The Generation of Scrollers: Mental Health, Childhood, and Humanizing Our Parents

In this episode, we talk about social media's brutal pace, its significant toll on mental health, and the rules our parents set that we didn't always understand. We've come to realize that the older we get, the more we see our parents not as authority figures, but as first-timers figuring it out just like us.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Yeah, I'm I'm pretty sure he was like a gamer first. Like I think he was a Fortnite streamer and then started doing music.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

I j I just knew it was from his from his music. Because his music blew up on like TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Yeah, why did it blow up? Did he like have like a like someone like that with dances or some shit?

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Because I feel like that's how that's how songs get viral these days. Like TikTok. It's been it's such a critical tool, like marketing tool. Not just in pop music, but like dance music too. Like literally everything is such a powerful tool for your songs to get. One downside is that I think in the current like climate of entertainment and music, everything's so fast-paced that it only stays relevant for a few weeks. But not always. I think songs can still up beyond the charts for a while. But I definitely feel like with the current age of fast-paced social media like TikTok, Instagram, reels, YouTube Shorts, um, nothing stays relevant for too too long. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

But just curious, I don't know if you know the answer to this, but do you know if when a creator makes a song and it gets used on TikTok, every time it gets used, do they get money?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Uh yeah, they do. Okay. But it's not even it's so minuscule. Because I I I had my song, I don't I can't really say it got it got viral, but I had a song that got used in like, I don't know, like a hundred thousand TikTok videos.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Is that a lot?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

I don't know. I have no idea. Okay. I think that I mean I I was proud of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Like, yeah, I would be doing a hundred thousand, that's a lot. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

I'd be proud of like fucking a hundred. Yeah, like not even like a hundred thousand plays, like a hundred thousand TikTok videos that you've got. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

For that I got like Oh my god, that's like gotta be crazy viewership. That's like insane. 100,000 TikToks are using force music. That's like so many plays.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Like what and that was one song?

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

And that got like, I don't know, like 300 bucks.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Really?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Yeah. Or maybe maybe my dis my distributor kind of took that money away, but that's the money I saw.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Maybe okay, so I just thought about this. Maybe it was not so worth it for you because you put a lot of effort into a full song. What if you're just making like 15-second fucking clips? Well, that's that's why.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Well, that's what a lot of people try to do these days. They try to that's how they try to get big on TikTok. And lots of artists definitely have. And then a lot of them were actually able to sustain their like they are currently sustaining their careers from that.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

So it's a tool, man. That would be so weird though if you're making music exclusively for these like 15, 20 seconds, 10, 15, 20 seconds like bites.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Yeah, I mean, eventually after it gets recognition, then labels reach out, companies reach out, and they have a full team of producers who want to make that f song legit. Oh, yeah. And then they keep on making more like songs based on that brand name of that artist now, and that's how people get low, like they get bigger and bigger.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Yeah. It's not a bad idea.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

I mean, you're contributing to that entire culture of fast-paced scene of entertainment, and then the big big argument against this is that quality of music is n now be goes downhill, essentially. Like, why are we catering to these trends, right? And not expressing that artistic freedom. But that that's obviously because there's a huge business side to not only music but entertainment.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Yeah. So I I totally see your point. But from the perspective of like uh if I was like a small musician, um, just like trying to do what I can to get notice, this would be not so not so bad for me.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

No, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Because I would think like, okay, I'll just shit out like 10 15 second clips of different sounds that are in my head. Yeah, yeah. Because I think I can probably like you know, if I if like music is like my my passion and what I'm doing, yeah, I think I probably got a lot of melodies that I want to put out. But it's like not like full songs, it's just like you know, 15 seconds or something.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

No, for sure, because it's like I mean, kind of I mean not really related. Like people like like you know John's John Summit. Yeah, like I mean like he was a producer, he's been producing for a while. Um and so I'm not saying like he was making like TikTok music, but he was making content on tick on like social media, and that's like that really kind of put him on the radar. I think I mean here is he was already getting traction, but really during COVID when he was pumping out content, that's how he got big. So it's a powerful tool for for marketing, getting getting your name out, and I think unf I mean I can't say unfortunately, but people have to take advantage of that to get what they want, really.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

And maybe in some ways it's just a natural evolution of the ecosystem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you're you're almost getting like very, very early positive feedback on like something in like a like a musical piece in like its infant stage, you know? Yeah. And you know, in some cases that can be valuable because then you will know, like, okay, this is catchy. If I can like if I can build the right stuff around this, this can like really hit. But I guess it could be like pretty bad too, because if you have like something that just doesn't have like a super catchy like that 15 second clip or whatever, but you've got like a beautiful song in your head.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

And like that since since it doesn't get the same reception from that like initial clip, maybe you don't invest into it and you know lose something powerful or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Yeah, I see I see both both sides, like pros and cons. But um I mean I mean you don't use TikTok though, hey?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

You don't even use Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

No, I've never I've never used TikTok. I used Instagram in like the early years of Instagram when it was like like 2011 to like 2013 or something. Basically once high school ended, I like w went off social media, basically. As as like me. Why is that? I don't know. I guess it was because like I was kind of living like a double life, you know, my league life, and then like my public life. What are the what are the differences? The difference is like um after high school I wasn't doing a whole lot in my real life. I was just like doing my league life. Yeah. So it was like I didn't really have anything to post about. Yeah. And and I also felt like uh yeah, like back then I totally felt like a an urgency for like I remember when I used to think like, oh, I gotta post monthly on Instagram. Gotta have like weekly posts.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Like like as a as an average Joe? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

As an average Joe as a tenth grade high schooler, yeah. Like just like for my friends, I would be like, Yeah, I'm gonna make sure I post a selfie this month. Yeah. Cause I used to you remember I used to like fucking post selfies and shit all the time on Instagram and like sometimes even Facebook and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, I was you know, it just kind of goes back to like my thinking back then of like I was doing stuff because I told myself I have to do it. Or it's like obviously I don't have to fucking do that.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

So you you didn't want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

No, okay, not at all. I think I was like a societal pressure to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then eventually I was like, I didn't see a point to it.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Oh, I get it was it was it ever like, you know, some people say con of social media is that it destroys what reality is for a lot of people, right? Like, for example, you see all these influencers, not even influencers, but just other friends. Um they can be taking a vacation, they post a lot of things, a lot of vanity on social media, and they a lot of people have begun to compare themselves and has a huge detriment to their mental health. Like, was that ever a reason for you to stop using social media?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah, totally. That was a hundred percent a part of it that time right after high school. A lot of people went traveling, a lot of people went into university, you know, posting about their experiences. Well, I was at home in my bedroom, um, grinding, you know. Like, and I also had I also had a part-time job um in high school, which became a full-time, you know how like since I didn't go to university right away, I wanted to try out like the sleek thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

And when I told my parents that, they were like, No, yeah, you're not doing that.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

You if you're not going to school, you're gonna work full-time.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

So I right like straight out of high school, I got a retail job working 35 hours a week. Yeah. And like that was my life was going to my retail job, uh like sucking dick, coming home. Yeah, and it was like uh where I worked was half an hour drive away from my home as well. Yeah. So it's like I drive half an hour there, drive half an hour back.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Um, and yeah, it it it like sucked ass. I was just working and coming home, uh practicing league, illoboosting, so like more work.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

But like I didn't have shit to post about, and I was like, it like made me feel self-conscious. It was like I just wanted to I wanted to not play that game anymore. Yeah. This is it's it's not helping me in any way.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

And do you miss it at all now? No. Yeah, I mean, that's a good thing, man. Like, did I waste so much time on my phone? I mean, like, I don't think I ever I used too much of my phone before on like going on Instagram, but ever since like the short form media came out, it gets you so addicted.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

What was the first what was the first instance of this short form media?

SPEAKER_02 8:42

It was um, oh man, it was before TikTok. I forgot the name. Vine! No, actually, yeah, I guess Vine was there too. But I'll I was after Vine, it was just like it was the it was the musically? I think that's what it was, yeah. And then TikTok. And then I got really hooked on to it into it. It almost like became my like source of news. Yeah, dude. Horrible.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

You know, um I uh I'm just realizing this, but you guys, the rest of the people in our friends group, friend group, I think you included. I think I was probably the only one not really including this, but you guys went on a bunch of social media apps. Like uh like I even remember there was that David Dobrik social media app. Yeah, well, what was it called? Like the one where you like post a picture every day or some shit like that.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

I forgot what it was called.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah, but like you guys have like tried like Be Real or something? Yeah, yeah, something like that. And there was like the the one with like uh the like people in the city, your neighbors can like post shit or something.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Wait, that that's be real, I think.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

I'm annoying. Anyways, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

No, no, I don't think that's be real. I think be real was the one that was post a selfie of you every day or post a picture within 24 hours every day.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

I think the other one was like some neighborhood like bullshit or something.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah, I don't know. Anyways, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go on.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Yeah, so you guys have been like constantly like on like the new form of social media, like basically every time it came out.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

So I'm I'm sure you were affected even more by you know the trap, just getting sucked into it.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Yeah, I mean I I definitely see it getting affected to me. I'm like, I mean, I'm like old, you know what I mean? But like even now, I'm it's sometimes like I compare after looking at these things like influencer posting, being like, oh, why can't I do this? Why can't I do that? Of course, not to a degree when I was younger, but I still go on it, that can still happen. Definitely a negative to anyone's mental health. But to be fair, at the same time, I think um the creation of social media also has a lot of benefits as well. Like, for example, keeping touch with friends is such a huge thing. Um news is always a huge thing as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

So it's a market for people to make money in, you know, individuals to make money in.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

That's like a positive in some sense.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah, completely change like the the climate of finding jobs and making jobs. So like that that could be a uh a good side as well, like a pro of social media, but I guess it it all comes down to like everything with moderation, everything with balance. But of course, that's not always the easy answer, especially when you get that dopamine hit and then it gets you hooked on on these like forms of social media.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

So is it the um the influencer aspect of social media that br that you feel like causes negative feelings, or is it even like your peers posting stuff?

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Definitely both, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

I'd say even I would even argue that sometimes, depending on who you are as a person, what peers see that can even affect you more because it's like some people say like, oh, these are just influencers, and that's whatever. But if you see your friends, or not even friends, like acquaintances and peers, and they're maybe having a better moment during that juncture, they could be like, Oh man, I wish I was doing that, and that has a toll on your mental health or like self-esteem. So like it's it's definitely both. So then when you were young, when you were growing up, like I'm talking about like maybe sure, like junior high, high school. Did your parents ever forbid you from using social media? Because the earliest form I remember is MSN, like mess like MSN. Um, but my parents didn't restrict my my freedom on going on that. And then I remember Facebook, Instagram. My parents never ever intervened with those type of stuff. Yeah. Did yours? Yeah, I mean, how much privacy did you have growing up? By my by my parents? Yes. Define privacy as when you're young.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Um, like, okay, I guess I'll say my experience. So my parents didn't really have a control of like a strong grip on like my access to to social media. Um they did have control, but it was more that uh like I had my phone and my phone was mine, and there was like, you know, when I first got when we first got phones, there were no there were no smartphones. Not at all, yeah. Yeah, it was just like like I had my Motorola razor, like a fucking flip-up bullshit. Yeah, and it had like barely like I didn't have access to internet, I had to pay if I wanted to use it. Yeah, yeah, and like you could not connect to Wi-Fi. Yeah. Um phones did not have the capability back then. So it's like yeah, with those, so I was never go able to go on the internet in the first place. And then we had um my sister had her own computer, which was in her room, and she was older, so like, and she bought it with her own money, so it's not like my parents could say anything about that.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

But then the computer that I used was like the family computer.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

So that was not in my room, that was always in the family living room.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Up until uh I think literally until the last year of high school when I bought my own computer, then I could have it in my c in my room. And then like, you know, I I think I had a smart yeah, we had smartphones by then. So I had like internet access and whatever, so they didn't really have much of a control over like my access to social media. Although I will say uh as soon as like I realized my parents were on Facebook, I went and blocked them on Facebook. Oh really? Hey, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Yeah, I guess I guess my experience was similar in that, you know, I I got my first phone in grade six. It was uh that's early. Oh, you think so?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Yeah, I got mine in grade eight. Even I thought that was early. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Mine was a um like uh the LG chocolate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, no internet. Yeah. No date. I mean, I mean, yes, data, but like the It's like cellular.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Like like texting call only. Exactly. No games either.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, you gotta like pay to access like you have to. I'm pretty sure you have to pay to access the app store. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like download like pinball and shit. Yeah. I remember I did that one month. I I like, you know, because it was on my on my parents' card, I spent like two bucks downloading like pinball or something. Yeah, yeah. I was like just praying they wouldn't notice, and they didn't say anything, so I was like, fuck it. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

But anyways, yeah, like the only thing they restricted was I guess the um the the data wifi thing, because of course it was the plan was paid by them. Yeah, and then the next phone I got was an LG Dare in grade eight, like the touch screen one, I think.

SPEAKER_03 14:45

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Um, still the same thing, so in that way restricted. But the only difference is that um, I think in junior high, probably grade seven, grade eight, they bought me the iPod Touch.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

And then that was like that was revolutionary for me. Yeah. Because you could go on internet, you could like the YouTube changed the entire game. I was watching anime on like three fucking part clips.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Dude, even more simple, even simpler than that. My friend got an uh got hit got his iPhone in eighth grade, I think. Yeah. And I still had the Motorola flip razor, whatever the fuck bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

And he had a doodle jump on his phone. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

I'm like, what you you had gaze on your phone? Yeah, yeah. That shit was crazy. Yeah, yeah. So iPod Touch was like a game changer for me. I remember jailbreaking that thing as a kid, which is like another insane like layer of like modification. Um, but they didn't restrict my use of social media, and it was like I was like chatting out people on like Facebook when Facebook was big back then. Um but yeah, like even through high school, I later on got iPhone or whatever. They never really restricted my use of social media. Looking looking back on it, like, I don't know what to think of it. I mean, like, I don't think I don't think that was detrimental to my growth. Maybe it was, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

For me, I I don't I I really don't think we got to experience much of a negative I mean that's true. Actually, that's true. That's true. Obviously it was bad, but like I don't think we had it bad as as bad as like we got lucky. Yeah, I don't think we have it as bad as people ten years younger than us.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Because I think like from multiple accounts, you know, we've got some teacher friends, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Um their brains are melting. Yeah, yeah. You know, they're exactly kids cannot apparently kids cannot focus. Kids are having trouble with like basic arithmetic, you know, long division's too hard for them, stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, you know, long division might be kind of hard.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Yeah, the worst the worst we had was technically like meme YouTube videos and iPhone app games.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Yeah, like like like get on my horse and like bullshit like that, you know, like stupid YouTube songs and like and like flappy, flappy birds and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

That's true. Yeah, so we so it was it was not like uh scientifically perfected.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Yeah, I guess that's true. Because if you look at it now, I feel like mental health of children are probably or let me rephrase this, like the impact that social media has on children's mental health now is definitely a lot probably worse than what it was like when it was for us. Yeah. Um especially with these short-form reels that just destroy your attention span. I mean, if your parents didn't really have an involvement with your use of social media, do you think were they ever at all like you know strict throughout your upbringing?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Well, I mean, they were very strict, not just with me, with my sisters as well. Like, um, like I mentioned, like I had a pretty narrow like career path that they set for me.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

It wasn't just for me, it was for my sisters as well. Like they my parents really I don't I don't remember, I don't know exactly what kind of talks they had with them. I'm I'm sure my parents weren't like pushing them to be engineers or something. But um, but yeah, even even with them, it was like uh so first of all, social media specifically, I think if they had known what they were like getting themselves into, they definitely would have like reined it in. Yeah. Because I look like when I was asking for like a phone, I was just like saying bullshit, like, yo, everyone's got a phone, like everyone in my class has a phone, yeah. Like I'm the only one, and you're always complaining about me me being out late. If I have a phone, you can always contact me so I can like be chilling with my friends at the park and you know where I am, shit like that, you know. Like I didn't understand it really either. And I guess they just like capitulated, got me a phone, and once they had gotten me a phone and like my sister's phones, that's like the the dam has already been broken, and they didn't understand what they were like opening themselves. And like they just got used to us having phones, yeah. Not knowing like what social media is, like the dangers and stuff like that. But I think if they had known, they totally would have restricted that as much as they can. As much as they can. You know, even stuff like having my my personal computer, like uh like that they really were not okay with me having uh my computer in my own room, stuff like that. So yeah, it my parents were always quite quite strict in general, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Even with like maybe like even during high school?

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Yes. Oh yeah. So yeah, so you you don't know this because I did come out like hang out with you guys all the time. Yeah, yeah. Like my parents were not okay with you hang out? Yeah, with me like being outside the house. Yeah, with my sisters being outside the house. Like my sisters and I both, my so my sisters, and as soon as they got to like I think it was like grade eleven or something, or maybe even grade ten, and my parents forced them to get part-time jobs. And it's like grade ten kids, like I don't really think they should be working part-time, to be honest. I think You don't think so? I don't think so. I think they should just be kids. Like go to school, have fun with their friends.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

I think it can teach you the right things, but But I feel like it teaches like a some degree of discipline and responsibility though.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Yeah, but that's like assuming that that's the only way you can get those lessons, which is not true.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

I also think it promotes independence though.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

It does. Yeah. But but that again, I feel like that's in like a situation where you're assuming everything else is like all G. This was more like this was not a situation where my parents were, at least from my perspective, you know, I could be completely wrong. Yeah. But I don't think this was um that the intention of my parents was to build uh good values by having us work to build jobs, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Oh yeah, so their intentions were not to promote independence, not to teach discipline or like some responsibility. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

It was to it was to keep us busy. Okay. So all we had time for was studying and work and come home, no time for friends, no time for parties, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Really, hey?

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Yeah, so when they when they got into my my sisters, I know, I think it was from grade 10 that they had to start working at fucking Derek Queen, both of them. And then once I got to grade 12, I was also forced to start working part-time, and I had to work in a shoe store. Yeah. And then um, yeah, even after that, like once I wanted to take a break from high school, uh, for for a year before university. Like that was my by the way, that was like the agreement that I had set forward with my parents. I was like, I'm just taking a year off, I'm just gonna try this out. Don't go to university.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

They were like, fuck no, you're getting a full-time job. Yeah, you're not fucking around in my house for free for a year, hell no. So then I had to fucking get a lame ass job. And I and of course that wasn't the like, you know, yeah, I don't think that was to teach me anything either. Because because it's not like my parents were gonna just accept me working these kinds of jobs for the rest of my life. Yeah. This was like to punish me so that I thought life was ass and like went to university to try to have a better life.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah, I'll I'll touch on that in a bit. Um yeah, for me, like similarly, my parents were strict about like academics, but only up until junior high. Yeah. Because because I was like, I was I was pretty dumb in junior high. I was I was literally like last in the class. Really? Our school had rankings based marks.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah, because you went to kind of a try hard middle school.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

I did. Yeah. And then I was dead last. Okay. And my parents were like, what the what the hell's going on? Um, but then I don't know what happened. Went to high school. For some reason, I I I was getting good marks. And for me I thought I was studying the same way when I was when I was doing in junior high versus in high school. Anyways, so I got really good grades. Um, so what my my parents actually never pushed me after that. Yeah. So in a in a way they weren't really strict after junior high. So in high school, like even like going out and hanging out for friends, they weren't they weren't strict. That was out until like 12 a.m. to 2 a.m. sometimes 3, 4 a.m. Yeah. And we were going out. So they were actually they weren't actually strict with any of that. If they if I had to put pinpoint on one, it was it was always about by academics. And then they never pushed me to get a job because I was self-sufficient with like my whole YouTube thing. Um so I was very fortunate and privileged with that. But yeah, like definitely that they didn't make me get a job to keep myself busy or anything like that. I guess their priority for me was it was the academics, which I was luckily getting them without them having to push me. Yeah, that was that was my that was my experience. So, what changed for you from junior high to high school? Dude, I have no idea. I was surprised myself. Actually, no, my one of my close friends who I went to junior high. She was surprised too. And she was like, I thought you were dumb. Like, what the what the hell is going on? Because back then in junior high, like like she would be the one like tutoring me, like teaching me concepts. Like she was like, because she was getting way better marks. And then high school came and I'm like getting top marks. Like, I'm not trying to like break.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yeah, yeah, no, I know.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, even I'm like, what the hell's going on? Something clicked, I guess. You don't know what it was? It was just like happened what it was. I mean, definitely, there probably must have been something. I just like were you happier?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Were you enjoying it more?

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Yeah, for sure, 100%. Like, definitely when I was in like middle school, like obviously marks were getting to me. Because, like you said, it was like a try hard middle school, like with an academic school. Yeah. Me being at the bottom of the that is so surprising to me.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Because you know, I know a lot of people from your try-hard middle school. Yeah. I I still would have guessed you would have been the guy at the top.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah, I was surprised too. People were probably surprised. Yeah, no, the teachers probably would be surprised, but um, something worked out.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

So I've been you have no idea what it was. Maybe it was like, you know, maybe you maybe you felt self-conscious. You didn't maybe like did your friends treat you a certain way because of your academics or something, and you didn't want that again?

SPEAKER_02 24:14

I'm wondering if it's because um the environment. You know, like I went to this like academic trying middle middle school, the only focus is academics. Like that's that's your value. Yeah. So maybe I got too pressured by that. Yeah. And then when I went to a school, like our high school was was massive, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 24:29

It's huge, like 3,000 kids a day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

And like huge diverse crowd, academics isn't the only answer. Like, so many opportunities, so many programs. Maybe that subconsciously lifted a burden on my shoulders, and that kind of got my motivation to or like my attitude towards school changed. But I mean, luckily it did, thankfully it did.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

But yeah, dude, you had like an awakening in school, so yeah. That's that's super impressive, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah. Anyways, like the when I mentioned that I want to touch on that one bit, it was like um you said that your parents forced you to get a job, a part-time or no full-time job, technically.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

And in high school, it was part-time. In in high school, if you remember, so far I transferred, we were you and I were in the and all of our friends, we were in the advanced program uh the high school that we went to together. Yeah. Once I transferred, I was no longer I couldn't join that being like an advanced program before uh anymore. Because the advanced program at the first high school was a different it's like kind of hard. It's like well, I'll just say it's like IB. One is IB, one is AP. Yeah. And it was not possible to transfer from IB to AP for some reason. Yeah. So I was in the regular program um at this new high school. And because I was in the regular program, my parents were like, Well, you got more time.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

So if I can go to work now.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

But you're saying that even now you don't understand where they came from for you for them to ask you to do that?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

No, I understand exactly where they came from. Okay. I just think it was bullshit. Oh how so? Well, because I I know like the the reason this like it started getting more and more intense. Like the the the the like I don't know, like uh restrictions on my life started getting more and more intense the better I got at league.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

The restriction? Yes. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

So the more I the deeper I got into league, the more my parents were like started taking stuff away. Like uh why do you think so? Well, uh, because they really wanted me to be on that path of just like go and be an engineer. Yeah. And like don't complicate things, just fucking listen and just go be an engineer, you know?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

And I guess it you know, if I was a weaker boy, I probably would have given up much sooner, but like I I I was too mad for too long to, you know, give up on what I wanted to do. Yeah. So it's like fine, I'll I'll fucking get a job. You know.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Has your I mean like we're 30 now, you know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like my relationship with my parents have changed quite significantly.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Me too.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

From childhood, junior high, high school, university to now, which it which is probably a universal experience by everyone.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Like, how is your experience with that?

SPEAKER_00 27:14

I'm curious to know. So it changed uh a ton. Um it was basically once we umce I like grew up a little, got into I mean it was always like, you know, I I think about this quite often because my relationship with my parents is is really solid now. Yeah. Really, really solid. Like I make an aft active effort to talk with my parents every single day. I mean, I live with my parents right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I talk with them every single day. Um and like I go out of my way, like when I if I hear like my like someone coming home from somewhere, I'll like go up and like greet them and say hi, ask them, like talk to them or whatever. Um I c I love my parents. You know, um we we've had our disagreements, but as we've gotten older, I've helped them understand me and they've helped me understand them. So our relationship's pretty good now, but in the past it was quite quite bad. I mean, even as long as I can remember, to be honest. Like my earliest memories, I d I don't really I don't really remember having like a casual relationship with my dad, like at all.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Like I remember having a casual relationship with my mom where we would like I could like spend a lot of time with her and like talk to her about stuff, like maybe talk to her about school and stuff like that, talk to her about friends. But those convers I don't think I've well may maybe now actually. My dad's asked about like friends. But like before, like he would never ask about my friends, never ask about like what I like or shit like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

It got it it got worse because I started taking a stand. Because I started rebelling. I was like, Yeah, this shit sucks ass. I don't want to keep doing this.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

So I started fighting for myself, and that uh of course means going against what my parents were saying. And that caused our relationship to like go downwards. And I mean it got so bad that at one point we were like on not speaking terms, and then you know, I moved out of the house, started living with friends, yeah. And then some stuff happened and started rebuilding my relationship with my parents, and yeah, eventually moved back in with them and you know worked a lot, talked a lot with them.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

And I'm sure it helped that I decided to go back to university.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Um but yeah, relationship improved a lot over time.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

What do you think like I mean, because I feel like people having difficulties with their parents growing up, it's probably like a very common thing. Yeah. Especially when you're a teenager, you got these like you feel like you know the world, you feel like you know everything. Do you feel like the disagre disagreement you had with your parents back then to the point where you had that conflict where you you're not speaking to them, it was similar to that, or was it a completely different thing?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

That all comes from just like not understanding. It's from like, you know, our parents are from a drastically different like they're just one generation removed, I guess. Like, you know, 20 years or 30 years age difference or whatever. But there is such a massive difference in the way the world was back then. Like when my dad was a kid, I don't even know if like I don't think electronic computers were a thing. You know? Like I don't I don't even know if televisions were a thing back then. And now I'm saying like I want to be- were they a thing?

SPEAKER_02 30:18

I I think I think televisions were. Were computers are a thing? No, computers I know computers became a thing when my my dad was like maybe in his twenties.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, so no computers when my dad was a kid.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

And I'm like saying that I want to make my make a living playing video games on computers.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

You know, he doesn't he has not been looking at the stuff that I've been looking at on the internet for the past like ten years. Yeah. So he has no clue what the fuck I'm talking about. He thinks I'm like some idiot.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah. Like 100%.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

You know, going crazy, talking about some like random bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

So and and at the same time, I don't understand them at that age. You know, I don't understand the sacrifices they've made. That is true, yeah, to get to where we are today. And I'm what I'm thinking of is I have an idea of what I think will make me successful.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

And I want to communicate them that to them. But at the same time, like, you know, part of it is that I'm a kid, they're an adult, and they don't really value my which is like true.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

You know, they don't really value my opinion that much. Or I they value it, but maybe they value it, but they don't put a lot of weight into it, because ultimately in their eyes, I'm a kid.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Um and like I don't understand their situation, they don't understand my situation, and you know, their experience leads them to believe that they're right. My experience makes me want to believe that I'm right, and it's just and I also have like I don't think my parents have like super strong personalities, but I know I have a super strong personality. I can be like super stubborn, especially when I believe in something, and the thing I believe in most is myself. So when you're asking me to take a chance of myself, of course I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

That's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

So that that's what led to like all the problems. Yeah. And then it was after I had grown and matured and really thought about, you know, like we only got one life. My parents are getting older.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

You know, I can concede some things.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Yeah, no, I I I feel I feel pretty similarly, you know, growing up. Definitely clashing of differences and opinions. Yeah, I guess like I was never really, never really had a friend-like relationship with my parents either. Yeah. But I mean, but I still knew that they cared.

unknown 32:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

But never in a way that, oh, like, who's your closest friend? Like, what do you talk about type of thing? But it's like, oh, like you're you're hanging out with this guy. That's good to know. That type of we're in that fashion. So yeah, I feel like I was very stubborn growing up, very obstinate. Um, would rebel a lot, but not not like too many drastic conflicts to a point where I wasn't talking to them right.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

What was that rebelling look like? Like, what were you rebelling at? Were you staying out later than they asked you to?

SPEAKER_02 32:54

No, I they don't even really care about that, to be honest. I I guess if like the biggest thing was academics, like I mentioned in junior high. But I honestly, ever since since I started getting good grades in high school, they honestly didn't care.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

So I guess since my my conflicts really stopped after I started getting good grades, because that was a point of contention. But now growing up though, now looking at back on it now and my relationship with my parents, like uh, yeah, like I like I value my parents quite a lot. One thing I've been thinking about recently is that you know, as a kid, you view your parents almost like um like a superhero. Yes, like they know everything, um, they can figure out everything. You have a warrior and you go to them, right? But then now you look at them and they're like they're so vulnerable, yeah. And that makes me so like I don't know, so so sad in a way.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Um and it makes me wanna be there as much as possible. And it also makes me realize that because they they had me probably around my age.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

And right now I I still feel clueless about my life. Exactly. So like wow, they must have like been through the same thing. They must have been so scared, they must have been so um, they must have been navigating their own challenges, like the challenges I have right now. So then that way I give a lot more respect to what they went through and the challenges went through, especially as an immigrant parent.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, me too. That was what I think really bridged that gap for me in understanding. Finally realizing, like, man, they don't know what the fuck they're doing. Yeah, and like that's that's just that's just life. Yeah, you know, and um maybe they shouldn't have been so believed so strongly in the in like not themselves, even though they didn't know what they were doing, but it's like what more can I really ask? Yeah, you know, it's it's really hard being an immigrant parent, being a new being in a brand new country all by yourself. Like I know you uh I'm sure I'm sure you guys had like some kind of you know community support. We we didn't really ha find that at all anywhere that we went in Canada. We have we were never able to bu find our specific community. So we really just had to like you know try to try to fit in in in the in as c as Canadian people as a whole rather than like our personal uh cultural identities, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yeah, so yeah, it w it's kind of just like us, just my just me, my sisters and my parents. Yeah. And um yeah, once I once I started realizing just how difficult things must have been for them, and like you said, like they were my age when they around the time when they were having kids. And um I I just assumed that they you know had it had it figured out. And I I think all kids do. And then having that assumption is probably what led me to having some resentment in like their actions.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Um, you grow up and you realize like people make mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

It's just it is what it is. It's unlucky. So I'll I say that it's unlucky that uh things happen some of the things happened to me that the way that they did, but uh that that's just unlucky. I don't think that like my parents were like evil people trying to like ruin my life or anything. Yeah, I mean, they they wanted they they were doing what they thought was the way to go. And there and there was just friction because like I got I felt like I could see like this was not the way to go.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

And it was like difficult because they like couldn't understand that or not gonna understand them. But yeah, you're you're definitely right. It's uh growing up when you realize the struggles they had, it really makes you um like for me, like forgive them their actions.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

No, 100%. Um I don't blame them for anything, I would say. Because like you said, they're also figuring it out. They're still figuring it out.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Yeah. So I think I think it's unfair for me in my case, was at least with my parents to blame them for what they imposed upon me.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

You know, there there was a big change in my thinking a couple years back. I think it was when I moved back in with my parents. I would like notice problems with the house.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

And I would like subconsciously think some subconsciously think, like, oh I should tell like mom and dad about this.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Like this problem in the house.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

And I but I never did. I never told them about this. But then like every time I'll see it, I would like to tell myself again, like, oh shit. I forgot to tell them about this. And then one time I realized, why the fuck would I tell them about this? I should just I'm supposed to be fixing this. Yeah. I'm supposed to be the one that's supposed to like fix this problem. I don't gotta I'm fucking like 27, 26 years old, 28 years old. I don't need to tell my parents about this problem. I'm supposed I'm a man now. I need to I need to fix this problem. Yeah. You know, and that I think that was one of the things that made my mindset just shift.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Yeah, that makes sense. Wow. Well damn. We went uh we went on a ramble about a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Dude, I feel like I'm rambling a lot, and I feel like I'm not giving you space to talk, so maybe I should try to do that a little bit more often.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

No, I feel no, no, I I I feel like I got my um got my voice heard good for for this for this episode.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

But me too. Really got into it uh recently.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Yeah. Yeah, that was great. Um going on a trip next week, so I I'm hoping I hear some exciting stories when you get back.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Yeah, Kai is going to Greece.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

It's actually my sister is getting married there, so we're having s she's having a small wedding. It was originally gonna be a much bigger wedding, but yeah. I'm not sure exactly why, but uh, they did scale back on it. I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's a destination wedding. It's hard to get people out.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

But uh I'm super excited. We like a dude, we're like renting villas and shit. Yeah, there's the sound. That's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

It's gonna be awesome. Well, let me know how it is when you come back, and then we'll talk about it on the pod.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

Definitely. This has been catch up with Kyle and Cohen. Thanks for listening.