Call Him Father

Did Jesus Drink Wine? Communion, Alcohol, and Judas

• Call Him Father • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In this episode of Call Him Father, Micah and Pastor Taylor talk about Bible translations, alcohol, drunkenness, communion, and the story of Judas.

They start with a lighter conversation about the Bible app, paper Bibles, Bible translations, and why Taylor generally recommends translations like the ESV and NIV while warning against weaker paraphrases and unreliable translations.

From there, they ask whether Jesus drank wine, what the Bible actually says about alcohol, and where Christians should draw the line between drinking and drunkenness. They discuss personal conscience, wisdom, addiction history, caring for your body as a temple, and why the Bible condemns drunkenness without creating rules God did not make.

The conversation then moves into communion and why the Lord’s Supper should be approached with reverence. Taylor explains why communion is not just a casual religious ritual, why unbelievers should not feel embarrassed staying seated, and why Christians should examine their hearts before coming to the table.

Finally, they talk about Judas, whether he went to heaven or hell, what his betrayal reveals about sin, money, false discipleship, and the difference between Judas and Peter. Both betrayed Jesus, but Peter returned to Christ and received grace, while Judas did not.

Call Him Father is a podcast tackling hard questions about faith, life, and following Jesus in a modern world.

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SPEAKER_00

Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Call Him Father podcast. We're so glad that you're with us today. And uh we're gonna talk about communion, alcohol, drunkenness. We're also gonna talk about Judas and is he in heaven or is he in hell? And what can we learn from his story? So we're glad that you're here, and that's gonna be a good one. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_01

Is it okay to press no when the Bible app asks if you love the Bible?

SPEAKER_00

If you want to go to hell.

unknown

I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00

Dude, I hit no on that all the time. I hit no because I think it's gonna stop bugging me. You heard it here first, and then it it keeps bugging me. And so I keep saying no, I don't love the Bible lab. No, I don't, because I've also done yes. Here's the thing with the Bible app that drives me crazy. I hit yes first, is this is what I did, and then I left a review. I'm like, oh, I love this thing, it's so great. I wish we could get it in the hand of everybody, and you know, it's changed my life, it's awesome. And then a couple months later, I get the same notification again. Do you love the Bible app? Yes or no? And so I did a couple more, yes, I love the Bible app, it's great. And then eventually I got so frustrated, dude. I started saying no, and it's still bugging me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, I think if the uh developers of the Bible app are listening, please, for the love of God, help us all.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. I'm beginning like every other week, and I feel a little bad every time I press it.

SPEAKER_00

What are you doing? What's your process? How are you working this thing out with Jesus?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, usually I'll press no, then I'll a repentance prayer. You know?

SPEAKER_00

I'm sorry, God, I do love your word. Yeah. But the developers of this thing just piss me off.

SPEAKER_01

I get it. And that's uh that's my process. Usually more more so just pressing now.

SPEAKER_00

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01

Do you love the mica?

SPEAKER_00

Do you love the mica? Do you love the Bible, Micah?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's good. Praise God. Can't wait for the second one. Mormon's got that covered though.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say that's a that's a s that's a future episode. When we tackle Joseph Smith there.

SPEAKER_01

Um, you see the Bible app added if you miss your streak, now you can restore it. What does that mean? So, like if you're on the Bible app and you open it, you get a little streak. Um, and now it's like if you miss it by a day, you can get it back.

SPEAKER_00

It's the grace of God, man. So I thought that was interesting. Christ Christ riches at Christ's expense. For me, that's what it is. I'm old school, man. I do paper Bible. Really? I do paper Bible.

SPEAKER_01

So do you think someone sh should be using a paper Bible? Also, what version of Bible should they be using?

SPEAKER_00

I am a fan of paper Bible because it's tactile. It's you're not gonna here's what I love about it. I can guarantee you, if it's just you and your Bible, you are not going to, and you're I mean, I guess you could grab your phone and get distracted, but if it's just you and your Bible, you've shut out technology, you're not gonna like you know, start scrolling on Instagram and uh get yeah, getting buzzed by everybody. And uh there's something about a paper Bible, um, where it's just you and the text in front of you. You can mark it up, you can write on it. I know there's ways to do that with one thing that I've done before where I'll take a screenshot in the Bible lap, bring it over to an Apple note, and then kind of blow up the page a little bit so I can take notes with my pen in the side you know, columns. That's really great. But I'm more of an old school dude. I I want my Bible, I want a journal open, and I want to eliminate all technological distractions and just see God that way. But that being said, when you know, like we've had it here where I've been on my phone Bible app thing, and I'm cool with it. It's quick.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's good to have both, but yeah, you can, which is great.

SPEAKER_00

That's another thing where you can look at ESV, NIV, Amplify Classic, NLT, Compare Contrast, good old King Jimmy, bring that in there even. Um, so to your question, then what Bible to read? Um, this is when I think knowing a little bit about how Bibles are translated are helpful. You've got more word-for-word translations and then more thought-for-thought translations. Um, and typically I want people to lean a little bit more word-for-word literal translation, which is why I recommend like the ESV and even the the NIV. I do appreciate. Um, I want to encourage people to stay away from translations like the passion translation, which is just total garbage, trash, nonsense.

SPEAKER_01

Don't even as the message.

SPEAKER_00

No, message is message is a little bit different. It's more thought for thought. Okay. Um, I think it's better than the passion translation for sure. Wes Huff has a great little infographic that he put together that I've used in a weekend service context where he actually lays out all the different types of translations, and uh you can see them on that map of word for word, thought for thought, paraphrase, and where each translation lands. But as a general rule of thumb, I'm always encouraging people, bro, to pick up an ESV or NIV.

SPEAKER_01

I'm NIV, but Emma said I need to be using ESV. So, but I like NIV and then Amplified if I need to know more context.

SPEAKER_00

And the amplified is great because what it does is it helps bring some more color to the words that were used in the original languages. So, for example, when it comes to let's use John 17 3 as an example here. This is eternal life, that they know you, the one true God in Christ Jesus whom you've sent. When we see that word know, we think of just like an intellectual knowledge, like, okay, well, I know that the God of the Bible is God, and Jesus is the Christ. Okay, I know that. What's actually going on with that word know is it is referring to the deepest, most intimate knowing. Um, it's used in context of a husband knowing a wife in the marriage union. So this is Jesus is saying this is eternal life to know God in that manner at the deepest level of potential intimacy that we have that we can wrap our minds around as human beings. Jesus is saying that's what eternal life is. It's to know God in that in that type of way. It's not a sexual, weird, gross thing. Yeah, it's God saying to us, This is how I want to be in relationship with you, and this is what you can understand because of your human relationships and how they work, and applying that in relationship to himself. Yeah. So the amplified is going to be helpful because it can point stuff like that out and it can say, you know, it I don't actually know if it has commentary on that verse specifically. Um, we could look that up, but it'll be helpful to add some more languages around words that are important that we miss because Greek, ancient Greek, uh is a lot more colorful of a language, a lot more depth, in particular ancient Hebrew, um, than modern English would be. Um there can be a word with multiple meanings. Yeah. Uh we have love, right? So if you go back to Greek, Greek, you know, I love my wife, I love my dog, you go back to the Greek writings of the New Testament and you can see love, but it's it's one of four different words. It's agape, it's eros, it's phileo, etc. So amplified can be helpful with that. Gotcha. Bring in some more clarity.

SPEAKER_01

Good question. Did Jesus ever drink wine? Because he made the wine, so do you think he ever partook?

SPEAKER_00

I think he did. He made 120 gallons of it in John 2, and you get people that will say, you know, well, it wasn't alcoholic. Um based on my study, man, I'm not convinced of that. The word that he uses is oinos, which is a word for wine. Um, I don't have a problem with Jesus making 120 gallons of wine. The Old Testament says that God made wine to gladden the heart of man. Paul commands Timothy to drink a little bit of wine for his stomach because he had a stomach ailment. And it's the fermented part of wine that can help with stomach issues. It's not just like a grape juice. Interesting. So I uh he Paul just says in Ephesians 4, don't get drunk on it. So I what do you think that looks like?

SPEAKER_01

What do you think drunkenness looks like?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so I think there is gonna be a little bit of subjective personal conscience case-by-case application to this question. So for example, when Paul in Ephesians 4 says don't get drunk on wine, he doesn't say don't blow a 0.05, you know, on a breathalyzer. He doesn't say that, or whatever the legal limit is, 0.01 or whatever, point one, but whatever shows you what I know. Um but it does say don't get drunk, and so I think that we can see kind of a tapestry of wisdom in the scripture as far as what we're working on avoiding. So drunkenness can lead to debauchery, sexual immorality. You the scripture has a really big emphasis, bro, on soberness of mind. Yeah. Um, and when I'm bringing foreign substance into my body that's altering my brain chemistry, it's a big deal to God. Yeah. And so, but we also don't want to get dogmatic and say, well, so therefore you can never drink it. Well, the Bible doesn't say you can't ever have wine or you can't ever have beer or you can't ever have a Moscow mule or whatever. Yeah, it says don't get drunk on it, but it doesn't say you can never have it. And so this is where I do think personal wisdom and history applies. So, for example, something might be sin for you that's not sin for me here. Interesting. It's sin for both of us to get drunk because that's what the Bible condemns. But let's say one of us has a history with alcoholism. Sure. Um, so for you, Micah, if that's the case, you know, it would be wise and for you to never touch alcohol again. If this is something that blew your life up, you went through rehab, let's say, and you know, when you touch the stuff, it's just you start spilering out and you just start drinking more and more and more and more, and it's bad for you. Uh, and that's the effect that one drink is gonna have on you, just don't touch it, man. Yeah, and for you it could be sin. For me, it might not be because I don't have that history with alcohol. Um, and so I do think that there is a part of this where uh, you know, what what is sin for you might not be sin for me. Sure. I think that we need to be really careful to start making rules for God because that's what the Pharisees did, and Jesus didn't like them very much. Yeah. And the scripture never says don't drink. Um, it says don't get drunk. Yeah. And so if somebody does have a history of weakness in this area, I would say it's gonna be wise and good for you to just not touch it, not go there. But you also need to not be religious and dogmatic and sit say to the dude who has never had an issue with this, who enjoys a glass of wine with his wife in the evening, yeah, you know, that he can't do that. Sure. Because I think that that's religious pharisaicalism that you're trying to impose on him. Yeah, you're trying to make rules up for God as well, and yeah, put that on him, and I don't think that's a good thing to do.

SPEAKER_01

And then also like the your body's a temple thing. Yeah. Like having a bunch of beer might not be the best for your body.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we know that, man. And on and honestly, that's such a good point, dude, because even one drink alters your brain chemistry, and you know, it does stuff to your brain, does stuff to your sleep cycle. Yeah, it's generally not a good thing for you.

SPEAKER_01

The sleep, dude, especially like as I've gotten older, I've realized like if I had a beer the night before, I'll notice I'm just like, I don't get the sleep I need.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, it's true. Um, and so I think that that's good to pay attention to. Uh, our bodies are a temple, the scripture says, and so we want to be sensitive as far as what we're putting in them and uh care for and steward the bodies that God has given us because you only got one, dude.

SPEAKER_01

I think situational as well, it's like if you're a father, right, and you're you go and you have like two glasses of wine at dinner, but your kids are there and you need to take care of them, like it might not be the best. Like if someone needed to get rushed to like the emergency room or something, maybe you know, not the best.

SPEAKER_00

Unwise. Can I give you my general rule of thumb with how I usually counsel people through this? Sure. Um this is and I can't, you know, you're not gonna find this specifically in the scripture. This is just inevitably where this conversation goes to. Yeah. Is the Bible doesn't condemn drinking alcohol, the Bible condemns drunkenness. What do we do with that dissonance? Yeah. So I've used this for years and it's helped me and it's helped a lot of people. Um I'll let our audience decide what they think. You tell me what you think. What I generally counsel people, dude, is once you feel something, stop.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. What does that even mean though? Like, because I feel like one glass of wine, you you're gonna feel okay. What that feeling something, does that mean like a conviction, or does that mean just any sort of like mental altering?

SPEAKER_00

Both hand. I think once you I think once you start feeling something, like once you feel it kind of kick in and it's like, oh, I'm feeling a little loose now. Or I'm feeling I'm feeling the effects of the alcohol in the case. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01

So it's not bad to feel that, but it's like once you are, then maybe you lay off.

SPEAKER_00

I I generally don't want to get there. Yeah. Really? I'd feel like one glass of wine and I would like half a glass of wine. You'll feel the relaxation of it one. And this is also what's complicated because people have different tolerance for alcohol. So for you're Irish, right? I'm bro, I'm Scottish and I'm Irish.

SPEAKER_01

You could have five beers, you know, and you'd be like, Well, that's too much.

SPEAKER_00

But when before I met Jesus and I was drinking, I could throw down dude. And and then I'd have, you know, you have a friend who's a girl who, or my wife, even, you know, like she can't have more than like half a glass of wine. Yeah. Um, because her tolerance is lower than I am. So that's why, as a general rule of thumb, I just say, look, dude, if you if you're drinking and you feel something, then just stop right there. Um, and don't drink anymore. Sure. Um, now people can twist that if they want to be religious about it, and like, you know, where you you also don't want to be dumb and like, okay, well, Pastor Taylor said, Stop drinking when I feel something, so I'm just gonna slam five shots and then I felt something, and so I'm gonna stop. Like, don't be dumb. Sure. Be wise. And I think this is where also it's good for everybody to wrestle this down with their own conscience, sure, and pray and seek God for wisdom.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so multiple factors going into this. Yeah, yeah. Like how are you treating your body? Because like then you could use a like let's you like a really practical example. Let's say you're in Hawaii, right? You have mimosa with breakfast, then it w wears off or whatever. It's lunchtime, then you have a margarita or something, and you're like progressively drinking throughout the day. Do you think that's a sin if you're not like ever at the point of drunkenness, or do you think that's just still treating your body poorly?

SPEAKER_00

I think that that principle would probably apply a little bit more there. Where it I mean, dude, three drinks a day, man, like that's space it space it out as far as you want. Like that's that's gotta be doing some damage. Yeah. Um and yeah, that's a little gross. That's a little gross for me. But I mean, hypothetically, like if you're not getting drunk, we can't pin you with the Ephesians text of don't get drunk on wine. Because technically speaking, you're spacing it out. I would appeal more to the principle of like, dude, your body's a temple. What are you doing? And why are you doing this?

SPEAKER_01

And what about Passover? Aren't you supposed to have like three glasses of wine during Passover? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_00

They drank wine on Passover, and again, I mean, like, yeah, what do we what do you do with that? Like, I mean, the people that want to say you can't drink wine ever, uh, but what do you do with that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. My parents would always host like a traditional Passover. I don't I don't that we just did Passover, even though we're not Jewish or anything. Um and I don't know why, but it was just like something I grew we grew up doing. Um but I remember like having the question of like because I think traditionally it's like three or four glasses of wine.

SPEAKER_00

Well, dude, take the Lord's Supper. Take the Lord's Supper. This is uh an also a great example here. Historic Christianity, it has been wine. And people that okay, so let's get a little technical with this for a second. Because this is the argumentation that people want to take to twist this thing to say you can never drink wine or alcohol. Sure. Um they'll say, well, you know what, back then it was non-alcoholic wine because the water wasn't good, and so we needed to put some alcohol in the uh or we need to water it down to the point of you know it's not gonna have any effect on your mind and your body. Sure. Um is the general idea. It was a sweetener, it was used to purify the water, so we water it down all the way, and it's not gonna be the same strength as what we have today, which there's definitely some truth to that. Probably. That being said, bro, go look at what Paul's rebuking the church for concerning the Lord's Supper. They you take communion with bread and with what? With wine, and it was alcoholic. And the reason I know that is because he rebukes them for drunkenness. Yeah, they're getting drunk on the communion wine, and Paul's rebuking them for it, and so you can't like use the whole, well, you know what, it's just it's non-alcoholic wine, and it was just watered down to the point of not then. How are they getting drunk at the Lord's table? And Paul's rebuking them for that.

SPEAKER_01

So it's gotta be a gnarly hangover getting drunk on communion wine. It's a lot of conviction.

SPEAKER_00

I don't seriously, I mean, how did they not die? Well, actually, we got some cude, we got some crazy accounts in church history. There's this one guy during the there was this persecution in early Christianity uh called the Diocletian persecution, where one of the emperors was just awful. Yeah. And a lot of this persecution hit leading up to like the Council of Nicaea era-ish. And um there was this one bishop, I forget his name, um, but we've got record of him talking with these other bishops about how he was pretty dogmatic about who could take the Lord's table. And he they would have these different pastors that would apostasize because of persecution, and they would go and they'd pinch off a little bit of incense to Caesar and the Roman temples and say Caesar's Lord, and they'd come back and they'd take communion and they'd want to join this guy's church. And he's like, No, I'm not gonna freaking do that. Yeah, um, because this is spiritual idolatry and this isn't good. And then these other bishops are trying to calm him down because, you know, look, dude, they're repentant. We need to restore them in a spirit of gentleness. What they did was awful, it was wrong, it was sinful, but we need to restore them. And the reason why he talks about that he was dogmatic about this is because he had dudes that would take communion in the church and then die. So there's this one example that he gives where there was this pe these people that went to a Roman temple, pinched off incense to Caesar, says Caesar is Lord, which is why you know the Christ is Lord. That was such a scandalous thing in first century. I could get you killed because you're supposed to say in the Roman world, Caesar is Lord, and Christians couldn't say that say that. Yeah, saying Caesar is the end all be all. You can have your gods, you Christians, whatever.

SPEAKER_01

Where's Caesar right now, though?

SPEAKER_00

He's in a tomb, dude. He's in a grave. And you can have your gods, but you have to say Caesar's Lord, and they couldn't do that because Christ is Lord, and so that's why they were getting persecuted. And so you'd have these people that would go to the temple, pinch off the incense, Caesar's Lord, come to the church. And there's one example he gives where people came forward after they did that, dude, took communion, and God struck them dead in the church. They got possessed by a demon and died on the spot. Bummer. And Paul talks about this also. We're so jacked on communion, theology, dude, in the Western church. It it grieves me so much. People have no idea. Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians, I think it's around 11, this is why some of you are sick, ill, weak, and some of you have died. It's because they're taking communion in an unworthy manner. They have bitterness in their heart towards other believers, they're living in sin, they're doing drunkenness, they're doing spiritual idolatry, and then they're showing up to the freaking Lord's table, bro, and they're taking communion. And as a pastor who presides over, you know, like the Lord's table in a weekend gathering. Mike, this just put this puts the fear of God in me every single week. Yeah. Where I almost like.

SPEAKER_01

You guys are pretty intense about it. Like you're drinking judgment on yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yes. And so much of this is because I care about the person that's taking communion, and I also care about my soul before God, and I don't want to be guilty of sin and not having a reverence for this thing, and just making it sort of uh placated, dumbed down. Uh, you know, Jesus loves you and it's all good, and just take communion and you can feel better about yourself, bro. You better be freaking careful if you're taking the Lord's Supper and you don't have any intention to change your life, and you're just gonna go home with your, you know, girlfriend that night, have sex with her, and move on with life throughout the week. Like it's it is amazing to me. How well I think I think the Bible's timeless and so it's always timely. And I think that this is a part of the reason why we don't see, not to get myself in trouble on the pod, but why we don't see uh a greater manifestation of the healing ministry of Jesus Christ in the church, it's because we're taking the Lord's table table in an unworthy manner. And this is why I think that people do sometimes get sick. I'm not saying all the time, sure, but I am saying if you got somebody that's living in habitual unrepentant sin and they're taking the Lord's table and they end up with some sort of a disease, sickness, whatever, like I I wanna I wanna figure out if there is a sin thing going on there because I think we got really good theological precedent to at least investigate in that direction. Sure. It's a really big deal, man. So, anyways, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01

As a non-believer, like let's say I'm having come on someone come with me to church, should they feel embarrassed about not taking communion?

SPEAKER_00

No, they shouldn't at all. Um, and I rejoice to see that. And I've told our church before, like, I I'm I'm looking forward to the day when you know a large portion of the room stays seated because they recognize there's a reverence here, and I'm not in a position to partake of this. Yeah, you should do a sermon on that whole thing because we should we've done them before, but yeah, man, you're you're you're right. I think it's it's good to do periodically, and we can probably do better there for sure. Um, the cool thing about the digital age is we do have it locked down on YouTube, so you can go to the NSC Bellingham um YouTube page, shameless plug, and type in communion, and you can find a message that I preached about all that. We go through some church history, uh go through why it our practice is bad today, what to do about it, and what our theology is at New Song be helpful for somebody.

SPEAKER_01

So did Judas go to heaven?

SPEAKER_00

I think that Judas is still in hell.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Why is that crazy?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I guess it's not crazy, but it's like, gosh, that's so let's retrace the story.

SPEAKER_00

Are you f well let me ask you this are you familiar with an argument that says that he I just never really thought about it or looked into it.

SPEAKER_01

I just because I just always assumed he was the bad guy, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Super bad guy. Yeah, like betrayed God for three pieces of silver, kind of kind of a big deal. So let's retra okay, so let's retrace the story of Judas. He's a disciple of Jesus. Scripture says that he was helping himself to the money purse that was funding Jesus' ministry. Yeah, he had money idolatry, he was a money guy, he loved money more than Jesus, clearly. You get to the end of Jesus' ministry, he's the son of perdition, he's a false disciple. Yeah, Christ washes his feet in John 13. The Lord's Supper is instituted by Jesus and he singles Judas out and he says, What you're about to do, do quickly. And then it says in the text, Satan entered him and he left. So Jesus knew that Judas was going to betray him. Yeah. And uh he was absolutely demonized. Um, I think that the demons latched onto him because of his own sinfulness and bad decision making and compromise. He opened the door for these things to come and wreck his life, and uh, they were happy to work with Judas to crucify God, happy to do it. Jesus says, What you're gonna do, do quickly, he goes to the religious leaders by night, image of secrecy, and takes them, leads them to Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, betrays the Son of Man with a kiss on the cheek, which I think we can take a lot from, dude. Public displays of affection for Jesus does not mean devotion to Christ. Jesus betrayed the Son of God with a kiss. It's an image of friendship, of closeness, of Rabbi, you're my teacher. And then it was at that moment that the mob descended on Christ. He was taken, beaten, spit upon, mocked, flogged, crucified, and killed. And Judas did it all for 30 pieces of silver. I thought I said three. Thirty. Thirty.

SPEAKER_01

What does that equate to in today's USD?

SPEAKER_00

I I think it it's some it's under a hundred grand, I'm pretty sure. I think it's like thirty to fifty thousand. Emma, you want to look that up real quick? Just a just a simple little chat GPT. So it wasn't like a hundred bucks though. No, it was it was a little bit more. It was enough to buy a field for him. He he bought a field with it, and then he ends up uh going and purchasing a field with that money. He deletes himself, hangs himself, his body falls, smashes up against some rocks, and his insides burst out. So his end was awful. Bad day. He did not repent, he did not return to Christ, he did not receive the grace of Jesus that leads to spiritual salvation. And I think that Judas is still in hell. I think you you look at the text also about um you know, let us camp become desolate. This is Old Testament prophecy about Judas. When he when he his you know inside spilled out on the property, it was viewed as like a desolate, desecrated space that you know couldn't be, you wouldn't want to purchase that again, basically. Um, and so it became inactive in its use. Um, so the per property that he purchased was cursed, and I think he was. But you you look at these old testament scriptures referring to Judas and his betrayal of Jesus and the effect of that. It's serious stuff, dude. It is serious stuff. So, what's really interesting though, we could talk about Peter. What's the difference between Judas and Peter, Micah? Because they both betrayed Christ, right? Yeah, like talk to me about Peter's betrayal. What did he do?

SPEAKER_01

Um was that the the three times?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. Um he denied Christ, bro. Yeah. Like, not just one time, yeah, three times. I've seen you with the with this Nazarene, this Galilean. You're one of his disciples. No, I'm not. I've never seen the man.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, no. You're you're one of his disciples. I've I've no I've never seen the man. No, you I've seen you following Jesus. I have no idea what you're talking about. I have no idea who this man is. He denied Christ three times in his hour of need and betrayal. I mean, absolute cowardice. Uh it doesn't get more egregious from a sin standpoint than denying Christ. Would you agree? And he did that. And then what happens is Jesus dies. Peter is in just deep mourning. I can't even imagine. Judas was also, obviously. I mean, if you think about that text, he went to end his life. Like he was in deep mourning over this in turmoil and torment. And so was Peter. Peter's story ends a little bit different, though. Peter is fishing, Jesus rises from the dead, he appears on the Sea of Galilee, calls out to them. John recognizes it's Jesus. Peter listens to John, it's Jesus. Peter jumps in the water, swims to the shore, and has breakfast with Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead. Yeah. And what Jesus does with Peter is he reinstates him and he asks him three questions. Do you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me? And it says a third time that Peter was grieved to the heart because Jesus asked him, Do you love me? Because he knows that his actions just prove that he didn't love Jesus. And the purpose of that is not to say that we're saved by our love for God, but we're saved by Jesus' love for us. Peter stuck around. Peter came back to Christ with his betrayal. Judas didn't.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So Peter's with Jesus, Judas isn't. I mean, can you imagine how excruciating that experience would be, though, for Peter? Sitting there. God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, a Mogdon, dude.

SPEAKER_00

He did he denied Jesus before his crucifixion that he even knew him. And then Jesus rises from the dead, and Peter's squaring off with him, realizing, like, oh frick.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You are God. You are God. Yeah. You did what you said. You are alive. And I freaking crapped my pants the worst imaginable way possible because I denied you, and here I'm sitting before you, and you have every right to kill me right now because of how I betrayed you. And then Jesus asked him, Do you love me? Peter, do you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me? I mean, just the absolute torment of that, bro. I can't even imagine. I'm sure he wanted to jump out of his skin, run away as fast as he could. And yet Jesus walks him straight through that betrayal and forgives him, puts grace on him. And Peter ends up going on in his life. Church tradition tells us that he was, he was crucified like Jesus was. So when it came down to it at the end of his life, the Roman soldiers said, Deny Christ, or we're going to crucify you. And he said, You know what? Not only am I not going to do that, I would request that you would crucify me upside down because I'm not worthy to die. How Jesus did right side up on the cross. So they crucified him upside down. Dang. That shows what grace does, man. Grace empowers, grace emboldens. When you realize that you're a sinner and that you're condemned before a holy God, and then you come to him in brokenness and he doesn't strike you down and judge you, but he puts grace on you, that will make you to become a strong, resilient man that can handle life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

In temptation.

SPEAKER_01

It's brutal. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you have any questions for future episodes, feel free to leave them in the comments or shoot us a DM on Instagram and we'll add them in a future episode. Make sure to follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Bye.