Brothers, and you like saving Private Ryan, you know. So all I knew was the uh the European theater. My great-grandfather served uh with an ordinance company in Europe. I never got to meet him, but he died about 38 years before I was born. So my dad never knew him, but we had a box of his stuff growing up. It was all of his war medals. He he he had PTSD when he got out of the war, kind of rough life, and uh, and it doesn't take away from what he did, but you know, his stuff was pushed to the side, and my dad, like I said, was big into history, so he got that stuff, and um we we reconnected with that side of the family, um, and just we had all of his war letters and it showed what kind of person he was, uh, just a down-to-earth oldest of 13 type guy, and um just uh just a great story. And so where I got into this was um when the Pacific miniseries came out, which I know you guys are well versed on with Mr. Sledge coming being a part of your show and whatnot. But um when that came out, I was like, you know, there's another side of this war here, and uh so I looked for everything Pacific related. I was in the sixth grade at the time, and uh Flags of Our Fathers came across my radar, and uh I instantly was infatuated with that story, and just uh James Bradley did a fantastic job um getting you know to know the the key characters there and whatnot. And I couldn't tell you what got me to Harlan Block, uh the figure at the far end base of the pole, but uh he uh he grew up on a farm like I did. He played football. I'm a big football guy, played in high school, and um it was a small, small lure town in Texas um from what my research states, and uh I grew up in a very small town. I graduated with 57 kids, and so we we had a connection like that. And so um that I would say, the long story short, that I just I saw a lot of similarities there. And I always wanted to write a book about him. I don't I couldn't tell you why, because you know, there's been a lot written on the subject. Um, but you know, there's been some changes in the flag raising picture and whatnot. But at the end, to cap this all off, during the pandemic, um my cousin was working down in Corpus Christi as a welding inspector, and I was home from Michigan State University, and uh my aunt and myself and went to visit him, and they took me down to Westlico in February of 2021, and I keep I kept seeing these eight guys everywhere that um everywhere I went, and I'm like, I want to know about these eight teammates here, and so that's what led me to this story.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

I think it's a perfect segue to go right into the story that you sent us the um beautifully presented PowerPoint, and I'm gonna figure out a way to put that up on our website where people can watch in real time instead of downloading the Yeah, and so and and if we want to have a discussion about it too, it like I said, I I'm good with whatever.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Um, but the picture here, this it's titled the West of Kuwait, and we'll dive into why they were called that, you know, from their hometown. But um, they were eight high school football teammates that joined the Marines together uh during World War II. So uh this picture here obviously is Texas, and Dennis is from there. So if I say anything wrong, I wasn't born in Texas, so I if I make a mistake, let me know. Um, but uh West Coast, Texas was is located right down at the base there, uh, in what they call the Rio Grande Valley of Texas. It was founded in 1919, and by 1940 had a population of nearly 7,000. Um, and a lot of these guys that we're about to talk to, talk about here, they didn't grow up there. Well, they grew up there, but they weren't born there. They kind of migrated there um from the 1920s after the depression into that area. It was very heavily agriculture, um, and uh especially like citrus, cotton, and cattle were some of the big three. Uh, and I can't thank the West Laco Museum enough. They've they've really have supported this project, and I've asked thousands. I'm sure you guys, you're all involved in the history world. I've asked thousands upon thousands of questions, and they always respond. Um, so I appreciate that. So we're, yep, next slide. And so we'll introduce you to the to the eight really quick and I'll make it short and sweet. But um, this guy here, Edward Pete Hall, he was the not the oldest of the eight, but he was in terms of school, he was a year ahead of the rest of these guys. So he had graduated the year before, um, in 1942. And he, if I'm not sure if you guys have a football background, but he was a offensive lineman and he was a co-captain on the team before. Um, but their team wasn't very good. Their team, they were in a rebuilding season, and uh they only won two games, and one of the teams that they played was uh Mission, Texas, and the quarterback was Tom Landry. Wow, oh wow and beat they he beat them pretty bad. He was a good player, which we probably know now.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Um, by all accounts, not to interrupt you, but by all accounts, was football at the level, because we all know of West Texas football and a love for football, but back in the 20s and 30s, was it even higher held esteem because of lack of entertainment around, or was it just kind of growing in its fanaticism throughout Texas at that time?

SPEAKER_01 11:33

That's what I I mean, that's what I've come to the conclusion. I mean, I wrote a small little book about my high school football team um back in the day, and it was, and I was surprised at how well the newspapers covered this. Um, I can tell you right now that if it wasn't for newspapers.com, I wouldn't have found any of this. Um, they have the box scores, the game by game, who scored touchdowns. Uh it was insane. I I could not believe it.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Um it was huge back in those days. Yeah, even on my grandpa's ship, I've got letters from uh Byron Yarbrough and Leo Bidell, the two officers going back and forth about the SEC, the uh you know, who's better? Auburn, you know, Ohio State, you know. So yeah, it was it was huge.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, and uh when they found out when Pearl Harbor happened, these guys were at a Texas football game. Um on December 7th, 1941. They did an annual, from what I learned, they did an annual trip to Texas Stadium up there. Um, and I believe it was an or Texas versus Oregon. I'd have to go back through my book there, but uh they they were at the game when they found out that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

So now he's the oldest of seven. Did he did uh did Ryan?

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Did he have any we haven't gotten into Ryan yet? We we he introduced the first slide. We're just that he's getting ready to introduce Ryan now.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yep, and so Leo Ryan here, yep, he was the oldest of seven sons. Um he did have a brother that was still alive during my interview process, and I did get a receive a letter from him um about just you know some brief information. He he has since passed. Um, but uh yeah, Leo was from Oklahoma. He might, like I said, he was one of the many that migrated south um to West Texas. So, yep, we're good there. Uh, of course, the the one of the famous ones here, Harlan Black, um, he was born in Yorktown, Texas, which is in DeWitt County. Um, he moved to the McAllen, West of Co. area when he was an infant. And I'm sure if you've read Flags of Our Fathers, he grew up in a very strict Seventh-day Adventist um home. Um, his mother was very serious about the religion there. And he he went to Valley Grande Academy in dirt up until he was a sophomore when he was expelled. Um, because from all accounts, he wouldn't rat out on who vandal the local outhouse. Um, so he transferred to Wesleco High School as a junior, never played sports before, and um he earned honorable mention all valley as a as a junior um and made a few key plays in his junior season. So uh he had a pretty good I mean he was it sounds like a natural athlete.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

Hey, I wanted to ask you um about him. Um now Desmond Doss, he was uh Seventh-day Adventist, wasn't he? Yep, yep. Now now but Harlan Block, he's going on and he's in an uh, you know, the you're saying his his parents were mom was very so how how is he reconciling being a Marine Corps parachute, you know, parachutes.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah, and so um from what from what I've thought about too, I think it was um that his buddies all went in together, I think was what I found out. Um unfortunately I haven't been able to really interview many of Harlan's family. Um, and I don't want to go against anything that they that they may know, um, but I think a lot of it, if I had to guess, you know, all of his best friends were going in. And so I think that's probably my guess.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

That was more of his mom's mom's religion than his.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Yeah, and I think all the kids were, from what I've understood. I think because he was the third of six, I I know for a fact that um one of his brothers did graduate from West Lico and played football, one of his younger brothers, but I think the rest of them all went to graduated from the advocate school.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Well, I think we can all kind of take from our own life experiences you can go to any church and pick 15 people, and all 15 of them will have a different level of their version of religion and how they're going to participate in in that religion's guidelines and how seriously.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Yeah, but that's a that that's that's unique though, because that's a that's a cult. We would, you know, consider that a cult.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

And I sh and I should, I don't mean to interrupt, but I should say too, um, I did have, and it's in my files over here too. Um, I did interview like a distant cousin of his, and I believe Harlan's dad was a conscientious objector in the first world war. Um I believe that he uh he went in because he worked in the medical corps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

So that's that checks out because that's what Doss did.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yep. Sorry for no, no, that's great. Great discussion. Um, and so uh next we have Glenn Cleckler, who we'll refer to a lot. Um he moved to Westlico as a child as well and grew up on a farm. Um, he was a three-year varsity player, and I'm sure if you guys know um what I mean, that's pretty pretty big when it comes to sports. Mostly you're guaranteed two years on varsity. Um, but Cleckler was a three-year player, and he he was very well known um in school. The school had a local newspaper as well, and he's mentioned in there constantly. I mean, just a well-rounded guy. Um, great family, too. I've been able to interview his family a lot, and they're super people.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

So now it may be this photo, but is he one of the few out of the group of that area of Texas that may have a little uh Hispanic in his in his family lineage, or is it just this photo? Gives him that appearance.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

I think it's just this photo. Um, he uh uh his parents were from Alabama. Okay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

I mean it would have made sense with the geographical location of the town and all.

unknown 17:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Um, and then Carl Sims, um, he he was one he has a pretty unique story too, and he's got an awesome family. His daughter and grandson have helped me with this a lot. Um they uh Carl had never played sports before. Um, and as you can see, he was he excelled at the arts. He was very big in choir and band. And in the newspapers, I found out that he he had been chosen from the valley as one of their top um artists, or you know, whatnot. And forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm not I'm not into the I'm learning the arts through this project. So um, but uh he was very good at that. And uh the coach Osborne Little looked at him and like this guy could be an athlete, and so he joined the team as a senior and it ended up paying off.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Well, you got to keep in mind too at the time, and even through the 60s, I mean, every adult in my family now, um, all my fam my parents, my aunts, my uh uncles, they were all musicians. And back to this p particular time in the in the 30s and 40s and even in the 20s, um, having a skill, an orchestra, a brass band was a potential way to support your family. You know, we they we didn't have computers to generate music. Radio was a new thing, and so you can get a gig jingles, you could play at the local orchestra. So playing learning an instrument was a a reasonable expectation to at least have a medium-level class um vocation at the time, and so um there were a tremendous amount of people who learned those skills, and sadly, you know, now it's a struggle to keep um music departments going in schools these days. But back then it was typing and music. That was, you know, typing music or working with your hands. That's how you're gonna possibly find a job outside of farming and uh coal mining back in those days.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Well, and it's funny you mentioned that because his job in the off season was working for the Rio Grande Valley Radio. So that was his that was his job before going into the service. So, yep, then we're good here. Um, and then we got Leo Leduc. Um Leo, Leo was another one who uh his family was part of the early settlers in West Lakoan. He was vice president of the class, vice president of the athletic club, voted, I wrote their most handsomest in his class, um, very well known as well in his in his class. And his family too is phenomenal. And I I just I like to give the family shout out because, like I said, I've asked numerous questions and they were so eager to help me. And his family actually supplied a lot of these photos that are throughout here. So um and this is a great photo.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

This is one of those photos that just goes to show, and I've said this on some of my podcasts, when it comes to fashion and style, those are the two industries that just rotate every 10, 15 years. And if you were to put this in color, put a HD Instagram filter on it, with that, you know, because that hairstyle, it's starting to die out again, but it came back for a while a couple years ago, and I still have that now because of my living history. But you put a color Instagram filter on this, and this could easily pass as somebody's high school photo from two years ago. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

And then we got Robert Souter here. Um, Robert's family also was great with this, but he was born on December 6th, 1924. And I want you to, at the bottom, you'll see his brother, uh James Frederick Suter was killed or listed as missing in action on the USS Arizona on December 7th, so the day after his brother's birthday, um, which I'm sure installed a little bit of drive into him as the war wore on. Um, he was an excellent track athlete as well. Um, he he was a mile mile relay guy, uh, ran the four so the four hundred back then it was the four forty. Um, but uh yeah, he was he was a good athlete as well.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Running a four forty and Chuck Taylor All Stars. No hard support.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Oh, Dennis. How did he? uh have you talked to his family at all? Yep. Yep. How did his parents feel about him going into the Marine Corps? I mean, was there any other kids in the family?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Nope. Uh there was just the two he was the youngest of two sons, and I'm not sure I know his dad. Yeah, his dad died um around the time that he went in, I think shortly before so brother went, then dad went and then he went or he joined up. So it was I mean and his mom I believe remarried. So um it was quite a process. But um he also one thing that Weslico had at the time was they were in a cooperative called Texan and Bob was an employee of that when he was a kid as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

I saw that his brother was a radio man on board there.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yep. And then this is the youngest of the Weslico eight um BR guess he's another three-year varsity player um and just a phenomenal athlete he was known as silent guess it seems to me like he was somebody that uh you know didn't he just did what he was told um his his daughter and son um have helped a lot with this project as well and so they uh it this guy here was it was the stud of the football they were all good at they were all fantastic athletes all of these eight guys but this guy here um he was all over the newspaper and we'll chat about that here on the next slide um so the 1942 football season um seven or six of the seven seniors um this is their final year Harlan Block is in the back row second from the left um right next to Glenn Cleckler uh a lot the only one missing in here is Carl Sims but uh they were they were predicted to have an average season um and uh they they flipped their record around um going into the season but I will mention too number 81 in the front row I was just looking at 81 he's got a stellar pencil mustache yeah uh he uh he was a starter his name was Joe Garza and I will mention too because I probably won't get to it later but a lot of these guys went into I mean as we know went into the service after they graduated um and a lot of them followed the Marines because of what the eight will do um but uh number 81 actually joined the air corps and he went down in March I believe of 1944 he was killed as well so um Joe Garza was his name but he was a grade below these other fellas so um but yeah next slide and looking at this entire group and knowing that you know eight probably possibly a few more that you know went to different services but eight of these cats went on to serve and to fight number eighty five he looks like he definitely looks like he's either came out of the freshman class or like one of the youngest ones I mean you look at these you look at these this group and a lot of them look like you know older older younger teens and young adults but eight eighty five really drives home the point of the age of these of this group when this photo was taken. Oh yeah yep they probably all went in don't you think I mean they're the the prime they're in the fit of the fittest and yeah yep I can tell you too um we talked about Leo Ryan and being the oldest of seven kids the guy in the back row um next to Harlan Black so it'd be to our left so he'd be the first from the left in the back row um that is Kenneth Ryan. Kenneth Ryan was Leo's youngest brother they were about a year apart um his interview is on the National Museum of the Pacific War website. Wow his name is and uh he specifically wrote in there that the main reason why he joined the Marines was because of what those eight guys did. Wow and he he was on Iwo Jima as well he was a part of the uh joint assault signal corps but so here's the starting lineup and we won't talk too much about this but um the just to point out where the eight guy or seven of the eight guys are um the left tackle is Bob Suter the right guard is Leo Leduc the right uh right end is Leo Ryan quarterback is BR guest fullback Harlan Block and then the two halfbacks are Glenn Kleckler and Carl Sims um so seven of all seven started that year. Wow and then this is their results they went 6 2 and 1 and they had seven shutouts so if like I said football um that means their defense went seven games without allowing a single touchdown. Wow and one of and two of those and the two games that they did they lost so um every other game whether they tied or they won they did not allow a single point scored on them and by the end of the year um this is BR guess running the ball um he scored 17 rushing touchdowns through for about three or four um and he earned a spot on the all-valley team um as the top one of the top players in the league. Wow um and this pitcher and it's kind of hard to tell but if you can see in the back I mean it looks like the crowd is just packed.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Yeah you can see that and this is crowd you know sitting and standing on the field and then maybe a few it's not like the you had a huge rack of bleachers back then.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

But yeah it's it's very uh filled in and it was their armistice game so that would have been game eight at Donna when they lost six to nineteen that was their you know every year they and even in our school they had the local November 11th game and uh so this was their game and uh they played the local Donna rivals and lost but uh yeah they were 6'2 and one and totally flipped that record around because it was the opposite the year before and so uh January 1943 um and the dates differ I've I have done my best on research and um like I said I've interviewed a lot of the families five of the eight families have um you know and their parents really did not talk about what happened after the or during or after the war so um Glenn Cleckler was the one that lived the longest and I won't get into too you know try and go off the rabbit hole here but uh he uh his interview he was interviewed by the National Museum of the Pacific War as well and he came up with the story that um in January 1943 it was about the first war from what he said the first warmest day since the winter of and of 43 and Harlan Block had had his truck um because Harlan's family were dairy farmers and they hauled oil to local refineries and uh Harlan had the idea of hey guys let's skip school today and let's go watch a movie and Glenn Kleckler had been striving to go to the perfect attendance award and uh ultimately decided to go with his friend and so him Carl Sims and Harlan and Harlan Block um got in the truck and took off and those three guys um ultimately though you'll hear about them three being together here in a little bit um because the the story is so weird how it all adds up um with dates and um so keep those three guys in the back of your mind um but next slide real quick andrew looking at this school now you said you went to a very small school in um southern Michigan I went to school in um Ohio in Columbus how old was your school that you went to was since the town was so small was it an older school or was it a modern day school?

SPEAKER_02 30:11

So it was a newer high school but our middle school which used to be the old high school looks almost identical to this okay perfect because I went to uh my my middle school was called Park Street Elementary School in Grove City Ohio but as you just said it was the aforementioned Park Street high school from back in the day and so looking at this my middle school looked a lot like this we had all the old school uh heaters the uh water based heaters in the corner you had I'm sure that place was riddled with asbestos you had all the pipes with the asbestos coating you had all the so looking at that that school it just reminds me of the middle school I went to we had all the old skinny lockers and just it was so old how old was it it was so old that it had to stage in the gymnasium because remember back in those days footprints were more premium so a lot of times you had to stage in the cafeteria or the gym also acted as an auditorium and so you would have a gymnasium with a basketball hoop and if you missed it it went right through the curtain into the into the stage and so looking at that slide it it just reminds me of the middle school I went to yep no it uh definitely for me too and so these guys uh these three they skipped school and went to um they went to the West movie theater and kleckler had decided you know what let's not go here because the manager of the theater was a big football fan and back in the day you get caught skipping school you know what's going to happen to you and so um they they traversed uh all the way through the valley and they end up at Harlegen where they saw and I've looked for movies that were playing and the one that I think that if they did do this because like I said there's there's been debates on what happened there was talk about you know boys being boys um doing their thing back in the day and uh need I say more and so I it I'm sure it was a mixture of both but if if it was on this date that they went um they uh it was somewhere I will find you and it was a Clark Gable film because Cleckler did mention in his interview that they didn't really want to watch this movie that they were going to see.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

But ultimately the movie ends and they're like now what do we do? How do we explain this? Because ultimately our principal is going to find out and they saw the Marine Corps recruiting sign. The other story that I heard was there were you know there was issues going on maybe with the football coach and the boys doing their thing and uh they they were near an army they were going to go join the army and the uh marine recruiter said you know you're not tough enough to join the Marines and so that's what got them but I haven't found any research on like you know other than chatting with families um so it I'm sure it was a mixture of both uh but kleckler's interview I mean explains what they say um so that's the that's the fun part of research you know you kind of have to pick the middle ground and uh see what happens because there you know a lot of these guys died before they could tell their story so um they get back to school and uh the next day and the principal calls them in and says all right boys I know where you were let's get this over with and kleckler before they left the Marine recruiter because the marine recruiter told him hey we I can't sign you up until you graduate and so kleckler says you know what let's uh let's sign our paperwork and then when the principal calls us in tomorrow we're gonna say that that was our sole purpose and so he convinced the principal that that's why they skipped school and so uh about three days later the principal says hey um his name was Claiborne Norris and he says hey uh Glenn I got you approved of early graduation and whether the boys wanted that or not they uh they were approved of that and so within seven days this appeared in the local newspaper the three guys are kind of in the front row there uh Carl Sims Glenn Cleckler and Harlan Block and they were joined by four classmates and one upperclassman and they were uh some of the newspapers said the the entire backfield and right side of the Panther line have enlisted in the Marines and then I've seen a few that have said the Panthers are now going to fight a different bat or play a different game and it's against the Axis powers um in the war. So they were getting highly regarded and they're I mean for a week straight they were headlines.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Now if you're writing a Hollywood screenplay version of this you got to go with the story about the the excuse that they lost control of like you know the oh we we went to join the Marines and now all of a sudden they got early dismissal and you would put this screen this this shot up on the screen and the gentleman in the back next to behind Harlan Block he's one that's really upset that this this excuse got out of hand. You can just the brother um and so it was uh I'm sure um I I can guarantee you they were all kind of wondering what did we get into but uh you know they were very I mean there were local events planned for them they had church services for them where they were the guests of honor I mean they were prepped so yeah and so the caption on this this beautifully preserved newspaper um from January 21st 1943 above the eight boys that are leaving Thursday on January 28th for the Marines reading from left to right row Leo Ryan uh br guess Pete Hall and Robert Suter front row Carl Sims Leo Leduc Glenn Cleckler and Harlan Block graduation ex uh graduation exercise for these boys will be held Monday January 25th on January 28th this group will leave for San Antonio where they will have their final physical examination from there they will go into San Diego California for their induction into United States Marine Corps yep yep and so back to the mothers um so this is the eight moms um and they were heavily publicized as well because their eight sons were going Harlan Black's mom is second from the right in the back row and that was them she's the one that we remember from Flags of our father where she says that's my harlan I can recognize his his mom anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Yep yep what's the um can you go back to that picture again who is the mom of um the young man whose brother was killed on the Arizona uh the the back left far left far left and or no no second from the right in the first row second from the right in the first or second from the left in the first row I apologize right in uh yep either way either way she's more jovial than you would think she would be in this knowing that her son's going off after her husband passed away and her uh other son died yep second from the left I had to remember because Cleckler's mom is the next one over and then Leduc's mom is on the far right yep and then this picture here sorry it's a little blurry but um this was the seven seniors on their graduation day um and it's like I said the the Weslico Museum preserved a lot of the information and the ceremony was um I have the whole list of the ceremony that began about 3 p.m in the auditorium they had the um early graduation so and this was the first time recorded in Weslico history because like we talked about before a bunch of these you know families had gone to war um a former principal had gone to the war already people were going but this was the first time that a number left at one time and so and that left school early this was the first time in Weslico history well and they were already making headlines winning all these games yep and they were hometown names already yep yep and you know like I said in the height in the West because there's the newspapers and then there was the student paper and I mean they were all over the place the um just class act boys that you know remind I mean I can think of my friends from high school and I can think of who were represented who I mean um and it it just makes you think about what uh I don't know if you we'll talk about a different war here for a second but like the beginning of the movie Born on the Fourth of July when Ron Kovic and all of his buddies are playing army and then they go in you know we're gonna we have to get in there before it gets over you know I can't say that that's what these guys were thinking but it reminds me a lot of that attitude um now I don't know if you I don't know if you mentioned it before we talked about how small your class was and we're talking about how these these the seven here in this photo plus the the eighth gentleman how large was their graduation class altogether before they got separated for early uh graduation yeah I I think it was about 70. Leo Leduc on the left there next to Harlan Black um he uh his son sent me the because I can because the Westlico High School has all the yearbooks that they've they preserved and they share them online but there was no yearbook for this class um because there was a paper shortage while his son had the copy of the only cop like not the only copy but one of a few that had been printed and so I was able to see that. Wow and um yeah that's where all the pictures the of the guys at the beginning of the presentation came from and so just so that I understand they didn't have an early graduation for the entire class they had two graduations one for these guys and then one for the rest of the class on the regular day in June yep yep yep and these seven these seven I mean like they had the they played the Marine Corps hymn and so to top this off what happened was was according to Glenn kleckler again um they uh they want they gave presentations and whatever and hand them the diplomas and then they wanted one of the seven to make a speech and Glenn kleckler was you know the big the big guy in the class um just he was the president of uh he was known as the best all around in his senior class he was the president of the uh Weslico varsity club so he was I mean he was well rounded and even in his later life I mean just uh a very well known guy well respected and so he went up and in his interview he said you know I said uh the the student body wherever we go whatever we may be doing we will never forget this day and I when we as we move through the presentation um just remember the day that this happened so January 25th keep that in in your back pocket um as we get closer to the end here you know as as you're going through the story I'm once again I'm I'm stuck in that screenplay mode right and we've all heard the story of the big the big fish in a little pond going to become the little fish in a big pond.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yep once again in the screenplay version of this the opening scene obviously you got to speed through part of this but you want to build your character development just just in like varsity blue style montages of these guys driving around town in their late 30s cars getting all the girls going on celebration now they're having this party this graduation just for them they're going to the soda shop everybody's patting them on the back woo and then the next cut they're standing a Marine Corps boot camp getting screamed at in the face because now they're a bunch of nobodies and just the just the uh the end of both spectrums on that it would just completely just you just see them just holy hell what did I get into yeah oh yeah and so now we get to the picture that is behind Dennis there.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Um so this so that you'll notice in here there's 13 guys now and so five of these guys um are from opposing schools and I have interviewed the families of those guys as well just to see you know if they had any any stories and whatnot. And from what it sounds like they were just opposing rivals and they saw the attention that these eight guys were getting and they're like all right this is it boys we're going we're we're not gonna let all these Weslico boys get all the credit. And so they joined as well and this is their induction ceremony on the Bidell building in San Antonio Texas they um they graduated on January 25th but were not called up until February um and they made the trip up by train or by bus excuse me they went by bus to the to San Antonio and were inducted and then after this they went by Pullman train to the Marine Recruit depot um in San Diego California. And if any of you are wondering about the quality of their palm aid and how well it holds just look at the tie in the fifth guy from the end it's a windy day there his tie is on the move but their hair it's holding firm yep this is um platoon 154 that they were in um I I know what we put we can pinpoint a few of them Harlan Black the second from the top row he's third from the left um They uh I was able to find seven of these guys in here. Again, Carl Sims is not in this picture, but uh they uh they went through boot camp. It was the seven-week process. Um Carl Sims actually scored the highest in the rifle range with 307. Um, but just a quick story about the rifle range that Glenn Keckler talked about was they took they used football when they talked about when they went to the rifle range. They they said, you know, how many of you guys are football players? And Keckler said, you know, about you know, obviously those eight guys rose their hands, and uh he's like, Well, I want you just to think that this, I mean, you're not trying to tackle these guys now, they're trying to get you, and you, you know, so he made this because he was a guado, this uh their drill instructor was a Guadalcanal veteran, and so he had just explained to him, hey, don't you? I mean, you guys cannot be a scared, you cannot be scared. You guys weren't scared in football. Now you can't be scared now. Um, so that what they brought football into the mix again when they're at boot camp. But um, and and he was asked too, he's like, was boot camp the interviewer there for the National Museum of the Pacific War said, now Glenn Cleckler, were you you know out of shape? And he said he said, I can't remember any of us being out of shape because we were all athletes, and they were all multi-sport athletes as well. I mean, and there and one thing that I was able to do was I used, I don't know if you've ever heard of Golden Arrow military research, um, but I was able to purchase all of the West of Kuwait's uh United States Marine Corps service records, and so they give, I mean, they had filled out the questionnaire and stuff in there and talked about what they did. And a lot of these guys were three, four sport athlete guys and farm kids. So we we know about that.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

You know, it's so it strikes me as interesting the things that stand out to people when we look at photos like this. And I don't know if it's the color change between the um uniforms and their M1 um M, well, I guess back then as a 1903 Springfield belt, but their cartridge belt, the the organized the person who photographed this did such a great job of ranging them by height, and how you can tell that is all of their cartridge belts are almost level across the board. You can see a little variations in a few of them, but because they because the standard of where they wore them and how tall they were, you can almost see a perfectly horizontal line of their cartridge belts as they're standing for this photograph. Carrying a firearm daily comes with serious responsibilities. Responsibilities your everyday counterparts may not have to consider. Knowing where you can and cannot legally bring your firearm is crucial. But sometimes life takes you places where carrying isn't an option. That's where the stopbox pro portable gun safe comes in. Securely store your firearm in your vehicle while handling life's obligations. Safety, responsibility, and with peace of mind. Stopbox pro. Protection when you need it, security when you don't. For more information, visit stopboxusa.com forward slash D410.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

Um the Bedell building, I I had never heard of that, and I I just researched it while you were talking, and that building I'm looking at a picture from the 1940s, and I can see that flagpole. Um the with the one, yeah, that flagpole right there. And this picture is from the streets on Broadway and Houston Street. Like I've traveled that road so many times.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

So are they on the roof?

SPEAKER_03 47:48

Yeah, they're on the roof.

SPEAKER_02 47:50

So that's a concrete like um header down there. Because at first it looked like a piece of industrial equipment, but now you're saying it, I can tell they're on the roof, the streets behind them, and so that'll be like an ornamental concrete like fixing.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

You can see that in this picture here of the Bidell building. Um, side note, we need to get you down here, Andrews. You can go to these sites um and take you down to West Lico. You got a place to stay. Anyway, I'll let you let you um take over again.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Yeah, well, that'd be great. I like I said, I want to get down there again because I I was only down there for about six hours um between Westlico and Harlogen those two days, that one day. So gotta make it make time to go down there. Um, but this is obviously a map of the Pacific Theater of World War II. And um after boot camp, there they were promised that they were gonna stay together, and uh that lasted about an hour. They after they graduated boot camp. They were all split up into different units. Um, and so we can go to the next slide, and I just a small little introduction on what each of them did. Um, but Glenn Clector will talk more about here in a little bit. But he went into the 90 millimeter anti-aircraft group. Um, and he he was one of the first guys to go overseas. Um, and he was in the Marshall Islands for a while, and then he got reassigned to the 4th Marine Division, and we'll come back to him um on Iwo Jima here in a little bit. Um Leo Ryan, he he went, um, they were on the same troop troop ship together. He went to um Johnston Island down in Hawaii, um, a part of the 16th Defense Battalion. And his job was he was in he was a searchlight operator and he was in charge of about 40 men. And um, I'm still doing research on his unit right now. Um, but uh he got exposed to about 800 million candle power of light during a training exercise or a searchlight mission. And so he was temporarily blinded for a little bit. Um, but he was um little side note, he got married to his high school sweetheart shortly before he shipped out. Um, but yeah, Leo was not to my knowledge, wasn't in combat, but you know, obviously was around there. And then after the war, he went back to Bremerton, Washington, um, where he closed out the end of the war, and he was the first discharged of the guys. He was discharged on July 7th, 1945.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

It looks like he may have gotten to a little uh how'd he do uh before this photo was taken. Looks like the bridge of his nose is cut like you would see when someone's nose gets broken.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Yeah. Uh Pete Hall. So Pete Hall was uh put into the 2nd Marine Division. Um he served, he served on Tarawa, Saipan, Tinian, and Okinawa. And I've been doing some of the Tarawa research right now for um my book. And uh, like I said, I've made one thing that I've done is in the last year or so, uh the research never stops. And if I continue to research, the book will never get written. But um kind of I kind of want to talk about each, you know, pick a different engagement for each of the guys, so I'm covering all of them. But uh he was with um he was assigned to the uh 10th Marine Regiment, but they were attached to the 2nd or the 6th Marine Regiment at Tarawa, and he came in in the reserves towards the end of the battle and kind of was involved in the mopping up duties, but he was with the Pat Cowitzers, is what he did. Uh I know for sure 105 millimeter he was with Ontara. Um, and then he got transferred into a different battery um uh from Saipan to Okinawa. Um, and then he was discharged um at the end of the war. And then we got BR guest. So uh his daughter uh generously sent me a picture of his Purple Heart. Um, he was with an engineer company, um F Company of the 2nd Battalion of the 18th Marine Regiment. And Don, I believe you had Clay Bonyman Evans on before. Uh BR Guest was in Bonyman's unit. Um, and I don't have this letter on here, but what happened was is after I gave this presentation to the Wesleco Museum a few months ago um on Zoom, his daughter listened in and he wrote, he was he was interviewed too, and they were um, but he wrote in the margins of Robert Sherrod's book on Tara about his experience. And he talks about Bonnie Men in there, and I have um Evans's book, Bones of My Grandfather, right here, because I want to learn, you know, a little bit more about what they did. Um, but uh guess was supposed to go in on the first wave because they were attached to the 8th Marines, 2nd Battalion, 8th Marines, and uh he didn't go in till later, and he wasn't even on Tara, I'm guessing an hour. He got hit by a grenade just below the knee and was on a hospital ship for about two months and was awarded the Purple Heart on December 7th of 43. And then he but he fought the rest of the war. I mean, he was on the same, he was on Saipan, Tinian, and Okinawa just like Pete Hall. Wow. So, yep. Um, and then Harlan Block. Um, he he kind of went into something a little different as well. He went into the Marine Parachute Unit, which um, as we know, the Marine Raiders and the Marine Paramarines were the elite of the Marines at the time. And he went to Bougainville um in December of 43, was attached to HS Company and uh served about a month there. And then when he returned back to the States, um, he was transferred to E Company of the 28th Marine Regiment of the new 5th Division, and as we know, the 5th Division was comprised of new recruits, but mostly the Raiders and the Paramarines, because they knew that they needed to put the elite together as they were getting ready to go towards Japan. Um, and then he was promoted to corporal in October of 44.

SPEAKER_02 54:07

Correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the reason the Paramarines and the Raiders kind of didn't have a long shelf life, um, when A, not much use of need for parachuting in into the Pacific, but the Raiders, on the other hand, with a different story. But there were some higher ups in the Marine Corps who kind of felt, hey, um, you know, why have these different skill sets in the Marines? Because as far as I'm concerned, all Marines have these different skill sets. That's what separates us from the Army, the Navy, and the Air Corps, etc. And so there internally, there was certain people who had a hard time allocating resources and specific training for these groups when they felt that all Marines should be able to handle that that level of skill set.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Right, and there was talk that they were that the Marines were going to be disbanded anyway. I I did read that, that there was talk that they were going to get rid of them in general, um, you know, by the end of the war.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

So You know, I went to school for computers in 2002, and one of the gentlemen in my MCP class, he actually taught computer programming and stuff in the Marine Corps, but he was getting ready to leave the Corps and he needed to get civilian certific certificates because his Marine Corps stuff meant nothing in the private sector. And that was in 2001, and that is when I learned, and I was in kind of in shock because the Marine Corps always had a thing for me because growing up, my best friend Danny Eaton's dad was a gunning sergeant in the Marine Corps. So from like second grade to sixth grade, I'd you know, in the summertime I basically lived at his house and his mom was you know in the Navy, and so the Marine Corps always kind of and I lived in the Rickenbacker Air Force Base, always went the air shows, but anyhow, so always had a a special place in my heart, but it wasn't until I went to school for computers and I was talking to school, and that's when I found out that the Marine Corps is the least funded military branch out of all of our branches. And to that was shocking to me. Well, I guess it kind of makes sense because technically they're part of the Navy, but in and of itself, it's like all the stuff they do, all all the you know, the promotion, the talk, and then find out that they get the this won't mean much to people who aren't super computer nerds, but at that time, uh Windows XP was the rage, and um Windows XP was it, and at that time the Marine Corps had just moved into Windows 2000. So their computer system in 2002, they were just upgrading to a system that Microsoft put out in 1999 that they wrote in 1998, and Windows XP was already out, and they had actually already skipped over millennium and went to XP, and so that's how far behind they were at that point.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yes. Um, and this is Carl Sims, he uh he was attached to the 3rd Amphibian Tractor Battalion, and I wish I would have done better with the picture, but his daughter sent me the picture of that, that it's an amphibious tractor blown up. Um he was on Guam. Uh they were and and he was one thing, and I want to correct too. I spoke for World War II TV and I mentioned he was with the third Marine Division on Iwo Jima. He actually went, he was assigned to the fifth, but on Guam, he was on the third, he was with the 3rd Marine Division. Um, and uh he's got a fantastic story too because when they were writing home, you know, they weren't allowed to say where they were, and he had a code with his family of where he was at. So based off of, you know, here's where the A is or here's where the U is, I'm in Australia right now. So he was, you know, keeping in touch with his family, but he was a radio operator, field telephone man, um, and he served on Guam. Um, and uh yeah, he he was uh on there for about a month and then uh prepped to go to Iwo Jima here in a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

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SPEAKER_03 58:54

You know what's wild is these these are boot camp pictures, aren't they? Yeah, that's their service pictures, yep. It's what's wild is uh I was just as you were talking, I was glancing back at their picture that was taken of them in high school, not a year before, and they look like killers. Yeah. Legit killers.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

Yeah, 2000. Um at the end of um the war on terror, roughly around that time, there was a photographer. He got on eight, nine guys at boot camp, got pictures of them the day before boot camp, and then got pictures of them after their service ended. Some of them it was a year later because of injury, some it was two, some of them it was four. And just like the guys who just you know served just a year then got out. The side-by-side photos, it looked like 10 years difference.

SPEAKER_03 59:44

Yeah. Yeah. Man, probably something.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Yeah. And so, and the uh Robert Suter here, he he kind of had a different unit too. So he was in the second joint assault signal company, um, and they were uh used to call in airstrikes and uh during during the invasions. And so Robert Souter went in. Um they were attached to the 2nd Marine Division, and he landed on Saipan and he was wounded on D-Day at Saipan, June 15, 1944, by a shot in the collarbone. Um, and it did say he went in on Tinian and Okinawa as well. Um, but uh still looking at more info on that uh for what he did, but the service record states he was in all three engagements. And then finally, we have Leo Leduc. Leo Leduc was um an airplane mechanic. Um, he went to the Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago after boot camp, and then he served in the Marshall Islands um for the duration of his time in the war. About what you see on the dates was about where he was, and um he didn't see combat, but he saw the planes coming in and out of the invasions. And this is a picture of LeDuc and Glenn Cleckler on in the Marshall Islands. So they're seeing each other all over the place, and that leads us into the next topic here as we get into so um as we know the training for Island X or Iwo Jim, as we know now, um, was very heavy, and we knew that we were going to send in three Marine divisions to go into the fight, and so they were training in and around Hawaii's after Harlan Black returned. Um, he went to Camp Pendleton and then went to Camp Tarawa at the Parker Ranch in Hawaii. And during this time, you know, he he had been home, and from Flags of Our Fathers and other articles I've read, he was telling pretty much everybody that he knew that, hey guys, I'm I'm not coming back. I'm done. This is it. And I don't know if if you can say this with everybody, and I won't get too far down the trail here, but um, we had a local kid um who our football seems named after, um, who's killed in Vietnam. And everybody that I've talked to said it was kind of a similar situation. He just he knew before because I was able to meet one of his hooch mates from the war, um, and he he told me, he said, so-and-so was a good guy, but and just a fun-loving guy. But when he knew it was up, he was gone in a week. It was just, you know, he knew it was coming. And um, Harlan Black, it sounds like it was this way. And I don't know if it was before or around this time, but he had, I, like I said, I made a calendar of all of what these guys did, when they could have interacted with each other. And I don't know if maybe it was before they went in, but he told all eight or seven of his friends that if if I die, I would like you to name your first son after me. And Leo Leduc, um, his son is named Don Harlan Leduc, and it's named after Harlan Block. Um, but uh so where we go here is so all these troop ships, they're in Hawaii, they're getting ready to, if you want to go back really quick, Don, um they're in Hawaii, they're training. Um, and it was around February, it was in the middle of January, um, where all these Marines are walking in Honolulu, and Harlan Block runs into his best friend Glenn Cleckler, and they talk about Harlan's furlough because out of all the guys, Harlan Block is the only one that got to go home during the war. The rest of them were all, they, I mean, like BR guessing them, they were in for the long haul. And so um, you know, they're talking about home, and so Harlan Block says to Glenn Cleckler, he hands them this Marine Corps ring that he received um from, I believe, Camp Elliott or Camp Pendleton at the PX there. And uh he said, I want you to give this ring to my mother, and this ring is preserved now at uh the Iwo Jima Museum in Harlogen, Texas. And Glenn Cleckler didn't believe him. He's like, you know, this is my happy, go-lucky friend. He's telling me he's gonna get killed, go jump in a lake. But he took the ring and kept with it just, you know, with the intuition that, yep, I'm gonna see my friend again. And there was an article in the West Dakota uh student newspaper that before Iwo Jima, BR Guess, um Pete Hall, Bob Suter, I think Carl Sims, they all saw each other on Saipan before because all these guys went to Saipan. The second division was on Saipan in R, and then the guys going to Iwo Jima were on Saipan. And so um stopped at Saipan. So they had a reunion. I don't know if Harlan was involved with it, um, because one of the other players that was on their football team was in the fifth division as well, and they stayed in touch, they were together, but um at least four of them were together at one time before this. Um, but yeah, so we're ready for the next one. And uh so this map here, I don't know if you follow the um YouTube page Project Pass. They do a so he does James does Civil War history and whatnot, great history YouTube channel. He made these maps for me. Um this is the invasion uh of Iwo Jima, and uh Harlan Block is with the 5th Division on the left, they landed on Green Beach. Um, and Carl Sims was with the 3rd Amphibian Tractor Battalion that landed on Green Beach with Harlan Block. Not sure if they were in the same wave or whatnot, but they were on they landed on the same one, and then on Blue Beach one, Glad. Collector went in. So the three guys that skipped school are now landing on Iwo Jima. So um almost two years later, after they were inducted. And so, yeah, that's my animation there. So as we know, uh the 28th Marine Regiment, the 1st Battalion of the 28th Marine Regiment, their job was to cut off Suribachi at it or cut off the island at the head of Mount Suribachi, the 500-foot extinct volcano there at the point. Harlan was in the 2nd Battalion, so they brought up the rear. But by February 21st, they attacked um they attacked the mountain and they took it in four days. Um and so most of the casualties from their unit happened on February 21st when they went towards Sorobachi, which I can totally understand. And you got to give General Kurobayashi credit because I mean that island was defended to the absolute T, underground, in the cave, and in the mountain, all over the place. And most of the time you couldn't see anybody. And so they were going, they they were fighting an enemy unseen, but they did what they had to do. Um yep, we're good there. And there, yep, so there's the 20 through the 21st. They went and hit the point. And so by February 22nd, they're like, okay, if there is no action, we are going up tomorrow morning, which is the 23rd, and uh, we're gonna secure the mountain. And that's where the famous, you know, um the famous event happened, which some people think maybe that's when the war ended. Unfortunately, it wasn't, but uh um, so that's the first flag raising picture. Um, and throughout my research, um, the guys that were involved with the identifications, Stephen Foley and Brent Westmeyer, I've gotten to become really good friends with them. Um, and uh so the story, we won't dive into all of the identifications and stuff, but uh from Harlan's point of view, we can chat about that. So a four-man patrol, there was a patrol before that went up and didn't get even a third of the way up the hill, and then a patrol of four men from F Company made it almost to the top, and then third platoon of Easy Company, 40-man patrol, walked up, and that's the one that Doc Bradley, um, whose son wrote the book, he was a part of, um, and they put this flag up. Uh, there was some Japanese resistance, but um the flag went up, and then uh the island cheered, and uh boats were honking their horns, and it was just an exciting time because it was the first time that a flag had gone up on Japanese homeland. Um, and the U.S. Secretary of the Navy, James Forrestall, wanted that flag. And so Colonel Chandler Johnson of the 2nd Battalion was like, they're not gonna have this flag, so let's put up a larger flag. And so um through through my research and interviews with the historians there, um, and there's a letter that is in later in the presentation um from Ira Hayes. Colonel Johnson and Captain Dave Severance suggested that a patrol go up and put a larger flag up, and it was assigned to Sergeant Mike Strank and uh three of his second platoon fire team members, and that consisted of Corporal Harlem Block and then Private's first classes, Ira Hayes, and Franklin Susley. And so they knew about halfway up the mountain that they were going to put that flag up. And so, next slide.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:47

If you guys go back to WTSP World War II episode 24, when I interviewed um Mr. Robert Glenn of Fox Company 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marine, he'd actually was laying on a gurney waiting for medical assistance from um frag he took from a grenade when that flag was raised, and he was talking about how everybody was um reacting to seeing the flag raising.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Yep. And so this is the famous photo here. Um, and these pictures were submitted by the two guys that I mentioned, Stephen Foley and Brent Westermeyer. They fantastic guys, excellent on this history and know a lot more than I do. Um, but uh, yep, and the flag went up one four hundredth of a second, and uh the you know the rest was history.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:40

Can you tell our viewers uh and those that are looking which one is Harlan Block?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

Yep, he is at the far end of the poll, and I do have a slide in there when we talk about when he got identified. Yep. Um yep. And so these pictures here, I wish I would have zoomed in a little more, but uh, so these pictures were taken after the fact. The two on the right are the Gung Ho photos. One was taken by Rosenthal, and the other one was uh George Burns, and then uh Rosenthal took the one on the left, and if you zoom in, that's Harlan Block, Franklin Sauceley, and Ira Hayes, and that was one of the pictures that um recently came out into the woodwork. Um, and then the one in the middle is the Gung Ho photo. Um, and I always noticed that the guy with the cap on, there was always like a tough of hair sticking out. I remember as a little kid, like I didn't think too much of it, but I'm like, there's got to be somebody standing in behind there, you know. I don't know who the heck that is. Well, come to find out, that's Harlan Block. And if you go to the one on the right, taken from a different angle with the helmet on, you can see his facial features. The slide doesn't, on my end, um, I didn't do it justice when I uploaded it, but just wanted to kind of show the different snap here.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:57

He takes his helmet off and he's waving it in the air.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Yeah, no, and if you watch the film, because it was filmed, um, you can see, I mean, you can see his face um in there. So, and I want and and we don't have to go into too much of the identification, but the guy that they originally thought was in Harlan Block's spot, Sergeant Henry Hansen, he's the guy standing in front of Harlan, and you can tell he's kind of got a different attire on. He's got, you know, his pants are rolled up, he's got the uh shells on his on his uh shoulder there, and he's got a cap on, so he's kind of looks a little different than what Harlan Block looks like in the Rosenthal photo.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:39

Real quick, um, just to point out to our audience, the gung ho photo inadvertently caused what we would call nowadays uh misinformation. Uh Rosenthal said, Yeah, that picture I I staged that. That that we set that up afterwards. And then as we do nowadays, people heard that and thought that the flag raising photo was staged. And and it took so many years for them to try to set the no, the flag raising wasn't staged. The gonho photo was staged. That was done afterwards, clearly. You're not gonna, you're not all watch Rinterval, boys, get together. No, no, during combat, he spread out, but uh, but by him saying in an interview that it was set up, so many people thought he was saying that the flag raising photo was set up.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:23

Right, and Rosen thought thought he didn't even get the right picture when he took the one of the flag going up because he's like, I didn't even think to ask for their names or anything, you know. So, yeah, no, you're 100% right there, Don.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

And when this episode airs um on the website, I will include at the bottom the YouTube video I did on our Iwo Jima flag raising statue here in Cape Coral because it is made from the project mold that uh the Italian sculptor made in between his concept art and the the end piece. So technically, our statue here in Cape Coral is made from one of the uh three original molds of the Iwo Jima flag raising statue. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:09

Um, so here's another map here. Um, and I'll mention too so after the flag raising, Harlan's unit kind of stayed um around Mount Suribachi, uh, cleanup duties and whatnot. But the as we know that the um the battle was getting worse on the northern end of the island, and so it the 28th Marines and the rest of the 5th Marine Division was to go attack the north end of the island. Um, and so their jump-off date was March 1st, 1945. And to the left is the letter. And like I said, my main thing with the story was I wanted to get, you know, the personal stories and whatnot of these guys and use their letters to tell the story. Um but this letter here was in Harlan Bloch's United States Marine Corps service record. Um, and uh it's dated on Iwo Jima, March 1, 1945. And uh it was a letter to his mother. And if you read through it, it says that he saw it. Um, so it says, Dearest mother, just a few lines to let you know I'm okay. I came through without a scratch. Oh, yes, I saw Sims, Carl, just before we hit. He is okay. I guess you're pretty anxious to hear from me by this time. This isn't much, but it's all I can I could get. I will write more later. Your son Harlan. So he had seen Carl Sims between the battle and whatnot. And I'm guessing this is the only time he wrote home, but the date says it all. Um, so they jumped off about nine o'clock in the morning. Um, and in that time, Sergeant Michael Strank, who Harlan, that was Harlan's squad leader, fellow flag raiser, the man he idolized by all accounts, was killed by what they believe was friendly naval fire. And this is where in my book I'm gonna kind of explain a little bit of everything because Harlan Block is killed in action on March 1, 1945, the day that this letter was written. Um, and uh accounts vary. Flags Our Fathers says that he survives later into the afternoon and gets killed by a mortar blast and screams, they killed me. There was a documentary that came out in 2000 um that they interviewed veterans that served with them and said that he had been cartwheeled by a mortar shell. Um and that was by a veteran that said that. And then there was another thought that maybe he had been killed in the same strike as Mike Strank, because I mean he would have had to have been right next to him, you know, when that happened. Um, so potentially friendly fire. But in this service record, we'll talk about the letter here. Harlan Block's mother receives this letter before she receives the telegram. And so the reason why this letter is in the service record is because she sent it to the Marine Corps debating her son's death because she didn't believe it. And so um the Marines had two fellow Marines sign affidavits two months to the day after he was killed, so May 1st, 1945, and they state that they were attacking um in the area of Nishi Ridge there on the map, and he had been hit by uh mortar fire, enemy artillery fire, and was and was and died while receiving first aid from a hospital apprentice named Gill, who I found I believe was uh Ralph Gillespie. So I in my book, I'm gonna probably discuss all of the options, but the I'm gonna probably go with the affidavits as I mean they were written two months after by two guys that were there. Um, and like I said, in the fog of war, who the heck knows? But um, you know, and we may never know, but it was definitely artillery fire of some sort, whether it was from a naval ship with Mike Strang, or it was, you know, surviving later in the day and getting killed, you know. Regardless, unfortunately, he passed away. Um, and that letter was received by his mother um shortly before they received the telegram. And that's his grave on Iwo Jima. Um, taken by, I did find out it was taken by Bob Suter, so another member of the West of Kuwait, he must have been on Iwo Jima for something. Um and uh on his you know tracking on his service record, I can't find the dates, but um, the West of Co. Museum sent me the picture, and Suter is credited with taking that picture. So he was he was there um to see his friend. And so after the war, they kind of all did their own thing. Glenn Cleckler um came home to Corpus Christi um and then was discharged at uh in November. Uh BR guest there in the middle. He um, like I said, he survived his wounds and was discharged in January. Leo Leduc was discharged in December, and then Carl Sims on the right was discharged in November as well. Pete Hall and uh Leo Ryan and Bob Suter. I don't have pictures of them in uniform, but they too all were discharged um following the war. And a lot of them went into um education. They went to college, they used the GI Bill. Um Glenn Cleckler and B.R. Guess actually played college football um for San Marco College, and I believe um Carl Sims on the right did as well for a short time. Um, but yeah, they guess Cleckler, Guess, and Bob Souter all went into education after the war. And then Leo Leduc and Leo Ryan went back into the Marines for a short time. Wow. Um, and then uh so as we've discussed the you know, the famous pitcher. I mean, it's all over the newspapers. Um, by the end of Uojima, three of the guys were killed: Strank, Black, and Franklin Sousley 20 days later. Um, and even Henry Hansen, who they thought was Harlan Black, um, he was killed on the same day as Strank and Black as well. So um there was talk on who was in the picture, and apparently when Harlan's mother saw it, she was already devastated that they'd received the telegram on March 26th, I believe, and um they were devastated that their son had been killed. Um and she saw this picture and said, That is my son. I've changed his diaper so many times, you know. Wow. Um, and everybody's like, There's no way, there's no way possible. The names are right here. Um and well, uh, next slide. Uh and so Ira Hayes, um, who was in Harlan's fire team and a fellow flag raiser, actually um wrote Bell Block this letter. It's about a four-page letter, and it says um right in there, Harlan was in on this picture, but how they followed up the picture, I don't know. And so, like in Flags Our Fathers, when you see him say, you know, Harlan was in the picture, that is a hundred percent true. Um, and he did, I'm trying to find the dates, but he did walk to Texas to let um Harlan's family know that Harlan was in that picture. And so by uh January 1947, Hank Hansen was removed and Harlan Block was added into the picture. And that's the way it stood for the next few years, and that is the updated, that was 1947. You got Harlan Block, Renee Gagman, John Bradley, Michael Strang, Franklin Salisley, and Ira Hayes.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:04

You know, to the casual observer at home, hearing the mother say, I recognize my son's butt from a photograph. It seems far-fetched, it seems a little crazy. In the end, it's true. In the book of Band of Brothers and in the series, when they interview um the veterans, they often talk, they could, they were able, they worked with their fellow um paratroopers so long and trained on them so hard that they could tell who was who in the middle of the night by their silhouette. Yep. I experienced this in real life. I was never in the service, but I've been reenacting for 11 years now with one of the gentlemen who just recently retired, and he's the one I have his Ranger helmet. Um his name's Art Dersheimer, and I've been reenacting with Art, and we've been in the woods and in uniform, and these guys I never see in their civilians. It's so weird when you're at a reenactment, someone's leaving and they're wearing their everyday clothes. You're like, huh, never pictured you for a polo shirt tucked in the khakis kind of guy, but here we are. Um, I was watching a video, someone else shot at an event I wasn't at, and they were had GoPro footage from behind, and I just see a guy one in front. I said, That's Art Dersheimer, and then two seconds later the camera pans and all the way around front, and I was dead on right. You couldn't tell he'd had a different helmet on, had his M1 jacket on, but I could just tell by the way he walks and his shape, I knew who it was just from marching behind him for 10 years. And so it I obviously it turned out right, but yeah, so it's not far-fetched that someone could identify a family member or someone they served with simply by looking at them from behind and just seeing their stance because I've experienced it in real life.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:54

Yeah, for sure. And so um now when I talked to you before about remembering the date, um, so January 25th of 1943, they graduated from high school. January 23rd of 1949, six years later, they bring their brother home. Um, and uh I do have Harlan's um deceased personnel file. Um, and the the Black family wanted him to come home, and so they finally were able to send him home in January of 49. Um, and these were pictures um of his funeral. 2,000 people attended it, and then there was about 3,000 that watched the ceremony. But the seven guys that were there when he joined and joined with them were his pall bears. And if you can see the picture on the left, um there's eight guys, but um the seven out in front, the three on each side and the one in front are all members of the eight. Um and then uh, but yeah, they but they brought him home and uh he had a full military honor cemetery, and he was buried at what in Westaco, um, at the Westaco Cemetery. And then in February of 1995, um, for the 50th anniversary, he was reburied in um Harlogen at the Marine Military Academy where he rests today, and there's a picture of that later. But here's a picture of a reunion later in life. You've got BR guests, Glenn Cleckler, Leo Ryan, and Bob Suter. Um, they they all did their own thing um following the war. Um, short little synopsis of each. Carl Sims joined a um barbershop quartet. He was a part of the Border Patrol. Um, and there might be a picture on the next slide of them. So I guess it's not then I I had to I had to change a few things when I was uploading it. But Carl Sims um never it sounds to like from his daughter, he never had a problem talking about the war. Um, but he died in 1986 from causes that uh um from malaria from being in the Pacific. And so, but he was he was a border patrol man, very involved um with the law, and uh passed away in 86. Um, Bob Suter here on the right was next. Um he got in, like I said, he got into education, he taught all over the West, Western United States, finally ending up in Vallejo, um, California. Um, joined the local fire team there. Um and he uh from what his stepson told me, everybody liked him as a teacher. Uh he passed away in August of 1993 and he's buried in California. Uh Leo Leduc, uh he like I said, he served in the Marines um for another since the war, another 15 years. He was discharged in 1959. Um he was an airplane mechanic, like I mentioned, and he also was a pilot as well. And he served with there was a Texas representative named uh Wesley West, who he who worked underneath of him for a while. Um so he was very involved. And then he returned back to um his roots in Texas, where he died in 1994. Um, and then Pete Hall uh died in 1999, June 16th of 1999. Um, and he's buried at Fort Sam Houston. And then BR guest, who's here on the left, he became after college football, he became a science teacher, um, raised three kids uh and died in November of 2001. And then Leo Ryan in the middle, he became a postmaster, um referee, stayed in the West Fico area, and I have not been able to find when he died. Um, but he died here in the last 20 years. And then we'll hop on to the next slide. So that's Glenn Kleckler in the mid-2000s with his grandson. And he kept his promise for 70 years. That's him standing at Harlan Block's grave. He uh he wore that, he went home and uh tried to give Harlan Block's mother the ring back. And if you read Flags of Our Fathers, the Black family split after the after Harlan was killed, and she moved to California. And um Glenn tried giving that ring back and she denied it and did not, from what Glenn said, did not want to be reminded of it. And so he kept that ring on his finger for the rest of his life. And the man was an assistant principal baseball coach, principal, um, and never took that ring off and um wore it until he donated it in April of 2009. So in there, and there was a big scenario on that too um in the local newspapers that I was able to find. And they actually what got me into the, I forgot the, and that's him too. He died on October 6th, 2016. He was the last survivor of the West of Kuwait, um, and uh lived a fantastic life. I can think of many guys in my hometown too that were very similar, I mean, to all these guys really, but like just, you know, Glenn Kleffner was very involved with the community. And I mean, I've seen some forums out there that just students loved him as well, and uh just all these guys were the epitome of America during that time. So um next slide, I think we're about close. And that's so this was a picture I took at Harlan's grave um when I visited in 2021. And after you've researched, and I'm sure you guys can agree, but after you've researched somebody for so long, and I mean I was 12 years old when I got into this story. I'm 26 now, and uh, I mean, I needed a moment when I was there. Um, it was a very sentimental experience, you know. Um I I have a lot, I mean, everybody I can think of many heroes that I have from that war, but uh these eight guys, I've just I've loved researching it. And there's like I said, there's still more I want to do. Um, but uh it's been it's been a very, very fun project. And there's not enough hours in the day. Like I said, I want to I want to get it done, but uh it's it's been it's been really fun to do. I've really enjoyed it. Um and then this is in 2016, the new identifications came out. Um and uh obviously Doc Bradley and Rainey Gagnan are not in there, and they were replaced by Harold Schultz and Harold Keller. Um and uh yeah, that's where the flag raisers sit today, unless somebody finds something new. But I think that this is the the thanks to 21st century photo ops, we can see that this is probably how it'll stand for the test of time in terms of uh photographic evidence.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:10

So yeah, we don't have time to get into it on this episode, but I remember when that story broke, and long story short, somebody had some uh was appendicitis or kidney surgery and had a long time recovery in a hospital and was looking through some books, and based on equipment worn in the first flag racing compared to this, that's how they figured it out. Like, wait a minute. Um here's the person that was identified in a different photo ten minutes before and had on completely different gear. And if it wasn't for the gear and the web belt and the fur the jungle pouch, something along those lines, it was something that basic. That's how they figured it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:47

Yeah, and and like I said, um if I was gonna recommend there's a book out called Investigating EO, and it was written by the Marine Corps History Division, and that needs all you I mean that has all the information, but um and the Marine Corps wasn't quick to jump on the new the new hypothesis.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:04

It took a while before they said, you know what, we think there's something to this.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:08

Nope, and and it, you know, it uh it was good there. And that's my cousin Logan and I. Um, so the original die cast, like you mentioned too, Don, the um Dewalt Felix DeWeldon's original die cast. Yep. Yep, his original die cast, that is at the Marine Military Academy, um, near Harlan Blocksgrave. And that was Logan and my cousin Logan and I at the at the the day of there, but it was it was a surreal moment, and I like I said, don't want to keep you on here very much longer, but I want to thank you guys for for having me tonight. This was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:42

Great job, Andrew. Um, where can people find you? Get information on um obviously the book is far or you know, is still in the works, but people want to get a hold of you, people want to keep track of you, and um what social media pages and where can they find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:58

Yeah, so the email on there, um andrew boer10 at gmail.com, um, is the best best way for me. So um, like I said, I I I would I could talk for hours on this, and uh my goal is to get it published here in the next year or so.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:16

So well, the amount of effort, work, and the fact that your knowledge base just based off of the cues of this slide. Um, for those of you listening at home, he wasn't, you know, he's just looking at these photos and they're triggering his depth of knowledge on this topic. He wasn't reading some slides or any pro uh, he's just looking at these photos and just going from memory and fantastic job. Um, as always, head to our website, WTSPworldwar 2.com, and we'll have I'm gonna figure out how to embed this slideshow so you can watch it in real time along as you listen to the episode. And as always, for myself, Dennis Blocker, and Andrew, thank you guys so much, and we will talk to you all in two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:57

This has been a digital four10 production.