The Ramblings of a WWII Bomber Pilot ( Re-Deployed Episode)

This week, we are joined by documentarians Frank Allen and Austin Rich as they take us on an incredible journey into the life and legacy of WWII bomber pilot Arthur Allen, the author of The Ramblings of a Bomber Pilot. We dive deep into Arthur Allen’s wartime contributions, his experiences as a bomber pilot, and how his vivid memoir became the foundation for their latest documentary. Frank and Austin share the unexpected twists that arose during the making of The Ramblings of a Bomber Pilot, including how they uncovered stories that went beyond Arthur’s memoir. One of the most emotional aspects they discuss is the tragic loss of the iconic B-17 bomber, Texas Raiders, which is featured in the documentary. We explore the historical significance of this aircraft, its role in WWII, and the devastating accident in 2022 that claimed both the plane and several lives. Tune in for a poignant conversation about preserving history, the challenges of documentary filmmaking, and the enduring stories of those who served in WWII.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the What's the Scuttlebutt Podcast, your favorite World War II based podcast. And due to some scheduling conflicts, we had to switch our calendar around a little bit, so we're actually recording an episode coming up this week. So for today's episode, we are going to go back to episode 197, The Ramblings of a World War II pilot. This week we are joined by documentarians Frank Allen and Austin Rich as they take us on an incredible journey into the lifelong legacy of World War Bomber Pilot Arthur Allen. We dive deep into Arthur Allen's wartime contributions, his experience as a bomber pilot, and how his vivid memories have become the foundation of a latest documentary. Thank you guys for your continued support. We'll be back next week. Do us a favor, head over to WTSPworldwar 2.com. We have new merch out, new shirts, hats, coffee mugs, all the classics, they're all there. More shirts on the way. Thank you guys so much. Also, check out youtube.com and search for the official What's the Scuttlebutt channel. That's YouTube.com, What's the Scuttlebutt? Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

With your hosts, Don Abernathy, Jeff Copsetta, and Dennis Blocker.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Welcome everybody to another episode of the What's the Scuttlebutt Podcast, your favorite World War II based podcast. And boy, are we excited for the show tonight? The show's been kind of a long time in the coming, but with all the hurricanes and the traveling and all the craziness in the world, we had to put it off for a few weeks. But we're here, we're ready to go. So without any further ado, Dennis, why don't you take the huge privilege to introduce tonight's guest? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Absolutely. Up there in the frozen ozone, Americans fought for their lives in ways and under circumstances unimaginable. With buddies, pieces of planes, and pieces of friends spiraling down all around them, they droned on, steady on course for their intended targets in France, Germany, Romania, Italy, Japan, and all places in between. The casualty rates were horrendous, and the ways to die as varied as one's imagination, but almost all were not quick. Some, spiraling down, prisoners to centrifugal force, were pinned to walls staring into the terrified eyes of friends, all aware their short lives had now come down to seconds. They could only wait for the quick dark. One of these men who braved the frozen ozone was Captain Arthur Allen, who, fortunately for us, candidly wrote of his experiences in 1943. He wrote something called he called Ramblings of a Bomber Pilot. And I'd like to read an excerpt of that too, you right now. We haven't been in England long, about six weeks. And in that time, we've been on seven raids over German-owned and occupied land. And it isn't at all what we expected. Back in the States, we read newspaper stories of flying fortresses making raids, and always at the bottom was the phrase: none of our bombers were lost. Of course, we had read of B-17s being all shot up and coming home on two engines. But we really thought these were isolated cases. We didn't have the slightest idea of the nature of this theater of operations. We never dreamed that after six weeks of operations, we'd have one squadron with a 72% loss of flying personnel, some 20 airplanes completely washed out, and more close friends killed than we can count on our fingers and toes. See the B-17, which we were told was so sturdily built that it could not stand anything, fall apart before our eyes. And there were many more incidents that will be imprinted on our minds forever. I am pleased and honored to welcome two guests directly connected to Captain Arthur Allen. And without further ado, I'd like to welcome to the podcast on behalf of Don Allen, Jeff Cobset, and myself, I'd like to welcome Austin Rich and Frank Allen, the gentleman. Welcome.

SPEAKER_05 4:10

Thank you so much for having us.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Well, Frank, if you would introduce yourself and um tell us how you're connected to uh Captain Captain Allen.

SPEAKER_05 4:22

Okay, thank you. It's such a privilege and an honor to be here. Um my name is Frank Allen and I'm uh I live in Memphis, Tennessee. I'm a retired financial advisor and part-time film producer. Um Arthur Allen was my uncle. Uh I never got to meet Arthur, but I saw his uh medals on the wall and got to know him clandestinely uh through my dad. My dad was just uh uh an incredible record keeper and kept uh a lot of the articles that were written about Arthur and kept ramblings of a bomber pilot, and I learned about Arthur through my dad.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

What was that like? Um, you know, actually I wanted to ask you, um the the big event in your family's history and in the story of Arthur uh of course comes down to July 26th, uh 1943. And if you would, we know that that Arthur was getting very close to his 25 missions. And if you would, would you please walk us up to that day and describe the events of that day, July 26th, and why that's so important.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

Yes. July 26th um is a very uh special date and a date that I'll always remember. Um we actually published uh or debuted the film on July 26th of 2023 on the 80th anniversary of his last flight. So there's special significance in several ways. Uh but Arthur was um a B-17 pilot. He was based in at Ruffam um in the UK. And uh he that was in Barrie St. Edmunds. So he had been on probably 19, around 19 or 20 flights, and he had just been on a flight where he led the entire 94th bomb group on a flight on the 25th. And for that mission, which was a flawless mission, no casualties, and all the bombs hit the target, he received a Distinguished Flying Cross. The next day, he was appointed to fly to Willenshaven, Germany. So he um he and his crew and his uh his squad flew on the way to Willenshaven, and when he got there, the the bombs, uh smoke bombs had been put out to obscure the targets. So he was diverted to Bremen. And in Bremen, uh as he went into Bremen, the fighter aircraft there were were ready for him. And so it was uh a very, very difficult time. And um he was actually uh shot in the cockpit. Um he was the only casualty, the only wounded in the cockpit. The airplane made it back, the uh co-pilots flew it back safely, and the rest of the crew was fine. Uh but that that was uh Arthur's last flight, and uh so I'll always remember uh that day in history um, you know, for Arthur.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

I had an opportunity to uh read several of the uh documents connected to his uh his last flight, and including remembrances of the co-pilot who was there um and some of the other fellows. And uh it would seem to me that what happened was a uh a bullet pierced the um the skin of the bomber and uh shattered his left humerus, and the bullet continued on into his chest and stopped in his heart, and he was immediately killed and slumped forward over the controls, and uh Rondalez was the co-pilot and was trying to push him off the controls so he could, you know, keep steady flight. Um there's a lot to unpack in that whole story, which we don't have time for, but uh needless to say that the crew, the you know his his death hit everybody hard, didn't it? I mean, it wasn't just the crew.

SPEAKER_05 8:24

Well, it certainly did. As the plane landed, they uh shot flares uh to show that there was wounded on board. And so by the time the aircraft uh stopped, the uh the ambulance was there. Uh it happened to be uh someone that was a close friend of Arthur that uh first got out of the ambulance and went into the cockpit and um you know and and looked at Arthur. And so he went right back to the ambulance and just couldn't he couldn't really handle it. Um so there were several people there. His uh actually his colonel, Colonel uh Moore, was there to give him a distinguished flying cross and actually a uh a promotion. He gave he was gonna give him his captain's bars, uh, which he had earned from his last flight. Um and so Colonel Moore was a personal friend of Arthur's as well. So there was the crew was was uh we interviewed the the the fella, one of the uh Ruffam uh Air Museum control tower. Uh he's the historian there, and he told us he had interviewed a lot of Arthur's crew and that the crew was just really subdued and really taken back and didn't know what to say. They were all silent and in grief, and uh everybody was because uh Arthur was a friend to a lot of people. So yes, but it was uh it was a sad day there for them and turned out to be a sad day for us as well.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Uh Jeff Don, do you guys uh know what the casualty rate was before the the air cruise? What was the life expectancy? I saw a figure today that was like 50 percent.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Are you asking us?

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Oh it depends on what time in the war you're talking about, right? I mean, 42 into 43 was much different than the missions in 44 and and 45. Uh I would argue that uh Captain Allen's time was probably at the height of the casualty uh because at this time, you know, early early on in the war, the targets were coastal France, um, you know, places like that. They weren't they weren't very deep. They're they're they're hitting the Atlantic wall essentially. So missions were shorter, engagement times were shorter, um, any aircraft, you know, the German and the aircraft weren't as developed uh as they were. Uh so when you're talking targets like Willemshaven and Bremen, now they're much deeper missions, there's much more aircraft involved. Um so that there's complications just in rallying these B-17s, right? And and Frank, you were there. England weather is is not like Florida or Texas, uh, right? So um when you're when you're putting up three, four hundred B-17s for one mission as opposed to 15 uh in 1942, accidents happened. So I don't know what the casualty rates were. I I couldn't give you a hard statistic, but I would say that July, 1943, was about the absolute worst time to be doing what what Arthur Allen was doing.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

I can give you some generic averages. It basically depends on the uh type of bomber and the position of the crew. Just some generic numbers here. Lancaster bombers, uh, new recruits' life expectancy was only about two weeks. The average life expectancy of a Lancaster was 21 operation shorties. Uh B-17 bomber in the late 1943, the average life expectancy of a B-17 crew member was 11 missions. The chance of surviving 25 missions was just 25 percent. Uh the life expectancy of a tail gunner was only about six to eight weeks. Overall, the average death of bomber crews numbered, I'm sorry, members was twenty-three. The majority of RAF bomber commander air crews, I'm sorry, that was the average age. Um, let's see, the overall survival rate of an air crew during World War II was about 24%. The remaining air crew were either killed in operations at 51%, killed or wounded in a non-operational accident, 12%, or became prisoners of war or evaders at 13%.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

My goodness. Now, Frank, I think uh, you know, in in Austin, um, we're gonna definitely gonna delve into your connection to this story. But, you know, Frank, uh reading uh Arthur's writings again today, I couldn't help but feel that on that that interim between the seventh and the eighth mission, that he was starting to come to grips with that fact, which Don and Jeff were just talking about, that his reality of getting home was uh very nil, very small, and the chance of getting home. And I feel like that's why he wrote what he did. Um, what in your family has had many opportunities to discuss that the writings. Um, what's what what does your family feel about about Arthur's penning those words at that time?

SPEAKER_05 13:28

Well, it's just amazing. He was such a good writer, um, even before he went. He was a yearbook editor, he wrote letters, he he was uh really good at expressing himself in very unique ways and uh ways that attracted people and pulled people in. Um so it did not surprise us that there was something there that uh came from Arthur that um captured his experience. So we were we were amazed to see it. We weren't really surprised uh after we read it because we knew that that was Arthur. That sounded like him, and um he was a very responsible individual. Um but I I really also think uh well we saw it in some of his writings. One of his letters he had written, I've gone shopping for clothes to put on for my return trip. He said it won't be long. So he was already thinking, okay, you know, if I can make it to a few more missions, I'm I'm close to the end here, and I've already got my clothes. So anyway, it was uh it's just it's really cool to be able to see what was on his mind, what he was experiencing. He talked about the crew members, so we got a really good idea of his relationship with the crew members. Uh we've met some of the crew member families. It's been amazing. Um we met the family uh uh of the let's see, he was not the tail gunner.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

Bombardier.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

He was the bombardier. Uh and he was uh he was the one that got personal uh got Arthur's personal effects and turned them in. He's he sent them to my dad later, much later after Arthur had passed. So the the crew and and several of the crew members said, yeah, Al, they called him Al. Al was one of my best friends. So he just had a really good relationship. He knew them, he knew his crew. Uh I've read other books about World War II where the pilots did not have a great relationship with their crew, um, but that wasn't the case with Arthur. He had an exceptional relationship with his crew and wanted to watch after him. He considered himself their leader and that they were depending upon him. So all of that was evident in his writings.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

What was it like growing up in a home where a gold star home where a service member had died during the war? I mean, I uh my family, we have a gold star, we're a gold star home as well. My um my my grandmother's dad was killed in World War II and the infantry he's buried in Belgium. So, you know, it's something that's passed on, and I'm sure that was the same with y'all. But do you have uh, you know, Frank, do you have like a memory of like when you first became aware that something significant?

SPEAKER_05 16:16

Well, see, I wasn't born, you know, when he was over there. So it was, and I didn't, you know, I knew my grandmother and I never met my grandfather, but the way I learned about Arthur was really through my dad, and I'd come into the house and I'd see those metals up on the wall, and then he'd tell me, here's another story that Arthur art of Arthur's experience, it's in a book, you know, that captures these experiences, the lingering contrails and several other ones. So I didn't I didn't really grow up as a kid thinking about Arthur. Um his name was mentioned several times, but then as I became to be an adult and had my own family, that's when I really began to really appreciate Arthur and miss, you know, miss him and lament the fact that I never met him. Uh because I he was an athlete, he was active, he was, you know, played on the football team, the tennis team. Uh he he did so many things. And I just, you know, the more I knew about Arthur and my you know young adult years, the more I felt like, you know, I realized what I really missed.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

I I think that uh from personal experience as well, I think that that uh appreciation of history and and when you get older and you start having family of your own, you start realizing uh you know the impact of those kind of things. And I I think also that uh I'm just gonna guess here, but I would say that probably your love for him actually led you to the person sitting next to you, this uh amazing fella, um Austin Rich. And uh if you would, would you please uh let us tell our listeners you know how you guys met and uh you know how that uh friendship started, and and then Austin, if you can just kind of then take over and tell us about what you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 18:07

Yeah, I'd be happy to. You know, Austin's father um and I worked together at at Shoemaker Financial as a financial advisor. So I got to know uh Austin because I went on some uh broker dealer trips, some sponsored trips where my performance and his performance were such that we we got rewarded with some special trips. And so this fella uh went on those trips, some of those trips with it. So I got to meet him that way. He actually interned at Schumacher's well, so I got to know him there. So uh I remember one special trip was to uh to Tombstone, uh one of our favorite trips, but uh our you know my wife didn't like it, but uh but I Alison and I loved it. Uh but Austin uh after I retired, or actually just before I retired, um Austin got married, and so we were at the um at his reception, actually, of his wedding, and uh I said, now Austin, I really have a story here that I'd love for you to help me tell. I just really feel the Lord nudging me to honor uh Arthur's life in some way. And every time I passed those medals, which were now in my office after my my father passed, they were now in my office. So every day I'd pass them, I'd say, you know, okay, I hear you, Lord. I hear you. Uh so I I talked to Austin. He had done a documentary before about on his granddad, who was a beekeeper. And so he was dabbling, kind of and stepping in with his little toe, I guess, into the film business. And uh I said, you know, I don't know what this looks like, but would you mind just talking to me uh sometime about that? You know, what what can you do, or can you do anything, or can you direct me to uh help honor, do something to honor Arthur's life? And uh his first response was, Well, let me get married first and go on my honeymoon. I went, okay, that's fair. That's fair, but let's uh let's talk about it when you got some time. So uh sure enough, in November of 21, I guess it was, we sat down, and it's uh as soon as I showed him uh Ramblings of a bomber pilot, what Arthur had written, his his eyes started gleaming and he started smiling and said, Yeah, we can do something with this.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Yeah, as far as for me, um yeah, I mean, as far as when we met, you know, Frank told the story really well. Uh we had some good times in Tucson, but um in Tombstone. But but yeah, the um really beginning for me was uh video production was about seven years ago. Um and started working uh here in Memphis, and one day I decided to create a project on my grandfather, he was a Vietnam veteran and uh a beekeeper, and uh he's someone I've always looked up to, and uh just being able to tell his story was was an incredible experience. And so uh I made that film um about three or four years into my um video production experience, and it was um enough that Frank saw it and a few others saw it and um had me do it create some things for them. And um, you know, whenever I sat down and read Ramblings of Albert and Frank's office, I couldn't believe that the story hadn't already been told. It was just right there. I could picture all of it, and um it was just incredible. And so I told Frank, I I said, yeah, I I I know we can create something, um, but you know, give me some time and let's figure out what that is. And so uh it's been a it's been a few, I think we waited a week or two, we met back. And um I came with some ideas on hey, here's how we can do this, and um we uh started from there.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

This episode brought to you in part by our friends over at 1791 Everyday Carry. Whether you're looking for a holster to home your favorite multi-tool, regardless if you're working on cars, motorcycles, working on a ranch, in a wood shop, 1791 Everyday Carry tool organizers allow you to carry those bulky tools in a streamlined way. Just because you like to be prepared doesn't mean it has to affect your style. With 1791 Everyday Carry Leather Products, you can be prepared without looking disheveled. Discover more about the 1791 Everyday Carry products, simply visit dehyphon410.com forward slash 1791.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

So, what does that look like, Austin? When uh you guys decide you get together, you're gonna decide we're gonna do a film. And I mean, I I wouldn't what wouldn't I even know? Like how what does that look like? How how do you do you create sit down and do an outline together? Right. Right by what what people you're gonna need, or what places you're gonna need to go to, resources, like what does that look like?

SPEAKER_04 23:12

So uh Frank and I talked about it, we figured out sort of from that first meeting we had talked about, you know, here's kind of what you know, maybe it's a documentary a scripted film. And uh if it was gonna be a scripted film, I knew like I probably can't do this at this stage that I'm at, but I know at a documentary, I know everything goes into creating a documentary, having created one before, and even smaller ones. Um I knew that you know I could do this. So um for all for us, we we met the second time. Like I said, I came with ideas, and um just it was basically this vague idea of hey, we should fly in a B-17, we should go to Europe, we should um track down any other thing that we can that is a connection to Arthur that is a step that he took in his life, um, just to sort of recreate not only what he went through, um, but also to sort of give Frank uh an opportunity to retrace his steps and to be able to experience the places, the things that Arthur did. So uh that was really the original goal. And uh, you know, Frank and I were talking about it, and he was like, that sounds great. Um, you know, let's figure out exactly what we need to do from here. And um from then on, it was I was running, I was doing as much research as I could. Uh several months went into that of just figuring out not just Arthur's story, which I needed to have everything, like every single detail of his life I wanted to understand and to fully grasp before I undertook this fully. And um that's was my main goal. And then from there it was to research the people that knew him to see if anyone was still alive. I remember going through his yearbooks and literally just researching every single person's name, uh, not finding any luck, uh, as it was, you know, 80 years, uh 80 plus years ago. So but ultimately um it was worthwhile because you know we continue to do that research, and later on the line that helped me find Cliff Hall, who was the historian in um England that we were able to interview. He was alive, he was 12 years old and grew up right beside the base in England, and uh now he's the historian in England. So uh also got to interview Lucky Luckadoo. So being able to track these people down and uh understand um the importance of doing your research beforehand, before you get started on something like this, and uh also researching um B-17s that are still flyable and that would let you fly on them uh and rent them out and be able to bring cameras on and everything. It wasn't uh super easy, it had some no's. Uh we're not interested. We we don't want to have to deal with that. It's like, okay, no worries, uh, we'll find someone else. So uh ultimately we we were able to fly on B-17 Texas Raiders, and um very sad that later on, I think we were the last flight that um they had before their flight in Dallas later that year um 2022 where they uh crashed uh in-air collision. But um yeah, I'm very grateful for everyone on that crew that was able to fly and uh take us. It was um it was a very special time, very special experience for both of us every single step of the way.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Documentary. And uh your mic cut out.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Start over again with your question, your follow-up. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

I'm gonna say uh Jeff, you got can you hear me okay?

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

You got to actually see the documentary as well. Um and you got to um well, I'll let you go, I'll let you take it. I know Texas writers are specialty.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Yeah, uh gosh. Frank Austin, uh listen, I could talk for weeks about a B-17. Um and the listeners, they know that uh this has been my thing for for my entire life. I I I think I was uh about 12 or 13 when I met uh Captain Robert Morgan, pilot Memphis Bell, uh, at an air show in the mid-90s, and then that was it, right? Like I'm I'm hooked forever. And uh I I told the guys uh right before you came on, I just kind of try to do a quick count, you know, estimate. I I have about 35 books specifically on B-17s or written by a B-17 crewman, so it's a huge part of my interest in World War II. Um I can't say enough about that. Uh as for Texas Raiders, you know, we don't want to we don't want to beat that one uh too hard, but yeah, I I happen to be at that air show when that happens, so we've we've discussed that several times, and and you know, uh obviously this was not planned. Uh but Austin, you have also done an amazing job keeping the legacy of the Texas Raiders uh forever. Obviously, not planned, of course, um, but uh just such a beautiful thing. Um I watched the documentary once, Dennis shared it with me. It was a thing of beauty. I I saw it several months before I got to meet John Luckadu. So it was just it was like this, oh man, this is gonna be awesome. Like I've seen this guy in an interview, I've seen him in a documentary, and of course, when I met him and I shook his hand and I mentioned that, he oh, and of course, I'm in the my full uniform, eighth Air Force uniform, as a as a bombardier on a B-17. So we had a good old time after we talked about ramblings. Um yeah, it was it was a neat experience. Uh then I shared it again. So my son was with me at that air show, and his best friend and his best friend's father surprised him with a flight in Texas Raiders that morning. So he got to go up that morning, he was wearing a GoPro, took a picture with the crew, the whole nine yards. It was the last flight where a you know a paid customer was on the aircraft. Two hours later it's on the ground. Um, so I had uh my son invited you know his buddy over. We watched Ramblings again and brought tears to the kid's eye. You know, just just seeing it again. And I mean I I get it, it's it's powerful, uh, very powerful. And um, you know, I'll guys, I'll I'll have to go here in a little bit and I'll talk all night. And Dennis knows you're gonna have to just shut me down with B17s, but um and as a veteran, as a combat veteran myself, I understand the importance of making sure that you know that this doesn't get forgotten. And I steer away from from statistics for a reason. And you know, if we say, oh, 2,500, the okay, that's an estimate. You don't want to be the it was actually 25 and 1, and you forgot that one, so I s I shy away from it. But the fact that the Eighth Air Force lost more guys killed in action than the entire United States Marine Corps in World War II is a testament to what Arthur did, and it's just as much of a testament that you two guys and others and Frank and your family, uh Arthur's immortal now. And I remember having conversations with my guys over there. Um you try to look on the bright side, right? When you first go over, it's never you. Yeah, I'm not gonna get hit. No, not my mama's baby boy. Uh but then as things start happening around you, then your mindset changes to it might be me, but probably not. Uh, and if you're there long enough and you're like, uh at any given moment, you know, bullets aren't prejudiced. So once you come to that realization, you have to face it, and uh the conversations that me and my guys would have is it's better than you know, dying of cancer uh painfully, or it's better than a drunk crosses a double yellow line and you don't walk away. Uh your death becomes meaningful to more than just your family and friends. And and the fact that Arthur uh could not have a more meaningful life and could not have a more meaningful death, it's just so special to know you guys, to to be introduced to this story from Dennis. He knew immediately I was gonna get hooked uh on ramblings. I mean he uh i it's it's such a special thing. Um but to be immortalized, um I don't think Arthur would have asked for anything more. In fact, he probably wouldn't have asked for it. He'd have made sure that everybody remembered everybody in that aircraft with him that day, and everybody on his left, right, upper echelon, below him, and everywhere, you know, in between uh on that day over Bremen. Um I truly believe that, just from what I know in his writings. So well done to both of you. And I know he's he's smiling, and he's probably giving you guys a big fat salute. Absolutely. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:59

Well, and I I appreciate you saying that so much. And I want to share one, I want to piggyback on that by saying when we went to Villenshaven and we went into the the Air Naval, the Naval Air Museum, and you see all these exhibits, and they explain uh what they're showing in the exhibits. And in one of the exhibits, it showed some writings about the German strategy, which was a U-boat, you know, centric strategy. They wanted to build submarines and U-boat, get them out there, get them out in the Atlantic, and and kill people kill our troops before they came over. And and what they said in this German naval museum was that strategy never got off the ground because of the bomber pilots and the bomber raids. And as soon as I read that, it just it gave me an additional uh, you know, um significance for Arthur that and and his peers, that they they saved the world. I mean, this was a it that what they did was so important to this to to knock off the strategy of the Germans, and so our strategy was better than theirs because of people like Arthur and doing exactly what he did. So when I walked out of that museum and I took a picture of that writing, and it just warmed my heart so much more for Arthur uh and gave me a much deeper appreciation for what he did and why he did it and how significant it was.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Absolutely. Yeah, I would argue there was no insignificant mission flown uh in in that war, uh, some maybe more significant than others. And I do want to say this, I found it interesting first coming across the story that Bremen was a secondary target. It it's still to me, it's all it's like a it's almost like a paradox because when you're prepping for a mission on the coast at a U-boat uh facility, and then all of a sudden your secondary target is Bremen of all places. I mean, Bremen was a hot spot. Bremen was a widowmaker. And it uh it just still to the I wish I could find more information on this because I mean I understand obviously we all know every every mission had contingency targets, right? Whether they're socked in smoke screens, whatever it is, they had they had to have a contingency target, but gosh, it that mission changes in so many ways when that smoke screen obscures Willemshaven to go to Bremen of all places. I mean, I just think about how much more fuel you're expending you didn't think that you had to expend. So that means did you w what is the bomb load, right? Because the bomb's trying to hit the sub pens under and you saw how many feet thick of concrete, you know, that's a much different bomb than you may be using for uh a ball bearing factory or something like that in Bremen. So what was the what was the bomb load? Uh even going to Bremen, what what was you know what was the actual target and were they prepared for it? And you know, the it's just those are the things that kind of go through my mind. Um to for that to be a secondary target, uh Arthur had to have known, ooh, you know, we uh we drew a short straw today, boys. We better buckle up because what a ride that's gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 36:32

Yes. Well, also the the fighter escorts played a role in in his slice ban. You know, I know when uh Doolittle came in, I guess the the spring of the next year and said, No, we gotta have some fighter escorts here with extended range. And wasn't it the P-51s that at that time? So that changed the whole air war. You know, and so at the time Arthur was flying a bomber, he was a he was a fighter and a bomber because he didn't have anybody, you know, watching, you know, going ahead of him and and taking out the fighters. He had to take out he and his peers, you know, had to take out the fighters and then drop the bombs. So that was another thing I learned in this, you know, exercise and going through this and learning a little bit more about what he had to face and what what was going on with the war and and the strategies involved.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

Yeah, you're absolutely right. The Mustang completely changed the the just the whole complexion over there, as did General Doolittle coming in under uh Ira Akre. Uh the tactics were not working. Um, but he didn't have the same uh resources that Doolittle had. Of course, you know, uh a lot of times their missions were being escorted by Spitfires, P-47s, sometimes P-38s, but nothing that had the range of the 51. Uh and and also the fact that uh the escorts were allowed to go after targets. That was something that Doolittle, when he first came on board, said, What are these guys doing just flying next to us? What is that doing? And that was the order of the day from Acre. Um, after Doolittle came in and said, No, they're they're there to kill Germans, they're there to take airplanes out of the sky. I don't care if they're hitting them on the ground on takeoff or 30,000 feet, we're gonna take out German airplanes. So that was a whole other complexion that that drastically changed uh going into 1944 for sure. And like I say, guys, I could I could talk all night about it. But Austin, I mean, I want to congratulate you, Austin. I mean, like I said, just a fabulous documentary. I I can watch it over and over. And I know Don uh Don and I met uh on on a uh a little film thing, so uh we've seen some of the the ins and outs of how those things work, and and thank goodness, because I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that. Uh so I'll turn it over to Don.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Just a friendly reminder: the October Patreon Prize giveaway is coming up at the end of the month. If you've yet to register, head over to WTSPworldwar 2.com, click on the Patreon link, sign up, and subscribe. All you have to do is be a paid active subscriber. At the end of the month, we're going to pick the winner for this month's prize, which is a beautiful prize pack provided by our friends over at 1791 Everyday Carry, valued over $100, containing different items from 1791 Everyday Carry, including multi-tool carriers, flashlight carriers, the items you need to release the bulk from your pocket from the daily items you must carry to complete your job. For more information, head over to dyphen410.com forward slash 1791 EDC. Once again, all you have to do to get your name entered into the Prize Pack giveaway is go to WTSP WorldWar II.com, click on the Patreon link, sign up and subscribe. You have to be an active subscriber by the end of the month, your name will automatically be entered into the prize pack giveaway. So, from what I understand from hearing other documentarians, one of the key differences, and it I think logistically it has to be a little more lively and I could see possibly build some anxiety, but make it more interesting and fun is when you have a a movie in and of itself, you have a script, storyboard, things change as you go. But with a documentary, you have an outline, you have a story, but you go to do your first interview, and that interview might provide you stories you never heard of before, or perhaps even contacts you didn't have previous, and now your whole project has changed. You're like, wow, we had A, B, and C, somebody just gave us an entire new alphabet of contacts and places to go. How did you guys keep the the project going when you're constantly getting new and new information fed to you?

SPEAKER_04 40:45

So uh that was a big challenge. I mean, it's a great point to make because you know, we have our outline, and uh the whole idea with filming with Lucky. Um I knew that I'd wanted to film with a um not only a World War II veteran, but mainly a bomber pilot. And uh looking for one, not finding luck, not finding ways to contact him, it was a challenge, but um literally getting that name late into the process, as in um three months before we are gonna debut the film. And so getting that name and then reading the book and setting up the interview all the way until we ended up filming on July, in July like 1st or 2nd. July 6th. July 6th. And uh the film was set to debut the 26th, so we had to immediately get in, edit that, and find a way that it for where it perfectly fit into the film. And um that was just a that's just a great example of something that, you know, hey, this is a documentary, sure we have this, we had this set date, and everything's moving along perfectly, and then wait, there's this awesome opportunity, and how do we get that into this? And so um it became a like, hey, what do you think about this? And Frank was excited, and so we we made it happen, and um the editing, you know, it took a little while, but we made that happen as well. Uh but yeah, that's just another example of, like you said, you know, you're going along, you have your outline, and it's really just being disciplined to the story. Story is the key, story is the king, I should say, and um you don't want to stray away from that. And ultimately you might have these different avenues and different things to go down, and you just have to ask yourself: does this fit to what we want to do? Does this fit to honoring Arthur? Does this fit to honoring veterans that not only sacrificed but also paid the ultimate price of their life? And so that was the key for us was in each and every single one of those decisions we had to make was do we do that? And um ultimately it came down to one or both of us, and um it wasn't always easy, but some of them were.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

Well, I want to I want to add to that because uh give you my perspective on that, because when Austin said we're going to Dallas, we're gonna film Lucky, we're gonna interview him, I said, Well, where are the questions? He went, Well, you're gonna come up with them. I went, Oh, oh, okay. He said, But don't go, don't get on that airplane unless you've read his book. You have to read his book. I went, Okay, all right. So I got in there and I started reading, and on the plane coming down, I'm like, I'm writing my. Seven or eight, ten questions, whatever. And I what I thought was when we went down there, because we were so close to the debut, was well, we might get a quote, we might get a picture, we might get something, get him holding his book or something, but we're not gonna get much. And when I got down there, I mean, we went for we filmed probably almost two hours straight without a stop. I mean, it was just question after question. He was so articulate, he didn't ramble, uh, as you saw in the movie. I mean, he but but I was thinking when I left there, how are we gonna we got so much to use? And and his dad, Austin's dad was telling me, now don't don't let Austin make this film more than an hour and a half. You can't do it. I went, I think we just went past it because I don't know what we're gonna get rid of. There was so much good stuff. We just we you know we tried to fit it all in.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

That was gonna be my next question as someone who does a lot of video editing and audio editing myself. The the phrase is you know, leaving the baby on the cutting room floor, and when you have that so much great content with such a great character, but that character is just supposed to be an additive to this great recipe you have, and then all of a sudden you have this content, this interview that could almost be a project in and of itself, and you have to cut and whittle and cut and whittle, and not only cut and whittle, but you have to do it in a way that it contextuously contextually makes sense when you take that two-hour interview and cut it down to 10-15 minutes and still get as much of that gold nugget in there. How did you guys labor over that and how did you make you know between the two of you decide how much time of this project do you want to dedicate to that one awesome sit-down?

SPEAKER_04 45:51

Um, so that was that was the hardest part, to be honest. I mean, uh Frank had some things that he said, you know, I I really think these two things, I think there's a couple things that you had said, you know, I think that should be in there. And um I I agreed wholeheartedly. Um, but you know, as we went, it was you know, back to those things that I said earlier. Does this serve Arthur's story? And there's a lot of foreshadowing in some of the things he says. He mentions Bremen and how hard it was, and he mentions some different things on different flights that he had, um, that it it almost just alluded like to later on when we would find out what happened to Arthur. And um that was my goal for this film. I mean, at no point, you know, could have started off early in the film and tell you what happens to Arthur and you you go along and you know, knowing already, but I didn't. I ultimately had the audience find out late into the film, near the near the end. And um I think that part that whole interview really set up for an experience of hey, what did Arthur experience? And then ultimately a great foreshadowing of this is what's gonna happen to him. And um, so yeah, that as far as a specific time, um, I didn't really sit down and say, hey, I have seven minutes for this. I sat down and said, hey, what is does this fit or does it not? And uh sadly there were things that didn't, uh incredible things that that he had to share. Um but like you said, you know, it hurts a part of you uh because it's like I want this in there, but ultimately it doesn't serve the story, and so um you have to cut it. But ultimately, it was just an incredible experience, and I I could not thank Lucky enough. I mean, not only for the interview, but all that he did for our country and just every story that he had, just so unbelievable.

SPEAKER_05 48:13

So it was just amazing. Well, and Don, I I think I really truly believe that one of the things that Lucky did for our film was just to bring incredible um credibility to our film. Somebody, he was there, he was actually there, and the experience he gave were very vivid, very so he did a great job. So I I would also tell you, when when we left, as we were packing up after the interview, I said to Austin, I said, We got so much good stuff here. I said, I that's why I'm paying you the big bucks, is to figure out what to use, but not only what to use, but the flow. The flow he had, I mean to me, I I was involved in everything that was filmed, but I had no idea how it was going to flow. And I said, that's why I hired you, and that's why I'm paying you, and that's what you got to figure out is how to best tell this story because we've got so much good stuff. And I that's where I think he really earned his keep, and he did a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_04 49:18

You know, uh, real quick, he said something about him adding the credibility, credibility to our film, and one of the things that was the coolest to me was they actually flew on us one of the same missions. Uh so we were talking about different missions and found out, hey, they went to the same place on the same date. Good chance that that was the same. They were in the skies at the same time. So uh pretty remarkable if you think about it that way.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

No, we were kind of talking about earlier how creating a documentary leads you down different roads. Let's be honest, um, Austin, somewhere on a file server, external hard drive, SD card, you have tons, I'm assuming, B-roll. I'm sure you got to the point where Frank was like, why are you constantly shooting B-roll? As an editor, you can never have too much B-roll, trust me. You can do a lot with B-roll. You didn't get this. Well, we can do voiceover and slap some B-roll in there. But what I want to get to is, let's be honest, you have a ton of B-roll from two different historical figures that one we've lost, i.e., the Texas Raider. I'm sure you have a ton of footage that you shot that day that didn't make it into the documentary. And then, you know, the interview that you have the luck to do, that may present itself to you guys four years from now in a different project that you never even considered doing because of the amount of B-roll you were lucky enough to have and the amount of time you were lucky enough to sit down and interview him for two hours. That you know, that's something you guys may be able to help preserve historically in a future project.

SPEAKER_05 50:51

Well, and the same thing would apply to our conversation with Cliff Hall. We interviewed him all day long, and so there's a lot of B-roll, I think, associated with that as well.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

Yeah, it's it's a great point. I mean, I uh I mean you've you've got my wheels turning now, but but yeah, I mean you I just um I know that especially when it comes to the Texas Raiders, uh it's a really good point because I I filmed that plane every inch. Um the day before we did the flight, we had a day where we just filmed a bunch of footage all over the plane and looking to see what different shots would look like and test shots, and none of that made it in the film. So there's a whole day of tons of content that um is just there.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

So even if it yeah, I just had an idea. Even in what even if it's not Texas Raider specific, you have 8k footage that you can even do, just a little virtual tour of what it's like to pass through. Because even in the documentary, you did some, you showed a little bit of what it was like to pass through some of those corridors. Beautiful for those of you listening at home. I watched the uh documentary, I believe it's on Netflix, it's on a few other places. The videotography, the photography, it's a masterpiece, especially when you're up in the air and just going through Texas Raiders and the different areas throughout the plane, the sneak little peek over into the cockpit, seeing the it's a beautiful masterwork of videography, and you know that's an option too. Now, you guys mentioned Cliff Hall, and I'm I I had his name down here. How lucky were you guys to have access to him? And how did he come to your being aware of him? And at what point did somebody see, yeah? So apparently, um, we're gonna have to have uh entire luggage full of cameras and microphones because we're going across the pond to do an interview.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

Yes, that is uh a really great story. I oh, and one thing the film is on Roku and Tubi, and Netflix. If I mean we would love that, but uh it's on Airverse as well. Um, but but yeah, Netflix, piss up, but uh in all seriousness, the as far as the story for Cliff Hall, it's it's really incredible. So um I'm reading Lingering Contrails, it's actually back here, but um reading a story about a 12-year-old boy and his experience, and um he's got different quotes on different things, and it's in this book, and at the bottom it says Cliff Hall. He was 12 years old and grew up right beside the base. And I was like, man, I've got to find this guy. So I get on my laptop and I'm looking, search Cliff Hall, nothing. And um close, I closed the book and I was like, man, and I mentioned earlier that I had um done a lot of research on people in his yearbook, and that was around the same time I was feeling a little down because I had looked for all these names and didn't come across any. And um, and if I did, they'd already passed. So um because you can imagine the different name combinations. I mean, you look up John Smith and you're gonna find a million John Smiths, you're gonna find a million of these different people uh online, and so it's not very easy to track down somebody that doesn't have a large online presence at this point. So I closed that book and I'm thinking, man, I just I wish I could get a break. Uh I was hoping that I can find this guy. And uh a couple days before that, I had joined this Facebook group. Um, it was for the 94th bomb group, and uh I was really just hoping to find some more information on different things, different people, and just see what was out there. And my main goal was to maybe track down crew member families. So once I joined that group, um uh it they didn't let me in until you know you have to go through this approval process. Well, the next day, after opening and reading that book and that quote, I'm scrolling on there, they had approved me, and a name pops up, Cliff Hall. And uh it's a photo of him and uh this other guy that his name is uh Graham. He uh he's all he works at the um Ruffin Control Tower, and he had a picture of him and just this story about him, and he was alive and he was there, and he's the historian today. And so I I figured out how to contact them, I got in touch, and uh it took a little while, but we were able to make it happen, and uh it was just this long process of striking out with these different names, and ultimately, if I wouldn't have had like read that quote the day before, I don't know if that name would have meant so much to me whenever I read it on that Facebook group, and uh sure I might have uh been like, oh cool, who is this guy? Um but knowing that he was 12 years old, grew up on the base, and he had that credibility of I know these guys, he literally knew different crew members of Arthur, so uh it was just it was just incredible.

SPEAKER_05 56:25

But because he was in charge of the 94th uh reunions. So he, you know, I don't know at what point in time, but at some point in time he was put in charge of the reunions. So as he was doing the reunions and inviting people, then Arthur's crew came and so he recounted the whole uh experience of meeting Arthur's crew and taking them out on the base, taking them out on the runway, and one of them, Keith Muir, who was I forgot which one, Keith Muir was a radio operator. Um anyway, Keith Muir is one of the crew members, and he was on this reunion trip, and so the the rest of the group moved from one place to another, and Keith just stayed right still, and Cliff went back over to him and said, So, you okay? You okay? He said, you know, this is the spot. This is the very spot where they removed Arthur's body from the airplane, pronounced him dead. And I, you know, and when he said that, I went, Are you kidding me? Can you take me there? He said, Well, yeah, I can take you there. I had no clue that that was going to be something we were gonna be able to do when we went there. But he was telling us the story about the crew and the reunion, and that led us right to being able to go to the spot which you see in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 57:41

And to be honest, I think there are things like that I had no idea that were going to happen. But it's the joy of making a documentary. You don't expect something, and it's like, hey, here's this. And uh I couldn't have planned that. Um and it is just an incredible experience.

SPEAKER_05 57:59

Well, and the experience too, the things that you don't see in the movie, we it was about two months before the debut. Uh Austin sent out a tweet saying, Okay, we've got ramblings of a bomber pilot's coming your way. Be on the lookout. And two months later, week two months later, we get a uh a tweet back from a lady who says, Hey, I got your tweet. We didn't even know who this was. We didn't send it to her personally. I don't know how tweet works, but I guess it goes to the whole universe. But this lady calls Amber and says, uh, tweets and says, Well, thank you for sending that. Just want you to know that my grandfather was Arthur's bombardier. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 58:38

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_05 58:40

Carl Gross was the bombardier. And so she said, you know, that's my grandfather. And the second part of it was it, and by the way, my grandfather named his only son after Arthur.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 58:54

So then they came down to the debut of the the second debut, basically the public debut in September. We showed it at the Malco Theater for a couple of weeks, and they were there for the premiere of that. We got to meet them and their family, and they brought all this stuff with them that they had gotten from you know from uh from Carl. So it was stuff like that that was happening. It seemed like left and right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:17

Um, I mean, just millions of different things that incredible stories that we you know we get to know and uh we we cherish, but um sadly didn't make it into the film.

SPEAKER_02 59:31

You guys could put together a companion book for the documentary about uh hey, that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

If we still have behind the scenes if we still had DVDs, you could do the director's cut with all the lost footage, but you know, that's no longer a thing. Frank, let me ask you a question. Um my grandfather fought in World War II. I've had a hard time finding information. Uh Dennis's grandfather fought in World War II. He has a lot of information. Um, you have a lot of information on your relative and you're working on his project. Um, a few years back, I had the honor to interview the author of the book, The Bones for My Grandfather, Mr. Clay Bonyman Evans. He wrote about his grandfather, Lieutenant Alex Bonyman Jr., who died on Peleliu and was posthonously awarded a Medal of Honor. Later that year, I'm a World War II reenactor in Florida. We went to Alabama to a location called Fort Morgan, and it was sponsored by the Alabama Marine Corps League, and we had a very authentic recreation of the Peleliu landings, including what was supposed to be two landing crafts, but we were down to one due to a hurricane. And the reason I bring that up is we actually had Clay out there in a uniform and we put him on the landing craft, and I inadvertently took a selfie, and in the selfie, you could see he had a thousand mile stair because he had worked on his book, he had been to Peleliu, he had seen the battlegrounds, but now here he is on the vehicle on the delivery system that his grandfather landed on the beaches of Peleliu, and you can see it almost put a cherry on his journey because now he got to see the battlefields, now he's riding in the equipment, wearing the uniform. You had a very similar experience. You set out on this project, you tracked down all the information, you're doing interviews, now you've you're flying in a B-17, so now you you got to experience the delivery system, and then you found yourself at the airport. Did that feel like a perfect period for your journey on discovering what he went through?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:41

It really was. And you know, quite honestly, there were several of those perfect moments that I had not really envisioned, some that I had, but most that I hadn't, and I thought, you know, gosh, this is really amazing. And so flying on the B-17 was one, um, you know, getting to talk to uh Cliff and going to the spot where Arthur was pulled out of the grave and then going to Arthur's, you know, gravesite. You know, I I had envisioned that, and I really wanted to go there and um pay my respects. And so there were several of those perfect moments that I some of which I I I thought I never even thought I would have. But it just did definitely put a cherry on top because all I had known about Arthur was what I had read. Um you know, I'd seen pictures, but there were a lot of newspaper articles that uh gave me some really good information. Um, you know, when I went to the Naval Air Museum and saw that exhibit, you know, in Germany, that kind of put another cherry on it. Uh, when I went in the submarine there at Villenshaven, that was like, wow, never thought I'd be doing this. Uh so yes, there were several opportunities for me to just kind of you know have a body check or a brain check and say and a heart check to say, oh my gosh, this is this is more than I could ever have imagined. So it was amazing, amazing experience, and the learning was awesome. And the just the tug on my heart, you know, just to know that I was somewhere that Arthur had been. Um you know, and then being there in Bremen, right next to that, I guess it's Valentin, is that what they call that site uh where the submarine site was, being there was another moment like this is where he breathed his last, right in the skies, right above me. So those were all points in time that I really didn't have a chance to really imagine until it got there, and it was just very moving for me, very emotional.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

On the uh 15th of May, Arthur is on his, he did mission number three. They bombed Emden, Germany. And do you fellas know who uh Dr. Joseph Goebbels was in Germany, the Nazi uh propaganda minister? Yes, yeah. Uh a lot considered uh historians debate on, but a lot considered many considered that he was the number two guy uh as far as power in Nazi Germany uh behind Hitler. Um on the 15th of May, Arthur and his group bomb Emden Germany. The following day, Dr. Joseph Goebbels makes this entry in his diary. The overall military situation causes us some worry. War in the air is becoming more and more bitter from day to day. The day raids by American bombers are creating extraordinary difficulties. If this condition continues and we find no proper antidote for these day raids, we shall have to face exceptionally serious consequences, which in the long run will prove unbearable. How does that to make you feel that uh Arthur Arthur's actions directly made their way into the hand of Dr. Joseph Goebbels as he penned those words he was thinking of already?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:06

Wow. Wow. It just it takes me back. It takes me back to a place that I never knew really I could go back to and just be a part of his life in some way, and just be even more proud of him than I already was. But uh before this mission, you know, he he was more of a kind of a figment of my imagination that I just heard really good stories about. Um but just to to to research it to this level and to know even more specifically what he did, when, why, how, and who he was with, and all and how all those people felt about him. You know, it just made it a whole lot more personal for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Absolutely. Absolutely. It changed my life and I can't help but thinking that Arthur Allen will be very, very um Arthur would be very proud of what you both have done. And he had to have smiled because that far-reaching impact of your guys' documentary. Um, if if if you could have been transported to Jeff's, who had to he had to step out, but if you could be transported to his office, Jeff was sitting at one desk, I was sitting at the other, and we had our notepads out and our computer screens. It looked like DEF CON 3 command center with screens up all over the place, uh U-junction joints and multiple screens sliding this picture here of Arthur and putting up this map and bringing out. We we went through that bombers, the ramblings of a bomber pilot line by line. Sometimes we cried, sometimes we laughed. Uh, all the time we had uh goosebumps. And I'm very proud of you fellas for what you've done. I know the work that goes into it personally. I know that um, I know the expense, I know the uh sleepless nights, uh staying up when you should have probably gone to bed. Um, and that driving force to honor. Uh so you know, I'm be you know, I'm not nobody, but I just you know want you fellas to know I'm very proud of you and I appreciate what you guys did. And you know, and Jeff said it just beautifully. What Def Jeff was saying was just gorgeously said, is that, you know, um he's immortal. You know, he's immortal now. And um thank you for doing that.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:33

Thank you. This has been quite an honor. Uh I'm I'm very grateful to you. Uh I'm grateful to you, and thank you for loving Arthur vicariously through me and us. And um, you know, I know you've you've seen a lot of examples of people uh giving their lives and sacrificing for their country. And um thank you for this opportunity to talk about him. I love talking about him. I love talking about what we did and love talking about this guy, what a great job he did.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:02

Well, yeah, and I'm very thankful as well. And um, you know, one of the there's a song from a country music singer who's uh from my hometown. Is uh song's called Have You Forgotten? It's actually about um 9-11, but um and about you know how we need to fight and all these things. But you know, I think when it comes to these stories, you know, I want to ask the question, have you forgotten? And um there's these people, tons of people that have experiences and lots of families, gold star families that have experienced these things. And um I just hope that we haven't forgotten as individuals, you know, and that we continue to fight. And uh that's been my heart through all this, is just to fight for these stories, for the people that sacrificed, and even uh but and also especially for the ones that uh ultimately paid the price, but really for all, and that's really my goal.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

So the name of the documentary is the Ramblings of a Bomber Pilot. Starting with you, Frank. If people want to find you on the internet or reach out to you getting more information about your family or your any of your projects, do you have any websites, social media addresses you want to get out there?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:19

Well, we can go to ramblingsfilm.com is our our website. Um, you know, uh that's the best way I know how to reach us, ramblingsfilm.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

Thank you guys so much. Go ahead, Austin.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

I was gonna say um Samuel Austin Rich.com and uh I believe I'm Samuel Austin Rich on most social media platforms. So awesome. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:49

And as always, and as always, we want to thank each and every one of you for tuning in for this week's episode of the What's the Scuttle Up Podcast. And just a reminder, as we do with every episode, if you're interested in seeing the gentleman we're talking to, seeing photos, links, and all that, please head over to WTSPworldwar 2.com. That's WTSP WWII.com. On the homepage, you'll see a thumbnail for this episode. Click on it, you'll see photos, links, and all that pertinent information for myself, Dennis Blocker, Jeff Copsetta, Frank Allen, and Austin Rynch. Thank you guys so much, and we will talk to you all next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:22

This has been a Digital Fortin production.