Call Him Father

When Life Falls Apart: Floods, Faith, and Finding Hope

• Call Him Father • Season 1 • Episode 3

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In this episode of Call Him Father, Micah and Pastor Taylor talk through what it looks like to trust God when life feels like it is falling apart.

After losing one of his close friends, Micah and Emma’s house flooded, forcing them into another unexpected season of grief, stress, and uncertainty. In the middle of it, they experienced overwhelming generosity from their church, their community, and people who stepped in to help when they had no idea what to do next.

This conversation covers faith in suffering, Christian community, generosity, trusting God while still taking responsibility, what to say to young men who feel hopeless, why church matters, reconciliation, forgiveness, personality, marriage, and why Jesus is the ultimate model for manhood.

Call Him Father is a podcast tackling hard questions about faith, life, and following Jesus in a modern world.

Have a question for a future episode?
DM us on Instagram: @call.him.father

Have a question for a future episode? DM us on Instagram: @call.him.father

Follow Call Him Father for more honest conversations about faith, life, and following Jesus.

Intro

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to another episode of Call Him Father. This week we're talking about one of the greatest expressions of generosity that I've ever seen from a church, um, how that affected me and just sharing the story of it. We're also getting into what to say to young men who've lost hope, the balance between trusting God and actually doing the work, and what it looks like to use Jesus

Micah’s house flooded

SPEAKER_00

as your model for who to be as a man. Check it out.

SPEAKER_03

How are you feeling? You feeling good? Good as I can. Okay. Fair enough. It's acceptable. Yeah, it's been a week. It has been. Shall we start there? Sure. Let's do it. Okay, Micah, you your house drowned.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, my house drowned. Uh, we were already dealing with the whole grooving process of losing one of my best friends. So it's been a month as of tomorrow that Dylan passed, and then last week, um the rain in Washington uh caused our house to drown. So um it's a crazy thing to wake up to. Yeah, well, it was more like people in the street were like it felt a little bit like um like um a movie, or like do you ever seen the movie 2012? Oh man. It's like uh do you remember in 2012 when people thought the world was gonna end? Mm-hmm. So they made it in the in 2009 about what they thought 2012 was gonna look like. Um and yeah, there was the whole street, there was like people with their garage doors open, like putting stuff higher up. And um, I was like, there's a clip of me that my roommate got where I was like, I'm not gonna let the water in this house. It's not gonna get in if I have anything to do with it, do about it. And um, I was wrong, but um yeah, we're still here.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, it was a crazy week. That was so we had in our area the last big floods were 2021. And uh those were like that was like the hundred-year flood. Yeah, and this go-around seems to be worse than even that for the community that you're in, surrounding areas. So, I mean, walk me through that, man. So you you guys, recent home buyers is your first home, which congrats. Thank you. Very much an accomplishment for a young married couple to be able to do something like that, in particular in our area. Yeah. And then first year, no flood insurance. No, and how did that happen, by the way? Because I thought it was a requirement to get a to get a loan on a house that you have to have flood insurance. So, how did that even happen?

SPEAKER_00

Well, so we're on an FHA loan and we're in a 500-year floodplain. Um, so they didn't require it, but it was like 600 bucks a year. I got a quote for it in October, and I just didn't do it. I should have listened to my wife another lesson than that.

SPEAKER_03

Eva. Well, nobody on the camera can see that little smile over on that couch back there from your old lady grilling you down. Dang. 600

Living in a 500-year floodplain

SPEAKER_03

bucks, man. Yeah. Shoot. So 500-year floodplain, that essentially means like it's not gonna flood for five years old. Well, that's it.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I was like, okay, we got another 496 years to go. I won't be around for that. And then it was like six months, we barely even made it six months or whatever, and then here's a new pool in our house, a waterfront property. Oh my gosh, man, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03

So you guys got the news that atmospheric river going down, yeah, gonna be flooding. Well, I remember you shot me over like a screenshot of like the flood zone, yeah, and you guys were looking good where you're at. Just barely. I was I was thinking it was just gonna maybe lap up on your lawn a little bit, if that, but seemed to not be as hopeful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I kept telling people, like, hey, I think our house is gonna flood, or like, and a reaction I would usually get is like, Oh, you think it'll like get onto the street or like up to the garage? I'm like, nah, like they're saying it's gonna be in the house. Um, and uh, because all of our neighbors, one of our neighbors had been through this three times. Really? And I'm like, bro, why do you still live here? And why do we have houses here? Like, and they're still developing that area too. And I'm like, um what was that person's answer? Did they answer that? Or did you actually ask that, or was that just I didn't I didn't ask that, but I'm just like after this, I can't imagine they like want to stick around. But they were like, they're really cool. They were also Christians and um very helpful. They like brought over a big trailer of sandbags, um, and so helped us bag up the garage and the side door uh and uh the little the crawl space and the little vents to the crawl space. So wow.

SPEAKER_03

So okay, so you guys got the information. It's gonna you're gonna experience some flooding. Yeah, you go to work getting appliances up, yeah, like moving a bunch of your stuff in the garage up to your second story, yeah, rearranging the house. Walk me through that night, man.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it we were already overwhelmed with all the Dylan stuff, like we'd just been struggling, and so that was like the third week of grieving. We're like, all right, this is the week that we get back up on our feet. We had two weeks to be sad, and now let's kind of get a routine going, try and get back into the flow of things, um, you know, do my morning runs, uh, wake up early. And we were doing good, and then we had the news, like they were like, it's gonna flood. And I texted uh the mayor, because he was like family friends with my parents. You texted the mayor, and he was like, I was like, dude, should we actually be worried about this? Like, should we move our stuff? And he's like, Yeah, um just get the garage and cleared out, um anything out of the house. And so I was I was pretty confident it wasn't gonna get in the house, but everyone was saying otherwise. But I usually err on the side of optimism. Um and so Emma's dad is like a a workhorse, and he came over with a box truck and he just started like they were just and Noah was there too, so it was like two forces of nature. And um they filled up the box truck, we got the pretty much everything out of the house. Like none of like none of our actual property was really damaged. There was like Emma lost like her yearbook

Preparing for evacuation

SPEAKER_00

and our couch got a little tainted. Um But we moved all the appliances up on the kitchen counter, we got the the table out, we got our roommate Eli like literally stripped his whole room, like it was completely bare. Um and so our upstairs room is just filled with a bunch of stuff now. We got all of our valuables in our cars. Um and yeah, then we were like, Well, I I hope it's okay. And then there was like an evacuation notice, and we're like, oh man.

SPEAKER_03

So okay, well, was that like when I hear evacuation notice, I think like the old school like flood siren. Yeah, they did that in Sumas there.

SPEAKER_00

No, it was more like uh so first there was like an announcement, like this is it wasn't a mandatory evacuation, it was like recommended. Um but I'm glad we did because there would be no way to like get out unless you had like a little raft. Oh my gosh. Especially if you had your car parked. So what we did is went and spent the night at a friend's house and had a very anxious night, as I I'm sure you can imagine where it's like seriously, you're away from your house, there's no power at the house because you have to shut all the power and gas off, and I don't know if like if our house is gonna like flood or not. And um, I'm just checking Facebook every like five to ten minutes, like I hope this works out. And um we go the next morning, um I'm like texting my neighbor like throughout most of the night and they're sending me updates and like by 10 p.m. they're there. They stayed. They they were d like up the road. Okay. Um because they stayed with like a a neighbor that's not as much in the flood zone. Gotcha. And so then they were driving through with their truck sending videos, and it was like by I think like midnight, it was like up to the garage already. Um and I was like, oh man. And um so the next morning I called a friend with like a big like lifted truck and I was like, hey, can you help me get out here? And he actually was he was he used to live in the house that we own now. And he was in the 2021 flood, so I was like, this is the like who would be the better person to reach out to to come help out with the first day. Um and so he brought us there, he brought waiters, and Eli and I I was wondering how you ended up in some waiters, dude.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm gonna be honest. I saw that, I definitely had that thought. Yeah, Mike is not the kind of guy that's got a pair of these rolling around.

SPEAKER_00

Um they were awesome, man. Those are fun. Heck yeah, dude. And then we pulled Emma in a raft, and we had the water was pretty much like this video, by the way, was insane.

SPEAKER_03

Is this the one there was like this like fringe news outlet in Seattle that is that that one? Maybe we could roll this one when you guys when this thing gets posed, we could actually show that clip. Looks crazy though. Like your whole neighborhood

Returning to the flooded house

SPEAKER_03

is submersed in water. Emma's in a raft. Yeah, you're like in front pulling her down what used to be your cul-de-sac or street, whatever it is, to your house. Yeah. Crazy thing to see. Insane.

SPEAKER_00

It felt really surreal. It was like I've been having that a few times where it's like, I especially with losing my friend, where there's like these moments of like shock that just causes like dissociation. And it was like when I was putting those waiters on to go wade to my house, I was like, oh my gosh, what is happening right now? Um But it was I don't know, it was it felt very okay like the whole time, which is weird. And I don't know if it's like like just like a childlike faith of it's gonna work out, like I'm gonna get taken care of.

SPEAKER_03

Because I knew the whole time, like like we can't actually afford this, but something's gonna work out like because you have no idea, probably at that time, like this isn't something that you prepared for, obviously. Like you have no idea how much it's gonna cost. Is the house gonna be repairable? Yeah, is it just gonna need to get ripped down? I mean, I would imagine you catastrophize to that point, at least in brief. Yeah. Did that happen? I mean how how serious did it get for you in your mind as far as like the worst case scenario?

SPEAKER_00

I was just expecting like worst case is like, okay, we're a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in debt that we just finance somehow and figure it out. Um and I knew that, you know, something you know, something would work out. Um which it did, which is good. But I think after what it kept saying was like, oh, it's just a bunch of stuff. Like it's like this is a house and with things in the house. And it's like after losing a friend, it just did not feel perspective. Yeah, it it didn't I'm so glad that that happened after he passed instead of like while we were having to deal with all that. You think your experience would have been different? Well I I do I really do. I think I would have been a lot more upset.

SPEAKER_03

Hmm. Makes sense, man. Those are big perspective altering moments when you lose somebody as close to you as Dylan was. Like it it helps you, and this is this is part of how God uses it. Not that God caused the death of your friend. This is part of how he redeems it in your life as it does take the affection of the follower of Jesus and anchor it to eternity in a way that um maybe you were a little bit numb to before, and it has a way of waking us up to what's really the most important. Because even if you did end up 150 in the hole with your house, which thank God that's not gonna happen. Um and we'll get there to that part of the story because some awesome stuff you guys are experienced. God has been faithful to you. Um, want to share that and celebrate that. And it it has a way of putting things into their proper perspective. Like, you know what, it's just a house. Yeah, it's just stuff. We're okay, we're alive, God's faithful, God's good. I mean, obviously it sucks, and dude, what and we'll talk about what New Song has been doing uh in involvement-wise uh in these communities, because obviously this is where this is why, you know, this is a part of the why of the church is moments like this

Keeping suffering in perspective

SPEAKER_03

specifically. Um and it's amazing the stuff that God's been doing um in these communities. Uh, but but it has a way when you go through loss to put moments of hardship like this in their proper perspective. Yep. God's good, he's faithful, um, he's gonna get us through this. Nobody's dead, my hope is in heaven. Yeah, and uh, even if our house does get swept away, we are going to an eternal home that is secure, that will not be swept away by any flood. It is secure uh and uh Christ is bringing us onward to that point of his return.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, yeah, and the the power of like Christian community and network that comes with that is just so crazy. Like it really put it in perspective. Um, our house is gone, but like we're still in in like in reality, we're still living like kings compared to most of the world.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, great point. A hundred years ago, get a freaking toothache. Yeah, like you could die. Like it's we are the most rich people. We're everybody today in the Western world lives like kings 200 years ago. It's incredible. That's such a good point. So, and before we get to kind of like your guys' experience with your Christian community, um I wanna you have such a fascinating life to me, dude. So you had some news uh companies reach out to you looking for some footage. Was this aerial footage that you shot, or was it the one where Emma's on the raft floating through your neighborhood uh neighborhood? Or what what specifically talk to me about that diamond?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I got um I got a new drone a few weeks ago because I have a media production company, and I was like, it's it's time for an upgrade. Um and when we were heading out there, um I was like people probably I was just thinking from the perspective of like what do I want to see? Like I I want to know if my house is okay. Like that was what I was thinking that whole previous night. I was like, is my house okay? And um so I was like, if I can go out there and and get shots of the areas and provide that for people and um so they can see like where their house is at, because a lot of people couldn't get to their house. So I was like, I wanted to just get as many shots of the area as we could. Um so I put something out on Facebook like or in the in the neighborhood uh Facebook thing. I was like, if there's any streets where you guys want drone footage captured, um I'm going out there today to get some stuff. Um and I got a bunch of footage and then I sent it into at first I posted it and then within like an hour NBC News called me um and asked to use it in one of their articles and then ABC News reached out later that night um and asked to license it as well. And it was just like I don't know, it's it's crazy how um yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So your drone investment paid off and they gave you a check for ten grand for oh no, that's not what happened. Not quite because these are a bunch of cheapies, dude. So they're like, hey Michael, we want your stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And you're like, okay. Yeah, so I I tried, I mean, one of them

News footage and flood damage

SPEAKER_00

asked like what it would cost, and I told them, and they're like, Oh, never mind. And then one of them I just gave it to them because I was like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03

Did it get shown? Yeah, nice, yeah. Um so Michael Muller, everybody, taking autographs after this pod here.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, I don't know, crazy, crazy time.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So okay, so then um your house gets flooded. Yeah, your garage is a pool. How high did the water level go up on your house?

SPEAKER_00

It was only like six inches in the house. Okay, but it's like one inches or a foot, like it's the same damage. You just have to pull the drywall out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, brutal. And your crawl space is flooded, so it's like all the insulation's gotta come out, drywall's gotta come out, trim's gotta come out, flooring's gotta come out, and um to prevent like mold. Obviously, the water, water's not supposed to go in your house, that's gonna do some damage. So let's fast forward to like that next couple days, man. What what did you see? Um, what happened, and um with uh Project Restore in particular.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so um when our when our house flooded from the Nixac River, we pretty much had to strip everything out. So we had to take out the floors, crawl space flooded, um, it was the water was coming up through the floors of the house, so there was like everything is saturated, like it it just has to go. Um so I was texting you about this and I was like, I don't know what we're gonna do. Like we like you know, we can't afford not necessarily a construction. No, no, no. Um we don't have flood insurance either, and we were just a little worried about that, but I knew something I knew God was gonna work it out somehow. And so I texted you, and um when it actually did flood, you said, Hey, we've got this team, project restore, and I'd heard about it before because I'd you know I see it on the the church center. Shout out Wes and Aaron, absolutely incredible people. Um and once the water subsided they came out there the next day and they brought like a full team, like 30 to 40 people were like in my house. Um and it was it was kind of crazy, it was a little overwhelming because it was like this is our house, and it's like getting just getting ripped up, dude. Yeah, seriously. Um there's a lot of a lot of feelings because it's like we were very grateful, like it's just incredible to see like these people taking their what was that a Friday? Yeah, their Friday afternoon to come. Was it Friday? I don't remember. Sounds about right. Friday or Saturday. Anyways, regardless, taking their day to come help us, like just demo our home. Um probably

The church steps in

SPEAKER_00

a bit terrifying also, like all these saws and stuff, like getting brought in and flooring, getting ripped up and yeah, and I was like, at first I was like, I I'm so grateful that they're willing to help, you know, mitigate the damage and um at least get this stuff torn up, but then I was like, after this, like I wet like what happens, like they just come in and tear my house up, and I was like, that's a it's you know, that's good, but um we do need a house to live in. And then Wes pulled me aside and he's like, I just wanted you to know like all this is gonna get taken care of, like from like the point here till like remodeling. And we were just I was crazy. Like what was that moment like, dude?

SPEAKER_03

For you, what what was going through your head? Uh this is what I love about the church. Yeah, the true church is a reflection of the generosity of Jesus Christ, yeah, and uh West and Aaron are the real deal, like they are the real deal, yeah. And um you came in contact with the true nature of Jesus through them, um, in a very real way, and it's overwhelming, man. Like you I I I mean, I I don't want to speak for you, but I would imagine the feeling of overwhelm. Like, what are you guys talking about? This is crazy. You start seeing dollar signs, and then all of that just like goes away as they're talking about, like, yeah, we're gonna help you guys get back on your feet. What was that moment like for you?

SPEAKER_00

So at first I was like, I was a little confused. I was like, what do you so you guys cover like the labor costs or what? Like I that's what I thought he meant. Um and he's like, No, like we're gonna do a a remodel for you guys. And I was like, So do I like finance it or like how does this work? He's like, No, like y'all are good. Um and it was just it was crazy, like a really weird feeling. And I gave him a hug and Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_03

What do you I mean what do you say?

SPEAKER_00

Like when someone does something like that, I don't know like what you even say.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it it feels awkward, dude. It's like you don't really know how to respond to that kind of generosity, like that's crazy, yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_00

That's crazy. And I went and I told Emma and our roommate, and they're like, what is happening? And like she she kind of had the same reaction, she was just like, They're doing what? Like they're wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um by the way, this is not like Chuck in the truck with a hammer, you know, like like custom home builder, yeah. The the Northwest version of Chip and Joe pre-them going weird, right? Like that's that's these guys, and um I just it's so amazing, dude. I how how this whole thing is going down, it's pretty awesome. So they're they're saying, hey, we're we're gonna help you guys get your feet back underneath you, and they're doing that with many families in the area, so incredible. Yeah. Um, what went down after that? So you guys get that news. I mean, your house is still opened

Being taken care of by the community

SPEAKER_03

up. Is that right? Yep. So you're not nothing's been put back together at this point. No, um, but at least the mold stuff has been prevented because everything's breathing and drying out. Yeah. So what's what's next up for you here?

SPEAKER_00

Um so they were super helpful. It was it kind of he kind of felt like a dad. I think he was like just letting us know what we need to do next, um making sure we were taken care of. And I was just like, because I d I don't I work on my computer, I don't know anything about drywall or you know, hammers or nails. Um and so Can you read a tape measure? Don't answer that. And so I I was asking him all these questions. Um but it was a it was a big relief, like knowing that it was gonna get taken care of. Because I was definitely like most of the day I was like, okay, so they're tearing my house apart and then they're just gonna let the house dry and then I don't hear from them or something. I don't know. I don't know what to expect. You don't expect someone to come through and just like remodel your house just cuz. Um and so we we had to uh call this guy Cascade Mitigation. His name's Gavin, he's very helpful, and we had to rent the dehumidifier for the house and all the fans and stuff, and he showed up and they gave us a quote, and I was like, dude, I can't I can't pay for like all this for like the week, and they ended up coming back and they were like, You guys can just have the the fan rentals for free.

SPEAKER_03

Dude, I love our community, man. Like there's so much of that going on right now. So much just crazy generosity. And it's amazing how when a community gets hit like this, the people like rally.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and my realtor sent us like a bunch of pizzas and then um like money for food for the week, and um wow, he paid for the uh the dehumidifier. Um it's just crazy, like taking care of like the whole way through it.

SPEAKER_03

Um what a cool thing for you guys to experience so young in your marriage, too. I mean, that's a that's a thing, dude. Like you you guys have had a journey the last several weeks. You you lost a friend, very close friend, and it's tragic. And I'm so sorry, man. I'm still grieving with you guys for over that. I know you got celebration of life coming up for him this weekend. Um you get hit with that, yeah, and then your house floods, and you've been married for how long? A little over a year. Okay, a little over a year. That's a that's a lot to go through in one year. And I love that your response, Micah, to this whole thing, dude, was uh like that childlike faith, and like there's it's gonna work out. God's good, he's gonna be faithful here, yeah. And he has been what a good thing for you guys to get locked down your first year of marriage at the level of this intensity.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, what I I don't see like another option. There's stuff like this, it's like Yeah, what do you what else are you supposed to do?

SPEAKER_03

And there's this idea in the Bible of like the Ebenezer stone, you know, where the Israelites were commanded to take these stones, and the kids would look at the stone and ask Mama Dad, what's up with it, and then they would remember, oh, okay, well, here's the story that's attached to this rock right here. Here's the

Seeing God’s faithfulness through hardship

SPEAKER_03

story of God's deliverance and God's faithfulness. And that's this moment for you guys in your marriage and in your lives, um, of like you your faith in Jesus didn't disappoint, he didn't let you down, he is faithful to the process of um what he's doing in your guys' lives, and and and that's true for you and your experience and things like emotionally, spiritually, with the loss of Dylan, practically, pragmatically with your house stuff. Yeah, and it's super cool to see, man. I think it's it's just I'm I'm really grateful to see what God's up to in your guys' lives, and that's a great thing to get locked down your first year of marriage, that conviction that God is good, He is faithful. Um, here's some intense stuff that we're walking through right now, and we're seeing his miraculous hand of provision here as we continue to journey into it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty incredible. And did you see Emma's reel about like the when your house floods and like you just can't take anything too seriously?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, what is that? That's like some like that's like some like viral trending like style video or whatever. It's like in your twenties something will happen, it's important that XYZ.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but even like she threw up over it.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I think it was like in your twenties your house will flood. Um it's important you don't take it too seriously or something like that.

SPEAKER_03

With you jumping on the trampoline backyard or something with the waiters on, the waters up to the bottom of the trampoline. Crazy.

SPEAKER_00

But it was it was crazy just like seeing people's responses even to like our stories and like being like, dude, how are y'all so positive even just through this? And um like we had people asking about church and stuff through um like because when I told them like church uh is gonna take care of of the cost of the remodel, like, oh I gotta start going to church. Maybe not the right uh, you know. No, heck yeah, dude, whatever brings them in.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um well no that that says something, you know, because it's it's easy to like assume, you know, oh okay, go to church. See, but that that's that's not, I think, what's going on for most people. It's like, wow, that's crazy. Uh because so so many people in our culture are convinced that Christians are hypocrites, yeah, and uh that churches basically they'd only care about themselves and you know their own budgets. Shout out Nathan Apfel at religious business craziness. Um and so moments like this when the church truly is generous and doing the stuff that Jesus has got us called to do, yeah, it turns heads, man. Yeah. And and that that's the kind of stuff that also got me curious about Christianity is when there were legitimate Jesus followers, transcending the hypocrisy um of the Christian institution and really doing the stuff. It's very attractive. And so God always uses moments uses moments um like this. And and by the way, let's talk project restore a little bit. So uh Weston

Project Restore and practical generosity

SPEAKER_03

Aaron Weirsmouth are pioneering the project. I remember several years ago, um they we got together, I was talking with them, and they were like, man, we just got this vision for this thing and um emergency home repairs, it's just so crazy for people, and it feels like when there's something wrong with your house, it's like life-altering, all-consuming. We don't know what to do about it. So, what if we could create some sort of ministry where we get out and we take care of it for them? And they've done some amazing work, and this actually launched right before the 2021 floods happened. Oh, wow. And they like it was like a month before, maybe a couple weeks even. That's insane time where they launched this thing and then the floods hit, and then um they get into these communities and do some great stuff.

SPEAKER_00

And uh wasn't it like 17 homes the first?

SPEAKER_03

I don't remember totally. It was it was a good amount. Yeah, it was pretty amazing what they were able to do um with the amount of resources that were available at the time. Um, and so this go around we got wind that the floods were coming in. So we touched bass and got a meeting with them, Toby Jansen and uh another amazing guy, him and Jill are so special. Um, and uh they were like, hey, we got to do something here. So um we were able to get some volunteers prep from New Song, just such a generous community here, dude. Uh I think like over 60 people with with like construction, uh blue-collar, you know, expertise that were raising their hand, like, yeah, I'll take time off of work and away from my family and away from my uh the busyness of my life to help these communities and super cool. Um so far we've raised sixty-one thousand dollars um to go towards homes and families like yours. Because this is devastating, dude. I mean, it's like there there are people that are absolutely terrified and freaking out. I mean, if you think about it, well, you've got you know a whole spectrum of people. There's the the young home buyer like you guys where they can't afford home anywhere else, and so they go to a community like this, they can get a house, they get an FHA loan, um, you know, prices are like they've come down maybe a little bit. Um, and Washington State is crazy as far as the real estate market is concerned. Um, so you finally get this young family that's in a house. Yeah, it's like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. Didn't know if this was gonna happen, and then it floods. Yeah. So that sucks. And you also have on the opposite end of that the you know, the old married couple or the widow who's you know been in this house for 40 years, and it's like their whole life and livelihood is wrapped up into this house that's now paid off. And uh they don't have a very prolific, you know, huge support system, and their whole life is like in shambles right now because and and the fear and the loneliness and the isolation and the I don't know what I'm gonna do. Yeah, and everybody in between, um, it's just so devastating for so many people. And so the vision of Project Restore is you know, we want to do the mitigation and the restoration. And uh, and by the way, there's another family that uh I got wind of this last week that's donating 105 grand to Project Restore specifically. So I bring this up because if anybody is listening to this and you're like, man, I want to get involved with this. If you go to nscbellingham.com, you go to the giving page, you can select project restore for any dollar amount, and 100% of that that goes to nobody's personal bank accounts, that 100% of those funds goes towards these affected homes and communities that are affected by uh these floods. And um, we've applied for some grants and some stuff, and I'm really hopeful there. We've gotten win from at least one that we're gonna get some uh some funding that's all gonna go to this. So really amazing stuff, dude, to see. So I've seen some pictures from these crews. Toby sent me a picture this last week of um these two guys, uh Ben Hodges and Jerry Lybolt, a couple heroes, and dude, they're just in rain gear, like covered in mud, uh, because they've been in a crawl space that whole day, just ripping out insulation and doing the stuff. So, man, it's amazing to see it's devastating when moments like this happen, of course. And it's also incredible to see uh the people of God, how they respond, and they just they they they get in there and um and and show up. And we got Samaritans purse here now. I saw um a bunch of churches in the area uh of the floods just been doing some incredible stuff, man. So, anyways, really cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there is um the crawl space, man. That that's a that's an act of God right there to go in there. There is like a bunch of like high school dudes crawling around our crawl space.

SPEAKER_03

Don't forget the scuba mask.

SPEAKER_00

And um you're literally like underneath the house in a bunch of mud, like there's little like standing water down there still, because you gotta like be pumping it out. And I was it was incredible to see like some guys just like taking their Saturday,

Trusting God while taking responsibility

SPEAKER_00

and they were like the most stoked people there somehow. They were like just all happy to be they're high school kids, bro. Yeah, but still, like I don't I wouldn't want to be crawling around in their house.

SPEAKER_03

No, it's amazing, it's very special. Praise God for those guys. That's awesome. Yeah, that's that is special. You got all these other high, you know, like so many high school dudes right now just being dumb, making stupid decisions, yeah, wasting their lives on video games and party culture, yeah, if they're motivated to get out of their house, even and um and here these dudes are crawling around in your crawl space, total strangers to you. And uh they could be doing anything, but there they are ripping out insulation and trying not to drown in your crawl space, man. Special, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

They got good parents for sure.

SPEAKER_03

They sure do, man. Yeah, that's evidence of it. Unless they were forced to be there, yeah. But I'm sure that wasn't the case. Um which, you know, good on the parents if that was. So houses getting put back together and uh God's showing up for you guys. Super cool. Any other thoughts?

SPEAKER_00

It's just like Yeah, the the whole provision and grace of God is just like incredible, and I don't like you can't go through something like this and not be like, yeah. That's like it's very like apparent. Yeah. And it was it was I know I said this already, but it was weird we we really weren't that worried the whole time. Like it felt very light, like obviously it was stressful. It's like I want to make sure I'm like showing up and doing as much as I can to mitigate the damage. But I knew that like it was gonna get taken care of. Like I knew it'd be okay. Like I'm not like sitting back with like my my feet kicked up, but I'm like, we're gonna get it figured out, we're gonna do as much as we can to get it figured out. Um and I'm not gonna be afraid to ask for help.

SPEAKER_03

That's really good, and congratulations on being a real disciple of Jesus. Um He says in the Sermon on the Mount, don't be anxious about your life. Like, that's a command, dude. It's not optional. Yeah, we think that like we don't we don't get to take a vote on if that thing is still binding on Christians today. Like, this is words of red, words in red in the Sermon on the Mount, like the most important sermon that's ever been preached in the history of the world. Jesus literally commands do not be anxious about your life. And then he goes into this incredible, you know, teaching on God's faithfulness and God's care and concern for you. And you know, a sparrow doesn't hit the ground without the father being aware. He's numbered the hairs on your head, like uh he closed the lilies, he's gonna be faithful to you, so don't be anxious about your life. And and it's it's literally a commandment. So if God is gonna command us to do something, he's gonna supply everything that we need to obey what he's calling us um to do. And and when you were talking about that, man, I just kind of had these these this idea come to my mind as far as like what does this actually look like? And the phrase that came to my mind is trusting or it's working trust. Yeah. There's you it's not that you're sitting on your you know, butt not doing anything, like you're you're texting, you're making some calls, you're doing work, and it's working in a posture of trust independence. Like this isn't gonna, we're fine, we're gonna be okay. God's good, it's a house. At the end of the day, um I got my wife, we're you know, everybody's safe, and uh what an amazing opportunity for God to show off as we just roll our lives into his hands and uh do what he tells us to do and uh trust that he is a good father that is faithful and he's gonna show up in a moment like this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, my wife and I have been talking about that a lot. The whole God steers, but you gotta row. Like you still gotta show up and put the work in. There you go.

SPEAKER_03

Um because there's for every mile of road, there's two miles of ditch on either side, right? Yeah. So it's like with this idea that we're talking about as far as Christian discipleship is concerned, on the one end, there's just the trust, which is like a fake trust, because it's like I I don't do anything and it's just an excuse for laziness, you know, and under the guise of all God's gonna take care of it, but like you're this, you know, you're lazy and you're not lifting a finger and you're not involving yourself and you're not doing anything, and just expecting that like daddy God is gonna like take care of the whole thing. Um, which he will. I I mean, it I think that obviously that doesn't preclude somebody from God's faithfulness. It's just stupid, it's just dumb. And nobody lives like that all the way through. Um, you know, but you've got so it's just trust. It's I'm not really willing to do anything, and what a great moment for God to show up, and I'm not willing to make any calls or put the work in. That's bad stewardship. And then also on the other end, it's just the worker mentality. It's just I gotta go to work on this massive problem that we have here, and uh you totally disconnect yourself from trust and reliance on God, and you replace trust and reliance on God with trust and reliance on yourself.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And that's where the anxiety usually kicks in. And you call yourself a realist. Yeah, yeah, we do dress it up with all sorts of language, don't we? And the but I think the that middle ground of it's a it's a working trust. It's I've okay, God, what's my stewardship here? Uh, let me make some calls, uh, let me figure out where we're at, what we need to do, make some decisions, and uh also trust and rely and depend on the fact that God is my father, he is faithful. Yeah, and this is a surprise to us, but it's not a surprise to him. He saw this coming. So

What to say to young men who have lost hope

SPEAKER_03

um and he tells us not to be anxious, so we're not gonna be anxious in the midst of it, which is so much easier said than done. Crazy, by the way, especially when it's like you've got your house being flooded. Um, so much easier said than done. But that balance of that working trust uh seems to be a sweet spot as far as Christian discipleship is concerned.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Just don't be anxious, Taylor.

SPEAKER_03

Just don't be anxious, Micah.

SPEAKER_00

Tell that to a high schooler and see what they say. Yeah. Whoa. What would you say to the young man right now who's feeling hopeless and wants to give up or used to have a glimmer of light in their eye, but feels like they've kind of lost it over the past few years.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, so several things. What I would say is you live in a culture that is pretty anti-you. And like there's a lot of very practical reasons why young men are feeling that way. Yeah. Uh that I'm very sympathetic to and I want to see fixed because that's not the way of Jesus. The culture around this young dude has like set them up for failure in so many different ways because what guys our age have heard for years has been you're the problem, you're not the solution. Go hide off in the basement, play your games, do your thing.

SPEAKER_00

Victim mindset.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, just leave it to leave it to the government and to women to solve all the problems. So we've got a bunch of guys that are like, okay, well, that kind of sucks. Um, so where's my sense of purpose? Where do I fit in here? And this is where, dude, I think that we need to recover a vision of Christian discipleship because the culture doesn't know what to do with young men. Yeah. Jesus Christ does. And he calls young men. Um, the disciples, scholars will tell us were like teenagers, these were teenage dudes. Yeah, crazy. Like 16, 17, 18 year old guys. Peter was probably the oldest. He's married. We know that because. Jesus heals his mother-in-law from a fever, but still probably like early 20s at that point. Um, and uh, so Jesus says to the young man today, the same thing that he said to those disciples 2,000 years ago, get up and come and follow me. The world around you doesn't know what to do with you, but I I know what to do with you. And uh I know how to make a man out of you. I know how to put responsibility on your shoulders. See, here's the thing, dude. Men are like trucks, they tend to drive better with a load. So when men don't have an appropriate measure of responsibility on them, it you're not gonna find purpose because God created you for responsibility taking. Yeah. Um, He's called you to take responsibility for yourself. And uh, assuming the vast majority of everybody that would ever hear this, if they're a young man, will end up being married one day. And you can't take responsibility for a family if you can't take responsibility first and foremost for yourself. Yeah. And Jesus says, Come and follow me. And he hands the king, think about this, dude. The literal kingdom of God, like the expansion of the message of salvation for humanity. Yeah, this is not like a multi-level marketing, like, you know, Ponzi scheme. This, this is this is not like, hey, go start a cool business and get really good at sales and get to 100K a month. And you know, like cool if you've done that or you're trying to do that. I'm not saying don't. Don't make an idol after of money that's gonna kill you, your soul, at least. And um, we're talking about the good news of the message of the reign of God breaking into the earth through the person in the work of Jesus. Yeah, he hands that off to these kids. Like, dude, we don't we don't expect 16-year-olds to tie their shoes at them like barely. And uh and Jesus is like, no, no, no, no, I see something in these young men, and uh I want to do something in them, and I want to do something through them. Yeah, and he was gracious and patient with these guys. I mean, I mean they get in all sorts of crazy arguments, and um, Peter, even after Jesus is resurrected from the dead, he's still not perfect. He denies Christ, he denies that he knows Jesus. And and a lot of times for younger guys, because they're so used to that shame voice, um, they apply that to God. And and so they they maybe even like exclude themselves from experiencing what I'm talking about because they're so used to that voice of shame. Jesus was denied by Peter three times. Yeah, I don't know who he is. I don't know, and and you got this hot head, Peter, right? Like, I'll go to the grave for you. And then he's like, Peter, you're gonna deny me three times before the night's over. And then he does, and then Jesus dies and resurrects from the dead and he restores Peter. Ask him three times, do you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me? That's why Peter's grieved. I believe this is the gospel of John. Um, because Jesus is saying, Hey, you denied me, but I didn't deny you. Yeah. And um I'm faithful to you even when you're faithless. And uh Peter still had, you know, some issues, like in Galatians, he basically practices racism. He like separates himself from the Gentiles. Paul rebukes him to his face, and and look what God did through the apostle Peter, dude. Um, it's just amazing. Wrote several books in the Bible. We get the Gospel of Mark through Peter's account of the person in the work of Jesus, very important leader in uh the first century world of Christianity. Um, and the dude died with his pants on. Um, he his wife, church history tells us as she was being led off to her martyrdom. Uh, church history says that he looked at her, and his last words to her was, Remember the Lord. And then he ended up becoming

Jesus, Peter, and redemption

SPEAKER_03

a martyr for his faith in Jesus, this one who denied Christ. He uh he was eventually captured, imprisoned, and um the Roman guards put all sorts of pressure on him, deny your faith, or we're gonna crucify you, just like we did your supposed Messiah. And his response was not to deny Jesus, but he made a request, hang me upside down because I'm not worthy to die, how Jesus did. Yeah, and so they crucified him upside down, and he died. That's wild. So Jesus knows how to take a young man from hopelessness and despair and lack of purpose and lack of identity and do something about it. Absolutely and so to the young guy, I would say, consider Jesus. Um nobody's loved you like Christ has, um, and uh he has a good vision for your future, dude, and culture doesn't know what to do with you, but but he does.

SPEAKER_00

How would you how would you tell them to start doing that? Like just go to church?

SPEAKER_03

Um well, a couple things. So I would say uh get a Bible and read it for yourself.

SPEAKER_00

They got a phone probably.

SPEAKER_03

They got a Bible. Yeah. They got a phone Bible.

SPEAKER_00

You think of you think a phone Bible is okay? Don't get me started on the body.

SPEAKER_03

Don't get me started on that, man. Listen, new podcast, we're not trying to get canceled already. Um, yeah, I prefer I mean, anyways, you just read it. It's uh it's the same whether it's the same words, whether it's on paper or on your phone. Um, I I I do I I love both. Like both are great. Um, but you don't have an excuse. You can literally go to the UVersion, you got an iPhone, go to the app store, download the U Version Bible app, yeah, um, and read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. These are the four portraits of Jesus from the vantage point of his first century disciples that act eyewitness accounts that where they actually saw Jesus do all of this stuff and read that. And it, dude, it is amazing how many, how many people that I've talked to, Micah, that like what led them to becoming Christians was reading the Bible for themselves.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Because it's a supernatural book, man. Like it's not like any other book that's ever been written. It's God's word. That's that's like part of the Christian doctrine of the scripture, is that it's God's book. He wrote this thing, he inspired it. Yeah. And um it Paul says it's it's breathed out by God. So when you read the Bible, you're not just reading any other book, you're reading uh the book that God wrote. And so start with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and uh just get a real good long look at Jesus and find a good Bible-believing church around you that's not flying the rainbow flags, um, that's going to preach the scripture, that's going to preach the hard stuff in love. Um, if you're going somewhere where they're not talking about repentance, they're not talking about sin, and it basically just feels like a TED talk um all the time. And the Bible's very encouraging. Jesus is very encouraging. Um, but if it's only like, you know, hey, you're amazing, and nothing really about your life needs to change, that's not the Christian message. Right, dude. Jesus says,

Why church community matters

SPEAKER_03

repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand. I'm the king, is what Jesus is saying. You're not the king, you suck at being the king of your life. You need to let me do that. And uh, and that's the Christian confession that Jesus Christ is Lord. So find a good Bible-believing, Bible preaching church that is walking in grace, the grace of God. Hey, sinners are welcome at the table. You got a story, so do I. Um, and and and and truth. Like we're gonna we're gonna not be afraid of the the hard stuff in the scripture. Um and pray about that, man. The tragic thing is, dude, the tragic thing is that it is increasingly more difficult to find a good church. Yeah. Um and so, hey, you know what? Maybe maybe this would be helpful. Reach out to us if you listen to this and you're in that category, and we would love to help you in your area find uh find a place that uh maybe a good spot for you to hunker down. Absolutely. Um there is uh, and this is a bold statement, and I do mean this. Um, you're not gonna have relationship with Jesus Christ without relationship with his people.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you and he calls us to do life together, it's not optional. Yep. First John comes around and he says, Um, how can you say that you love God or you haven't seen when you hate your brother who you have seen? Yeah. That that love for God for the Christian is measured by love for the Christian family. Yeah. So the two go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_00

Is that do you think that's I remember there's that verse talks about if you have a something that's unsettled with a brother, drop your gift at the altar, yeah, and then go settle that first. Is that would you say that's still applicable?

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah, man. I yeah, and and it's uh I think the heart of what the spirit of what Jesus is saying right there is like God really cares about the family, the unity of the bond of peace. Um, as Paul hits it uh in Ephesians. Paul tells us to maintain the unity of the Spirit, meaning that the Holy Spirit has already united us as the people of God. We're already one, we're already the family of God, the human family of God on the earth is the church of Jesus. And our job is to maintain it. We don't create unity, we maintain it. Jesus has created the unity. And uh the scripture very much cares about unity within the house of God. So yeah, Jesus says that in the Sermon on the Mount. If you, if you, if you've if you have a brother who has something against you, he says, it's not even if you have something against somebody else, it's like somebody has something against you, and you show up, you know, at the altar, uh, you know, communion table during a church service, you show up to a church service, you you go to pray, and you remember that your brother has something against you, you need to go and do everything that you can to live at peace and to make it right. Yeah. Um and uh because God really cares about unity. Absolutely. And oneness. Jesus in John 17 prays that we would be perfectly one, which is a radical vision of Christian of the Christian community.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think that applies to like a circumstance where um maybe it's not like safe to forgive that person? Or like maybe if they haven't reckon like there's no reconciliation, but you've forgiven them, is that do you think that is um that's still like that verse still applies?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, can you g can you think of like a specific example?

SPEAKER_00

Um let's say you were uh

Forgiveness, reconciliation, and boundaries

SPEAKER_00

you're a lady who's been in an abusive relationship and it's just not safe to be around that person. Um whether it's like whether it was like a a br brother or husband or um and it feels like she's forgiven that person, but it's not like she can actually reconcile with them in a safe way.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So and we're kind of th those are kind of two different things. So in the Sermon on the Mount we're talking about this person remembering that somebody has something against them that they've actually done to grieve that person. Um Jesus says, go like own up, repent to that person, figure out what's going on and how you can reconcile that relationship.

SPEAKER_00

So what yeah, I guess what if you flip that coin? Like, what if you want to so let's say you're d the abuser and you want to reconcile with that person, you want to have them forgive you. Um but you can't even like contact them. So what do you do then?

SPEAKER_03

Like because of a court order, then you need to not contact them.

SPEAKER_00

But I'm I'm not saying you do contact them, but I'm saying like how does that like can you still um like does that is that still apply where like you can't is it because is is it what what it gosh I can't get my words out is what it's saying is you can't like worship God until you've settled that.

SPEAKER_03

There's grace here, man. I think I I I I I think I understand what you're saying. So the scripture says do everything that you can to live at peace with everybody. Yeah. So if it's beyond your ability to reconcile for whatever the circumstance or situation, don't use that as like a cop out. And I'll just like really, really quickly, just like you know, I was listening to a podcast where Taylor and Micah said that you know I could do this, and so that's automatically true for me. But the idea is that like uh as much as it is up to you, live at peace. Yeah. So if there's a court order or if there's abuse, and I've worked with people like this that have wrestled through that. I I did this horrible thing to this person, I cannot believe I did that. I'm so grieved over it. I've repented to God. Um, what does it look like to repair that relationship? Well, maybe it needs to not be repaired because you abuse them sexually or physically, and a boundary there is actually a good and a wise thing for the sake of the person that you victimized. Um, and I would be very slow and hesitant to put any sort of demand on that person who was victimized by this individual that, oh, you need to reconcile relationally with them. Um, yes, my hope is that they would the person who was victimized would walk through a process of forgiveness and counseling and um getting some help from the family of God concerning this horrible thing that happened to them. But Christian forgiveness does not automatically mean relational reconciliation. Right. Sometimes that's not possible, sometimes it's not wise. Um and so I think that we need to we need to be careful discerning and pastoral with those types of sorts of situations. Yeah, but I but I think for for this hypothetical situation that we're talking about, the abuser victimizer um would need to recognize maybe that's not actually possible to do right now, and you need to not actually directly reach out, go get some godly Christian counsel, go talk to a pastor, go get some counseling, pray, talk to Jesus um about it, and uh get some wisdom and don't just reach

Is there a wrong personality type?

SPEAKER_03

out to this person that you have horribly wrong because it can be very triggering and unhelpful for them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um Do you think there's a we were talking about this yesterday? Do you think there's like a wrong kind of personality type? Like do you think there's like biblically there's like the right one? I know there's different, you know, there's like the different like type A and whatever. But I'm talking about like we can say, oh well that's just kind of their personality type. Like they just like staying inside and not really talking to people and playing video games, it's just that they're an introvert. Do you think that there is actually like right or wrong? Because I feel like I'm more extroverted now after like walking and like the peace that God provides. Like I feel like I do genuinely love people more. Um and I'm not saying that being an introvert is necessarily like bad, but do you think that's like a title that we've almost like glamorized?

SPEAKER_03

Dude, it's such an interesting question. I don't know if I've ever been asked that one before. Um, is there a bad personality type? Here's what I would say. I think that there is such a thing as personality. I think that that's a real category. I think that um human beings in our uniqueness. I mean, your thumbprint is unique from every other human that's ever existed in the history of the world. That's crazy. And so there's gonna be uniqueness to how our embodied, animated, conscious, you know, being is like expressed in the world. There's gonna be some uniqueness there, and and so I do think that personality is a legitimate category. And they're depending on you know what tool you're using, Myers Briggs, Aneagram, or you know, we're uh we're doing some uh getting some biblical counselor's license through the NCCA, and they've got a personality tool that they use where it's like four or five different personality types, you know, sanguine, melancholy, etc. So, whatever the tool, there does seem to be different personalities. And uh the second thing that I would say is sin has infected and affected the entire human person, including the personality. So it's really interesting is when you start looking at people's personalities. Okay, so let's just take that one example right there, bro, that you mentioned extroversion and introversion. Um, a lot of times what you can do with the introvert and the extrovert is you can figure out why they actually might be that way. So is the introvert an introvert because this is how God made them, or are they an introvert because they were bullied in middle school and uh they, you know, grew up in an abusive environment or they never had a very good, or it's connected to a lack of identity, so and very poor self-esteem. Yeah. Um, I know a ton of introverted people where it's like it's an identity crisis. The reason why you're introverted is because you're not comfortable um being who you really are around other people because of some past wounding that you have. And and I also know some extroverted people who they're extroverted because they uh they like need to overcompensate for their insecurity as well. So I need to actually insert and assert myself in social circles because I am convinced that I'm a piece of trash. Uh, I have horrible self-esteem, and so I need to compensate with that by being a loud obnoxious person and being the one that everybody's paying attention to. Right. Um, and I do think that, you know, there probably are uh people who are more naturally just because of their personality, um charged. You know, they're they they get energy by being around other people. And there are people where you just because it is who they are, they are are a little bit more intellectual,

Introversion, extroversion, and spiritual health

SPEAKER_03

maybe a little bit more comfortable with the footnotes in the books and the research, and uh that's where they recharge and they get around people, and it just takes too much mental energy, and they actually need some isolation alone time to be able to kind of recharge. Um so most creatives I've noticed are kind of like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like just I I really value just like being able to have time to think or write or work on a project. And I feel like that's actually where I like recharge.

SPEAKER_03

And it's energizing for you, yeah, is the idea. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I I know I also know people who are like totally the opposite, like they need to be around people. Totally. And I feel like both of these could be like a you can go too far to either side, right? Like I feel like the sin that would come with introversion is a lack of community. And the sin that could come with extroversion is you're never getting alone like alone time with God. Like you're never going to the preach, dude. Um I 100% agree. So do you think there's just you gotta find the balance there?

SPEAKER_03

I'm very extroverted. My wife is very introverted. Yeah. And we've balanced each other out really well. Yeah, absolutely. So she's pulled me back and I've pulled her out. And um when we were single and and kind of like just hanging out, like I was always with people doing stuff and sh and totally happy with like surface level relationships with like a thousand people. It's like that's what I wanted. And her style is more deep with a few. And uh then we got to a point in our marriage when we realized like we kind of have different visions for relationships and how life is supposed to work. Yeah, and as we were discussing and kind of like figuring out what we do with that dynamic of our personalities, one thing that we decided to accept and submit ourselves to was that we're different, and that's actually a good thing. Um, and we need to allow our differences to be our strength, leverage them for the strength of our marriage at this point now, and uh and and not get mad at each other for the fact that we're different. But these are actually strengths that we can leverage for each other's good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think Emma and I definitely experienced that with the whole kind of balancing each other out.

SPEAKER_03

It's amazing how dude opposites attract a lot of times. Yeah. And and I do think that it is um part of God's goodness that will put you in a marriage with somebody that's different than you because if you marry the exact same person as who you are, one of you is gonna become irrelevant.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You know. I think it's especially the emotional intelligence side of stuff. Like a single guy can be one of like the most non-emotionally intelligent person be around. And um it's crazy, like the mica feelings. The the mica before Emma and after, and it's like we've just kind of helped find some some middle ground. Um But yeah, it's a cool thing.

SPEAKER_03

That is true, man. The young the young single dude, it's like what are emotions? Well, it's something in between a flu and cancer. You know, like I don't I don't want it. I don't Know what it is, I don't really want to experience it, and um

Marriage, emotional intelligence, and balance

SPEAKER_03

and again, that's where marriage is really helpful because there is a difference between male and female, and usually ladies are a little bit more emotionally intelligent than dudes, and um, and in my marriage that's been really helpful. Yeah, Marissa has helped me become so much more empathetic and aware of like dude with our kids, bro, it's just incredible. There's been so many times when I've just had to tap out in like a discipline moment with our kids because because I know that they need like that emotional connection, yeah, and they need some like there's a book called Never Split the Difference, FBI investigators. This is so random, but I promise it connects, where he's talking about, you know, hostage negotiation, most intense situations that you can imagine, right? Like dude robbing a bank, everybody's like on the ground, he's got the ski mask on and getting ready to like just ax people. And part of the strategy of the FBI negotiators that he talks about is you want to make connection with the person. And then part of what you need to do is you need to establish what they're feeling. And then if you can call out the feeling, the emotion of what their emotional experience is, they experience less of it. And so we know this from like a neurochemical uh standpoint of things. If you're feeling afraid, and then I say, I can tell you're feeling afraid right now, you feel less afraid because you feel seen. And so that's a part of the strategy. And there's been plenty of moments, dude. This is this is such a parenting hack where I know that we need to do that to like get a breakthrough with one of our kids, like, but it doesn't make any sense to me. And I don't know, I can't connect the dots maybe of how they're feeling. I'm just seeing the bad behavior. And so I've had to tap out, like, babe, you got to step in and do some of your, you know, Jedi mind tricks here with our kids and do the emotional, you know, judo origami, figure out what's going on and contextualize to them. And and she doesn't she steps in and it's like, yeah, mom, that is how I'm feeling. Yeah, mom, that is why I'm feeling that way. Total softening of the heart, yeah. And then we can have a constructive conversation. Yeah. So it's been so good for me, dude, and so amazing. It would be horrible uh for our kids if it was just me raising them. And and that's not a knock on single parents. It's amazing how God will work in that environment. And God's good design is uh that you know, mom and dad raise kids, and for good reason.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We're different.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. So consensus would be there's not really like if you were to in 60 seconds give me like the ideal I know this is this feels like there's no real right answer, but the ideal male archetype of like a a dude in his twenties uh that's Christian. Like, do you think there is a right or wrong, or do is it just I do think there is a right for sure.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and this is not a kitsch cliche answer. Jesus Christ is the perfect man. Yeah, like he is the singular image of God, and so do you think he is he wasn't an introvert though?

SPEAKER_00

But he went to the desert for 40 days. So that's a pretty introverted thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, like where does where does Jesus map out on the Enneagram? Is that what you're asking? Where does he map out on Myers? I don't

Jesus as the model for manhood

SPEAKER_03

know. I bet she's someone's calculated it. Yeah, I bet she somebody has. You can check it out. Um yeah, but that's that's kind of what that's where I what I lean into, dude. I I I'm more concerned for the young guy looking for um a model of personality and character transformation. Yeah. Um I want to focus on Jesus and I want to become like Jesus because he is the true man. And um yeah, I want to look to Jesus as the true man and become more like him by the power of a spirit. Because he's both he's he's tough and he's tender. Yeah. He's tough with the religious hypocrites, tough with his disciples when they try to keep the kids from him. He rebukes people, he's rebuking storms, he's like squaring off with death. Like it takes a man to get scourged, dude. Yeah, and to like be murdered for crimes that you didn't commit. For sure. Very tough, hard as nails. Like you look at the mountains that Jesus was going up and down in his ministry, you look at his like literally, like the travel, the distance that he was walking and traveling, you look at how long he lasted on the cross after Roman scourging and crucifixion, you look at his profession as a carpenter, like Jesus was jacked. He he was not like this lazy, overweight, unhealthy, put a bunch of crap in his body type guy. He was disciplined, he was regimented, he was tough. You would be impressed hanging out with Jesus. He's a manly guy, and he's also very tender. He's tender with the sinner. Um, woman, where are your accusers? Uh, has no one condemned you? No one, neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more. Yeah, um, go call your husband. Uh, I don't have a husband. You're right. You've had five, and you got to live in boyfriend right now. Go get him. And then sh this village gets an experience with the grace of God as Jesus uh contextualizes the gospel to them in a very unique and special way. Um, very tender with the sinner, um and with the kids. Let the children come to me. So he's both, and we can tend to think of the masculine personality type as just tough. Um and that's not the case. Jesus is both tough and tender. So that's where you know he might not neatly fit. And you know, as far as extroversion and introversion goes, he's hanging out with the uh with the crowds, teaching the crowds, and Mark 135, before it's light out, he goes to lonely places to pray.

SPEAKER_00

That's good.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think that was a 60-second answer. I think that's what you wanted. Cool. Okay, man. Closing thoughts on this one?

SPEAKER_00

I think we covered a lot. Yeah, it's good. I hope hopefully next episode I don't have any more bad news.

SPEAKER_03

Alright, man.