Why Caribbean Families Avoid Mental Health | Rebecca Singh, LMHC | KIC Back Episode 14

The Mental Health Conversation Caribbean Families Have Avoidided | Rebecca Singh, LMHC | KIC Back Podcast Episode 14

In many Caribbean families, mental health is only discussed when someone reaches a breaking point.

But therapy should not begin during the emotional equivalent of a heart attack.

In Episode 14 of the KIC Back Podcast, Licensed Mental Health Counselor Rebecca Singh joins us for an honest conversation about anxiety, depression, trauma, suicidal ideation, family pressure, and the emotional patterns that are often passed from one generation to the next.

Rebecca explains how children can absorb the fears and anxieties they witness at home, why many people struggle to recognize their own emotional distress, and how Caribbean culture can sometimes encourage people to remain silent rather than seek support.

We also discuss what it means to truly be present for someone experiencing suicidal thoughts, why empathy and human connection matter, and how therapy can help people understand themselves before they reach a crisis.

This conversation is not about blaming our parents or rejecting our culture.

It is about recognizing what shaped us, deciding what should continue, and having the courage to heal what should not.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why Caribbean families often avoid conversations about mental health
• How anxiety can be learned from parents and caregivers
• Why therapy should not be treated as a last resort
• The difference between surviving and emotionally healing
• Supporting someone experiencing suicidal ideation
• The importance of empathy, validation, and human connection
• Breaking generational patterns without abandoning your culture
• How to begin seeking help before reaching a breaking point

This may be one of the most important conversations we have had on KIC Back.

Watch the full episode, share it with someone who may need it, and continue the conversation in the comments.

Guest: Rebecca Singh, LMHC
Podcast: KIC Back
Episode: 14

Subscribe to the KIC Back Podcast for honest conversations with Caribbean leaders, creatives, entrepreneurs, and community voices who are helping shape the culture.

#KICBackPodcast #MentalHealthAwareness #CaribbeanMentalHealth #RebeccaSingh #Therapy #GenerationalTrauma #Anxiety #MentalHealthMatters #CaribbeanPodcast #BreakingTheStigma

Transcript

SPEAKER_09 0:02

But somewhere in all of that, many of us were never really taught how to heal.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

I get what you're trying to do, but like this is like a lot.

SPEAKER_05 0:10

Being the only kid growing up, it was it was tough. Like a weight just pulling me down.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

When you feel it, like you feel in your chest, right? You feel in your stomach. That was a still question for you, but like, do you think you're important?

SPEAKER_09 2:01

So tonight's conversation is one our community has needed for a very long time. So, guys, we come from uh people who taught us how to survive, how to work hard, how to sacrifice, and how to stay loyal. But somewhere in all of that, many of us were never really taught how to heal. Our guest tonight understands that journey deeply. Growing up as an Indo-Guyanese American in a Muslim and Hindu household, she lived the tension of balancing culture, faith, family expectations, and individuality long before she ever became a therapist. Today, her work at Gaia Therapy and her platform as Indo-Carib Therapist, she's helping young adults, couples, and families unpack identity, intergenerational trauma, relationships, and the weight of expectations many of us were raised under. Tonight, this isn't just about therapy, it's about the things we were taught to carry and whether it's finally time to put some of that weight down. Uh, please welcome Rebecca. Rebecca, thank you so much for uh really taking the time to come out. Of course, yeah. Um I think I thought it was really cool to have a therapist on. It's a really, I think, stigmatized topic. And uh the first thing I wanted to ask you is before you got into therapy and all the certifications and all the education, what made you think mental health therapy? This is what I I really want to do.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Well, funny story, I actually worked in publishing before I became a therapist, right? So I loved writing, reading, I worked in publishing for a while, then COVID hit, right? And then after COVID hit, I always felt like I had like I've always wanted to like help people, but I didn't really know how. And then after COVID hit, like that calling became more, right? And so like I was like, this is like the time, right? Opportunity presents itself, right? And you feel that calling. And so I basically went back to school to become a therapist. And it has been such a journey, and I've definitely feel like even through my own like therapy journey, right? That that feeling of like being seen is so is like a such a feeling that I don't think that you can really explain it. Like you really have to like go through that.

unknown 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:26

Absolutely. Yeah. So did you have a therapist? I'm sure you did. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 4:31

Um, was there something that you know you felt that you said to yourself, this is what I want other people to feel?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah, absolutely. And it's exactly that feeling scene, right? It was me figuring out my life and figuring out, like, even having that opportunity of like, wow, like I can actually figure myself out. I can figure my life out. I know what I'm doing. Even if I don't know what I'm doing, like that's okay too. And I think like we are really, we can be really like judgmental, right? And like on ourselves. So even through that journey of like, you know, learning things about myself, accepting things, releasing things, like letting it go, like that really pushed me even more. I was like, I want people to like feel this, and I want people to feel seen and feel exactly what I'm feeling here. That like, you know, there's a light at the end of that tunnel, like however dark that tunnel may be. But yeah.

SPEAKER_09 5:26

So Rebecca was like, I guess when you first told your parents about this, were they a little bit surprised that you wanted to go into my mom?

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Was my mom's always gung-ho for anything that I do. My dad was just like, what? Like therapy, like, right? But he's like, you know, typical, like old school. My dad's very old school, right? My mom is more like, she's pretty modern, right? So she's like, yeah, go for it. My dad was like, You're going back to school again? And I was just like, Yeah. And so that even having their own, I've had to like it, it starts in the home, right? So I've had to like walk my even my parents through therapy, mental health, right? My dad, even him, sometimes will be like, I don't need to go to therapy. I don't, I'm fine. And I'm like, everybody needs to go to therapy.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Everybody do need to go to therapy at one point in their life. Yeah. Myself included.

SPEAKER_05 6:14

Brian, hold on, hold on, Brian.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Rebecca is great. So I think tonight you can.

SPEAKER_05 6:17

Before you guys even like start talking, I think I should get you know my first session free right now.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

You can ask her a question.

SPEAKER_08 6:24

You gotta exit the room. It's like a one-on-one thing. It's not confession at church, so oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

I mean, but there is you know patient technicality.

SPEAKER_06 6:33

Yes, confidentiality. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

It's like HIPAA, which you should know a lot about HIPAA, Rich.

SPEAKER_06 6:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 6:39

You could ask like in third person. So I guess my friend wanted to ask about uh but yeah, no, we have we have a lot of great, great things to discuss here this evening. So um, you said you were in publishing, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:50

What what did you uh um I well worked on like you know the back end, behind the scenes stuff, like um editorial, sales, all that good stuff. I saw a peek into that world. I was there, I probably worked that career for probably for like three years.

SPEAKER_09 7:04

Like books, publishing books?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Books, yeah, children's books. I love children's books, like barely recorrectly in charge.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Don't forget, you got Mr. B spelling, B.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

But yeah, that was it was great, it was good, but like I just felt like like it wasn't enough. Like, I don't know. For me, like it didn't feel enough. It didn't feel like this was like why I was put here or like part like I lived that purpose, and I'm a strong believer that like we have many purposes, we don't just have one.

SPEAKER_07 7:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

And I feel like I lived that purpose, I did that thing, and I don't know if I see myself doing this for the rest of my life. Some people do, and that's great. And like, you know, they make great accomplishments in it, but I was like, I'm ready to move on to my next purpose, and then I just like bit the bullet, took the risk, went back to school.

SPEAKER_09 7:59

Yeah, and yeah, I think, you know, during COVID too, that was a really weird time that everyone I feel needed the therapist even more. Yeah, because you're stuck at home all day.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Honestly speaking, with you know, being COVID and everything like that, uh with the amount of people that was passing away and a lot of uh the amount of people that was getting sick, and so many people didn't know what to do, whether or not to trust the the vaccines and everything, and you know, this whole thing with us staying six feet apart. I mean, yeah. Was people six feet apart?

SPEAKER_05 8:29

It's been six years since I've been six years. I remember like to go back to school and you take a um COVID shot uh to get Moderna for anybody in here that you know works for Moderna.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

There's no one else in the room, like yeah, you know, um some a lot of people, well, not just some, but a lot of people needed therapy after, you know, going through the fact that they was losing not just one family member, absolutely, but like multiple you know, something that was not planned for at that. Um it took a toll on a lot of people, yeah. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Like just imagine us being like locked up in our rooms in our house, like working from home, you like get up and then you just like turn over and you're like on your laptop. Like that was just like life, right? And it was just like so you I used to like go out for a walk at the end of my work day, not a single soul like out there, like walking in the park or anything. I'm like, everybody was traumatized. Yeah, it was like very traumatized so dystopian. Like it was, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 9:23

So Rebecca, so you're originally from Queens or Long Island, or yes, I am from Queens.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Um, I actually uh grew up uh in Queens in like Jamaica area, and then um we moved my parents and I and my brother moved to Belrose, which is like the border of Queens and Long Island.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

Like 250 was like a yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Like around the area, like Queens, around Queens Village area. It's like Queens Village and then like Belrose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um I am a Queens girl. Yeah, I am a Queens girl. Recently moved to um Long Island, but I went to school also, like college. I went to college in Long Island too. I went to Delphi. So I know the area, I love the area, but I'm still Queens girl at heart. My brother is not a Queens boy, he's a Long Island boy, so he doesn't understand the big difference, right?

SPEAKER_09 10:10

Between Queens and Queens, yeah. But we're from the Bronx, so there's a big difference.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah. My husband thinks like he's a Long Island boy, but I'm like, you won't ever get what it's like to be a Queens person. I kinda wonder.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

I don't know. Every time we go to like a wedding or something in Queens, uh the people come up to us like we guys based from like Queens. The first thing they'll say Queens.

SPEAKER_06 10:30

Queens, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Queens or Brooklyn or Long Island. They would never say the Bronx.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

No.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

And then we tell the Bronx they become weird places.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

I know. You texted me, you guys are all coming from the Bronx. I was like, ooh.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Yeah, you know, you didn't see how she can't bodyguard. We gotta have her, come on camera really quick.

SPEAKER_05 10:52

What you're doing real quick.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

We can have it right there, buddy.

SPEAKER_05 10:56

There we go. It's a little tight, but we can make it work. Yeah, bodyguard, just share this mic.

SPEAKER_09 10:59

Bodyguard, look about yourself, man, and uh the the new uh project you have going on.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

Um, well, we got a new project going on. It's called the West Indy Project. So some people may have seen it. I don't know which camera. This camera, this camera, this camera. So I don't I don't want to steal her sign, though. I'm not we're not here to talk about me. But yeah, so uh, you know, my name's Ryan. Nice to meet everybody. Uh my name's Ryan. This is Brian.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

My name is Brian, it's Brandon.

unknown 11:25

Twin.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

I'm gonna tell you this right now. That's not his book name. Maybe like he got a book name.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

I thought you were a therapist and you're gonna out me. It's not my book name. All of us, such as it's a good one. It's okay. My book name is Larry, as we do as that sound. Exactly. That must be a Bronx thing. I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 11:42

So, really quickly, tell us what the West Indy is about and your goal for the project.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

The West Indie, really, really quickly is just a cultural platform where we as West Indians just uplift each other and strive to do a little bit better. That's what we're doing here, too. Yeah, that's exactly what you guys are doing here. So the vision perfectly aligns with what you guys do, man. It's great. So, yeah, that's what the West Indy is. It's a it's a very complex project. Maybe we'll maybe one day I'll come back and we'll sit down on my own.

SPEAKER_09 12:04

Yeah, absolutely. What?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Because I could get into a whole spiel about that thing. Round of applause to my boy Ryan. Ryan, you have a silky smooth voice, man.

SPEAKER_07 12:13

You gotta be in the radio.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

You sure you're not like a like a security guard at a mall or something?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

That's how he won me over.

SPEAKER_05 12:20

That's the one with a silky smooth voice. I can imagine the phone.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Hey, Rebecca. You almost kind of sound like so. You know how you know we got these clippers nowadays? Oh, you know, we got clippers, you got these clippers that does like all these clips and everything, and then you got the voiceover. He almost won me over.

SPEAKER_08 12:36

Yeah, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_09 12:38

I may contact you for some voiceovers, man.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Well, definitely with the West India. We we I do do the voiceovers myself for like uh like when I do like a little like vignette of like a person or a creator and like kind of talk about their accomplishments or what they do and where they're from. I do the voiceover myself. I was very nervous to do it at first because I was like, I don't want to put my own voice, my voice is weird.

SPEAKER_07 12:58

I know, I was like, do it, just do it.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

We should be in the radio, man.

SPEAKER_07 13:02

Yeah, that would be great.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

But I professionally also work in advertising, so I could do a little Luther. I mean, you know, Luther is my favorite. Yeah, favorite on the other. But let me let me get out of here. We're just like, get out of here, and you got your own questions, baby.

SPEAKER_09 13:19

No, it sounds like we have to have you back on the show, man. Your wife is a little jealous right now, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Listen, we definitely we definitely gotta get you back on the show, though.

SPEAKER_09 13:27

Sorry. I love that, man. The West Indy follow Instagram, uh, TikTok too, man.

SPEAKER_07 13:32

Yeah, TikTok. TikTok too, man.

SPEAKER_09 13:34

Absolutely. So so Rebecca, back to you. Um I guess growing up in Queens, like we're in Queens every weekend, yeah, right. Um I I kind of almost like uh asked myself how I would have been if I grew up in Queens because it's such a different environment than the Bronx. But how was like mental health treated in Queens growing up?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I don't know if it's like a specific like Queens thing. Like I I feel like it is an element of you know, there is more community, right? And so I think like with more community, you would think it would get like talked about more, but I think it was as long as you have people, like you're good. So you don't really need to like talk about any of it or like you know, talk about like whatever, like uh darker times or just like like as long as you had your people, you were good, right? And like my mom would be like, You got a roof over your head, you got this, you got that, you like you're you should you're good, you should be good, that's all, right? And so I think in Queens, definitely, I mean, I can't I can't speak for everyone else in Queens, but I think right, exactly. But I feel like in in my home, I didn't feel like I couldn't talk about things, right? Like I had parents who fortunately, you know, they would let me express myself and would let me be myself. But yeah.

SPEAKER_09 15:01

I now kind of w I want to meet your mom.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, she's great. She's a great cook too. She's fantastic, she cook for y'all.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

So it's like this man, he'd be the one. This type of instance, right? It's one of the step of instance. Like, what would you say to them? You know, being the fact that like, oh, you know, this and that is going on, and they you know, they're shy, they don't want to go to like they don't want to go to family members.

SPEAKER_06 15:21

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Yeah. They they're they're locking it in.

SPEAKER_06 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Right? But then at some point it's gonna break out.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Right. What do you say to those people?

SPEAKER_00 15:30

It's here's what I think about this, right? I think that the more we lock it in, the more we keep it in, right? It's gonna manifest in some other way. Right? Anger, yelling at people, shutting down, right? Like that's manifesting in some other way. It's like a key element to knowing that someone's really going through something, right? Or how long that they've kept it in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Um honestly speaking, you know. A few of my friends tomorrow stay, and and this is something that we always gotta run ourselves. Uh don't matter what's going on, always reach out. Always reach out because you don't know what this person is going through. Maybe that phone call or that text message that you were sent could just change or alter the course of what that person might be going through.

SPEAKER_06 16:16

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

And I do have a lot of people in my life that, you know, I wish that I I would have, you know, sent that text message a little a little bit or two faster. Yeah. Or maybe press that call button a little faster. Maybe change the altar, you know, alter their their course, but it you know, yeah. It was all trial and you know, tribute. I had to learn the hard way. Yeah. And now I realize that it's best. Yeah, it's best to actually find someone that you're comfortable with, you know, opening up to and you know, speak your mind. Because again, holding that in, yeah, it's really bad. Yeah, it's really, really bad. Because not only does it take a toll on you, but it actually takes a toll on everybody around you somehow.

SPEAKER_06 17:01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

You know, yeah. You go to work, you're you're depressed, you're sad, you're going through something at home, you go to work, you can't even, you know, function properly at work because now you're thinking about you know the outcomes.

SPEAKER_06 17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Or like a different scenario to fix what's going on. So you're not even focusing.

SPEAKER_06 17:17

No.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

You know, people in school, kids in school, yeah, they got so many problems going on, you know, in their household, and then on top of that, they got school, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Teachers on top of them, students always bullying them.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Yeah, yeah, your parents, right? Hard on you, like you know, like this community or the world need a lot of people more like you.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

No, thanks. Why? Because people feel comfortable coming to you and and let it out because you got you got reasons for them to change their ways. I'm glad. I'm glad you brought that up.

SPEAKER_05 17:50

You know why? I'm a I'm a teacher for those that don't know in here. Oh, you don't say the guidance counselor? I still don't even know who my guidance counselors are at my job. What do you mean? Yeah, so is is there no guidance counselors? There is guidance counselors, but I don't even know their names. I didn't say that, I just say hi to everybody in the morning. I don't know who is who. So I'm proud that she's here. No, yeah. I mean, I feel like at school, I'm gonna put my students on too.

SPEAKER_09 18:12

It's important to know who the guy guidance counselor is, right? Because these sometimes these kids are going through some really yeah hard times. Do they they come and talk to you?

SPEAKER_05 18:19

So that they could talk to you. Then like I remember I'm not I'm not formed for this. So they come with me some questions. I'm like, uh, like, do I do I because like what I remember I had some times that some kids like they would say they have like problems with a girlfriend, and then like they would say something that there's certain things that you know like you can't keep to yourself where you'd have to reach out to them. But then again, I'm like, I don't know how to reach out because they're like, hey, Mr. B, like I don't want you to tell no one this, but I want to kill myself, or like yeah, I want to hurt myself, or like I like this girl's butt, I'm like, I'm gonna stab her, and I'm like, Oh my god, I don't know how to like, you know, so they tell me, but don't say nothing, and I'm like, but this is something like I can't say quiet about.

SPEAKER_09 18:53

Can I ask if you get like if you you have your own clinic and patients, right? Yeah, if someone is like confessing something to you like that, like they want to hurt themselves or hurt someone else, yeah. What do you do? That that's that's what I always thought.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Do you Yeah, well, if they're saying that they they want to hurt someone else or they feel like they they're like wanting, you know, like or suicidal, I think suicidal ideation is different, right? That's I have to I have to have to do like a it's called a risk assessment. So I have to do a risk assessment with them. I have to sit down with them, I have to ask them the necessary questions, like do you have a plan? You know, like do you have an active plan? Like, you know, have you thought like how much are you thinking about it? Like, do you feel like you're in danger? Like all those things, right? And depending on like, you know, how severe it is too, sometimes I will have to contact like an ambulance, right? Or I will have to stay with them as long as I can to ensure that they're like with somebody and that they're safe or they're feeling safe, right? On the other hand, when you're saying, like, you know, I let's just say, right, this is not real hypothetical. Yeah, hypothetical. Right. Hypothetical is something.

SPEAKER_05 20:02

Yeah, this is Bob right Bob.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

If Bob is saying, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kill this person and I'm like planning on doing this, or I have done this, I have to report that. Like that, I absolutely have to report because that goes beyond like confidentiality and like HIPAA. Anything clinically and anything like right, anything clinical. That's like, that's way beyond, right? I feel like sometimes I think the notion is, you know, confidentiality is like saying nothing ever. But it like it has its limits, right? Yeah, it has its limits. I was waiting for the count.

SPEAKER_04 20:44

I was in her scenario. Isn't it gonna say the name Data Bird and the last one of so? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_09 20:49

He's not gonna be like, John's gonna investigate me. No, no.

SPEAKER_08 20:53

He's not listening.

SPEAKER_09 20:59

Wait, wait, wait. No, no, but but yes. I guess that that's something I I always thought about. Like, uh where does that end?

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah, there are there are of course limitations to everything.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

So do you feel like, you know, being that what you just said, right? Do you think like, you know, your patients would like open up to you more like about certain things, or would they feel would they feel like they have to hold back certain things because Well, I think in my work, my work is really based in, and I guess I can get into that now, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:29

But um, my work is really based in like therapy that is like more relational, right? Because I work couples therapy? Sorry? Couples, yeah, couples, families, like relational as in just like, you know, you and I, or like, you know, friends, relationships, right? It's just the relationship that you have with a person, right? And I work from an emotion focused, right, appro approach and also cognitive behavioral therapy. I'll get into that. But emotion focused, right, that is based in that it is based in like attachment therapy. So attachment theory basically means how can I break this down? Like it is essential for people to feel safe in their relationships, right? In order for them to feel seen, healed, all of that, right? Kind of like think about like your relationship with your parents, right? Like it right. If you don't feel safe in the relationship with your parents, right, that stuff follows you throughout your entire life. Yeah. And every relationship. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

I I don't know, because you know, I wasn't born here again.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 22:37

No, well, but that's a good, that's a good segue. So go ahead, bro.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Did you see you still talking about feeling safe with parents and stuff like that? It's different. It's totally different for me as opposed to these guys, right? Why I say it's totally different. I was disciplined back home. Yeah. Right. And my parents had all right to do that.

SPEAKER_06 22:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

Right. And I felt like that was their way of like, you know, putting me on the right path, making making sure that you know I'm not doing anything. I'm asking you. You're talking about getting hit.

SPEAKER_06 23:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Oh, trust me. We all know. We all know what I'm talking about when I say get disciplined.

SPEAKER_06 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

My mom throw a building up behind me.

SPEAKER_09 23:15

You probably deserved it too.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Yeah. And uh, you know, then I came over here and then I see my cousin them grow up and I witnessed the way they were growing up, and also, you know, watching TV, you'll see that they have it on the news or they have it on TV. Anybody put their hands on you, doesn't matter who it is. Call. I guess what? Someone's gonna be at your door. So it's like you call? Oh no, of course. Of course not. Of course not.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

You get it twice as bad if you call. No, listen to that.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Listen to me, listen to me. They will give you the phone. Matter of fact, they will call the number and give you the phone on speaker. And then you don't want to give them the address, they will give the address.

SPEAKER_09 24:02

So I remember I think my mom or dad told me a story about someone who called on their parents and shop check if services came. And they got beat even worse after that. No, but then a whole investigation has to take place, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

And that's the difference because, like, you know, we as uh Caribbeans, right? We come over here and then, you know, you get influenced by your little friends, like you know, go to their house and everything, and you see the way they interact with their family, and you think that okay, you could come home and you could do the same thing. But then, you know, it gets traumatized when they come over and they see the way you're getting treated by your parents. Yeah, because you know, they're they're not accustomed to that.

SPEAKER_06 24:33

Not accustomed to that.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

They're definitely not accustomed to that. They're not accustomed to see you getting yelled at, they're not accustomed to see you getting beat up by your parents and everything like that for like not taking out the garbage.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. I think I think I also work from an approach of like this is there's a difference between like Western concepts and like things that work for us. Right. So so much of my work is like when my clients come to me, they're like, uh, I had a therapist, so they were white, and um, it didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_03 25:05

And I'm like, of course, because they didn't, you know, they couldn't understand. Exactly. So things stay.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

They'll just be like, oh, well, you know, you have to stand up or you know, stand up for yourself, or you have to, and it's that's not gonna work. You can't stand up to stand up to what? That's not gonna work, right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 25:21

So I I guess um, Rebecca, so we have this conversation. Well, we have this conversation many times in the past, right? So I guess like growing up and you're a teenager and you're having some like, you know, melancholy, we had a whole conversation about that.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_09 25:37

Let's bury it, let's bury you. Rebecca has some words for you a little bit later. Thank you. Um no, but yes, so like if you are depressed as a teenager and you go to your your mom or dad and tell them that, um they'll probably say just like you said, yeah. You have a roof over your head, you have food, um, things are going well for you. Why why are you depressed?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Yeah, I mean um I'll share this, right? I I I did have depression, right? I was diagnosed clinically depressed at one point, right? Especially during COVID. I don't I also this is my take on it. I really also don't feel depression is something that can just go away and just can be fixed. Like I I think it comes in seasons and it comes in different times. You don't know when it's gonna come on, right? And so it is right, even me telling my my mom, right? I shared it with my dad, but I like you kind of know which parent to really talk to, right? Like my dad can he's very, very understanding man, but only to like, you know, my mom is like the one, my go-to, right? And so, but even with her, they feel a sense of like, I did something wrong, right? Like, what did I where did I go wrong where you're feeling this way, right? And like I give you everything. And that's exactly what she said to me, right?

SPEAKER_09 26:55

She's like, I mean, I can only imagine too as a parent, like if your child's coming to you, like, you know, did I do something wrong?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 27:01

Can I correct something?

SPEAKER_00 27:02

But sometimes it's not their fault, right? Right. And that's honestly, that's what I had to tell her.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

They love to rub it in your face too when you when you go to them, like, oh, I'm depressed about certain things. Depressed for what? Yeah. Yeah, the first thing, what you we depressed for? Yeah. We get we get housey, right? You get roof on top of your head, you get food, hat has food. Yeah. You come home and you go to bed, you don't gotta worry about nothing. Right? When you depress.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Yeah. The best one is you don't think I'm depressed too. That's that's the best one.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

They'll be like, we gotta go work.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Then we gotta come back and clean and cook. Yeah, and go buy chicken and cut chicken. And and then take care of you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 27:37

You know, so it's like, yeah. So I guess Rebecca, what what would you tell someone like like that who's you know going through something like that? Um, and that's the response they're getting from their, you know, mom and dad.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Their parents. I think, especially in my work, I like going back to that like attachment theory, that attachment base, right? Like, I try to serve to my clients as someone that like my work is so relational that like I'm serving as a safe space for them, right? Like anything that they're unable to like tell their friends, their parents, like whoever it is, right? Like they can come here into this space where it's with whether we're virtual, whether we're like in person in this space for the next 45 minutes to an hour, like this is your space to say those things. And you don't need to take it out of the room after that, right? Because sometimes it's even if you try to explain things to your parents, to your friends, even right, they're not always gonna get it, right? And I think like it's it's it will really feel right dismissive. It will really, really feel dismissive. And I think it's also like learning that sometimes some people, especially people that we love, right, they sometimes they don't have the capacity, right, to understand or to hold that for you, right? And so it's kind of like learning that is also like a two-way street too, right? Like you like understanding that about them, that like, hey, I can't continue to go to them about this because they're not gonna give me the answers that I want, or they're not gonna make me feel the way that I want to feel, right? So, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

On that note, um, I had a past relationship, right? And it was so crazy because there were certain things that I was going through in my life, right? You know, that I couldn't go to my significant other to tell them about what was going on in my life because I felt that they would never been able to understand what it is that I I was going through.

SPEAKER_06 29:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

And I was choosing friends. Yeah. Because I I, you know, I was thinking that, you know, they could tell me something that is gonna change my whole mindset. They could at least persuade me in a different path, right? Oh, yo, don't do that.

SPEAKER_06 29:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

You know, give me advice from their, you know, from their life.

SPEAKER_06 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

Um and it was it was it was tough because I had to reach out to other people rather than reaching out to this person that I thought, you know, I could confide in. But it was like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

And that hurts, right? That hurts very much, right? So much, right? That like this is my person. And I cannot tell my person how I feel and like bear everything to that person. That really hurts. And it's so much work of like, that's not something that's my fault, right? This is something that this person, who knows if they'll have that capacity to like, you know, hold that for anybody, right? Or even hold that for themselves, right? It really also starts from there, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:31

Like, so like piggyback over Brian, right? Yeah. I was in a population just like this. Yeah. Right. And I remember like You guys are getting really deep. She she No, I love this.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

I love this because you know, men's men's mental health is important.

SPEAKER_05 30:43

My first session is free. I gotta eat it up while I got it.

SPEAKER_08 30:46

And Rebecca, I was so scared that they were gonna say anything because usually they're like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

You know what's crazy? It it's good, it's good that you, you know, we actually brought you on here today. It's because, like you said, men's mental health is very, is very, you know.

SPEAKER_09 30:58

Especially in our community. That's why I wanted to have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_08 31:00

Overlooked. Very overlooked.

SPEAKER_05 31:02

Hold on, before he before he forgets, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 31:04

Yeah, I was like, I forgot.

SPEAKER_05 31:05

Anyway, thinking back on Bob Brian, right? I remember like the same thing, right? I used to confide in my friends instead of her. And I remember she got mad because she'd say, Oh, you're always with your friends. I'm like, no, because like we're always going back and forth. Yeah. Like it, like I remember like I asked my friends, like, like I remember I used to ask her, like, hey, like, who are you going with? Yeah, what you're wearing, and yeah, like what time you think you'll be home? Yeah. Right. And or like, wait, or like, what's the location? She'd say, like, why do I need to give you proof of who I'm with? I'm like, that's not proof, it's just like a safety thing versus a she's I take it as safety, she'd take it as controlling.

SPEAKER_06 31:37

Right.

SPEAKER_05 31:38

And I'm like, we could never get that past that barrier. So I was like, hey, like, you know, and then downhill. Yep. Downhill. Right. So it never ever worked. Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

So you guys kept like missing the train. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 31:49

Record you got two clients here.

SPEAKER_09 31:50

Look at that. First first session, eat it up. No, no. So so look, I um me too. So I uh was in a car accident in 2020, right after I finished PA school.

SPEAKER_08 32:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 32:01

Right?

SPEAKER_08 32:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 32:02

And I had never gone to therapy before. This man was great. He he used to go to the club with the neck brace. That's a lie. That's a lot. No, but so like it it was the most inopportune time because like it was only, I think, about a month away from me taking my like boards, right? So it was a really bad car accident. Yeah. And like my car was totaled, someone passed away. It was like a whole terrible, terrible thing. Yeah, terrible, terrible thing.

SPEAKER_07 32:29

So sorry, wow.

SPEAKER_09 32:30

Yeah, it was bad. It was bad. But like I didn't know how to deal with it, right? And I of course my like you know, mom and dad were just like, you know, just gotta be grateful you're alive. And I mean, they were being helpful, yeah, right? But I just couldn't get over the hump. Like I remember I I failed my boards the first time, and I was like, oh man, like, is something wrong with me? And I just spiraled after that. And then I was like, you know what? I think one of my friends from school was like, you know, I think you are going through a lot and you should try to go and speak to someone.

SPEAKER_06 33:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 33:02

So I was like, all right, I'll try it. Yeah, I'll try it.

SPEAKER_06 33:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 33:05

And it has been the best thing that I've done in my life so far, I think, right? Just uh to really process different thoughts and I guess organize the way I feel. Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 33:19

Like sometimes you're not really sure about certain feelings, and I guess it's a good way to process it.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like, we have so many feelings and emotions, right? Like, we're not equipped to navigate it all on our own. We're we're just not, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Uh-oh. And then we got people that, you know, you try you try to like reach out to them for help or for advice, and then, you know, they'll look at you a certain way.

SPEAKER_06 33:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

Like, why are you why are you coming to me with this? Or like, yeah, why are you telling me this? No, this had nothing to do with me.

SPEAKER_06 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

I don't want no parts of this.

SPEAKER_06 33:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

So it's always like, it's always like, Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_05 33:55

I'll try to find you in the club with the neck brace.

SPEAKER_09 33:58

No, that was in my house. Someone's got the club with a neck brace. Yeah. No, so so yeah, Rebecca. So um I feel like a lot of men in our community, right? They like to mask these symptoms and feelings with like numbing agents. Yeah. Right? Alcohol, smoking, uh, taking out their anger and on other people sometimes, domestic violence.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Domestic violence, I'm sorry. I feel like if we had a couple more you back in Ghana, yeah, a lot of these men would not be chopping up their wives and no, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

No, I agree though. I agree. I mean, like, this is probably for another day, but there's like so many ideas in my head that I like want to like give back and just like I don't I like I but I don't even know where to begin. You know what I mean? Like creating foundations, doing all those things to help like our people, right? Because my mom tells me all the time, because they're frequent goers of Guyana, right? They go for cricket or they go for whatever. Huge fans. Right. Oh, my parents are huge fans.

SPEAKER_05 34:57

I want the last day to watch Trinidad Win.

SPEAKER_09 34:59

Brennan Wen and he's not a fan of cricket.

SPEAKER_05 35:01

Yeah. What you mean? Go on, come on. Trigger that. I'm wearing the flag. Name one of the players. No, they're not one, didn't they? No, are you crazy? Nimm one of the players. Nikki P, Mr. Puran.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

We're gonna get, we gotta, oh my god. My parents and and Ryan's parents, they like go to cricket matches together. They went all the way to Ireland.

SPEAKER_05 35:21

Are they going um this coming September? So Barbados to Barbados?

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Yeah. I think they are. I think they are, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 35:29

We should be the like um announcer. Now up to bat.

unknown 35:33

Welcome to Brian Larson.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Man, this guy. I'm not gonna start with him. He hasn't even been to Guyana yet. So, like, no, yeah. No, you never been? Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

So, like, I remember um You gotta go. You gotta go. Trust me, you gotta go. And make sure when you go, try the paperback fire rice.

SPEAKER_09 35:49

Oh my god, that's a whole nother conversation. That is the Burbice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Oh, and Burbese is where it's at. Burbies is where it's at. Trust me, I'm Burbishan, so Yago Mantra.

SPEAKER_09 36:03

All right, guys, back on track, back on track. Um, what was I saying? Oh, yes. So I remember uh growing up, my mom used to tell me that uh, you know, people in Guyana, as soon as they got into any sort of relationship issue, they just would reach for the grammazone and try to end the game.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Grammazone was the most selling thing.

SPEAKER_06 36:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

Because, man, if you're not going to cut can and coming home to your wife being loyal, then guess what?

SPEAKER_09 36:27

No, and uh we're not trying to romanticize that in any way or form because that's that's that's horrible. It's really bad.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

It was a lot of hanging, a lot of grammazone drinking, and a lot of chapping.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah. And well, well, that's what my mom is saying. She's like, it's just so bad. It's bad over there, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

And that's because I feel like that's because nobody really has, you know, that source to go to to uh, you know, unleash all of that like negative energy, like and release themselves. Yeah. Talk about all of that.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

This is also like a part of why I do this, right? Like I want people to see me and so like, oh, like this person looks like me. You know, it's like going back to like working and publishing, working on children's books, and like being interested in working with children's books, right? Like kids want to see themselves in those books, right? And it's like the same thing, right? People are only gonna come to people that, you know, they feel comfortable. They feel like, oh, this person looks like me. I can go talk to them about this, right? And so, like, that was also like one of the main purposes where why I really wanted to get in this, because the representation that we have, I wouldn't say that it's none. I think we have a really good handful. I let me know. Literally, no, I have I have contacts.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

So the reason no, when I say we have none, I don't mean like we have like zero. Yeah, yeah. I mean like we have none because there's so very few. Yes, so very few that we're very like, we know we overlooked.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

And a lot of people you want to go to a therapist, the best therapist you want to go to is like, you know, occasion and everything like that. So it's like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Sometimes you also have to like settle too, because you won't find someone who looks like us and then like you're like, oh, I'm just gonna settle for this therapist.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

But at the same time, yeah, if you're settling for someone that you think is gonna understand you, but have no idea what it is that you're talking about, then are you really getting it?

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Are you really getting exactly I agree with that? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_09 38:12

Explain how things are. Like, yeah. The therapist I go to is is is white. So like he didn't really understand like what I what I really like.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 38:20

Um yeah, because I mean No, white is fine.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

You could say white, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 38:27

Um no, but yeah, so like, you know, sometimes they don't really understand the nuances of you know, the culture and how your parents would react and the c sort of cultural expectations.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 38:39

Especially for girls too. I think for girls is really hard.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yeah. Right? It is very, very hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 38:43

When they're, you know, trying to tell you you need to get married at this age and you should have kids by this age, and it's a lot of you know, pressure for sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

It is it is a lot, right? And I feel like then you're going to your friends, but they're also facing the same kind of pressure. So it's just like, you know, where we not not that we need answers, but it's just like where can we like go where it doesn't feel like this like pressure is always there. And so it's just like making that room for yourself of like kind of like I there is pressure, but right now that pressure can't touch me. Right. Like that's that's where you that's the place you want to get to. And sometimes it takes a long time to get there, and that's okay, right? I have clients who come in and they want to get to answers right away, right away, right away. And like, you know, but that's not that's not the work, right? If it was that easy, like I would even love I would love it if it was it would be that easy too, right? But it's just like not.

SPEAKER_09 39:40

Well, sometimes there is no answer, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:42

And sometimes there's no answer, right? Sometimes there's no answer.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

I gotta ask real quick, right? So when you told your friends and your, you know, your parents and your family members and everything that you were switching profession from the publisher to mental health therapists, yeah. What was their reaction like? Yeah. Friends, maybe. Yeah. Like friends. Like, because I know I know you told your friends, like yeah, friends were cool. They were cool for you.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah, my friends are pretty woke. So my friends are pretty woke. So they were they were like cool about it. Like it was like, it was awesome. It was it was definitely awesome. Family, on the other hand, like I don't yeah, I don't think they had a bad reaction, but then they do like you kind of just like become like I don't know how to say like a running joke almost, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:23

What is Galaba we contour?

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah, like like you kind of like, oh, like I've gone so many times. Like, oh, you see crazy people? Or I'm like, well, I see people like you and I. So if we're crazy, we're crazy. You know what I mean? Like, or like a running joke of like, um, oh, that person over there, like, you know, that uncle needs, he could like really use your help, or that auntie could really use your help. And I'm like, I'm like, man, if I like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

You could you're like it's so funny because I I'm I'm pretty sure we I'm I don't know about everybody else but me personally. I have a few of those in my favorite. I'll be like, yo, he needs to be able to do that. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 40:56

Brian, you don't you should become a therapist.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Trust me.

SPEAKER_08 40:59

Probably could train under Rebecca.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Yeah, you have good instincts.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Um I'll have to sleep on it. I'll have to sleep on that.

SPEAKER_09 41:06

No, no, Rebecca, that's that's a quick question I had too. Like, I wish I could like put my grandma in therapy. Yeah. Right? I know she's she won't go. Yeah. Right, but I wish that that's a conversation we could have, right? Like, you know, I think grandma, you probably could use it. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_06 41:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 41:19

But if you have an older parent or a grandparent, right, how do you think is a good way to approach the topic of like, you know, mental health?

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Well, I'm gonna share this too, right? This is act this is gonna be pretty deep. I lost my grandma about three years ago. And thank you. Yeah, it was it was it was really hard. Happened out of nowhere. And so my my grandpa now, he is struggling. He's still struggling, right? Um, not that it's only been three years. I mean, like, you know, the person you've been married to for decades, right, just like is not not there anymore. And so a lot of his grief has turned into like long-term grief, which also like has like turned into depression as well. So I tell him all the time, right? And he's very like, he's also old school, right? And he'll like go to the doctor, right? Right. He's very like, you know, I like to do that.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

I was gonna say make sure you make sure you sort of keep active because they let themselves down and they let that depression sleep through.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

He really, I like that really took a toll on him, like genuinely took a toll on him. And talking to him about it, like even he would go to the doctor, and the doctor would they have to give like like wellness checkups and stuff, and he would get so offended, right? And he'd just be like, Why are they asking me this? And I'm like, Grandpa, like they have to ask you these things, right? Like you're saying these things that like you're not sleeping, you're not like doing this, you're not doing that, right? They're gonna have to ask you these things, right? And so I think I take on again a role of talking to him about it, which is also like, but it's so close to home, right? So that it's like hard. It's gotten a little bit easier for him, where I feel like I'm able to kind of get through to him of like, hey, this is grieving, and you know, you can't like get over griff grief stays with you, like forever, right? And no matter how small, no matter how big it like, you know, it becomes or it gets, right? It's gonna stay with you.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

And so think about it at the point.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Yeah. So him, like, you know, he had to really accept that, right? And it's still accepting that. And so when you're talking to like, I think the older generation about mental health and therapy, I really do feel like so much of what we can live in is our defense. And that means like meaning like feeling uncomfortable, right? It's so much easier to push back and to shut down or be closed off from something, right? Because going to those deeper corners of your life and those spaces is really scary. It can be really scary to confront a lot of things, right? Whether it's in your child. Childhood, whether it's like, you know, I say trauma doesn't have to be this big grand thing. It could be something as small as somebody telling you something about yourself and you hold on to that forever. Right. And so I think it's I used to think it was like for older people too, right? I used to think like, oh my God, this is like ignorance. They're so ignorant, right? Like, why are they like keep they keep saying this, they keep doing this, right? They, you know, whatever it is. And as I've gotten deeper into my own work, I've realized that like it is just so much easier to like misunderstand something because it takes so much effort to understand and to sit with like, you know, being uncomfortable and discomfort. Like that's really difficult to do. And I think, especially with the older generation, growing up where it's like, why cry for? Why you crying? Like, why are you crying?

SPEAKER_03 44:51

So does this you cry and they want to give you more like?

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Oh, yeah. Oh, give me some. I'll give you something to cry about. You know, you're really starting. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 44:56

That's that's no, no, I know, I know. I experienced it too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Listen, I don't know, but my grandfather, he that man, I love the mental death, but yeah, growing up, yeah, it was like I was the favorite. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Same.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Hands down, I was the favorite. And all my other cousins and my brother and everything was just like always like hating on me. Because you know, I was always getting the best. And after a point, like, you know, it started taking a toll on them because like now I'm always getting the best at everything.

SPEAKER_06 45:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

And I was always getting the praised, and I was always the one that's like, you know, being pushed forward and everything. And then I was never the best.

SPEAKER_06 45:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

You know? Yeah. But other cousins, they're they're better at me at something else, and they're not getting the recognization for it. And then now they they don't want to do it no more because now they're getting talked down instead of being talked up about it.

SPEAKER_06 45:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

Who they go to to do, you know, the vent about it. They can't go to friends because now friends are gonna laugh about that.

SPEAKER_06 45:56

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

They can't go to other family members because you know, family members are gonna be like, Well, don't do it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yeah, don't do it anymore, yeah. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03 46:04

And then now you shatter your whole dream.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Like, I remember as a kid, I used to run around like, oh, I want to be this, I want to be that, I want to do this, I wanna when I grow up, you know. And then you have like these older people around you, and they'll be like, Well, who you think you is gonna do that?

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Yeah, yeah. Discouragement, discouraging you.

SPEAKER_03 46:22

And then I feel like if I had somebody to talk to that really understand what it was that I wanted to do and like, you know, how I wanted to do certain things, I think I would have been a better person than I am, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Yeah. I mean, I feel that, like, even with my brother, he's he's younger than me. And he, um, you know, like growing up in school, right? Like, I was that kid, like, I got good grades, I like whatever, whatever. Like, I always did the thing and like, you know, that, like, and so him growing up, like my dad would be kind of hard on him. He'd be like, why can't you like, you know, Rebecca did it? Why can't you like why can't you do it like you know, or learn from her? And that and I've had to tell him, like, you need to stop doing that. Like, even even now, like you can't compare us. Yeah, it's bad.

SPEAKER_08 47:07

Yeah, I think it's bad because luckily, Brandon's the only child also brand. What's your experience, Brandon?

SPEAKER_05 47:12

Must be lucky, right, buddy. Oh man, must be lucky. You think is is nice. I mean, being an only child is nice. Don't don't get me wrong. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_09 47:19

Yeah, but Rebecca, can you can you explain to Brandon what is the only child syndrome? Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

But I feel like he knows we'll touch back upon that. But uh no, being an only child is great, but it's lonely. Yeah. So, you know, like I never really had anyone to really talk to or like go to. I mean, I have my cousin, her name is Sherry. I grew up with her, but there's certain things like she's a girl, like I can't talk to her about certain things. So like I just have to keep it locked in my head. Yeah. And then I tell my friends, and but there's only so much that they could do. Right. But being a only kid growing up, it was it was tough. It was kind of tough because again, like I didn't have no one to follow, I had no one to mimic.

SPEAKER_06 47:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

Like, for example, like you guys talking about like, oh, like your brother, for example. Oh, why can't he be like Rebecca? I mean, I had to weave, bop, and weave through everything, just trying to figure it out all for it because I didn't know how to, like, if I did this wrong, I wouldn't know how to do it correctly. And then my mom and dad, yeah, they were all part on the same boat as them. Right, right. So growing up, it was tough, but I learned.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

It is it's rough, right? Because it's like you uh you don't have that companion next to you, meaning like an another sibling or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

It hits a little different because you know, I was of age, like, you know, I was like mid-teenager, yeah, late teenager. Yeah. And you know, to see them like, you know, separate and then see all the fights and everything, it was it was very traumatizing for me. And I really had nobody to go to. Talk about, yeah, yeah. Because again, you go to somebody, you tell them about you, you know, what's going on, and then now they got this whole other persona about you. Yeah. This whole perspective about, oh, this person, he probably goes through this in his life, then this is how he is.

SPEAKER_06 48:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:51

You know, and it was very tough for me to reach out. Yeah. Very tough for me to reach out. So I had I had to like bottle it up, bottle it up. And I kept on bottling it up, and then it got to a point where I had like, you know, unleashed it, and then it was bad.

SPEAKER_06 49:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

You know, like depressed. I was so very depressed because like, you know, I was dealing with emotions from so much different things.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Right. I'm sure like that mask was like the anger.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

Very much, yeah, very much so. And you know, then I had school, and then the fact that I was not, you know, brought up over here, so I had a different, like, you know, perspective on life and everything. So it was very tough because I had to like, you know, uh you know, yeah. Uh how do you say it? Um, get accustomed to the lifestyle, adjust, yeah. Adjust to the lifestyle, and then also adjust to the fact that now I have size culture shock.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

It's literally culture shock. Very much so, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:46

And a lot of parents nowadays they'll say depressed, anxiety, what's the?

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:51

That's the go-to house.

SPEAKER_00 49:52

Yeah. Oh my god, you know, times I'd be like, damn, like you're they're really anxious. Like my dad is super anxious, like all the time. And like they're like high functioning, like people who have like, you know, high functioning anxiety, right? Like, they're so anxious that they like have to do everything like uh like all at once, and like, you know, and that's how like my brother and I really grew up, right? Like, and I didn't realize that it was like high functioning anxiety, right? Until I got married. And then they would like our parents, they're like my parents and Ryan's parents, like love them, they love each other, we're very, very close. Like, there's like even been like, you know, rumors that like, oh, they they like matched us. And it's like, no, like we we actually match them. But it's like I've learned even through like having a partner and having their different family dynamic of like, wow, my parents. I used to always think like, and I I do think this, that they're very like well put together and stuff, but like seeing his family too, I'm like, but they're also put together, but like this is different. But like my parents are like, make sure you do this, make sure you do that, right? Like it's so much anxiety that like I've even brought that, you know. Um, I'm not gonna lie, into my own like relationship where like, make sure this is how my and you know, it gets really difficult, right? Like when you like have a partner or like you have a friend, even who it's just like, I I get what you're trying to do, but like this is like a lot. This is a lot. This is feeling like a lot. And you're kind of like, why? Like this is just how I grew up, right? And but then you have to take time to look back at it and be like, oh wait, maybe I do need to chill. And maybe that like doesn't have to get done like right away, or even like trusting that like eventually it will get done, or like somebody else will do it, right? So it's like so much of that causes even like control issues, you know what I mean? But it is really like, you know, what you're used to, what you're like, you know, your baseline, right? So many people I think like operate from a baseline of like, you know, comfort where it's not like, oh, this feels good comfort, but it's like they're just so comfortable. Sometimes anxiety could be like a baseline of comfort, right? And if they feel anything better than anxiety, right, then they're like freaking out because it's just like, wait, I'm feeling good. Like, you know, I have to bring myself back here because this baseline makes me feel like I'm safe. I'm safe. Right, right. So it's just like, and so many times I tell my clients this too. I'm like, wait, what just happened there? Right. You said you felt good. You did something that felt like felt good, and and how did that feel? Right. And they were like, it just was weird. I'm like, yeah, because it's different. Your baseline is anxiety, right? And so it's going to feel like anything above it is not okay, right? And so that's like that, even I'm going off on a tangent here. No, no, please. But like there's like emotional regulation, right? Like what I said, like so many people I think come for, and and I'm saying this in a way of like, it's not their fault, right? It's our human experience to want to feel good and to fix things and make sure that like we feel good all the time, right? And so when dysregulation comes in, you want to fix that dysregulation. How do I stop that from happening? Like, I don't want to feel that at all. And it's just like we can't when we learn that we can't push away negative feelings, we have to allow them the same way we want to feel good all the time, right? And so emotional regulation is not, oh, I feel great now, like this feels fine, I'm cool, like everything is fine. It's actually, okay, I know this dysregulation is happening for me and I have to make space for it. I have to acknowledge it. I have to confront it. And then I need to work on that emotional regulation. Cause like you said, some things don't have answers, right? Some things are just, I need to accept this, and like I need to figure out how to even accept it and so I can move forward because I can't change certain things. And I think that is a really hard pill to swallow, right?

SPEAKER_09 53:56

That like especially when you know you're someone who is like trying to find a result or an answer, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 54:02

I guess one one thing too that I um sort of came to terms with is uh we play a lot of like sports games. We play like uh 2K. Yeah. Oh, so when the cheetah when you're playing MBA 2K, right? Like the players have an awareness rating. Right? Yeah. So I think going to therapy has helped me boosted that boost that awareness rating. Because I guess like yeah, I'm I'm now more aware of things. So I think like through the you know many sort of sessions, I I've learned that you know, subconsciously myself and you know others do things to try to make their parents happy.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 54:36

Right. And that's a that's a big uh thing that you end up doing, just is try to get their uh approval. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

I mean, like that exactly what I mean. Like that baseline point is also when you yeah, when you look at it deeper, right? And like you go into it deeper, right? We're that's like operating from a place of survival, right? That's what you're really doing. You're just like surviving. So anything that doesn't feel like survival or feels better than survival, you're kind of like, wait, this is you know, people say it's too good to be true, yeah, right? Because you you need to go back to that baseline where it feels safe for you. Yeah.

unknown 55:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

Just like I said, like that the other day. Not every day's gonna be like a better roses.

SPEAKER_07 55:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:15

The bed of roses.

SPEAKER_07 55:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:17

You know, and and a lot of people, a lot of people need to understand too. Um, they gotta hand they gotta understand the yin and yang, but that there's a balance, you know, between good and bad.

SPEAKER_06 55:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

You you gotta understand that you can't have a happy day, an amazing day every day. You know, nobody's perfect. Nobody's perfect in the world. There's always gonna be bad times, there's always gonna be some type of obstacles.

SPEAKER_06 55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

Um like you say, as long as you can find solutions to those type of obstacles and you know, you have a very good, strong, supportive team behind you, someone that you can always reach out to. Yeah. You know, like for example, you now, you have, you know, you have your patients. They they feel confident in coming to you to express themselves when they cannot to somebody else. It's it's it's very, you know, it's very heart-touching because now our people now have somewhere to go to vent.

SPEAKER_06 56:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

And I wonder about, oh, can I say something to this person and have them understand what I what it is that I'm actually really truly feeling?

SPEAKER_00 56:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

You know, and ha and have them actually help me in the way that I need help.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

It is I I'm telling it's really life-changing. Like I have seen, I call it like the light bulb. Like I have seen my clients, my patients like come to me and then tell me something and then tell me, I have never told anybody this ever in my life, right? And the light bulb goes off for them, right? Because it's that release, right? They're looking for that release. So much of my work that I do also is like experiential, right? Meaning like it's the feeling that you're having, right? Cycles happen is but they happen because that feeling is getting stuck in your body somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 56:53

It's like a weight, it's like a weight just putting you down.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

When you feel it, like you feel in your chest, right? You feel in your stomach, people feel in their neck, right? And it's that, right? It's being it's stuck there and it's looking for a way out when people are crying and like or they're they're talking and like they can't get it out because they get like choked up here.

SPEAKER_03 57:10

Fuck me. I know exactly. I know what you talk about because look, yeah, I go to a lot of like funerals and stuff like this, right? I'm sorry to get like it. No, no, go ahead, right? But um, but this also has to do with a lot with mental health as well, too. Yeah, um, I go to a lot of funerals, a lot of wakes and stuff like that, a lot of viewings because I play drums and everything like that.

SPEAKER_06 57:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

Uh, and I see these people like, you know, I see these people always like try to come to one another and try to talk about the person's life. And then you would see the you have the group that would always talk about all the good things this person did. Yeah. And then a little bit down the line, you'll see there's this group that talks about all the negative things the person did.

SPEAKER_06 57:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

And it's like, damn.

SPEAKER_06 57:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

Are you really here to like talk about the things the person did or just like, you know, live the fact that you know, live the life that he lived.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

Because now are you here to be here? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because now, like, he's an example now. That person is an example laying there lifeless.

SPEAKER_06 58:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Take that as an example. At some point, we're all gonna be there. Yeah, you know. And a lot of people always take things too much to the head.

SPEAKER_06 58:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

Stress-wise, uh, depression-wise, uh you know, angriness. They always take it a lot to the head.

SPEAKER_06 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:24

Much more so than they need to be.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:26

And then they lash out, they always do X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Right. Yeah. Because I I I think it's that that we're, I think honestly, as humans, we're just programmed to problem. We're like want to problem solve our way out of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

Troubleshoot everything.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

And troubleshoot everything.

SPEAKER_03 58:40

And like sometimes it's not, it's not good for you to just want to troubleshoot everything by solve.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

Exactly. And so when you get to that point and nothing is working, right? Nothing is working. Like I cannot, like, you know, troubleshoot it. I can't solve it. I can't problem solve, right? I always say this when we overintellectualize our feelings. That for me means that it's getting stuck in here and we just do not know how to identify it. We don't know how to name it. We don't know how to label it. We don't know how to, we don't know how to like confront it, right? You're like, it's kind of like I do this too, where like with my clients where I'll like like sit with them and I'm like, you're like literally turning away from and I will move my body, right? Something about the visuals that really like helps that human connection. You're turning away from yourself, right? If you're, you know, having you're thinking all these bad things about yourself, right? And like your only value or you're feeling only self-worth when you come from a place of, oh, I feel, I'm feeling great, I'm feeling good, right? And then that moment you feel down again, right? And you kind of just turn away from that person. How much of yourself, like you're just hurting yourself, right? And so much of the work I do too is inner child work. So imagine, right, your inner child, that little you, and they're like, you know, hurting or they're having a hard time. You're literally turning away from that person again, the same way other people have, you know, done that to you, or maybe have taught you to do that. So it becomes really hard to sometimes even accept that, like, wow, I am struggling, right? And I think so much of the work in like mental health and like therapy is being okay for lack of a better term, like being okay with like sometimes I'm gonna struggle, right? I'm gonna struggle, but that doesn't mean that my self-worth and my self-value is nothing, right? Like I like learning so I so much of my work is also from like learning self-compassion, right? Like, oh my God, like that little you, like you just like you're so hard on them. Like you're being so hard on them right now. Like if you could have them sit next to you, like what would you say to them? Like, what do you think they would want you to say? And so some I'm also now going up and no, please, please. But like it's it's it's exactly that, right? But when we try to troubleshoot problem solve, it's because we're afraid or like we're gonna fail. We're failing, we're failing, we're failing. I can't fail, right? But like, man, so what if you fail? What so what?

SPEAKER_09 1:01:11

Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

It's okay. It's okay, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:13

Yeah, I think the the one of the coolest things that like when I was going through what I was going through, my my my my therapist told me to like list all the things or the accomplishments that I have, you know, made or done at that time.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:24

And I guess like I couldn't really answer. I was like, I I don't know. Yeah, I don't think I've done anything great.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:31

They told me that fail stands for first attempt in learning. That was right. Okay, okay. I just thought you were look at that, Brandon.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:40

Well done, teacher.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:42

We got a counsel for school, hell no. No, no, but but yeah, so like uh I guess like when you're feeling down and you're you sort of go through and it's like a list of affirmations almost too, right? To you know, really understand, like, well, I did that. I can do this. If I fail this, you can just keep going.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Oh, yeah. It's so much of that, like I think resilience too. And I use that word very lightly because I think people think resilience means I like am bulletproof and like, you know, I did the thing and like I came out of it and I'm great. But resilience to me really means that I let that hard thing happen and I still, you know, came out of it in a way like didn't like it still, it still softened me, right? Like that to me is resilience. That to me is like you don't need to come out of something feeling like, okay, nothing can ever hurt me ever again, right? Like that to me is not resilience. It's acknowledging like I got hurt once, it can happen again to me, and I'll be able to deal with it when it does when it does happen. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:46

Yes, yeah. Uh Big Rich, I got a question. Um, I'm gonna ask you first, because before I ask them, you know, has there ever been a point where you know you've been like to yourself, I don't need therapy, I just need the gym or some rum? The wrong part for you, Brendan.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:03

No, no, so I guess like not definitely not the rum part. I I guess I thought maybe at one time like I could just go to the gym and uh maybe work it off and things will be okay. But then I guess like when things get more complicated and complex, that could work and when you're a teenager, but I guess, right? But when you're going through life and things become more convoluted and unclear, I think therapy can definitely work. And also, like, I mean, I my my grandfather struggled with mental health tremendously. Tremendously, right? So I kind of think like, you know, if he was able to he he uh he um took his own life, right? So I think back and I'm like, you know, if he c was able to speak to someone, right? If this wasn't so stigmatized in our community, right? Like, you know, if you talk to someone, you're crazy, right? Yeah, would he still be here with us?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

Well, honestly, you right, because like mental health plays such a big part in your life that if it's not treated correctly at that it it could end up losing your life or someone around you could lose their life, you know, and that's very tough. That is very tough because it's very like demanding, you know, having people there to like actually understand you is very demanding actually being able to let people know what it is that you are feeling.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:29

It's very demanding because like can you can you actually just get up and go and be like, yo, I'm going to this or this happened to me today.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:37

You can't just do that. You actually have to build up that courage enough, right? You know, to actually want to go tell somebody.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:44

Because then you know, you're also thinking about what is this person that I'm gonna tell this to? Yeah. What are they gonna say to me?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

Right? How are they gonna react? Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Yeah, but I I like that that the highest form of care I think is like I don't I also I like this is what I want a lot of people to understand, though if you take care of your mental health, right, it will bring you closer to people that you love and people who love you, right? I agree with that, yeah. Right? Like if you take care of that part of yourself, right, you will open so many doors with another person that you didn't think you would ever go through, right? And that's like that human connection, right? I will say you should still work out, go to the gym and play. Oh no, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

I go over to it because yeah, yeah. What I will say though, right? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:36

But I have to tell you no to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

But I would say is that if you are struggling with mental health and you know you're going through depression and you're, you know, you're feeling down, don't reach for the bottle of alcohol, don't reach, you know, for like drugs, don't, you know, don't do all of that stuff because that's making you worse. Yeah, it's making you worse. And I feel the best the best thing to do when you're in those type of predicament is actually going to somebody that you could actually put your full trust in and you know open up to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Yeah. Open up to them and Or do something to like release yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:16

Yeah, I go for like long drives.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

Yeah, like go for a long drive, go for a long walk. Like scream into the air. Like, you know, your body is telling you.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

You should try, man. If I scream.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:37

One time I scratched screamed in the air. There was like, you know, what happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

Make sure no one's there, guys.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:47

You have to go to like an open field or park.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

Yes, you're done. Yeah, it's a scream. Scream into your pillow.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:55

Well, Rebecca, so I feel like um there, I know a few people who are, you know, very charismatic, very funny, very outgoing. Yeah. Right. And I feel like sometimes they're the ones struggling the most. They mask it. Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:08

Also the Western know how to mask it the best.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:11

Right? Like someone like uh Robin Williams.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

Literally Robin Williams. Look at that. Such a funny job. Everyone knew him to be, you know, amazing and funny and just jolly all the time. And then look what, you know, he unfortunately ended up, you know, taking his own life, right? But I think that is the I don't know if I really have like a straight answer for that, right? I think like so much of it is so complex, right? That you have moments of like, yes, you have heightened moments where like you feel good and you feel great and you know life is good, right? But sometimes the complexity of it is that sometimes like it's not fully complete for some people, right? And that's that's where, you know, I personally I wish that like how can we stop those things from happening, right? And it's like I wish I had answers for it, right? And it's like just holding experiences like that and holding that for people, like you're like, you can't believe it. Like, like what? Like that person was just so like happy all the time and they're so like right. Sometimes they're masking it, right? Sometimes they feel the only way to survive is to mask it, right? You know, some people they do it, they leave their families, right? They leave their loved ones, right? It gets just gets too much, like the noise just gets too much, and that's like sometimes maybe the only way they feel that they can like shut it off, right? And so much of that I feel is again why my work is so relational is to I'm always reminding my clients, like I'm here with you in this, like you're not alone.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:47

I have a question. Oh, oh no, the hands went up real quick. I don't know how to call her off. But uh, what's like the hardest thing that someone has come to you with? And like what kind of response did you give them?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:58

Like what what like what did you do in that scenario? Um But what was the hardest scenario that came to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:04

I've had a I've had a few. I have had a few.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:08

Um Is it is it as like personal you feel on the phone as compared to in person? I mean, I'm of course in person. I love in person.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:15

Like you get like you get to sit, like I sit with them like a stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:17

Yeah, most of the things that's the actual movements that you get from someone sitting right in front across the phone.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:22

Yeah, so you can't compare.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:23

It's different than having to talk to them on the phone because then honestly, you don't know how that person is you know taking with the phone.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:29

Yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen once that that phone call that that that you know session finishes, that virtual session.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:35

That happens to me like a lot. Like people tell me, like, hey, like how I text is completely different from how I am true.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:40

Yeah, he's a terrible texter. Well, thank you, Richie. But we'll text an anti volatile.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

But I think I I mean recently, like I I did have one of my clients feel like they had suicidal ideation, right? And it was, you know, you have to take it very slow, very easy with them, right? And I felt like, and it's also like I think for me, like I just went with my instinct, really, right? I was just like, I need to make her feel like human connection, right? This is what she needs right now, right? Right now, what she needs is for someone to let her know that she's not alone and that I'm here with her. So I did exactly that, right? And I said, I know this is scary, right? I'm I'm gonna validate that it is scary, right? And it's gonna feel like so many things happening at once, right? But I'm here with you, right? And like you don't, I have like, you know, she was like apologizing to me and all that. I'm like, you don't need to apologize, right? Like I want, I want to be here with you, right? It's not that I need to, like, yes, I do need to be here, but I also want to be here with you. I like being here with you, right? And so having to tell her that, right, like even asking her, like when she was leaving, I was like, I can I get a hug, right? And I think so, yeah, yeah. And I think so much of what we also learn in like school and like when we're getting our masters and stuff is just like you have to be a certain way, you have to be like stone faced or like poker faced rather, and like you have to like just like you know, and there are therapists like that, and that works for them, right? Like, no, like no judgment in that. But like my work, my husband will tell you, I can't, my you know, I wear my face on my face, and it's just so sometimes it's just really bad. It's just really bad.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:28

No, no, Rebecca, on the on the contrary.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

Fix your face, fix your face.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:32

I gotta ask real quick. Um, so though, being that you're Indo-Caribbean therapist now, right? Yeah, uh, what's your clientele base like? Is it more like derivative to uh Indo-Caribbean or is it like diverse?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:44

It is diverse at the moment, right? But I really wish, I will say this, right? I really wish I had more Indo-Caribbeans come to me.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:52

Well, you got two right here. I'm about to switch therapists too. No, no, but I feel like that that's the goal here, right? Like we really want more people to say, like, okay, this is someone I can talk to.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:03

Once people, once people understand and know that there is someone out there now that, you know, can understand them and on every level. Yeah. You know, just not being, you know, barrier, you know, barriers being like the language barrier or like, you know, the situation that you know they lived.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:20

Um, you know, now that they know that there's someone there that can understand what it is that they've been through and how they lived it and you know, different experiences.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:29

I mean, I will say I've had I've had a few, you know, Indo-Caribbean um clients and they've done beautiful work. I've seen it, right? They've done beautiful work, they've come out of so many things, they've like felt like, you know, they've planned like, you know, so much ahead like for them, right? They like feel like they have a future, like, oh, you name it, they've worked through it, right? And so I feel like that's a testament to like, hey, like this is not just like an Indo-Caribbean thing. Like, I think this is like if that person can do it, you can also do it, right? We're not like below any standard, right? Like our mental health, the way we take care of ourselves is not below any standard, right? Just as person this as the next person does, you're as important. And I will often ask clients that too. And I'll be like, I just have a silly question for you, but like, do you think you're important? And that sometimes will send like a shock wave, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:27

That sense of reassuring them, reassuring them that you know they matter and that their input actually counts. Yeah, it gives them it give them, you know, extra boost of energy, like, hey, all right, I don't need to be this sad anymore. You know, I just came out of here, I just let out everything that I that was holding me down, all the weights off my shoulder. I just let it be.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:44

But even that, but also like normalizing, like, it's okay if you do feel sad. You wanna, you, you carry, you have to process it, right? You're carrying it around with you, right? It's if you're carrying around something for a real long time, I'll tell you this now, it's because you haven't processed it. And it's like again, going back to that struck, but you just have not processed it and you're gonna feel it every single time. It's just gonna be there like that way, because the processing hasn't been done, right? And so you gotta give yourself that space to feel crappy, to process it, to sit with it, right, before you even start confronting it and now healing it, right? Like however long that may look, right? As if you're coming to therapy, at least you know you have someone there with you. Like you're not doing it on your own, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:28

Rebecca, if there are some folks who are thinking about therapy but on the fence about it, unsure. Are there any like exercises they can do with themselves to maybe work on it first at home to see if it would be a good fit, maybe?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:40

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I feel like it is really about meditation is I mean, I mean, I'll I'll I I don't need I don't meditate. Like that just it doesn't work for me. Yeah, yeah, it works for some people. It it doesn't really work for me, and you know, like that's okay, but like I feel like paying attention to what doesn't feel good, right? Before you get to the why it doesn't feel good, like what is making you not feel like yourself, not even good. What's not making you feel like yourself, right? And then if the question is, well, who am I, right? Then you know, that's even deeper things to like you gotta be really inquisitive about yourself. And that's what I think people that's a good way to like start, right? Even if you're not ready to talk to someone, right? Like, get like be inquisitive with yourself, be curious with yourself, right? Like, you know, well, why am I feeling this way, right? Like, well, this thing did just happen, right? You know, and like having those those feelings come up, right, instead of like shoving it back down, like, oh, I am shoving this feeling down, right? But so much of it, again, is like that connection with yourself, right? Sometimes people can feel so disconnected from themselves, right? And so I don't know, man. I just think like everybody should just be there for you. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:06

Have you ever like had any couples come to you talking about like, you know, their relationship and oh yeah, and yeah, trying to get you to help them fix it?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:13

Like, yeah, I will say this, and I'm gonna preface this, right? Like, I my job is not to give advice, right? That's that's not my job. And I apologize. I even apologize to my clients. I'm like, I know you want me to give you an answer, and I promise you we'll find a solution, but like I cannot give you like a play-by-play, or I can't give you an answer. And sometimes that's so and I get disappointed. It's so disappointing. It's so disappointing. I'm like, I get, I know I'm also disappointed that I can't like do that for you, right? But it's that like I serve as a container for that person or for that couple or for that family, right? Or like I serve as like that mirror, right? Like, and I'll often do this thing where I'm like, I'll say what they just said and I'll say back to them, right? I'm like, okay, you just said this. Did I hear that correctly? Right. And it's like a playback, right? So then it gives them more to like, wait, I just said, you know what I mean? Like, I just said that, or like, yeah, I did just say that, right? And so I have to often say that. Like, I and I do have a lot of like couples who come to me and they're like, Oh, you grew up in a Muslim Hindu household, like, you know, and I get it. It is it is like such a beacon for like people who are struggling with that in their relationships, right? Of like, I'm gonna go to this therapist and they're going to fix it for me and they're gonna tell me what to do with that, right? And I always have to say, like, hey, that unfortunately was my experience is that I'm a product of a relationship, of a marriage who, like, you know, my parents, my mom is Muslim, my dad is Hindu, right? I was a product of that household, right? So it really came from what they built, right? So unfortunately, I can't tell you a play by play and like what they did or what I did. But what can I say, right? You gotta have that like trust with each other, right? If you don't have that trust with each other, right.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:04

You're talking about like interfaith.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

Yeah, interfaith couples. Yeah, interfaith couples. Like you gotta have that trust with each other and you have to trust that like I I say this too. It's just like you're climbing this mountain, you're holding each other's hand. You cannot let go of that person's hand. Even if you feel like you can for a second, you can't, right? Because you're you're climbing a mountain that however each person's, each couple is different, each family is different, but however severe or how high that mountain is, right? You right, you're climbing it together, right? But like I can't give answers. I can only share so much and also disclose so much where I'm like touching of like, you know, like, okay, I can't go that deep into my own experiences, right? Because then you get into like territory of like, you know, disclosing too much and yada, yada, yada, you know. But like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:53

All right, I gotta ask you real quick, right? I'm gonna I'm gonna just step over real quick first.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:57

I'm I'm just gonna say I got dibs next, Brian. Go ahead, you got dibs next.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:00

So I gotta ask this, this one is very important. Yeah, I gotta ask you this one. Yeah, right. So you know you're Indo-Caribbean and you you know you have clientels that come to you. Yeah, right? Do you take lunch to work?

SPEAKER_08 1:19:13

That's a good one. That's a good one. Can I take lunch to work?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:15

Yes, or do you buy or do you buy it?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:17

Hey, can you give us some examples of this lunch? Yeah, what is this lunch to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:20

I I'm sorry guys, I don't take lunch to work. Do you tolerate no? I mean, like I work, like I work from home most of the time.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:27

So like when you go into the office.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:33

Like no. I don't. I will say this too. I'm sorry, guys, but I don't cook. And I don't know how to cook.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:40

Does Ryan cook? Ryan, what do you cook, man? Listen, listen, I'm gonna tell you something.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:44

Listen, shout out, shout out, shout out to Ryan, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:19:48

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:49

Come on, Ryan.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:52

All right, so what's the one?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:54

I'm gonna tell you real quick. Any man that could cook doesn't run with ladies? He's a keeper. He's a keeper. No, that man is a keeper.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:04

Oh yeah. With the voice and the cooking? Work smarter, later. Anything and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

So we we have a nice deal. Uh it's set up as like she will wash up, clean up all the dishes, and I'll cook and I'll make all the mess. But then like the food's great. So it's the best of both worlds. But I like to clean though. Yeah, she likes she likes cleaning, and I love cooking, and I love doing like you know, the outside artwork and stuff like that. Do you cook Dollar Rice? I'm I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:28

Ryan, so what is your like go-to dish, man?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:32

I love to make I don't know, I shouldn't say this as a Hindu, but I love to make steak. Oh my like skirt ribis. Ribis. Oh, skirts steak is my favorite. Uh oh, you know, chimichuri or chimpy. So chimichuri is actually my specialty. So I do. So I do like an authentic Argentinian chimichurries like two lenners or something. Yeah, that's very, very good. Um I like doing lamb, uh, chicken. I could roast it for like a couple hours and then very steak. Now everybody's hungry. Carne Asado.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:02

I could devour some like, you know, A5 wagu. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:05

Now we're talking about it. Oh my god. She's a beef allergy. I've never heard of it before.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:15

Our cat has a beef allergy.

unknown 1:21:17

Our cat.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:18

She's got a protein allergy.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:19

She's supposed to eat meat. She has a protein allergy. I'm like, she eats like she has to eat like a spirit type of protein. She has we've I mean we give her like rabbit because that's the only protein she can really digest.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:34

Panda the rune came over. And Panda the Rune came over and he was like, that's a Hindu cat.

unknown 1:21:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:41

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:42

What I think is that Panda the Rune touch that cat's the cat's soul, just like Panda.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:48

So guys, so Punda the Rune touched Brandon's life.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:50

Now he wants to go to Mundir. I've been telling Brennan, let's go to Mundir for years.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:54

Yeah. When you guys go, we will, I will definitely go. I love hearing that man speaking. Next Sunday, man. You down? I'm down.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:01

I will say that's I don't eat beef.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:02

Yeah, Rebecca doesn't eat beef.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:04

I don't I don't eat beef, I don't eat pork, I don't eat lamb, I don't eat goat. Yeah, I can't eat anything with a face. That's like my problem. Oh, really? I'm so I'm a huge animal.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

I love animals. Huge animal. It's very very gamey, a little fat. Um it's very similar to lamb. Lamb has a different consistency. Lamb's a little more gamey, right? It's got a little bit of a bite to it, a little bit of a chew. Beef, depending on the cut, could be a little tougher, a little bit more juicy, a little bit more. You have a snake?

unknown 1:22:33

No.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:34

Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:34

But it has got snake you try to chewy.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:38

Of course you did.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:40

Last question, last question before we go.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:42

Rebecca has a question. Oh, you want to do final four? Actually, we'll do final four with Ryan today. Um perfect role, Rebecca. Right? Uh for our community. How do we get more in tune with our mental health? And uh especially our parents who don't really give a hoot about that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:59

I think it's um what I talked about in the beginning, right? It's that hey, I have all these feelings, I have all these things that I'm going through, I have all these struggles, or sometimes you don't even need to be struggling to even go to mental health, right? Like mental health therapy. Like you don't need to have like something that you're struggling through, right? It's just you go to a doctor for a checkup, for a physical checkup, but you go to a therapist, right, for a mental checkup, right? And I even have clients like that too. They'll just come for like checkups, and I'm like, okay, cool, see you in two weeks. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:33

I know someone, I know someone like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:35

That yeah, it just becomes like a part of way of life.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:42

Once a week.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:43

To talk about what? No, yeah, just to check.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:46

Just to check.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:47

Yeah, that's what people go for. All right, guys, really quick. We only have a couple minutes left. We're gonna do a final four. Ryan, the final four is one quick question from all of us. Okay. So since you're here, you're gonna ask your wife a question too.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:58

You gotta go home with me, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:23:59

So Brenda, you'll go first. What's your question?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:03

My bad. You said that growing up, you were a publisher. Yeah. So one question was what was your favorite childhood book growing up?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:11

Oh, mine was Curious George. Yeah. Oh, great. Mine was do you guys know that one? Good night moon.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:15

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:16

Yeah, I love that book. My mom used to read me that book every single night.

SPEAKER_09 1:24:20

What is it about illustrations? Yeah, I remember that book. Good night. It was like a quicker book.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:23

It's like just um, you know, they're saying the animals are saying goodnight, like the, you know, like throughout the house, people are saying goodnight. It's just such a gentle, soft book. And honestly, I think it's my favorite because my mom used to every night, like she used to read to me every single night. So that's probably why.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:41

All right, and my my my final fourth question. So I know you hear words like trauma, yeah, toxic boundaries crossing the line, right? Are those like excuses of like taking like I don't know how like are those like excuses to avoid like like accountability?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:56

Like to like take action sometimes, sometimes, yeah. Therapy talk is a like a thing, right? Like sometimes, like I can hear it from like couples, clients, right? They throw in the therapy talk, but I'm like, yeah, but like do we know what that means though, right? Like you can't just like throw in words there and like, well, my therapist said this, and so I'm gonna say that, right? Like there has to be I think a good therapist will help their client with accountability and responsibility. Yeah, accountability and responsibility, right? Not everything happens to you, just as not everything happens because of you, right? And so, like I said, there is there's a balance in that, right? Like if you're screwing up in something or you screwed up in a relationship or you did you actually did something in that relationship, you take accountability for that. That's okay because you're a freaking human, you're a human and you're gonna mess up sometimes, right? And so if you were turning away from it and you're like, oh, well, this person was toxic and that person was toxic, right? Like you what are you doing to reflect inward, right? And if you're not able to reflect inward, then you're gonna repeat those things in the next relationship, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_08 1:26:13

Absolutely. Yeah, oh Brandon, you did I answer your question? Yeah, let's go with Brian. Only Ryan Philos. Yeah, yeah. Ryan first.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:20

Uh I guess my last question would probably have to be like, why do people in our community, right, always jokes about things that we need to take seriously? Yeah, right. Yeah. And be serious to think about things that we need that we joke about, that we could be joking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:34

I think they're uncomfortable. I'll be honest. I think they're uncomfortable. People are very uncomfortable with vulnerability, right? You get vulnerable and uh it gets awkward. Like, okay, this is awkward now. Like, why did they just say that? Or what just happened here, right? And so, and then people become apologetic for it, right? But I think it's discomfort, right? It's and I will people be like, oh, I bet you're psychoanalyzing me right now. I'm like, I'm not, but then when you say certain things, then I am, right? Because then I'm like, oh, what just happened there? Like something made you uncomfortable, something trigger, triggered. I'll use that word lightly. Something happened there where it struck a nerve or it struck something in you that you feel uncomfortable with. And now, yeah, to answer your question, that's what it is. I think it's discomfort. I will say, however, that I'm not trying to like dump on our community and like people feeling uncomfortable. I think that feeling uncomfortable and it's it's very difficult. I mean, I'm a therapist and I have times where it's very difficult for me to sit in discomfort, right? Like, do you know, like it's just like, oh, I really don't want to go there or I really don't want to do that thing, right? And it's like I'm a human too. And sometimes I'll remind my client that like I am also a human. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:49

So I gotta I gotta part two, because you just mentioned something that I really had to remember. We don't have too much. I don't know quick, real quick. So you being a therapist, right? Do you feel at times like you know, being the fact that you got your clients coming to you? Telling you certain things about their life. Do you feel at times that you actually need to go to a therapist to let out certain things as well?

SPEAKER_09 1:28:05

All right, all right. We can make time for the therapist.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:09

No, so therapists need therapists.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:12

I saw the uh Sopranos. I remember the Sopranos, the therapist, not a therapist.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:16

Yeah, therapists need therapists. Yeah, the mailman is like a chain. Yes. Therapists have I have a therapist. Yes. Yeah. I and I also not only therap, like I have a therapist, but also like I have like supervision from like, you know, like, you know, people in my in the practice too, right? Like we go to each other, we got group supervision, we talk about cases, we get like advice, we get like clinical input and stuff like that, right? But yeah, I have a therapist. I think therapists definitely need therapists. Like you hold so much for your clients, right? That I often have people ask me, like, do you take that home with you? Absolutely. Sometimes, yes, I do, because sometimes I can just leave it there at the door. I also have to process what just happened, right? And what they just said and what that experience felt like, right? If I'm trying to be like have that relational, like it's how can it not affect me, right? And so, yes, I do have my own therapist.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:11

Last question for Ryan. All right, Ryan's double mic'd up here.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:15

The pressure's on you, you it better be a good question. So I've got yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:18

One funny question, one really good question. So let's start with the uh start with the really good question. What is your goal as a mental health therapist in the West Indian community, especially the Indo-Caribbean community? You know, we have the highest suicide rates in the world. We have, especially in Ghana, we're I think we're top two out of out of the out of the entirety of the world for I think it's a hundred thousand per capita governance, right? I I believe so, yeah. So what is your goal and how can we mitigate some of those?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:45

Like I really want to help kids. I really want to help kids. Like I just want to see kids? I don't right now. Um it's not like I'm not like open to it, right? I haven't had a uh kid on my caseload in a really, really long time. But like I feel like what you name, Brian, right? Like resources. I want to figure out how to put more resources in the whether it's like a like nonprofit, whether it's sending something up there, you know what I mean? Like, and like, I don't know, like, you know, having it function from over here. Like, I don't know what the works is in it, but like I really want to give back in that way and like create resources for them. And I also know how um difficult that will be and how much pushback that will have, right? And so, like the dynamic, or like you said, over there is way different than it is here. But I think it starts in the home, right? It starts in the home. I want them to feel like they see someone like me, they can relate to someone like me, young kids, right? Young women, young men, right, especially I have a lot of male clients, right? And so actually, my favorite like population, my favorite type of client is a male client, right? Because I think there's so much there to unpack. And I feel like men's mental health gets like easily overlooked. And so, like, I'm a like a huge, like, you know, like a huge stand for that. But yeah, does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:06

That answers my question.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:07

Also, husband, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:08

Do you therapise me at home? Therapize me.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:12

There you go, therapy at home. You will never know.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:17

Well, I'm gonna start a podcast and saying life, it's gonna be called Life with a Therapist.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:23

Well, guys, before we close, no, but you oh sorry, sorry to cut you, but you also tell me you can't act like that. You're a therapist. I'm like, I'm not you're a therapist.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:34

I'm not working right now. Right now, I'm not working. She's off the clock, she can say what she wants. Off the clock.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:39

You guys are really entertaining. Um, one last thing before we go. Rebecca has a word for Brandon. I told you, Brandy.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:49

What the weird? I'm so sorry, but they said they they put me up to it.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:53

I knew it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:54

They put me up to it. You took the word earlier. Melancholy? Yeah, but did you try to figure that one out? If you try to figure that one out already, we can't do that.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:03

I had him spelled melancholy before.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:05

Oh.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:06

So melancholy. That's up. Oh, he knows it now.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:09

You know it now. Okay, my word is um narcissism. No, no, no, you can't.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:17

I spell narcissism.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:20

All right, so can you use it in a sentence, please? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:25

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:27

Um He suffered from his narcissism.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:30

Uh he Are we out of time? He suffered from He suffered from his dad's narcissism.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:36

Oh, alright, alright, alright. So just like in like how to be a millionaire, like, can I call a friend?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:41

Can you call Aren't your friends here?

SPEAKER_05 1:32:43

There's some of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:45

Can you call a friend? These are your rules.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:47

Sure. Narcissism. You got this. N. Alright. A. Yeah. R. And I think that's it for today's everyone tune in next week for the next episode. Thank you guys so much.

SPEAKER_09 1:33:00

I really appreciate it, guys. It was a really fun episode. And I hope everyone can learn something. I really appreciate your time, guys. Thanks.

SPEAKER_07 1:33:08

Oh my god, this is so much fun. Oh my god, please come back.