Call Him Father
Call Him Father is a podcast from New Song Church about knowing God as Father and following Jesus in real life.
Each episode is a honest, faith-centered conversation exploring identity, healing, discipleship, culture, and the real questions people carry every day. Whether you're a longtime believer or just starting to ask questions about God, this show is for anyone who wants more than surface-level religion — and a deeper relationship with a God who is present, personal, and deeply involved in your life.
Through biblical truth, practical wisdom, and real conversation, Call Him Father invites you to stop performing and start trusting the Father who already knows your name.
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Call Him Father
Is Following Jesus Supposed to Be This Hard?
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In this episode of Call Him Father, Micah and Pastor Taylor talk about whether following Jesus is supposed to feel hard, easy, comfortable, or costly.
They discuss what it means to deny yourself, carry your cross, build discipline, fight distraction, and follow Jesus in a culture built around comfort, pleasure, and self-fulfillment.
The conversation also gets into Taylor’s son’s birth story, praying for your family, spiritual warfare, trusting God with your kids, van life vs rooted Christian community, experiencing God through nature and creation, Christian products, money and ministry, platform stewardship, and how habits and environment shape who we become.
Call Him Father is a podcast tackling hard questions about faith, life, and following Jesus in a modern world.
Have a question for a future episode?
DM us on Instagram: @call.him.father
Have a question for a future episode? DM us on Instagram: @call.him.father
Follow Call Him Father for more honest conversations about faith, life, and following Jesus.
Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Call Him Father. Thanks for clicking on with us. We get into some great stuff this episode. We're going to talk about how the Christian walk is more hard than it is easy. Is there a comfortable Christian life? The nomad van lifestyle versus rooted community, experiencing God through nature and creation. We're going to talk about Bryce Crawford's Christian energy drink a little bit. We got some hot takes for you on that. We're going to talk a little bit more about Micah's experience with his house getting flooded and how habits and environment shape you as a person. So really great stuff. Looking forward to it. Let's get into it.
SPEAKER_00So you just had a kid.
SPEAKER_05I did just have a child. And how's that? That is amazing. His name is Callan. He number four. Actually, this is a crazy story. We can we can talk about this. Sure. Um, this is number four for us. And um it's amazing how God like will speak different things to the family, the praying family about each kid. And so a bunch of these different things happen around Callan and Merce's pregnancy where we just got this sense that this kid's gonna, he's gonna be a dude. And uh, I was looking at the story of Samson. Obviously, Samson did some stupid stuff, so we're not prophesying that over our child, but um, just through some weird like community confirmations as well, just a sense on him being a burlier, manly, yeah, warrior type dude. And uh so praying for him, getting ready for delivery, the couple weeks leading up to it. I had this sense that something was gonna go wrong. And um, and I've had this happen before where you know God will just kind of like, hey, something's up. Uh, I love you, I'm here. You don't see it, I see it. You don't have knowledge of the future, I do. This is God's foreknowledge, and sometimes God will share that with us. And if we're praying, I think that we're getting positioned to actually begin to experience that in our relational dynamic with God. And so as I was praying for the delivery, praying for Marissa, um, I just started to get a sense that something was going wrong, that something bad was gonna happen. But I had this reassurance the whole time that it was gonna be okay, and I didn't know what it was, and so we get all the way uh up to the point of delivery, and I'm gonna catch them. I've never done that before, which is crazy. So they like slide out, and then you gotta be the like you catch them like a football. It's crazy. And so they had me there ready to go, and uh, it's just a wild experience because your wife is losing her mind and screaming at the top of her lungs because it's so painful, and everybody else is just like this is their day job, so they're just all chilling, like talking back to each other, like you know, did you see the episode that's or whatever, just talking about stuff? And uh, so he comes to the point of delivery, and his head comes out, and it's the most terrifying thing. You guys, you haven't given birth yet, dude. It's the craziest thing you have ever seen in your entire life when this giant alien head just comes out of your wife's body, it's terrifying, and he gets stuck because he's such a big dude. And so it's a medical emergency, right? It's called shoulder dystocia, it's life-threatening. And so it goes from I'm gonna catch my kid to now we're in a medically uh emergent situation, and the midwife yells for help, which is not what you want to have happen. He's okay, which is why I'm smiling right now, obviously. And uh, so she yells for help, dude. Within 10 seconds, the hospital staff is it's crazy. This is the most like awesome choreographed thing I've almost ever seen. Yeah, 10 people fill the hospital room in like two seconds, and everybody has a job, everybody knows the job. They start doing the job. I get thrown to the back of the room because dad's the least important here. And when it's happening, it's crazy because I I remember thinking consciously, oh my gosh, this is the thing that God said was gonna happen. This is it right here. This is the bad thing. Yeah, and it was almost like an out-of-body experience where I was prepared for it because I felt like the father prepared me for it as I was praying for my wife and my kid. And and I also remembered in that moment, like, oh, God said it was gonna be okay. And so I just started praying that it would be okay. Yeah, and they're doing some wild stuff, dude. Like to get a baby out from shoulder dystocia, it's pretty wild. If it goes for four minutes, it's like like something bad has probably happened. A lot of times, because they're so violent to get the kid out, they'll break shoulders and clavicles, and kid can end up with nerve damage and stuff, and just really bad, very serious. And so, what had happened is one of the nurses jumped on top of Marissa and like, dude, throws all of her weight into her stomach to like basically mimic a contraction. And then the midwife like reaches up, twists Callan, and he comes out and he's delivered, and he goes right on Marissa's chest and he starts screaming, which was amazing. And everything was okay. No nerve damage, no shoulder issues, no broken clavicles. And uh, what's been so cool is I've I've prayed over every single pregnancy and delivery uh that Marissa's had very intentionally and very consistently. And every time we've had, at least the last two, we've had a doctor, nursing staff, midwife make a comment about how you know the something supernatural happened, or you know, they sensed a presence that was just really unique, or it was the most beautiful thing they've ever witnessed. We had our when Willow was born, our last daughter before Callan, she's two now. Um she was born with two knots in her cord, and the cord was wrapped around her neck twice. So obviously, cord in the uh not in the cord is bad because that's how she's living and growing. And our doctor was an atheist, non-Christian, and she knew Mercy and I are Jesus followers, and uh because we talked to her about it. And so Willow was born, and then she saw the double knot, which is very she's been doing this for a really long time. She's like, I've only seen that maybe like one or two other times. Yeah. And she looks at me when Willow's born, and she's like, Well, Dad, your prayers for protection worked. And uh then she talks to our midwife after that, and she is just standing there in amazement, and she literally says, If you don't believe in God, you do now. Yeah. So um, that was pretty awesome. Yeah, and Callan being born, okay, is pretty awesome. Yeah, and it's just a reminder for me that okay, you know what? God's got my kids, God loves my kids. First and foremost, they belong to him. And as priest in my home, uh, as I'm praying for them, God is doing things and he's gonna talk to me about the kids, and uh, I can actually partner with his heart and his will and his desires and and actually see those come to pass for my kids. So yeah, we got a kid, man. He's awesome, super fun.
SPEAKER_00You guys gonna have him any soon? Not soon, maybe in the future. We'll see.
SPEAKER_05I want to have one in a year.
SPEAKER_00So wants a kid in a year, you want to kill it. Well, it's I feel like it changes. It changes month by month on when she wants it. Because all this crazy news going on, we're not sure what's gonna you know, you never know.
unknownI want to have a kid before Jesus comes.
SPEAKER_05What do you mean? Like you don't like the idea. We don't know when you want to bring a kid into the Okay, you don't know when Jesus is coming, so we're just not gonna do a multiplication thing.
SPEAKER_00No, like so. She wants to have a kid before. Before Jesus comes.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, dude, he can come back anytime. You guys, we better shut the pod down. You guys need to get crazy. Uh okay. And you're a little bit more resistant to that timeline? You want you want to wait a little bit longer than a year?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I wanna we want to do You guys are gonna be such great parents, man.
SPEAKER_05I hope so.
SPEAKER_00I know she'll be a good mom. I want to make sure I'm a good dad. So I gotta lock in.
SPEAKER_05You gotta lock in. What do you need yeah. Okay, so what's what do you what's your hesitation there?
SPEAKER_00Um I guess just making sure that we're good like communication-wise, as is, like just being married, because I feel like there's couples that like don't really get their stuff figured out, and then they have a kid, and then they just kind of never deal with it, because like now the kid's the big thing, like holding them together, and then when the kid leaves, like they usually you know it just doesn't go well. So I wanna and I don't maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it. Maybe it's like you get forged by fire when you have the kid, but I just know that that first few months of having a kid is really hard.
SPEAKER_05It's wild. I think that that both of those things can be true though, you know, like if you so what happens when you have kids, well, okay, so when you you can back all the way up to when you're single, when you're dating. And when you're dating, you have issues in your relationship, just like anybody does, right? Because we're human and you're in a romantic relationship with another human who's a sinner, just like you are. And what can happen is you get engaged and you get married, and then you move in together, and the problems that you had in your relationship, they don't go away, they multiply. Yeah. And so with parenting, it's the exact dude, it's the exact same thing, except it might actually be worse. And this, I think, is the grace of God, dude, in human development, where it's like, you know, it stuff just gets more difficult over time. And so you you have these windows of grace to figure out your problems and solve them with the spirit of God getting good help, you know, through the scripture, through prayer, through biblical counseling, Christian community, etc. Uh, and the if you do that well, then it's awesome. And you build up resilience to meet the next challenge. The longer you delay, though, taking responsibility for issues in marriage and family and communication and health, they do tend to compound though. Um, so if we there's there's two pains in life, the pain of discipline and the pain of regret, you're gonna experience one, you just have to choose. Yeah. And if you don't choose the pain of discipline, you are inadvertently choosing the pain of regret, yeah, where you're just gonna end up regretting a lot of things. The pain of discipline says I would prefer suffering in dose form over a lifetime than you know, like an overwhelming amount of it at any given point. Does that make sense? Yeah. So with I think with marriage and parenting, it's it's a similar thing. Yeah, it does multiply the difficulty to solve the problems in the marriage and communication, whatever, if you don't do it. And you're totally right, there is a forging by fire that happens too where God just accelerates the growth process because you you have to or you're gonna die.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think also just where we're at with like building the business and stuff, like I don't think I've figured out well enough like how to delegate and really protect my time to where I'd like like I'm not at a spot right now where I'm like, okay, I could give my kid and my wife enough of my time. Like it just doesn't I don't know. I don't want to bring a kid in this world and then do a bad job.
SPEAKER_05That's a noble conviction, man.
SPEAKER_00Especially like just waiting a few years until we're a little bit more established and have our roots down somewhere with something and a team that we really trust and be good to go.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I will say I don't know uh if I've really ever talked to anybody who's like felt ready.
SPEAKER_00Who felt that they were ready.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I remember, I mean, when Marissa and I got pregnant with our firstborn Asher, he's now eight. He's so wonderful. I I don't think either one of us were ready. And I do think that a part of that is a part of the point, you know, because it it does when you have a kid, you learn so much about God uh and yourself, and it does grow you up so much just by lived experience because now you have this human. I mean, it's crazy, dude. It's so nuts. Yeah, you don't even have to like get a license to be a parent, you know, like you just each time we've had a kid at the hospital or whatever, birth center, they just they come out and then they run some tests and they're like, okay, good luck. And they they kick you out of the hospital, and then you're entrusted with this most precious human life that you you have to like take full responsibility for, and it does something to you when you do experience it, yeah, especially if you're a follower of Jesus, not that you have to be a Christian to be a great parent, that's not what I'm saying. I know plenty of people who aren't Christians who are amazing parents, and a lot of them better than a lot of Christian parents. It just helps a lot having relationship to the God of the universe, and as a father, experiencing what it is to be fathered by God the Father, and then you get a kid that you're now a father to it does something to your brain and to your heart, and it helps demote self and promote other-oriented love in a way that I think is supernatural. Yeah. Like when Asher was born, it was just I remember looking at him for the first time, and I think the first time thing I said to him was like, You just changed my life forever. Because I was realizing in a new way that he just changed my life forever. But I do think it's a noble thing, dude, to say, I want stability, I I need I want some financial stability, um, want our family culture to be set well so that we're bringing a kid into a healthy environment instead of a chaotic, yeah, crazy, unhealthy, dynamic in environment, you know, and I think that's I think that's a good and godly thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Do you um with having your kids you kept saying there there's like complications with each one? Do you think that's like by chance, or do you think there's like things there like because you're a pastor? Like, do you think you're like targeted or do you think that's like a bad way to look at it?
SPEAKER_05I don't know, that's a good question. Yeah, I mean I guess that kind of that would be the theological question is can Satan and demons affect the development of babies in utero? Yeah. We know he comes to steal, kill, and destroy, so he comes to kill. So there is a dynamic of spiritual warfare where he like he does try to take humans out. Um and uh and I I do think that you know like he wants to take out babies. If dude, if you what's actually really interesting about that, if you look at the story around Moses' birth, and then Moses is a type of Christ preparing us for Christ, and then you look at the story surrounding Jesus' birth, what happened is mass genocide against baby young boys, yeah, like two and under. So you have Moses is born, Pharaoh's decree, kill all of the young boys, Jesus is born, and then the decree goes out because Herod's freaking out about his dynasty being threatened by the son of David that's coming for his throne now, yeah. And so he executes all of these these boys. I think that's demonic. Like I think that is a demonic uh strategy that was initiated to try to kill the movement of God through the person of Moses, ultimately the person of Jesus. And so when God wants to bring about a great work through a generation, Satan, I think, has at least somewhat of an understanding of what's going on, yeah, and he wants to kill it. Yeah, and so that's a part of the reason why I pray for my kids every day. Yeah. Yeah. And and when they were in in the womb as well. And there's so much promise, dude, in the scripture about kids, it's amazing. Jesus says that the children, their angels always behold the face of the father. So that's unique and interesting. So our kids have angelic protection assigned to them by the father where they're receiving marching orders from God the Father, yeah, like every day concerning their lives.
SPEAKER_00You think that's just for like children who have Christian parents have angels assigned to them, or like are they all just God's children? Like, do you think dude?
SPEAKER_05Honestly, I don't think that we can say definitively from what the scripture reveals. Yeah. I think that you know, you go back to like Psalm 91 where it says he'll give his angels charge concerning you. That is in context of the covenant believer. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I think that we are in a unique position of favor concerning the heart of God as a as a Christian believing family. Yeah. You also look at Cornelius, though, dude, in the New Testament, and I mean, he's a non-Jew, Gentile, his family, centurion, Roman soldier, and his family becomes the first to convert to the way of Jesus as non-Jews, and God was working about his story before that point. So was there angelic involvement? I'm sure. Spirit was wooing that guy, drawing that guy in his family, and then everybody gets baptized in water and baptized in the spirit in that text as well. So I think it's probably both and, you know, like where well I can think back to so like my mentor, um, before he was walking with Jesus, he had so many different times when he almost died, right? Like he's a lumberjack, you know, yeah, logger and uh had trees fall on him and stuff, and you know, his thumb is ripped in half because a choker or whatever like sliced his thumb off and could have hit his head and taken him out and killed him. A bunch of stories like that. And he's had this amazing ministry over the last 25 plus years of following Jesus that just wouldn't have happened if you know he would have died right there. And so is that angelic protection, deliverance? Yeah, sure. You know? Um, I think God is I think here's the here's the thing. I heard this statement recently and I resonated with it. We live in a God-saturated universe, and there is an unseen realm full of spiritual beings, some of them good, um, some of them bad and very evil, the bad guys. Yeah. And uh and I think that they're involved, and I think that they are working to further God's purpose, the good guys.
SPEAKER_00Do you think you're a good guy or a bad guy?
SPEAKER_05Do I think I'm a good guy or bad guy? I am a that is a theologically loaded question, dude. What do you think? I think I'm a good guy. I'm a I'm a I'm a saved bad guy. Yeah, I was a very bad guy. And bad guy at heart. Wait, maybe like a good guy at heart, but he did bad things. I was a bad guy. Okay. All right, yeah. Um, so kids, angels, behold the face of God, Psalm 139, fearfully, wonderfully made. God knits us together in the womb of our mother. Very intimately, intricately involved. I think your original question was about, you know, this can Satan and demons, you know, bring about complications in pregnancy and delivery.
SPEAKER_00And more like do you think you'd be like a a bigger target since you have like since you're bringing it up?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think that's a okay, so that kind of gets us into a question of demonology, right? And so part of how like Pentecostals, like old school Pentecostals have talked about this is higher levels, higher devils. Yeah, right. So like you know, higher levels in the kingdom of God, kingdom purposes, you got higher devils that you're wrestling with. Yeah. Um I I I think that there there may be some truth to it. Um I think that Satan wants to kill every believer in Jesus. Uh I think that he works very hard to keep us nominal and lukewarm. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do you think I was talking with a friend about this the other day. Do you think the the Christian walk then is easy? Because I know they say the burden is light, but I was arguing with him that I don't think it's like an easy walk, because like you're constantly having to die to your flesh and there's always like distractions and stuff trying to keep you stagnant. So do you think it's an easy walk or do you think it's hard?
SPEAKER_05I think it's very difficult until you decide to die.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That's what I think. I think that when you really allow the implications of the gospel and the invitation of Jesus to pick up your cross, deny yourself, and follow him, once you accept that that's your life in Christ, yeah, and you submit and you die to it, then everything gets a lot easier. Yeah. But until then So it's a flip-flopping, that's hard. Yeah, it's until then it's very difficult because that is anti-human nature. And it doesn't mean that, you know, like being a Christian after that point is just easy. Yeah. I just think it gets easier because your allegiances are straightened out. So now, okay, Jesus Christ is Lord. What he says, I obey. And so there isn't that vacillating of like, am I gonna fully like submit my life to this thing? And am I allowed am I gonna fully allow Jesus to dictate all of life? Um once you get there, it does get easier. It is difficult though. I mean, dude, like the Christian life is one of self sacrifice, of discipline. Paul writing to Timothy, he gives this illustration of the Christian minister and he talks about the soldier, the athlete, and the farmer. I mean, these guys are dude, like farmers are up. We live in farmland up here in the Northwest. They're up like ungodly hours early. 9 a.m. Can you believe it? Dude, I can't even imagine. No. And they're tilling the ground, you know, like feeding the cows, working hard outside for hours and hours and hours before the sun's up, after the sun goes down, like all throughout the year. Yeah. Dudes are hardcore. The soldier, I mean, just unimaginable conditions that they're dealing with on like deployment, you know, like you see these different Ukrainian soldiers as clips come up on YouTube or whatever, and like the conditions that they're experiencing. I mean, it's just it's nuts what they go through. And they have to stay vigilant, they have to stay alert, or they could die at any moment. Um, very disciplined, very regimented. And then you've got the athlete. I mean, like, you know, when I was in high school, this is the Michael Phelps era, and I was a swimmer because I grew up in a town where everybody's phenomenal at sports because families care way too much about it, and it is idolatry and it's stupid. But and I wasn't good, so I swam because I couldn't do anything else. So this was in the Michael Phelps era when he's winning all his gold medals medals. I mean, dude, you look at his training regimen, it was insane how much food he was eating, when he was eating it, digesting it, his training. You familiar with Brian Johnson, the don't die guy? Um I don't think so, no.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh, dude, you gotta check him out. He's crazy. He's basically he's his whole thing is don't die. And so he's taking like the biohacking life optimization thing to like its absolute extreme. And uh, you know, so he does the red light therapy in the morning. He takes all of these pills and supplements and whatever, and uh wears certain clothes, you know, don't do any of the forever chemicals, all of that.
SPEAKER_00I feel like those kind of people would like die in like a freak accident. Like so focused on not dying that they're like something's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_05Well, it you know, that's worth talking about concerning that guy because there there is a the thing that does concern me about it is this like reach to be like God and escape death. Yeah. And you're totally right. You can't control crap, dude. Yeah. I mean, I think that we're stewards of our body and we need to take care of it, but you're totally right. You can walk outside and get smashed by a bus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, wouldn't that be fighting for like the control for like the thing that uh you know, if you don't have God, like that's the thing you fear the most, right? Is death because then there's just nothingness. And so wouldn't that be like the number one thing that he's trying to like control?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, and I would be really curious to talk about his motivations online. He did do a podcast with uh who was it, the not the diarbus CEO guy, the modern wisdom dude or whatever. Chris Williams? Chris Williams, yeah, where he was talking about it recently. I heard a little bit of it, but yeah, anyways, but you look at that guy very disciplined, very regimented. And I do think that that is the picture that Paul is giving the Christian minister um for what it looks like to be faithful in the role, um, and also for the Christian disciple. Like there's gonna be some discipline to your life, and discipline isn't always fun and enjoyable, and that's okay. Um, you know, like a daily prayer encounter with God. Sometimes you don't feel anything, sometimes it's frustrating, sometimes it just is like I'm talking to a wall. Um, but I do it anyways because I know it's doing something to me. Yeah, and uh and I know God's glorified in it. Or, you know, reading the scripture. Sometimes I go to it and my brain is just so all over the place. You know, I gotta reread the same four verses like five times because my mind wanders. Um, and I do it anyways because I know it's doing something to me and I know God's glorified in it. Thomas Keating, I don't agree with everything he says theologically. I think he's a Catholic priest, got some weird views, got some cool stuff in contemplative prayer. One thing he has said is if your mind wanders 10,000 times in prayer, that's 10,000 opportunities to return to God. Interesting. And so, um, but that takes discipline to not quit and to not give up and to not just go and doom scroll on Instagram when you're that distracted and just to continue to press in. So it's a good question, man. I think that yeah, there's there's sacrifice to the Christian life. It is difficult, it is challenging, and it's gonna stay difficult and challenging. Um, I just think when you decide to finally submit to the cross that has your name on it, carry it for the glory of God and the good of others, it gets a lot easier.
SPEAKER_00Do you think there's a comfortable Christian life, or do you think that's like there those that's those are opposites?
SPEAKER_05It's a great question. Let's define some terms for a second because it depends on how you not to do the Jordan Peterson thing. Yeah, but it depends on what you mean by comfort. Sure. So on one hand, it's obviously a very uncomfortable thing when Jesus says, eat my flesh, drink my blood, pick up your cross, deny yourself, follow me every single day of your life. That's super uncomfortable. Deny your flesh. Sermon on the Mount, we were talking about this this weekend. If your right arm causes you to sin, cut it off, right? Um Jesus is calling us to not literally do that. He's using hyperbole, but he is calling us to do a violence against sin. That's uncomfortable. To wage against the desires that are most natural to your heart, that's uncomfortable. So that's on one end, and then Jesus shows up and he calls the Holy Spirit a comforter. So that's where it depends on what you mean by comfort. Yeah, the spirit does come to comfort us, but if comfort means, you know, comfort yourself by sinful activities that'll satiate your carnal desires, make you feel better, and get you some pleasure and a dopamine hit, uh, that very well likely might not be God. And this the comfort that the spirit comes to bring us is I think it's in context of persecution, is what Jesus is talking about. Um, and also when we're saying, Hey, I'm gonna deny my carnal man the desires that are contrary to the way of Jesus, um, because I know that God's the answer and the presence of God is better. Yeah. And the Holy Spirit comes to comfort and reassure and affirm and aid and help and advocate for us in that space. Yeah. So, but I think your your question is like, is there is there a way of doing the Christian life where it's maybe easy or easier?
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah. Or like I'm just thinking, because I know you're much more like if you got the extra time, then you should be spending it with actually like mission-driven stuff. But some people like golfing, you know, for example, and you might not like golfing.
SPEAKER_05Golf is for dudes who don't have enough responsibility, bro.
SPEAKER_00Right. So I'm saying someone might see a golf life as like a comfortable life. Yeah. Like, um But so do you think that you can be like a Christian male? Obviously, you can be, but do you think that's right to like have, you know, uh what is it called? Transfusion? 3 p.m. transfusion golf with the guys.
SPEAKER_05I have no idea what that means. It's like a drink.
SPEAKER_00It's like a drink that golfers drink.
SPEAKER_05Okay, okay. By the way, did you see our boy Bryce Crawford's coming out with a Christian energy drink? I did see that. We should talk about that. I got some I got some thoughts on that. Okay, so they're they're doing the drinking the Judah Lion praise energy, whatever, out on the out on the links at 3 p.m. Sure. I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with hobbies. Like I think God wants us to enjoy our lives. Uh there was a who was I reading recently? Um one of the church fathers, I don't think it was Augustine, uh it might have been. Anyways, uh patristic era, New Testament Christianity was talking about it was basically after his conversion. Yeah. And great line, he said, you know, I've I've written off leisure, I've parted from it, and I won't return. Again, actually, I think it was John Wesley, so later in church history. But do you think that's more like just his own conviction? I think that the heart of what he's saying, I totally resonate with as appropriate for every believer. Like the kingdom is all, dude. Yeah, like Christ is all. Yeah, Jesus is coming back to judge the living and the dead. What we do in our bodies really matters. Yeah. We're gonna we're gonna give an account. We have 15 minutes, bro, to impact eternity. Yeah, our lives are so short. The writer of uh Ecclesiastes is you know, life is a vapor, it's a breath. Hebel hebel in the Hebrew. It's like you go out on a cold day, you breathe, you can see the the your breath for a second, and then it dissipates, it disappears. Yeah, that's our lives. So the question is: three options. Are you gonna spend your life? Are you gonna waste your life, or are you gonna invest your life? Are you gonna spend it, you know, on like your own sinful desires and pleasures? Are you gonna uh waste it on stupid pursuits and going after all sorts of nonsense? Are you gonna invest it in God's kingdom purposes? And we all have to make that choice as a decision of stewardship. Now, as attention, I don't think that like I'm not advocating for asceticism, you know, just like don't smile, don't laugh, don't have joy, and don't do things that are fun and enjoyable. I think the New Testament actually like rips that to shreds. Um and if any of those things get in the way of the responsibility that God's called me into as a husband, as a dad, as a pastor, as a follower of Jesus, then they need to die. Yeah. Uh I Spurgeon has said something to the effect of, you know, like if however okay essentially something might be if it keeps me from the Bible, I need to get rid of that thing. Interesting, yeah. That's a good way of looking at it. So yeah, I think it's, you know, moderation's good. Yeah. I don't want somebody to do asceticism because they think that makes God happy when they're stoic and they just, you know, never have any fun. Yeah. Then they just become miserable people, and that's not good. And God created the categories of fun and joy, and he's pretty fun and awesome. Um so I think it's it's a matter of the heart, it's a matter of making sure that because in my stage of life, what the golf thing, a lot of times what guys do is they run from difficult marriages and hide out on the golf course with their buddies. So that's obviously stupid. Yeah. Can be a great opportunity for ministry. You know, I've got a mentor who's super good at golf, and uh, he's got stories of just taking guys out golfing, and you know, they get saved because he's talking about Jesus and they gotta hang out for a couple hours. Uh so yeah, I think it's about the heart. I think it's about doing all things through the glory of God. Sure. And uh making sure that the fun thing that you're doing isn't getting in the way of the stuff that God has you to do.
SPEAKER_00You talk about the um I don't know if I don't think you use the word distractions, but um would you say that going to like wanting to experience as much as you can, would you say that's like a good thing if you know like the truth that God has laid out for you? I feel like I'm the kind of person that kind of like I really enjoy experiencing things for myself. Like I which is also bad on one hand, where it's like I can learn by fire. Um but I want to be able to like adhere to wisdom better because I know that's good. Like I want to learn from other people's mistakes, but I also like want to go and experience like the things myself. Um do you think that's like a bad pursuit, like wanting to go explore the world and and try things? Not like that you know are directly sinful. I'm not saying you go, you know, do those like have a shaman guide you through a a thing in Brazil or whatever, but I'm saying like just going and exploring more. Do you think that's a noble pursuit or do you think you stay and spread the word of God in the area you're at? Or do you think it's really like it's you don't know the person's heart or their convictions?
SPEAKER_05I mean honestly, man, for me, I think it comes down to what's Holy Spirit how how is he guiding you in life right now? On one hand, you're never gonna learn anything if you just talk to other people and say what's wise and good, and you never go do anything. And on the other hand, it's just an idiot that goes off and tries all of these other things and gets these experiences without listening to somebody who's older and wiser and maybe has done those things and learned some lessons. So I think it is a tension there that you're addressing where probably both are true. And and for me, that comes down to okay, what's God's will for the person? What like what we would have to get specific on like what is the experience that you're going after? What does that look like? Um, I think there are big decisions in life that God really does care about. So like if it's if it's uh you know, like, am I gonna take a month trip to Europe versus am I gonna move to the other side of the country for the next amount of years? I think probably one of those would be more consequential concerning how the life of a person ends up, you know, like obviously moving indefinitely to a different area across the country would be a little bit more significant concerning where that individual goes in life and what they do in their relationships, and a whole different world opens up if you do that. So if there's a significant decision that needs to be made like that, I want to be really prayerful. Um and I also don't want to get over spiritual and pray about what color shirt do I wear. Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What do you think? Um I've just I've noticed like I have a few like van life friends. Like I've I'm kind of part of like the outdoor travel filmmaking community, and I've noticed particularly like if people go into like Bali and stuff or or doing van life stuff where they are kind of able to travel around really cheap. Um it seems like they'll you're able to kind of join a community and then leave once you're like done or like frustrated with it. And so you don't really have your roots down anywhere. So you're not really like you don't have mentorship, you don't have like lasting impact in an area. It's kinda like the single serving friends. You don't have like real community. Um and I feel like I didn't not that I didn't understand the importance of community, but like having our house get flooded and then like all these people come out to help was like, oh yeah, community is like, you know, you you need it. Um and it's like the you know, that's like actual wealth there is like being in like a dire situation, but knowing you're like okay. Um But I'm just yeah, I guess I was curious on your take of like people that live like a more nomadic lifestyle, which I don't think it's necessarily wrong, but I'm curious how you have like mentorship through like a time like that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because it's basically you're living in a lifestyle that prevents that from happening. Yeah. And this is the tragedy of the modern man and woman uh in our culture sets us up for this hyper individualism. This it's been called rugged individualism, where the individual is all. You are the center upon which the axis of the unit, the universe pivots, right? Like it's we're shaped and formed to think that um I am significant, yeah, I am important. There was a dude, this crazy study came out a number of years ago. I remember using this in a sermon, um, where they looked at like cases of narcissism and narcissistic beliefs, and they were pooling all of these people and saying, Okay, you know, do you think that you're really important? And just exorbitant amount of people are like, Yeah, I'm really important. And then they were asking follow-up clarifying questions like, Do you think that you're important concerning global wars and like trade deals between nations? And the amount of people that said, Yes, I am, uh, is just it's it's astounding, it's striking, it's an effect of our modern approach to life and living, where we approach it really detached from community, detached from family. It's no longer in our culture, you know, you've got shaman honor cultures and you've got cultures built primarily more around the individual. Um, shaman honor culture is usually a lot more family. So we've got a Middle Eastern family that lives in our neighborhood and they're intergenerational in their house. They've got several generations living together. You just don't see, you know, white families in the United States really doing that. Some of them are now that the housing market is just so freaking insane. Um, but it's not really morally celebratory or uh a mark of you're a good person if you're living with your mom and dad and helping take care of them and your grandma and your grandparents, and if you have that intergenerational connection in the same house, it's not really like a oh hey, you're killing it in life. Probably people would look at you like you're dumb and you're doing something wrong, and why are you still living with your mommy and your daddy? Yeah. And uh so very, very different where the mark of maturity is more independence from the family system. And so in that nomad lifestyle, that I think is an expression of it where I don't want to be attached to anybody. I want my independence. I want to be able to, you know, survive off of the lowest amount of income that like lap laptop lifestyle. You know, I got a couple digital marketing clients and it's paying the bills so we can go from state to state, got the state, you know, or the the National Forest Service little card. So you can go stay at all these different camp spots and travel and do whatever we want. It's nomadic, it's individual. And uh I think you know, if you want to do something like that for a season, sure. What's the point, I guess? Yeah, why are you wanting to do that? Why would this person want to be doing that? And uh I think as a strategy for longevity and health, it's stupid because we are created for relationships, we are created for depth. And if you're not gonna have the connection to a community over a long enough amount of time to have conflict and then to work through that conflict, you do not mature as a healthy whole person. You're gonna be conflict averse, your relationships are gonna be shallow, and uh like you said, man, what what what happens when life gets tough? Yeah, what happens when there's crisis? Yeah, people make it so much more tolerable and bearable. Yeah. Um we've got the right type of relationships, and crisis is never planned.
SPEAKER_00So I think it'd be good for like a season. Like there's always been a little part of me that's like and maybe that's like you know, wanting to run away from stuff. But um I'm glad that I went, you know, and lived in San Diego and stuff and got a different perspective and that we've started traveling more like internationally, because like especially going to Bali, it was like it made me really appreciate here a lot more because it's like there's a lot of people there. And I feel like the value for human life over there is like lower than it is here. Like you can, you know, hire someone for like ten dollars a day and it's just like I don't know, it was it's interesting perspective on like what we have here versus like what other countries have. Um but I do yeah. I do know a few nomadic people who seem like they don't have like that good, like solid family group or like a core group. It's sad. Are they believers? Um I don't I guess most of the ones I know aren't. Okay. So I'm curious how that would work. Because like if you don't have like a church you're going to, you know.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, do you have Christian community? Yeah. Do you have a pastor? Um, do you have a group of people that you're following Jesus with? Because that's the thing about Christianity, dude, is it's it's about following Jesus in the context of a community of people. So you look at this is what he does, dude. Like he shows up and he doesn't call one guy. Yeah. It's not come and follow me in isolation. Yeah. No, he calls Simon, Andrew, you know, like down the list, James, John, Jude, all those guys. He's he calls them to follow him in the context of Christian community.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think there's some people, you know, there's some certain towns around here locally that maybe they could benefit from going and exploring in a van for a little bit, realizing that you know, just this one area is not. All there is to it.
SPEAKER_05How dare you say that about Lyndon Washington, dude? How dare you? I'm just saying I was born, bro.
SPEAKER_00It's my hometown, Linden Lions, green and gold. There's there's more than just, you know, what happened to Betsy's son at the soccer game or something. Like there's there's so much great things to see in the world.
SPEAKER_05So actually, what's really interesting is if you go back to this is gonna feel so tangential and random. I'll bring it back, I promise. But like so the modern scientific method came from from followers of Jesus, like guys like Sir Thomas Newton, who was basically like, hey, you know what? God created the universe, he ordered it in such a way that we it's our duty and our obligation as creatures to discover, to learn, to look at this because it's going to, as the psalmist says, the heavens declare the glory of God. And so as we're studying the universe and and God's order of how He created creation, um, it's ordered in such a way that it's discoverable. And as we're discovering things, we're learning about who God is. Yeah, absolutely. And so you're totally right, dude. Like they're if you're gonna stay just in a small, you know, community of a couple thousand people, then you're never gonna branch out, you're there's a whole world that God created out there, and uh and I don't necessarily think that that's a good thing to just not be willing to experience it. Yeah. In a in a good, godly way, appropriate way, of course. Like you were saying, we're not gonna use this as an excuse to go to Nepal and you know, start doing all this weird meditation weirdness stuff. Sure. And but I mean, you know, like it is interesting when you go to another country and you experience a different culture, it's very eye-opening.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's pretty cool. I have this friend who does a lot of like mountaineering hikes and stuff, and he's just like, there is something wrong with him. Like he is so he solo summited Baker at 16. He um just climbs all these crazy mountains, and um now he you know posts about it online and has gained like a pretty good following doing it. Um and I went on a a hike with him, I think it was like last year. And I guess it was more of you know, more of a walk in his eyes, but it might have been like a a mid-hike for me. Um but we were talking about just like creation and how like crazy it is, and he was talking about like how he didn't believe in God before he started doing a lot of this, but after like all the things he's seen in the past year, he knows like there like has to be like a creator or like a higher power. I just thought that was pretty cool, like that you can experience God through nature and stuff like that. And I know that gets you know the the the theology on that can get a little pantheism, panantheism, sure.
SPEAKER_05God is everything or everything, and you know, what which is heresy, not true. God is not the tree, God created the tree, yeah, and the tree testifies to his glory, but God is not the tree. Yeah, that's weird. So what what back to the psalm, right? Like the heavens declare the glory of God. You're not gonna know what that means if you don't go look at it, dude. Yeah, you know, yeah. I've talked to a bunch of people, same thing. Well, I've experienced it. I mean, it's so beautiful where you live in the PNW. There's uh all of these amazing hikes, and uh, I got a buddy who's very uh outdoorsy guy, you know, like rock climber, alpinist, uh has done all the stuff around here, and so he's he's taken to me some just some just crazy spots where you're just you know spending the night on top of this mountain, yeah. And full 360 panoramic views of the cascades and the stars and the moon and the sunrise, it's a spiritual experience. It is, and we're all stuck in our basements doom scrolling on TikTok, and that's what pr we're preferring, and so everybody's bored and not living in wonder because we're not experiencing the wonderful world that God has created. Yeah. So yeah, get outside, kids.
SPEAKER_00I was getting pretty like overwhelmed this week and just like because we got a lot going on with like the house and client work and my job, and then I was I was just getting in my head a lot, and so we went, and then I went out and walked around Clayton Beach and took some product photos for a client and it was like just beautiful out. Like it was finally sunny, it feels like the winter crusade is kind of subsiding a little bit. Um and it was just like a good reminder of like it's like you don't you know you don't matter all that much. Like it's not like your problems are not that big of a deal. Like you'll be fine at the end of the day, at the end of the day, the earth keeps moving and it's we live in a beautiful area. Um but that was awesome. I felt like a little hug.
SPEAKER_05Little hug. Sauron's reign of darkness is breaking over us, dude. We're coming into the light of day.
SPEAKER_00Well, we felt sun for the first time in you know months. It was like it's crazy.
SPEAKER_05It's been people start getting nice again. Sure. You know, everybody's got a pep in their step around here. Yeah. Stop getting flipped off in the Costco parking lot. Yeah, dude, it really feels like a trial and tribulation everywhere. Dude, it is. It's so dark. Absolutely is. But beautiful place, but that is part of the tax for sure. Yeah. It's uh I feel like it almost takes me out each year. It sure does. So gnarly. Yeah, so get out and explore. I think that there's it's just like with many things, there's a tension. You don't want to live the nomad lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Jesus was a nomad during his ministry.
SPEAKER_05This is classic, like isegeting Bible twisting, and how the nomad dude would actually use that against us right now, dude. So let's tell okay. So let's talk about that. So he did he did travel. Yeah, he did travel, he did it in community and he was on mission. So this was not like trying to figure out how to get a few, you know, like social media clients to go and like live the van life as we have it. But um, yeah, yeah, I I think it's good to get out, I think it's good to explore. And uh the thing is like also, and this is another thing that I'm thinking about is um I don't I think a really great way to do that is in the context of like you know, the Christian church.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Go on a mission trip. Yeah. Go like YWAM or something. Yeah yeah. Um I mean, let's talk about what base you're going to. But yeah, um, I'm talking with a local pastor right now, amazing guy, Hispanic dude, just one of the most godly dudes I've ever met. And uh he's losing a bunch of his this is a hot take, uh, a bunch of his congregation to deportations from ICE. Oh, dang. And um he's expecting like 80 plus church plants in Central America. Oh wow. And so I'm in conversations with him, and our board is in conversations with him about like, okay, so what are we gonna do to help? Yeah. And uh he's got a vision for this training facility, looking at this property. It's like, okay, well, can we raise some money for that? What do you need? Uh, let's get teams down there to go build this thing up and like it's gonna be a church planting, uh, you know, like training facility for church planters and pastors to continue to raise them up, invest in them, and then send them out to these Central American countries, and also a place for people who are getting deported from the US right now to potentially land in a place that feels like home in a Christian environment, um, where they can get acclimated to okay, where are you going? Where's your home? How can we help support you? And um, so you know, I mean, dude, Christians are doing the coolest freaking stuff right now. Yeah, like that type of stuff is happening, and there's work like that that's been around for a long time that's going on. And uh and and if you do, if you partner it with like a church or a ministry like that, it's gonna be a lot cheaper. And there's a kingdom component that is really awesome where you know, like this is it's not just for the sake of experience and branching out for the sake of branching out, it's like I'm stepping into this story of God and what he's doing in the nations of the earth. There's like purpose behind it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I like that. It's good. So Bryce Crawford came out with an energy drink that's Christian. What do you what do you think about that?
SPEAKER_05Man, I don't know what makes an energy drink Christian, I guess. I think a part of the uh I've been kind of trolling through the comment section because this is what I do for fun. And I think some people got some interesting point about like, you know, Bryson, I love that you're doing this, and you know, I wish that your ingredients were Christian. It's like what is okay? What do you even mean by that? Yeah, and I think a part of the critique is like you're putting crap in people's bodies and you're calling it a Christian thing. Um got like myrrh in it or something. Uh yeah, so I I think it's cringy, dude. I'm having a difficult time with it. Yeah, I think that you have a dude that builds a personality brand for himself uh on social media and gets a ton of attention from Christians everywhere. I mean, he's the dude's on a generational run. Like he's he and I think a part of it is absolutely God's using him to do some great stuff. And I don't think any of this is like totally nefarious or malicious. Yeah. I don't think that he set out with this, you know, like you always have like the cringe right in Christianity that just like, you know, oh, you're doing something cool for God. I'm disillusioned and cynical because I tried and it didn't work, so I'm just gonna judge everybody else that God's using. And they're saying, you know, like this was his plan all along to get famous in Christian circles and then develop a merch product and a brand for himself and then sell it, monetize it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, he has to, you know, he's gotta monetize somehow, right, to keep going, or like just take donations or something. Like, how else would he make it?
SPEAKER_05I think there's better ways to do it than freaking an energy drink, dude. Honestly, that's just me. I do think it is a little cringe and a little weird. I think there's it looks bad. It's bad optics.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I think there's a push from like like what I'm imagining happened is and I know he had someone else on his podcast previously that has like an energy drink company or like some drink company that's like also Christian, because they do the same thing. They put the the QR code to like a scripture. Um, and what I'm imagining happened from like the time I spent in like the creator world is like he's probably like, okay, how do I actually monetize this? Or someone's telling him, You need to monetize your ministry or whatever. Um but he was probably saw someone else doing it, and then they're like, Hey, we can help you set up all you have to do is be the face of it, and you get equity in it. Um, and you just have to promote it. We handle all the back end, and then they made this thing. Because that's what it looks like from the outside. It looks like it was just all generated by someone else, and then he's just promoting it.
SPEAKER_05Sure, and I'm sure that that and again, I'm sure I just I always want to be really careful when we start judging people's motive and their intention behind things. Yeah, I'm sure none of this was nefarious. Absolutely. I'm sure that there was not a you know, like a plan that he ha maybe, you know. I mean, people have surprised me many times.
SPEAKER_00He doesn't take me as the kind of guy to do that. I feel like at his heart, like if he if money was like not a factor at all, I feel like he'd keep just doing exactly what he's doing. But I think he really does want to just like build something um and be able to monetize what he's doing. Because it's so hard to monetize on social media, like especially with what he's doing, like what are you gonna do? Get ad space for that.
SPEAKER_05Dude, I think you'd be surprised at some of the speaking fees. Yeah. I think that and and again, I don't know, but I do know uh that speaking fees for Christians that have influence on social media, they can get pretty steep. So I'm not making a judgment. I'm not saying, hey, Bryce, when you watch this, yeah, release your freaking statements.
SPEAKER_00Are you gonna invoice me for this?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. Um and uh but I do I do think bad optics, dude. I think it looks bad. I'm concerned about it for sure. I I think that we need to be really careful as followers of Jesus when it comes to money and the pursuit of money. Yeah, there's so much sin in our culture around what we're willing to do for money that as Christians we have been discipled by it. Yeah, and we need to be careful. The scripture says that the love of money is the root of all evil. Money's not the root of all evil, it's the desire. That's what the scripture contemps. It's it's the love of it. And so I think motivation is really important. And again, that's between him and God. God sees his heart. Yeah. Um, but at the end of the day, dude, I have no problem saying bad optics, and this just looks bad. Like you build a personality brand for yourself, uh, and you get this huge following, and then all of a sudden you come out with a Christian product that you're selling to everybody, yeah, and it's gonna be successful, I'm sure, and he's gonna make a good amount on it. Like, you know, and I I get it. Paul's a tent maker. Yeah, I've always been buy and try vocational, but here's what I don't do as somebody with a business on the side. 99% of my church has no idea what I do on the side to make money. You don't promote it, and I'm not going after different people within the congregation that I could benefit from by getting them, convincing them to hire me for my services. Yeah. Um there's there's one guy that I work with that goes to church at my church, and that was a connection through my partner that I didn't initiate, and I was really hesitant and skeptical about because I'd never want to mix those two things. Sure. I'm here to love and to serve and to give, not to figure out how to manipulate and twist for my own financial advantage.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've admired that how you do that. It's like because I didn't know about your business at all until like we came closer personally. Um, but it's not like you'd know. Like it's not like you're starting the sermon with like a 15% discount code. Use my promo code anybody looking for it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think it's the air we breathe, dude. I think it's just I think that the con the Christian conscience is so screwed right now because it's been so shaped by Western culture, yeah, that we just don't bat an eye at it. And I think it's worth batting an eye at. I think it's worth considering, and I think it's a good conversation to have and something to think through. Personally, I don't know how I could do something like that. Yeah. Like if that was my pathway, what his has been to such attention in the Christian world, yeah, um, and then to use the platform that I have had to um promote a company that I have. Yeah, that's jacked because the whole platform has been this idea of giving Jesus away. Jesus said, Freely you've received, so freely give. Um, I don't think that Jesus is trying to set us up as disciples with a great marketing strategy. Sure. Um, Jesus was broke and homeless, so bad guy to look at to try to take notes from as far as if this is a good idea or not. Sure. He's living by faith. Was he broke though? Didn't he have someone to manage his own money? He did. So there had to have been at least some money. He yeah, I mean, that funded his ministry. But uh and and plus, if you take the early church as witness, uh in the Diddykey dude, there's this line in there um that talks about how you know if you have an apostle, this is so amazing. If you have an apostle and he stays with you a day, that's cool. If he wants to stay with you two days, he's a false prophet. Uh, and especially if he asks for money. Or sometimes the second day is okay, but there's a line in there specifically about if he asks for money, he's a false prophet, he's a heretic, don't have any dealings with him. Because the idea was you get these traveling itinerant dudes who are just like, I'm an apostle, I'm a prophet, I'm here to build up the church, and then they just try to mooch off the church, and so they get all this money, and then they get, you know, uh housing, and they get all of this stuff, and um and and so they're they're warned as the church to watch out for that person, the dude that shows up, which is like here's my speaking fee, here's what I want you to pay me, here's what you know, they were mooching off of the church, and the Diddy's like, Yeah, don't do that. Watch out for that person because it's telling you something about the motivation, the intent of their heart. So that's a thing. Maybe, and the scripture says the worker deli d deserves his wages, yeah, and Christian ministers should get paid from the money that comes in. Um, I think that's absolutely clear and undeniable. The debate is what's that number? Yeah, how much is it? How do we decide that? Because there's no specific number that we see in the scripture, and what are the means by which that money is generated? Sure. And I do think it's weird when you have a guy with a huge social media platform and following, the whole thing is about sharing Jesus, you know, praying for people, preaching the gospel, and then all of a sudden that becomes the platform also that's being used to launch this side biz. I'm cool with the side biz, I've got a side biz. I've always had at least one, sometimes two, sometimes three, um, between my wife and I in particular. And I just won't use my the platforms that God has called me to steward to promote those things. Yeah. Like, I don't know how you do that, dude. That that makes me want to vomit. What about like a thinking about doing that?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's different if it's if it's separate from Like if he's if he's doing like an ad read on his account. Do you think that's bad? Oh, what? An ad read? Like if like a sponsored post. Like, hey, this is Bryce, and I just bought from New Song Church's merch store, and you should buy it. Which we don't have, by the way. But you should use Bryce 15, you know, like a influencer ad read. Honestly, do you think that's bad?
SPEAKER_05On that note, I'm surprised that brands don't go after pastors more, honestly. Interesting idea. I mean, honestly, right? Like, think about it. You get these dudes that are up in front of thousands and thousands of people every single week, yeah, with tremendous, oftentimes ill-found influence. Like, what a great market to go after for a brand company. There's do you know Michael Coolanos? Uh-uh. Okay, so he's Jesus Image. I think they're in Florida. He told a story about, you know, he was at this one event where he was repping that he had this one like water that he was drinking, and then he like promoted it as a joke. And then he was like, they should reach out to me and and sponsor me. And so they reached out to him and asked him to be a sponsor. And I think they I don't think he totally went through with it, but they did send him a bunch of their water. Um, so apparently some people do think that way. But I would want to see him, if I was Bryce's pastor, I would warn him about what he's doing, and I would encourage him, just as Paul was a tent maker, he generated income apart from the church. There can be a a noble that can be a noble thing. Yeah um I would just want him to not use the platform that God has built around him to promote a product. Yeah, I want to see him go through a process of learning how to do marketing, how to learn how to promote something, how to you know invest what he does have in those other ventures and have a clear line of separation for the purpose of being above reproach. Um, because I can almost guarantee, dude, there's uh there's so many non-Christians that are gonna look at this and it's gonna do all sorts of nonsense in there when it already has. Yeah, you know, look at this guy. Like, was that your plan all along to get cool and then monetize it? Yeah. So that's what I think. And that's been my approach. That has been my approach. I've never promoted any of my businesses from any platform that God has invited me into to steward as a pastor, as a preacher, I won't ever do that. If Emmer, if ever I'm bringing it up, it's in context of a testimony of somebody meeting Jesus, and I don't even talk about what we do or how we do, how we uh you know, like the services that we provide or anything. Um, because I'm just not gonna cross that line.
SPEAKER_00Do you think that even like the idea of our Christian energy drink is like hyper spiritualization of like I need to do everything Christian, like I'll only buy from which I think for like you know, ethically sourced, like clothing and stuff, like what John Mark Comer talks about, I feel like that's fine. Like I think that's a good thing. I agree.
SPEAKER_05But I I don't Why don't you just call it like an ethically sourced energy drink? Why does it have to be Christian energy drink? You know what I mean? I mean like Paul Would you have a problem with that? Was Paul walking around like Like I make Christian tents. I have a Christian tent making company. I make tent I make Christian tent. Like, what does that even mean? How can a tent be Christian? Like followers of Jesus are like you can't make an inadiment object a Christian. That is something specifically reserved for human imagers of God. And so I think it yeah, have a company. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Is it do you think saying like Christian owned and operated is a bad thing?
SPEAKER_05You think it's like okay. Well, we're getting into semantics, and I think that that's fair and where the conversation should go. I don't have a problem with a company being something that is owned and operated by Christians, and even celebrating that and putting that out. Um I don't necessarily have a problem with that, and I don't think that that's inconsistent with using a platform that God built to promote your Christian product. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So Jesus was homeless. Do you think he's trying to make M and I more like Jesus by flooding our home?
SPEAKER_05Did God oh so bad. Please clip out my laughing right there. So God wants to make you guys live in a town of how many thousands of people, and God is so committed to you guys becoming like Jesus that He sends a flood on however many tens of thousands of homes, destroys all of their lives, just so you guys can experience the nomad lifestyle and become more like Jesus. What do you think? No. Okay. I think that God's using it though in your lives. I think so. I don't think that, you know, didn't necessarily cause it, but I think that he uses stuff like that to make us more like Jesus. So well, okay, and let me ask you that question. How is your guys' how has your guys' house getting flooded, wrecked, living with a family that's not your own right now, displaced from your house? Yeah. How has that made you more like Jesus? Or has it?
SPEAKER_00Um I think it's good for I'd say a few things. So first was like the community aspect of it was really good. Realizing that there's like I feel like it's easy to grow into like cynicism of like people just do things for money. Or like especially if you're in like the business world, like you see so much of that where it's like a lot of motives is just money. Even if it's like uh I'm going to help you to do this, but I think you talked about this in your sermon this past week. Like literally being generous to people, but knowing like I might get something in return. It's not actual generosity, it's like you're trading something or that you're trying to get to a higher status with people.
SPEAKER_05The good that we do for others, yeah, we're doing it because it's actually good for us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But with I didn't feel that at all, but like like Wes was like, dude, this is like we're gonna cover all of this. Like y'all don't gotta worry about it. And it's like every step of been like, hey, what are we gonna do with this? Like our fridge is even broken. Like, and he's just like, go pick out a fridge. And it's like just crazy, because it's not like I feel like there's anything. Like I even talked to him, I was like, hey, if you need help with you know social media stuff. He's like, dude, like y'all don't owe us anything, we're just helping you. I was like, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_05Um It's overwhelming, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's crazy. It's like so unnatural. Like I'd and I think humans kind of operate in like a you do something nice for me, I'd need to do something nice for you. Um and so when it's a kind of situation where it's like, no, we're just literally helping you as a community. I think it's like that's pretty cool. And that's like it it makes me think that um not think, but it makes me realize that that's you know, that's like a lot of the strongest Christian men aren't the ones like in the spotlight that you like see on social media. It's like the the dude dudes that own the construction companies that are just present with their employees and with their family, or even just like they're just working at the company, they just do a really good job and they honor God with their work and then they show up for their family. Those are like you know, not the people that you're necessarily seeing on social media. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's like it's cool. I like that part of it. And then you know, living with other people and um yeah, it's just been it made me grateful for having our own home.
SPEAKER_05So yeah. It's good, man. God'll use it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05It's amazing how we live in a God saturated, saturated universe. Like he's he's involved, he's present, he's there, he's doing stuff, he's teaching, he's leading, and he's a good father. And um excited to continue to see your journey there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think also like how how much habit is connected to environment. Like when you go into a new house, it's almost like you get to build new habits. Like obviously there's stuff you bring with you, but I feel like like a small maybe like 40% of habits are like environmental environmental, yeah. And so it's like you kind of get to build up that foundation again. It's like how do I want my day to look like? How do I how strict do I want to be with like when I wake up um and like how I spend my time? It's like a reset. Yeah. So it's interesting, and I'm excited to move back in and kind of reevaluate how we want our habits to be built.
SPEAKER_05Um yeah. It's good, man. Habits are important. Yeah, you and I are a little more than our habits. Yeah. Shape us to become the people that we are, shaped us to become the people that we are, and the people that we're becoming, very important. Good opportunity to reevaluate, revisit, and reprioritize. And what's the date you guys are looking at to get back in the house, you think?
SPEAKER_00Uh around next week. Oh, really?
SPEAKER_05Oh, imminent. Yeah. I'm sure it's um your wifey team is pretty excited about that, I would imagine. We're stuck. Let's recognize that we live in a God-saturated universe and have an awareness of that and a reverence for that and treasure that and uh grow in our ability to live into the fullness of what that means in all of life. Never need to try hard to find the presence of God. And He's working in amazing ways in my life. And I want to I want to see that, I want to find it, I want to look for it, I want to expect it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.