EP 8: Primary Predictions, Bow Mar Gates, Community Wealth | Politics is Personal with Leslie + Cole

This week on Politics is Personal, Leslie Herod and Cole Wist make their final predictions around the Colorado primaries, including what they think is going to happen with Diana DeGette and CD1. They commiserate the Bow Mar community where gates may be going on public streets, and welcome Yessica Holguin, the Executive Director of the Center for Community Wealth. Yessica, Leslie and Cole discuss socialism and capitalism, with Yessica pointing out that corporate socialism is a thing! Learn about community wealth and Yessica's stint in the Peace Corps in Nicaragua. 

The show wraps up with an insider "what's bugging me" section, with both hosts lamenting the craziness of the Reflecting Pool in D.C.

As always, Politics is Personal isn't about winning arguments. It's about having the conversations many people are having around their own dinner tables—with curiosity, respect, and a willingness to listen. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome back to Politics is Personal with Leslie and Cole. I'm Leslie Harris.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

I'm Cole West. It's the week before the primary in Colorado. We're gonna offer our predictions as to what's gonna happen next week.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

What a race we're gonna have.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Some crazy stuff going on out in Beaumar.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Yes, yes. We're gonna be talking about why we should restrict drivers in certain areas. And then also, I gotta talk about what's going on in soccer and all these foreigners coming to our lovely country and eating all of our food.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

And finally, Trump's holding housing legislation hostage for his crazy safe America. What's the name of the building The Safe Act? Safe.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Well, what's what's safe for saving? Then what is it?

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Not people's voting rights. That's what Mats said.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

That's really true. All right. And we have a special guest, Jessica Olgeen, and we'll get into the economy. So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Hey Leslie, what's in your feed this week?

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Hey, Cole. Well, um, I guess we should start by talking about this election that's coming up, huh? We've got some predictions out there. We're going head to head. I don't know if we have any wagers uh out there, but uh, you know what? Let's talk about first the governor's race. We know on the Democratic side.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

I'm gonna get my uh little my little sheet here. You got your cheat sheet out?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Okay, okay. Well, this one's interesting because just today I heard that your guy, Phil Weiser, is pulling up. And just so you guys remember, um, I had my bet on Michael Bennett, and your bet is on Phil Weiser. So Weiser is up, I think I saw nine points today. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 1:28

I hadn't seen that poll. I'm not surprised by it. He's had the momentum for weeks. People are really souring on Michael Bennett, and his negative campaign ads, I think, have come back to haunt him.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah. I was actually at a lunch earlier today, and it was very interesting because the one thing that someone non, you know, non-political said to me was, I'm just so sick of all these ads. Yeah. And we are at the point of an election where people say that, but particularly about the negative ads. And that's not really the Colorado way. I would argue though that the negative ads are coming from both sides. But we're we've talked enough about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Do I stick with my prediction? I'm gonna stick with Michael Bennett now, but I will not be surprised if this momentum carries Phil across the finish line and we see him winning. But it will be a tight race, and I think it it'll be interesting if it's called on Tuesday night.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Yeah, I um I think Phil Weiser will win, and I think it will be called Tuesday night. I think it'll be a comfortable victory, at least five points.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Five points? Okay, all right, you heard it here. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

All right. Governor, uh, on the Republican side, um, this is a fascinating primary. Um, we've talked a lot about um why I think Barb Kirkmeyer would be the best candidate for the Republican Party. Given the way that the Colorado Republican Party screws everything up, yeah. I think they're gonna pick Victor Marx.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

Who's just a complete train wreck as a general election candidate.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Oh, he's awful. I mean, the lies and the tales, tall tales that come from Victor Marx. But I said this before, I think he's gonna ride this straight to victory uh in the Republican Party uh primary and he will win as well. So we're we're on the same boat on that one.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Do you think his dog will be the lieutenant governor candidate? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

I don't know who would choose to be it and except for maybe his dog.

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Okay, so A. G's race on the Democratic side.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

I'm still I'm still strong for Jenna, you know, and I and I quite frankly I I resent the fact that the number one argument against her, not from you, but in general, is that she's too ambitious of a woman or she's not qualified uh to take the seat. And quite frankly, if you look through back through uh Democratic and Republican attorney general, she's just as qualified uh as them, and and quite frankly, I think will lead the state well. Um she's also one of the, I think the only Democrat to win statewide twice. Okay. Um, and is running a campaign that shows she knows how to win.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

I think Michael Doherty is the best candidate in the field. I think Heddel is is is probably uh a close second in in my view. Um but you know, I I don't think that you have to have broad prosecutorial experience to be uh attorney general, but I think you should have had experience being in a courtroom, trying cases, civil litigation, having some broad base of knowledge on the law. And I think Michael Doherty is is well prepared, and I think he'll win this race.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Headled to the medal, that's my honorable mention. I really do like her race, and I think that uh she's great for Colorado politics.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Okay. Um Secretary of State on the Democratic side. Who you got there?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

I got Jesse Danielson. Why? You know, we served together, we ran a lot of bills, particularly And I serve with Jesse as well. Yeah, yeah, particularly around um missing and murdered indigenous women. Um she's really been strong on union issues. Uh she's always been uh a supporter of bills from the led by the black caucus. Um and so for me, I like her character, I like how she serves. Um, and I think she will be a good Secretary of State because she believes in all the values that we do, which is fair and open elections, you know, ensuring that those uh people have access to the ballot, that it's easy to register to vote, um that our elections are verifiable. Um, and so I think she understands, knows, uh, and supports those values. She's ran bills around election protection uh and passed them, and so I think she's a great candidate.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

So there seems to be this perception that the and and I thought Jesse Danielson was very progressive when I served with her.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Isn't that so interesting?

SPEAKER_03 5:10

How now she's not she's not perceived as being progressive, and and Amanda Gonzalez, I think, is is perceived to be the progressive candidate. Yeah. Which I just I found it find to be fascinating. What did Jesse Danielson do to piss off the progressives?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

I don't think she did anything, but I do think it's so interesting that being someone who has a career and a tested record in politics makes you not left. It makes you establishment, even if you ran far to the left and served far to the left, like Jesse did. Quite frankly, I don't can't think of a time she crossed the aisle um in a way that was, you know, surprising to Democrats or was against progressive values. If anything, she pushed the legislature to be more progressive on issues and brought progressive amendments. I would say the same thing for Michael Bennett and why he's considered the um, you know, the establishment candidate versus Phil Weiser, who's also served and is maybe not further to the left than Phil, but or than than Michael. So I think that's really interesting. So the way that these races are shaking out, even on the Republican side, is establishment bad, you know. Right, right. Um people who have a record of serving, bad. Um people who are coming out of nowhere, great. Like, let's go for it, you know? They must be better. Didn't work with Trump. I have no idea why folks think it's gonna work now.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Yeah, I you know, I think Amanda Gonzalez is gonna win the Secretary of State's race because it seems to me uh like she's got the the the mojo from the from the the progressive wing of the party, and those seem to be the most motivated folks. So I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be Amanda. So CD won. This is a really big race. All right. Um I'm picking an upset on election night. I think I think Diana De Guette is uh going to lose her seat. I watched what happened this week in New York, um, and three, I think three Democratic Socialist candidates in New York City uh won in primaries, two incumbents were tossed out. And boy, I I tell you, if if that wasn't a harbinger harbinger for what's gonna happen next Tuesday, I don't know what is, but yeah, I'm picking it upset in CD1.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

You know what? I don't disagree with anything you said. My money is still on Diana. Um but after seeing what happened in New York and after seeing the way that MLOT is trending up, looking at my social media feed, I will tell you what's in my feed is Diana is done, and MLOT is the newest, hottest thing to serve Denver. Um so while I'm gonna keep my prediction where it's at, I will not be surprised again if you are right, and I think that if anything, it will show that there is a huge progressive swing in Denver and that no one should hold their seat for a generation.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

And I think it's a good reminder for incumbents. I I think at some point it's time for you to step aside and let the next generation step up, and I think you've made that point. Um CD three, I think we're probably uh gonna be identical on this one. I'm picking Jeff Hurd. He's got some some some some challenges on on the right, but I I don't think that's gonna happen. CD eight. Um I I've evolved my thinking on this. I I if you had asked me two weeks ago, I probably would have said Shannon Byrd. Um I I do think the the one campaign ad that that Manny Rutinella's run that I think's been effective is the one on ICE and how Shannon was the only one that voted against the Democratic caucus's position. Um I think Manny's gonna win. I think it's gonna be a squeaker though.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

I think Manny's gonna win, and I think it he will just sweep it. I think it will be a large margin of victory, but I do think that if it is tight, it will show that the independents are swinging more moderate Democrat than they are far left, and that is a conversation that I think we'll have once the once we see where the numbers stand. Uh a few more issues that we want to get into though before we wrap up this segment. Uh let's talk about driving through Bomar.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Well, you know, Bomar, hey, hey, hey, Bomar, newsflash. You guys are a municipality. Yeah. Okay? You're not a gated community. Yeah. I've never seen something so audacious as a municipality thinking, well, we don't like certain people driving through our town, so we're just gonna put up gates.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

They're putting up gates around their entire town and saying if you don't live here, you can't drive through here. Even though they're getting state dollars, right? Um, there there's regional um uh funding that happens in that area as well, and they're saying we don't care, we're gonna put gates through. It's not necessarily for safety, it's not about enforcement. They just don't want certain people in their neighborhoods. And for some reason, despite all the backlash they're getting, they are moving forward.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

I think it's crazy. And the the one thing that I thought was amusing um was when uh I think it was a nine news reporter showed up at their city council meeting, and of course the the residents of Beaumoral, rah-rah, rah, let's put up the gates, and then yelled at the nine news reporters saying, This is your fault. Yeah. Because frankly, they got caught. They're trying to do something that I think is outrageous, something that is against public safety. And if you're gonna be a municipality, if you're gonna be a city government, um, act like one.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you on that issue. Uh, what about what's happening in Washington right now with Trump holding up not only it's not a Democratic bill, it's a Democratic and a Republican bill that talks about affordability and looks at afford housing affordability for Americans. Not one of the number one issues on Americans' minds today. And he's holding it up because he says it's not important enough.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

I think it's the number one issue. Uh, last night I had an opportunity to to speak to a group of chamber leaders from the San Diego area. And so I at dinner asked them what their you know concerns are and what they saw as major impediments to economic development. The number one issue that every single one of them raised was housing. And the cost of housing and the inability of people to live in the communities where they work. It's a problem in Colorado, it's a problem across the country, and we had a broad bipartisan coalition that uh, and you can't get bipartisan support for anything in Washington. Right, right. It did come together on this one, and I because I think they're hearing it from their constituents that we want you to work on housing. And Donald Trump is holding this bill hostage because he's trying to advance his what I call the election meddling law that he's trying to pass.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Which basically would far I mean, we've talked a lot about this issue, uh, or people have seen it and heard about it a lot, but basically, this is a law that would restrict access to voting, and he's doing it and trying to do it right before our general election in November. But particularly, it's around these these name change issues. And I think what I've seen, you know, Trump uh couch this as is it's like basically you can't be, it's anti-transgender, right? You can't just change your name and then vote. But what's the number one group that changes their name right now in America?

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Married women. Married women. That's right. Uh I mean I've seen um a hearing in which they s uh the witness was asked under this law or this proposed law, if you had a birth if you had a driver's license, could you register to vote? The answer is no. Okay. If you have a passport, could you register to vote? The answer is no. You have to provide an original birth certificate to prove your citizenship to vote.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Okay? Do you know where your birth certificate is? I have no idea. I I I I hope my wife has it filed away somewhere, like all of our important.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

She can't vote, you can't vote, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:17

But it's like, but you know, my wife's birth certificate has her maiden name. She never got a an amended birth certificate to have her. I mean, how many married women who have taken their husband's last name are gonna have that kind of document? So we the last thing we should be doing is passing laws to make it more difficult for people to vote, you know? And if you are afraid of people voting, you're in the wrong business.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Okay?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah, and it's called the Safe Act.

SPEAKER_03 12:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

I I don't know, safe from what? Like I it's the someone coming in and just stealing our election. I think the biggest threats to our election, and uh, and I know this for a fact, and that you know, you anyone who actually studies national security is cyber threats, right? We know that that's the biggest issue, which is why Colorado has a very protected election system where every vote is counted by hand. And I think that's important.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

You know, I mean we all know Trump hates mail-in voting. Yeah. But he votes by mail, okay? Um the other thing is, you know, and I I had a conversation with a friend yesterday who who's very concerned about about mail-in voting, and and my response is you you need look no further than two Republicans that I have enormous respect for, Wayne Williams and Matt Crane.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Uh Wayne Williams was our Secretary of State in Colorado, Republican. Yeah. Matt Crane was our county clerk and recorder in Arapaho County, Republican. Matt now heads the County Clerks Association, both strong advocates for the way that we do voting in Colorado. Um, it's very popular. Yeah. I don't know about you, but I don't really want to go stand in line at a polling place. I want to vote in at my kitchen table where I can get my blue book out and study the issues and then drop it off at a at a at a box. We should be making it easier for people to vote, not harder.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

I completely agree with you. Um, all right. The final issue that's in my feed, and it's gotta be in yours too. Are you watching these videos where uh folks are coming from especially from overseas, especially the Europeans who I swear the UK never had a seasoning in their life, and I don't understand when they come to America and they try things like Buckeys or uh a biscuit or Texas barbecue for the first time, macaroni, or not a macaroni grill, Cheesecake Factory, their mind is blown by free refills and all of this, and it is just it's probably one of the funnest things I look at on my feed before I go to bed.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Um you know, and I've said that that that what we're seeing in terms of multiculturalism is is exactly what our country needed, a reminder that diversity is a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Um, and people are bringing, you know, their cultures, they're learning about our culture, um, and Americans are rubbing rubbing shoulders with these folks, and I think it's a great thing for our country.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

It's so good, it's so positive, it's so wholesome. It's not at all what I was worried would happen when we had the World Cup here. It is going so well. Um, and I'm so proud of everyone from you know, Texans to Kansas folks to folks in Colorado just embracing people coming into town and learning about our country and our customs and our ways. It just really does make me proud to be here. Um, and the one thing I have to give can I do a shameless plug real quick? Yeah, go ahead. So one of the funny ones I saw in my feed was Europeans marveling at the yellow school buses. Oh, I saw that. Oh my god, I saw a yellow school bus.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

So what why is that a thing? I was completely blind. I was like, are we the only country in the world that has the yellow school bus?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

I don't know about the only, but we started it. And do you know it's a Colorado story? School buses are yellow because of an incident that happened on the Eastern Plains in Colorado in the 1930s.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

The film that you're working on.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

I am working on a movie that tells that exact story. Uh, and so I gotta give a shout out to Julie Jackson Speer, who is our writer and director. Um, this is her family story from uh Holly, Colorado, from the Eastern Plains, Holly and Towner. Uh, if you want to know more, check us out. But we are telling these amazing Colorado stories so people know that school buses, yes, are in fact yellow because of Colorado.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Yeah, I I loved seeing people. They were like chasing down the buses, like, oh my god, they really exist. Like, we got to get a picture with the bus.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

It was amazing. It was amazing. So, well, thanks everyone for listening. We've got a guest coming on.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

And I look forward to that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

So stay with us. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Politics is Personal with Leslie and Cole. We are here today with our guest, Jessica O'Peen from the Center for Community Wealth. You are a daughter of Denver from the Swansea neighborhood, uh, and also just a leader in our community. Welcome. Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Tell us a little bit about yourself. Sure. So, yeah, as stated, I was born in Mexico. I grew up in the Swansea neighborhood and first generation college student, first generation everything. I um as a young professional, I wanted to be in education because that's where I saw the opportunity. And then quickly realized that it really is about our economic systems. So ended up quitting my job and joining the Peace Corps. Absolutely amazing experience. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

So I want to hear all about your your time in the Peace Corps. Um what how was that experience and how long were you there? And what are your biggest memories from being in the Peace Corps?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

It was an incredible experience. All of my, even though my master's is in business, my professional education had been, my professional experience had been in education. And um the Peace Corps at that time was very military-like. They were like, here's your experience, here's just where you're needed, and you're going here. Um it was a little bit wild, I'll admit, as a as an older adult at that time, most people go right out of college. I was definitely not in that category. So packing my house and quitting my job and having three weeks to get on a plane and leave for what I thought would be two years was uh really tested my commitment to the Peace Corps. But I knew that I wanted to do it. Um I was placed in the economic development sector, and I learned so much about what it truly means to have an economic system that works for all. And it was an amazing experience because to be able to work with the high schools, uh, and my job was basically to train teachers on how to teach entrepreneurship. The other part of my job was working with local businesses to help them grow from micro entrepreneurs to small or medium-sized businesses as defined by the government of Nicaragua. And so to be able to see how a system can actually work to support the true entrepreneurial spirit in a community was really powerful. And for once I was proud of the my business education because I could use what I had learned here in a different context and be able to bring it back to the US.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

So, what was happening politically in Nicaragua at the time you were in the Peace Corps?

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, so much. It was a it was a time when um the the the government was focusing on how do we actually support economic development in this place. Um at that time, uh Nicaragua was the second poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, and so just to give you context, our monthly stipend was uh similar to what a teacher would make full-time, and it was $180 a month for the first few months. Wow. And then we got an increase to almost $200. And wow, but out of that came the experience that the culture itself is so community-centered that there was a moment where I worked my budget, I made a commitment. Um, I served with my partner and we made a commitment to not use any US savings, and so we were gonna figure it out with that. And so to go back and try to figure out do we go for a coffee once a month or do we prioritize um uh whatever it was. I mean, at that time it was internet because we had to figure out how to talk to a family. Um, but it was fascinating because even though it was such a poor country when you look at statistics, the richness of the community was incredible. And some of it was uh because of the support from the you from the government, from the Nicaraguan government. And so um they had created the uh they call it the MIPIME law, which was created to support micro entrepreneurs, or what we think about self-employed employees. Um, a lot of people that were starting businesses just out of their garage without registering anything, without doing anything, the government recognized that that was a significant opportunity for growth and uh created programs specifically to help support that. They also reached out to the U.S. government for additional support, and that's how we SB Scorp volunteers came into the country to be able to provide that support and work alongside uh our Nicaraguan counterparts to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Wow, I I see a clear through line from your work in the Peace Corps, which maybe was unintended to what you're doing now. I mean, the Center for Community Wealth, you know, right in the heart of Five Points, which is an area that had traditionally and historically been uh quote unquote disadvantaged, if you will, or under-resourced for sure. A black community, also brown, an Asian immigrant community. Uh, and now you're there, the center of you, your where you're physically, where you physically stand is in the center of that neighborhood, and you're talking about community wealth. What is it?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yeah, so we think about community wealth as the not only an economic system, but it does include economics. And I want to be very clear that we need to make sure that people can pay their bills at the end of the month. But it's also everything else that surrounds well being. And so it includes relationships, it includes uh people's well being, it includes the It includes health. And so it is a holistic way to look at how our communities can actually thrive. So we think about community wealth as the economic system, but beyond that, we think about all of the systems that create a healthy, thriving community. And so it includes the arts, it includes health, and it includes everything that we don't think about when we think about the traditional wealth. And we think that when we people can pay their bills at the end of the month, they should be able to not only pay their bills, but also have to be able to contribute to the well-being of others. And this is important because the ripple effects of healthy communities is significant. What we've seen with our our worker, and we haven't talked about worker cooperatives yet, but one of the things that we've seen is that when people have economic stability, they're civically engaged in ways that they couldn't be before. And so when you think about politics and day-to-day life, economic opportunity is at the core of it and how we can actually ensure that people can be more engaged in their own communities.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yeah, so I mean to me, community wealth, it it really does say not only do you take care of your own family or your own household, but you're taking care of the entire community. I did think about it as financially, but really when we think about community wealth, money didn't always come into play at all, right? It's really about making sure that if someone needs childcare, the village is taking care of them, or if someone has extra tomatoes, they're sharing that with, you know, with their neighbors. And so I guess expanding the way that we think about community wealth is really what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

It is because I I want to share just a really quick story. When I was in the Peace Corps, I went through all of the tropical diseases, and one of those was chicken gunya.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Okay, which is a chicken gunya?

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

I'll learn something about it.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Mosquito-borne disease that it's called the breakbone disease. And so you feel like you just want to die. That is the best way. And so I'm sitting on a couch and I am dying. I can't even get up. This knee is about this big, and so I physically can't walk. My at that time, 80-year-old neighbor comes to the door, she knocks, and she's like, Are you okay? And I was like, No, I'm dying. And she's like, Don't worry. She's like, I'm gonna run to the store, I'm gonna get you. I was like, my headache is awful. She's like, I'm gonna go get you some Tylenol, I'm gonna, or the equivalent of it, and I'm gonna bring some soup, and it's gonna be awful for three days, and you're gonna be fine, but just know that I'm just right across the street. And you think about in that moment, there's no amount of money I could have that feel that make that would make me feel as connected and healthy, even though I was miserable. That that that to me showed the power of community and truly community wealth.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

And that really is wealth, that's abundance, right? Like again, it kind of goes beyond money. But I think Colin and I were chatting about this before, but I think when I think of community wealth, you know, it sounds a little socialist to me. And this is politics is personal. So, you know, we could talk about politics on this show. Uh, are you guys a socialist entity? Do you believe in socialism? I mean, there's a lot of talk in this in this country right now, especially in these primaries, about socialism and how we should be leaning towards that and how really we should all be helping one another when it and people should be able to afford to, you know, go to work, take care of their families, drive a car, have a house, whatnot. Um, kind of socialist in in in principle and values would some of those things I completely agree with. But are you guys like a so is it are those values aligned? Are you a socialist entity?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

The organization is apolitical. Okay. Having said that, we truly believe that we have the responsibility to take care of each other. And we live in a country that has a lot of resources, and with the resources aligned, we can actually provide the support that our communities need to thrive. So if you all want to call it socialism, call it that. For me, it's about mothers having access to childcare so that they can go to the workplace without having to worry about who's gonna take care of the children. If you think that's socialism, that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

So let me let me throw out a proposition to you. I I grew up in a very small town on the western slope, Payonia, um about 1,500 people. It was the kind of town where if you got in trouble, chances are your parents would know about it before you got home. Um but because it was that kind of a community, uh, people really did look out for each other. And if a family was had fallen on hard times, maybe someone had lost a job. The community did really rally around that that person, you know, that family. Um, and you know, and and I also we we've seen religion, religion sort of play this role in terms of providing a support structure. So I guess my question for you is um communities that are functioning well do these kinds of things naturally. Um so is it a matter of mandating this as a as a as a matter of public policy, or is it instilling the types of values in our communities where these things happen organically?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah, I think there's public policy that can either help support or actually hurt it in some ways. Um a lot of the un what we see, a lot of unpaid work and paid uh work that is supporting communities in other places has become commercialized. And so it and it depends on the industry, right? We would want stay-at-home mothers who are actually providing a very valuable service to be compensated. Now that's another conversation for another day. But um when we think about, you know, when you asked about is uh socialism what we're what we're working towards, that already exists in our country. When we look at the tax subsidies that our corporations receive, that is significant. When we think about the number of people who have to rely on our safety net system, SNAP benefits, um, housing benefits, because corporations are not paying a living wage, that to me is socialism. It's just not invested in the right place or in the places where it's having the most impact. Um and so I think about ways in which we can actually create better community outcomes, and it's unfortunately not in the current uh investments that we're making.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

So you're saying we have sh socialism for the corporations, but not for the people. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

I call it corporate welfare, but you know, I think you're exactly right that that we are doing a lot to um help certain folks and not others. We're picking winners and losers in our economy. Um and you're right, that's not that's not equitable. Um, but it's also not true, it's not true capitalism. Um I'm interested in your thoughts on capitalism as a system. And so for those out there who say, you know, I'm for capitalism, we don't have a pure capitalistic system the way it is because of, you know, for the reasons you've talked about, we're we're uh we're helping some corporations uh at the expense of others, and certainly at the expense of at the expense of individuals. So what is your view of capitalism?

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Yeah, I uh I had to answer that when I was in Nicaragua, um because it Nicaragua is a socialist country. And and it was fascinating to see how some of their desired infrastructure was like, we already have that in the US. We just call it something different. Um so I think capitalism, I believe in democratizing capitalism. I believe Tell us what you mean by that. Yeah, so what I mean is that I believe that people who create the profit should be the ones to benefit from it. All who create the profit should be the ones to benefit from it. So to me, that also includes employees. It includes the people who are contributing. And it also includes there are so many corporations that are benefiting from our public policy, from our public infrastructure that our tax dollars are paying for, and none of that is recognized. And so when we think about, you know, there's the pull yourself by your own bootstraps. Yeah, I don't know that there is a single business in this country that can claim that without relying on some sort of public benefit, um, whether it's acknowledged or not. And so, what would it look like to actually externalize every cost to so that we can see that Tesla's success?

SPEAKER_03 30:29

I was gonna add Tesla. The biggest example of corporate welfare that there is.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

It is the biggest example. Like when you think about some of the barriers that our entrepreneurs see, our worker owners see, and now Colorado's doing a little bit better with worker ownership, and we've actually done a lot um uh at uh at all levels. Um, but when we think about just how difficult it is for our entrepreneurs to get a loan, just a loan. And here we have Tesla receiving a loan from our our tax dollars to actually create or to actually expand what Tesla became. Now, what would it look like to actually have the same benefits for our homegrown entities and ensure that that that actually gets shared? In all fairness, that did get paid back. But you think about how critical that seed capital was to make Tesla what it is now. Yeah, and that was our tax dollars. And yet, who benefits from that? It is the very few shareholders that have that.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

This is a we now have a trillionaire in this world, which is it's Elon. Yeah. It's Elon Musk. And it is unbelievable. And so much of that was because of our tax dollars.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

There are no bootstraps, there are bags and bags and bags of money. That is how people have propelled themselves into success or often also failure. I mean, we know with the Trump um, with the Trump example, I mean, he had so much money to start his businesses through his father and still failed and was bankrupt multiple times, but now he's the president of the United States. So you mentioned that Colorado has has some decent policies when it comes to co-ownership and when it comes to worker ownership. Uh, can you point to examples of where it's working and where we might like to scale out or what that should really look like?

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Yeah, so one of the other inspirations when I when I was in Nicaragua is seeing worker ownership and worker cooperatives. And for the first time, I learned the model and I was able to see how people can contribute to the well-being of their families and have a voice in the workplace. And so again, when we talk about um, we oftentimes in this country we think about politics as voting sometimes every four years, sometimes every two years. If you're more active, you vote in primaries, and that's it. But when you think about democracy in the workplace, worker ownership can actually be a really powerful tool to leverage that. And so in the most basic sense, worker cooperatives is that they govern, co-govern, and they share the profits or the losses of the business. And so it is a very powerful opportunity, and it's a very important opportunity for Colorado because we have so many people that are ready to retire. We have a lot of baby boomers who are owners of businesses and they're ready to retire. In the best case scenario, they might have an offer to purchase a business, but oftentimes those businesses just end up closing because they're, you know, sometimes they think that their children might be interested in getting the business. Their children are like, absolutely not, we saw you work really hard, so we're not gonna do that. Um, and so we see employee ownership as an opportunity to actually maintain these businesses in our communities. And so we know that there is a lot of opportunity there. We have we now have uh codified the Office of Employee Ownership. Um it came into uh we there was a group organizing um since a long time ago in 2018. We leverage our power and we sent a letter to at that time candidate Polis and said, we truly believe that you know about employee ownership and we truly believe that it can be really strong in Colorado. And so we've done quite a bit to um also provide uh tax uh uh credits. Um so we now, through thanks to state legislature, we have tax credits to incentivize the owners to sell it to the workers, and then we have tax credits to help the workers offset the cost of acquiring the business. We also have a revolving loan fund um to leverage the opportunity for the workers.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

So it seems this this is and this may be a simplistic view of it. Um I'm a labor and employment uh attorney and certainly have spent a time, a lot of time um meeting with and working with labor organizations. I'm very interested in your your thoughts on the labor movement generally in Colorado and as a country, and how can has the labor movement uh failed failed to achieve some of its objectives? It seems to me that that the labor movement would be a logical partner for some of these types of initiatives, but you know, it seems that that they may be you know at odds uh as well in terms of of labor organizations um and conflicts of interest with them trying to perpetuate you know what that what they're trying to accomplish. So just interested in your comments on the labor movement and and and how you see it as a partner to what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Yeah, uh full disclosure, I love the labor movement. I love my weekends, I love my protections. And I'm anti- I'm all for the workers being able to form collectively bargain. Yeah, so I would say that uh there are worker cooperatives that are unionized.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

When you think about the the work that unions can actually play in the workplace, and I'm I'm gonna share a story because um in 2020 I had the opportunity to go to Cuba and learn about how the government was shifting from state enterprises to employee-owned enterprises. And it's their it's their approach to grow their economy. And so a group of professionals went to Cuba to talk to the workers and better understand. And it was fascinating because one of the the cooperatives, um, the union rep welcomed us. And so I was so puzzled that I was like, why would a union rep, why is a union rep needed in a space where it's the workers making the decisions?

SPEAKER_02 36:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

And um, and I was fascinated by the answer because they said that unions is not just about, yes, worker protections are really important, but it's also how unions can contribute to the culture of the organization, the culture of the business. And so I was like, wow, can you imagine if we don't have to be waiting, would we have to be fighting for worker rights? What could that look like? And so in some ways I think there's a lot of opportunity for uh for partnership. Um there there's still a lot of unknowns in the US about worker ownership. And so we still have a long way to go to increase awareness, to increase a better understanding of the model as it is. But I am hopeful that we can actually get to a point where we have unionized worker cooperatives in Metro Denver that are providing not just living wage jobs and good working conditions, but also contributing to the culture of the cooperative.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah, and I you know I always laugh when we talk about socialism and whatnot, and I think, well, I was raised in the military, you know, we didn't have to worry about health care. We like my mom is is is is on retirement, you know. Um my brother's education was paid for by the government, you know. Um obviously they served our our our country and I'm proud of their service. The number one thing though I hear, and this is as a legislator, as a person in this world, um, is when you're in a small business or when you're in a worker co-op or when you're working to start your own coffee shop or your pottery studio, you don't have access to health care. And health care is so expensive, period, period, but even more uh out of reach when you don't have access to it through your employer. So when I was in the legislature, there was a lot of conversation about portable benefits and whether or not that was something that should be supported or not supported. Was that a community-based model, especially knowing that you know a large majority of new businesses, new micro businesses that are popping up across the country and across the state are led by women of color. We need access to health care. So, how do you untie the healthcare knots so that we actually can have community health and wealth? Well, I have uh in two minutes, really.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

We're gonna solve it. I I mean single payer could be a good start. Um yes, I would say that we definitely need uh portable uh services or health care, because one of the biggest barriers in for our entrepreneurs, especially women, women of color with families, um, is healthcare. It it is astronomically expensive for them to even go in the marketplace and try to get it themselves. And so um there were some ideas that we were trying to figure out what if we could do um at least to be able to capture some of the large group uh discounts, we're trying to figure out how to leverage the the risk because we know that so much of it is about risk. But when you think about the core, the fundamental design of insurance companies is not to keep you healthy. There's no money being made in healthy individuals. And so if I had, if I could do something about our our system, it is completely taking the profit motive out of it because my health should not be for profit.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Yeah, because I think most of the places that you mentioned and a lot of the countries where we see some of these models really working, they have healthcare provided through their government, right? So that's not the option or that's not the issue, right? And so because that's such a huge hurdle, um, untying that knot, I think, is something that we should really focus on across the aisle, quite frankly, because healthcare is really tying down millions of Americans, right? And and it's the one thing that I think is stifling innovation in a country that believes so much in innovation and entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

So um, you know, I just um I'm I'm fascinated by the grassworks, uh grass grassroots work that you do. Um, to go out and talk to ordinary Coloradans about the work that you do, you know, and and as Leslie pointed out, probably the first thing some people are thinking, oh my god, this is socialism. So I, you know, which I I understand that that that there are reasons w why people misunderstand that term, but walk us through what a grassroots conversation looks like for you when you're talking to folks that don't know about your work and and how do you get people more interested and supportive of the work that you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Yeah, so I should have also mentioned that I'm a community organizer at heart. So I typically start with a conversation about their self-interest. Right. And so what does that look like for you when you think about, for example, for you in a small rural town, who are the economic drivers there? Um one of the things that is important for everyone to recognize is how much of our of our tax dollars, our gifts, our contributions, our assets are being invested in the economic system that is currently created. Um I grew up in the Swansea neighborhood. It is uh I left the uh the US 2011, I came back in 2017, my neighborhood was unrecognizable. All of the investment and to know that the massive investment that happened in my neighborhood did not had not benefited the local residents to me is alarming. And this is not a left or right issue, this is a local issue. And so when we think about all of the tax dollars that were being invested at the Central 70 project with the uh National Western Center authority, these are not oftentimes people think about community wealth as charity. This is not charity, this is about ensuring that our local dollars are circulating in our own communities. Um, because what typically happens is we start with a, let's take my one of the local institutions, for example, a National Western Center authority, there was a lot of money to redevelop that space. What would it look like if instead of having the RFP go out of state, even for the most basic basic services of janitorial services, RFP goes, somebody out of states gets the contract, what do they do? They come and hire people for minimum wage. Where does that profit go? Not in our communities. And so if you can just imagine it's the same process, but instead of an out-of-state company, it is a worker cooperative that is providing the services right down the street. And they can go provide the services, high-quality services, and go home and benefit from those uh from those services, from that profit that they've created. And so I I talk to people based on where their conversation or where their reality is. And so if it is, I I talk to landscapers and I say, wouldn't it be great to have a landscaping contract at the hospital?

unknown 43:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

The hospital cares about your well-being, at least in theory. And so shouldn't their business practices reflect that? And so that's what we're doing. We're working with community groups to help them to strengthen uh the worker cooperative movement, to start more worker cooperatives. We work with our local businesses to help them strengthen their processes so they can do business with larger entities. And then we work with hospitals. Universities, municipalities, institutions to help them understand why going with a local business just makes business sense.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Keeping health and wealth in the community. I love that. I love the hospital example too. It's very clear to me now exactly what the work is. So we are almost out of time, but I want to give you the final uh say and tell us how can people support you and your work either directly with the Center for Community Wealth or in their own communities? What can it look like if they say, you know what, right on, I completely agree with you. What should they do? How can we get started?

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yeah, number one, shop local. Our dollars, every single one of us has the power to support our local businesses. And our businesses are struggling. And so maybe take that extra step and see if whatever you were gonna buy at the large uh online store, uh, if you take that extra step to see if it's uh available locally. Um number two, ask more of your elected officials. This is a time when we deserve to know where our tax dollars are going and how they're being invested, and ensure that those are invested in the ways and the outcomes that you want to see in your community. We all have the right to do that. Umber three, shop co-op. Go to our website, communitywealth.org, and uh support our local cooperatives. We have some amazing cooperatives that are providing goods and services in our community. And number four, we're always looking for volunteers and financial support. So donate Center for Community Wealth. We are in a capital campaign right now to finish our space on um in uh at the heart of uh five points. So come visit. And number five, check out the podcast, The Wealth We Build, because we go into a lot more detail and everything that we've been talking about for the last 25 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

I love that. Well, I will definitely be stopping by because you know I love five points. I'm right in the neighborhood, right next door in Park Hill. Um, but I also love shopping, so I think I think I can I think I can help out a little bit. So thank you so much for coming. We really appreciate you have uh having on the show and sharing your information. And I don't know, he he's hedging a little bit over to the left on some of these issues, and it's really fun to watch.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

I I just love um hearing about how somebody messages their their core objectives. So I think you're you're obviously uh an effective community organizer. You're you're very articulate in terms of the the way you present this stuff. So I I appreciated the conversation today.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

Thank you. Thanks everyone. Stay with us. We'll be right back with What's Bugging Us This Week, Leslie and Cole Edition.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

All right, Cole.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Uh it's just me and you.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

What's bugging you this week?

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Well, this is gonna be like a therapy session for me a little bit. Um, you know, and Leslie, I've I've really been talking a lot about what our nation's capital looks like and how it makes me sad.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Um, but you know, this reflecting pool nonsense is just so out of control. Um the president now convinced that we have, you know, somebody cutting a big gash. And when did this person do it? Right. They put on like scuba gear and and go out in the reflecting pool just to make Trump look a knife and cut it, and none of this is caught on video, right? So I'm not sure how that happened. But it probably didn't help that he decided to drive his the beast, yeah, the length of the reflecting pool. But you know, we're now arresting Americans. Um, or I don't know if they're Americans, maybe they're tourists, but people that are touching the water in the reflecting pool, we're accusing them of being vandals. Yeah. Yeah. And so maybe this is maybe this is Trump's plan to get us all stirred up and and and angry about the reflecting pool while he's, you know, ripping off our country and stealing our elections and trying to stop people from voting. You know, so accepting jets from from Qatar. You know. So uh, you know, um I I'm weary of all of the nonsense, but I think we've just got to be vigilant and and stand up to this these these crazy tactics. Um you know, the reflecting pool wasn't vandalized. If it was vandalized, Donald Trump was the vandal and that idiot contract that he hired on the no-bit contract. So that's continuing to bug me because of the lack of respect that we see for our nation's capital, our institutions, our traditions, and and really and and I lived in Washington, D.C. Um, and to see what's happened to the city just is is incredibly uh incredibly sad.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Well, it's it's it's you know, it's bugging me too because quite frankly, it's kind of absurd to see folks who I guess what what I'll say is it's kind of absurd to see what happens when you hire a bunch of people who don't believe in science trying to fix these problems that actually need science. I don't know if you saw when they were pouring little gallon containers of, I guess, chlorine or hydrogen peroxide into into the pump into the pool thinking that that was going to clean it when you would need truckloads uh to even have an impact. Of course it did not work, right? And instead of like actually using science and fixing the pool that way, um they're blaming everyday Americans, tourists, people who are just walking through DC and detaining them and saying, Oh, you touched it. You must have nefarious um ideas in mind. Now, I don't know about you, but when I've gone to DC and I've gone to that space, I have definitely touched the water. It's almost like it's instinct.

SPEAKER_03 49:30

I stuck this kind of gross, but I put my feet the problem, maybe that's why it's that color, maybe I'm the vandal, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

But yeah, I mean it's just really absurd. And again, it's like the clown show that is Washington, D.C. I mean, they they destroyed the lawn with that fight that they were having. And in fact, I saw many videos of people fighting during that event themselves, you know, and it just doesn't make any sense. I just feel like none of that should happen. We don't allow that to happen. Um, and when you look now at who is draining the swamp versus who is creating the swamp, I think we know who that is, and that's Trump.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Thanks for the therapy session. What's bugging you?

SPEAKER_00 50:10

You know, I I mean, I think that that's that's the biggest thing. I mean, we've talked about in our earlier segments some of the, you know, Trump stopping the housing act and really focusing more or saying it's for the the SAFE Act, which makes no sense. You know, that's all bugging me right now. And I gotta tell you, as we're getting this close to the primary elections, we're getting this close to, you know, voting in Colorado, it does bug me that there are so many people still who are accepting or who are uh making excuses for this administration. I don't care if you're Democrat or Republican or independent. What's going on right now in Washington and the impact it's having on everyday people's everyday lives should be bugging us all.

SPEAKER_03 50:53

Yeah, you know, and there's and there's nothing conservative about the stuff that's going on. Um and and I, you know, I'm so tired of Congress not leading. I'm so tired of Congress not acting. Um I wish, you know, we had our our good friend Jason Crow on last week. I we we could use a few more Jason Crows in Congress, frankly, to talk about the corruption that's happening. But we did have four Republican senators this week who crossed over with Democrats to say that the Iran War requires congressional approval. Of course, Donald Trump went to Capitol Hill, threw a big fit, yelled at people, got into a fight with Bill Cassidy from all accounts, and then that night, Bill Cassidy switched his vote and went back uh went back on his word. So um I think it was Bill Cassidy and and Rand Paul who who changed their mind.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

What do you think happened there?

SPEAKER_03 51:43

Yeah, you know, I mean it was like uh, you know, Bill Cass what has Bill Cassidy had to lose? He's already lost his primary. Trump basically sabotaged his career in the U.S. Senate. Um, these people have got to start showing some leadership, show some spine, and if you're not gonna show some sign, then then they should they should be voted out because it's a co-equal branch of government. Start acting like it.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Yeah. You know, and and the final thing I'll say is that you know, on the other side of the aisle, Democrats need to get their act together because there is no reason why Democrats shouldn't sweep um in the midterms, but also additionally, um obviously in the general. And as we are vying and and competing against who who should or shouldn't be the next Democratic nominee for president, I think we need to all take a step back, right? And and come up with a clear plan, a clear message to Americans as to what we're gonna do to move this country forward and fix the problems that were created in this administration. And if we can't do that, then we don't deserve to win any of those seats.

SPEAKER_03 52:38

Are you nervous about how Democrats are gonna perform in the midterm? Sounds like you're a little nervous.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

So I am nervous about this cycle. I am always nervous about politics. I'm sp specifically nervous that Democrats aren't gonna get their act together and they're gonna start eating their own and you know they are eating their own. They're destroying candidates before anyone even gets a chance to make a case. And so hopefully that doesn't happen. But we'll get into that uh in a future show because that's all the time we have today on politics as personal with Leslie and Cole. But thank you all so much for listening. And remember, you can follow us wherever you get your podcast on social media, and a special thank you to all of our listeners, all of our followers, and of course, our crew that works so hard to make sure that we come to you every single week. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

And a personal shout out to my favorite follower, Mom. Thanks very much for watching the shows. My mom's one of your biggest fans there, Leslie.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Hi, Mom.

SPEAKER_03 53:30

Remember, friends, politics is personal, so keep talking.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Thank you so much for listening. This episode of Politics is Personal, hosted by Leslie Harrod and Cole Whist. The episode featured Jessica Ol'geen of Center for Community Wealth, and was directed and edited by Julie Jackson with videographer Hallie Wist. And produced by Leslie Harrod, Cole Whist, Ian Soleri, and Julie Jackson. Music by JKK. And follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, and any site where you get your podcast. At Politics is Personal with Leslie and Cole. Recorded at the Colorado Symphony Studio with Truce Media Collective. All rights reserved.