Cannabis: The Drug Canada Got Too Comfortable With

Canada legalized cannabis and overnight it became part of everyday life. But this came with a cost. In the third episode of our drug mini series, Kai gets vulnerable and shares his personal experience with cannabis addiction. We break down the consequences of cannabis use and question whether legalization in Canada was the right call.

Transcript

Welcome And Cannabis In Canada

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello, uh welcome back to episode three of our mini-series on drugs. This is catch up with Kai and Cohen. And today we're kicking it off by talking about weed or cannabis. Weed's become a pretty big part of our lives in Canada since it became do you remember when it became legalized?

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Yeah. It was 2018. I remember because I I invested in weed stocks.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Oh yeah, you guys did invest in weed stocks. And when it came, that's when we did the when we tried the fucking pills for the first time. Yeah, stocks didn't do well. No, it was horrible. Oh shit. Was it like all stocks did bad, or was it the one you specifically invested in?

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I think it was all weed stocks. I think there was just so much hype built around it and like built up around it. But it it did not meet the expectations, basically.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah, I

First High Stories And Bad Bongs

SPEAKER_01 0:52

remember that. Okay, but anyways, with weed, I guess I'll start off with my personal experience with weed. So I started smoking weed, or I guess I smoked for the first time when I was in grade 12, which made me realize I I did a lot of things for the first time when I got to grade 12. When I like switched schools, made like these new friends. I might I I I guess I met some a rambunctious goof of people, and that got me into doing all these these things. But yeah, the first time I did it was in grade 12, and it was it was so crazy. It was so weed was not legal back then, it was still illegal. And my friends at the time had this gigantic water bong, like water bong, yeah, yeah, like a huge bong that you put with water put water in it and stuff. I never had one of my own, but that's how I that was like my first experience with weed. Later on, I would discover that's like a terrible way to try weed just because it's so difficult. But, anyways, it was on a water bong, and this water bong, they would they wouldn't like keep it in a house or something, they would like bury it in a ravine, and then we and then we would go out to this ravine, dig up this gigantic bong, and uh try to smoke weed. And I did that like 10 times before finally getting high. Like I would hit this bong 10 separate instances, not feel anything, just you know, cough up a storm. Me while my friends were getting high, and yeah, it wasn't working for me until one night I finally got high.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Wait, wait, like what do you mean? Like so you f the first time you did it, you didn't get high.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah, I I think maybe I was like doing it wrong. Because they told me it was just like suck as long and as hard as you can until you can't do it anymore, and then get off the bong and like breathe it out or whatever. And every time I did that, I would just start coughing like crazy.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

I I would assume like that's that's that's when you know it works though, right? When you cough a lot.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

I I didn't feel anything, uh completely sober every single time. And then we'd like be in sitting in a car and like listening to music, and I'd be like, Are you guys fucking with me? Yeah, because I didn't get it. I thought I thought at that point I thought people were just like, This is like some stupid shit. People are making it up, acting like they're getting high. Cause I had done it like a bunch of times with them up till that point, and I felt absolutely nothing. But anyways, one time, one night it actually worked. I guess I like smoked it properly and I got so high. Yeah. It was so crazy, crazy high. Was it fun? Dude, uh, the only thing I remember was like I couldn't see anything. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Actually, that's a that's a common um experience that I heard. Really? Yeah. For like people that get high for the first time? Not for the first time, if you if you're really high.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Oh, okay. Yeah. I couldn't I I don't think I was like blind, but it was also like a very dark night, and we were smoking in a car. Uh driver was sober, just to make it clear. And yeah, everything was just like super dark. My heart my heart was like pounding out of my chest. And I told my friends, I was like, guys, I think I'm high, but I think I'm like too fucking high. Is this what is what's supposed to happen?

SPEAKER_02 3:54

It was not fun.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

No, not fun. Okay. I I thought I was dying. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think there was five of us in this car, and one of my friends had a fantastic idea to get me iced coffee. Uh, supposedly that helps with the high or something. That was like the the play back then when we were in high school. If someone gets too high, yeah, get them iced coffee for some reason. And I thought that was a great idea. Yeah. Because I was like, iced coffee right now sounds fucking amazing. Yeah. So like, give me two. Did it work? Well, so they got me two iced coffees and then I chugged them. I don't know if it worked. Maybe it like sobered me up a little bit. I remember we went to one of my friends' house after that, and I was just like on the couch, just becoming one with the couch. Yeah. Um that must have been fun. Yeah, at that point, once I wasn't like once my chest wasn't pounding, it felt like a like a hammer and chisel. Yeah. Was like someone was like taking it to the to the middle of my chest, just like tuck, tuck, tuck, tuck. And but that was my heartbeat. But yeah, that was my first time getting high.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Did you feel like you were getting a heart attack?

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah, I don't. I thought I wasn't, I thought I was dying, but I knew I wasn't dying. Yeah. Because I knew at that point, like, can't really die from weed. Oh, you you already knew. Yeah, yeah. I already knew that you can't die from it. So I was like calm in that sense. I wasn't like, oh fuck, I'm dying. Yeah. I was just like, oh, this is freaky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

We were paranoid. Because that's that can happen, right? Like, oh my god, what's what's happening? Like, is someone following me?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yeah, I think I think because I wasn't like I actually wasn't seeing things. Like maybe my eyes were closed. Like it was like fully black? Yeah, like full blacked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Maybe your eyes was closed. Yeah, my eyes were closed. Because you know how when you like when you get high, like the eyelids get pretty heavy. Maybe maybe that's what happened.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah, like fully closed. Yeah. Totally possible. I mean, I I don't know why my one of my dumbass friends wouldn't tell me like to open my eyes if they were closed. But it was it wasn't dark night. Not everyone in the car. So you're the only one that was high? No, no. The driver wasn't high, yeah, but I'm pretty sure everyone else in the car was high. But, anyways, yeah, that that night. Yeah, got my coffee and then like yeah, got high for the first time. And then for some reason, since that day, since like getting high for the first time properly, I haven't had a problem getting high again. So it's as in like it it's always been a good time. Yeah, I guess. I mean, no, I can't say it's always been a good time, but more that I've like haven't had this problem of like hitting the bong. I mean, I don't I don't hit a bong anyways, like this is the this was a friend's bong in high school, and then ever since then I think I've hit a bong like once in my life. But I but I at least figured out how to get high properly doing that. Yeah, and that was my first time getting high. What about you? Do you have any experience with weeds?

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Yeah, I remember my first time. I think that was a good experience. Yeah. My eyelids got heavy.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

D do you do did you get high like the very first time you smoked weed? You had no problem getting high?

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Do you do you smoke a joint? No, it was it was pipe.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Oh it was it was when it was legal.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Damn, that's classy. Oh, you waited until it was oh okay. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

But it was good through a pipe.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Okay. It hurt.

unknown 6:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

My lungs, yeah. Oh yeah, it hurt my lungs too. And then yeah, it actually hurt a lot. Like when you like, you know how you're supposed to like breathe, like inhale or whatever, like the the second inhale. Like that hurt a lot. Yeah. And then everything became funny. Yeah. That's what I that's what I remember. Yeah. And then I got super tired. Like I just like slept. Right away. Yeah. Wow. So I guess it wasn't really that enjoyable. Like I just I just got super like tired and my eyes got super heavy and it just napped.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, the same for me, actually. I don't think it was super enjoyable because I'm remembering now once we got to my friend's house and I was like laying on the couch, all my friends left. Oh really? Yeah, they like went on an adventure to like do something, and I'm just like in my in one of my friends' basement all by myself, just laying on a couch. Damn. So yeah, I think I just passed out and then woke up the next day and yeah, back to normal life.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Yeah, it was like, but it wasn't it wasn't really like addictive. It didn't feel addictive.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Oh yeah. And not at all. Yeah, not at all. At the time it was I mean, when I first smoked weed, I I guess since I did it before you, it was still illegal. So it wasn't so easy to get get weed back then.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Actually, I remember getting a little bit anxious. Really? Yeah. Like I don't know. Like I don't know why.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

It was it was a bit like anxiety. What were you? Do you remember what you were anxious about? Was it like about getting caught or something like that? Or you were like worried about your health?

SPEAKER_02 8:23

I feel like it was maybe the more the physical symptoms. Like my heart was racing. Oh, okay. Like you know when you're anxious, you're like kind of like on edge.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what I felt. Did you know you couldn't die at that point? Or were Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

You were just I wasn't I wasn't scared about dying. It was just like my like my heart was racing. Uh and I felt like the body I was anxious.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

So it was like you didn't like the response you had to weed.

Addiction Questions And Time Warping

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah. Oh, I got a couple of pros and cons. Well, first of all, I don't think uh since we touched on it, I don't know if weed is very addictive. Uh it probably isn't. Like, what do you mean? Like um, in the same sense, like chemically addictive. You know how nicotine is chemical chemically addictive or other drugs how are chemically addictive? Well, are drugs chemically addictive? Yeah. That's the thing, right? Yeah. It's not just like a the euphoria from it is what's addictive. It's the chemicals itself in the drug that's causes addiction.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

I I I think it's everything. Like yeah, like a whole, like a it's pretty complex, I think.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Do you do you know if cannabis specifically has those chemically addictive components? I think so. Oh, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

I guess it's different for every person, but I I think cannabis in itself is can't be addicting. Like maybe like on average is probably less addictive than nicotine, but I would still say cannabis is addicting.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, I would say much less addictive than something like nicotine for sure. But uh, anyways, to the pros and cons, I got a couple written down. Yeah. The first one is a pro and a con. And it is that weed makes time fly like nothing else. Time just fucking zooms by when you're when you're high. Really? Yeah, I I realized at some point weed is like a time machine, man. It's if really yeah, if you want to go forward in time, just blast through space, reach a certain hour. Well, not even reach a certain hour, just like kill time. I think I think that's like that's what weed does. Mine's the exact opposite. Really?

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Time goes so slow. Like, for example, like, oh, I I'm high on weed. Yeah, I brush my teeth, yeah, and I I have electric toothbrush. Yeah, and it shows me the time of how how long I'm brushing my teeth. Yeah. I think I've like when I do it, I've like, oh, I must must have brushed my teeth for like 10 minutes. I look down, it says that one minute and an unhappy face.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yeah, maybe you're maybe you're not uh maybe you're like self-conscious about how because you know when you're high, you kind of notice like every fucking because I brush my teeth when I'm when I've when I've been high as well. It's like you really notice every single brush, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

No, I I mean I I get what you mean. I get the physical sensations that are kind of like amplified. Yeah. But no, I'm not not with like brushing my teeth. It just time just goes a bit slower too. Like for example, like when I'm high and I'm on my phone, I'm like, oh, I I think I've been on my phone for an hour, but it's only been like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Really? Yeah, dude. For me, it's the exact exact opposite. Like uh if I get high and then I go, I'm watching a movie or a show or I'm on my computer, I'll be like, what the fuck? Two hours just pass by uh like that. Really? Like instantly, yeah, yeah, yeah. But what are you doing though? Just watching a movie or playing a game or interesting. Usually multiple things at once. Like I'll have like a movie or show on one screen and then like something else, like I'm reading something else or working on something or playing something else on the other screen. Yeah, yeah. And then time just just fucking flies by.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Yeah, especially especially on weekends, if I do it at nighttime, I I end up staying up like weed doesn't make me super sleepy anymore, to be honest. Really? Yeah, it just it just fucking kills time for me. Like if I uh if I if I had smoked till late at night and then not gone to bed, I could be up until like 4 a.m. and like not realize it's gotten to 4 a.m.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Yeah, yeah. Wow. I I don't like it specifically because it just makes me sleep. Like there's I'm like, oh well, there's no point. This is not even fun. I'm like so tired after. Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

I I I wish it was like that for me. Cause I think uh for a period in my life I actually did smoke weed thinking it was like to try to help me sleep.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Of which I found that I I looked into it because I used to think that too. Um I was like, oh, maybe weed helps you sleep. Yeah. I think I read that it doesn't necessarily help, but then it's not necessarily bad for you either. The only bad thing I read was that in the morning it can make you groggy.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah. But then if you but then it's like fine for your REM sleep or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Oh, I think I think there's some impact on REM sleep. Yeah. But yeah, not too sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Because I would be surprised if you could have like totally good sleep while you're high.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

That's what I yeah, I'm thinking too. Right?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

It doesn't really make sense because like your blood, or not blood, your brain is like full of chemicals at that point. Yeah. You know, it's uh because weed does weed make your brain more active or less active?

SPEAKER_02 13:13

More active because it's uh because it's psychoactive.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Yeah. Okay, so then your brain's like firing on all cylinders and you're trying to sleep. How do you get good sleep like that? I guess yeah, they're actually no, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

I don't think you I don't think you would get good sleep. Yeah, right. Like maybe you'll maybe you'll be asleep, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it might help you fall asleep faster, but the actual sleep itself, it probably it's probably probably not good.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah, yeah. I mean my my experience sleeping on weed is like pretty similar to sleeping on melatonin, which is I did not get great sleep. And then like the morning after I would be groggy for quite a while too.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Well, melatonin is a little different, I think. It's not supposed to strengthen the sleep cycle itself, but rather to correct the uh sleep cycle timing, like when you're jet lagged or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah. Yeah, I've definitely abused melatonin as well in my lifetime. But I have a theory. What if it's you know how you know we generate melatonin in our own bodies, it's naturally occurring. My theory is when you smoke weed, it the same thing happens. Your body just gets overloaded with melatonin. Thoughts? I don't think so. Oh fuck. Probably not melatonin. Okay, maybe not melatonin.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Our body has natural like cannabinoids like receptors.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Really? Yeah. Wait, so we can produce that? Not or it's just made for the receptors are made for receptors.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Receptors are made for receiving like THC, I think. Protein or whatever. I think so. Yeah. Don't quote me on this point.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

But yeah, for okay, so that was uh I feel like it makes time fly like nothing else, but you have the opposite experience. But I can see that being a con, though, right? Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I see that as a con for sure because you know, you allegedly you smoke weed to have some fun, enjoy their day. But in my experience, the the day just goes away and I didn't get to enjoy it. Or maybe in the moment I did, but like once I'm at the end of the day, I'm like, fuck, I didn't really get to do all the stuff that I wanted to do today. Um, yeah, so I feel like it makes time fly really, really fast. Yeah. Another, I guess I'm on pros right now, but yeah, a pro that I have written down is sometimes makes stuff more fun. Yeah. But that's only when you use it pretty sparingly, in my opinion. Like, for example, if you you know going to movies, sometimes, sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, it's kind of fun being high at the movies, you know, depending on the movie, depending on the vibe and stuff, or like you know, like fucking like mini golf or shit like that. Sometimes it can be fun while sometimes it can be fun doing that while you're high, but again, sparingly, you know, because if if you're like high every time you do that, again, time just flies, and I feel like you don't really get to experience the activity. Another thing anecdotally that I have felt that I feel is uh pro for weed is I feel like there are genuine medical applications for weed, not just CBD, but THC as well, or at least like the weed that's like mixed or whatever. I've I've anecdotally found it to be a decent answer to pain. So I find for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, for myself. What kind of pain?

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Like it so I've mentioned a couple times I play volleyball, but aside from that, I also am fairly active in not really running, but I go on the elliptical a lot. And uh, but I used to run and that caused me like hip pain, some knee pain, and also volleyball occasionally will cause me like ankle and foot pain. And uh I found sometimes when it's like really, really noticeable, noticeable pain, getting high will distract me from the pain. I don't know how much it's actually doing to well I've read that it like you know it's good for inflammation, stuff like that. I don't know exactly how much that's helping, but at least it helps distract from the pain. So in that sense, I've found it to be you know, maybe applicable as a pain reliever. Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Just personally. I mean, yeah. I've I've seen that too, that it's helpful for pain, especially like cancer patients, or maybe like people with multiple sclerosis, or maybe people who have like poor appetite. I I've I've seen that weed can be helpful, but but I don't know. I'm not doubting that. Yeah. And if for sure it probably is helpful for some people, yeah. But that's probably not the case for like everyone though. Yeah, I believe that. Because I looked into it and like sure there's some research that shows that it is helpful, but it's not like like amazing. Like if it was that amazing, then it would have been recommended to every single person and they would have thought that it just works magically.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yeah. So basically the alternatives are better for managing like similar symptoms?

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Like pain and nap. Yeah. I would like to think they would try something else first rather than going straight to like weed. That'd be kind of odd, I think. Yeah. Rather than trying like, oh, like medication or different strategies, medication as in like prescription medication, that's not cannabis, rather than jumping straight to like, oh, like smoking a joint or like using CBD oil.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah. Yeah. How about as a strictly as a response to inflammation? Because I've heard that as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Yeah, I I've heard that too. Yeah. But I once again I think it's it's not something you go right away. Like maybe if if things didn't work out, then that's something you consider as like a backup plan, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. So personally I felt some well, maybe anecdotally. Again, it's like when you're high, how reliable of a source can you really be on this? Yeah, like I felt that pain relief while I'm high. So don't quote me on this. Don't use weed to if you're in pain, go see a doctor. But, anyways, next pro I have is when you're so bored with absolutely nothing at all to do. I guess this ties into like the time flying. But for me personally, there were times where I was like so so bored with nothing to do, and it can make you feel less bored then in those situations. Isn't that the same as time to find it? Time flying, yeah, pretty much. I guess just another way to say that. Okay, then the next one, the last pro that I have, is that it's pretty damn cheap nowadays, to be honest. Legal weed, not very expensive. Yeah, yeah, especially compared to how it was before. How much is it? Oh I think you can get like okay. From what I remember, you can get a pack of joints like multi-pack or something, and those are pretty cheap. I think probably less than 10 bucks. And then the vape is a vape like cartridge, is around 20, 30 bucks, something like that. And those last fucking forever. Like months, or maybe not months, but weeks and weeks and weeks. I mean, if you're like being responsible, it should last you for months. And in that situation, you know, 20 bucks for a couple months, that's super cheap.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, like way cheaper than like alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, way cheaper than pretty much anything else. Cigarettes, yeah, cheaper than cigarettes because you smoke way less. So it lasts you way longer, way cheaper than alcohol. Yeah, I mean, it's just so much cheaper than everything else nowadays. Yeah. A little too cheap, if you ask me. Yeah, and that's pretty much all I have for the pros.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Do you think it helps you relax? Like you specifically? Because that's what that's what people say, you know, like, oh, I'm I'm stressed out, I I smoke a little and it makes me relax at night.

When Weed Turns Into Dependence

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Okay, I guess uh I I didn't fully dive into this, but for me personally, so I don't smoke weed anymore. If I do, it's quite rare because I had a pretty bad relationship with weed. So a couple of years ago, I got dependent on weed. I was going through a rough time, and yeah, it was pretty shit. And because of that time, like it was it was so bad that I was like it. This is pretty embarrassing to admit, but I would be like waking up getting high and then being high like all day. And I just had like so much going on in my head, and it made smoking weed pretty appealing. But yeah, I went through this like big thing with weed, ended up quitting, uh luckily and thankfully. But because of that, because of my past with weed, I will I'm really, really apprehensive to smoking nowadays. So for something like what what was the example you used for like the benefit that it gives me?

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Well, uh I'm asking you specifically, like, does weed make you relax?

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Right. So no, not anymore, to be honest. Now I just feel But did it though. Yeah, yeah, it did. It made me which which this is like so bad, but it made it basically made me like not care too much about my problems. Which is so bad because it doesn't really f it doesn't fix those problems, it just delays the problems, you know. Like all the stress I had. Smoking weed would definitely help me deal with that stress, but not actually. In the moment it helps because I'm not thinking about it anymore. But once you're once you're sober, those problems are still there. So that that relaxation was very, very, very temporary. Yeah. So what is it like then? What was it like for you to be addicted? It was routine. That was just my it that became like normal life for me. I was severely dependent on it. Like why was why was that bad though? It was bad because of so many reasons. It made it just made life like harder. Like I was like hanging out with friends while high. I was studying while high. I was working while high. I was like around everything I did in that during that year, I I was fucking high, which is like so bad. Yeah, but why why is it bad? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Because you know, we talk about how we and one pro is that it can make things enjoyable. So wasn't it enjoyable during those moments when you were high and doing all these things?

SPEAKER_01 23:11

No, I was just running away from life when I was doing it. It was just uh just constant like constantly distracting myself day after day after day instead of like facing my problems. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

So it sounds like you were using as as a means to avoid your problems.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it was. And I I mean, I don't know exactly if it started this way. I think it did start with, you know, I was hooked on nicotine and my sleep was terrible and melatonin wasn't working too well for me. So I thought maybe I could try smoking weed to fall asleep. And I think that's how but I think I like convinced myself of that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

As in like, oh, that's probably that's an excuse that I use.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that might have been it. I mean, I'm sure there was some truth to it as well, because I do remember, well, I know that sleep's been like such a big part of my life, and I've always like battled to try to get as good sleep as possible, tried like as a bunch of different stuff, which is like hilarious to say when I'm saying like I like smoked a ton of nicotine and smoked a ton of weed. Like, obviously, if I just stopped fucking doing that, then I would have fine sleep.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

So you're like because you know how nicotine makes you like impacts your ability to fall asleep because it's like a stimulant. Yeah. So you're saying that you use weed to combat that problem.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Pretty much. Oh pretty much like smoke nicotine all day. This was before I was smoking weed all day. Yeah, it was the smoking nicotine all fucking day, get to get to nighttime. I know I can't fall asleep easily, so then I start smoking weed, and then I that that did help me fall asleep at the start. Okay. But then it grew into something way bigger than that. Something way worse.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Yeah, because you said you're avoiding problems. What else though? Like both psychologically, physically, what were the what did you really experience in terms of the negative consequences?

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Well, life started moving on without me, you know? Oh, like uh it would be like like a year went by and I realized like a whole fucking year just went by. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Yeah. It was like that. Almost as if do you think it was almost like you're dissociating?

SPEAKER_01 25:13

No, I don't think. Well, can you explain dissociating to me?

SPEAKER_02 25:18

It's like almost as if you're on autopilot and you're and you're looking at yourself from a third party, like above, and you're disconnected.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

It wasn't like that. I was I was on autopilot, but it wasn't like an out-of-body, like I'm not in control anymore. Yeah. I was in control the whole time. I was just like lethargic, not really motivated. Yeah, didn't really have motivation to like do much, just living day by day, getting high day by day, and like that was my life.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Yeah. Do you think it made you depressed? I asked that because so I wrote a paper on weed. Okay. When I was in undergrad. Yeah. It was a class about where we talk, where we choose a topic of pressing concern. Yeah. Which at that time was when cannabis was going to be legalized. So I chose that. Yeah. So I I I think I know a decent amount of weed. Yeah. And weed for a lot of people can worsen depression. Yeah. And even things like bipolar disorder. So do you think for yourself it it worsened anything like depression or anxiety for you?

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Or or even caused it maybe? It definitely I was, I know I was already depressed at that point. Cause because that that period in my life was like everything came tumbling down, not because of weed, but it came everything like crashed in my life. And then I went to weed to like try to deal with that as like a stress relief, basically. Like I told I gave myself like a bunch of told myself a bunch of reasons, convinced myself of like these things that weed would do for me. And yeah, and one of those was like stress relief from things that were like causing depression to me for me. And it definitely made it worse, much worse.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Yeah, because I read so many news articles and even on forums and posts when I was doing research that oh, like I use it because I'm anxious, it helps me anxious, it helps me cope, it helps me numb my emotions. But like if you look at it, I mean, I'm I'm not discounting that. I'm sure it does help in the moment, but long term, I can't imagine it being like that impactful, you know what I mean? Like I feel like in a way it will even make it worse. Like you're not addressing the root cause of that anxiety or depression or what or whatever problem that you're having.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah. Yeah. I I think I'm a fairly anxious person, but I do a fairly good job of masking it. And and I did find anxiety relief in weed, but it was because the weed was causing me anxiety when I was sober. So for example, I like like I said, I was smoking weed a ton and that became normal for me. And then when I wasn't smoking weed and I would like be around other people, I would I wouldn't feel yeah, I would feel like anxious. Like I didn't feel baseline compared to if I was high and around people, I would feel like quote unquote normal. But if I if I was never, you know, if I never had any kind of relationship with weed in the first place, I don't think I would have been nearly as anxious to begin with in those uh social situations.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Do you think it made you more like socially isolated? As in like, oh, I'd rather just stay home and smoke weed and get high. I don't really want to talk to people. I just want to do my own thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Hmm. I would have to think about that for sure because like I said, I was depressed and that made me that kind of made me want to hang out, go out less anyways. But I don't think it was the I did I didn't really want to stay home and smoke weed. That wasn't what was appealing to me. It was just it was more like this sucks, I don't want to think about it right now. And then I was like, But is that the same thing? What do you mean? Like, is wanting to run away from my problems by smoking weed, is that the same thing as wanting to just stay home and smoke weed instead of going out and seeing friends? Could be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I guess maybe, yeah. Maybe it was making me it was making me maybe it was making me less social.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

But I don't know if it was just uh it definitely wasn't just the weed that was making me less social. There were other pressures in my life, and weed was magnifying those pressures.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Like it was it was an amplifier of whatever problems that you were experiencing.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Did you get any like did you notice any physical, like horrible physical effects from it?

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah, I did. First of all, contrary to popular belief, I actually had a lower appetite when much lower appetite. Like no munchies or anything. Yeah, not not well, like when I when I first started smoking weed, then yeah, I would get munchies. Yeah. But then once I was consistently smoking weed like literally every fucking day.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

You know, that's what I heard. Like, because you know, you would think that smoking weed increases your appetite, you get munchies and you gain weight. But but like people who smoke a lot, they they they lose weight eventually.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Yeah, I think I remember talking to you like right when I quit weed, yeah. I was telling you, like, my appetite is so much so much bigger now. You know, once I once I had really gotten off weed and it had been like, I don't know, like a week or something, then my appetite finally came back and I felt felt like I was eating a normal amount for you know my my size and weight and stuff. Yeah. So yeah, it it um fucked fucked my appetite for sure. Was that the only thing that that was bad for you? For physical changes? Okay, so one thing I f I feel like weed did was it damaged my hair. Oh, really? Yeah, legitimately. Yeah, I feel like I s maybe that was this was like uh something to also to do with stress or something. Yeah. But while I was smoking weed, I would notice more hair falling out of my like in the shower and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

You think that's because you weren't really eating well? Because you were always high, yeah, and the lack of nutrition caused your hair to be brittle or something.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Yeah, maybe it was the maybe it was the lack of eating, the lack of nutrients, stress. Yeah. I I I was I was home a lot in that year, so maybe lack of like sunlight, you know. Oh yeah, but that but that's but I mean those those are those can all kind of be attributed

Physical Downsides And Memory Changes

SPEAKER_01 31:17

to weed, you know. Weed is kind of making me do those things. Yeah, you know, eating less, getting uh going out less, stuff like that. Yeah, that's another thing I noticed for physically. What else?

SPEAKER_02 31:28

When was it that you recognized like holy fuck, like I have a problem. I need I need to I need to quit.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

When was it? I mean, I think I knew for a while, and but I but I guess I wasn't like I knew it was a problem, I wasn't acknowledging it was a big problem. Like I remember I I I would even because in around that time I was still hanging out with you, and I would tell you like things like, Oh, I was like high all day, blah blah blah. And even then I knew it was a problem, but it's not like I was really like trying to stop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

So then when was it that you had you got that the the motivation to to quit?

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Something definitely happened because I quit nicotine and uh weed on like the exact same day, which was cold turkey. Yeah, cold turkey, which was fucking intense. Yeah, but uh something something definitely happened. I don't remember exactly what it was. Oh yeah, another fucking terrible thing about weed is I have memory problems now. Oh yeah, yeah, which I didn't have before smoking so much weed. I had a ton of memory problems when I was consistently smoking weed. And another thing is it also made me stutter a lot back then. And now that I'm not doing it anymore, my my memory's gotten better.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

I still sometimes have issues remembering like small things, just like events or like like deadlines or like an appointment or reminders, like small things like reminders, deadlines, you know, some things coming up, and then like maybe some other things.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I'll just need to be like briefly reminded of something until I remember exactly what it was. Yeah. So yeah, like my memory is getting better now, and I'm stuttering much less now. But back then, I I was stuttering so much that I remember some conversations. My stutter would be so bad that I would just like give up on what I was saying, and I like stopped talking.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Damn.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Yeah. I think I was actually one time I was talking with your wife, and I was like trying to say something, and I got into like this stuttering fit, and then I just like stopped, and she's she's like, You're not gonna finish that. I'm like, nope, I'm not finishing that sentence. Something to do with the weed for sure. Oh, interesting. I don't know if it was like an anxiety thing, but it it I mean, my brain was like, you know, it was like misfiring basically. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Oh yeah, it definitely fucked with my my speech when I was doing it a ton. So what what helped you quit then? Willpower, man. Yeah, which is pure willpower. Yeah, I think I was just cause because I did quit cold turkey. Yeah. And oh, because with things like nicotine, I had tried not quitting cold turkey. I had tried weaning off by going from like high nicotine content vape to lower nicotine to no nicotine, or like to and then I even tried the nicotine gum for a little bit, and those things didn't work for me. So I was like, I'm just doing cold turkey. And I had the same thing with weed at the exact same, like same day, same time. Damn, and yeah, it was intense, but it it worked pretty well. Did you get withdrawals? Yeah, really, really bad.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

Like which with like what kind? Like uh I guess it'd be hard to know because you it's mixed up with nicotine, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

I I guess I can explain all my symptoms. So obviously, I really, really wanted to have a hit or something. Yeah, yeah. It was really bad for uh it was actually really, really bad and intense, but it was quite short. Like I got over it in like a week. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Yeah, like you didn't have any like sleep problems after after when oh you did.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

I did, yeah. But but it was the sleep problem was because so once I quit both of those things, my biggest issue, the biggest symptom was hyperhydrosis. My my body was just sweating. Oh, really? Yeah, everywhere constantly. Like my entire my full body was always sweating, especially the palms of my hand, yeah, the soles of my feet. And that made sleeping really tough.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

And it went away though? Yeah, eventually went away. Oh after like after like a month, wow finally went away. Were you vomiting at all? Apparently that could happen.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

No nausea, no, no vomiting, nothing like that. But the thing I remember the most distinctly and the thing that I struggled with the most was the sweating. It was oh my god, it was so fucking frustrating. Because like I would be, I would be in bed, get under my get under like if it was winter, get under my blanket for like two minutes and my entire body's soaked, and then like can't sleep in the blanket anymore. Get like a smaller like sheet, you know. Even if if I'm covered in like just a sheet, like a thin sheet, still within like five minutes of laying in bed, I'm just I'm just drenched in sweat. Damn. That was horrible. Did you get moody a lot? Like irritable. I think so, but that week where I was quitting, I made sure to just be a caveman and just like not interact with people.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

And tried to I slept a lot, especially the first couple days. Slept a ton. Basically slept as much as I could. And it also had to do with because at nighttime I was getting terrible sleep because of the sweating. So during the daytime, if I was ever able to actually fall asleep, I would I would take the chance.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

So I spent a lot of time like sleeping or trying to sleep. Then like after the first three days, didn't have as intense or didn't feel like the need to sleep as much. Still had problems sleeping at night, but it was like something had after those first couple days, things were like starting to clear out of my system. And then it was a little bit easier to fall asleep, but the sweat was still a huge issue. And then I like tried to do a bunch of different things to combat the sweating. But yeah, that was uh that was basically the worst of it. Yeah, uh for the quitting. And then for other symptoms, I I realized it's it's all for me at least, it was all about the routine of doing stuff. So constantly like reaching for a vape, reaching for uh for the weed. And once I replaced those actions with other non-harmful actions, for example, every time I would really feel the need to take a hit, instead I would just chug water, like chug as much water as I could until I no longer felt that need, and it worked. So yeah, those those are and then eventually I I quit smoking weed.

Quitting Cold Turkey And Withdrawals

SPEAKER_02 37:43

So then yeah, so you had a pretty complicated relationship with weed, like what started off as pretty pretty like chill, yeah, like nothing, yeah. Later became an addiction. Yeah. A dependency. Yeah, for sure. Like you recognized how it's been it was destructive to your

Legalization Risks Psychosis And DUIs

SPEAKER_02 38:01

life. Super destructive. So then, you know, looking back on it, cannabis, the weed was legalized in Canada in 2018. Yeah. Do you think that was a good decision?

SPEAKER_01 38:13

I want to say no. Of course, there's a caveat in that I'm speaking as someone who had a pretty bad experience with weed, uh but to be honest, I'm like kind of to blame for that, at least partially, because I abused it, but I still feel like it's a little too available right now. And in my opinion, there has not been enough discussion and enough of an effort to educate everyone about exactly what weed is, what what the what the value of weed is in our in our lives, you know?

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Yeah, I mean, I wholeheartedly agree. I think that like making it legal decrease weed-related offenses. Yeah. Like it's a good thing, right? Yeah. Great thing. I just wonder if it would have been better if maybe they had they had like a tiered approach or some sort of like more stepwise approach of introducing the legalization of cannabis. Yeah. Rather than doing it all at one go. And also making it more strictly regulated with more health information related to it. Because I I honestly think there's just so many negatives to weed in terms of like your health. Especially because in Canada specifically, probably in other places as well, but you know, there's emergency visits that have went up quite significantly with things like with like visits related to weed. Yeah. Whatever that could that could be. And amongst those, what's been quite concerning is like psychosis. Like especially with younger children. I mean not children, more I guess more adolescents and young adults. Yeah. Where they where they begin to hear voices, they'll get more withdrawn, they get paranoid, and and some of these cases, like they the trajectory eventually leads to things like schizophrenia. Damn. And and it quite literally and unfortunately ruins lives, I think.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yeah. Do you think um so is this like uh an an alarming number for you, the amount of people that are getting afflicted with things like psychosis and schizophrenia? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think all of do you think a lot of those people were have a predisposition and then weed like kind of activates that?

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Yeah, like when I was researching it, like weed isn't a definite causative agent of schizophrenia. But it's more so that people have a lot of like predispositions, like you said. Could be genetic, could be like environmental or whatever. And then cannabis just adds on to that layer and it tips them into developing like schizophrenia eventually.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yeah, and young adults are probably at the most risk. Either young adults or like really old people. Well, young, young adults, yeah. And yeah, this stuff is available like the day you're 18, you can't. Literally, yeah, you can just go to a dispensary. Yeah, and you know what's crazy? Dispensaries are everywhere, they're everywhere. There's a there's this shopping center really close to my house, like two minutes away. Not like the really big one, but the theater, it's a it's another one. And there's like a grocery store and a bunch of shops there. But in this like gigantic, this like big area of a bunch of stores, there's two dispensaries, not one, two, and they're like a hundred meters away from each other. Yeah, these dispensaries are like literally everywhere nowadays, and it's so easy and so cheap to get weed. It's it's super, super available for anyone that wants it. Yeah, like they should make it more expensive.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Yeah, if ba baseline. Or I guess if they do that though, then you're gonna like people just gonna buy from like dealers or something. Yeah. Which is a different problem.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah, it is it is a different problem. And I I do believe that, you know, I've said this before. I still I still baseline belief that adults should be able to do what they want to, as long as they're not harming others. But there are notable risks with with weed. One that I don't think we've talked about at all up to this this point is you know, DUIs with weed, driving under the influence of weed. And I think that I think that's more common nowadays than people realize. I feel like there's more people driving high, a lot more people driving high than there are people driving drunk these days. Probably actually. Yeah. And you know, that's that's pretty dangerous for the people around you.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

So yeah, it's it's complicated for sure. All I know it the stance I have right now is I don't like the way things are right now. Yeah. I think I think the system that we have in place in Canada is a little little dangerous, a little too dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Yeah, I think I think people should just be more informed about what weed can do. Like, like, sure, it could have benefits. And I'm not, once again, I'm not discounting that, but there's a lot of negatives to to using weed as well.

Drug Education And Why DARE Failed

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Yeah, like remember, you remember Comclass in high school? Yeah. This is the kind of shit that that should be like all over ComClass. Yeah. You know, like all these dangerous things that are are, you know, a normal part of adulthood in the Western world. Well, I don't know, maybe, maybe nowadays they're teaching kids about weed in high school since it's legal. Yeah, I mean, they they totally should. I guess for us, you know, when we were in high school, it wasn't legal, so there wasn't a whole lot of conversation. It was more about like don't do this rather than rather than exactly explaining what it does.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

There's actually nothing at all like that when we were in high school.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Except in elementary school.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

Yeah, we heard there.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah. The drug abuse resistance education program, which I think isn't is across all of North America. It's probably not global, right? Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure it's in America. I've had some American friends and they seem to know what dare is as well.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

I'm trying to see if it was act if the dare program was actually effective.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

You remember the line, Dairy the Lion? It was Dairy, right? Wait, what? The lion's name? Wasn't it Dairy? Oh, I have no idea. Oh yeah, I think it was Dairy the Lion. But in uh in the in uh I'm not sure if this is a thing in America, but in Canada, so we have this dare program. I'm pretty sure it's also in America. And there's like this this line mascot that comes into class and they would talk about you know drugs and stuff and to resist them.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Apparently, yeah, the Dare program was minimally effective. Really? Yeah. For for encouraging students to stop or not encouraging from dissuading students from using substances. And that sometimes it even backfired. Yeah. And that students who participated in the programs were actually more likely to use drugs.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Really? Yeah. I wonder why that is. Maybe it's because of you know conflicting information. Maybe you hear something from Dare and you're like, wait a minute, that's your name, right? I think so. I think so. Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, a couple years back, not a couple years back, I think maybe it was like a decade ago. I remember on social media, there was like all of a sudden people started wearing dare dare shirts again. Really? Yeah, yeah. I remember it became like cool to wear dare shirts and two trucks while wearing them. Like there were I remember on social media there was a bunch of people posting like pictures of like with a joint or some shit with while wearing a dare shirt or like drinking alcohol with a dare shirt or something like that. Wasn't alcohol also part of dare? I'm sure it was like all drugs were were part of dare. Yeah, thinking back, I actually don't remember shit from Dare shirt. Me too. It was because it wasn't class, it was like the line would come in and have like a little seminar. Well, I remember watching videos.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

So you know, like you know, they would bring in those big TVs, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe it was that dude. Just just thinking out loud, who the fuck was in that costume? You think it was someone from from our from like schools was getting in the dare costume?

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Raceword was probably some like high school kid. Oh, you think extra money or something?

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Oh, dude. Actually, yeah, you're probably right. I I was thinking it it was like someone brings a costume or part of the dare program or something, and then maybe the teacher gets in it.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Well, I think anyone could be the fucking lion. Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Because they don't talk, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Yeah, no, actually, oh maybe they maybe maybe they did talk.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

But anyways, yeah, apparently Dare was not effective and they revamped the curriculum or something.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Really? Yeah. Do you know much about the revamped curriculum? Not at all. I hope I hope it's more towards education rather than like I mean, I don't remember exactly if it was super, super like don't do drugs. I think it was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

But the world is just so different now. You can't just tell people not to do something like because it's like disingenuous, you know, you gotta explain why and let them make the decision for themselves.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

But I guess how would you because I I got that in elementary. Yeah, me too. Like, how would you deliver it in a way that you explain all of this to a grade, I don't know, grade grade five students.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Is this something that should be presented to elementary kids? Maybe it's something in junior high, you think? Yeah. Yeah. Was there a dare in junior high? For me, no. I don't think there was either, yeah. Maybe it's something that should be pushed towards junior high instead. Because like when you're in elementary, you're like, what the fuck is all this?

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it doesn't really make sense. So it sounds like once again, similar to really the other two things we talked about, like nicotine and alcohol. It's a pretty nuanced conversation. But this one personally for me, my stance is definitely a bit more stronger on against for cannabis, just because of the things I I've witnessed myself personally and what I've looked up into. Yeah. But those are those are my thoughts. I think this one is something that I wanted to express kind of the dangers of it more.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

For that reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Do you feel like you got everything out? Can you think of any any more pros and cons?

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Well, it's not even just about pros and cons at this point. It's just like I don't think I think there's a lot more education, a lot more conversation should be held around held around weed.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Yeah, I

Ranking Dangers And Final Tease

SPEAKER_01 48:07

agree. And of the of the three substances that we've talked about so far, where would you rank them in terms of danger?

SPEAKER_02 48:14

Well, I mean alcohol is still definitely number one. You think so? Because alcohol like it literally kills people.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Yeah, but there is quite a barrier to entry to alcohol, don't you think?

SPEAKER_02 48:24

No, but then I think like still the number one most commonly abused drug is alcohol, like to take away caffeine and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

So Yeah, and uh I guess as a global thing as well, weed is a lot less uh available.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

I actually think there's a chart the ranking of the most dangerous like drugs and alcohol is like number one or something. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Like that's that's our spiel on weed. I think I think um yeah, like your relationship with with weed is pretty interesting. I think you almost had a very complex, like a dynamic relationship with it.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Yeah, I I can't remember exactly what it was that made me finally stop, but I mean it's it's great that I did because I if I hadn't like found a reason to stop, I I think I would have just like I could have still been been in that cycle all the way up to today, you know, if I hadn't found the drive to stop back then. I think I think that really encapsulates weed. It kind of just gets a grip on you and you know you don't even realize it. And then for me at least, I woke up I woke up one day and I was like, where the hell am I?

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Yeah. I'm glad that you're able to quit because it would have been like a slippery slope to anything which is worse and worse.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

It was a slippery slope. I mean, I basically lost a year of my life. That's already terrible. And it was all kind of my own doing, you know. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

I'm I I I always have a pretty different take on addiction.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

So I feel like you're a lot more compassionate than I am when it comes to this. Well, I think everyone should be, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Yeah, you're right. So yeah, but that's all the time we have today for this episode of catch up with Kyle and Cohen. Next one will be our last episode in our series. I think it'll be a pretty interesting one. This is probably something that most people or a lot of people probably wouldn't have tried.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

So we're gonna get the heart drugs.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

Not gonna say which ones, but you're gonna have to tune in until next time. So thank you for listening, and we will talk to you then.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

This was catch up with kind cohen. Peace. Peace.