The Best Friend Project
When her best friendship ended, Rachel Joy Swardson went to the bathroom. Hundreds of them. She taped up postcards with a QR code in bathroom stalls, asking the question she was too hurt and humiliated to verbalize, "How do you do friendship?" Thousands of women answered, and their stories changed and healed her. So she brought them forward, here for you on The Best Friend Project podcast.
The Best Friend Project
Ep 4: ☎️ On the Phone | Michelle Mackenzie
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Hi! Have you listened to Episode Two: The Hidden Impact of Childhood Poverty on Friendship with Michelle and Elle?
When Michelle shared how growing up in poverty shaped her self-confidence as a child, I was speechless. I could have talked for another 30 minutes. On this phone call, I wanted to hear her reaction to the episode, but I also wanted to thank her for shining a light on the important, and often overlooked, impact poverty can have on a child's sense of security and self-perception. Her perspective is incredibly powerful, and I haven't stopped thinking about it.
If you haven't listened to Episode Two yet, I hope you will. Michelle's honesty, resilience, and extraordinary friendship with Elle are inspiring. I've seen listeners comment that they wish they had a friendship like theirs. Here's the thing—I believe they can. Michelle and Elle remind us that friendships like this are possible, and they're worth investing in.
Guest: Michelle Mackenzie (@TheLifeofaWidow)
🎙️ The Best Friend Podcast explores how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original friendship research, honest conversations, and unforgettable stories.
Take the survey and share your friendship story at TheBestFriendProject.co.
Hi Michelle, it's Rachel. Hi, Rachel. Hi, how are you? Hi, friend. I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm glad to chat with you. Oh, I'm just dying to hear your reaction to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, it was lovely because I didn't know what Lindsay had already said about me. So it was it was a lot more emotional. I think especially for me, her mentioning uh my husband's little good luck charm. I just that was just that that was so nice that that meant something. And then to hear um, to hear back my you know, us talking about friendship, it really brought to mind a lot of um uh a lot of things that I hadn't maybe solidified before about sort of my journey in friendship and um how much that had meant to me, the support that I received uh when my husband passed away, and just the lovely reminder that even in the hardest times um you can still create a meaningful connection with somebody and uh and have that be a source of support and joy and love.
SPEAKER_00Oh good. I'm so relieved. Michelle, I hadn't even thought of the fact that you hadn't heard everything that El said.
SPEAKER_01No, and I popped in and and ever and you guys were emotional. I was like, oh, what did I miss?
SPEAKER_00Oh, right, and here we were just bawling our eyes out over how amazing you are. Oh good.
SPEAKER_01Well, it was lovely.
SPEAKER_00Good. And I want to thank you too for bringing up the impact that growing up in poverty had on your self-worth. And I don't know if ever I really heard someone say it the way that you did.
SPEAKER_01Um Yeah, it's such a foundational time. Like I look at people who have um very strong friendships that they've always had since elementary school. And I don't have that, you know, like as you're grown up, you sort of look around and you you assess what you think is normal. Um, and I was just very aware that what we were living through was not very normal. And on top of that, I also had the worry that um because things were not normal, that we might be taken into care. And um, it was just it was kind of always in the back of my mind. I do remember, and I will say I don't have a lot of memories from childhood because I think that's like a bit of a self-preservation thing as well. My my older brother did. He was always the one that I went to to like as my memory jogger. Unfortunately, he passed away um seven years ago. And so uh uh I I don't have like a lot of the recollection of certain things, but I do remember um being in our first house and a man coming to visit and this being like a very stressful moment in time that like what might happen. Um, and so part of the like holding people away for me was like a safety thing. Like if people really knew that we were all of us living in this one bedroom, then we would be taken away, is was the fear that I had. I don't know how true that was. Maybe they may the council would have given us a bigger house. I don't know. But as a kid, you don't know that. And so that was a big fear um around poverty and was safety and what would that mean. Um, and so it's interesting looking back at it. Now, I actually um uh I've been doing some audiobook narration, and the book that I've just finished is a memoir about a lady who was abused in the Scottish childcare system. I'm reliving that fear that I had as a kid that we might end up in care. That's been a very emotional process. But yeah, as a kid, you just you you build those foundations of what friendship is. And I think if that ever feels rocky, then it's not really a big surprise that as adults we can we can struggle with that, right?
SPEAKER_00I um am so sorry for the loss of your brother, and I can only imagine how many memories he held um for you. And thank you for sharing all of that. I am so glad to hear that you are using your voice to do narration. I not only love your voice and but I love what you have to say, and I'm so glad that we will continue to be able to hear your voice um when we listen to that book. Would you mind sharing the title in case people want to find it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's called I Thought You Cared, and it's uh about betrayal and abuse in the Scottish childcare system, and the author is Holly Alex.
SPEAKER_00Okay, great. Um, thank you for sharing that. I'm so grateful that I had an opportunity to meet you and share you with our audience.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm really grateful and really honored to be asked, and you know, I I will just say something about Elle became friends with her because I already followed her and just thought that she was so warm and funny and lovely. Um, and then when you meet somebody in real life and they are just they are who you thought they were, but they're better, you know. She is just so um warm and lovely and funny and so funny, but also it's uh a certain energy that she has where there's no judgment. I think I always worry with with people, and maybe it is because of my lack of foundation as a kid, but I I think it's kind of human as well that we worry about like what people think of us. She doesn't come with any of that judgment. I think that's so rare. I think that's something that we could all probably emulate a little bit better. So I was really grateful that I got to share that experience with her and really just treasure and value her friendship so much. So thank you for thank you for doing that for us.
SPEAKER_00Wow. I mean, what a what a what an honor um for me. And I'm so grateful that I got to see the example of your friendship. It really helped me reframe a lot of of the things that I've been struggling with and uh really just trying to understand how do we find, make, and keep meaningful friendship in our lives. And uh you two are a shining example of that. So thank you for the quick call and for spending so much time um on the podcast. And I'm just grateful to know you, Michelle.
SPEAKER_01Oh, thank you. You two, and I'm so excited to um to keep listening to the podcast. I thought it was so well done, and uh I'm I'm excited to hear all the other stories. This is such a necessary conversation. So I'm very I'm very glad that you shared it with us.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.