Politics is Personal with Leslie + Cole
Politics is Personal is a weekly video and audio podcast hosted by former Colorado legislators Leslie Herod and Cole Wist. Built on a real friendship forged through years of legislative work, the show brings together a Black queer Democrat from Denver and a straight white former Republican from rural Colorado to have the kinds of honest, complicated conversations that feel increasingly rare in American politics.
Rooted in the “Colorado Way,” the podcast offers a grounded, relatable approach to national conversations. Designed for the “exhausted majority,” Politics is Personal invites listeners back into political dialogue with curiosity, respect, and the belief that real conversation is still possible.
Politics is Personal with Leslie + Cole
EP 6: Knicks, Trans Ballots, and Water Regulation | Politics is Personal with Leslie + Cole
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This week on Politics is Personal, Leslie Herod and Cole Wist cover everything from basketball to ballot measures to one of Colorado's most precious resources: water.
The episode kicks off with a conversation about the New York Knicks, sports fandom, and why major cultural moments often become part of our political conversations. Then Leslie and Cole dive into the debate surrounding transgender-related ballot initiatives in Colorado, exploring the arguments, concerns, and values driving the discussion from different perspectives.
Finally, they unpack Colorado's ongoing water challenges—from conservation and growth to the difficult decisions facing communities across the West. What happens when politics, population growth, agriculture, and climate pressures all compete for the same resource?
As always, Politics is Personal isn't about winning arguments. It's about having the conversations many people are having around their own dinner tables—with curiosity, respect, and a willingness to listen.
Hey everybody, welcome to Politics is Personal with Leslie and Cole. I'm Cole West.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Leslie Harrod. We have an interesting and fun show for you all today. We will be talking about the gubernatorial race on the Republican side, wild, and the Democratic side. We're going to be chatting about, uh we're going to have Nadine on with One Colorado talking a little bit about um trans rights issues that will be on the ballot, or no non-rights, if you will. And then we'll be what's in our feet talking about water. It's all over the board. We're gonna have a good time. Okay.
SPEAKER_03I'm wearing neck stocks. Go next, go next. Um, what I have to say, that was one of the most amazing, certainly one of the most amazing basketball games I've ever seen. Probably one of the most amazing sporting events I've I've ever seen. Largest comeback in NBA playoff history. I was this close to turning the TV off in the third quarter to go over and watch my nightly geek out of Jeopardy. Uh but it was just, it was an amazing time. What a wonderful time for New York City. Yeah, I am rooting for the Knicks. I'm not an anti-Spurs guy for any by any means, but when the Nuggets got knocked out, um, I just think the fact that the the Spurs, I mean, the the Knicks are in the NBA championship for the first time since 99, and what a cool thing for the city.
SPEAKER_01And I've seen so many clips in my feed of New Yorkers saying, we're gonna talk to each other. If I see a guy with a Knicks hat, I'm gonna say hi, and there's no beef. There's no beef. It's so funny to watch. And I will tell you, I watched the game too, and um I'm not necessarily a sportsball person, but I was a cheerleader, so I do know some of the some of the stuff. And it was so funny because I was with a group of amazing black women. We had a buy-out of LaFrenche restaurant um in um in Denver, and we were you know having our dinner, having our talks and everything, and then the game got so close, it's like we stopped, and I think the staff was like, I hope these women either leave or want to watch the game. And we all watched the game together, and it really brought us together in those last like what five minutes of the game. It was literally insane. And I gotta tell you, I'm a Knicks fan too. Yeah, it was amazing. And and I think it's so funny because maybe the Trump curse lifted towards the end of the game because I know folks were worried that the that there was a Trump curse on the game, but uh, I think I think things obviously worked out.
SPEAKER_03I think they had won like 13 games in a row. And then Donald Trump came to game three, they lost. Yeah. Uh, you know, and I I was thinking if the Knicks lose this series, and you know, I'd i we could still have a San Antonio comeback, they could come back and win three games. I think, you know, the history's and and the odds are probably on the Knicks' side here. But probably good for President Trump that the Knicks won game four, because I I I can't imagine that would go well for him with Knicks' fans.
SPEAKER_01They're definitely blaming him. Yeah. Um but aside from that, I will say that it's so interesting because maybe this is the week where I've seen the least of Trump in my feed, and I see more of the Colorado gubernatorial race um dominating my media feed, not just local but national, because why? On the Republican ticket, we have Victor Marks, who has been saying some insane things. Shout, shout out hat tip to Kyle Clark, who has been crushing these um these debates. But what's going on with uh the Republican side?
SPEAKER_03Well, who shows up for a debate with their dog on the stage? I mean, honest to God, I thought it was AI for a minute. Uh, and you've probably seen the clip now that's gone viral. It's been on John Oliver, yeah. Where uh basically Victor Marx says back to call Kyle Clark, are you calling my dog a liar? And then the dog's like sitting there. But you know, I mean, I as as I've told folks, um, look, I think the best thing that could happen to the Republican Party in Colorado would be if Barb Kirkmeyer could win the primary. I know you're probably not a Barb Kirkmeyer fan. Um I I I think Barb Kirkmeyer is an accomplished legislator. I think she's qualified to be governor compared to the other two candidates on the Republican side. And I I just think it would be at least refreshing to have a a campaign between two candidates that are qualified that can talk substantively about the issues and not have you know the the debate be about crazy towns.
SPEAKER_01Sure, but I think you I think you said the right thing compared to the other candidates, Barb looks good. If she was actually running against, and then maybe she will, and debate uh a Phil Weiser or a Michael Bennett, I think we would see that she also is not the candidate that the Republican Party, quite frankly, needs or wants. And when I talked when we I we have to stick with this, Victor Marx went on Kyle Clark on television and said that he killed people as a child and does not know how many people he has murdered as an adult.
SPEAKER_03After a like a 10-second pause, yeah, it was one of the creepiest things I think I've ever seen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And Scott Bottoms is no better. You know, I I I can't remember exactly how I put it, phrased it before, but he's one of the most hateful people that I've ever served with in the General Assembly. Um and he also got into it during the debate. And it was the things that were coming out of his mouth were equally as wild. You know, he he's he he's he's saying that he's working with the FBI to uncover some election stuff, election fraud stuff that we know is not true or real, bottoms.
SPEAKER_03Is this the pedophile ring at the Capitol? The pedophile ring at the Capitol.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it is like, what are you talking about? And where is the proof? And he said, well, the proof it just makes no sense. And these are the people who are running on the Republican ticket, and I think it's a shame. I think Barb only looks good because she's running next to them. I would love to see her run next, run against a Phil Weiser or Michael Bennett. We would still keep the state solidly blue. Who do you guys have on the bench on the Republican side that you would actually like to see running as a Republican Republican uh candidate for governor? Who would you want?
SPEAKER_03I think a lot of the people that I would like to see you're probably have moved in into the unaffiliated ranks. But um look, I I I think it'll be interesting to watch what happens after Trump leaves office. Will the Republican Party shift back to to being something that's more normal? Um will MAGA's influence continue to to exist and and will we nominate candidates based on that? But you know, I I was asked yesterday uh in an interview whether or not as an unaffiliated voter I was gonna return the Democratic or or Republican ballot. Uh and my answer was if I was gonna return the Democratic ballot, it would be for two reasons. First of all, to make sure billionaires aren't buying the governor's office, out-of-state billionaires, and number two, um, I I want to have a qualified, competent lawyer to be the attorney general of our state. If I return the Republican ballot, it would be a vote for normalcy. Yeah. A vote for somebody sane uh and somebody who would at least I think bring some legitimate policy discussion.
SPEAKER_01I don't even know who's running uh as a Republican for the other the uh down ballot races, and it's so interesting because ballots are in the mail right now. Right. So Coloradans, your ballots are in the mail. If you're independent, you get a Democratic and a Republican Democratic and a Republican ballot, and you have to only return pick and return one to vote on.
SPEAKER_03So let's let's talk about that for a second because I I do know a little bit about the AG's race on the Republican side. Um I think the leading candidate is the district attorney from Colorado Springs, who will likely be the Republican candidate for A. G. I think a risk for the Democrats, frankly, is if they if the Democrats nominate the wrong candidate, and I think you know who I think the wrong candidate will be, Jenna Griswold. Disagree. I think it opens the door for Republicans to possibly have a chance to win a statewide statewide race. I think it's the only statewide race the Republicans have a shot to win. But don't forget, we've had a lot of Republican AGs, even in a long string of Democratic governors. So, you know, Democrats might want to think carefully about that AG's race.
SPEAKER_01I think it'll be really interesting, and I do support Jenna. I think she'll make a great AG, and quite frankly, I think that I know she's an amazing campaigner, uh, and so I'm not worried about her winning uh statewide. Um but let me answer my own question for a second. You know who I think would be a good um Republican governor candidate?
SPEAKER_03Who's that?
SPEAKER_01Shannon Byrd. Oh Shannon Byrd. Shannon Byrd is running as a Democrat in CD8. And watching her debate performance um this past week, she was strong. She was solid. I have served with Shannon. We don't align on many issues. In fact, I think she is more of a Republican than she claims to be. Um, I think she knows she's very smart that she should run as a Democrat if she wants to win, um, win a seat, and that's why she initially ran as a Democrat. I think as she's been serving, she has been voting more with the Republicans than any other Democrat. And I don't mean Cole whist Republicans, I mean the the wild Republicans that are there right now. Um and quite and and hearing her views, she sounds very Republican to me. And I just don't understand why folks who are independent or folks who are Democrats who are, I would say, uh more to the right, don't actually take over that Republican Party and run as Republicans.
SPEAKER_03So tell me what you mean by that, that she sounds Republican.
SPEAKER_01Her her views are her policy views are more conservative when it comes to immigration, when it comes to ICE, when it comes to fiscal policy. Um she does vote more with the Republicans, and she spoke, she's with the way that she spoke about even oil and gas policy, maybe we should get into that one of these days. Um please let's get into oil and gas. Exactly, exactly. She was on the other side of the issues than the Democrats. She does not align with the party. Um, but she is a strong candidate. And watching that debate, um, I was definitely going in hoping for Manny to do a great job, and quite frankly, I'm not sure that he did.
SPEAKER_03So is the only legitimate position for Democrats, and I mean this question in all sincerity, as a person that battled on oil and gr gas issues, and I was known as a proponent of the oil and gas industry when I was in the legislature. You know, I I've heard folks attack Manny Rutinell, for example, for now saying he's for an all of the above p policy when it comes to energy, which which frankly is my position on energy, which is we need all of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That that's a sellout to the Democrats. No, no. Why is that?
SPEAKER_01I don't think that's I don't think that's the case. I think that you can disagree with the Democratic Party on a whole slate of core value issues, be that um equality, be that um oil and gas, be that immigration, be that abortion access. You can you can disagree on any of those policies and still be a Democrat. It's when you disagree with the Democratic Party on all of those policies that I say maybe that's not your actual party and you shouldn't be affiliated. And that's how I feel about Shannon. I don't know where she aligns with the Democratic Party ticket and the values of the Democrats, and I do see her alignment more with the sane Republicans, I will say. And I'm and I don't mean this any in any disparaging way. Um she does remind me of someone, if she she would have served with you, that you guys would have aligned pretty closely and probably crossed the aisle a few times, right, on some of our issues. Um, but she is not she is not a Democrat. And that I heard again during the debate that frustrated me, but she would be a darn hard Republican candidate to beat.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean CD 8 is unique. It's a third Republican, a third Democrat, a third unaffiliated. Yeah. Um there's a large oil and gas presence in C D 8. Um I think it's very mixed from a socio and economic standpoint, from a from a uh ethnicity standpoint. So frankly, I think kudos to Shannon Byrd for looking at the district and trying to to make sure that she's talking about issues that the district believes in. Frankly, I when the Democrats, and I think Shannon Byrd is a pro-business Democrat. That's kind of how I would characterize her. Yeah. It's dangerous for me if the Democrats say, if you're pro-business, if you are for less regulation, if you're trying to provide an environment where there's less taxes, and an economy where we're gonna uh be building jobs, that that's a sellout or that that's not a democratic.
SPEAKER_01That's not just one issue. And I do agree with you, and I've been called that as well, because I do believe that we have over-regulated as Democrats. Um and so, you know, I think, anyways, I think we as we talk about her and as we see her perform, and maybe she does go into the general, or maybe it's Manny, I think we'll learn more about where her values truly are, but I would say look into the policies.
SPEAKER_03Um can we talk about Manny for a second?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_03Go ahead. Um You know, I I I I I don't I don't know Manny. Uh I know you uh are are supporting him, but uh it seems to me that his campaign is is in a rut. Um seems like he's got some credibility issues, like he's changed some positions on some pretty significant issues. Does he have a credibility problem?
SPEAKER_01You know, I do think that that debate was tough on him. I think it showed that he is still a very new politician, if you will, and I think that's what maybe his appeal is for CD8 and many voters. Um but he he got a little uh caught in the camera headlights there. Uh and I think there was expectations that he would perform better, and he didn't. So but before we end the segment, I do want to real quick give you the floor to talk about the new polling in on the democratic side of the gubernatorial race.
SPEAKER_03Well, it sounds like Phil Weiser is overtaking Michael Bennett. Um, and for all the reasons we've been talking about, that people are just not comfortable with the large influence that that out-of-state big money is having on this race. Uh I've always thought that Phil Weiser was the candidate to beat in this race. And who knows? Can you believe polling? You know, who who can tell? And I think a lot a lot of it will depend on where unaffiliated voters are and and who you know how many of them are are voting in the Democratic pri primary. Uh I think it's looking pretty darn good for Phil Weiser right now.
SPEAKER_01What are you what are the odds? What are you saying?
SPEAKER_03Uh I'd say 60-40 Phil Weiser right now. I think it's tipping pretty substantially in his favor, particularly in the home stretch. And like we talked about last week, I think all the momentum is is is in his in his is with the Weiser campaign.
SPEAKER_01Dang. All right, well, we'll see. Um thank you all so much. Uh we will also next be having our good friend Nadine to talk about the trans ballot issues that will be coming on the ballot in November, and maybe a little bit about pride. Uh, and you know, get into some of the LGBTQ issues of the day. Welcome back to Politics is Personal. We have our amazing guest today, Nadine with OneColorado. Uh, and we are so happy to have you, my my dear friend. It's good to see you.
SPEAKER_02It's great to see you as well. I'm glad to be here and looking forward to the conversation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, today we want to talk about LGBTQ issues, particularly trans issues, but we know that it doesn't just impact trans people. Um, and your organization is one of the leading organ is the leading organization fighting for our rights. You know, um, I am a black queer woman in case anyone forgot. Uh so I want to thank you for fighting to protect my rights. Um but why don't you talk a little bit about your work at One Colorado?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, you know, One Colorado has been around for over 16 years. Um, most of the rights and protections that we have in the states over the work that we have done in the last 16 years, really making sure that we move from being the hate state uh to the great state when it comes to being a sanctuary for LGBTQ rights, and a lot of folks have been coming here um because of the work that we've done. I have been a part of the organization for five years. Actually, today they asked me what my start date was, and it's January 19th, 2021. Wow. So it was right when there was a shift. Shift to um uh President Biden, and then we shifted have shifted back, and I've seen a lot. Never have I ever never would I have ever thought that we would be in the situation right now or having the conversations that we we are. Um and also I am deeply proud of the the courage and the intentionality that Coloradans have for these issues. Um what I know is that Coloradans love their freedom, um, and they want to ensure that all people can thrive in the state of Colorado, which creates a great opportunity for us to continue to protect and defend the rights that we have been so successful about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because Colorado's passed many laws that support LGBTQ people, families, kids, um, and and and I think that's pretty amazing. It's one thing I'm really proud of in the state, but there has been a lot of attacks. Can you talk about some of the attacks that are happening right now that um really will impact people's everyday lives right here in Colorado?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I said like I said, I you know, Colorado has leaned in and been a leader on uh protecting all LGBTQ plus rights, but in particular, we've been a sanctuary for transgender, non-binary, and gender expansive um community uh and their families. A lot of folks have been coming here from Texas and Oklahoma and Florida, um just really seeking solace and the opportunity to thrive. I know um Cole, you were saying earlier you're from Peonia, and I've met families in Peonia who've moved closer to that area so that they can still travel to see their families from other states. And um what's deeply concerning to me, there's a couple of areas, right? We have uh school boards right now, and a lot of school boards are really intentionally causing harm to trans kids, um, whether it has to do with pronouns, um, whether it has to do with uh being able to participate in sports. Um we get phone calls all the time in that in that arena. At a state level, we have a lot of protections, um, but at a local level it can be really difficult and nuanced. Um and right now, unfortunately, we've uh on the November ballot will be two uh initiatives. One is a sports ban, um, the other one is a medical ban. Um, and a lot of folks are shocked. They're really just shocked that this even happened. Um and we have a lot of an uphill battle around these two um these these two measures. Um but we're really hopeful that in the end that we will defeat anti-trans negativity um and demonstrate that Colorado is a blueprint and how to be successful when it comes to LGBTQ plus rights, and this nation is watching us to see what we do next.
SPEAKER_03Well, Nadine, welcome to Politics is Personal. Uh, this is the first time you and I have had a chance to meet, and I really appreciate you coming on the program. I I will say that one Colorado was not always my biggest fan when I was in the legislature. Could have been the fact that I that I had an R after my name, it could have been because of some of my votes. But uh I think you know the most important part of this issue for me is uh people continuing to learn, people continuing to evolve in their thinking, and people understanding, and Leslie and I got into this a little bit last week, and that is uh these are our neighbors, these are our friends, these are our sons and daughters, and aunts and uncles, these are members of our community. And above all else, I just want to express to you my firm belief that I think everyone in our state and everyone in our country deserves to be treated with respect. They shouldn't be discriminated against based on who they are, they should be respected for who they are. But obviously, you know, these things become political. Uh and I will tell you that I I can't like Leslie cast a number of votes when I was in the legislature. If there's one vote uh that I would like to go back and redo, it would be on gay conversion therapy. Um that bill came up in the three years that I was in the legislature, and I voted no on uh the gay conversion ban. I probably would vote differently today if I could take that vote. And it's interesting that the Supreme Court is now weighed in, and I certainly won't want to hear from you on that today. You know, I mean, but there there were reasons that I had that vote, and candidly I did struggle with it from the standpoint that I think parents want to be able to have some autonomy in terms of how they're raising their children, and also people should have access to care. And I understand we have a very firm disagreement about whether or not that's a legitimate therapy, but when it comes to uh doctors being able to treat patients, we want to be very respectful of that relationship. So, on a personal level, I just want to let you know I'm here to learn, I'm here to have a conversation with you, and certainly wanted to be respectful because I can tell you I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago, and I'm continuing to evolve on these things, and thank God for my three daughters who are always continuing to challenge me and continuing to encourage me to think about uh these issues from a new perspective.
SPEAKER_02Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you. Um you know, my hope always is that I can have have a conversation, understand commonalities, um, and figure out where we can connect. And I think um you know, for one Colorado in particular, we're a nonpartisan organization. Um and one Colorado education fund is public education, right? And regardless of whether you have an R, an I, or D. Whatever it is, or you're not involved at all, my job is to make sure that I can talk to you around the issues and figure out how we can move forward. And I'll give you a perfect example of this. Many years ago, when I first started, many years ago, it feels like a hundred years ago. A hundred years ago. But when I first started at One Colorado, um, we opened up an office in Pueblo. And a lot of folks were wondering why? What are we doing? And not only did we open up office in Pueblo, we opened it up so that we could do food insecurity work. And everybody was like, what are you doing? Why what is why does One Colorado need to be a part of this? And my reasoning was a couple of things. One, many people struggle in the state of Colorado around food insecurity. LGBTQ folks are disproportionately impacted by food insecurity. Also, anybody who's ever been to a food bank knows that you're not always treated with respect. You're not allowed to ask for what you want. They'll give you a hundred boxes of lucky charms, nothing wrong with lucky charms, but you may not have fresh vegetables. Meat. You should be grateful for whatever we're handing you. So when we went down into Pueblo, we had conversations with folks on the dignity of the worth of a person. How do you feel when you move into when you go to these places? Do they treat you with respect? Do they treat you with kindness? And then once we started to build that relationship and empathy around that, then we started to have conversations around like what do you think that would be for a trans person, non-binary person, for an LGBTQ plus person. And those folks, out of the it's been about four years now, they've become our biggest allies. Um, and they are mainly above the age of 60 who attended those groups, and mainly cisgender and heterosexual, right? And so for me, it's not about what political ideology you have, because frankly, LGBTQ plus folks are a part of every political ideology. That's right. They're a part of every ability, um, immigration status. And so to me, it's like how do we really uh pay attention to what the real issues are: clean water, food access, education, behavioral health. And that's really what we should be focusing on. The fact that we're even leaning into these ideas on telling parents who they, you know, how they should raise their young people when it comes to trans young kids, or really penalizing professionals, medical professionals, around how they should be serving the community. Um, that's not what the conversation should be. And what I have found in everywhere, whether I'm in Lamar or URA or Pueblo or right even here in Denver, that that's really what people want to have conversations about, not these issues. So I'm glad that from your standpoint that you understood that Coloradoans want to thrive, right? We don't want to just survive, we want to thrive in the state of Colorado. And that means sometimes we have to move away from the social issues and really think about the long-term aspects. Again, Colorado is going to be a blueprint, I think, for how we can do this work. We're building a foundation and how we do this work well, and that's a part of these types of conversations.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think it's a really it's the human part of things. And so I just want to tell you, Cole, um, thank you for seeing us as people and humans and stepping out and saying, you know what, I was wrong on that vote. Um, conversion therapy is extremely dangerous. Um, and you know, I think the journey of someone like you, and I mean that intentionally, um, to be here on our issues is really something that I I hope more people can see. Um, because at the end of the day, what you're talking about, what you're talking about, is the fact that LGBTQ people, all of us are human beings, and that's where we should start. But that is not where we are right now. No, um, it is about othering, and it is about demonizing. And so, right now we have a big conversation going on about you know, should trans kids be able to play sport? Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so let's be clear here. Like, this is not about protecting young girls in sports at all, although that's the way they're trying to put it out there. The reality of this is this is their agenda about riling up their face. Kevin Lundberg literally said that, you know, he wants to make sure that his people show up to the ballots, um, show up to vote for his people. Um, they don't care. They're not they're using our language around feminism, you know, to say like this is what's important to them, and they want girls to be successful, but that's not what it is. They're not talking about boys at all in protection. In fact, they're really making it sound like girls are fragile. Yeah. Um, and they they shouldn't be competing or they're afraid of the harm that can be caused. But that's not what it's out at all. They're taking the smallest group of people, the smallest group of kids, and making assumptions about that and putting fair in our communities in a way that is deeply harmful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because we don't even know if there are trans kids playing sports in Colorado or how many or what issue that how big of an issue it really is, but it will turn out the base.
SPEAKER_03So, what what are the numbers on that?
SPEAKER_02I mean, do you we'd actually don't have the numbers? They're not collecting, there's no collection around trans students versus uh trans athletes versus not.
SPEAKER_01So, how does this how is this enforced though? I want to be this is this is why this issue I think is so dangerous. And I don't know if you've read the the ballot measure, but it's been going around in the communities and the petitions and everything, and they will be making the ballot. Um it basically says that if there is a question about whether or not someone is a girl or a boy, right, that their genitalia basically will have to be examined.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, so let's what the what the right is saying on this is that they do they will not be examining genitalia, right? What they're saying is it's a simple cheek swab. But here's a couple of questions to that, right? Like a a DNA swab? Yeah, so that's my question.
SPEAKER_03Of a child?
SPEAKER_02Of a young person, right?
SPEAKER_03Okay, what are the constitutional issues associated with that?
SPEAKER_02That's my question. Right. That is exactly what I have been asking is like, first of all, who gets to decide whether a young person, especially a girl, is strong enough, masculine enough, of a love based on what they're saying, big enough, small enough? I know I've had friends when I was younger who were way taller than I was in the fourth, fifth, sixth grade. So then do you look at that young person and say, oh, they have to have a cheek swab? Who collects that information? If it goes further on that, what does that look like? Um, every school district, we all know this, like we have local control. Who gets to make these decisions? Um, who's going to enforce those decisions? And it's frankly just really creepy to me that anybody would look at a young kid and be like, hey, little boy, or hey, little girl, like here, we're gonna do this cheek swab to make sure that you can play a sports.
SPEAKER_03So what are the issues around consent there? Because I think there are some legitimate questions about whether a child is of age um and legally uh uh legally in a position to consent. Exactly to essentially what's a search of their body. Right. Right. So what what do those issues look like? I assume you're talking to lawyers about what that looks like.
SPEAKER_02We're talking to everyone about a lot of pieces right now, trying to figure out what's what's gonna stick, what's not going to stick. What I can tell for from talking to Coloradans is that what we're starting to see is that they're saying, like, what is like I may not understand this issue, but I'm not even sure that I should be the one making this decision. Right, exactly. The reality is that the language itself is very unclear, it's very ambiguous about all these pieces called that you're asking right now, and we need to figure all that out. And if that's the case and you have questions like that, you certainly be shouldn't be voting yes on this. You should be voting no because there's a lot of parameters that need to go into making sure that whatever the next steps are, that this isn't it.
SPEAKER_03So go ahead. What do you what are you hearing from school boards? Because you know, we have a uh it's it's over a hundred school boards or school districts in the state. We have a long tradition of of local control. Um I can see this being enforced very differently, yeah, district to district. So, how do you ensure, assuming the ballot measure passes, how do you ensure some consistency in terms of how this works?
SPEAKER_02I mean, if you have an answer, let me know because that's a million-dollar question, right? I mean, we've seen that even just the way we enforce um just sports in general across uh the state of Colorado, and I don't think there's an answer to it. Um, and frankly, that's really scary to me. I've seen in some school districts where they've really come down on um on trans, non-binary, gender expansive folks, or even just around allowing LGBTQ flags. Um so this is not it. Like this is we don't have an enforcement mechanism for this. Um, and we certainly don't want to put our teachers, our principals, um, our educators at all in a position where they have to be making these decisions. I know, like, if I were a coach, I would not have to want I would not have want to be accountable to a decision like this, Valaman.
SPEAKER_01So, you know, I think, well, the people who I'm talking to, right, think there's no way Colorado is gonna pass anything like that. Um, Colorado is so supportive of LGBTQ issues, there's no way anything like that is gonna pass. And I think taking it not seriously is a threat to all of us and a threat to the work. And so, how is it looking? What is it, what what are Coloradans saying? Do you have polling? Like, what's it looking like?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, right now we have polling. It's certainly winnable, um, but it's gonna be an uphill battle. Winnable for them or winnable for her. It's certainly winnable for us. We can beat these measures, um, but it's an uphill battle. Like the reality is that Coloradans don't believe that they they're still shocked that this is even on the ballot, um, that it made it through, and they believe that Coloradans will simply vote no on it. Um, we know that that's not the case. We have a lot of work to do to make sure that people um cut down the disinformation and misinformation that's been put out there about trans people. Um we would want to make sure that even cisgender heterosexual families understand the direct impact this will have on their families. Um and not just this, even with the 110 with the medical ban, um, it could have a direct impact on young people, especially around testicular cancer. The language is very odd for young people around alterations. Um, so there's a lot of conversations that need to be had around these two measures. Um, and I think I firmly believe that once folks understand um what this potentially could do, they'll vote no.
SPEAKER_03So, could we could we talk about messaging? Because I think messaging is so critical uh on this issue, and and I can certainly see a path uh for this to pass. Not because I think people are bigoted, I mean and there are some people out there that are, okay? And let's say that there's a certain segment of our population that are gonna vote that way because there's hate there, because there's bigotry there, and and there's not a whole lot that we can do to fix that.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_03But with ballot initiatives, frankly, it's about do they understand the language? Is it clear? Um and frankly, I just throw this out there for for your consideration, but I think one of the one of the mistakes that the Democrats have made, and I think this happened in the last presidential election, was that Republicans are winning some of these big cultural issues in terms of the way they're framing it. Um and the way Republicans have addressed this issue is do you want men to play in women's sports? Right. And that's the way the president has addressed it. Men. So that's the way that that the Republicans have framed it. Um and frankly, I guess if I were providing strategic and political advice uh to folks that are opposed to this ballot initiative, it would be as much as possible, and Leslie's been a huge influence on me in this respect, and that is let's protect kids.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_03Because kids are so vulnerable. These these are kids that are trying to figure out who they are and how to express themselves in a variety of ways. That seems to be a many a winning message uh to talk about protecting kids who are very vulnerable as opposed to sort of yielding the floor to this, do you want men to play in women's sports? Because I can certainly bet that those are the ads that we're gonna be seeing on the pro side. So what what's what's your response to that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean uh obviously um for the campaign, that's their campaign, right, is Protect Kids Colorado. Um, but I my response to that always is what kids, right? When you are intentionally singling out a group of kids, which uh unintentionally or intentionally will harm other kids, that is not about protecting kids at all. That's about discrimination, um, and that's about causing harm. And I need folks to be really clear around that. We say family is not politics, because the reality is that politicians should not be making decisions about medical decisions about your young person at all. This is a family decision. This is a decision where families and medical providers and experts should be able to make a decision on what is going to what the direction is going to be for the young person. So we want people to be accountable to that, right? We want them to understand that this is not just like sweeping a decision around protecting kids. You don't protect one group of kids and then harm another group of kids intentionally. Um, and so that's really what and that has rung true. I think you're right, Cole, that a lot of folks have just said overall, like, yeah, I want to protect kids. And once we start to get down to like, well, let's talk about what this really means, right? What does it mean when again your daughter, who may be six feet by the seventh grade, and suddenly somebody is making an assumption around masculinity or how big they are, that's not protecting kids. That's invading their privacy and harming their dignity. Um, and that's just not okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm I think that's really important. And you know, I think we've had this conversation, um, and it is so interesting to me the perception on the right of how we got to this issue today, and maybe that the Democrats have overplayed their hand when it comes to LGBTQ equality, um, especially the the T equality. Um, and that's for for trans folks. And so have the Democrats gotten it wrong? And where do you think where do you think that where do you think things went went sideways there? Because we were gaining ground.
SPEAKER_02We were gaining ground. Um, you know, I I what I'll say about Dems in general is like this is not an issue that you want to be quiet about. Um, people are watching you. You are not, when you are a civil servant, you serve everyone. Um you don't get to choose and say suddenly, uh, I don't know if this is an electable opportunity for me. We've seen what's happened in other states right now when folks uh when down when Democrats themselves don't support trans issues, they're not winning. Right? The reality is your job is to serve all community. And we want to make sure that you're showing up at all times. And for one Colorado, we will hold folks accountable for not throwing up for trans community. This is not a this is not a time to put your head in the sand.
SPEAKER_01But have we talked about it too much, equality too much, in a way that has turned off people and allowed this ballot measure to be the galvanizing issue on the right?
SPEAKER_02That's another question again.
SPEAKER_01And it's hard for me to ask it because obviously I I have my opinions on it. Um, but you know, I think folks have have said you talk about you can talk about LGBTQs too much, and that's what people are annoyed. You talk about pronouns too much. Why do we have to do pronouns? So now I'm anti-pronouns. How are you anti-pronouns? You know, yeah, you know how I feel about these issues. Um I'm like, what do you mean? I'm I haven't talked about this issue more than any other issue, but that is how it is played. And so do you feel like it has been overplayed by the Democrats?
SPEAKER_02No, not at all. I think that these are the issues that are out there right now. Again, these are the most vulnerable of our community members, and you most certainly have to stand up to them. And I mean this for everything. Like what I keep saying, and what I started out with is like LGBTQ plus folks are a part of every community, whether it's around reproductive rights, whether it's around immigrant rights, you know, bodily autonomy, that is all of our issues. That means that everything that's out there, you should be fighting for. And this is right now what's happening. They know that the right understands what they're doing, and our job is to stop them and to continue to move forward. Our job is not to be quiet.
SPEAKER_03So, uh Nate is you can appreciate that this conversation looks differently depending on what part of the state that you may be in. And we talked before we turned on the cameras today about where I'm from. I grew up in Delta County. Um, I like to tell people that my high school was so small that I played football, so that will I will tell you the small town that I done floody type that I grew up in. But you know, I I think you uh the challenge in politics is to reach voters where they are. And Delta County was conservative politically, probably more Republican, but I think good, decent people who wanted to be able to uh raise their kids without being uh harassed by the government um and and be able to to to to sort of have the kind of community where we look out for each other. And uh so I guess uh you know my thought about you know this set of issues that we've been talking about today is to meet voters where they are. Because I think there are there are a lot of gettable Republicans, there are a lot of gettable uh center-right folks who may be unaffiliated, the vote more Republican, and that is to stress that everyone deserves a chance. Uh people deserve to live their lives without being uh discriminated against, and that everyone deserves some privacy, and particularly where you're talking about kids, um I think for for that community, they would really be responsive to that message. So so much in politics relates to the framing of issues, and we've talked a little bit about I how I think the Republicans have probably done a better job in terms of framing just from a pure electoral strategy. But um what what's your sp response to that? And does does your strategy look differently depending on the conversations you're having with folks around our state?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think the you the meet meeting people where they are is exactly right. Um, you know, Heidi Hass, who has been our longtime organizer in Grand Junction, right there. Um, you know, she's been there for 16 years, and I was have been lucky to go to Grand Junction a few times now. And you know, when I'm having conversations, I don't want to know about anybody's ill-house. I want to know what's important to you. Like you said, I want to I I want to understand like what makes you tick or why why is your family important? And when we have those conversations, kind of like what I said a little bit earlier, then people seem to really understand, like, I see you, you see me. And no one wants a whole government making decisions, medical decisions about their families. Um, as far as I have noticed, um, no one wants random people making decisions about their little girls. And I think as long as we continue to have those conversations, um, we're moving in the right direction.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's interesting. So um Denver is a place where uh LGBTQ issues are strong and rights and support. And when I started in politics, I uh was on the referendum I campaign, which was our domestic partnership campaign years and years and years ago. And I was asked to uh galvanize the black community around what we now call marriage equality. And I think there was an assumption that the black folks were not going to be supportive. But we have folks like Wellington Webb, who actually was one of the first in the nation to lead on um non-discrimination for LGBTQ people. But it's really interesting because I was talking to someone who I will say is in the web sphere, a black older man, who said he was getting calls from people because he was uh supportive of me, my campaigns, things I was working on. And he said, um, there was an article that said Leslie speaks on trans something. And I think it got cut off, and it said basically Leslie is trans, is how people were interpreting it. And so he's like, Why do you care so much about these issues? Are you one? You know? And I said, What do you mean one what? Like, what do you mean? I had never been, no one's ever told me my face that they thought I might be trans. But this I'm saying this for a reason because it can start a rumor, and then some kid can be targeted who never who is just living their lives as themselves. Right. And I said, it's my my friend Alvarez, and I I could say this, and I said, Alvarez, what do you mean? Like he's like, I don't understand these issues. I don't get it. I'm I I'm I I don't I don't get it, and but I guess I should ask, are you? And I was like, and I was like, I'm a born woman, right? But I do care about trans issues and I will continue to fight for them, and here's why. And he he asked me, so well what is it, what does that mean? Like, what are equalities? Like, it means you think that everyone should be able to live their lives the way that they live them, and that there shouldn't be discrimination, and that, and that people should be able to be who they are. And he's like, Well, I agree with that. Do you know I fought for this back in the day alongside a web, you know, and I believe that if we discriminate against one person, we're gonna discriminate against all of us, and we know as black people what that feels like. And so I support that. And I'm gonna tell people that while you're not trans, I'm gonna fight with you for trans people, and that's how the conversation ended. And that was pretty amazing to see. And so I think not going in with any assumptions about where people are is important, but also not making people feel dumb if they don't understand what the TQ plus is, right? Or why you're using they them. It doesn't, it's like we can't shame people either, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I think we need to bring people along. Um that we I you know, I always say that if you're looking to slam dunk somebody um rather than listening to what somebody's actually saying, um then you're you're not in the right movement, right? Movement work is about movement, it's about moving people folks in a in a direction and for and and not just moving, uh not just m forcing someone to move. Like I I always I always find it fascinating when somebody says to me, I had a conversation with my so and so, and um they're just a bunch of idiots. And I was like, Well, wh wh why were you having the conversation? We were having a conversation to change them, because you can't change them. You can only change how you react to them, right? What I'm learning from you both, like. And Cole, right? Is that like you it seemed to be that you weren't trying to change each other, right? You were trying to understand each other and figure out how you can move together. And we have to be able to figure that out. It doesn't mean that you don't hold people accountable for whatever, whether it's being transphobic or homophobic or racist. Sure. Hold them accountable. But also, how do we have collective conversations where people feel like they can be able to grow? That you can say, hey, I made this decision around conversion therapy in 1901, Cole, is that what you said? And now in 2026, it's a different thing, right? Like, and and and I should be able to say, I could either just be like, I don't trust you. That's it, you made this decision, or I could say, tell me more about that. What did you learn in the process? And what can I learn so I can have a better conversation with somebody else who has the question? Yeah. When I'm, you know, when I before the first time I went out to the Western Slope out to Montrose, folks were like, oh, good luck. You know, I'm like, good luck and go with God, pretty much. And I didn't find any of that when I was out there. I found I had conversations about grandkids. I had chickens growing up. I had conversations around chickens, um, you know, all the different things, right? People were more interested in the fact that I'm from Rhode Island and Massachusetts, um, you know, and the Celtics versus the Nuggets. But it's really just creating a space for conversation. This creates for the space to build a foundation for the next steps for Colorado. Again, creating a space where for everybody can thrive. Um, it does not mean that I want to minimize, like, you know, Liza, I just want to say to you, like, the reality is no one should be asking you the question of whether you're trans or not, it's nobody's business. And that's the right to privacy. Whatever that whether you're a sister and a woman at all, it doesn't matter. Like, no one should ever have to ask you that question because who you are, how you see yourself, is how we should all see you. And that's what it's really all about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know. But if I started by shaming him, we wouldn't be friends. Of course, and we would he wouldn't have moved on the issue or understood it. And I think that that's important because I think people don't understand trans issues because while they might understand gay marriage because they might have a marriage or have been in a marriage, and they just think people should be able to love who they love, they just don't get this issue. And I think proximity to the issue does breed conversation and and support, and that's why we've moved so much on LGBTQ equality, and now we're backsliding a bit because people have, I think, separated the conversation and each other. But trans is such a small population, coming back to what you said about that, that folks have maybe never met a transgender person or folks don't know what gender non-binary is. And I think if I started by saying, go F yourself, like you know, and which she you know, he felt safe enough to have that conversation with me. But no, no, and I I just was the first time I've ever been questioned about my femininity. Sure. And like that must feel horrific for a child. Yeah you know, exactly. And and why would we be doing like why would we be um putting that out there as something that is okay to do ever and then put it on a ballot? Yeah. Um is is is way too much, in my opinion. Um and and and you know, thinking about getting access to the right kind of uh of medical care, that's a decision between me, my mother, and my doctor, you know, and um and that should be it. Um and so I think we could talk about these issues forever. I mean, there's so much to talk about, but I want folks to know that they can have the conversation. Absolutely that there are safe spaces for it, and maybe ask permission to have that conversation, like my friend did. Can I ask you a question that I don't know how to ask you?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Um, and then invite that space in, but then have the conversation. Um you could actually really affect and change someone's heart and their boat, which will impact people's lives, like Cole has moved on these issues with just having the conversation. And so it is Pride Month.
SPEAKER_02Yes, it is Pride month.
SPEAKER_01And I thought it would be good if we ended on a note about pride.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, all the glitter right now. Well, um, I know that last weekend, uh, so Colorado will hit over one Colorado will hit over 20 prides across the state of Colorado. We hit 12 last weekend alone. Um, there are prides all across the state. Again, um Celaida, Durango, Grand Junction, Uray, Lamar is having their third pride, I believe, this year. Oh. Or fiscal sponsors, um, Forseco Pride. Um, I'm just deeply proud of Coloradans in general, even in the smallest places who feel like I want to be seen and heard. I want to know I want folks to understand that no matter what negativities out there, I am still loud and proud. Um, it's been absolutely wonderful to connect across the state and to really see what people see in themselves. And it's not just LGBTQ plus folks, it's uh allies as well. There's grandmas out there who are just like, I don't understand what this is all about, but my neighbor is wonderful, and I just wanted him to know that I'm here and I'm standing up, and that's what it's all about. I love it. So, Nadine, how are you gonna celebrate pride this year? Well, I work for pride, but I work every pride, but my um year anniver wedding anniversary is on the 29th, so I will be celebrating them with my wife. So congratulations. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Well, how are you celebrating pride this year?
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm gonna be with you. That's right. And we're gonna be we're gonna be out of pride. I um I'm glad you just m mentioned your your marriage because I I I did want to share a personal memory with you, and and that is we were in Washington, D.C. We were visiting some college campuses uh with one of my daughters, and we were in DC the day the Supreme Court decision came down on gay marriage. So we went to uh because you know, we heard about the news, and I'm like, let's go to the Supreme Court. And I well, I went to Georgetown Law School, so I lived about four or five blocks from the Supreme Court building, and I remember how inspiring it was to walk walk past it. So we walked over to the court. Uh of course there were a lot of people celebrating, there were some protesters, you know, and and I it was so impactful on my on my kids to see the the Constitution protecting people's rights.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, and I have we've we've backslid uh in certain ways. I and I have personal views that that Donald Trump hasn't has cast a very long shadow on some of these issues. I think it'll be very interesting to see when Donald Trump uh is off the stage where we are as a country, um, because I think we have made a lot of progress. We have opened a lot of doors, we've opened dialogue um in our communities. And I hope, you know, once we get sort of past the very divisive politics that we seem to have now, we can get back to that. And I think uh getting back to the to to pride, I think that's an important event. It's not it it's for the entire community, it's there for us to come together, share community, share things in common, and to celebrate diversity, which uh my personal view is diversity makes us stronger.
SPEAKER_02We all have a part of the puzzle. I say each one of us, you can't just take a puzzle piece and cut it in half and fit it in. Each one of us has a unique part of the puzzle that creates a beautiful picture of sustainability, joy, and you see that in pride's.
SPEAKER_01It's really appreciated. And um, pride is for everybody, pride is for everybody. Uh so hopefully y'all will join us out at Denver Pride. Um, and we'll Cole and I will be out there with the glitter. Uh and Nadine, we hope to run into you and your amazing family, your amazing wife, and all of your friends having a good time, and just all come celebrate with us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we will be um on we're grandma show this year at Denver Pride. Congratulations. So please come watch us and come hang out with us at the pink party, and I'm sure that it's gonna be a wonderful, wonderful time.
SPEAKER_01All right, well, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03Uh stay with us. We'll be talking next about what's bugging us this week. Welcome back. And in this week's What's Bugging You segment, we have my good friends Tim and Berta Nicknish from Centennial.
SPEAKER_01All right, let's see what they got to say. Hi, Colin, Leslie. We're Tim and Berta.
SPEAKER_00We're from Centennial, Colorado. So, what's bugging us is our attempt to conserve water here in the state of Colorado. And obviously, we have a lot of people cheating on their watering, and we're just curious how people are being monitored and controlled to avoid uh overwatering.
SPEAKER_01Dang, with that green lawn in the back, too.
SPEAKER_03I don't know if that's Tim and Berta's lawn. Uh could be an open space.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, it looks like it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, it's like we uh um Colorado clearly has some water issues that it's dealing with. We've talked a little bit about water policy, but for the longest time, I think we've thought that it's normal for us to have all these Kentucky bluegrass lawns, which are water water intensive. Um, is that realistic? And do we need to be looking carefully at what kind of landscaping makes sense for our state and for our city?
SPEAKER_01You know, I mean, I completely agree, you know, and uh it's the enforcement is so interesting to me because you know, uh, when I got the water and water restrictions, and my lot's much smaller, Denver lot, you know, than the maybe your friends in the burbs. Um, but it's twice a week we can water. Um mine is Thursday and Sunday, uh, and that does not make for a green lawn. And so I do drive through some of these neighborhoods and I'm like, how is their lawn that green? And it's because they are not abiding by the water restrictions. We have the water restrictions in place because Colorado is a mountain desert, you know. We are where we are in the high country, higher country, I guess I would say, um, is dry um in nature. And so we need that water. But right now it feels to me like the only uh enforcement mechanism is the fines, right? And that is also problematic because in neighborhoods like mine, where you might have lower income areas um or folks that, you know, neighborhoods that might seem a little bit more blighted, if you will, if then you tell someone they can't water their lawn or they're gonna get they're gonna get fined, and the water is also more expensive the more that you use. So say you have a family of five and you're living in in North Park Hill, um, and then they tell you you can't water your lawn, and then someone says you're that you're not upkeeping your home, and then you get a fine for that, that just seems absurd to me. Um, yes, we need to think more about zeroscaping, but who can afford to rip out the lawn that's been there for literally a hundred years, mouse that's a hundred years old, and then put in the zeroscaping. And so, unless we start to put in place programs that incentivize taking out the lawn, and we haven't in the past for a little while, um, and zeroscaping and making sure that these families can afford to do so, I think we'll continue to see people overutilizing water in a place where we need the resources desperately.
SPEAKER_03Now, I I I think it's a it's a tough issue because I think that the structure is the more water you use, the more expensive it's gonna get. Uh, but to your point, there's a socioeconomic tilt to that kind of policy that some people will just say, okay, fine, I'll just pay more and water my lawn.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because they can afford it.
SPEAKER_03So, you know, how do we get people to understand that collectively we have a responsibility to conserve water, to do better? Um, and I think this also leads with our governments in terms of uh watering areas that are green spaces, parks.
SPEAKER_01City Park Golf Club looks great. It's very green. I wonder how often they're watering the lawn there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and how much of that comes from municipal water, how much of it comes from wells or other irrigation sources. Uh my golf club looks pretty darn good, but I do know that they have a large lake that they draw from for irrigation. So I think at some point I think we should have a guest on our show to talk about water policy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so.
SPEAKER_03Because we we've got a plan better, and just every year we're holding our breath hoping that it that it snows enough and that we're gonna have all the water that we need. Um but as bad as it is in Denver, uh I can tell you I was in Arizona last week, and uh I think Arizona's in deep, deep trouble when it when it comes to water. They don't have it, they rely on us. Uh but it's a it's an important resource, and I think we just don't spend enough time talking about it.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I would like to talk about that because I have heard um recently that the federal government might be intervening in uh Colorado's water fight with our neighboring states, and I worry that Colorado will not lead in that conversation because the administration does not like the blue tilt uh of our state. And uh I think that's gonna be hugely problematic for us. I know we have amazing water lawyers that have um have been fighting this battle for quite some time, but the policy is sticky, and so let's get into it. Let's definitely get someone on to talk about it. So thank you to your friends for sending that in. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's all the time we have for today, Leslie. Always great to be with you.
SPEAKER_01It's good to be with you.
SPEAKER_03And uh remember, friends, politics is personal, so keep talking.
SPEAKER_01Thanks everyone. Thank you so much for listening. Politics is Personal is hosted by Leslie Harrod and Cole West. This episode featured Nadine Bridges and was directed by Julie Jackson and edited by Jameson Johnson, produced by Leslie Harrod, Cole West, Ian Silari, and Julie Jackson. Special thanks to Hallie Wist and Tim and Berta, Nicknich, and Centennial. Music by JKK. And follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, and any site you get your podcast at Politics is Personal with Leslie and Cole. Recorded in Denver with Truth Media Collective at the Denver Symphony Studios. All rights reserved.