Fashion Verdict with ZellSwag
The Fashion Verdict with ZellSwag is a bold, high-fashion culture podcast where style gets put on trial. Hosted by ZellSwag, the show breaks down the latest in fashion, celebrity style, runway moments, red carpet wins and fails, streetwear drops, and pop culture chaos with sharp opinions, humor, and unapologetic shade. From “Trend Verdict” and “Designer on Trial” to deep dives into iconic looks and culture-shifting designers, each episode blends luxury fashion commentary with entertaining hot takes and insider-style analysis. Think Vogue meets reality TV reunion energy — glamorous, messy, funny, and brutally honest.
Fashion Verdict with ZellSwag
EP 07: Picture Perfect or Overexposed? | Fashion Photography on Trial
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Derek Blanks enters the Fashion Verdict court to talk celebrity images, creative pressure, iconic shoots, and the difference between picture perfect and overexposed.
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Welcome back to Fashion Burning, y'all. Welcome back, welcome back, where fashion gets praised, roasted, analyzed, and occasionally drugged to the courtroom. And baby, today, as y'all can see by my little posture I did, we're talking about fashion photography. Let's be real. Everybody got a camera, everybody done bought presets, everybody calling themselves a creative director. But what really makes fashion photography iconic? The vision, the lighting, the editing. And you can't forget about the storytelling. Or is it just having a celebrity repost your picture? I don't think that's a photographer. Today we got into the pioneers, the legends, the black photographers who change fashion forever. The new age of AI photography. And baby, are some of those photos becoming too perfect? Because some of these pictures, they look good, but they're not looking real. So the court is now in session. Okay, y'all, let's get into this week's hot takes. Back in the day, fashion photography felt like art. But now, everybody's heading against a brick wall with some cargo pens and smoke clouds and calling it a motherfucking photo. Let's really get into what photography is today. Okay, chat. We're trying to get into culture check. All right, y'all. Today's culture check, we're diving into some of the pioneer black photographers that you need to know about. And I'm gonna tell you. Okay, let's dive right into Gordon Parks, one of the first major black photographers for fashion and editorial. He also shot for Vogue. He changed representation in photography and filmmaking. He changed the way photography and filmmaking was represented, especially for us, black people. Let's get into Moneta Sleek Jr., a historic black photojournalist. Open the door for black creators and luxury in editorial spaces. Now let's talk Kwame Brathway. He helped shape black beauty and fashion imagery. The whole black is beautiful moment comes from him. He celebrated darker skin tones and natural beauty. Something that photographers are not doing today. Let's talk Tyler Mitchell, the first black photographer to shoot Beyoncé's bow cover. Now that's something to talk about. Shoot a Beyonce, a black superstar with a black photographer on one of the biggest fashion magazines ever? That's big. Let's talk Campbell Addy, known for his luxury campaigns and high fashion editorials. He celebrates black identity and beauty. Real beauty. I got a question for y'all. Do y'all feel that black photographers get the credit that they deserve within the fashion community? That's something for you guys to think about. Until the next culture check. See ya! Y'all! What? Hey! Hey! Today we are putting Lou Glaire on trial. So let's go ahead and get into it. We're talking about fashion photography, fashion fantasy, editorial moments, baby. So let's go ahead and get into it. Nobody did fashion visuals like Lou Glaire. The campaign, the iconic runway, the theatrics, the silhouettes. Absolutely insane. But the real question is: was Mou Glaire a genius? Or was it just some fashion confusion with some big shoulder pads? Let's go ahead and get into this right now. The case for Mou Glair. One thing about Mou Glaire, they're gonna give some revolutionary fashion imagery. So we gotta have that in there. Gotta give them that. They have so many iconic fashion campaigns, you can see them all everywhere. The theatric runway shows. Have you ever seen a Moo Glaire runway show? If you haven't, you're missing out, boo. You gotta go check one out. The celebrity obsession with Mou Glair like Kim Kardashian, Beyonce, Cardi B. We gotta be real with ourselves. Where are some of the cons? Hard to wear in real life. Some of you girls be in these Moo Glaire's looking like you stuck, like a statue, because you can't fucking move. It's just all this structure, and this shit got you all hands on tight and y'all walking around on your. Uh-uh. Is it rare fashion? Sometimes Moo Gare could be too extreme. Have you seen some of them archive pieces? Check them out. Not only that, some of the looks can come off a little bit costuming. I'm not gonna lie, some of the shit do look like that they on their way to Halloween. I'm not gonna lie. Trick-or-treat, bitch. Do you guys think that Mugler is one of the best fashion houses ever? Or is it just fashion that you admire from a distance? Well, let me know in the comments. See y'all. Okay, you guys, we're back with another swag on the scene. And this time we are outside asking people, what makes a great photo? Because I wanna know. I got a question to ask you. Um, what makes a dope, iconic fashion photo?
SPEAKER_05Creativity.
SPEAKER_01Like going depth, like I think it's like look.
SPEAKER_05Um the whole idea of the picture really, just it just it can't it gotta be more, I feel like. Not just a snap. Yeah, you could understand basically it gotta have some thought behind it and some meaning, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Couple questions I want to ask you. You look fly and everything. Thank you. Um, so my first question is what makes an iconic fashion photo?
SPEAKER_06Personally, I think um what makes a fashion iconic photo would be uh bringing that personality within that outfit that you're wearing. You know, for example, if you're wearing um denim on denim, heavy Tim boots, you know what I mean? Bringing more of like um a streetwear type of vibe to the poses, to the present. Um really who you are in that moment of the photo makes that.
SPEAKER_01So I got a question for you. What makes an iconic fashion photo?
SPEAKER_07An iconic fashion photo to me is just a photo that's the moment. Like everything speaks, the from the hair to the outfit to the shoes, everything is just a moment in itself. The photo is very memorable. It's just, you have speechless, like there's almost no critiques to it.
SPEAKER_01I done ran into one of my brothers, not one of my brothers, my brother, Rico. Y'all just crazy we just out here, but I gotta ask you a question like I've been asking everybody else. And today's question is what makes an iconic fashion photo? Like when you see like a photo on a magazine or something that you just be like, damn, that's a fly to speak to you.
SPEAKER_00To be honest with you, um, structure, posture is very important. And um, what you got on? You gotta put that shit on. Like make me make me look spice. Like, damn, that shit hard. Like, I wanna buy that. I need that.
SPEAKER_01What makes uh uh iconic photo?
SPEAKER_03Iconic photo? Uh-huh. Um photographer definitely clothes always gotta matter. It always matters regardless. So, you know, with a lot of the fashion now, it's kinda it's kinda common with a lot of streetwear that that's been going around, but I feel like if you add your own twist to it, it makes it a little bit more iconic. Yeah, it makes it a little different.
SPEAKER_01I got another question. So, how do you feel about like AI and photography?
SPEAKER_05I think it helps with people that need it. It definitely is like a different world almost because it really is.
SPEAKER_01No, that's the truth. Like this one I did. I just didn't I was sitting down on something. How do you feel about like AI and like photography? You know how people we can use like AI and their photography.
SPEAKER_06I love it, you know, because people that aren't able to afford certain things or have certain things.
SPEAKER_01Editors.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, editors and things like that. Personally, I feel like it adds to their confidence. It it puts them in that place or in that environment and allows them to see themselves in that moment, right? You know, for me, and I feel like everybody can benefit from that personally.
SPEAKER_01Um I agree because I use it. That's why I use it all the time. Check my Instagram, AI all down that motherfucker. What about like AI and photography?
SPEAKER_07Um, I do believe like everything is created in a moment for a reason. I feel like um it has its pros to it versus just like you know, little editing things like that. But as with technology, I do think things have taken have gone too far. Yeah. Yeah, like I think it takes away from the talent um that true photography has. Because photography is an art, um, just like everything else. It takes true talent, it takes a true eye. It's not something that everybody can do, you know.
SPEAKER_01But it's real, it's the true art behind the storytelling and all that. Like, yeah, I love the AI shit. I do feel like sometimes it do get, I don't want to see Usher Kitchen Chris Brown.
SPEAKER_07You know, it's a little disrespectful. Like um, old icons being put into different placements, you know, super right movements and things like that. Okay, you know.
SPEAKER_01It might be a little key for the moment, but then I think about it, it's like it's disrespectful.
SPEAKER_07Right, right.
SPEAKER_01How do you feel about AI in photography? Did you see like it's a lot of people using AI with photos and videos and stuff like that? How do you feel about the whole AI error?
SPEAKER_00I'm more hands-on. I feel like fashion is something that can be hands-on. I don't feel like AI can tell you how to put that shit on. It just goes off of analytics, and I'm very hands-on. So, me personally, I'm not against it, but I'm not 100% for it.
SPEAKER_01So I can see exactly what you're saying because uh um sometimes when you look at people's pictures when they're using AI, it don't even be them. It's like it's like it's just a character, like a whole nother character. How do you feel about like AI photography? You know how people are using AI a lot with their pictures and shit like that. How you feel about that, the whole era?
SPEAKER_03I feel like I ain't gonna lie, I feel some type of way about it. Like, I feel like it's more something that we shouldn't do because uh, you know, with fashion, it kills it a little bit. Because if we're using AI, we might as well just use that that fashion for us instead of trying to use it on AI. Right.
SPEAKER_01I think it's supposed to be like a tool where you're supposed to, it's like you have like uh Photoshop, you have like these different tool apps. I feel like it's supposed to be like a tool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it's it's nothing, it's nothing wrong with it, but it's like when you do it too commonly or like when you do it too much, it starts getting repetitive. You start looking like you don't even start looking like yourself no more. You start looking like a cartoon. That's that's the worst thing about it. Yeah, so it's exotic global. Make sure y'all go tap in what does we got?
SPEAKER_01Which one of the best ones?
SPEAKER_03Ooh, the Spider-Man one. Yeah, we go Spider-Man, man. I'm gonna show y'all what it looks like.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_01From one to ten. Well, personally.
SPEAKER_06Well, personally, your outfit gets a 10 out of 100 out of 100. I'm feeling the G-Shock.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, little something I had to talk about.
SPEAKER_06I love, love, love the wide leg uh.
SPEAKER_01I thought you were about to say the I thought you was about to say the nails. I'm like, uh.
SPEAKER_06Um the nails are nice too. I love the wide leg uh Kathy Denim.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_06That's the staple of the outfit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love these pants, but they're so wide-legged, you can't even see the shoes for real.
SPEAKER_06You found a shirt to match perfectly with the lamb bins. I'm fucking with that. Can I cuss? Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01These sour grapes. I don't like a red one. Okay, so my last question for you is I want you to rate my outfit. Even though I'm sitting down, you gotta get the little 360.
SPEAKER_05Okay, I like it. I fuck with it. This is like a uh eight. I fuck with it. I really like your hair. Thank you. And I actually didn't want to wear it.
SPEAKER_01This hair didn't go with this outfit, but it's just ended up what I had to do today. So I love the hair really. I go now.
SPEAKER_05Super cute.
SPEAKER_01And it's soft. Don't get stuck in your teeth for nothing. Oh, yeah. Here's like like Kool-Aid. This is gonna give you a little stand, a little spit. This is something real today.
SPEAKER_07Um, I give you 8.5. 8.5 That's very cute. Yeah, no, that's no, you give me your very loud, but you can still see that in the outfit. I do love the colors, it coordinates the nails.
SPEAKER_01A little cat eye.
SPEAKER_07Teasy detail. And I'm an accessory person, so I like that. Yeah, I love me too.
SPEAKER_01I love accessory.
SPEAKER_07You know, I feel like that really builds the outfit. Me too. I like it. Me too.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_07Nine. It's a chill day, y'all. It's a chill day. It's a chill day.
SPEAKER_01I thought we're gonna make sure I tap in. I just want you to rate my fit. How you feel about it?
SPEAKER_03Okay, let me see the kicks, man. Let me see the kicks. Okay, we go. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Little something, a little whose side, a little something little light, little. I'm gonna give it a 9.5. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01You know what he's gonna rank me. This is my brother. But I want you to uh rank my fit from one to ten.
SPEAKER_00Drip over his ten, brother. Drip over your fit.
SPEAKER_01Damn, I didn't even think of some of those. I'm gonna have to use some of those for my next photo. See y'all. I'm super excited about we're talking about fashion photography today. And you can't talk about fashion photography without someone that knows the art, the branding, and everything behind the camera. So we had to ask Mr. Derek Blanks to come in. Welcome, Derek Blanks, y'all.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, bro. I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm happy to have you here. Yeah. Um, you don't already know who so today's episode, we already was talking about just like fashion photography, just like, just like that, the art of catching that that perfect photo. So I was like, who could I who could I reach out to? And I was like, hmm, Derek. I was like, what? Everybody go to Derek. Everybody knows Derek. So for the people who may not know you, can you like explain and tell them a little bit who you are?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, sure.
SPEAKER_02So I'm Derek Blanks. I'm a celebrity photographer and director, content creator, art director. And I got my start here in Atlanta 2000. Um, I'm originally from Jackson, Mississippi. I moved here after graduating from the Maryland Institute College of Art, where I studied illustration. Um when I moved to Atlanta, uh, my brother went to school at USM, University of Southern Mississippi. So we love the South. So we decided to come back to the South and start, especially since Atlanta was high hopping right there, especially for black people. So when I got here, I started in corporate and worked in corporate four to five years. What was that? Um I was designing lottery tickets um for the Illinois Lottery. It's this company called Scientific Games in Alvaretta, Georgia, where um they basically did lottery tickets nationally. And my account was the Illus the Illinois lottery. So my background being an illustration, um, I would design and do illustrations and stuff like that for um lottery tickets, believe it or not.
SPEAKER_01So it kind of grew from the one of them must have hit then, you know? One of them might have hit, one of them illustrations didn't hit for a couple, you know.
SPEAKER_02But uh for real life, they started a uh merchandising uh department for licensed properties, like a monopoly and licensed game. So I got promoted because they found I could draw and do photography, all of that, but the rate didn't inflect reflected. So I decided to leave there and then um I started commuting to Cedartown, Georgia, which is an hour south. And um, I worked at a small place that did like field day t-shirts and embroidery and stuff like that. And one day I got racially profiled, long story short. And it was because I was black and um I had uh recently been in a car accident. I was in a rental car, and the cop pulled me over, like, you know, what you doing in these parts, kind of basically asked me to get in the back of the car while he searched my uh car and all that. And at that point, I knew that I wanna I was quitting. So that's the one thing that made me be like, hey, you don't have to have it right. And I didn't look back, like I started doing um freelance photography and pushing my brand, mixing illustration in there, reaching out to celebrities. The first client I did was uh Ludacris Foundation for uh Red Carpet. Oh, okay. And then, you know, I kind of got in where I fit in. Like I was doing red carpet events, and I the opportunity came for me to shoot him for his tantra, his energy drink line. Oh yeah, I remember that.
SPEAKER_01That was that was a because I used to love ludicrous, still do. Still do. But like, yeah, I remember that um that energy drink.
SPEAKER_02And it's crazy. I remember uh even the talent that was in it, Crystal Stevens. I love her. She was on um Flavor Love. You know Crystal?
SPEAKER_01Uh what was her flavor of love now? I know you by your flavor of love name. I think it was serious. Yeah, I know serious. Yeah, yeah, I know serious. I love flavor of love. Yeah, I love flavor of love.
SPEAKER_02So she's real cool people. She actually did a lot of work with um Rico Chappelle. Oh, okay. So they were tight. So you know it's a small circle.
SPEAKER_01That's true. I do remember seeing her do that for real.
SPEAKER_02I don't know what she's doing now in the industry, but it's a small circle, full circle moment. And um from there, I did this book called Um Daughters of Men. Like I had what I would do when I was working full-time would work full-time and commute back, do portraits, do photography, whatever I had to do. So I um did photography on the side. This lady approached me about doing a coffee table book called Daughters of Men. And I was like, okay, cool, that'll be cool. And what is that book about? It's about successful African American women and their daughters. I mean, their dads. Oh, okay. So ironically, she got a publishing deal, and they was like, okay, we need to get some celebrities in here. So that ended up us uh going to LA and we were shooting in these celebrity zones with their dads. Lisa Ray. Um Lisa Ray, Tisha Campbell, Tracy Edges. Yeah, like it was on and on. It was unbelievable. And especially since I had just got into shooting, I I couldn't believe it. So the publishing long story, they loved it. They decided to make the book color, and they decided to leave my name off of the cover for photography because they wanted it forwarded by a well-known um writer at the time.
SPEAKER_01So they I that made you feel like I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_02So what I've been known to do is kind of create my own lane. I was like, okay, from this point, I'm gonna do my own thing, and that's how the alter ego was born.
SPEAKER_01Right? That's why I made him mad, y'all. I made him make the uh alter ego too. But we're gonna get it to that later. But I want to know like what really, what, what, was it one certain thing that like inspired you that like like I really want to start photography, do photography. You say you started doing with illustrations and like then got into bordering and shit like that. So it's like now, what made you want to really get behind the camera? What gave you that passion?
SPEAKER_02You know, um, my background, like I mentioned, was illustration, and my style is realism. So I used to use shoot photos to paint from. Oh, okay. And I would like them, do all those things, and make sure they were perfect. And when I went to art school, I really just wanted a security as far as being well versed in different forms of the art because growing up, they would be like, Okay, you can't be an artist, you're gonna be broke with XYZ. So I learned everything, but I was actually I was introduced to photography third grade um because I went to performance art school and my major my portion was um visual art. Okay. So I remember getting a pun, going to the pawn shop, getting a camera, and our first one of our first assignments was to suit shoot our classmates in like this uh cemetery because it was beautiful there. So I was intrigued. I was doing portraits, um then, and I really loved it. I love how instant it was, how I didn't have to paint 20 hours and I was in a draw. And I never really anticipated being a full time job. I always thought I would be an artist, I'm not an artist, of course, but like a painter. Will be using um the photography for reference. Right.
SPEAKER_01So speaking of that, so when the last time you painted something?
SPEAKER_02Man, it's probably been maybe 15, 20 years. But on the flip side, I do it all the time in Photoshop. All right.
SPEAKER_01You know, and illustration is just a different medium. All right, that is true. Because I do see a lot of I do see a lot of artists now on their iPad, drawing away on their iPad. Like not with the normal like paint and paintbrush. Yeah. But that's what's up. Um Hey everybody, it's your boy Zell Swag, the host of Fashion Verdict with Zell Swag, where fashion gets praised, roasted, analyzed, and occasionally dragged through the courtroom. Fashion Verdic with Zell Swag is more than a podcast, it's a culture conversation. Every week we break down celebrity fashion, luxury brands, streetwear, red carpets, trends, pop culture, and the stories behind the style. All in my funny, bold, shady way to keep the audience coming back. With exclusive interviews with personalities that's in fashion, beauty, celebrities, and entertainment and culture. From viral conversations to honest opinions, we're building a platform that speaks directly to the people who love fashion, who loves culture, who loves a little shade and a little read every now and then. And now we are looking to partner with brands, business sponsors that want visibility in front of an audience that loves style, culture, luxury, beauty, and lifestyle content. Whether it's fashion, grooming, skincare, nightlife, tech, lifestyle, or luxury, we would love to collaborate with placements across Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. Your brand can be a part of the conversation, not just another ad. So if you're looking to partner with a growing fashion and culture platform, let's talk. Make sure you follow Fashion Verdic with Zell Swag on everything. And yes, right here, this is where you can contact us. When you first started, um, what was like some of your like struggles like when you got into the photography part? When you got into the photography, after you, after your book published, um, and that happened, you saw your name went on there, and you was like, all right, let me create my own lane. What was some of those struggles doing that?
SPEAKER_02You know, finance was most definitely one not having consistent income. Um, and also what I learned for like after I did the Housewives of Atlanta alter ego thing, um, I was pretty booked. Like, Essence.
SPEAKER_01What season was that again? You remember what season? Or who was on it? I just want to say that so I can ask. I want to say it was 17.
SPEAKER_02I think I want to say it's 17. Okay. And the reason I'm gonna say that because you gotta stay tuned for this summer girls' trip on Bravo. Okay, yeah. Um we did a reunion for that. Okay. And they brought all of the wives, housewives from all across the country, which was real surreal, and they wrapped it around my the show I did.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I remember, I remember uh I just know I yeah, I I know what you're talking about. I seen it.
SPEAKER_02So I think uh it was 17. Um, but yeah, so is that Nene?
SPEAKER_01Nene came back. Nene came back. Yeah, that's the show that everybody waiting to see because we be coming back.
SPEAKER_02So everybody's gonna see that shit. You know, so it's a full circle moment. But did I did I answer your question? Um, what were some of the struggles? Oh yeah, most definitely. After that, um I was good, I was doing pretty good. I've always done good financially. But with artists, the ups and downs, and I was thinking, hey, this is my money. And, you know, it just went away like that. I didn't realize, hey, you need to put a certain amount aside, you need to pay yourself. I'm thinking I just made this, it's my money. So the struggles were um trying to balance that and figure out the tax aspect and the business and how quickly it comes in and how quickly it goes. Um and most definitely learning how to run a business and learning how to um, you know, store even when you don't have the funds, and always trying to stay um above the curb or trying to kind of guess what's next. But most definitely um the finance would be the struggle and just the balance overall.
SPEAKER_01I think I think that's well a lot of just like black men in general, because like with me, I didn't learn that. So I didn't learn how to like manage money or anything like that. I learned how to get it. I was taught how to get money, but I never taught how to keep it and and what to like actually do with it. So like it was I'd been through hella ups and downs with like trying to start businesses and like not knowing the proper things to do, like you know what I'm saying? So so I get it. I wish I wish it like we learned stuff like that at school.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like we learned a lot of bullshit at school. It'd be like, teach me how to keep some money. Right. I wanna learn how to keep money. Um were there any moments like during that time that you just felt like like I don't want to do this shit?
SPEAKER_02Um That's probably one of the that's a good question, but I feel like that's how I knew I was supposed to be doing what I was doing because I've never felt like oh shit, I want to give up or I'm not supposed to be doing this. Now there have been um things that have not been easy for me. Like for instance, um, this past year or so, a couple of years ago, I've been doing some acting and modeling stuff from just social media and brand endorsement deals, and it's not as easy as you know the rejection. Like when I do art, it's like, okay. Love it. Oh my god. Yeah, I'm good. But I'm not in I'm not interested or I'm realizing that anything that is worth it, you gotta put the in the effort. So all the additional auditions and stuff that you may not never hear from, I don't like that. You know, I like to know, oh, I'm gonna have to do it. Oh yeah, you gotta you in.
SPEAKER_01Like you want to walk in, like, oh yeah, I want to know I'm good. I don't want to be like, okay, that's why I don't do, that's why I didn't do like acting like that. Even though it's like a dream of mine since I was a kid, I I did it in high school, did plays and shit. Um, but like getting in as a dog, I don't know if it's just like social anxiety. I just know what why I can go to audition. But I did end up, last year I end up got cast for a show. It's on Peacock. It's called Girls Need Love. But I got casted for the show just because they reached out to me. Like for me, but for me doing that made me be like, I could do this. Oh, I can go. It ain't that bad. Like, I don't know, I'll just be in my head. So like I already, it don't even be about the rejection, it just be about getting me there. I don't care. You can tell me no, please tell me no, hurry up fast so I can just go. Yeah But like I'll be like, get me there is like I'll be like, oh, I can't do it. I just too in my head.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I'm I'm like that completely. And I see a lot of similarities just from our conversation about how you view life and how, you know, um anti-social you can be, and I am. People see us out there at being extroted, and we're really the opposite. Right. So, you know, um I I'm the same way. This past year, I've had the opportunity to do a couple of movies. Uh one that airs this um Sunday, which is Dow Should Not Commit Adultery, with um starting Erica Campbell. And I was casted um as myself as a photographer. Oh, okay. But ironically, they hit me up through my agency, which was it's always wild to me too when you didn't make that connection and they did that on their own. Right. But um, you know, when I'm on set outside of being a photographer and director and saying, hey, you know, I can do this. I realize it's all in my head. And I'm like, okay, I'm only really holding myself back from those situations. So, you know, God has brought me opportunities outside of that, and you know, those things kind of validate me to let me know, hey. Keep going. Right. And some of my clientele, like Missy Elliott and um Legends. Right, and like You have a lot of legends. Right, like bro, you have reasons to keep on going. You got legends beyond that. You know, so when she hit me up, she wanted me to um redirect her visuals for her last um thing. I think it was Drip Demena, a whole bunch of other things. She had shot Drip Demeanor, um, a whole bunch of content and visuals, and she hated it. And her team reached out to me and it was like, hey, we want you to re-shoot Missy's video. And I had done it, especially Missy Elliott. Like, when you look at Missy Elliott, everything back then was like now. Like everything visually is over the top. Still lit to this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you can watch it right now. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Today, and it'd be exactly so when I when you get clients like that or Brandy that's an icon in her world, and they they see your genius or they tell you your genius and they appreciate you, it's kind of like confirmation. Okay, maybe I'm supposed to be doing this. Right.
SPEAKER_01You know, I ain't gonna lie, even like me doing this, this is this is a new space for me. And even just yesterday, I just was like almost just felt in a I I had I'm be very transparent. I I had to break down and cry because I just felt like it just sometimes it just be a lot. And like I and I felt like this is what I should be doing, what I should have been doing. But I also feel like it's just a lot. Like, you know what I'm saying? But I just but you know, I call my couple of my friends, they push me through and stuff like nah nigga, shut up, stop whining. Like, you know what I'm saying? But like you be, you have those moments where you just like second guess your your own craft that you know that God put you on here to do. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I I understand it 100%. I go through that every day. Yes, sir. Um, but I want to get to your, we like you spoke earlier, like your alter ego shoes. Like what got you to like doing that? Because I I feel like that's what people start really, you start really getting known from.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay, so initially what um started me for doing that is top model. Oh, okay. Um, you know, I saw it all the time. I used to watch that religiously because I love seeing, you know, photographers on set, the models and all of that. And then Matthew Jordan Smith. Um, I still admire his work today. He was one of Tyra's photographers before Nigel, and he used to do her stuff black man, and then inspired me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I talk about him, I talk about him today on my on my show. Oh, for real? Yeah, I I talk about I got lists of uh black photographers that just was like the top that really like paved the way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. I would say that most definitely for me. So when I saw it, um, and I think Nigel probably shot a lot of alter egos on that, I was like, that's cool, but what's missing is the interaction between the subject, like Eva touching herself or doing this. Right. So um I was like, let me put my spin on it. And um I took it from there, like really, um I reached out to the people that were in the books that I did, like Lisa Ray, and then I was working with Terrell Mullen, makeup artist, whose cousin, you know, yeah, Eva's cousin. And he was like, okay, D, let's do this. We're gonna use Eva. So she was like Was that your first one? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What? Like, that's like this. I literally got goose was this man talking about something Eva from Top Model was his first, like, come on, that's that's great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So, you know, full circle moments, and then just realizing back then, I felt like a lot of people aren't passionate anymore. Like, all that stuff we were doing, traveling to New York, LA, the stuff in Atlanta, everybody was team players. Nobody charged me. Right. None of the people in it, none of my team, my hair, my makeup, my wardrobe, my wardrobe. Yeah, they were in it just to create. And I feel like that's what's really missing now. You know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I definitely think so now. Everybody, it's not about that. Everybody's looking for a moment, like a viral moment. So they're not, they're not thinking about like the the what takes to get that. Like, you know what I'm saying? They just want to hop in there. Oh, I need this. If you need me here, oh, it's gonna need this. Like, no, we all gotta be here and create together because you never know where this might push them. Like, you know what I'm saying? Just off of just our faith and our just our love for this doing this. Like, people is so crazy. And Atlanta, too. Atlanta, it'd be Atlanta. It'd be your own people.
SPEAKER_02And you know, speaking of that, full circle moment, we shot Brandy Norwood. I shot maybe set 20, 15 years ago when I first met her. I hit her up about my alter ego project before working with her. Um, we shot in the desert outside of LA. So I rented space. So we went out to LA and it's just me. So I'm on the photography budget. I'm looking up locations. I think the website was locations.com or whatever. I rented the space. It was like 4,000, 5,000. A lot of money, especially now back then, like a lot of that's a lot of money for a space. And no profit from it. Like, I'm just I got brandy coming out, and I remember having to get a um generator, all that, because these places are props. Right, they don't have no power.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they don't be having nothing.
SPEAKER_02Right. So I rented that, we did all this. The stylus, um Ashley.
SPEAKER_01Ashley, I worked with him. Sean Thomas. Yes, I worked, we I started, I he went, I used to assist him. That's crazy. We we worked with a few people together.
SPEAKER_02That's crazy. And the thing about it is I met Ashley through my agent at the time, and he was down for the cause.
SPEAKER_01Ashley's such a good, he's so good. He got twin brother, too. Yeah, I know it's crazy.
SPEAKER_02But the thing about it is he's still working the brand as you and it was all from my alter ego shoot.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02So he met her on that, and I remember he had a Mercedes, like a small car. I remember him seeing coming down a dirt road, and it was car, I mean clothes sticking out of the window. Yeah, one thing about action don't play.
SPEAKER_01That's one thing. Like, I remember I used to be in binds. I used to be like, I don't know what to do. I need something. Like, I used to call text action, like, ooh, do you got something? He's like, just pull up to my spot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, those are the days, but you know, I just he just he just texted me the other day after Brandy's Roots performance, like, D blanks production, you killed it. It's just a full circle moment. And then for him to still be doing it, you know, I worked with Tony Braxton. He styled her, you know, Tony. He's always consistent.
SPEAKER_01Uh Eva a little bit, didn't he? Yeah. He worked with Eva. Yeah. He's always consistent, real cool, real easy, chill. So, no drama, no nothing. He's very cool, calm. Yeah. We had did a shoot with uh Sonai Lakhton before. Okay. And that was like, that was, I was like, What was that for? Um we had did it for um, she just needed new photos that she was just doing for press photos, and they actually used one of them, one of the photos for uh I still got them in my phone right now. They used one of the photos for uh a movie that she in. It was I forgot what movie that was. You know who shot that? Who? That movie, you know what movie? No, I shot that shoot. What shoot?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so the shoot with Ashley and Sana. Oh, Ashley, what's it?
SPEAKER_01He styled it, right? Yeah, the one. Look, I can show you pictures, right? I still got these. She had on a tan dress. She had on a No, she had on, she had on uh, it was like it was like a pinkish. Yeah. It was like a pinkish dress. But yeah, she um That was a test shoot I did.
SPEAKER_02I named it Shoot the Kill.
SPEAKER_01You you shot that in LA? What she had on the black, yeah, the black joint with the black and white joint, and she got it. Oh yes. Oh, that was yeah, that was a test shooting. That was four circle. Yeah. See, I'm thinking like, I'm going to first time, like, are you on that set? Yes, I was there. Look at my joke. I got pictures of me and Ashley. And that together.
SPEAKER_02That was that's a that goes full circle back to test you. That's so crazy.
SPEAKER_01And I think I made 20K off of that one image for And that image went everywhere because they use that for movies and everything. They changed the dress green, they changed the dress the uh color green. Let me go back. That is so crazy.
SPEAKER_02I have those files too, if you want to reference them.
SPEAKER_01That shit is so crazy.
SPEAKER_02You started describing, I was like, yeah. And I called Ashley because Ashley, when I did tattoos.
SPEAKER_01And that was that my first time, man. Ashley's first time. No, I think that was maybe our second or third time because of he was this shoot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's my shoot.
SPEAKER_01Ain't that crazy? This is uh this is in 2015, January 16th.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02And it's it's ironic because I mean it's another full circle moment. We didn't really touch spaces on this.
SPEAKER_01Look, it's me. This is me and Ashley right here. That's crazy. That's me and Ashley there at the shoot.
SPEAKER_02One of my other assistants, he was a local intern for me in LA. Yeah. Kim Campbell did the hair. Yep, I remember she was there.
SPEAKER_01I know I didn't like that hairstyle on her on her own uh Sanaa. But I was like, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and the the thing about it, Blair, he was on that set. I met him through Cressette Michelle. He was an interning for me. Whenever I traveled, I would use whoever I could get. I met him through Cressette. And now Blair shoots Beyoncé's stuff. He shoots all of that.
SPEAKER_01Blair, I know Blair. I know Blair. He was on that set. I know Blair. Yeah, he's a photographer. Yeah. He just, yeah, I know Blair. That's so crazy. Everybody just busted out, right? And my little ghetto has ended up on Love and Hip Hop. But everybody else with legends. Now I'm on I'm with the hasbins on Love and Hip Hop. Whatever, man. But yeah, um, but yeah, but back to the ego shoot, like that's where I the first time I um I met you was when you had did the um ultra ego shoot with Mimi. Um and I was, we was just, we we didn't style it or nothing because I already had everything there. We just went, we was just there watching, which it was it was crazy. I was like, wow, it was just so much going on. Like, okay, now she came out with her other look. I was like, it was just nice to be up to watch. Like, you know what I'm saying? Um when the last time you shot one of those?
SPEAKER_02Um what's the last? Ironically, I shot one for a client um last week that I'm excited about because I'm kind of infusing the AI and some of the effects that I was doing.
SPEAKER_01Oh, we're getting into that too. I'm gonna want to touch into that too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. So um I'm trying to think celebrity-wise, Chris, who was the last alter ego I did? Celebrity-wise, who was the last alter ego I did?
SPEAKER_01I think on it, but you know. Um, it's so funny because my next question was gonna be like, if you can bring on back in 2026, like what it would look like now? Like what what difference, how different would it be?
SPEAKER_02Beforehand, I was doing a lot of things. You know, my assistants joke with me all the time, they call me uh the original AI. So really I was taking my background in illustration and Photoshop and shadows and making stuff really believable. So they would be even more convincing now because um I have a plethora of um backgrounds and things I can modify. And that 2026 version would most definitely be video um incorporating that into the final and making it like so much more.
SPEAKER_01So much more.
SPEAKER_02Making a mini movie with it for the most part.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, that would be so lit. Like because I already look, because I'm just now getting into editing, like really editing, like because I do like my own like little transition videos and shit like that. Um, but editing ain't no joke. Not at all. It is not no joke. Not at all. Um yeah, so yeah, it's so funny because I'll be on my photographer, like, because I'll be doing like little pictures and like I have to be thinking like, nigga, you can't do this, chill out. Chill out, let him do it. But um, but yeah, I I um I be trying to. I I get into editing, but I know now. Like, you know what I'm saying? So now that I know some shit, even when it comes up here and we do little things, I do little segments where it be like me and a model, and I'll show you a before and after the model, and they still be both models there, like masking and all that shit. So, but like I be knowing now, so now I'm a little editing literate.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's important. It's important to know, like, that's like a good makeup artist that knows lighting, you know, like on the set, they'll know how to um like do the face where it's gonna highlight and it's gonna diminish their bags and all that stuff. So, you know.
SPEAKER_01He always tells me, like, because everything I be picking, like, I do like random pictures on my page now, like different looks, like where I'm using like AI or I'm using, or he's using like edits, like making my head big or like doing things like that now. So like he always tell me, like, oh, when we take the pictures, you're like, no, not like that, you gotta move, you gotta have a shadow. I'm on the shout out. Oh, this. I'm like, boy. Nah, I get it. I'll be getting it now. I'm getting it. Yeah, it's important. So what are some of your favorite clients that you have worked with? Because you didn't work with so many legends. Like you have a list, a long list of legends.
SPEAKER_02I would say most definitely the most memorable shoots would be Shaka Kun. Ooh. And just the energy she brings. First off, I did her first when I was doing the alter ego, she was a nun. Oh. So her alter ego was a nun versus Shaka Kun. Ooh. Okay. So the artistry of the makeup artist painting Saisha Beacham. She painted the lines and the face and all that. Till then after that, that's another thing from the test shoots that I did with the alter ego, they became my clients. So Shaka hired me for tours. She also hired me for upscale magazine. We were on set at one of my favorite stories. And the light was close to the V-flat, the board, to block the light. And it caught on fire on the set. Wow. Instead of her being like, oh, that's it, I'm a rap. She was like, I'm that motherfucking hot. You know, then I'm burning the set down. So her energy is just amazing. Right. She's easy to work with. And really her office.
SPEAKER_01She's a legend. Yeah. She's not like, and she, you know, Shaka is not a spring chicken. So she has a right to be a little diva. And to so for her to even stick through that, that's so she's a real. She's still real.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. And then I would say, like, when Gabby back when Gabby Douglas won the Olympics, I shot her Essence cover. Wow. They flew me to New York, and it was surreal because they rushed her in. All the paparazzi was there. They gave, she gave like five, ten minutes, and then out the door. So there have been iconic memories that I've had. But for the most part, I try to go in with every shoot, like, okay, this is my first time shooting, and the energy just needs to be amazing. I remember another favorite shoot was when I shot Nicki Minaj as a new artist.
SPEAKER_01I just got goosebumps. You know, I'm the queen. You know, I'm big bar. Big bar fights over I didn't lost relationships, cussing my mama out, my brother out, everybody over Nicki Minaj. So yes, keep on going. Let's talk about the queen.
SPEAKER_02So she was a new artist, and it was for Ebony magazine. They was doing a feature on her. So I learned how to use this camera called the Hasselblad. And I purchased one after that. But I did it because of the sensor and the quality of the photos. So I remember flying into New York, taking helicopter rides, shooting all this content to have her towering over New York City taking her.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, I remember that. Oh my gosh. Adam, please find that. I remember that. That is so crazy. That was lit too. She was like sending. It was, I remember that. I remember that shit.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, you know those moments. It's like a kid in a kid's too.
SPEAKER_01So how do you like? Do you like? I'm a crybaby. So I will look back at these moments, like, because in the moment sometimes you don't, but like I will be at home just crying, just thankful.
SPEAKER_02Man, you know, I honestly, I do so much that I don't remember the stuff unless it's something huge. And then I go back and I'm just like, wow, I did that, I did that, I met this person. So I'm very grateful. It's just surreal. Like when like the post you saw that um about Brandy and our history, I have forgotten all the stuff we've done together until I go archiving it and be like, oh shit, we did an Essence Cover, we did an Ebony cover, I did her um last album project, I did two videos for her. You know, I forget all of those situations. And fortunately, um, all my clientele, we end up working like that. Like Fantasia, she's like my sister. She's probably only the one of the only celebrities I I really cool with, where I'm like, she is my sister. Like when I turned 40th, she came and performed for me. And you know, if she needs me, she calls me. And most of the time I look at it, okay, this is business, I'm gonna do my work and then keep it moving. But um, I love Fantasia.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love her. She was the the first concert I ever went to. Um, I was a sophomore, and my favorite artist at the time was Kanye West. And um, and this is so funny. So um my homegirls, um, she gave me tickets to go. She's like, oh, I want to go. Here, I got two tickets so you can go. So me and my homeboy, we went, and I go. This is my first concert, so I don't know about concerts or anything. So I'm thinking that Kanye just gonna come out. Keisha Cole came out. I was so mad. I just remember being so mad. I'm like, where's Kanye? So he didn't show? No. Kanye's Keisha came out, so which is just a full circle because that's like my sister now. I worked with her, styled her for years, and like that's like one of my best friends now. But then Fantasia came out. And that was like, and Fantasia is the first artist that I, I mean, on the stage that I liked. Like, you know, I was like, what? Fantasia? Like, you know what I'm saying? I was like, because you know, American Idol and shit like that, watching it growing up, but like it was just like, what? So she to me was like the first artist that I knew her songs and everything. Because I really didn't know Keisha as much like that because she was newer, but I knew Fantasia. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, oh, okay, Fantasia, I didn't know. Then Kanye came out and killed the stage. But like, yeah, but yeah, I always just like every time I see Fantasia, I was like, girl, you're the first one.
SPEAKER_02And I worked with Keisha too. She was, yeah, she was my first B. I think she may have been my first B.E.T. gig where she had a reality show. Oh, yeah. And then I remember those pictures being on Jet Magazine and all that. I can't I can't remember who styled it. Probably Joe. Joe. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yep. That's yeah, yep. That's how I that's how I started working with her because me and Joe used to work together. Okay. Yep. That's how I met, that's how I ended up working with actually through Joe.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. And Joe helped out the alter ego project so much, like we were shooting at his warehouse at the time. That's where we shot Shaka Kern.
SPEAKER_01What was it, 310? Destination 310 or something like that.
SPEAKER_02And he and Tiana, I mean Tiara Marie, we shot. That's my cousin. Oh, for real? Yeah, that's my cousin. The crazy thing about her, we shot her alter ego, and she was Michael Jackson. And she was, um, we did read the dead thriller. And that was the day he passed.
SPEAKER_01Oh, wow. It was crazy. That's crazy. That's one of my favorite officers. I'm blaming you, Tierra. It's your movie, it's your fault.
SPEAKER_02That's crazy. It's a small world, man. But the industry is so small.
SPEAKER_01I just was literally on the phone with Tierra yesterday. I'm trying to go live on TikTok. Wow. But yeah, that, yeah, it is very, very small. Like I I would never know that we had that much, right? That much in common. That's that is crazy. Um, but I heard you say something earlier that I wanted to touch on because you said we're just talking about just like being like a black photographer and how you felt like you wasn't getting your just dues. I just you want to touch on that, like just like different, maybe different things you'd have been through that you know if you was a white photographer, or you know what I'm saying, would have been different.
SPEAKER_02You know what? And it's hard. Now I feel like at the age I am, I get the respect finally for the work I put in. But when I first started, I always had to create my lanes. Like I remember all of my covers, including Fantasia, were from test shoots, from the relationships I built with them and them forcing them to do it or doing the shoot on my own and it's blowing the water off of the shoot that the label paid for. Right. Um, so starting off, and it's sad because most of the time, the artists that I was looking up to, well all the time, they were African American. So a lot of times we as a people, we hire black artists and black photographers when we get signed and get the deal, then we use white people or famous white photographers that the label recommends versus using the photographers that rolled it out for them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, literally most of the time they probably still from your creativity anyway. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so uh for like for Atlantic Records, all these other jobs.
SPEAKER_01Been there with them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like all the other jobs, they would hire um white photographers and uh believe it or not, black magazines. You know, essence. Um one thing I could say about Ebony for the most part, it was a point where they would hire black photographers. But I know for a fact there have been opportunities or there have been photographers from other black publications where they're hiring white people instead of looking amongst the talented black people that's there. Right. So what I do is the same thing I do with any opportunity. I kind of build my own way and do my own lane and put it out there. I really don't look for others to kind of validate me or justify me. I put it out on my own platform. Like, you know, a lot of times this day and age, we get mad when we don't get tagged. Right. Put the shit out yourself, you know. You know, make a statement, make it pop where people know it might go viral in your position, don't go on theirs. Yep. And nine times out of ten, people like messing your art anyway up with filters and recoloring it and doing all that. So, you know, let your platform be your station for the most part.
SPEAKER_01Right. So um before we because I'm gonna let you go on when I hold you too long. Yeah, busy, man. It's too many legends after them right now. But uh, I want you to touch on the AI situation because um at first I was scared of AI because I didn't know what it really was. You just think that you watch all these movies and think that something is gonna like it's some type of alien. But I love that shit now. Like I love it like with my pictures. I love turning my pictures into cartoons and putting it on my like I do all types of shit with it now. So it's just like, and I see that you use it a lot and with your like your photography and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I feel like it's a tool. And I feel like it's right on time for the most part because um first off, you need to have an eye and a vision and still be an artist to use it properly. And it's not perfect. So AI has tons of flaws and stuff that you have to know how to fix it. You know how to have to know how to Photoshop and things. Yeah, you have to have patience. Um, but I think it's great because um there it brings up the production value of anything. Videos, whatever. Stuff that you can do your on your own now, and the tools that you can have in order to execute it. There have been pickup scenes for video shoots where you can literally take the person. Beforehand, we had used to have a green screen, but they used to have have to have key marks on the green screen. You can literally shoot something on your iPhone, roaming, move around, and prompt the and create a background and the shadows and everything would be seamless in.
SPEAKER_01That's that's what be crazy because I do it all the time. I'll tell you, I use it all the time. Like I just I was looking at one picture I just posted on my page the other day. I want to show you. And I was like, now why would they put the shadow on, but it's just just like that? Like I would never even thought that, but it just like like this picture. He took this of me. I just was sitting down on something, and I just changed it, but it just like the shadow and everything. I was like, this, it just looked like I was just like, whoa, AI don't play. That's like, oh yeah, I love you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I, you know, I'm just any tool that you use, I think just me working with it, like the whole content piece that I just did with Brandy, uh, 40 minutes of content, all AI.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02But, you know, in the same token, my background as far as an illustration, illustrator, and a photographer gave me what I need to make it different and feel authentic and utilize it in order to get it done. Beforehand, a content video, they would have to hire 3D artists, they would have to spend $500,000 or more to have a team of artists to execute it, editors, all those things. You know, and if you don't have it, then people like, oh, um, people are losing jobs from it. Yeah, I was about to ask you that. But my thing is in those opportunities, they would have never had the job to begin with. Because we could never afford them. You know what I mean? So I think it's a great thing because it's not like if you know you're an independent artist, like the songwriters, if you know you're an independent artist and you have a $5,000, $10,000 budget, what you gonna do? You either not gonna have it, you can't afford a 3D artist. So you uh you level the game up by doing it yourself and using it. Because that opportunity would never have happened anyway, period. Right. On that skill set. Like you may be able to find somebody that's a student, but that's not gonna look like what you want or what you're trying to be. And you can money-wise or whatever, it's just like okay, it just opens up the opportunity more as for creative people and independent people. Right.
SPEAKER_01I feel that I I feel that 100% because I feel like um it's just gonna make it better. Shit. It's just gonna make it better. And it I feel like uh people I feel like now you can like literally go on Instagram and you can see someone that you never you never knew that they had that type of ability. Now you see them making these short films, making these little things, and like now these bigger brands are picking them up. I see see it with all the time, like with I forgot this creators, I can't think of their name, but it's these black creators, and they just got picked up by Adidas because they was they have made some type of commercial using AI and photography and things like that. Now Adidas picked them up like to shoot for them. Like, you know what I'm saying? I feel like I feel like I feel like with AI is just endless opportunity if you know how to use it.
SPEAKER_02Right, exactly. And this how many times have we seen bad AI? Oh, all the time. Yeah, exactly. So that's a talent in itself. It's not about the AI, it's about it being a tool. It's really about the artist behind it that's creating whatever.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, because I'll be cussing Chat GPT out. Yeah. I'll be like, motherfucker, you know what the fuck I said? Like, why are you fucking playing with me? Why you do it like I just told you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I know the feeling. But so what can we, what's next? You done done so much. You done done a lot. So what what do you see your what more do you see yourself doing? Like a museum? We need a day, uh Derrick Blank's museum or something.
SPEAKER_02You know, maybe 20 years down the line, a museum for sure. Um, I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna start doing shorts. I'm gonna get into film as well, continue to expand my brand, my personal brand, um, endorsements with that. And I'm gonna be coming to a screen, you guys, soon on both sides, behind, and as well as directing it too.
SPEAKER_01So no, I like that. I I will, I can't wait to see it. And um, yeah, I'm I'm glad to have you here. I'm glad that you was able to come up here and talk to me because like I said, you're a legend, and like this episode was about talking about uh photography and just like um like just great creatives behind the camera. I just like it's the only one that I know here in Atlanta that's like has really made a big, big, big movement here. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I appreciate you for coming up here for real.
SPEAKER_02Definitely. I appreciate the invite.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah. So you always invited me one time next shoot, we're bringing our cameras down there, and we're gonna be behind scenes watching, see how he uh do this, y'all. How he does that. Um I thank you so much, and um yeah, uh thank you. Okay, y'all, for the final verdict. So, what we learned today, photography ain't just pushing a button. It's vision, it's storytelling, it's timing. And baby, everybody with a camera ain't an artist. Fashion photography helped create fashion culture. Without photographers, having you celebrities wouldn't even have any type of aesthetic. But the real question is, are we evolving, or is filters and AI making everything feel fake? Y'all tell me below until next time. This is another fashion verdict with Zen Swag. Make sure you like, comment, subscribe, all that. And uh, we don't know why I'm doing a hill tumble this game. We're doing a hill tomorrow until we get my hill tomorrow, we're gonna run it.