Catch Up with Kai and Cowen
Two pretty average guys trying to navigate life, one hangout at a time. A chill space to slow down and vent - from mental health to culture - through the eyes of two 30 year old adults. Some weeks we’re deep in our feelings, other weeks we’re talking about whatever’s happening in the world and how it’s messing with our heads. If you’ve ever felt a bit lost, a bit bored, or a bit hopeful all at once, tune in because you’re not the only one.
Catch Up with Kai and Cowen
Pour Decisions: The Most Accepted Drug Nobody Questions
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In the second episode of our drug mini series, we explore the most socially and culturally accepted drug: alcohol. We talk about the health consequences, the bad decisions it leads to, and why it can destroy lives. But we also get into the confidence it gives you in social settings, its role in society, and why enjoying a drink isn't always a bad thing. Finally, we touch on why Gen Z is drinking less.
Welcome Back And Why Alcohol
Welcome back, everyone, to catch up with Kai and Cohen. Here we are again, back with our drug or substances series. Last episode we spoke about or had a pretty you know frank discussion about nicotine, specifically cigarettes, but more so vaping. Today, similar theme, but the focus will be on alcohol. Alcohol, yum, yum, yum. Oh, I guess I kind of gave it away, but Kai, what do you think is the most used drug in the world other than caffeine? But yeah, it's uh I'm guessing it's alcohol, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Our Relationship With Drinking
What kind of experience what kind of relationship do you have with alcohol? For me, I didn't really regularly drink until after 18. 18 is a legal age in Canada. Yeah. Whereas it's 21 in the States, but yeah, 18. I would say it's a mixed relationship. Yeah. I say mixed because it was fun. Yeah. Like it's quite fun. Yeah. Feels good. Is it still the same fun it is now as it was before? Hmm. That's a good question. Because when we were younger, we we did not know our limits, or at least we didn't stop at our limits. But now we now we're much better at them. I th actually, you know, I think it's fun in a similar way, like like a euphoria way. You feel good, you you're you feel more confident or more social, but it's not as fun now just because like the hangovers are much more significant. Yeah, I I feel so much more hungover now than I did when I was younger and drinking. I mean, I I always felt like a little hungover, but I would be able to like get through it pretty easily. But nowadays, it's like even a little bit of beer, and the next day my stomach sucks. Yeah. Yeah. When we're younger, we used to drink. We weren't drinking like every single day. Like whenever there was like a social event. We would never drink outside the context of a social context. Yeah, it would always be like a a birthday party or some event similar to a birthday party, but pretty much always that. Yeah. But nowadays it's more like definitely way less than my early 20s. Yeah. But I I actually do enjoy having a beer with food at times. Yeah, me too. Yeah, it's alcohol shifted for me from being like basically like a party drug into just something like a drink I have with meals nowadays. Yeah, pretty much never really I don't even drink hard liquor anymore. Yeah, it's so fascinating because um when I when I first tried my alcoholic beverage, I was I was young and I tried beer. I I thought that shit was was horrible. Yeah, horrible. But then, you know, now it's like it's so good. Yeah, I I feel the same way, especially with like food and stuff. So when I first started drinking, I drank when I was a little underage. I was in grade 12. I was not 18 yet, but yeah, I tried beer, hated it. I thought it tasted horrible, and so I made the switch to the hard liquor because I had to drink a lot. It also tasted horrible, even worse, but had to drink a lot less to get wasted, and I guess that was like my my goal all the time back then was to when I was drinking was to get wasted, and um yeah, uh relationship's pretty pretty different with alcohol now compared to back
The Real Social Upside
then. So I have a couple things that I like about alcohol, those being it can make things more fun. You need you feel nice and warm and uninhibited when you drink a little bit a little bit, and it can help you be a lot more conversational, which which I think is probably the most probably the biggest positive of alcohol. Helps you be a little bit more brave and talk a little bit more, and that can be really helpful a lot of times. In what way? You know, just uh being able to talk more, being able to express yourself, taking chances, talking to someone that maybe you wouldn't have talked to before, and maybe that leads to something, maybe you make a friend, stuff like that. I think that's why. You know, actually, I'm kind of under selling it. I I think that's uh it's actually a really big thing that alcohol provides. Or am I buying am I buying into it a little too much? I mean, I don't think it's like I don't think it's a reason to drink alcohol, but I I would say it's a good benefit that it makes you more social in uh situations that you would otherwise not be in. I mean, even for myself, I think I'm a pretty social guy, but I feel that alcohol does help a fair amount of time.
Hangovers And Bad Decisions
And so for a couple of things I don't like about alcohol, as I said before, hangovers suck. Hangovers are so terrible for me now. Even just a single beer and my stomach is ruined, I have a headache for the rest of the day. Another con is you gotta be really careful about how much you drink. Why? Why? Because I think drinking can make you do in the same way it makes you a little inhibited. Oh yeah, so yeah, 100% I agree. It can make you do some really stupid shit. Yeah. Make you make some terrible decisions. Has that has that happened to you quite often? Not uh not like the worst decisions ever, but like I've done stuff where I was like, oh, that was stupid. Why did I do that? Like I embarrassed myself or like I embarrassed someone else or I made a mess, stupid shit like that. Never something where I'm like super, super, super down about it, but I could totally see I like in those situations I consider myself lucky. Like good thing I only did a little bit of stupid shit and embarrassed myself a little bit rather than a lot of stupid shit. And you know, things could have gone really, really badly. I mean, I has that ever happened to you? You've uh so I mean definitely. And then that's why I used to get a lot of like anxiety. Anxiety. Yeah. In different ways. Like, for example, like physically, yeah, I also feel pretty bad. Like I get pretty anxious, which is which falls under the whole alcohol withdrawal symptoms anyways. Like you get pretty anxious, but also like like psychologically, uh I think about oh my god, I shouldn't I shouldn't have said bad. This is probably so embarrassing. So there's a lot of shame with it in the day after. Yeah, I feel that too. Uh I had uh a couple months ago, there was it was like the first time in a long time that I got pretty drunk at a party. Yeah, it was not like a bar at some event that one of our friends had. And then like the day after we were hanging out, and one of our friends said that I said something, and I just panicked so hard, like, oh fuck, what did I say? Like, what did I do? I think he explained it, and it was like, no, no big deal. So I was like, okay, thank God. But yeah, I've had that hang anxiety that you're talking about myself quite a few times, and it sucks, man. I get it quite often actually. Yeah. When I when I drink a lot, which is not that often, but whenever I do drink to a point I get a hangover, anxiety is probably one of the worst like experiences I have. Was it like this when you were younger? Hmm, probably not. Yeah, I didn't feel that way. For me, I think when I was younger, a lot of my hangover symptoms were like headache, yeah, nausea, like tummy ache. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But now I'm like like I'm I'm fatigued for like two or three days. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And uh specifically the anxiety from the day after drinking. I used to never get that at all. It was like when I was like a young adult in my early 20s. Probably speaks to me being like a shitty person a little bit. But it would be like the the next day if someone told me, I I would just like you know, not put too much thought into it, just be like, oh yeah, just like stupid kid doing stupid kid shit. But now I I worry way more about, you know, did I say something stupid last night when we were drinking? I don't know exactly when that change happened, but yeah, I feel I feel it totally now. Yeah, compared to not at all in the past. And and these are like pros for you, hey, like pros and cons. Because yes, yeah, yeah, per just per completely personally. Yeah, like I agree for myself too, because I'm I'm pretty timid, I'm pretty introverted, but drinking like when I'm like even I guess like a couple drinks, it'll loosen me up. Yeah. Like I'm not going, I'm not going like rambunctious, I'm not being like obnoxious, but it helps me a little bit more like yeah, like less less anxious. Yeah, like your personality comes out a little bit more. I mean, it's it's quite literally an anxiolytic. What does that mean? Like it it helps cut down your anxiety. Ah, interesting. Um yeah, gives you a bit more confidence to talk to people, make it more enjoyable sometimes as well. But it's like a fine balance because when you drink too much, then you get too disinhibited and then you just make a fool out of yourself. Exactly. And you make horrible decisions. Yeah, and I think it's a fine line. Yeah. Especially when you're drinking, because when you're in the thick of it, you might feel good and you want that good feeling to last. So you're like trying to doing some chemistry, trying to figure out exactly how much you can take. Trying to stay in the pocket, you know. Exactly, trying to stay in the pocket. Yeah. And it's like easy to fuck that up, you know. And you try a little too hard to stay feeling, stay like feeling warm and good and like entertaining, and then you just go over the hedge a little bit, and then you look like a fucking idiot. You know? So a very fine line for uh for alcohol. Another thing that I think is a legitimate con is that it's fucking expensive to drink, man. Oh, so I'm gonna I'll touch on that. Actually, no, I'll touch on that right now. Actually, no, I'll touch on that later. But I I want to talk about the pros and cons more. So I agree with you, the cons, but like for me, the hangovers are bad, but I also get like bad like stomach ache, nausea. I get diarrhea a lot, which makes sense because alcohol when you drink enough alcohol, it acts as a laxative. Yeah, so that
Health Myths And Cancer Risk
makes sense. But from a like a broader lens, I was trying to think are there actual health benefits of alcohol? Because like, unlike nicotine, yeah, alcohol actually is a carcinogen, like it literally causes cancer. I didn't know that. I I mean I remember back in the 2000s or whatever, people would talk about having a wine glass at dinner is like good for you or something. Yeah, so I I actually remember that when I was in university, like having a wine a day might have some cardiovascular benefits. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that got debunked. Like any amount of alcohol I heard now is bad for you. Really? Yeah, it's a water the help benefit. Which is interesting because like when I when I started up earlier, yeah, it did shape it did show that alcohol can have reduced like risk of heart attack and stroke. But I don't know. So there's like I feel like there's like mixed evidence. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're not even getting the why why isn't there stuff to support that like the wine glass a day or whatever? How did that get debunked? I don't not sure the exact study, but I think there's been some studies to show that that at the end of the day, any amount of alcohol isn't really good for your health. So like not at all is good for you? I don't think so. Damn, then what's the point? Well, I mean it's not like people are drinking for the health benefits, eh? Oh, actually, you're right. Yeah. I mean, are there other benefits? Yeah, I I think like the kind of the cultural benefits I I see, as you mentioned, like societal norms. I guess not even norms of how like things are when you go out to a bar. I guess the thing is you drink and have fun. Yeah, it's kind of peer pressure, man. I guess so. Don't you think? Yeah. Like, would you feel weird if we went to hang out with our friends at a bar or you know, patio and um everyone gets a drink and you don't? I'd kind of feel weird. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's me giving it to the peer pressure. But I but I also want to have the drink at that time, you know? Mm-hmm. Like maybe even if I was like alone at that restaurant or bar, I I think I would get a get a drink by myself for the meal. Yeah, and actually I have done that. Like in the airports before getting on a flight, like even if I'm alone, I'll just get a drink. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like going back to the health part first. Yeah, I mean, like I searched it up, they said it could have some cardiovascular health benefits. I'm not sure if that's true, because like from what I'm I'm aware, I think any sip of alcohol is bad for you. And I I also read that it can maybe lower dementia rates, which I don't think is also true. Okay, where does all this where did all this come from then? Google. No, no, no. Where did the initial push for because like if this shit about a wine glass a day at dinner is if this is like not true, then the this was a crazy like operation by big alcohol to get us all drinking. Well, I remember I I learned it that it was it's not true in one of my former college classes when I was in university. So what did you think about it then? I was like, mind blown? No, I was like, facts. That makes sense. Like there's no way this thing can become bigger for you. It sounds sounds unnatural. And the whole dementia thing is I don't think is also true because like chronic alcohol users they they develop dementia is called Korsakov syndrome. Korsakoff syndrome. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that totally makes sense. Like when you're constantly putting your mind into an altered state, I can't imagine that being helpful fighting against dementia. Yeah. And and like not even that, like as you mentioned that this inhibition probably makes probably causes you to make decisions that will be detrimental to your life as well, or that could be, for example, bar fights that could lead you to have getting like a criminal charge if you do something stupid. DUIs also as well, which is a huge thing. Yeah, people get DUIs every single day. Yeah. Yeah. No, not only that, just even small, like you know, bar fight, DUI, that's pretty intense. But even on a smaller scale, once you get used to doing stupid shit, you know, you're making like stupid decisions all the time. You kind of just get used to it, and your brain like accepts uh your stupid ass decisions, and then you become a guy that does stupid things. Like that's you now. You're the you're the stupid guy doing stupid shit. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's dangerous.
Culture, History, And Moderation
It sounds like we hate alcohol. From a broader no, no, I mean I like alcohol drink. Like, I don't hate it. Like in a broader context, it is like pretty, pretty crucial in our everyday life, though, like society, not everyday life. Like there's a big historical component to it. Like if you look at like historical documents, like things like beer has always been such a critical. Yeah, I mean, prohibition in America started wars. Yeah, yeah. But even like even way before that, though, like like literally BC. Yeah, yeah. You know, Jesus turning water into wine. You know what I'm saying? Like, well, you know, so I'll try to push back a little bit on what she just said, like being like part of our societal norms. So I've I kind of view alcohol as like a form of entertainment. Yeah. And maybe back in those days they didn't have a whole lot of entertainment. Actually, no, this this probably falls flat. Never mind. I was gonna say they didn't have like a ton of entertainment, so maybe like alcohol was that for them. But like, no, they had like music and like people dancing and stuff like that. And I'm sure alcohol was just used as like an enhancer to those things, much like we use it nowadays. And and there's also a huge industry now in alcohol. Like um there's like subcultures within alcohol. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like uh big companies, like bars, yeah, breweries, yeah, like craft craft beers, which is also big. Have you gotten into the craft beer scene? No, not at all. Yeah, me neither. Do you know anyone in our age group that's it? Not I do actually. Yeah? Yeah. I kind of feel like it's a dying art because when we were younger in like early 20s, I felt like I did know a couple guys around us that were like interested in craft beers and IPAs or whatever the fuck. Speaking as someone that has like no knowledge of it. But nowadays, I think I know like like two guys. One of them is like one of my brothers-in-law, and then I don't know, some other guy. Yeah, I mean, I know more people who are into wine. Like when I wasn't when I was in Europe too, like I could see wine culture is like crazy. Yeah. I I've been to wineries and it's so it's so cool, I think. Actually, it's so interesting. Drinking and there's so much culture in in wine in the wineries as well. So that's like technically a benefit too, you know what I mean? Because there's so much culture into it. I guess when we say the negatives, it's kind of more like number one, the health negatives and the stupid things you could do when you're going overboard. Yeah. So essentially like being in moderation is the key. Yeah. So uh so for something like this, even if it's like in moderation, technically it's harmful for you, just because it has like none of the no like no benefits whatsoever. Like health, health, yeah, yeah. No health benefits whatsoever. I guess it's just one of those things where you bite the bullet for the the fun times. Uh you know, because everyone knows like it's not really doing anything good for us. It's like actively harm. As you said, it's a carcinogen. Yeah. So it's actively health-wise, yeah. Yeah, it's like it's trying to give you cancer. Yeah. But and the cancer is not even just like one cancer, it's like so many cancers, like stomach cancer, colon cancer, esophageal cancer, oral cancer, which is downright horrible. But I guess I guess the fact of the matter is to get there, a drink a day probably isn't gonna do it. You know, it would have to be some pretty heavy drinking to see those negative effects, I think. No, I wouldn't say so, because everyone's as everyone's risk for cancer is different. Right. So damn. So we're really just like it's Russian roulette out here with alcohol for like everyone. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. I mean well, that's the same argument for like smoking cigarettes though. Some people smoke all their lives and then we'll get cancer. Yeah. But didn't we identify that there was some there could be some health benefits to like a very small amount of nicotine? No, I'm just talking about cancerous. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, um, yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah. Yeah, that that's that sure is strange though.
Why Drinking Feels So Expensive
But anyways, yeah, like I was talking I was talking in Europe, like wine is cheaper than water. Dude, it's so cheap. I was gonna say, so uh earlier I said alcohol is fucking expensive. Yeah. And like over here, you know, going to a bar, your your bill's gonna be huge. But if you even if you go to like a liquor store, it's uh you know, 20 bottles $20, $30 for like a bottle of vodka, whatever. 15, 20, 25, 30, like a big range for bottles of wine. I think the cheapest probably you can probably get is like 15 bucks or something. I remember when I was in France, I just walked into a grocery store and I walked out with a bottle of Chardonnay, it was pretty good for two pounds or two euros. Yeah, I remember you telling me that. Yeah, two euros, that's insane. And it was a it was a bottle like this big, yeah. Like it wasn't a small bottle, yeah. Yeah, and it tasted pretty good too. And if you tried to get like the same thing in like a liquor store here, probably like twenty bucks. Yeah. In in a restaurant, probably twenty bucks for a glass, yeah. Which is like fucking insane. So the overall people in Europe collectively probably drink more than Americans hate. I think so. I think they also because I think they also have a lower drinking age in a bunch of places. Am I right here or am I wrong? I have no idea. I I feel like I I feel like I'm right. Well, from what from my knowledge, 18 is probably one of the younger age limits. Dude, I feel like I've heard about places in Europe where people are getting beers at like 16 or something. Or like maybe even younger. I don't know. But maybe these are just like stories I heard from friends rather than true. Yeah, I'm not sure. So then by that logic, people in Europe drink more than North America collectively. Maybe. Do they have higher risks or higher incidences of cancer associated with alcohol? Oh, it would be so hard to track specifically associated with alcohol because there are just so many differences between the North American lifestyle and the European lifestyle. For example, our diets are so, so, so different. You know, even if we're eating like similar foods, like I was talking about in the Greek Greek episode, like the quality of that food feels quite different. Yeah, in my opinion. I think. I mean, I I I I just try to look it up, but apparently there is like a higher burden of alcohol-related cancers in Europe than North America. Can you look up the drinking age? Sure. Would Europe have like a blanket drinking age? Or I'm assuming these countries would actually have their own drinking ages, right? Even in Canada, probably provincially, the age age limits are different. Yeah, but we're like we're not like in a union, like a North American Union, you know. We don't have like similar regularity. Oh, the minimum is 18. All across Europe. Actually, some allow younger teens to purchase beer and and wine. There's a tiered system in like 16, 18. Wow. Like Belgium, Denmark, and Germany. Yeah, yeah. 16 as a minimum age for purchasing beverages, but only containing less than 1.2% of distilled alcohol. 1.2%. Which is beer and wine. Distilled alcohol. Okay. Whereas spirits you need to be 18. Right. Yeah, I was gonna bring up Germany as or Belgium as an example, because I feel like I've heard of like a 16-year-old getting a beer in Belgium or Germany. That's that's kind of gangster. But but I don't know. But it because technically in North America though, I guess it might be different when when I was going to high school, though, high school kids were drinking. Yeah, yeah, they were. Yeah. Okay, but if those 16-year-olds are getting beers at restaurants in Belgium, maybe they're drinking at 14 minutes. Damn, yeah. But yeah, because the the Europe thing too, it's so interesting how it's different from culture uh country and country, because Korea also has a huge drinking culture, like the whole soju thing. I think their Koreans probably drink or one of the ones who drink the most in the world. I think I read that. There they actually have high rates of stomach cancer. Yeah. But it's not only due to alcohol, it's also things to do with like kimchi, like this bacteria called H. pylori. But anyways. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, but alcohol. So I could there's that trend that we see there too. Yeah, it's on the surface, it's like totally believable. I'm sure there's of course there's like nuance head diets, stuff like that. That's like a big thing. Yeah. And even like more than diets, just like the place you live in, the air quality, you know, that can fuck you up in ways you never really realize. Yeah, it makes sense because you know, Korea totally has a culture of a lot of drinking, Japan too.
Europe, Korea, And Drinking Norms
So so we like like us, we're 30. Yeah, we still drink. Yeah, we don't we're not daily drinkers. Yeah, like we definitely don't have a problem with drinking. But have you heard that Gen Zs are not drinking alcohol? Vaguely, but I haven't really looked into it. Yeah, so apparently 50% of uh US adults age 18 to 34 are drinking alcohol, which is which has decreased from a value a number of seventy two percent two decades ago. Yeah. So it's going down. I I think I'm I think I know exactly what. And even in in terms of like Canada as well, there has been a decline in alcohol sales. Are you surprised? Yeah. I'm surprised too. Yeah. So why what do you think is going down? I mean, I think I really strongly think the reason is weed. That's a good one. Yeah. I think weed. Oh, actually actually, yeah. I don't know. Well, I guess no. How legal is weed in America? Well, not all states, but a lot of states are uh have legalized cannabis. So yeah, would you say like most states have legalized cannabis? I don't know about most, but I because you remember even before weed was legal in Canada, I remember weed was like kinda legal in America if you had like a medical card or whatever. And I heard a lot about those medical cards back in the day. And this was before weed was legal in Canada. Yeah, but that's not recreational use, though. Yeah, but I think like everyone was doing it for recreational use. To get a medical card for marijuana? Yeah, like I legitimately heard about this back when I was uh I don't know, like 10 years ago or something. But you think weed's the reason why kids like. Yes, yeah. So I think I think kids have given up on alcohol and switched over to weed. And I think it's because it's cheaper. It's super, super available. Actually, I think the biggest reason is just it's cheaper. Like you buy like a thing of weed and it lasts like fucking forever, man. Like uh like a vape cartridge? Yeah, yeah. Like you buy a vape cartridge, that shit will last you like months compared to you spend the same amount like what is it, like 20-30 bucks for a vape cartridge and then 20-30 bucks for a two six or a 750 milliliter vodka or something like that. It's like the same price, but that 750 milliliter of vodka that might last you like a couple nights of drinking. Also, you get no hangover. Yeah, you get no hangover to well, I mean available. Oh, really? Yeah, available. We'll talk about it in the weed episode. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I think uh the big reason that kids are not drinking as much anymore is because they found a new vice that basically uh accomplishes very similar things. I mean, it like you know, you don't get the experience of going to the bar and you know, having meals with your friends. But you know what, even even like ignoring like the weed thing, I think it really just comes down to the cost. I think drinking is just so expensive nowadays. Yeah, I mean, not even that. I mean, yeah, nowadays, yeah, plus the economy is is is not good, right? I mean, so they they can't afford to purchase like a fucking $13 drink at a bar, right? Yeah, exactly. Let alone go to a bar. Yeah, I mean, like what a f dude, this shit makes me so mad. I know it, but how how how are these people charging like 15-30 bucks for a glass of beer, man? This shit is like ridiculous. But yeah, I think that's probably the main reason. Yeah, I asked my wife this. She she was saying she she raised some good points too that Gen Z are more health aware. That's great to hear. Yeah, like for number one, like a variety of reasons. Number one, like we grew up without social media being predominant in our lives. Yeah. But now Gen Zs have. So from the get-go, they have all this health information to know that alcohol is horrible for you. Yeah. So when they're more health literate, so they are making an active choice not to drink toxins, essentially. Yeah. That could have like horrible health benefits. Um, and I think that's huge, like a huge thing as well. And overall, like more of a paradigm shift that emphasizes like mental health awareness, yeah, because alcohol has detrimental impacts on our mental health. And I think that's something that Gen Z has been fostering more of it as well. That's awesome to hear, man. Like, I I actually think that's so great. I I I wish we were part of that movement. You know, that would have been something to be proud of. But yeah, it's good to hear that the next generation, it's not like our generation is like dying or anything, but the one below us, people 10 years younger than us or whatever, five years younger than us, yeah, they've at least made this uh they have this disconnect from alcohol,
Gen Z Drinking Less
which is great. And I want to ask you, what if would you be okay giving up alcohol if everyone around you gave up alcohol? 100%. Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah. So because I drink it for mainly for social purposes. Me too. Yeah. So if there's no if they take away the social aspect of drinking, there's no point in drinking. There's only one other thing that I use drinking for aside from the social reason, and that is for flights. Really? Yes. Uh because I have a terrible time traveling, like on flights and stuff. So on international flights, they offer you free alcohol. I make good use of that. And uh even before getting on a flight, I'll usually like have a meal and then have a drink with that. And it's just, you know, I always have such a hard time like either falling asleep on flights or not having a terrible time on flights in general. So I use that to try to make it easier. And to be honest, sometimes it works, sometimes it didn't, it doesn't. But don't you have to go to the washroom? No, I can hold it in. Really? Yeah, yeah. I don't do it because even if I drink have one beverage, yeah, like alcoholic beverage on a flight, I have to go to the washroom. And I don't I don't really want to get out. Yeah, I I never use the I never use uh the washroom in the airplane, but uh I I can hold it for that long. I've got I've got a really strong bladder from sharing like because like when we yeah, like I I've I've lived in a situation where I had to like share one bathroom with two sisters. So yeah. But but going back to what my wife was saying, she was she's saying that Gen Zs nowadays are like like going on runs instead. Wow. They're going they're going to church. Wow. Apparently, this thing's called like soft girl era or whatever, where there's a huge emphasis on self-care, like health, mental health, and everything. That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. I mean, go them. I support it completely. Yeah, I guess the only downside is though, like it further, I guess, worsens the economy then. Like they're not spending money. Um, they're not going in the bars, like the alcohol industry is suffering quite a bit, loss of it, like this, and then this decrease in employment and everything. Well, I mean, that money is gonna go somewhere. You know, it's it's not like they're gonna hoard that money, they're gonna put that towards other stuff, and you know, that's fine. What do you mean they're not spending the money though? Yeah, but well, they're not spending money on alcohol. But do you think it's because they just don't have money? Yeah, I do think it's because a lot of them don't have the money. Yeah. But even like the ones that, you know, do have money, and like your your wife was saying, if they're like following the super healthy lifestyle of going on runs, not destroying their bodies, some of them probably do have money. And you know, they're not they're choosing not to spend that money on alcohol and stuff. And I think that's fine. They're probably still gonna spend that money on something, yeah. Like if they're like into like running and health and stuff, maybe they're spending that money into fitness gear or like other hobbies and stuff, which I think is probably no, which I think is definitely a better use of their money. Yeah. Yeah. And like if the alcohol industry end up ends up dying because of it, then like so what? Really? I don't know. I mean it is sad because I I think like the whole like like the I think the wine scene is super cool, craft beer scene is super cool, like mixology, I think, is super cool. I would I would want those to still persist. Well, those uh those aren't really gonna get affected by people not spending money at bars, I don't think. I think it'll just become more of like a like a hobby thing, you know? Like I guess, yeah, because that's like that that's a hobby. Yeah. Like people have like their backyard gardens and stuff. I guess it I guess this is more like when you're going out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, if that culture dies, we're just like going back to like moonshine era, you know, people making their own shit in their backyards, and that that's not so bad. Maybe you get some real delicious stuff, you know. Damn. Yeah, but then but then the bad thing though is for sure, using cannabis is not good though. Yes, yes. And when we'll and we'll talk about this because I have a whole spiel about cannabis, but very strong feelings. I don't I I I don't think, at least in the Canadian context, replacing alcohol. Actually, I don't know. I mean, like Do you think it's better to replace it? Oh, this is a tough question. Like, I think alcohol, I think they're both bad. Yeah. But I guess I haven't seen it. Well, here's the thing though, I forgot to mention earlier on.
Withdrawal, Addiction, And Real Danger
Like, it's not just the cancer risk that I think it's bad about alcohol. Like, so alcohol is the most commonly used drug in the world, right? Yeah, but it like the the long-term consequences are so severe. Like, I'm not sure if you like heard about alcohol withdrawals. Yeah. Like true withdrawals. I'm not talking about hangovers. Yeah, like the withdrawals that kill you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like they they literally kill people. Yeah, yeah. I've I've read about like, you know, when people when people have like such, such bad, like they're so addicted to alcohol, it's like basically a part of their like system. Yeah. And then try stopping cold turkey will literally kill them. Yeah, because if you drink it like chronically, your literally your receptors are get wonky, right? Because there's always alcohol in your system. Um, so as the way to combat that, your body makes more of these type of specific type of receptors to make the overall balance. So when you quit turkey, like your your body is whole, like it's already wonky. Yeah. And then it leads to withdrawals. In the beginning, it can be like, oh, you know, anxious. You get sweaty, you get like a fast heart rate, but then you get seizures, which kills you. You get seizures from withdrawals? Yeah, yeah. Damn. And then it gets worse that you get what this this thing called delirium tremens. What is that? You start to see things, uh, hallucinate. Oh, okay. And then yeah, and your sympathetic nervous system goes so wonky that it eventually kills you. Wow. So it's a it's a medical emergency. Yeah, yeah. I've I've heard about that. Never, never like had it, not had it, but never experienced like anyone else in my life going through this. So like seen it in front of me. But yeah, I've read about that, and like that's so scary. And we're like everyone is basically actively accepting this like pretty bad thing for you. Yeah, and and I've seen it literally destroy people's lives. Like I one of our friends' friend was drinking so much alcohol, he had to be admitted to the hospital. Oh, I think I yeah, like lots of problems with like like leg problems, stuff like that. Leg problems, like foot problems, same guy or different problems? Probably different guy. Okay, but this guy, yeah, like his relationships were uh uh affected, yeah, so like trapped. And like how could they not be? Yeah, because when you're when you're drinking all the time, you really are just a like you're a different person. Yeah, yeah, because drinking becomes your identity then, and you when you when you take that away, not only you get the physical like negative effects, but now it's just has a huge psychological toll on you. Yeah. And then yeah, like it destroys your relationships, destroys your social life. And it'd be hard. So then that enters you into a vicious cycle to now depend on I call alcohol because that's the only thing you know. Exactly. And that was like when you were on it, things weren't so bad. Yeah, you know, and that's especially at the thing about dictionary at the start, things were probably great. Yeah. And yeah, and now now you're just digging this deeper hole. Yeah. And so it's hard to get yourself out of it. Yeah. For alcohol specifically. I don't have a yeah, like I said, I don't have a ton of experience with this because I never really abused alcohol like that. Or maybe I did, but not like super hard for a super long time. It was like very small stages in my life, you know, just being as a dumb kid. Yeah, definitely dangerous. Um and out of out of the substances that I've tried or e or like are common among people, I would say alcohol probably is it the most dangerous? It's it's up there. Yeah. Yeah, definitely one of the most because it's so easily accessible. It's very addictive. Yeah. So yeah, and and you can die from withdrawal. And I learned this in my pharmacology class. Apparently, like like way back then, they were trying to make it into a vape form, like an aerosolized form of alcohol. Whoa. Could you imagine how terrible that would be alcohol in your lungs? That would have destroyed the world. Yeah, that would have killed some people right off the bat. Yeah. And um, it probably would have been a huge hit, to be honest. Like, oh yeah. I mean, that's probably the reason why they they didn't like sanction that. Yeah, that would have been when was when was this? Was this a long time ago? Oh, I don't know. I mean, it it must have happened not too long ago, because to aerosolize a substance, I feel like it's a pretty recent phenomenon. Is it? Is it? I don't know, is it not? Actually, I think you're right. With like vapes and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude, this that makes me think of like I'm sure you've heard of like uh, you know, back in the day the American government, like MK Ultra shit like that. Kind of makes me MK Ultra? Yeah. Have you ever heard of that? No. Oh, apparently, so this is like a confirmed thing, dude. I'm I'm coming with I'm coming to the pro podcast with too many conspiracies. But this is apparently this is a confirmed one where it was like the American government was like testing a bunch of substances, like weed, LSD, opioids, stuff like that. And um I wonder if this like aerosol, aerosolized alcohol was part of that experiment. Yeah, really. Oh, I mean, it says here, I think it was it first came up around 2004. Oh, that was very recent. Even up until 2009, there was maybe like talks. Damn. That's super, super recent. So yeah, it probably was this this probably was off the backbone of like vapes becoming a bit a big thing. Oh, yeah. Makes sense, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. Wow, so so glad we did not go that direction. Dude, that would have been horrible. Dude, I mean, maybe it would have just like tasted really bad. Oh, but the fucking flavorings. Damn. Yeah. Yeah, that might be the big problem. The flavorings of alcohol? No, no, no, just bring it back to like nicotine. Because if if this was like uh an aerosolized thing too, like aerosolized alcohol, vape alcohol, probably would taste like shit, but like they would add a bunch of flavors to it to make it like really yummy, really fruity and stuff, and then that would just get people happy. Because alcohol, alcohol, I guess, technically does taste horrible. Yeah, it tastes like shit. Yeah, tastes terrible. Damn. Yeah. Aside from like beer, I guess, but for the most part, it tastes terrible.
Cocktails, Craft Beer, And Home Bars
What about cocktails? Are you like cocktails? Like mixed drinks? Yeah. Yeah, of course. I mean, I no, I guess mixed drinks are different in cocktails. Can you give me an example of a cocktail? I mean, there's well, I don't know. Like, I don't know what a true cocktail is. Yeah, me neither. Like, does it are we talking like vodka martini shaken, not stirred? Is that a cocktail? I'm sure I think that is a cocktail. Does that count? But like I've had that and that ain't very good. Like a pina colada? Oh, yeah, like pina colada is great. Yeah, like six on the beach. Yeah, like we oh yeah, like we went to we went to your bachelor party. Mango tango. Yeah, mango tango Maui Wowie. Yeah, like that stuff, that's uh that's great, I guess. Yeah. But I'm not really am I even drinking alcohol at that point? Alcohol is like the I'm I know it's the main ingredient, but it's like super masked, you know? Yeah. So I'm kind of getting fucked up without thinking about it in that sentence. But yeah, I could uh I could be totally fine without this stuff. Without without uh without alcohol. Yeah, I think that's like uh like a it's a very big social thing for me. So if no one's drinking, I'm chilling. Yeah, me neither. But do you think you can have fun without alcohol? Totally. Yeah. Yeah, because like just imagine from age zero to 17 or whatever, I had a great time in life, never had a sip of alcohol. That's true, you know? Yeah. And and even beyond that, all the days, you know, I have way more days of the year where I'm completely sober than I do where I'm having a drink. And I think those days where I'm completely sober are pretty fucking awesome. So then do you think people who say, Oh, let's go out and let's not drink, but then they say, Oh, I can't have fun unless I drink. Do you think those people have a problem? Yeah. Yeah, I think those people do have a problem. And it might not be an alcohol problem. It might be like a yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. It might be like, you know, they they like lack confidence or like have a personal problem, something like that. Yeah. Might not always be alcohol, but I think they do have a problem. Yeah. Oh, that's a good point, actually. Like maybe they're like self-esteem. Exactly. Yeah. Um, lack of skills, like interpersonal skills. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will say I have used alcohol for that specific reason before. Oh, me too. Yeah. Like feeling uncomfortable in a situation of wanting to be a more talkative person and like, you know, being able to deal with the situation better. I have used alcohol in that's in in that circumstance before. And I would guess that the people that do say what you just said, like, oh, I can't have fun without a drink. I think most of them probably do have an issue unrelated to alcohol. And then the alcohol is kind of just like bridging that gap for them. But I think a couple people probably are like, you know, they have an addiction and that's the problem. Yeah, because yeah, I mean, I've used it for more like networking to meet new people, yeah, talk about stuff. But would you cause you you said you'd like the extra tertiary culture of alcohol in which there's like mixology, yeah, and craft beers and stuff like that. Would you ever get into something like that yourself? I mean, maybe because I remember I was in Japan. Okay. I was in Kyoto with some of my friends. We went to this bar. Okay. They make custom drinks for you with a menu. Like you get to choose like the the vibe, the overall taste and flavor. You get to choose uh like a liquor, like like a base liquor, and then what type of like flavor flavor pairing you want to have. I thought that was super cool. Were you were you satisfied with the drink or were you satisfied with the experience? Both. Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah. Did your drink come out like did it match your what you were hoping for? It did. That was super cool. Did you try the other guy's drinks and see if like it was like a bunch of difference? Yeah. And it was all different? Yeah. Wow, okay. Very different. Yeah. That is super cool then. Super cool, yeah. Wow. So w would you get into it? Because that seems pretty different. Say we we move into a world where alcohol is fucking dead. Yeah. And you you it's not a thing anymore where you get it at restaurants, or maybe you do, but it's like too expensive for people to do it normally. So the culture has largely shifted to like home bars. Home bars, yeah. Which become like an exologist. I even I even bought a set actually like a couple years ago. I never opened it. You just have a set like down that you have it open. Yeah. You should open it. See, check it out. Yeah, you might really like it. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I'm gonna shape that thing around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've never really gotten into like I remember there was a this is getting so off topic. Do you remember the on Facebook? There's like that dude that makes all these that does the mixology thing. He's always wearing like a Hawaiian shirt. Oh my god, what was the guy's name? He had like a Jamaican accent or something like that. On Facebook? Yeah, on Facebook. Usually like Facebook videos. I don't think so. Maybe it was YouTube, but I think it was Facebook. If I remember, I'll I'll uh I'll bring it up. But yeah, I remember this one guy that everyone used to watch him back then. And he would uh yeah, do like these mixology videos and he would like have like two girls with him that would help him or something like that. Oh really? Yeah, but anyways, but never mind I'll get into it. I I tried getting into craft beer, yeah, but I couldn't really. It tasted kind of I couldn't appreciate the differences in in taste. Yeah, me too. But the mixology thing I thought was pretty cool. Even with wine, I can't really appreciate wine. Really? Yeah. I I feel like I can appreciate wine, but I can't really appreciate it. I think it's super cool. The taste-wise, I still I just I just can't appreciate it. Yeah, I think I can I think I can make that distinction in wine, but it's much harder for me with beer. Like much, much harder. Oh, I think mine's the opposite. Yeah, interesting. Like overall, I still can't appreciate just generally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I had to choose beer is probably the most, I can appreciate. I think I'm more wine myself. Yeah.
Cannabis Next And Final Thoughts
We mentioned some some hints about talking about cannabis, but we're not gonna we're not gonna talk about it here. Okay, next episode. That's gonna be our last episode. I've uh I have a lot to say. Yeah, me too. But dude, that might end up being a double episode, to be honest. Because I feel like I have so much to say about cannabis as well. Me too. Yeah. So that's gonna be a feisty one. So tune in, everyone, for that finale of our of our drug mini series, and and let us know if you've if you enjoy enjoy the structure of this a little bit more. We're open to do actually, we won't be to make all of our future episodes like this. Yeah, we're gonna keep doing this until we think of something else, I guess. So if you're listening and you have an idea for a topic that you think you would like us to talk about, please let us know. It would help a lot. And then I also just want to preface that these conversations aren't meant to be like like uh we're not sure. We're not experts at all. We we are literally just we're saying literally too much now, but we are just two guys just in in a room talking shit, not experts on anything, don't take what we say too seriously. And yeah, that's about it. Yeah, so tune in to next episode where we talk about weed. Thank you guys so much for watching. This has been catch up with kindone. I'm gonna get a beer. Peace.