Are psychedelics the future of our world?

For the first time in our drug mini series, we're coming out in favour of one. Psychedelics have carried a stigma for decades. But there is growing evidence of their use in the sphere of mental health. In this episode Kai shares his own personal experiences with psychedelics, specifically the wonders of an enchanting trip.

Transcript

Final Substances Series Kickoff

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome back to this episode of Catch Up with Kyle and Cohen. This is our final episode of our substances series where we decided to talk about some drugs that we've had interest in, maybe had personal experiences in and our thoughts on it, because I personally care about my views on these substances. So I thought I wanted to share it to the world if there is anyone who's listening to this, maybe one or two.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

But a couple harder drugs today.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

I've I've always kind of been open to And we say when we say harder, it's not that we think it's more bad in the sense that it's hard on your body, but more regulated. It's a more of a controlled.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah, more like more like a colloquial description of it, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it's not actually harder than you know the other stuff we've talked about. Yeah. It's just it's viewed as more intense, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

So nowadays in in our current society, there's big talks of the use of psychedelics in anything.

Psychedelics In Culture And History

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Like right now, it's it's such a huge controversial, big topic in mental health, how it has a maybe promising role in things like PTSD, depression, anxiety, but it actually dates back. The use of psychedelic dates back long, long, long, long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Yeah, you remember I was talking about MK Ultra a couple episodes back? Yeah. That was uh I s so I forgot to look into this, but I'm pretty sure LSD acid was like a big part of MK Ultra. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, actually, yes, it was because I remember there's this movie called Tropic Thunder, which I fucking love.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Yeah, I love Tropic Thunder.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yeah, you remember the first scene of Tropic Thunder where it's like black and white, and the guy it's like a scientist and a guy is this Tropic Thunder?

SPEAKER_01 1:45

I don't think that's Tropic Thunder.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

What movie was that? Pineapple Express.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Pineapple Express, yeah, yeah, yeah. Opening seat of Pineapple Express. It's like a scientist and gives a guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

I don't know if you gave him LSD or if you gave him weed in Pineapple Express, but well, and Pineapple Express isn't as part of the plot, aren't they trying to No, Pineapple Express is the weed.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, Pineapple Express is weed, but I don't remember if if in the movie they gave him weed okay, they probably gave him weed in the movie, but part of MK Ultra, I'm pretty sure was was acid. It was it was, yeah, like these psychedelic things that they were experimenting with in America in uh the last uh century.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah, I mean I keep on referring back to this, but I took that former college course, university. It's it's it's basically a course about talking all about like a list of substances.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

And um acid was part of it. And that's actually what piqued my interest at first. Apparently, it was discovered in like oh fuck, I don't know, like 94, 1940s, 1950s by the scientist. Apparently he took like an insane amount of dose and he was he was on his bike, like going at it for so long.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Like a stationary bike or no, no, no, like bicycling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, yeah, must have been happening to that.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

And then like what, like in the 1960s, 70s, there's like a huge psychedelic movement by use of the people, musicians, rock bands.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

And this was still acid?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

So it is a quick question. Is it is two questions actually. First, is it a naturally okay, is this like a plant or something?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Well, LSD is a chemical. Okay. Chemically made substance, but but things that are similar, chemically similar to LSD and naturally do occur though.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

All right. And then second question, what does LSD stand for?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Oh fuck I have nobody.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

But I can go to zero setting.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

But yeah, like, you know, there was that huge psychedelic movement in music, like Beatles made their had like uh their phase of making that type of music. And now even there's like a genre of psychedelic funk and poker and psychedelic rock music. Like, but yeah, anyways, have you tried acid?

First Acid Trip Calm And Curious

SPEAKER_00 3:41

I have tried acid. How's that? Well, yeah, like I said, uh throughout my life I well, not throughout my life, at some point in my life I decided I was okay with uh trying stuff that wasn't like super dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, and to know, I'm not saying I'm promote this just as a preface. Yeah, acid actually isn't that dangerous physically, just letting the audience know. Just wanted to give that notice first.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Okay, and that would that was part of why I was uh because you know, acid sounds very scary. Sounds horrible. Yeah, the the name itself is like you're taking acid, what the fuck are you doing? It sounds like worse than like it sounds like on the same level as like crystal math. No, I agree, I agree, or like crack cocaine or some shit like that. Yeah, and LSD also sounds like, oh man, that's a scary ass name.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

It's like a fucking chemical name.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Like what exactly? Like, you know, weed doesn't have a name like that, nicotine doesn't have a name like that. I mean it th they do, but you know, no one refers to them by chemical names. So yeah, that was that was uh why I was open to trying it. And also a couple friends around us have um tried it before.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

So would you do it?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Would I do it?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Where did you do it?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Oh, where did I do it? So I did it at one of our friends' house. That was about the first time I did it, and not gonna lie, it was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah, yeah. Tell me about the experience from the beginning to the very end.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Yeah, yeah. My first time doing acid, it was it was super fun. I had a great time, and since then I've I've done it again, actually, a couple times.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yeah, so like tell me about it, like the trip. Like, what is it, what is it like?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah, so I did it very sparingly, and what it feels like is like you feel really, really calm and happy, and like physically you feel calm. Yes, physically I feel very calm, very serene, I guess. Other things are visually, things are very, very interesting. Like vibrant, yeah, and not just vibrant, but it it's it's like you feel curious about things.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Oh, that's oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah, yeah. For for example, you might look at a wall while sober and be like, that's like a white wall or like a gray wall or a brown wall or something. But then on acid, you might be interested enough to think about well, what exactly shade of red is that wall? You know, and then try to like think about, you know, is that like is all like rouge red? I don't know what the fucking colors there are, but you know, you get curious in that way and interested in that way in things.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

So you're not hallucinating in a way that, oh holy fuck, I see this goblin right in front of me. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

I've I've never like hallucinated hallucinated ever on acid. It's just things look prettier.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Prettier.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, prettier. Okay. Like colors look prettier.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah. Is it because yeah, like more vibrant, like are are patterns moving? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

So patterns do move, but it it's it's not like it's not scary at all or anything like that. Yeah. It's just simple things like I I've never really talked about this, but things like paintings kind of come to life a little bit. You get to you can see like flowers that are stationary and you know that they're stationary, they kind of come to life a little bit. They they like they might blow a little bit in the wind, like real flowers do. Uh I'm talking about paintings here.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

And if you go outside and and look at real flowers, they just look, you know, really, really captivating. Even even grass looks really captivating. So they come to life. Yeah, yeah, they come to life. They seem well, like I said, you become really curious and interested in in things like that. Like like flowers. You might, you know, on sober, you might look at a flower, you might appreciate it, think that's a really pretty flower. It's a really pretty color. But on acid, you might have your train of thought might be more like, oh, I wonder what kind of flower this is. You might, you know, feel it feel good enough to like go all the way up to a flower and like touch it, or see how it feels in your fingers, or like really how how it smells, and yeah, pay attention pay attention to your like curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Oh, it sounds like your senses are like heightened.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Like your vision.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Some senses, yeah. Some senses are heightened. Some are dulled. Oh, dull. Yes. Oh, things like something like taste. Taste on acid is uh, in my opinion, quite dulled. And maybe a byproduct of that is like you don't really feel like eating too much. Maybe it's because things aren't, maybe it's because you can't taste it that well, maybe it's because you know you got other priorities at the time. You're enjoying yourself. So is it like that the whole time? Because how long does it

Duration Impairment And The Come Up

SPEAKER_00 8:15

last? So acid, it lasts quite a while. Yeah, it's basically a full day excursion. Yeah. If you start at, you know, you you you basically got to set aside like eight to twelve hours for this.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

It's not like you're like incapacitated in those eight to twelve hours. It's just, you know, you you should set that time aside to be able to like enjoy yourself. You shouldn't, you know, you don't want to do anything else while you're on acid for sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Is that because you're like, I don't know, is it almost as if you're drunk that you can't operate a vehicle and you can't talk to people or or why is it that you can't do anything?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Yeah. So things like you know, operating a motor vehicle, definitely dangerous. Definitely dangerous because you'll be distracted all the time and you you you definitely are impaired.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Like, you know, even I mean Yeah, you literally said your senses are like even walking in a straight line, it's it's it's not like you're gonna like stumble all over the place, but you're not gonna be as solid as you would be if you were uh sober, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Yeah, like like does it so then like I said before, is it like that the entire eight, twelve hours, like what you're what you described just now?

SPEAKER_00 9:22

I would say it's like so the beginning part. So once you take acid for about the first hour or so, they're kind of just waiting for it activate, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Like you're not feel you don't feel anything, does it just like kick in like like that?

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Or no, not quite. Okay, so you feel a little bit of like of something. To some people that that feels like anxiety. To some people it's like actually for I think for most people, it's either like you feel some anxiety or you don't. Sometimes I'll feel a little bit of anxiety, but very little. It's not very much. And then it kind of just like happens, like uh you're you're waiting for it to happen, and it kind of just happens. It's like a pretty smooth transition, and then you realize like, oh, I think I'm starting to feel it. And things like gradually become you know more vibrant, more colorful. Yeah, your your body starts to feel lighter, happier, and and yeah, and then you're high. And then that'll last for about a solid like six to eight hours at least. Oh, six hours, no, not six hours, like eight to ten hours. Yeah, I would say it lasts pretty strongly, especially for me. For example, one thing I said is like you you do get like visual things things visually look different, you know. You see vibrant colors, moving, moving patterns, moving shapes, stuff like that, moving paintings. And for me personally, I I know this hasn't been the experience of everyone around me that has also tried acid, but for me, I I see those things pretty much for like 12 hours all the almost all the way up until I go to sleep. Damn. Yeah, which is pretty sick. Isn't that doesn't it get tiring? No, not at all. The whole time nothing gets tiring. Yeah. Uh when uh when I'm on acid. The whole time it's just wow, everything is so interesting and and I'm so curious about everything. And it's like having like a it's like every experience is like a novel experience.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Oh like a like a baby in a new world. Yeah, yeah. Baby in a new world.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Yeah, quite like that. It's like it's like you're seeing flowers for the first time. It's like you're yeah, you're seeing clouds for the first time, or you're seeing you're really noticing the the colors of your room for the first

Best Acid Activities Nature And Movies

SPEAKER_00 11:40

time.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Do you like doing anything else while on acid?

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Anything else while on acid? What do you mean? Like activities or like other drugs?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

No, like activities, because it sounds like you like observing a lot of different things, especially nature.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

But yeah, so my favorite thing definitely is to just be observing things. Yeah. But other fun things are definitely something like I think the the most fun thing aside from you know just uh enjoying nature is uh actually watching movies while on accent or like watch watching like something with amazing animation. Like big shout out to Spider-Verse. Yeah, that is the goaded acid movie. It just looks so fucking awesome. Yeah, but yeah, my my big thing is definitely uh when it comes to acid, is like taking in nature and you know, just being calm and peaceful. Like one of my one of my favorite things to do, or one of my favorite times to do acid, probably my favorite time to do acid is like camping or like being in the mountains, being in a lodge, something like that. Because there's so much beauty around already. Yeah. And then just doing acid while in that situation, just like I said before, you get so curious and interested and and notice so much more. So definitely my favorite thing is to just be around nature secondary would probably be watch movies, shows, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

You know how it can be, you know, how you know the word acid, it's like pretty scary. Yeah, we should find another name for it. Like in the media, or I guess even in movies, there's like this fear-mongering of, oh, we're gonna go crazy, like psychotic. Like, do you have to doing it? Could you see yourself experiencing that while being on acid?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

For me personally, no. But I know that this is something that is extremely dependent on the person. Actually, is it? Is this because I know I know we've since we've talked about it with weed, that can cause psychosis and and be really bad for something like bipolar disorder or schizophrenia.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Well, I guess like technically the fact that things are moving like when you're on ass, it's just normally not in itself is considered psychosis, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

So really, I mean, but that's like the that that will never freak me out because I I'm expecting that. You know, like I I know that's that's what's going to happen. Yeah. And nothing out outside of my expectations has ever happened.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, I mean, I've seen YouTube videos where like the YouTuber did incredible doses of acid and it kind of changed them, though. Like it changed their personality, which which seemed a little scary.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah. Uh I I guess, yeah, one thing for me is like I do basically every everything I've tried has always been quite a low dosage. Even even with acid. I I think I basically take like the minimum dose, yeah. Yeah. See, I never really had like and and that works for me. You know, I don't need anything more. Yeah. I feel fucking awesome with uh the the little that I do take.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

So then

Tolerance Addiction And Dose Decisions

SPEAKER_01 14:35

you know how like from the way you describe it, it sounds amazing, right? Yeah. Because it's so amazing then, like, is it addictive for you?

SPEAKER_00 14:42

No, not at all. I mean, I haven't done it in might be years now, I think, that I haven't done it.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

I mean, I it was on is on paper, but the abuse potential of acid is very low. Yeah. Like it's one of the least addictive drugs that you could do. Yeah. But I wonder why though, because like if it sounds great, you know what I mean? Like you feel great, things that you observe and see, it seems great as well. But why is it so interesting then why it why it's not addictive then?

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Well, things I've heard is the the big thing that I heard, probably the first thing that I heard about acid was the the more you do it, the less it works.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Oh, that's true. That is true, actually.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

I I didn't learn that. Yeah. So for example, like for me, I do it at most once or twice a year. You know, not not more than that. Yeah. And there's even like, you know, like I said earlier, it's it's been uh I I'm pretty sure it's been like a year or two years since I last did it. I think it's been maybe a year or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

So yeah, you can do it quite sparingly because if you start doing more consistently, it's just not you're not really gonna get the effects of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Yeah, I remember in in that same pharmacology class quite literally, you do it and then if you want to do it the next day, you literally have to like double that dose. Yeah, and you have to wait a while for your tolerance to come back. So tolerance builds up very quickly. Yeah. I think it's for all psychedelics, actually, not just acid. Like for shrooms, like mushrooms as well. I'm pretty sure the tolerance builds up pretty quickly. Weed weed is a psychedelic, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Weed? Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, no, no, no. Oh, okay. Okay, interesting. Yeah, I've done uh mushrooms only once in my life as well. But yeah, it's interesting that these things you you kind of can't like keep doing it like with weed. Like you smoke you smoke weed a bunch, you do build up a tolerance and you feel it less, but you can like power through that by just like fucking smoking way more weed, you know. So interesting.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah, but with these things, you can't do that at

Mental Health Potential And Introspection

SPEAKER_01 16:31

all. So I we touched on in the beginning that you know there's a huge movement in the medical world that psychedelics are being looked into for its role in depression, anxiety, trauma, stuff like that. Yeah. After trying acid, do you see the potential of it being used for mental health illnesses?

SPEAKER_00 16:52

What kind of problem do you would you want in in this situation? Like what kind of problem would it be used for? Someone that's like dealing with like trauma?

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, I just said like depression and anxiety, trauma.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Well, I I I don't know how much you know the exact danger of someone because for me personally, so I've I've never done acid while I was depressed.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

I like consciously made the decision to like told friends like no, I'm I'm not gonna do it this time because like I'm not really feeling great. So I don't know how I personally don't know how someone that's like not feeling amazing would react to acid, but if if it's like if there if there's no risk of making something something worse, which you know there's gotta be some risk, I'm sure. If someone that's like depressed or dealing with trauma, if they're able to do acid and feel the way that I feel while I'm on acid, then I think definitely it can be useful for dealing with stuff like that. Okay. But uh but it really hinges on you know, how is this psychedelic going to interact with that specific person's brain chemistry at that specific moment? And I'm sure medical for medical uses, would someone that is taking acid to deal with a medical problem, would they be taking the same dosage as a recreational dose?

SPEAKER_01 18:18

What's a medical problem? Like like what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Say say same situation like this, like depression or trauma.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Oh, I see. I don't know. No idea.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Cause I because yeah, I've heard of like maybe like microdosing for medical purposes, or like maybe that's being tested.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

But but yeah, like I said, if the person could the person that is taking acid for the medical reason, if they could feel the exact if they could consistently feel the exact same things that I feel when I do acid, I would say for sure it it would be useful for dealing with with mental health problems or trauma issues. But then the big the big concern is that we know that you can't keep just keep doing acid. You know you have you have like a short supply over a limited time that you have access to. And once you use that, you can't you can't just add well. I don't think you can just add more. You gotta you know wait wait up a little bit for the tolerance to build up again. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I guess do you think it has application in the I mean I I think so. How do you feel?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

I have no idea. You know what I mean? So any guesses? I mean, because you're saying that you're more curious about the world. Yes. About what you observe. So I I'm wondering if like that introspection is what could be helpful for people struggling with depression. Like like it helps them look in inwards about what they're struggling with. And not even depression, things like trauma as well. Maybe that's how they can process some of these challenges. It could be that maybe, oh, they're going through grief or they have unresolved problems from the past that they can't really tap in without the help of these psychedelics. So maybe that's a that's a way or avenue to lower your guard and like inner guard to explore these issues.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yeah. Th there are I I know there have been times where which is another thing I really love about acid, it it does or I at least I feel like it really does help me organize some thoughts that I was maybe ignoring while sober. Like like things that yeah, things that I just didn't want to like really put mental attention towards for one reason or another.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

For some reason on acid, I feel comfortable like confronting those things at like on my own, you know, just in my in my mind itself. So so maybe, yeah, maybe that could be really helpful for us for that. Because I oftentimes, or maybe not even often, maybe almost every single time, after having these like this period of time where I'm just thinking about something while on acid, almost every single time I I finish that I don't know what you call it, like a thinking session. Uh almost every single single time I come out of that feeling quite happy and like feeling like uh feeling more prepared than I did before.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

So yeah, I so yeah, I could see that being useful for sure.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, from from the things that I read up on, like there was even a study where it just given like one dose of like magic mushrooms helped with their depression. But I think like I still think that the studies or research or whatever are still pretty preliminary. Yeah. Meaning that, oh, like it's not like they looked into this for 10, 20 years. It's a pretty recent phenomenon. So I guess we'll have to see how effective it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Yeah, for example, what you just said with the guy that took magic mushrooms. You know, I'm sure after like how much how much did he take, how often, how long did he do this? Because if it was like no, in the study was like just once. Just once. Yeah. I feel like that's useless. Yeah. You know, guy gets high on shrooms, feels great that day, and then you know, that doesn't give you any data.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Well, no, like they would well, I I'm actually not too sure of the exact study details, but I think I think they assessed it maybe a few months later, not like immediately after. Gotcha. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Okay. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yeah. I don't have a I only have one experience with magic mushrooms. I guess I'll talk about it real quick.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Well, I mean, just psychedelics in general, because I I think like the way they work are similar. Like acid and shrooms are similar in the work. So that's just my general comment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say uh felt really, really similar to me. Yeah. Mushrooms felt felt like mini acid, just like a shorter, shorter version of it.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yeah, because like because MDMA, like Molly, is it yeah, actually, I don't know what the street name for Molly is. I mean for MDMA.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

I think it is Molly.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Or is it E? Or is it X E Ecstasy? Or I don't I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

So Confession, I've also done Molly or

MDMA At Festivals Come Up To Euphoria

SPEAKER_00 22:44

MDMA.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

And you know what? I I think I'm I'm not ex entirely sure if E and Speed and whatever the fuck, if they're all I I know for sure speed is not Molly, though.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

That sounds intense.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

But I'm confused as in is MDMA Molly is Molly. Ecstasy is ecstasy e.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

But from what I know, MDMA is the like pure or chemical form of Molly. And Molly is like the street name, and that might be cut with something else. Yeah. And then ecstasy, I have no idea. Yeah. I I I think it's probably Molly as well. Anyways, anyways, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

How was how was your experience?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

I mean this one is tougher.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

It's because I I ask you this because there's also growing, growing like intention and research in the role of MDMA for mental health, like specifically for PTSD and trauma.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Really? Yeah. So that's that's pretty difficult for me to wrap my head around. So should I talk about what Molly feels like?

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yeah, like how was your experience?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Okay, so first time I did that was it was at a festival. There was this one festival that friends and I, a couple of our friends would go to every year, and that was where I did MDMA or Molly for the first time. And I haven't done it in quite a while now, like years, years, years. And I don't know if I'll do it again. Probably not, to be honest. Okay, why not? It's one of those drugs that just kind of a little scary. Like, I'm scary. I'm not really comfortable with getting stuff that's well before we talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Like, how was your experience?

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Okay. So what it feels like is like so you take Molly, it's a pill, and for like an hour, you kind of feel like shit.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

In what way?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Like, so it's called the come up. Yeah. And you feel kind of anxious, you feel kind of nervous, you feel kind of similar to actually no, maybe similar to acid for some people names. Yeah, I mean, for for me, I feel it way more with Molly than with acid. Like the worst thing I've had with like quote unquote the come up on on acid is like maybe I feel a little bit like uh like a burp a little too much or something, like my my tummy like rumbles. Yeah. But then on on Molly, it's it's uh it can be a lot more intense. Yeah, like I I definitely feel the anxiety, definitely feel the nervousness, feel like like hot a little bit, yeah, like under pressure, and you feel like that for for almost an hour, and then almost magically, like a switch split, you stop feeling that, and then you kind of feel like insanely awesome. You feel you feel amazing, you feel like like all the worries you had two minutes ago, they're all gone. And you're just uh you're a you're a part of the fucking the congregation now. What does that mean? Like you're in the crowd at a festival, the music is blasting, everyone's dancing, and you're part of them. Like you become one with the crowd. You're you're you're not worried about it anymore. You're just you're you're in the moment then.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

And you you kind of stay in the moment feeling pretty awesome. Like, okay, I gotta say it. I gotta be a little bit more descriptive. You feel like uh like really energetic. You feel lots of energy. Yeah, you feel tons of energy, you feel no, no more quitting in you. You know, you just you just go until you can't go anymore. You dance until dance way past your your legs want you to dance. You like kind of like push past your limits, yeah, and just party all night long, basically. Don't feel tired, everything feels fun. Music sounds great. Yeah, time time kind of flies, yeah, but but it kind of flies just because you're having such an awesome time. Yeah, such an amazing time. Um just partying.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Like, do you I mean the the in media the popular perception of Molly is that it makes you like super like loving towards us or affectionate towards others.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Yeah, that definitely happens. I feel I feel really happy around my my friends, lots of hugging, lots of telling each other that we you know we're good boys, we feel like I love each other, reminisce about there, like there's this uh so we've gone to festivals a couple times with a or I have with a couple of our friends, and I've just one friend that I've known for a long time. And like and every time we would be at a festival together and like get high on Molly, we would start reminiscing about our times back in back in junior high and back when we were kids. So yeah, you get you become very loving, yeah. When you're on when you're on Molly. Yeah. How long does it last? It lasts how long does it last? I it lasts about four or five hours, I think, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think uh in enough just for half a festival, basically.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

We we would we would get there about halfway through the festival, pop Molly, and then for the second half, we're um basically good to go. Okay. Oh wow, okay. So then I mean why why wouldn't you want to do it

Why Molly Feels Riskier Than LSD

SPEAKER_00 27:50

again then? The reason I don't want to do it again is I'm just trying to be more careful about the kind of stuff I put in my body. And the biggest worry I have with with Molly is it's quite, you know, with something like acid, it's not very common for it to be cut with something else. I mean, I don't even know how you could do that. Well, it could be a different chemical, I guess. Yeah, I guess. But yeah, I get you though. Yeah. Like it's it's a different world, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Yeah, it could be like laced with like phenol, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Exactly, exactly. And um and and it's it's kind of common for Molly to be laced with like cut with something else. Yeah. You you're not gonna get pure MDMA.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

You you might you're like you might, but it's like gonna be rare.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Much more easier to cut by the dealers rather than acid because no one's like cutting acid anymore.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Yeah, like I mean, should I explain what it looks like? Like acid is just like a like a tiny little piece of paper. Yeah, you know, it it seems difficult to fuck with it too much. Yeah. But then when you've got like a pill, pretty easy to fuck with a pill. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Like especially if you're trying to sell for profit, like why not just put in shit to save costs, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, and that's that's my that's that's the biggest thing that makes me want to stop.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Well, to be fair, like it definitely it definitely is way worse than acid in terms of like health effects. Yeah. Like you sweat a lot, yeah. It could be dangerous, dehydrated, yeah. You overheat, which could be also dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

You get a heart attack, yeah. Apparently. Yeah. Heart, like cart can be cardiotoxic as well. But it's also apparently neurotoxic.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah. Well, believable. I feel like most drugs are probably neurotoxic. I don't think acid is, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Uh-huh. But maybe that's because uh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

I think acid is neuroplastic.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Uh, really?

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Well, uh, you know what, that makes sense with with it being like introduced into medical trials now. Yeah. Totally makes sense with it being neuroplastic.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

But yeah, definitely more dangerous than acid. But I heard the addictive potential is still like not high as things like alcohol, like cocaine.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah, I would be well, to be honest, I've known people that pop molly like every weekend. Which is like fucking insane to me. Yeah, yeah. These are like people that would like go to the the club to pop molly, which which is a problem. Yeah, you should you should not be pop popping molly at the club. No matter how fucking lit the club is, yeah. That's not the location to be to be popping molly, okay? Yeah. The party is not well. I don't give a fuck what kind of club you're going to. The party at the club is not wild enough for you to be popping molly. And if it is, then fuck me, man. Yeah, like uh, I I find it pretty hard to believe someone could well no, I don't find it hard to believe that someone could get addicted to Molly, but it's just like a strange situation because, well, first of all, you feel like shit after you do Molly. Like the day after fucking sucks. It's it's terrible. The sleep sucks. You kind of you kind of once once you're done with Molly, you kind of just like crash all at once. Like you feel all of a sudden you feel how tired you are, you feel how sore your legs are, how like fried your brain is, and and it all comes in at once, and you feel so tired, but you can't even sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Cause because you've been listening to loud ass music all all day and you didn't notice it because you're on Molly, but now your ears are like blasting. So yeah, because of these like horrible come downs, I guess. But I I'd be surprised, or I find it surprising that people are so willing to do this weekly. Because I should have.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Okay. So you don't have like the in you don't feel the incentive to do it like the day after.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

No, not at all. Yeah. I mean the day after I want to the next like three days after, I just want to be in bed and not do anything. Yeah, that's because like I'm I'm an old man. But for me personally, I'm I'm just probably not doing Molly again because like I don't go to festivals anymore. It's not really my thing anymore. And I don't know if I'll go to one again. Maybe I will. Probably not. But yeah, if yeah, I'm probably not doing this again. Uh the Molly. That's fair. Yeah, not only is it is it because like I'm in a I'm like interested in different stuff, I'm not really interested in going to festivals anymore, but also because it's quite dangerous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Okay. Okay. Yeah. But do you see similar to acid, you know, we talked about like the potential of being used for mental health like concerns. You're saying that MDMA makes you really affectionate, really happy.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Do you s do you also see it similarly that oh, maybe this could be helpful for trauma and like depression?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Well, maybe, but you crash so hard. You would have to fix that crash, like prevent that somehow. Maybe like a much smaller dose. Yeah. Maybe that could fix it. But okay, so if we take it for what it is, just uh the positive effects of MDMA. Hmm. I guess. But I I mean because if you're if you're doing it and you're by yourself and you like feel affectionate, what does that really accomplish?

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Yeah. Yeah, because is it also like do you think it's also introspective, like the MDMA?

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Not at all, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

You just feel good.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's introspective because like once it hits me, I'm kind of in a trance.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Ah, I see.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

I'm not thinking I'm I'm not just like pure euphoria. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Like pure euphoria. Like my body feels good, my the dancing feels good, the the wind feels good. Yeah. You know, not much just like living in the moment purely.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

And not not really much thinking at all.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Okay. Huh. That's good to know.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah. So in that sense, it it would have to be like some some really well-engineered program to to make MDMA useful in a medical sense. Yeah. It would have I think it would either have to be, from what I understand, it would have to be something sp like specific, or it would have to be done in a way that goes beyond my understanding of Molly.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Yeah. It's like a different dosage or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Okay. So from at least from your experience, you're like, eh, kind of iffy about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Okay. I I I see acid way more in that sense than I do Molly.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

That's what I get the sense too, because it sounds like acid's more like chill.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

You're kind of like Yeah, because it because you don't really the big the biggest thing is like there's like no negative after effect the day after from acid.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

You're just like no come down or no come down at all.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

You you get like an amazing sleep. Oh, do you? Really? Yeah, yeah. And and like every single time you have like a new lease on life.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Like you're you remember the thoughts that you thought the day before, how beautiful everything looked, how how pretty all the flowers were, and how great the sun felt on your skin. The beautiful trees. Like you're that's like still fresh in your mind. And it gives me such a positive outlook on life, even that, even like after having done it already.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Compared to MDMA or Molly, not at all. Like as soon as it's done with, I'm I'm thinking like, fuck, I'm so tired.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Maybe it would have been better not to do this. Okay, I get what you mean. So like the after effects are like a lot more severe than the benefits of I mean, or not the benefits, or like what type of positive feelings you've experienced during that that high, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Much more, much more negative, much more negative, you know, occurrences.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Okay. So X to M DMA.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

Check mark to LSD.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

I would say so. Just if if we could like figure out this problem of the not being able to, you know, do it, do not being able to do it for quite a while after having done acid. Yeah. If we could somehow solve that medically, then you know that would be pretty, pretty, pretty sick. I feel like at least worth trying in a bunch in a bunch of different scenarios as a treatment, different mental health issues.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Yeah. Oh, okay.

Policy Fears Meth Talk And Farewell

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Huh. So then you know, maybe in a world, let's say this is legalized. Yeah. I'm talking about acid specifically. Yeah. Do you anticipate the same problems that we've talked about with weed?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Probably not. Maybe we have like more. Well, first of all, I think a lot less people would do it, even if it was as available as well. Oh, because it's scary. Yeah. Just because like the name is scary. We should call it should be called something else. Like it should be called like I don't fucking know. So just not acid or LSD. These are like such scary names. And probably by design, you know, like whoever the fuck named us shit probably did it to scare people away from it. Yeah. You know, yeah. Even even calling something weed is like, you know, it's almost like a derogatory reference to a product. Yeah. But, anyways, yeah. So since I I think a lot less people are would be willing to do it, and even if the same amount of people were willing to do it, as we know, you can't do it nearly as much. You know, like if I if if someone decides to pick up a bunch of tabs, do one tab Friday, on Saturday, they're gonna need two tabs to feel what they did on Friday. And then on Sunday, they're gonna need like six tabs, which is like fucking ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. So I think in that sense, it's not abusable, but surely people there's gonna be some idiots like me that inevitably try to abuse it, and it'll probably take way too big of a dose at once, and that might fuck them over or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

But I do see a future since we live in a world where fucking weed is legalized, and I think weed is might be a hot take here, but I kind of feel like weed is like more harmful than acid. Yeah. And since we live in a world where where weed is legalized, I could I could see a future where acid is also decriminalized or legalized.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

I hope, I don't know. I hope it's decriminalized, not legalized. I personally think if it got legalized, it would create a bunch of problems.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

Aaron Powell, what what specifically do you see happening?

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Oh, like people just dropping acid everywhere and just acting stupid, getting into stupid shit, getting into accidents, doing stupid things, getting psychotic and everything.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

So Yeah, the DUIs would be quite fucked.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Yeah, and and like cannabis was a little different because the the underworld and the the black market was like was like insane. Yeah. But acid doesn't really have the same reputation as that.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah, there's no there's no war on acid the same way that there has been on website.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

I mean, like they stopped that in the 1960s or 70s or whatever. So decriminalization, sure, like maybe in controlled areas, environments where there's a medical purpose, sure. Yeah, but legalization, not sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

It's it's worth trying medically for sure. I think. I think it's worth trying.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

You know, I actually think that's yeah, those are those are really the big things we wanted to talk about, mainly because we had personal experiences with it. You know, we were thinking, oh, maybe we'll think we maybe we'll talk about things like meth.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Actually, can we talk a little bit about meth?

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Why did you have you tried meth too?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

I've never tried meth, but I've been re-watching Breaking Bad lately. Yeah. So I watched Breaking Bad like years ago, tons of years ago, but I I didn't give it like a fair shot. I did so I've been re-watching it and meth looks pretty fucking intense. Yes. Yeah. I've I've heard in my life, I'm sure you have as well. Uh, you know, as kids we were told never meth.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Everything else is like maybe you can there's like nuance to it, but never meth. And I've I've never tried it, and I'm gonna live by that never met never once. Because yeah, it just looks too dangerous. And in I don't know if it is like it is in the show, but that's too spooky for me to ever get involved with.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Yeah, never ever do meth. That's just horrible.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Yeah, that's all I have to say about meth. Fuck math. Yeah, fuck math. And and also be really informed before you make any big decisions like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

No, I agree. But that's it for our first mini-series. We gave it a go. I think I mean I like it. It gives us more of a structure, gives us a little bit more kind of depth into what we talk about.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

For our next series, we're gonna actually I don't want to give it away. Yeah. But I think I think it'll be pretty interesting. So I hope I hope you folks tune in because we'll be continuing with these like three, four episodes mini-series.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

Yeah, for the foreseeable future at least. But thank you guys so much for listening. This concludes our drugs mini-series. Really fun for us. Hope it was fun for listening to you guys as well. And actually, I have a question for you. Are we Tuesdays and Thursdays now?

unknown 40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

So that's the schedule.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Okay, cool. Tuesdays and Thursdays is when our episodes are gonna be coming out. But any final thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 40:07

No, I think that's everything. I hope people still keep on tuning in. I think our last episode didn't do too well.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

So it is where it is. We've got a couple new listeners, and we do notice, so thank you guys so much for listening. But yeah, this has been this week's episode of Catch Up with Kyle Cohen. Thank you guys so much for watching or listening, and we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Peace.