Tried to Go Pro in League of Legends… Here’s What Happened

Another week with Kai and Cowen. Not only do we explore how we became close over time and talk about traits that strengthen friendships, but Kai shares his past attempt to become a pro League of Legends player.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Alright, episode two of Catch Up with Kai and Cohen. Hey guys, I'm Kai. And this is Cohen. And uh this is our podcast. Um so episode one, we rambled quite a bit. Unfortunately, for our listeners, that's probably gonna be every episode. So strap in. Um today, what should we talk about today? Today we're gonna be talking about friendships, hey? Yeah, I guess so. Friends. How about we talk about start off with me and you?

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

When we first met, do you do you remember when we first met?

SPEAKER_01 0:39

I actually don't. No the uh the my first memory of you was in English class. Because we were we were we were in English class together.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

In grade 10.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

But like I but then I don't know who who introduced you to me. And I don't know how I met you, but I just I just remember you were friends in grade 10.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Do you remember? I do remember. Oh, okay. I think I remember one of the first times we actually met. So one of the one of the first times we met was just at like lockers, but I think that was after we had already like become acquaintances.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

I think the very first time that you and I met was in the lunchroom.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

We had like a big table, yeah, and I was friends with uh with a guy, and he had a bunch of friends that were friends with you. Because I think you all went to the same junior high.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

And I was the I was the odd one. I don't think all of all of you guys went to the same junior high. No, no, no, no, no, no. A lot of you went to the same junior high.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

And then like some of you guys brought in new friends, and I was one of that new friend. Oh, I'm quite certain that that was one of our first meetings.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

And then after that, like I'd see you all the time in lockers.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

I'm like, Do we do we have our lockers close to each other?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

No, because I was in student council, bro. Oh yeah. I had those separate I had my separate lockers with the rest of the student council guys. Yeah, oh my god, yeah. Which is like so funny. As an aside, look looking at me, I don't think anyone would guess that that guy was in student council, that guy was an overachiever in high school.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Wait, what why would you say that though?

SPEAKER_00 2:06

I totally don't fit that bill, like at all. Like You think so? Yeah, uh not at all. Like visually, like how I look, how I act, how I talk to people, you would I don't think many people would guess that I was like a try tried to be very professional at a young age, considering how unprofessional I am now.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Oh. But then So then what's your image of a of a person who looks like someone who was part of Student Council when they're younger?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I I guess uh how I was back then, I was like tucking in shirts until I dug into my pants and stuff like that, you know? Like I would like wake up two hours before school and try to like look as nice as I possibly could. Yeah. Like I was like that deep into it, you know. I was uh min-maxing my like cortisol maxing everything. Yeah, yeah. Probably not cortisol maxing because that shit was stressful as fuck thinking back.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Was it like back then? Like when you're young, it was astronomy.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

You don't you don't you don't really notice it, you're just kind of going through the motions. Like you're doing things because you know you have to do them, you know. Like for example, like I I told myself I have to wake up early before school because I have to look nice before I get to school and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

You know. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, like I I wasn't I would yeah, I was just like, I have to do this, so I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

But was it like like did you enjoy it though back then?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Um I I think I did. I think I enjoyed I enjoyed being up there, if you know what I mean. Like I thought I thought like the prestige. Kind of.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah. Like uh the the not not empty prestige though, the prestige of like being um a a top achiever, that kind of thing, you know?

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Rather than like wanting to be that person, I wanted to uh have the glory of being that person.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Oh okay, I see, I see. Okay, so it was like I mean it sounds like it was fulfilling at that point though, like back then.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Yeah, I guess so.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah, until un I guess until I discovered like my other passions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Until I found out like I actually like stuff.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

And then I started doing those things instead.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

But um, that's my memory of how we met. And I was mentioning a little bit before we were on air, about how we became close in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah, I mean, like we were always friends in grade 10. Like, I've known you for more than half my life. Um, I don't know about you, but I feel like we got closer, like more like in university and onwards. Definitely. Because once again, like you were you were you're at a different school for the most b for the bulk of high school.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

And then you didn't go to the same university as me.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

But then we just kind of chilled because we had the same friends, and we always had the same friend group.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

But then I feel like we got more closer towards the end of university when we're just chilling one-on-one. Because I would say, like, we have a really close friend group, like we've all known each other for more than half our lives. Yeah. Um, we've been to like really big moments of each other's lives, graduations, weddings, and stuff like that. Yeah. But then we always hang out in a group. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like all this, all always the same people, yeah. Always the same events. But then when we chill, it's like it's definitely fun. I I don't take it for granted, at least I hope not. Always a good time. But then for me personally, whenever we're in a group setting, we don't we don't talk about too much stuff. Like, for example, like we don't talk about our fears, we don't talk about what we're anxious about, we don't talk about our failures or career aspirations.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, it was kind of all brain rot. Yeah, like we would go to the friend house, yeah, we would chill, watch TV, have a couple drinks, yeah, talk about nothing of substance, really. Yeah. Mostly about like, oh yeah, party this weekend, what happened at the last party? Yeah, yeah. You come to this, you come to this festival, we're planning this, you come in here, yeah kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

I mean, like, don't get me wrong, I still like hanging out. Yeah, because then like it's just like um sometimes having those conversations I value as well. And it's not like I don't, it's not that I'm saying that I'm not at that closeness of with these friends that I can't talk about these things. Because I definitely can when I hang out with them one-on-one, or maybe even a smaller group, but just like whenever it's a big group, like more than five, that just doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

For me, I remember around that time you and I started hanging out a lot. Um, and it was like those those days on week on weekends, we would always go to like the friend house. A house that you and I actually lived in. Yeah, yeah. Um funnily enough. Uh just as a quick aside, so a couple of our friends, um, including Cohen, uh, got a house together uh in 2020, COVID or 2020, yeah. Yeah, something like that. Sagid COVID, yeah, yeah. Uh four guys, four guys, right? Yeah. Got a pretty pretty sweet deal on a house together, run pretty cool place. Yeah, and then um then eventually Cohen moved out and Kai moved in uh into that house. And then I was there for about for a little while. But yeah, and then I moved out as well. But basically that was like that was kind of like our friend party house. That was like our regular place to hang out. Um but anyways, around the time that you and I started hanging out solo, like just like doing doing stuff, chilling, yeah. I think I realized for me, I want I wanted like I I really enjoyed like you were saying, I really enjoyed hanging out with friends in a group. Yeah, but I also wanted more.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

I I didn't want just hangouts to be like that. I wanted that and something beyond that. So at that time, I remember like I was uh we were talking to each other, like there'd be like days where it'd be like, hey, you going to the going to the house, you want to go there, or you're gonna do something else? And those days be like, and they're probably just gonna watch TV, let's just go to something else.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

So yeah, around around that time I noticed I wanted something different. Not not something different, but I wanted more.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, I I get what you mean. And I wondered if it's like is it because is this like a universal experience in a group setting, or is it is it just our friend group? Because I guess like I can't I don't have I don't have like a comparison just because so I I I I always wondered maybe because in a group setting it's harder to have that conversation, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

I guess someone just has to take that step, and I s maybe sometimes it feels awkward pushing a uh conversation in that direction. Cause I've had like serious talks now just with you, yeah, but I've also had serious talks with you and another friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so I guess it's like for for me, for example. Actually, no, I I I kind of just say whatever the hell in group settings, you know? I don't really hold back that much, but I think I think for a lot of people it's probably kind of uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Also, like, well, sometimes I think surely our other friends have the kinds of conversations you and I have with other people.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Like it would be impossible to live without that.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yeah. Cause like we have that, we have the big friend group. Yeah. But then if we hang out with like three of us, I can still we still talk about like good stuff. Yeah. Um, but I feel like whenever it gets to like five or more, yeah, that gets lost. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

I feel like especially when there's like a TV in in front of us. Oh yeah, 100%. That's just uh things get deep, nothing gets done at that point.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah, yeah. That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Um so let's go into our friend group. How about uh, you know, when we were a bit younger in our early 20s, yeah. What were we like? I would say we had a pretty unique mix of studious, quite studious kids.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

All all of us, pretty much all, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

I would say we were all of us were studious.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Every single one in our friend group is quite studious, um, academically inclined, and like hardworking, but a hell of a lot of partying.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Tons of partying.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Yeah, yeah. Which um, like you know, I I don't I don't regret it. Um I had a blast. Yeah. Like I mentioned in the first episode, like high school I thought was an amazing experience. Um we were studious, but we also had like took the time to have fun. Yeah, I'm in the view that you should just get the most experience that you you you can get at that age and at that setting in your life. Responsibly. Yeah, responsibly, which I think I did. Yeah, and I think our friend group was like a really good balance of that. Like we were everyone was like concerned about their grades whenever. Yeah, like so we worked toward towards it, but at the same time we like to have fun. Yeah, and then that that I thought that balance was really good.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

I feel the same way. Um, yeah, it was uh I guess it it made it easy to be friends with everyone because everyone had such similar drive at that point, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah, yeah. And also a big thing is that I think proximity is also a big thing. We live like pretty close to each other, even now. We literally live like five, ten minutes away from each other. Um, and that probably played a huge, huge role as well. But yeah, I I think um I'm very grateful that we have this friend group that we've grew up with um towards our lives and throughout our lives.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

So you mentioned proximity. Some of our friends have moved away, some of our close friends have moved away. How do you find maintaining relationships with those friends that have moved away?

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Oh yeah, that's um that's a good question. I think well, uh uh it's effort from both sides for sure. If one side puts in the effort, the other side doesn't respond or reciprocate, I think it's really hard to keep that relationship up. So it's a two-way street. That's unfortunate because without proxy like proximity is such a huge thing to maintain a friendship. And then if with that's gone and there's like a lack of effort in both sides, I think a friendship just kind of drifts apart. Um which which which is sad. Um, because I think a friend for a friendship to work, like proximity is number one the biggest thing. Like maybe stages in life, like whether that be age or career. I mean, if you have those two, like even if you don't have like similar interests, like you can still be friends. Um but the proximity thing is a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

For me, I agree um that proximity is a big thing and uh you know communication is probably the most important thing. But interestingly, I've had a ton of friendships that I developed exclusively online. So I started playing online games at a pretty young age, around like 10 years old. And um one of my oldest friends of my entire life is a guy that lives in America in Massachusetts. And I met him when I was 10 and he was 11 online on a video game.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

And we've been friends ever since. Never met him in real life. Yeah. But we've like, we used to talk on Skype together, yeah, and like Discord, like phone calls, stuff like that. So yeah, I I find distance definitely makes things hard. But if you can find uh, you know, if you be if you find someone that's like really like you, you're really good friends, you can totally overcome that distance.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, which which comes down to the um the effort thing. Like it can't be just like one way, it has to be a two-way to to get that relationship going.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Do you have friends from older days that you were really close to that you've lost contact with? Um not due to like any negative bad events, just like drifted apart, time passed on.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Oh yeah. I've I've so many actually.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Which which is sad, because I was like, I feel like I was decently close with with a lot of them back then. But um, I guess it was just I wonder if it was just a difference in values.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Do you think so?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

I mean, I guess I don't know. I literally just said that maybe that doesn't matter too much on um, but yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

So speaking of values, I would say a lot of values are really shaped by people that are around you. You know?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

So in in speaking to that, do you think that since you mentioned values might have changed when people move away? Do you think that's because they move away, they me they get with new friends, and that causes values to change?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Oh, so you're sort of asking if people's values change when they move away. Oh, hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah. I think moving, people can change so much. Like their values, their perspectives. Because the culture is different too, like wherever you move. And I think that's sometimes overlooked. But I think moving away, even to like a like a close city and proximity, can change your perspective and point of view pretty, pretty drastically. And whether or not that affects the friendship in a negative or positive way, I'm not too sure, but just whatever change it is, I think it definitely is there when you do move away. I was talking with my wife, and she finds it so bizarre that we have this friend group that we talk every single day since since like high school, like over the past 15 years.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah. And she doesn't do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Uh I mean she does, but not every day though, not to the degree that we do. And I mean, and and not to the degree that we hang out. Because we hang out like like every week. Yeah. Like since like since high school, like literally every week.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

And then I I thought that was the norm, but apparently that's not the norm.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I don't think it's the norm. Yeah. Like, it's like more than 10 guys.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

And this friend group has been pretty much standing strong, unchanging, since since high school. Like for the majority of the group, you know?

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Um, and I think that's actually pretty rare.

unknown 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

I think people usually have like uh their closest friends. That's like by the time they get to our I mean, I could be talking out of my ass, because I only know like what our experience is. I don't really don't really know too much about other people's experiences, but I think for the most part, people, when they get to our age, um, they have quite a condensed friend group, and like they're the people that they regularly interact with, the friends they regularly interact with, it's a short list of like maybe like three, five people or something like that. So I think us having this like big friend group is uh quite rare. And I must say a big part of that is probably because so many people in our in our friend group have actively made efforts to like keep it going consistently, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yeah, that that and I also think it's because of proximity and once again like the same stage of life. Like we're I think most of us, most if not all, literally, have strived for like a like a professional proposition, and we're all like kind of in that grind period, or as or we were in that grind period, like same mindset, same values, um, at least in a queer career perspective. And that also helped quite a bit. Another thing is that I feel like in university, like I mentioned before in in our first episode, is that because the classes are just so big and Canadian university experience is so different from the American one, especially if you're not living in a dorm, you don't have an opportunity to make too many friends in university. So I feel like we just hang out with by ourselves, like high school friends, and we just keep we just keep on hanging out with ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Actually, yeah, that's a that's a great point because um I remember when you guys went to university, I don't really think you guys introduced very many new friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even after that, after university was over, we didn't really meet new man new people. But then even after that, the only new people that we really met was like people that people in the friend group has as like coworkers, you know? It was never really that never really people that were found in university.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So I think that also also played a role. Um and I'm and I'm really grateful for it. The fact that um we continue to remain this close and we're able to literally watch each other grow up, mature, like get our goal, like achieve our goals as as we strive for. Um hope it stays that way, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

I'm sure it will.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

When you make it, I feel like when you make it this far. Like I've talked a lot, I've talked a lot to you about moving away, and I'm sure I will at some point. And even after I do that, I don't think um my relationship with any of you guys is gonna suffer.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah. Yeah, I mean like a couple of our friends are already moved away, and like we're still like still really close with them.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

They have changed though, some of them.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, those are my those are my thoughts on on our friend group. So uh last last episode, we kind of talked about our backgrounds. I spent a good amount of time talking about like YouTube, the Beyblade, the music. You briefly mentioned about League of Legends.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

I did.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, and then I wanted to ask you, because I I I know nothing about League of Legends, like the game itself, like the mechanics. I don't even know like the game format. Um I wanted to ask you like, how was your career in League of Legends? Like, what what type of opportunities did you have? Any regrets, anything that you wanted to achieve further? Because I know I know bits and pieces, but not really the full story.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

So the full story is a massive story. We're talking like 17 books. I I've lived like three lifetimes chasing this dream, basically.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Um sorry, what what was that dream again?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

So the dream for me was becoming a professional player and one day being a world champion. That was my dream, and that started when I was I think 17 years old. Before that, I wasn't really thinking about it. You know what's funny? I started I I started playing this this game exclusively to make friends.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

I think I remember you telling me that.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Yeah, because as I mentioned uh in the last episode, I once I went to high school, I had no friends. All my friends were at another school.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Once I came to this school, everyone played this game.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

And like the the guy that I was sitting right next to in the very first class of the day, he was talking about this game.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

And I had I had played it a little bit up until that point. Um, but then I started talking to him and found out like everyone played this game. There's like a huge friend group, blah blah blah. Like, okay, this is how I'll make friends. Yeah. So that's how I started playing that game, uh League. And yeah, it l it led to me making some friends, uh, or a lot a good amount of friends in uh in high school. And then once I moved to the other school, this uh some stuff happened, and I basically just really, really focused on playing league, and I got really good at it. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

You mentioned last time, um like you were making money off this in high school.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Like how does that work? So how d so I guess first I'll explain what League of Legends is. So it's it's a video game, a computer game. At the time, this was like uh well, I guess even now it's uh the biggest game in the world, I think. Maybe maybe not, but at the time it was the biggest game in the world and everyone played it. And um I got really good at it, and the way I started making money doing this was something called boosting.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

I remember you telling me that.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah, so boosting is when someone would pay me to play for them to get them to as high a rank as I could. So I was that that's how I was making money, and I was making really good money uh for a really long time. That was not my dream, you know. Boosting wasn't my dream. My ultimate dream was to try to play professionally.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

So while I was uh doing this money thing, I was still trying to focus on getting my name out there uh for pro teams to see, try to get tryouts, um basically try to get noticed, scouted, and played professionally.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah. Um I guess I guess to interject, um, like how how difficult is it or was it to go pro?

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Very difficult. Um because there's only in the professional league, there's a professional league in North America, one in Europe, uh a couple in Asia. The one that I would I was trying to get into was the North American League. And in that league there are ten teams with five players per team. So fifty spots in North America.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Which is quite small.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, yeah. Um but you were up there though, eh?

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Like I was, yeah. I was I was uh very good. Very, very, very good. And unfortunately, I think this is probably common in sports in general. Um it's very hard to get noticed, and it's a lot about being at the right place at the right time, and um having connections, things like that. Uh so very, very difficult to actually break into the scene. And I tried for quite a while. I got a fair amount of tryouts, and ultimately it never worked out. There were some things where I wasn't but there were there were a lot of risks that I ended up not taking. What were the the risks? The risks were so as I uh I mentioned earlier, there's uh uh a league in all of the major regions like North America, Europe, Asia.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

There's also smaller leagues in smaller regions, for example, in Mexico, uh, Latin America, Brazil, Australia, Turkey, all these places have uh their own professional league that's not as big as you know North America and Europe, but but they're still like a good way to get into the scene.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

And um I actually had quite a few offers for to try out for teams for those smaller regions.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Um but I never took those offers. Why not? I didn't take those because for a couple reasons actually. First of all, it was quite scary. Because these weren't like this wasn't a thing where you play I I play in my room and like try out and like practice whatever from the comfort of my home. To play professionally in these leagues, I would have to move to that country.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

And this is something that I was pretty scared to do.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah, that's fair though.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, especially because uh things like moving to Mexico or Brazil at 17, not knowing if it was like super legitimate. Because back then, um this was around 2015, 2015, 2016. So 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

I I didn't know if it was like, what if I say yes, I show up, go to the airport, fly down to Mexico, and get kidnapped? Like, what if this is not real, you know?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah, I mean that's that's pretty valid, valid fear and concern.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah. What that was one of my concerns. Another concern was that I wanted to I wanted to play in North America, you know. I thought my only uh path to getting to where I wanted to be, which was the world championship, I thought I could only do that if I stay here. I thought if I went to somewhere like Australia or Mexico or Brazil, I thought I would just be stuck there playing in like minor leagues with no eyes on me for super super long, and I thought I would never get a chance. And that is one of my regrets.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Not not taking that chance.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yes. My most of my regrets come are are very similar to that. It's not taking the risk, not being brave enough to just try it out.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, that that's something I I I would change. I would go back and take one of those offers. Especially because I had offers to, you know, I I mentioned um being scared to go down to like Mexico or Brazil or Latin America or Turkey, but could have just gone to Australia, you know? Yeah. It's not like that would have been that scary.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Uh so yeah, I wasn't scared to go to a place like Australia, but but the problem with going to Australia was I thought I would just be stuck playing in minor leagues there, never really get noticed by like a big team in North America or Europe or Asia, and I I thought I would be condemning my career to to something smaller than it than I wanted it to be.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

So yeah, that's why I didn't take those offers. But yeah, breaking into the scene is incredibly difficult. Um I'm gonna toot my own horn for a a little bit, but it's it's hard to communicate exactly how difficult it was without doing this. So I was super, super good, like one of the best in North America at the time. Uh quite hardworking, uh played against tons of I this doesn't really mean much because you know, tons of people have done this, but uh played against tons of pros before, played in tournaments before, done super well, uh, but just never was able to get in with the in-crowd.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

You know, like the people that the people that are on teams, the people that are agents, managers, people that are solidly in the scene. I wasn't able to make those kinds of connections until much later, where I did meet uh I think I mentioned I I was mentioning to you at the time that this happened, I had become friends with quite a big team owner in North America.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

And I I was super optimistic at that time.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

I remember, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

I thought this like this is it. This is and and that's when I felt super validated in not not taking those like offers to other places before. That I I was telling myself like this is why I didn't take those offers because this was coming. Um so super felt super happy at that time and went through the trial process and unfortunately didn't make it. Uh maybe I wasn't good enough at that point, maybe they had someone else in mind already.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

But yeah, found it, found it incredibly difficult to break into the professional scene.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Do you think it was like for the most part when you had challenges like being recognized in the field, you think it was more it came really more down to luck?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Some of it is definitely luck. I I don't really I try to think about that as little as I possibly can. I f I feel like the way I approach it is I always feel like I could do more. Um because I'm I believe that I'm capable. So even even now when I look back and I think you know I had like some failures, on the bad days I'll say I got unlucky. And those days are when I'm giving up. But on the on the right days where I'm in the right mindset, I can tell myself that I didn't work hard enough and I can work harder. And I find that personally to be empowering and motivating. You know, even even though I had the the failure, as long as I say that I failed there because of my shortcomings rather than external factors, that that can keep me going.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah. Yeah, I remember um I went to that music festival and then and then you were you're having a tryout and you came all the way to pick me up.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Oh my okay, right. So a little story time, I guess, yeah, was when um you guys, yeah, so around those times, oh wow. I was I was really grinding. Like I I remember, yeah. I I was really going at it, like practicing, like it's it's it really feels like another life, you know. I think I told you before, it feels like I was like another guy at that uh at that stage at that point in life.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

I was I was just so focused and going so hard at going so hard at it. Uh always give giving up other things that I wanted to do. Like I mentioned, like the stuff, all these other projects I'm doing now with like YouTube and like fireflies in my backyard. You know, I I I'm sure like if I had given myself some time to slow down and think and pay attention to other things, I think I would have wanted to do those like YouTube and Fireflies and whatever the volleyball, yeah, even back then. But I was just so focused, trying trying so hard. I was like super convinced that uh this was like my calling.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, I remember I remember you telling me that quite often. Now looking back at it, like that calling you you mentioned here and there, like, do you still stand by it?

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yes and no. I think yes, but I'm not on that path anymore. It's it's just so complicated, I guess. How about you? Do you feel like there's you have a calling right now? Like, are you doing something that you feel like you were born to do?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Well, for me it's a little different because um I I personally never have that gut feeling. Yeah, like even with music, like I say it's a passion. I mean I I think it's a passion, but like I'm not like obsessed, you know what I mean? And for me, in my mind, it's like to achieve it something that great it needs to come with some obsession. The professional position I'm in right now, like that too, I I I I mean, I mean, in a way, I was obsessed because I just put in so much work towards it, right? Like from high school up until now. So I think that's the reason why I was I was able to get where I am today. But I want to say that was my calling. Um so I've actually never had that gut feeling or sensation that oh, this was I was destined to do this. This is this is me, this is my stuff. It's more like oh, I I think this is what I like, so I'll go for it, and then I got decently good at it. That's like kind of my my experience with some of these things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

For me, it was it was uh exactly like you just said, it was like I would wake up every single day, and the first thing I thought about was that trying to go pro, trying to uh win a world championship. It wasn't it it wasn't like I was just like, oh I want to go pro. I remember my goal was specifically to be a world champion. I would tell myself I'm gonna be a world champion someday. And yeah, I gotta say, it's so hard to say I was born to do that when I'm not doing that anymore, you know? Because that's that's kind of like going against uh I'm like criticizing myself so hard by saying that. But I will say at that time, I felt that super strongly, and I was happy I felt that way, I was comfortable I felt that way, and it was like validating, you know. It was like I felt like I was on the right path, and I was like I was I was successful to some extent. Maybe not maybe not completely successful in the end, in the end, but um, you know, while while I was doing it, while I was making money, while I was playing well, uh I felt the whole time like, yeah, this is this what this is my calling. Yeah this is what I was born to do.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

But like I guess that's the thing though, like technically you can't say, Oh, I was born to do this. It's it's almost like you you find that that that passion and then you get you get obsessed with it, and then you get the thought that okay, I was I was destined to do this. Um But I I never had that experience, I don't think. I like to think like it just doesn't come handed to you, like you you gotta you gotta find it.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so the time when um we had a festival coming up, there's this big festival that we go to we used to go to um every single summer.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Um relatively close to us. And um we uh we were all going, but then I got a tryout offer uh that was basically just around the time of um the festival. I had a tryout the very was it the first day or the last day, something like that. I think like I think it was the last day. Something like yeah, something yeah, I think it was the last day. So I had to do a tryout, and then when you guys went there, you guys took up a couple cars and um on the way back you were short a car.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

So then I This is kind of insane for me to do. Yeah, yeah, it is insane. But um I guess I just didn't want you guys to be stranded. Yeah. So I drove um all the way from my our home city to another city to pick up you and one of our friends, and then drive back, zoom in on the highway to uh back to our city. Because I'm pretty sure I had to do another tryout when we got home, right? Because remember you you we got back, you guys came to my house, and then I kicked you out because I was like, I gotta get back to work, guys.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Well, I don't know. I I I I remember um I remember meeting your dog for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

When you had when you had it was it it was a puppy back then.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yep, it was a puppy back then. Yeah. And um, yeah, unfortunately he's he's got a little lump on his chest and now he needs surgery. Damn. Yeah, I just found out uh recently, but he'll be okay. Okay, okay. But yeah, um, yeah, you and one of our friends uh met my my puppy for the first time that day. And then I'm pretty sure I told you guys that I had to that you could like chill here, but I gotta go upstairs because I gotta uh I gotta get back to work.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah, I think that I think that's how it went down.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Yeah, so I was I was super focused back then.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Yeah. Um that's crazy though, like props to you to like driving all the way and then just driving back.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Yeah, I think it was because like I mean a lot went into that. You guys were my friends, I didn't want to leave you stranded, and it was like I initially agreed to come, but then I backed out for this.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

So like I I just I I felt like it was like the right thing to do. And I'm sure you remembered that one the one funny story with me and you sitting in the front and our our friend laying down across the backseat of my car, and said you guys had just gone to a two-day festival.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Had your ears blasted by EDM music.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Meanwhile, I was just chilling at home, you know? Yeah. I was completely sober, uh, kind of, kind of stressed from like all this, uh, all these tryouts, and doing like six hours, five hours of driving or something, and like going back, and I put on some EDM music, you know, make the time go by faster. And our poor friend laying in the back was like, his head's like banging, he's tired, and he asked asked to put on some cake poppies.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yeah, like he was bleeding from the head.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah, and uh to be honest, I wasn't even thinking, you know. I I wasn't thinking that you guys had just had like uh your heads were probably hurting.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

You you just went to like some crazy concerts, yeah, and I was just like, nah.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

I don't know if you remember, because uh it was actually um this is like a long time ago, right? This was probably like nine years ago. Uh-huh. This is before Elenium blew up, and you're and you were playing Elenium because you really liked it. Yeah, but you knew Elenium at that point. No, no, that was my first time with the Lennium. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

I think I played his whole album.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, I forgot which album. It was it was either it was it was one of his remix albums, I think.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yes, it was one of his remix albums.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Yeah, but then um I remember because he was I think he was there. And he was he was at the second stage, like not even main stage.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Uh so you guys didn't even see him?

SPEAKER_01 36:03

No, no, we didn't know who the we didn't know who he was. Wow. He just he was just blasting a before he popped off.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

What after that? Did you start listening to Elenia?

SPEAKER_01 36:11

No, no, not even. So you you didn't even think it was good then? No, I I didn't think it was good. But then like back, I wasn't into like the the music that that much. Yeah, I just thought it was like fun to go to those festivals, but after that I got Ashes Remix. Good album.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yeah, I like I like it. Yeah, I think I played like all of these songs, and they're remixes, so a lot of them are like quite boomy, you know. They go quite intense.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

It's so funny. Our friend was just like bleeding back there because poor years or something.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

I mean, yeah, I wasn't thinking at all. That's definitely my bad. I was just thinking, like, oh, how do I make this car ride just go by faster? Yeah. That's all I was really thinking about.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Poor man, we just wanted some K-pop.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Yeah, I I regret that. I probably should I mean funny moment, but I'm sure he felt bad about it.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah. Sorry, probably. Yeah. Um honestly, I think probably that's it for today. I mean, we've talked a lot of things. Um once again, I think I mean, I I feel like I feel like our structure's not too bad. Like we have a few topics. We you delve into it. Yeah. They're kind of relevant here and there.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Yeah, I mean, we're we're kind of doing this like buck wild, not really knowing what we're doing, you know. But we'll get better at this for sure.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty fun to talk about random things. I like talking about the past. I think it's pretty fun to talk about our memories. Um, but yeah, otherwise, we'll try to make this a weekly thing.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Thanks for listening, guys. I hope you're uh enjoying getting to know us a little bit. And uh hopefully you can get to know us a little bit more in the next episode. So then catch up with Kyle Cohen. There we go. See you later. Thanks.