Politics is Personal with Leslie + Cole
Politics is Personal is a weekly video and audio podcast hosted by former Colorado legislators Leslie Herod and Cole Wist. Built on a real friendship forged through years of legislative work, the show brings together a Black queer Democrat from Denver and a straight white former Republican from rural Colorado to have the kinds of honest, complicated conversations that feel increasingly rare in American politics.
Rooted in the “Colorado Way,” the podcast offers a grounded, relatable approach to national conversations. Designed for the “exhausted majority,” Politics is Personal invites listeners back into political dialogue with curiosity, respect, and the belief that real conversation is still possible.
Politics is Personal with Leslie + Cole
Ep 11: DSA, Graham Platner, & Lindsey Graham
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In this episode of Politics is Personal with Leslie & Cole, we talk about the Democratic Socialists of America, if they have a figure head of the party, and how voters are turning to Mamdani like Politicians. Graham Platner and all things Maine, and the Passing of Lindsey Graham.
Welcome back to Politics as Personal with Leslie and Cole. I'm Leslie Harrod.
SPEAKER_01And I'm still Cole West. Leslie, always great to be with you. Friends, we're going to have a really fun discussion today. There's a lot of stuff happening in national politics, state politics, DSA, Graham Platner, Victor Marx, Unity Compact. So we look forward to you joining us today. Come on back.
SPEAKER_00Hi Nicole. How was your weekend?
SPEAKER_01Uh it was good. It's way too hot and way too smoky. How about you? How are you sleeping?
SPEAKER_00Oh my God. Not great because of this smoke. Um, people, hey, how about you guys stop lighting fireworks and throwing cigarette butts out of the car window and all the other things that during this time that is causing these fires, that devastating, quite frankly, fires across the state.
SPEAKER_01Do you know how to do a rain dance?
SPEAKER_00Me?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we should do a rain dance in the next show. We need rain in the worst way.
SPEAKER_00So uh hopefully there are folks that are doing something like that. Um, but no, absolutely I mean, like it's just it like just use common sense. I mean, obviously, fires will still start, but the ones that are started because of people's negligence is just absurd. And so please stop because I have terrible asthma and I cannot sleep at night, and so many others are dealing with this terrible air quality. And so there we are.
SPEAKER_01And on a personal note, thanks to all the firefighters who are out there on the front lines, who are putting their lives at risk, trying to keep our communities safe, trying to save homes, save land. So, you know, just kudos to those brave folks that are out there doing that important work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and of course, we have to, you know, give our condolences to those uh who lost their lives in the fire as well. Um it's just it's a really bad fire season, and so hopefully people will rein it in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So I want to hear what's going on with DSA. Yeah. Um, we're now a couple weeks since the June 30th primary, and there's been a lot of discussion on uh the DSA movement in Denver. I am dying to hear your perspective on what's going on, what you're hearing. Um, so I'm all ears.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, okay, so let me just give you the tea, okay? Because I have been hearing so much over the past few weeks about what's going on with DSA, what's going, you know, who's gonna take what seat. And so I guess I'm gonna give you guys a little bit of gossip right now. Um so the big question on everyone's minds right now is what is Julie Gonzalez going to do? Um, after kind of, I think, a maybe a couple news cycles of not great press for her, um, wondering why she was one of the few that lost the race and everything, we actually saw some really positive press come out of actually people didn't take her seriously, she worked really hard. Um, so she has like the the the world is her oyster, if you will. And so there are many different camps that believe that she's doing different things. What I have heard is um, and maybe she's listening, hi Julie, um sitting here, is that she might be running for Denver mayor.
SPEAKER_01Okay, interesting.
SPEAKER_00Um, we know that there is a race shaping up against Mike Johnston. Also heard that Chantelle Lewis might be in that race as well. Um, folks are gearing up uh who is my council person uh to take her seat and making calls, which signals to me that she might have told a few people that she's not interested in running. Is she also running for mayor? And then will this be kind of a DSA head-to-head? I don't know. Um, I guess if there is, oh, can't forget Lisa Calderon, who's also still in the mix. So I guess if there is a challenge from the far left, how many challengers from the far left will there be? Um, there's also conversation about DSA taking over the at-large seat that Sarah Parity is stepping back from. And then there's talk about what DSA is going to do with the party in general. So, I mean, another rumor that I'm not sure is true is Julie is considering, and probably people are asking her to uh run for state party chair against Shad, who's the current state party chair, so that DSA has more power in this movement. I don't know. All eyes are on uh Senadora Julie Gonzalez to see kind of what she is doing next, and I think it's really interesting. Um, and so that's kind of the the DSA path right now, I think, but there's also a lot of infighting happening uh within the Democrats and DSA uh in Denver and throughout Colorado. We know that um uh that podcaster and political analyst Deep has been really the one behind orchestrating alongside of DSA some of the strategic moves that they've been taking. And I think the conversation around, you know, where the plot points are next is really is really gonna square and center him in those conversations. And so I think it's really, really fascinating. But what the infighting is that I see the most as well is that um, well, let me put it this way I think Democrats need to remember that DSA, similar to the Tea Party, did not happen by chance. The Democratic Socialists of America are not gaining their stronghold in Colorado and within the Democratic Party by chance. It is because Democrats did not act. Democrats are were moving too far to the middle and thinking that all independence in Colorado meant moderate. And what we're seeing right now is it quite frankly doesn't independent does not mean moderate. Um people, not just young people, but people across the board want to see Democrats who take action, who stand up and who do what they say they're gonna do, not say something, campaign one way, and then get into office and become this moderate damn that really you can't distinguish from anyone else or has no policies are different from the Republican Party. And so, in my opinion, if the Democrats want to unite, like you know, there was that unity rally that happened, I think, last week or week before, actually want to unite around our candidates and unite around our party, we need to start taking action once in office and communicate that with the people. DSA's got that part right, and that's why they're winning. Uh and so, regardless of who they put up or whatnot, I think their messaging is working. Not because they are socialist or because they're the anti-Democrat, but because they are ones who people want to give a chance to actually get stuff done.
SPEAKER_01That's a lot of tea. Uh I I should have been taking notes. So I do have a couple of questions for you. So other than Millot, um, who would you say is the darling of DSA right now in Colorado? Is it Julie Gonzalez?
SPEAKER_00I think it's Julie Gonzalez. I think it's Deep too. I mean, Deep is behind the scenes doing all of this. Um, and I just find it really fascinating to see to watch him as a former, you know, ledge staffer in the General Assembly to being kind of the mastermind behind what is happening with the um the insecurity within the party. Um and so kudos to him. But yeah, I think Julie Gonzalez is one that we're watching. Um, and I think that what we're also watching is people like Lorena Garcia, um Javier Mayberry, all throughout the state. You know, where are um where are the DSA candidates? They're not just in Denver, um, and where can they also have some pickups? I think there's a lot of options.
SPEAKER_01So is Manny Rutin L still outside the room knocking to get back in? What's what are you hearing about Manny Rutinell and his riff?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's so interesting. I mean, look, the name of our show is Politics is Personal, and I think we have to remember that it is very personal. It sounds to me like Deep and Manny had uh personal disagreement. Um, and it was per predominantly based on policy, but not all of it. I mean, when you read the letters that Deep put out around Manny, it seemed very personal. Um, and so I think that their beef is with each other. I don't know that it is actually permeating throughout the party right now. I have not heard anything since Deep's letter and Manny's landslide of a win. I mean, Manny won by a lot. And so uh I haven't heard much about that. But what I will say is I hope Manny doesn't moderate too much because that's not what the voters want. I want to make sure that he stays true to who he is and maybe define who he is a little bit better for folks who are a little bit confused, but then continue to talk about things like abolishing ICE, like where he comes from, who his family is, that we want we want to make sure that we have health care that people can afford and that people can take care of their families. I don't want to see him go moderate because he thinks that's the answer to Gabe Evans, because quite frankly, I don't think it is.
SPEAKER_01So obviously on the Republican side of the aisle, we know a lot about dysfunctional politics in Colorado. And the Republican Party in this state has had a history of eating its own and infighting and purity tests. So it's interesting to me that the Democrats seem to be going down the same path, which I would consider to be very self-destructive, not promoting unity and not focusing on the things that unite the party rather than really focusing on what divides the party and then essentially creating an us and them dynamic within the party. And maybe Democrats in Colorado feel like they have that luxury because they're on the verge of a supermajority in the state legislature. They're likely to control all four of the statewide offices after November's election. Um, but uh you know, it's just interesting to me that the Democrats are repeating what I would consider to be the same fatal mistakes that the Colorado Republicans have made. What what do you think about that?
SPEAKER_00Well, I want to go into that a little bit deeper. So, really, I mean, what lessons do you think that the Democrats should be heeding right now? Uh, especially considering your experience with the Republican Party and kind of the Tea Party wave and the gun wave and all of that. What are you seeing as the red flags and what should we be what should we be doing? What should be taking away?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, I I think you've got to decide whether or not you're okay with some disagreements about policy within your party. Yeah. Right? And the Colorado Republican Party has been pretty strict, kind of like if you disagree with us on abortion, you're out. If you disagree with us about guns, you're out. If you disagree with us about Trump, you're out. And that's happening nationally. So why set up litmus tests? And what I would encourage, if I were uh, you know, a leader in the in the Democratic Party in Colorado, which I am not, don't aspire to do that, don't aspire to be a Democrat. But but I will say that leadership of the parties needs to sort of bring candidates together, bring uh the various factions of the party together, and find ways to try to build the majority and to try to grow the party. Because I do think that there are opportunities in Colorado, particularly amongst swing voters, the Latino uh voting base, which is has been very swingy in the last couple of national elections, to sort of solidify some of those blocks. But the last thing voters want to see is infighting. I think it turns people off. Voters don't like it. Um, it's a lot of inside baseball, and it makes politics, frankly, look very dysfunctional.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, and I will say that there are so many similarities between what we're seeing with the MAGA movement and what we're seeing now with the DSA or the far left movement. And really that is, you know, who can this is again my opinion, but it's about who can capture people's anger enough to then move them into action. That's what MAGA did. People were upset. Unaffiliated voters, I wouldn't even call them swing. I don't think they knew what their policy ideas were, but they were mad. They were angry about, you know, about the cost of living. They were angry at Obama, and quite frankly, with some racism in there about being angry that a black man and black people were progressing, right? They were angry, misdirected anger at trans people, right? And so all of this anger really led to a a red wave and the MAGA movement being so successful. I do see DSA and the far left actually capitalizing on anger as well. And that is with Democrats leaving the party in large amounts, right? Um, and again, they're not moderates, they're further left or even just quite frankly left, but they're angry that things haven't happened, that folks haven't stood up and and fought and defended them and their families and their neighbors in ways that they think are effective. And so true or not true, um, whether or not the Democrats could or should do more, the the reality is people are angry that they haven't done enough, you know, and that they've moderated too much and they're not even making statements that are strong enough. And so when you have that anger, I think litmus tests are kind of the first thing that people go to. Well, do you believe this, this, and this? If not, I'm not for you because you're just gonna talk to my talk in my face and then not do anything. And so I agree that we have to have a bigger tent and we can't keep putting these litmus tests in front of people, but folks gotta answer the damn question. Right. You know, what do you believe in? You know, are you are you for this or are you not? And if not, then just say that. You know, don't give us some politician type answer because what I think people don't want to see are more politicians being elected into office.
SPEAKER_01And some of that is what got Manny Rutnell in trouble, right? Because he, I think, pretty clearly has changed his position on some fundamental issues that's very important to DSA. Um I the there's one thing I will say about insurgent political movements like the Tea Party, like MAGA, uh like DSA. And I'm sorry to lump all those in together, but I will call them insurgents. It's interesting, right? Yeah. It's that these are insurgencies, they're challenging the establishment, and that is it brings new candidates to to the forefront. Yeah, right. It brings new blood, it brings new ideas because politics gets stale. And I think as you pointed out um on our last show, um you know, people that have been in office for 20, 30 years have forgotten what it's like to be in the grassroots wing of the party. So in that sense, it brings new blood into the party, it brings new candidates out. Um and I think the challenge for party leadership, Democrat, Republican, is how do you keep all those factions moving in the same direction so that you can elect candidates? Because at the end of the day, the whole purpose for a political party is to elect candidates. And if you're not successfully electing candidates, then what's the freaking point?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean I agree. I think okay, so we we've been kind of making our rounds in pr on press, and we did some, you know, post-election coverage and a little bit before for the primary. And what I find really interesting is when I'm sitting across from uh a Republican um political strategist or analyst, and they they they cheer that Manny was the one that was selected for CD8, saying, Oh, that's that's our best case scenario because now we have some some crazy liberal that nobody likes that we can run against Gabe Evans. I think they're completely wrong. I also hear it from the Democrats saying, I'm so excited that Victor Marx is the one because that was elected, because he's gonna pull the party down and he's gonna pull the entire ballot down with him. It's interesting, and I don't know if I'm living in some kind of like just bubble of my own. I mean, we all are. Um, but I tend to agree that Marx at the top of the ticket is extremely problematic for the reputation of Colorado Republicans. I would be very like, I don't know if people would be proud to say they're a Republican right now in Colorado, especially with him being the head of the ticket. I do not feel the same way about Manny. I think Manny is a great candidate. I think he's exactly what they want in CD8, and I think that that them kind of touting, oh, this is the best thing ever, is just messaging. Um that and that they're trying to get ahead of Manny really, I think, wiping out Evans in the November election.
SPEAKER_01So let's let's talk for a minute about what's in my feed on the Republican side. Yeah, please. Um, and that is um it's a complete mess over there. Uh the the Republicans have finally uh selected their candidate for governor, Victor Marks. What I'm hearing is that the El Paso County Republicans are very upset that it's Victor Marks. They wanted Scott Bottoms. So they're they're revolting. Would that have been better? So well, but they're revolting now and saying, well, we're gonna support Greg Lopez, okay, the independent candidate. Oh wow. Um and then you've got you know Barb Kirkmeyer, who I think in some of the press after uh the the primary was decided, basically was very vague about who she was gonna support for governor, uh, and then said, by the way, I still haven't killed anyone. So, which suggests to me that Barb's probably there was no unity party on that side. Barb's probably not gonna be checking the Victor Marx box. And I so it makes me wonder on the Republican side, what what is gonna happen? Are we gonna see Republicans unite behind Victor Marx? I don't think that's happening. We're two weeks after the primary election, and it seems as dysfunctional as ever. Greg Lopez is running as an independent. Also a laughing stock. Yeah, you know, it's um so I I just I when we keep wondering how low Colorado Republicans can go, um, I think they'll go lower. And if you see Greg Lopez siphoning off uh conservative votes um that that you know would would otherwise be going to Victor Marx, you could be looking at a Victor Marx campaign getting 25 to 30 percent of the vote.
SPEAKER_00How is he raising all this money?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I you know, I I think he's self-funding. Um I think he does have a national fundraising platform. Maybe we should have Kelly Dore come back on the show and talk about where you know where Victor Marx gets his money. But it's it's interesting to me that uh Victor Marx or the Victor Marx campaign sent out a four-page unity compact to every Republican candidate, uh, federal, state, and local candidates to ask them essentially, are you going to unite with the campaign? And let me just read you. See, it's because I have not seen this. So, you know, one of the comments I just thought was interesting, and I probably should have gotten my glasses before. I'm looking at this on my phone. But so this is under uh and there are all these categories in the Victory Com in the Victory, or I'm sorry, the Unity Compact. So it says under professional communication across the ticket. Republican candidates may differ on policy, strategy, or emphasis. A strong ticket can acknowledge those differences while communicating respectfully. We ask participating campaigns to avoid unnecessary public attacks on fellow nominees, address coordination concerns directly, and handle disagreements professionally.
SPEAKER_00Why do you need an agreement to be professional and to be respectful and to be kind?
SPEAKER_01You know, so and I remember back in in 2016 when I was running and this was the first time Donald Trump was on the ballot in a general election, we were all asked to sign essentially the the Unity Compact with with the Trump campaign. I did not endorse uh Donald Trump in that campaign. Um and and there were a number number of us who didn't have our name, you know, on that list. But um I I just it's interesting to me that the Marx campaign has decided to do this unity compact and to try to to sort of figure out where all the candidates are, are they gonna support Marx? What happens? I mean, I guess if you're not gonna support him, you're probably not gonna return the compact check in the box saying I don't I'm not gonna support Victor Marx. But then what happens? Right. Do does the party then shame those candidates? Um Does Victor Marx attack them?
SPEAKER_00There's no pledge.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I think that's really interesting. I've never signed anything like that or seen anything like that. I mean, I have had like the no-negative campaigning thing and all of that, but never this unity pledge thing, four pages long. It seems really interesting. What are you trying to what do you need to say in four pages that you can't actually just have a conversation? Why wouldn't Victor Marx just pick up the phone and have conversations with all of the Republicans and just say, hey, listen, you know? I have I happen to believe that um the media, us and a lot of folks, we're so busy just fact-checking Victor Marx's absurd statements that there probably is more in his actual background that he's worried that might come out as well. And I think it will. Um, I think people aren't taking him seriously, and so it's kind of fun to just poke at the different things that he said, you know, how many people has he murdered, et cetera, et cetera. His dog, of course, um uh answering for him because he has he has said his dog can answer for him, which is so fascinating. Um, but there's gotta be more. I mean, you don't become Victor Marx and in a freaking, you know, um, out of nowhere, you know? And so I'm kind of curious to see where it goes uh and what is really in his past and if that's gonna come out in this campaign. Um, but I think this unity pledge just shows that the Republican Party doesn't have it together and won't have it together. Um and so obviously we know who the next governor for the state of Colorado is gonna be. It's gonna be Phil Weiser. Um it will just determine how badly Republicans lose seats in Colorado based on how they handle this election cycle in November.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I did some press on whether or not there would be a drag on down ballot Republicans. Um and I think it's an interesting proposition because uh local races, state house, state senate, really are about the candidate and how well the candidate matches the district. But you know as as well as I, in a close race, if there's some drag because of who's at the top of the ticket, that can make the difference in a very close race. And we know in some of these state house and state senate. Races, the margin can be a couple thousand votes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01And when you have Republicans, let's say, who are going to undervote in the governor's race because they supported Scott Bottoms, because they supported Barb Kirkmeyer, uh, because they or just because they don't like Victor Marx, will they then go lower in the ballot and decide to undervote those Republican local races? So I I I do think there's gonna be an impact. Uh I think so much of it just sort of depends on how well Victor Marx can do in a general election election campaign. But one one rumor that I heard, and I want to hear your reaction to this. Um I I'm hearing that the Marx campaign does not plan to do any media.
SPEAKER_00You mean have any interviews? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean he probably shouldn't. He's terrible at it. Probably not with Kyle Clark. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But so how do you, you know, and we we've talked about this. There are there are new ways for candidates to reach voters now, then uh, you know, a traditional forum or debate. Um and and and so I I don't know what he plans to do in terms of reaching voters. Um I think he should avoid a debate with Phil Weiser at all costs. I think Phil will clean his clock. Yeah, it will be fun to watch. But what what do what do you think about uh a candidate who's saying I'm not gonna do any media?
SPEAKER_00I mean he's not a real candidate. When you say across the board, you know, I understand campaign strategy, you know, and I've said this before. If that's the strategy and you're gonna say I'm only gonna do three or four debates, and then the rest of the time I'm gonna actually be talking directly to voters in their districts, in their neighborhoods, you know, in their counties, to me, that's fine. That's your strategy, that's your that's your path for victory. Um but when you say I'm not gonna talk to anybody, I'm just gonna do my own, you know, direct-to-camera stuff and put it out on my own platform, and that's it. That just shows that you know how weak you are, um, that you cannot handle one or two debates or public interviews with folks like Kyle Clark. I mean, listen, you might not like interviewing with Kyle Clark, but to blacklist him or say that you're not gonna do it at all just tells me how powerful Kyle is and how strong uh he is and how weak you are, right? You gotta stand up to the tough questions and you gotta have the answers. Um I think that these, excuse me to say, mediocre white men who become come into these positions have never really had to answer for their positions. And we saw Victor Marx displaying just that. He got into this position. He has, you know, a good amount of financial wealth for himself, and he can't answer a simple question without pointing to his dog. Like that's absurd, you know? And so I think we're just seeing that play out here. Um, he won't win. I don't really care if he's never seen on TV again. Um, but I do hope that our media and folks really still continue to look into his past, his statements. I think he'll he'll um he will throw himself under the bus on his own social media channels as well. And so it it will it will be it will be the the the the clown show that is uh quite frankly the Republican Party uh in Colorado, and they're gonna uh trot out these folks, maybe on their own platforms, but they're not gonna say anything that will be shocking or surprising to us in a way that it will be sane or rational. It will all be ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01So I mean uh there there's this wave of non-traditional candidates. And and I would put not ideologically, but I think from an optic standpoint, I would put Victor Marx in the same category as Graham Plattner, who was a non-traditional candidate, one that hadn't served in government office before. Clearly he was the darling of uh would you say he was the darling of of sort of the the the DSA crowd? I mean Bertie Sanders endorsed it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do think so.
SPEAKER_01Um despite his his Nazi tattoo, which was an interesting, uh, interesting contrast. But um share with me your thoughts about about Graham Plattiner and what a mess there. I mean, who who vetted this guy or who didn't vet this guy?
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, it's ridiculous. So wait, before we go to that though, I just have one quick question for you. Yeah. Um how does Gabe Gabe Evans distance himself from the clown show that is the Republican Party?
SPEAKER_01You know, I I don't know Gabe well, uh, but he ran a good campaign two years ago, won a very close race. Um he's in an impossible uh he's in an impossible position. Yeah. Um you know, I I think he's gonna be saddled with the Trump problems. He's gonna be tr saddled in a district with with a significant Latino population, he's gonna be saddled with with the ICE problem. Yeah. ICE is back in the headlines. So I I don't know how he shakes that. I think Manny's gonna win this general election. I think it's gonna be a comfortable margin. Okay. I think the Republicans are gonna spend a lot of money on this race. But but once again, as I talked about earlier, the weakness in the governor's race for Republicans can make a significant difference in a close race. Okay by all accounts, CD 8 should be a nail biter. Yeah, I just don't think it's gonna be a nail biter because the Colorado Republican Party is such a mess.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay, good. Well, thank you. Um I just I was so curious about that. But back to Graham Plantner Plantner. Um, you know, that this is like kind of brings back up, and this is in my feed as well, the Bernie Bro problem. Um, you know, there was a lot of us, particularly women, women of color, who had a lot of issues with the Bernie Bros. It's not necessarily about Bernie Sanders' platform, it was about the people he attracted and how they were uh silencing the voices of black women in particular, um black women, black people in general, and then really people across the board who were not straight up Bernie bros, talk about economics and that's it, you know? Uh and what you see with Graham is that playing out again, that like the misogyny, um, you know, it it is it it is it does not make any sense to me that we can explain away a Nazi tattoo in the year of our Lord, 2026, and just say that an anti, you know, that these things are okay, right? Or you didn't know what you what tattoo you got. I mean, come on, you know. I don't know if you're tatted.
SPEAKER_01Um don't have any. You're gonna have to take my word for it.
SPEAKER_00I've got a couple, and I know what they mean, okay? And it's just kind of ridiculous to say that he didn't know. Um, and then when you hear from all of these women, in particular those who dated him in the past who said he absolutely knew what those tattoos meant, um, the vetting process was absurd. And the people who vetted him, particularly his campaign manager uh and I don't know, his second whoever, who went around on their media tour talking about, you know, we knew some of the things, but not all, and those shouldn't disqualify you, they absolutely should disqualify you. Um sexual assaults and sexual harassment, um, rape should disqualify you from being in office, period. Um, and that's what I believe, you know, uh, and when we allow that type of um, I mean, quite frankly, evil to seep into our candidates, into our campaigns, into our workplaces, we know like what happens, right? We know that it really is a cancer for the entire system uh and and has the power to really bring down um the impact that a party can have, that individuals can have, right, that government can have when you have folks at the top who are harassing and raping um people in community and even harassing their staff. Now, the campaign manager I heard on social media as well that he actually also had sexual harassment charges filed against him on other campaigns. And so it seems like, again, kind of like we're gonna excuse this part of it, you know, and we're just gonna brow up together and support this guy and ignore the truth about what's going on. Now, I appreciate the fact that Maine took action and that the Maine Democrats stepped up and said, we will they strong armed him. I mean, I don't know if you heard his uh his statement, but they strong armed him. They took away his money, they took away his infrastructure.
SPEAKER_01He was very pissed.
SPEAKER_00Without apology.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, without an apology, without owning anything, without taking responsibility. I mean, quite frankly, it was a playwright out of the Trump playbook.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It really was. Yeah. And doesn't that remind you of somebody? Steve Lebsock. Uh well, let's let's let's talk about that. So let's let's bring yeah, bring it local a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, you know, and and for for our our viewers who may not be familiar with Steve Lebsock, kind of s set the table there in terms of of you know what the context and what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um Colorado is a place, I think a state where we don't have a long history of expelling members for really any reason. I mean, you know, Cole, you've served. People get in fights on the floor. There are things that are said that should never be said in uh in a public situation or even thought privately that are said and done. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that happens, but in order to be expelled from the General Assembly, it's got to be pretty egregious. And Steve Lebsock um was elected uh to the Colorado General Assembly as a Democrat, uh, and then started to get um first by Faith Winter, who has since um passed away, but who courageously stepped up and said that she was sexually harassed by him at a Democratic event. Um, and then more stepped forward. Uh staff members, lobbyists saying that, all saying that he sexually harassed them as well, uh, to the point where they not only felt uncomfortable, they felt threatened. Um and then Steve Lebsock did have to go through uh expulsion hearings in the in the College General Assembly after a report that came out saying that things were very much credible. Uh, and it was a tough time for us to make a determination as a party if we were going to expel this member and maybe, you know, how would it look if we are saying yes, a Democrat did this and now we have to take action? But we did.
SPEAKER_01You know, I I remember that day just like it was yesterday. You and I were both in in the General Assembly at that time. It was a full day of debate on the floor. Um, and candidly, I was very proud of the the conversation that we had as colleagues. And ultimately, I think the vote was 52 to 9 with four absences that day. And so it met the threshold to expel Steve Lepsock. But you know, uh one of the things that I focused on was the the retaliation that Steve Lepsock had engaged in by essentially publishing um and and distributing to all the members of the General Assembly or of the House essentially his uh his set of allegations regarding uh the sexual history of his accusers, um retaliatory for them engaging in what was otherwise protected activity. Um and so, you know, I mean there are sometimes that I I I struggle with the issue of how do we balance somebody's due process rights and a presumption of innocence, um, and at the same time respecting uh the rights of victims who have who show incredible bravery by by coming forward. Um and you've got to sort of strike that balance. And I think for me, ultimately with Steve Labsok, as with Graham Plattner, it was the arrogance that Steve Lebsock showed to all of us. And instead of engaging in, and if there was a denial, then there should have been a a denial and a thoughtful discussion of the issues, but not doing it in a retaliatory way. Absolutely. And Graham Plattner's speech really reminded me of the defiance of Steve Lebsok and in that expulsion hearing, and that was uh, you know, Graham Plattiner didn't say, you know, I hear the victims, you know, I have a different take on it, but it was a very disrespectful uh statement, you know, that he made. So I think we're still struggling in this country um with trying to respect uh victims uh and women. And women, right? So what what so what is the what's the misogyny uh component of the Bernie Bros? What's the origin of that? Where where's that coming from?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I don't know where it's coming from, but for the fact that it's misogyny, you know? Right. I mean, that's really what it is. And and Cole, I remember when we were going to the LebSock uh saga and uh people weren't sure where the Republicans were gonna vote. And to be clear, we needed Republicans to vote with us because it took a two-thirds um majority in order to expel him, and we were not a supermajority at the time. We did not have those votes. We needed Republicans, and the Republicans for a while were really banding together saying, no, we're not gonna do this, you know, for different reasons, but saying we're not gonna expel him.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you remember what that reason was because the state senate had its own problems.
SPEAKER_00And they were like, if we do it to him, we're gonna have to do it to our own.
SPEAKER_01And the state senate at that point was the the Republicans did have a majority. So, you know, I was certainly getting pressure from uh the Senate Republicans to essentially stand by Steve Lepsock. And I'm kind of like, what an interesting issue this is. You're asking me essentially to go to bat for a Democratic member of the House who's accused of sexual harassment. Not and not just by one person. There were several people that had come forward. Yeah. Um so that was just a a bizarre thing. But I'm sorry to interrupt.
SPEAKER_00So I wonder if I I mean I do wonder if he never made that statement, the retaliatory statement, where you would have been. But even just even just when we were talking about it though, the thing that you kept coming back to and what you talked about in your speech was literally your daughters. And if your daughters were working in that building, which one of them had, right, you know, um, what type of treatment did they deserve? And this is something that I think is of your moral compass, right? It's like kind of what guides you always is your is your daughters. I've seen it come out in multiple occasions. Um, quite frankly, it's a beautiful thing to see, and I think that that centers you away from this misogynistic thing that seems to carry uh right now in a lot of men across across the aisle, which is really, really quite frankly sad. Um, but you did speak to that. And and I think about how powerful that moment was when you went to the floor and you spoke to them, you know, and I think you are speaking to them directly in some parts of your speech. Uh and I and I want us to think about that. Like what kind of what kind of world do we want to raise our daughters in? Um and why should they be treated any differently? Have you been sexually harassed before?
SPEAKER_01I haven't. Um, but uh I I I'm an employment attorney and and so I've I've heard uh lots of horrible fact patterns with respect to what happens in the workplace.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I have, right? And so there's one, there's many main differences between us, but I'm a woman, right? And when I came into the General Assembly as an intern, I worked for the majority office, the House Majority Office, right out of school. And I was sexually harassed by the chief of staff at the time. And I remember very distinctly not thinking I could say or do anything, but also thinking that that's just the way things happened in the workplace. Um and I remember, and I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say her name, Kelly Nordini, walked uh walked me into a room and said, Is has this happened to you? Because we have heard from some of the other interns that this is happening, and we want to hear it from you. And you're safe, you know? And I told her this absolutely did happen. Um, another woman in the office, um, she uh was amazing and she was a staffer, and I think was a little bit um nervous to say that it was happening to her as well. Um but as soon as it started coming out uh and there was multiple allegations, we didn't have to go through any type of hearing or any type of background, nothing. Um, Kelly and the speaker Andrew Romanoff walked that man out of the office that day, walked him out, never to be, never to come back. And that's what they're doing at Graham Plantner right now, which I appreciate. Walk his ass out of the party, walk him out of that seat because someone who treats someone that way and continues to have a pattern of treating people that way should never hold high office or any office in in this country, quite frankly, or in any place. We cannot allow that misogyny to permeate throughout our systems, and every time we know about it and every time there's a credible instance, we need to start walking people out.
SPEAKER_01It it isn't interesting to me, and this still happens, that people are willing to excuse misogyny and horrible behavior um for political reasons. For political reasons. So I, you know, I put a I put a post out on Threads when the whole Platinum thing was exploding, and I think within 24 hours of those allegations being surfaced, I was like, the guy should drop out. Yeah. The kind of replies I got to my post were unbelievable. Yeah. Kind of like, you know, basically, well, you know, the it's sort of same, you know, uh Republicans do it too, and uh, you know, we're gonna help Susan Collins get re-elected. I'm kind of like, it should not matter. It should not matter. So kind of like if if the result of you all not vetting your candidate and putting somebody up that's basically a despicable human being uh and saying we're willing to look past that because we want to win the election is just appalling.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Either you have some core principles regarding the dignity of every person, um, and particularly the dignity of women. Uh and look, I just, you know, we're we're doing a smoker's board today on a lot of issues, but I just want to throw another issue out that that's really on my mind when we talk about, and as a father of three daughters, this is very real for me. Um, there is a very real movement out there in this country to uh having a conversation about should women vote. I know that I have seen that. It is absurd. And you know, there's a Pete Heggseth's pastor in Idaho uh has championed this concept. The fact that he Oh is that who that is? It is, too.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01So so so check him out. Uh by the way, if you can find the video where my good friend Tim Miller from the Bulwark ha has a fun little uh fun little back and forth with the pastor. But you know, under his theory, each household should have a vote, and yeah, the man as the leader of the household is going to be the one to cast the vote. And I, you know, I've heard from you know, heard videos of so many women who were like, yeah, I'm okay with that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well unbelievable. It's unbelievable, and it's this trad wife thing that has started and is really also kind of going through socials and how you how as a as a wife you need to be, and you know, this pushback against independent women and working and all of that stuff, and just stay home and take care of your man. Listen, if that's what you choose to do, that's fine. And if you choose not to vote, don't vote. Um, however, that's not my choice.
SPEAKER_01And don't deprive other women.
SPEAKER_00And don't deprive other women of their right to vote. Um, I think that's the number one way that we'll see more uprising in this country is if something like that were to go into place. I really, quite frankly, don't think that Trump will ever pass his little act because if he does, I think he knows the backlash will be swift and strong. And while they're trying to create a media machine and a communication machine with these, you know, nice looking women who can say that this is what I want and this is a life you should have too, it's not gonna fly. It's not the majority of women, not even close. Um and quite frankly, it will anger a lot of men as well. Um, it's just not okay.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I w I'll I'll leave you with this point, and that is um I think all of this open misogyny that's happening in our country could have a very net positive result, and that is more women are gonna run for office, more women are going to get elected to office, and maybe we can finally break the stranglehold on you know white men in Washington running our country's policies. Wow. Uh so um not that I would ever say that misogyny is a good thing, but there is a silver lining in here, and that is I think women voters are very motivated in 2026. I think they're gonna vote in overwhelming numbers. They're not particularly excited for the most part about supporting Republicans. And if this results in more women stepping up to lead in our country, I'm all for it.
SPEAKER_00Wow, I mean I'm gonna record that and you know what I mean. Take it to the back. We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna clip that for sure. But um I appreciate again you saying that. I appreciate hearing that from you. We do need more women in office. I hope that is the outcome is that more women will run, it will win, and we'll have a woman at the top of the ticket and be president as well. So before we go, um, we had an interesting conversation about Lindsey Graham, and I wanted to give you uh a bit of space to to talk about your thoughts about uh about um the senator.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, um, so you know, with respect to to Lindsey Graham, um I I am very torn when it comes to Lindsey Graham, because the Lindsey Graham that I want to remember and honor was a person who had independence, a person that worked closely with John McCain, who worked closely with Joe Lieberman, who uh and I'm not sure if you've seen the video of of uh uh Lindsey Graham talking about what a good person Joe Biden is. But you know, Lindsey Graham was always a person who I think could find things in common with folks on the other side of the aisle, uh, speak with respect. Um he was very staunchly anti-Russia, he was yeah, and and a staunch ally of of those who were resisting uh Russian oppression, particularly in the Ukraine. So I I have that Lindsey Graham on this side, and then the Lindsey Graham that emerged after President Trump was elected. And clearly Lindsey Dr Lindsey Graham um made a uh he he did the political calculation that he had to fall in line behind Trump, and he really did become a different person. I kind of wonder what would have happened had John McCain not passed away and would he have been able to influence Lindsey Graham and kind of bring him back from the brink. But you know, my my big takeaway of of Lindsey Graham's passing um is what uh the sort of the lesson learned of how far are people willing to go to hold on to political power. Because he must have really struggled with this because I think the authentic Lindsey Graham was the one who worked with John McCane, he worked with Joe Lieberman, who really was uh a centrist and tried to work for for bi bipartisan uh issues. Um that was ultimately not the Lindsey Graham that we saw over the last several years. So I'm I'm I'm very torn and uh I'm sad about what happened to him personally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and it won't be how he's remembered. I think he'll be remembered as somebody um who quite frankly was uh staunchly aligned with with Trump, who hated himself maybe in many ways. And I know there's speculations about um his his private life and how that uh influenced his policy. And so I think, you know, my feed is very probably different than yours when it comes to Lindsay Graham's. I will say that there's not a lot of love lost there. Um but I am not gonna dance on his grave. Um and I'll just leave it at that. And so that's all the time we have today. Um I want to thank you again, my co-host, Cole Wis, my good friend, for having this conversation. And I I think it's really important too that we're sharing how we speak to each other about these issues with folks. Um, and hopefully people can have rational conversations with each other as well without feeling like they have to compromise who they are or their values. And so uh thank you all so much for listening to Politics is Personal with Leslie and Cole. Thank you to everyone behind the scenes who makes this happen. And thank you, of course, to all of our listeners. Uh keep liking, sharing, and commenting. We appreciate your support.
SPEAKER_01And remember, friends, politics is personal, so keep talking.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for listening. Politics Personal is hosted by Leslie Harrod and Cole Wiss. This episode was directed by Julie Jackson and edited by Jamison Johnson, produced by Leslie Harrod, Cole Wiss, Ian Savari, and Julie Jackson, music by JKK. And follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, and any site you get your podcast at politics is personal with Leslie and Cole. Recorded at Denver Community Media, all rights reserved.