ABC 2 | Free Magic and Hard Politics

In this episode, we dig into Coco’s apprentice test and why the show’s attention to tools and technique makes the magic feel tangible. From there, we spiral into big worldbuilding questions. If magic is basically ink plus drawing skill, is it too “free”? Should there be an equivalent exchange, a personal cost, or a clearer drawback? And when the Brim Hat Society shows up calling Coco their “hope,” we start throwing out theories about what they actually want and whether the “villains” are more nuanced than they look.

Then we switch gears to Nippon Sangoku episodes 3 and 4, where time skips rocket the story forward into military roles, court factions, and a puppet emperor who can’t hold the room. We debate the underwhelming “get the general to his knees” payoff, talk through a brutal justice scene that actually lands, and unpack the power plays around “Fatso,” plus the rising threat from Sei and its tiger-themed leader. We also get into the show’s distinct art style, jazz touches, and why the absurdist humor sometimes undercuts the stakes.

Transcript

Anime Book Club Kickoff

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of Catch Up with Kai and Cohen. This is Kai here.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

This is Cohen.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Today we're back with our anime book club going on to episode three and four of Nippun Sangoku and Witch Hat Atelier. Did you watch the episodes? I did indeed. What did you think?

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Overall? For both?

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Yeah, we'll go into the bottom.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Or just like starting thoughts, you know?

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Yeah. I mean, a bit slower, but completely make sense though. I mean, we're getting into the the beefy chunks of the of the show, so it makes sense. But yeah, the few observations that I'll talk about overall enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Yeah, me too. So last episode, first we'll talk about we'll continue to talk about Witch Hat first, followed by Nippon Sangoku.

Coco’s Apprentice Test Begins

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Last episode was Keefri is going on his journey for a couple days, and Coco is left under the watch of Egot.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

The first episode starts, or this episode starts, with Agot ushering Coco into beginning to take her her test to be uh Keefri's uh apprentice. And first of all, as soon as this uh episode started out, I thought the animation for this anime is actually so damn crisp. It's it's so beautiful. Which part? Yeah, right from episode three. Yeah, right from the beginning, I thought it was so nice, so so peaceful, which had itself it is just beautiful. The world is beautiful, the animation is beautiful, and already I'm seeing this anime has like the the little things, the little attention to detail that makes me enjoy an anime so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Do you have an uh example in mind?

SPEAKER_02 1:35

I'm sure in the beginning, when actually I don't have a concrete example, but I remember there's like some scene where oh, right, during the tests when Coco is walking through the forest towards the uh like that world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When she enters the portal to take the test, and she's walking through that world, and there's some really nice music playing, and there's that little tiny uh the tiny little white the caterpillar thing. Yeah, she meets that thing, it is so cute. Yeah, just it just that starting scene I thought was so chill, so calm.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, I like the world that that and the door, very magical, very whimsical.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

This is exactly the kind of show that I need right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

It's like very light so far in episode three, very lighthearted, very playful, which is Coco's kind of character. To be fair, I'm not sure how much I I love it. Yeah, like I mean, it makes sense though. Like, she's she's a she's a kid, so it completely makes sense. She's like 12 years old or something, yeah, and she doesn't know anything about magic, technically. So yeah, I get it. I just hope that they don't take it up a notch, and then at that point, I'd be like, okay, maybe maybe it's too much. Because and then I'll just get her into a lot of troubles like constantly. But so far, I think the level of how it is, it's okay. But yeah, the animation very crisp in this world. The animators and the authors portray um, like actually completely new world from where they were before,

Tools, Craft, And Drawing Magic

SPEAKER_01 3:00

right? Like even in that atelier or where she was living with her mom.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Yeah. Yeah. What what is an atelier? I have no idea. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

We should look it up at some point. But, anyways. But one thing that really stood out for me this episode, or one thing I loved about this episode, is you know how in episode one we get that artistry of her tailorship. We see that again in episode three, when she uses that rock to draw the magic circle instead of the traditional ink. I thought that was amazing. Very the level of concentration once again, once again, you see here.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

I I really like that scene too, because honestly, pretty realistic. This girl that grew up using a specific tool all of a sudden has to switch to another tool.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah. Um yeah, that is very realistic. Because we talked about it previously, and I I said I don't want her to just become so skillful at this new magic drawing thing just because she was good at the Taylor thing. So I I like that how they continued on with the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

And speaking from experience, I'm gonna embarrass myself a little bit here. But as I've been a prolific gamer my entire life, my tool of choice is the computer mouse. And I will say, when I don't have well, I don't really compare to the game anymore, but when I used to, I would have to have my specific computer mouse with me to to play to my level. And if I didn't have my mouse with me, I'd it's a completely different ball game.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, that's a that's a good analogy.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yeah, so this this was something that I was like, yeah, this is this is facts. You know, you need you need your tools to perform to your level. So I thought that was a great little detail.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

My question was, you know how she drew that magic circle on the was it like uh what what was it which was the it was the mast of the boat. Yes, yeah. So then if she can do that, can she just not draw any other magic circle with that tool that she used? The the rock thing?

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Yeah, yeah, she could, but I think it's probably just like probably not like a comfortable or like efficient way to do it, maybe because she's like using like a uh like a rock. The ink was like diluted because yeah, it's spilled her. I don't know, maybe she actually will end up doing that because later on, so skipping ahead a little bit, she goes to that the magic shop to get a new to get to get like her new wand.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

So maybe she will end up picking up something like something like that. Yeah, the the stone that she uses to to carve things out.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Yeah, I really like Coco's character being so pure and so much of curiosity with magic. Even after she drew that magic circle, and then things kind of worked out, although there was still that aloofness. I thought that was really cute and charming.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Coco's a great kid. I love seeing Coco on screen on screen. She's so sweet, she's so well-mannered, and the complete opposite, her foil, I suppose, and Agot, who is clearly quite troubled, extremely harsh, and very juvenile in her thinking, which in some ways is surprising, but in some ways not so much. Not so much because Agot is clearly a child, yeah, just like all the other little witches around her. They're all they're all children, so this kind of juvenile thinking makes sense. But then since they these witches have clearly had a bit of a unique life, uh, specifically Agat seems like a little bit more hardened than most people her age.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah, I wonder I think we said it before, but I wonder if something traumatic happened to her.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Oh, yeah, something traumatic definitely happened.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

She calls Coco like ordinary people, right? Or something like that. Did she? Like a different name, almost like Muggles in Harry Potter.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Really? I didn't quite catch that. But it's funny that you bring that up because uh have you noticed how like every time Coco goes somewhere, everyone knows who she is, kind of like Harry Potter.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

I was actually gonna say make that exact same comment,

Agott’s Hostility And Kids Under Stress

SPEAKER_01 6:40

like Voldemort, like you know, the one who should not be named, yeah. Harry Potter, and even the magic pawn shop. Do you remember the first movie where um he was getting his wand?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Yeah, he was like picking up his broomstick on his wand.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, I thought it reminded me of that so much, which is which is cute. Um yeah, I really like that scene. But overall, then the third episode, we also see that Key Free goes to the somewhere, like some witch kind of fucking or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it was like some storage area where they keep a bunch of magic witch tools or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

And then we get a little bit of more insight about who he's chasing after, the one who gave Coco this this book and the income pen and everything.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

So it's the the brim hat society or something like that. Something like that. Where it says the mages who got the Yankee with no brim. Yeah, I I what do you think of this new organization? What do you have any thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Well, we know nothing about it, to be honest. I think like even episode four, they don't really go into too much detail. We just know that they're collective. They have kind of sick outfits, to be fair.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

Yeah, unique outfits. Yeah. Like some of the some of those brims look pretty sweet. Uh look a lot more like classical witches, you know. Yeah. I remember mentioning in the first episode uh kefir look looked kind of, you know, unassuming not some not so badass, but just like a like a party dunce hat, which had, you know, it's just like a pointy cap without any kind of brim. And then these older forbidden brimmed witches have like some cool ass hats that look a lot more, you know, classically fantastical.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah, which is a good point you raised. Yeah, if I think of a witch, I would think more like the brim hat society, not fucking key free. Yeah, you know what I mean? But yeah, I thought that ending scene in the third episode where that lad presumed villain is in this new world and he and they were there this entire time while Coco was doing the test. Yeah, I think that was a really good transition to the fourth episode of what happens later on.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Couple more things from episode three. Egot fucking sucks. Egoth's a constant jerk.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Even episode three, you think?

SPEAKER_02 8:37

I think so. I mean, just you know, ever after we see Coco go into the trial by herself, and as she's coming out, everyone, everyone other than Agot was so worried about Coco saying she could have been seriously hurt. And we could see that she really could have been seriously hurt considering she was like flying around as someone who's quite the newbie at magic. Like she could have she could have easily fucked something up and then fallen to her death. And that was all Agot, you know. And what sucks is Agat doesn't fucking learn her lesson. Even from this experience, it it's like she's driven to be shittier, you know, rather than just accepting Coco. She's dead set on excluding her. Which is so disappointing to me. I mean, clearly Agot has a troubled past. It would it would be pretty almost impossible to imagine someone being so harsh and critical and like mean for no reason. I mean, she is just a kid, and sometimes kids are well, actually, no, I don't think sometimes kids are just like that. I think there's like almost always a reason, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

You think so?

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Well, actually, there's like exceptions, you know. Yeah, there's anomalies, but that's for the for the most part is we'll see a minority, right? And and since this is a sh this is uh a story, it would make sense for Egat to have like some motivation behind her harsh attitude.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Definitely. I mean, the other two, I don't really get a sense yet of I mean they're nice anyways, in at least in episode three. Yeah, yeah, but so far I don't really get a big back story from from the other two.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Yeah, we haven't we haven't really explored the other two much. Probably in future episodes, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Have you watched um the anime Anohana?

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Anohana. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Okay, because the blue haired girl in Witch Hat reminds me of the the main character.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

So I think I also thought she looked familiar, but irrelevant, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

But yeah. But yeah, I think episode three for me was more visually astonishing.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Yeah, and also the music I thought was fantastic in episode three.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah. Speaking of music, I like the opening more now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little bit more catchy, yeah, it's growing on me more.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

That might have been, you know what, that might have been because I don't think in episode one and two, even though we had the intro, there was no intro sequence, there was no like visuals, but in episode three, there was.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

So maybe that helped too. Enjoy it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

I like it more. Um, I actually like the ending more too. So we'll see how it is.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Oh, yeah. So another thing in episode three, which is spoilers, a bit of a contrast to episode four, is I thought in in episode three, I had the thought that I'm really glad that Coco has these new friends speaking about Powerpuff Girls, the two, yeah, not Eggot, but the other two. Yeah, I was really glad that Coco has these new friends that are like accepting and nice to her and seem to care about her. Because once Coco makes it back from the portal, everyone's like proud of her, and they're like so glad that she's safe and she made it. Uh so I thought that was pretty nice in episode three.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

But this doesn't hold out for long.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, I should go down in episode four.

Brim Hat Society Returns

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Yeah, once we move to episode four, the brim hat witches make a return. And they start the one specific witch seems to be not sure exactly, but it seems to be the same witch that originally gave Coco her wand and ink and hat.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Yeah, they said specifically about Coco that she is their hope, which I wonder like what does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Do you think it's it's because like do you think that she is from like a special bloodline, maybe? Like her dad is a special bloodline, so she has like some innate, intense, immense talent that could change the world. Or do you hope the direction to not go that way? Like a typical overpowered hidden talent shown in trope.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

I don't know which direction I want it to go, but I think there's gotta be more to magic than what they've told us so far. Like, I I just have a hard time believing that it's just ink and everyone can do it, and everyone's like the exact same at it.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Because that means like right now, the based on what we know, aptitude and music of magic is purely based on drawing skills.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, if you just had like some tools, like if you had like a compass with you or like a protractor, like a ruler, you bring it out. Like you you'd be, are you just gonna be the best mage ever? Because we also see in I think in episode four, we see these mages carry these notepads that basically have like these preloaded like magic on them for them to be able to quickly use in uh you know sticky situations. So if you're like if if you're using a compass or a protractor or like rulers to just draw a bunch of magic on these notepads, then I mean there's not there's not a whole lot of skill left over here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Or or I guess um the way how you draw the lines, it corresponds to how the magic works. So there's a lot more critical thinking behind it.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

So I just were using those tools to make perfect circles.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

No, no, no, but I meant like, you know how the lines impact the direction of magic that's produced, like how it's it's used. Like so I I get a sense that there's a level of like a level of critical thinking that needs to be applied on how it should be drawn, which sure that means so then that means if you're just critically smart and if you're good at drawing, are you good at magic? Because for like in other shows, maybe you know, you have an immense amount of mana. Like that's a good thing. So that's that's like an innate talent, right? Yeah. Yeah, I'm wondering if that's something I want to see or if I'm okay with how it is as things are with the magic.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

I just want there to be more a bit more of a drawback for the magic. Drawback, okay. Like what drawback? Like more more than just the ink. I want

Magic Rules And The Need For Drawbacks

SPEAKER_02 14:10

there to be an effect on I on the person. You know, I I don't particularly like how magic is just like literally free. Like there, there's like no like equivalent exchange, I guess. You know, you can like make make matter out of nothing pretty pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah, fuck yeah. That concept is is sick as fuck. Yeah, and I'll come back.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

And I really like that because you know it it's it like loosely follows physics, you know, the physics of our world. Yeah. Where matter can't be created or destroyed and energy transfer and stuff like that. And I c I kind of like when things like that make sense in anime. And right now the the magic doesn't totally make sense. Just having this like magical ink. It's an explanation, but it's not or it's uh it's a reason, it's not so much an explanation. That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, I know like the scene where they're introducing all the elements though in the very beginning. It was like the avatar.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, you got fire, water, wind, and earth. And yeah, so we find out the source of of the ink is just that dead silverwood tree. And supposedly it's the only kind of tree that supplies ink to the world. So at least it's not incredibly abundant. And then we see the creepy witch kind of luring Coco, and then Coco chases after her. The Powerpuff girls come with Coco, and then they get teleported into a completely different city, and a fucking dragon appears out of nowhere to confront the our squad. They get out of it, they use some they use some magic. What what did you think of that encounter first of all?

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Well, number one, like what's the motive there? You know what I mean? Like, was the dragon summoned just because other the other kids were there? Like if Coco would have been there by herself, would the witch still have summoned the dragon? Oh, great point.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Yeah, because it's not like the dragon, because

Dragon Encounter And Friendship Fallout

SPEAKER_02 15:54

it's not like the witch wanted to kill Coco.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Because the witch said, Oh, you brought like other guests, but I guess that's fine. So I wonder, yeah, if the dragon was only summoned because they wanted to get rid of the other children.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

And you know the the evil witch so far hasn't even tried to like hasn't actually tried to like hurt them.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

What about the dragon?

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Because like who knows if the dragon is actually trying to hurt them or just like intimidate them.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

I think so, because the dragon was chasing that that cloak that flew off, remember?

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah, but it but even with the cloak, it didn't like swipe at the cloak or like bite the cloak or like breathe fire at the cloak. Even at the girls, it was just kind of just like staring at them, you know, until they backed away and then like chasing for a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Not very well, because they lost them in a maze, even though the dragon's like taller than the maze.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

So I I got a feeling that maybe this is maybe the well, I mean, probably the brim hat society isn't as bad as we thought.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah, I mean, I feel like they would be they're gonna be introduced as a more of a nuanced group, you know what I mean? They probably have their own ideals and their own justifications.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

But I thought, you know, the part this episode did a decent job at showing human nature, you know, because especially as children, because uh that the pink the pink hair, I think, the red hair, you know, the part she definitely looked at me as I was responsible for this.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

I think if I was like 10 years old, shit was going down, and I ended up in the situation because I was literally chasing after this friend, I would automatically in my mind think, yeah, this was your fucking fault. You would crush out as a kid, as a kid, you know what I mean? Yeah, don't you think so? Like your life is in danger, and you it's because you chase someone and you're you're only 10 years old, or 12, I guess, but he I think I think it's reasonable for them to think that way. Like Aegot was definitely being way too much, yeah. But I think the reaction of of it general, I I understand.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

I also understand it, and I mean Tetya is just uh the pink-haired girl, she's she's just a kid, uh, you know, so it's like it happens. I it it was kind of a crushing moment. You could feel how bad that felt for Coco. So it was really sad, but yeah, quite human.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

To be honest, I thought Coco would like break down even more. Like I thought she'd be like go on her knees, she'd sob and cry.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

But she just said, What do I do, Mr. Keefry?

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Dude, that's that's like literally like the the moment Sasuke leaves the hidden leaf village, you know?

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Wait, what?

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Like that moment is what happened to Coco there. That's when Sasuke says, Yo, fuck this shit. I'm out, I'm nothing like you, uh and goes to the evil order.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Bro, what? I don't I don't get that analogy at all.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

I could totally see that happening there, you know. With where Coco, she just feels betrayed by the people, the only people that she thought she had. You know, she doesn't have anyone else in this world. Her mom's gone, Kifre's not there, these are her only friends. And but I think that level of betrayal is completely different.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Like Sasuke.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Oh, yeah, I'm just making a joke. Okay, I'm mostly just making a joke. But yeah, it was a it was a crushing moment, and I felt so bad for Coco there.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

And do you think the the reaction was justified? Minus that justified? Not justified, I guess. Understandable is the better way.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

It's understandable, of course, because because Tetya is a kid.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

But then you see the the other girl, the blue hair girl, I forgot her name. She doesn't have that kind of reaction, she kind of just stays focused, stays on touch. That's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

I mean, no, but then maybe there's something wrong with her not being able to react that way.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

I guess I mean everyone's different. Yeah. Yeah, and then Agot crashes out, and it was not only that Tetya kind of blamed, or like unintentionally or inadvertently, subtly blamed Coco for the predicament that they're in, but it's when Eggot has that huge crash out, and the other two girls don't stand up for Coco at all. And that that especially hurt. And it was it was so sad to see Coco just not know what to do there, you know. And because none of this is really her fault. No, I agree. Yeah, it is not her fault. I think it's so plain to see she's being you know, like the guy that's like causing all this, the evil witch is right in front of you. You know, you don't gotta be blaming Coco. You you have the person rather than you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

I don't think it's anyone's like any of the kids' fault. Yeah. Minus maybe a guy, but anyways, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Yeah, and Coco doesn't know what to do, and then luckily keefree gets led by the little white caterpillar, the brush buddy. Yeah. And he's on his way to save the day.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

And that's where the episode ends.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

And um, was there no trailer? Trailer? Like for the next episode?

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Oh no, no. So far there hasn't been any of that. That's what I thought. Which I like. Yeah. I much prefer that.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah. Like the random ass spoilers. What do you think is gonna happen?

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Where we go from

Predictions And Ratings For Witch Hat

SPEAKER_02 20:44

here. Hmm. I almost want to say like Coco just goes to the dark side. Like almost, man. I know she wouldn't. She seems like too good of a kid for that to happen. And the relationship with Keefri is like too good for that to happen right now. But somewhere down the road, maybe I mean, maybe I could see, you know what? I could see maybe A god going over to the dark side.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Oh, yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. But maybe that's too obvious. No, she definitely will, I feel like. You think so? Yeah. Yeah. Because especially if it's a group who's so high-hold about magic and really wants to ostracize or like make the magic stuff secure, I feel like Agar would definitely go over to the dark side.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah, especially if something like Egoth sees, because right now I think the social hierarchy in the Atelier, the school, is like Agott's at the top. She's like the strongest mage or whatever. And maybe if Coco shows her up and Keefri starts preferring Coco to Egoth, maybe that will cause some turmoil within Egot.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

I think in Death Point will.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Yeah. And that might lead Eggot to going over to the dark side.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah. So overall, what would you rate those two episodes?

SPEAKER_02 21:55

I really enjoyed these two episodes. I think I forgot what I gave the last one, but

SPEAKER_01 22:00

But I think this one I gave like I think you gave like an eight point five or an eight last time.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Yeah, I think I gotta s stick with an eight point five.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

I give it like an eight. I gave I think I gave it a six or seven last time. Really? No, no, I give it a seven last time, but I give it an eight now. Okay. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Nice. Things are looking up. I mean, the little things are really enjoyable in Witch Hat to me. The little things like the music, the the soundtracks that go on during just chill average moments, the the art style, the the goofy little things that happened. The comedy in Witch Hat has actually been landing a lot for me. Really? Um yeah. A lot of the funny m funny stuff that happens in Witch Hat, I end up finding them actually funny.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Which is great. Yeah. I'm enjoying Witch Hat. Things like little things like uh Coco was like learning to fly and learning to do magic and messing up.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yeah, it's very still playful and light, which I enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Okay.

Nippon Sangoku Time Skips And Roles

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Uh should we move on to Nipponsangoku?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed these episodes a little bit less than the first two.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Really? Yeah. What about you? I think I enjoyed them about the same.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Okay. I say that because the pacing's so fast.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

It is quite fast.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

They skipped years and years.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had two three-year time skips within these two episodes. So six years have progressed.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Like I just, I mean, like I wish they showed his progress.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Six years, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

And to and just to preface, the basically the they've advanced into their own roles with the main character being like the strategist, and then the other guy is supposed to be like this martial art genius, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

Yeah. So one guy ends up being the administrator of arms or something like that. And then Outeru ends up being the Border Patrol administrator or something like that. Yeah. So two very different roles. Outeru seems to be taking on an actual administrative role where he uh kind of governs over the towns that he visits a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

And in contrast, the other guy, I don't remember his name. Do you remember? No, I don't. Yeah, I don't remember the other guy's name. But the other guy, we actually don't see a whole lot of what he's doing, but it seems like he's in charge of like arms, like weapons and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

With episode three, I was a little bit disappointed by what it took to just bend his knees. Like, first of all, the long-haired guy just fucking kicked him and just went on his knees. I'm like, okay. Like you couldn't bend down when other people tried to squish you against your shoulders, but you fall on your knees when you get kicked. So it's like, okay, like whatever. The main character's plot. I mean, like, that wasn't it wasn't bad. It wasn't horrible. Like, he he brings up this like agriculture, cultural plan that I think has a pretty significant, powerful role throughout the entire series because they mentioned it multiple times throughout the show. Yeah. But anyways, yeah, they're amazed. But then that that level of amazement is also kind of like yes, like they're just so shook. They don't really explain it too too much.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Yeah. But the the big thing for me was like, I don't know if you remember, but le after the first two episodes, we were pretty enthralled with what would happen next. Like I couldn't figure it out. How are these guys gonna get the

The General Kneels And It Falls Flat

SPEAKER_02 24:55

general onto his knees?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

And I had I didn't really have like any any like huge expectations, but I definitely thought it would be something that would surprise me.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah, me too. But I was not surprised.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Yeah, my expectations were not subverted at all with the general being brought to his knees by either character. I thought the first one with the sword and then getting like kicked, I thought that was incredibly stupid. Yeah, like that was so terrible. This guy that's supposed to be like so fucking strong that multiple guys can't push him down to his knees. He's so quick that he can stop, presumably, an incredibly sharp sword with like his water bottle, like the wooden water bottle thing that he had in his hand. He can stop a sword with that, but then he gets like Charlie Horst and he's he's done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Uh yeah, that's okay. And then same with Auteru, his scene where he presents his life's work, I guess, of this agricultural plan. And I think the intention is for this to be like, well, yeah, clearly the intent is for this to be like a really amazing scene where Auteru is like so down for like self-sacrifice for the greater good, so that the ultimate plan of Japan's reunification and revival becomes true, you know. And he's willing to, he doesn't want any personal glory for that.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

But it just doesn't come across as like a very monumental or like sick or cool scene.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Yeah, like not only is the pacing fast, which I think adds on to this, but the super like the the way they convey their wordens, like their intent. It's a bit superficial that I felt. Didn't really impact me as hard.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

It's lacking emotion a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not as like powerful as the first episode for me personally. I I mean I still I I still like the characters, like the kind of the relationship between the main character and this and his and his buddy. They're kind of different. The other guy's a narcissist, and the main character here is supposedly kind of doing it out of his own conviction, which we can see as he carries out his like duties as this

Justice Served In The Border Town

SPEAKER_01 27:02

military officer, like even executing people who did wrong. But what what do you even think about that? Like, do you think that was right?

SPEAKER_02 27:08

When he goes to the border town and the the guy get and uh out there executes the guy? Yeah, like absolute justice. Oh yeah, totally, man. I mean, uh that the person that was being tried was a horrible guy. He he raped someone, he murdered a family of three.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

I liked it because he's not corrupt. Yeah. He's still holding by his values. He's not being swayed by government pigs.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Not only that, that person was a personal friend of Altero's.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah. Yeah. So it must have been hard now for the the main character. I I don't know if it was because maybe they did it on purpose actually, because this was in in the winter, right? And there was a scene where he was shaking when I think he was shaking when the the guy was being executed. Maybe he was that shaking meant he was this was hard for him, or maybe he was so cold, but however we would want to want to interpret. But anyways, yeah, I I I did like the scene.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Yeah, I thought I thought it was great. Someone like that is unforgivable. And he met his end, which was great. Some justice, thankfully.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

What do you think about that interaction with an emperor who was like a little bitch? And then there's the fatso who was who's basically the top dog there, you know what I mean? Like the emperor's obviously a puppet.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah, the emperor seems like a massive coward. Are you talking about that the first meeting we have where all the soldiers are like in the in the hall?

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, I think the whole point of that argument was to make the other other nation like forfeit or something, like surrender.

Puppet Emperor And Fatso’s Power

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah. Allegedly. Yeah, and the and the um general saying is saying like please reconsider, blah blah blah. And there's like whole there's obviously two different factions, one's like the Fatso faction and one's the general faction, and you can see like the conflict and the animosity between the two. And overall, there's the puppet emperor who's really not doing anything. What'd you think about that scene?

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Also, first of all, I'm like confused how Fatso is is like so powerful in the first place. Well, Fatso's daughter is yeah, yeah, I understand that, but beyond that, there's like the other general Ri Ryumon, I think. Yeah, yeah, and surely he has a massive faction in the army. And I'm it's gotta be comparable to Fatso's army, whatever faction that Fatso has in the army. And I'm just so surprised that Fatso is able to have so much control over the emperor, and like no one's really sticking it to him, you know. Yeah, like do you think Fatso is actually smart, or do you think he is like so I I'm I'm not totally sure about this guy because he seems aware, you know. He like on the surface, obviously he looks like a fucking idiot, but we know he's not completely an idiot, yeah, but he seems almost like strategically inept as as if he's like trying to ruin the the nation of Yamato, one of the one of the three nations, the one that he's in, from within, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because his daughter is which is like funny, his like very old daughter. I don't know if you caught that in the scene with like the marriage with the with the emperor. The emperor was like a little boy, and Fatso's daughter was like a grown-ass woman already. Yeah. The wife of the emperor is much older than the emperor himself. But it seems like Fatso's trying to like destroy Yamato from then, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense because his daughter isn't married to the current emperor. So I mean he already has like total control over Yamato basically. So why would why exactly would he be trying to fuck over this country?

SPEAKER_01 30:32

He just reminds me of Frieza. Really? Yeah, from Dragon Ball. Like, no, like not his intentions, but like he's like up to the cruelty? Yeah, and like he's like kind of like nonchalant. You know, Frieza's like a fucking dick, and he's also nonchalant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

And then so we get an introduction to the the new nation, which Fatzel wants to surrender, and which is they're called Sei, I think. Yeah. And we see exactly as General Ryumon feared that there would be dictatorial uprising in Say. And that's exactly what happens.

Sei’s Rise And War Mind Games

SPEAKER_01 31:05

And so yeah, and this is where um I thought, like, wow, agriculture is such a big thing. Yeah. The main character made a very good, I guess, genius opposition. Because even in Say, they emphasize that. And that's really how the face tat girl caught Tiger. They moved the hearts of the people. She introduced some strategies. I think they call her dictator as well. But she seems to get a lot of support.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Yeah, it seems like she's like right from the start, she seems like quite similar to Outeru in her thinking. Do you think she's fake? I don't know. I mean, she seems altruistic just like Auteru.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

But do you think that's fake? You know, you know how like she's like handing out stuff to the people, she's acting all cutesy and stuff like that. But she's also kind of a badass. So I wonder, like, is that a front for the in front of the people, you think?

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Seems genuine so far, judging by the other people's comments on her. Like the those close to her have not yet given any kind of hint that she's fake, giving her praise like her dad, you know, like that one general that she ended up having executed.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Which I actually like that general. Yeah, me too. Because uh he like stood back by his values. He's like, Yeah, I I did what I thought was right for the nation.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Which I completely respected.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

There was a great line by him. He didn't like he wasn't a coward. Yeah. There was there was one great line by him where he says, whether or not I was a traitor is for future historians to decide. I thought that was a fucking banger. Great line. And he takes his death graciously, sticks to his morals, and goes down like a badass. But yeah, so now we have this setup where the Sei Nation is starting to build up their power. They've had, I think one month has passed since the Tiger Lady has been in charge.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

And now we are moving towards what seems to be a war between Yamato and Sai with I think Sei uh the Say Nation has sent like a an envoy to pretend like they surrendered, right? Yeah. So gonna be interesting to see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Do you think this will be like a battle of mind games between

Tone Whiplash, Art Style, And Jazz

SPEAKER_01 33:10

face tat and main character?

SPEAKER_02 33:12

So here's my running theory. I think Fatso is plotting with the third nation, not Yamato or Say, allowing Yamato and Say to weaken each other through war, and uh and then allowed the third nation to sweep in and take over everything. And I think that's who Fatso might be aligned with.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Damn, that's a good move, actually. You think so? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Seems difficult though. Like, how how does he get there without someone stopping him?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Well he's slimy though, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Yeah, but people are already like suspicious of him, like right now, you know? Yeah, and he's gotta go through so many more steps to get everything else to work out.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

I just suspect and I hope that the main character will have a huge role in this upcoming thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Yeah, yeah, he he inevitably will, I think. Yeah, I I want him to shine a little bit more, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, maybe that's like a shonen in me that just wants like such a huge main character boost, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Yeah, well, cause like we want him to be the one to deliver the come up ins, you know? Because like those those first few episodes hurt, you know. And um, yeah, I I can't let that go. I I really hope by the end of the show, Auteru gets to to murder Fatso, you know, brutally. And I I won't settle for anything less. Anything less won't satisfy me. Actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

That's probably how it's gonna end up though. Like he's definitely gonna end up murdering Fatso. I really hope so.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

One gripe I have about uh Nippon Sangoku so far is earlier I mentioned the comedy bits in Witch Hat have been landing pretty well with me. Yeah. The comedy bits in Nipponsangaku, not so much.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

I actually like it because it's awkward. Yeah. It's like it's it's like you can tell it's like forced.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Which I actually really like kind of.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

There's a lot of absurdist humor in Nippon Sangaku. It's like a little unsett and unsettling. Yeah. You know, and you know, absurdist humor is actually pretty it's it's kind of um one of the one of the pillars of our generation.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Absurdist humor is like basically where the birth of memes comes from. And there's a a ton of that in this show, and it makes it kind of hard for me to take the serious moment seriously and I say find comedy in the comedic moments because there is so much blending, you know, like some guys getting fucking torn apart, and then they're it's like presented comedically, yeah. You know, and and that happens so many times where like people are just getting the head sliced, like in for example, in the room with the emperor, where all those people get like their heads sliced off, and it's like so comical, and yeah, part of me thinks like this is supposed to be funny, but it's just not aligned with me.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Yeah, I I I get that. Yeah, because the only serious part I think I could I could see was well when Yumon bowed his head down to the emperor to rethink it, and then when the main character also went like kind of crazy after they killed his wife, yeah. Other than that, there's just a lot of comedy or forced comedy, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Like absurd comedy, you know, like situationally it's like what the fuck is going on?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I still really like the animation though. I think the art's great. I just love their close face shot, the face-up shots, like the eyes and everything. I think it's super cool. Yeah, anime is really distinct. I really like the word effects also that's popped up and popping on here and there. I really like the textures as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

That kind of slaps it slapped on the entire the frame whenever someone's thinking about something. I really like that. And then they always mix in like jazz here and there, which I'm a huge big fan of.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Me too. Yeah. I really like the the world that's uh the world of Nippon Sangrapu. Yeah. Even though I'm not such a huge fan of the well, actually, not to downplay my enjoyment, I am a I am a fan so far of what's going on. I specifically like the the setting the most so far, and I think there's so many places that this could go. And I think the story can be really, really rich. So I'm still looking forward to future episodes.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Me too. Yeah. I think, yeah. Uh actually, I don't know. I think world building-wise, it was decent.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Yeah. I think it's good enough for me to for me right now. Yeah, me too. You know, there's there's like enough moving parts right now. We have the the evil faction with the fat hood doing his stuff, General Ryuman trying to do his stuff. Outeru has his own goals, and his friend has his own goals, and now we have this new female dictator in Say, and we have yet to meet the uh characters of The Last Nation, which I don't remember the name of.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Yeah, me neither. But yeah, I think that's like enough.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Almost not quite, but almost like an ensemble cast. Not quite though.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Not yet, but it but I could see it getting there.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

So we'll see what happens. Yeah. Um, but I I like these two episodes less than Witch Hat this time.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 37:49

I give it like a solid seven out of ten. Yeah, I also like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

I think I also like these two episodes less than Witch Hat, and I also like these two episodes less than the first two episodes. Oh, really? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, there was I felt like well, there was definitely more felt like there was more at stake because things were lost in those initial episodes. And yeah, I haven't felt that same amount of tension. You know what it is? It almost it almost feels like Auteru had something so horrible happen to him at the very beginning, but it almost feels like nothing bad's really gonna happen to him anymore.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Oh, it's just because he already got the worst that could ever happen.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Yeah, and like three year, like we just had this three-year time skip, and it looks like nothing fucking bad happened. Bro, it's just like on on plan, things are going well, you know. And I think that's what's that's what I'm struggling with right now. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, like life's a little too easy for Alteru right now. Okay, yeah. Yeah, not lots of adversities. But I mean, that's okay though. We're only episode four.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah, we'll see, we'll see more.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Because there's a there's a lot more going on. This isn't just the story of Alteru. Compared to Witch Hat, it seems like it is for the most part the story of Coco.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yes,

Final Thoughts And Next Week Tease

SPEAKER_01 38:55

yeah, I agree. Yeah. So we'll watch episode five and six, and then we'll review next week. But yeah, I think I'm pretty excited to what's the coming out. I'm more excited for Witch Hat, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

I just want to see like what's gonna go down between Keefry and the or even Coco and with the bad witch, or presumed bad witch. We'll see how it is.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

Yeah, and didn't mention this before about Witch Hat, but I just remembered there was that one scene with you know the shoes, the ink wears off the shoes. Yeah, and Coco comes really close to drawing on her her body.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Oh yeah, oh man, that's a good moment, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Yeah, and that's that's that's forbidden, right? Yeah, yeah, that's forbidden. And I think that's like some crazy foreshadowing. That shit's definitely gonna happen. I wonder if maybe she has she has a special body that she can draw for pit is an actual gold. Oh, maybe. Oh, dude, that's a great guess. Yeah, why else would the brim hat fucking motherfuckers be afraid? Yeah, you know, that's a that's a great guess.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

She is the fucking canvas.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Yeah, and then maybe that's why her her mom didn't want her to be a uh mage.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

You know, I'm excited. We'll see. Yeah. Well, thanks for joining in today with catch up and kind of calling. Tune in for next week. We'll talk about episode five and six, and we've we'll talk about her reviews. Hopefully, we see some big changes in the in these upcoming episodes in terms of the plot and even the animation. So tune in and we'll talk to you then. Peace.