EP 14: Max Miller Controversy, Colorado Political Tropes, and Denver DA John Walsh

In this episode of Politics is Personal, Leslie Herod and Cole Wist unpack the latest national political headlines and Colorado state news before hosting a detailed conversation with Denver District Attorney John Walsh.

Key Topics Discussed:

• Congressional Conduct & Accountability: Discussing recent allegations involving U.S. Representative Max Miller, how political parties handle candidate misconduct, and the standard expected of public leaders.
• Statewide Campaign Dynamics: Addressing recent campaign material targeting Phil Weiser and examining the impact of anti-Semitic tropes in political messaging.
• Voter Shifts & Democratic Primaries: Analyzing the factors influencing Black and working-class voters following recent primary results.
• Interview with Denver DA John Walsh:
  • The intersection of mental health, substance use, and criminal justice.
  • The operational impact of digital evidence and body-worn cameras on prosecution.
  • Approaches to tackling youth violence and community prevention programs.
• What’s Bugging Us: Guest contributor Max Haynes weighs in on why voter education and civic participation matter now more than ever.
• Civic Engagement & Personal Reflections: A discussion on youth involvement in politics, term limits, and a personal tribute to the late Monsignor Ken Leone.

Episode Links & Resources:

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• Leave a review and share your thoughts in the comment section!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome back to Politics is Personal with Leslie and Cole. I'm Leslie Harrod.

SPEAKER_04 0:06

And I'm Cole West. It's the day after the Michigan primary. DSA gets another big victory in the Senate primary. And some uh interesting family squabble with Bernie Moreno and Max Miller. Um, some other fun things going on. What's uh what's happening?

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Excited to have John Walsh on today as well, our district attorney, to talk about some crime and punishment in the house. We'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

So it should be a great show. Come on back.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

All right, so how are you?

SPEAKER_04 0:38

I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

It's really smoky again.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

It is, and I will give a little note to my uh to our listeners is that when my voice gets like deep and raspy, I'm not trying to like, you know, do something with it. Like it's just because I have really bad asthma and I've been using my medication a lot.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

I thought it might be maybe your radio voice. Um very sultry.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Very sultry. Well, thank you. Thank you. Um no, I have never been told I have a voice for radio, but here we are doing a podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:03

Or maybe you could do an audiobook.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Let's put it out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Yeah, okay. Uh what's going on? What's in your feed this week?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Well, listen, um, I think the number one story in my feed right now is once again out in Washington, D.C., the dysfunction, but it seems like these white men who are abusers, who are drug users, are getting called out on their stuff, thankfully. Um, but we have this Max Miller controversy where, you know, he is a woman abuser. Come to find out, not only did he abuse his ex-wife, he's also abused a woman when he was in college. Uh, and then another ex-girlfriend as well came forward and said that he was abusive and enraged. And the ex-wife comes out and says that he's also using drugs. And what I find so fascinating, and just like, you know, it's just so frustrating. But he went on, Max Miller went on television and he was asked um if he was going to run again for office and if he or if he was gonna drop out of the race. And you know what he said? First of all, in this interview, he didn't deny the accusations uh in a way that I thought was clear, right? I mean, he's he said, I didn't do that. There, these women are crazy, or it's easy to do.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

So the women are always crazy.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

The women are always crazy. But his main justification was well, you know what? I watched Trump go through something similar to this, and quite frankly, you know, we can make it through. And, you know, I watched what he did, and so I'm gonna stay in the race. Okay. So, like, let's just be clear. The Republicans right now are saying that it is okay to abuse women, right? Um, to not be held accountable for it, and to say very clearly in plain language, well, our leader does it, so leave me alone. You know, I don't want to talk about it anymore. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna keep on going. And I deserve to represent the people. Now, it's really a lot to me because what I've been hearing in the conversations too is that it is not just him, but there is a group of white men in Washington, D.C. in Congress that abuse women, that are, you know, having a ton of affairs, and quite frankly, that are abusing drugs as well. And it's just the name of the game out there right now. And I think that's a huge, huge problem, obviously. But you know, what I wanted to chat with you about, though, was also the father-in-law. I mean, at because he's a Republican as well. Um sitting U.S.

SPEAKER_04 3:20

Senator.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Sitting senator. Right. So his daughter is the one that's been abused. His granddaughter is also face uh is has also been abused, apparently, by this man. And he said, I don't know if he should resign or not. I mean, as a father, what do you think about this?

SPEAKER_04 3:35

Uh I'm appalled by it, but um I I guess on a on a you know, on a just sort of broad political level, why can the Democrat uh why can the Republicans not take out their own trash? Yeah. You know, I mean, Graham Plattiner, um, you know, and there were a lot of question marks about Graham Platiner, but when credible allegations came forward about a sexual assault, um, Graham Platiner was out of the race within a couple of weeks, if not one week. Um but it just seems that Republicans have a tougher issue with this. The way that they seem to deal with crises like this or serious questions about a candidate's character is to close ranks around that candidate and to say, you know, this is not that big of a deal, or this is a family matter, it's private. But by all accounts, uh Max Miller is a trash human being. Awful. He's a bad guy. Um anyone that abuses their spouse should be automatically disqualifying in terms of running for office. Because if you the way I look at it is if you were willing to do that to somebody that you're in a relationship with, the mother of your child, then you'll do it to anybody, frankly, and that you don't take your responsibilities as a public servant seriously. So I'm just tired of Republicans not admitting, and look, I and maybe we hear about a lot all these trash human beings in politics because they're in the public eye. But look, let's face it, every profession, every walk of life, we have people who are, you know, maybe abusers or or abuse drugs or whatever. Um, but I think, you know, it's important that both political parties establish some very bright lines and to say, these are lines we're not gonna cross. And if you have these kinds of tendencies or you have these kinds of problems, they're automatically disqualifying. I hope the parties will start to be clearer about that. But look, Max Miller's not Donald Trump. Donald Trump's gotten away with a lot of stuff. Yep. And if Max Miller really thinks that what he's gonna say is, well, Donald Trump got away with it, so I should too. That's a pretty bad argument for him.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah, it's a terrible argument, but it seems to be working. I mean, I think it's really, you know, what what I've seen is he's doubling down, you know. It doesn't seem like the party is backing away from him, though the dad today seems to have come out and and kind of been more, you know, supportive of his daughter saying things. Took long enough. Yeah, it took long enough. I poor poor daughter, you know, um, to be like, oh, you know, I was living in fear the whole time that she was with him. And apparently, you know, he took the granddaughter's, you know, teddy bear Binky that she sleeps with and wouldn't give it back. And so the the kid couldn't sleep. I mean, it's just kind of evil.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

The father-in-law must have known what was going on. Yeah. So why did it take him until now? Um, and and so for those of you who, you know, for the for our listeners who don't know, he's a sitting U.S. senator from Ohio. He just was sworn into office last year. Why would he not come out and support his daughter and say, look, this is this kind of behavior by a public servant is absolutely disqualifying. And he should step down, not run for re-election, and just be gone.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Right. And and just let another Republican win that seat, you know, someone with some character, right? Someone who the party might be proud of. But quite frankly, it is a sense of this party and winning these seats is more important, right, than these women, right? Than than his his his uh ex-wife, um, than women who might want to vote, you know, they don't get to vote anymore, vote in households. It's it's just the party, quite frankly, of degrading women and not letting women stand on their own, not believing women, not respecting women. And, you know, you brought up something, uh, I think was the last episode where we talked about the uh sexual harassment uh allegations in the state house and how one of the uh conversations with the Republican Party was, well, if we go against him, then we're gonna have to go against all of the Republicans that we know are also doing bad, right? And that is the problem, right? Like we need to eradicate the swamp, if you will, right? And get rid of all of these men who are taking these harmful actions, who are harmful against women, who don't deserve to hold office and definitely aren't representative of what we want our country to be and how we want to be represented.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

So the name of our show is Politics is Personal. So I want you know this goes to the sort of personal core side of politics for me, and that is why do people like this um run for office? Why are they attracted to politics? Power hungry.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Is that what it is? Yeah, I I may I would say so. I would say that Max Miller, even watching him, looks like he's just a power-hungry like knuckle dragger, you know what I mean? Like that's what he seems like to me. And clearly he is. I mean, he he seems to walk around and you know punch his way through things, including unfortunately, um the people that he claims to love. And I think that's a huge problem, right? And so um I think it is this like, I want power. Um, and we see that with Trump, too. I mean, he's not in office because he cares about the people of this country, he's in office because he wants the power.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

So speaking of bad public behavior in politics, Victor Marx is back in uh in the show this week because he's definitely in my feed.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Shout out to our newest follower. He's also in our uh in our following.

SPEAKER_04 8:45

Hey Victor, thanks for following the show. Uh we'd love to have you come on. So uh so uh be in touch. But um there was a uh a racist trope. I don't know if you saw it. I did um that was uh uh put out not by the Marx campaign, but by a Marx supporter, a sitting county commissioner from Montrose County, which is very close to the county where I grew up in Delta County, um that that depicted Phil Weiser with horns. Um and so we all know what's being communicated there. The commissioner um said, gee, I didn't know Phil Weiser was Jewish, um, which is just I'm sorry, that's not a credible statement. And if you combine, if you look at the at the the little AI thing that he put together next to Victor Marx, we have a cross and a pure Phil Weiser is with horns. Um I just you know, can we just say that um the Marx campaign has to come out, has to reject this, has to call it for what it is. It's anti anti-Semitism, it's bigotry. Um I don't know if the can the the Marx campaign is gonna do that, but if they're smart, it will do that.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Yeah, I don't think they will because I think that they probably agree with it. They probably thought it was funny and sent it around, you know, to each other. Um and it is extremely anti-Semitic. I think anyone who knows anything about the history of this country or the or anything about Jewish people knows that that is an anti-Semitic trope. Um, it is really unfortunate because I feel like, you know, Phil, I've never really seen so many attacks against him because he's Jewish as I have recently. Whether it's this trope or whether, you know, they're putting in the spotlight that he needs to kind of rein in the party around Jewish folks and putting that on him, you know, especially with the DSA folks and and and and some of the things that Millot has said or or even quite frankly hasn't said. Um, it's really a shame because Phil has more of a a history of uh policy, you know. He is definitely in line to be the next governor, but he has a record that we can hold accountable, look into, talk about. But instead, it's coming down to an attack against his character and specifically against who he is as a Jewish person, and that quite frankly is just wrong. Um, and I don't I don't know what the shift is in folks thinking that that's okay to be putting out on social media or it's now okay to attack him on this. But uh, you know, I just thought we were a bit better than that, but we're not.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

I I I put out a post today just saying, you know, anti-Semitism and and bigotry are wrong, and and I and I concluded my post by saying this is not a partisan issue, this is a right and wrong issue. Some of the comments I've gotten back from folks are are you saying that anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism? And I know there's there's this wave of saying, and I and I think, you know, I think you can speak out against the policies of the Israeli government without being called an anti-Semite. But and I think, you know, some people have been a little loose with the term anti-Semitism. Right. Because in in my view, if you're criticizing the political policies of the Israeli government, particularly in terms of of what they're doing in Gaza, which I think by all accounts is a genocide, and I'm just gonna say it's a genocide. I don't feel like I'm anti-Semitic to say that, but wh why is why is that issue continuing to be be dragged out? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Well, I think it's the dehumanization of people, right? I mean, I think that it it's become so okay to dehumanize immigrants, to dehumanize Jewish folks, to dehumanize Muslim people, or specifically um folks from Palestine, right? Um black folks as well. I mean, it's just become okay. And so we're seeing these tropes. I mean, we've we've seen the Michelle Obama, Barack Obama racist tropes go on um for years, right? For decades at this point. Um, and so it's nothing, quite frankly, that's new, but it has been um it has been set in stone as something that's okay for our leadership. That's the problem. You know, you don't see Michelle Obama putting out anti-Semitic tropes online, right? Like you don't see that. Right, right? I mean, that is that is not the way that someone who is holding the highest office, who has hold held some of the highest offices in this country, or somebody who is is meant to be a leader should act, period. And we're seeing that as more okay. And we're seeing it more right now also in the attack against Jewish people in particular than I think we've seen in the past. And so it's also become more prominent in mainstream. Uh and it's it's racist, it's anti-Semitic, uh, it's it it's extremely problematic. And I don't see that changing until leadership changes.

SPEAKER_04 13:17

The last thing I'll say about this is um if you've been anywhere in Colorado over the last year hearing about Phil Weiser's campaign, yeah. To say that you you didn't know he was Jewish is just not credible. Right. Sorry, it just isn't. And uh Phil always leads with the story of his of his mom who was in Auschwitz, and or I mean, I'm sorry, his grandmother who was in Auschwitz, and I I believe his mom was born uh in the concentration camp. So, you know, i i it's it's something that Phil is very open about. It's something that he talks about in terms of what formed him and what drives him as a public servant. So I'll just I'll just end with that.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Anyone his last name is Weiser.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Who's putting on a trope saying, you know, with with Phil Weiser with Horns saying, oh gee, I didn't know, and why are you guys so incensed? And you snowflakes, uh yeah, it's just I'm sorry, it's not credible. Right. I do want to, before we get ready to welcome our guest, John Walsh, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Michigan. And it was some coverage that I heard last night on MS Now um of of Simone, and I'm blanking on her last name. Sanders. Simone Sanders, who's one of my favorite um reporters on MS Now, was talking about what the the relationship between the black vote and DSA and what that looks like and and why black voters tend to be supporting DSA. Are they are they all in on DSA? Do you have any any thoughts for me on that?

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Yeah, I think it's interesting. Um, and I know we chatted a little bit about this. I, you know, I don't know, and I can't speak for you know the black community, especially in some of these other states that I'm you know maybe not as active in or involved in. But what I will say is that the black folks have been left behind by the Democratic Party for many election cycles now, if not the entire time. I mean, if we think about it, um, you know, black women have consistently had to have a slogan saying trust and believe black women, you know? And that has been something that we're not seeing with the Democratic Party. We see the Democrats taking for granted the black vote consistently, um, turning their backs on black candidates consistently. But what we see is GSA really holding up candidates of color. Um, we know Melotte Kiros, who ran here and won in Denver, is a black person, a black woman. And so, you know, I find that really interesting. So I think black voters, one, they are the most um reliable democratic base, but have been, you know, kind of had their backs turned on them when it comes to supporting black policies. Um, and so I think that what what we're seeing here is black voters saying we are no longer gonna go with the establishment. We are no longer gonna be an easy vote for you. And now that we have an option that actually seems to care more about, you know, low-income families, seems to care more about our issues, we're gonna go that way until we can see the establishment Democrats actually caring about our vote. And so that's what I think we're seeing happen with the black vote. Um I do not think the black vote is gonna by and large, you know, swing to the Republican Party, but I do see folks thinking that this is another good option.

SPEAKER_04 16:14

Uh, you know, I I it just it's interesting to me that uh, you know, this is a topic that that's being raised. And you know, I think black voters, Latino voters, working class voters are tired of Washington not working for them. Yeah. They're tired of the rigged game, they're tired of money in politics, they're tired of corporate corruption. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

All the things that DSA leaves us on the banner.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

So, you know, I I think you can be for supporting the little guy and being against corruption, being against money and pol you know, big money and politics, being against, you know, uh politicians going to Washington staying for 20 or 30 years and not really getting anything done and just sort of going along to get along without being a socialist. I think you can be for all of those things. So, you know, Republicans, I think, right now are trying to sort of paint with a very broad brush that that anyone that's um that's on this side of of democratic politics is a socialist, or as Donald Trump says, a communist, because he doesn't know the difference. But, you know, look, I I think there's just a lot of dissatisfaction. And what we're gonna see in this fall's election is that voters are pissed. They're tired of politicians speaking out of one side in their mouth and doing another. Um doing nothing, or going to Washington, not voting their values, uh and going there to enrich themselves and not working for the American, uh for the American people. So it's a very angry electorate. Yep. Um, and and the DSA right now, to their credit, seems to be speaking to that anger. Like, and I think you mentioned this a few weeks ago. MAGA was good at speaking to voters' anger, and that that had a lot to do with Donald Trump's rise in politics. DSA seems to be speaking to their anger this year.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Absolutely, absolutely. And once again, we see black people really leading in the conversation and saying, you know what, we're gonna sh we're gonna we're gonna speak with our vote. We're gonna lead with our vote, and that vote was pretty uh it was pretty clear, it seems like, in in Michigan and other places. And so while we might not see black folks a lot in DSA conventions, um, but we are seeing them in leadership and we are seeing our voices being recognized there, I think that matters.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

So we've got a great um sh uh got a great guest coming on with us, our our mutual friend and uh former U.S. attorney in Colorado and current district attorney in Denver. So we'll look forward to welcoming John Walsh coming up next. Welcome back. It's time to welcome our guest, my longtime friend, uh, one of the lawyers in town that I have enormous respect for. Six years as U.S. attorney, and you're in your second year as a district attorney in Denver. But uh John Walsh, welcome to Politics is Personal.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yeah, thanks so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

Well, thank you both. It's great, especially with two folks I have so much respect for. Thank you. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 19:09

So where do we begin?

SPEAKER_04 19:10

Well I'd just like to tell a personal story. Uh, way before John Walsh was in public service, uh, we were a couple lawyers working in big law and working uh together. It's one of the the cool things that the that it exists for lawyers to do uh pro bono work in Denver. It's called the Colorado Lawyers Committee. And what the lawyers committee does is does high-impact pro bono work in a number of areas. But John and I work together on education issues, and one of our big things was the way that we fund public education in Colorado is inequitable. Um in fact, I think our state constitution talks about a thorough and uniform system of education for the state. But we all know that the way we fund public education is not uniform, and that that your outcomes in education are largely determined by your zip code and what your property tax value is. So I I just, you know, um I feel like I really bonded with John through uh really important work that meant a lot to us. We weren't making money doing this, we were doing it on a pro bono basis. But I I grown to I I think John and I co-chaired the education task force and just developed enormous respect respect for John as a result of that. So just whenever I want to share.

SPEAKER_05 20:29

Likewise, cool. And uh Yeah, and I actually remember in those days one of the issues that I worked on that is still with us today on the education committee was we were trying to help rural districts who had a bunch of non-English speakers who suddenly appeared and they just they didn't have the tax base to have the teachers and the bilingual programs that they needed to have, and we're trying to find a way to make that happen. So and these issues continue to this day. And uh because it is so dependent on the tax base of the counties that make up the school districts.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah, I didn't know that background about you all. Um we met actually through your sister, kind of really. Um Nancy Wall, shout out, uh, just a phenomenal human. Absolutely. Love her to death.

SPEAKER_05 21:14

Uh my secret weapon in the campaign when I was running, it's without a doubt. Younger or older sister. Uh the she is much, much, much younger than me.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

I understand that. Yes. Uh she's great though. But I remember actually I started to know of you because you went against my good friend Stephanie Villaforte for the position.

SPEAKER_05 21:39

Um Well, I I was never actually against Stephanie. In fact, I tried to help her out during that process. Okay. Um and then when she ultimately decided to step away from the being considered for U.S. attorney, um then that's when I ultimately got nominated.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

It was it was wild. I remember, oh gosh, I remember this was the first time. Because she used me as a reference that I was actually vetted by the feds. And they came in in their suits and put me in a conference room and started asking me all kinds of questions about her and her background and how she lived her life. And did she have purses that were too expensive and things? I was shocked. But it was really fascinating. So you must have gone through a very similar process.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

I sometimes get phone calls. In fact, just last week, I got a phone call from a federal investigator looking to do a national security background check on someone. And it's like, has has fill in the blank ever advocated the overthrow of the United States government? It's like, let me think about that. Yeah, not to me.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

And they don't like the jokes. They do not look the jokes.

SPEAKER_05 22:43

No, absolutely not. You gotta be serious on those things.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Well, we're so glad you're on. And I gotta tell you, um, I have gotten to know you so much more through our work together on Caring for Denver. You are a board member for the Caring for Denver Foundation and have really appreciated your perspective on where mental health stands in Denver, but also how it intertwines with the criminal justice system.

SPEAKER_05 23:06

Absolutely. And and just a shout out to you for doing so much to create the Caring for Denver Foundation and that stream of money that is being used to address the really serious mental health needs that we are not meeting adequately in Denver or in Colorado for that matter.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Well let's start there. Where do you see mental health and mental health uh challenges or lack of mental health care interplaying with the criminal justice system right now in Denver? Uh, and kind of what an everyday Denverite might observe on the streets or in our jails or in our system, um, and and kind of the the way that mental health care overlaps with that.

SPEAKER_05 23:43

Well, I mean you can't ignore when you look at the way the criminal justice system works and the people who are can coming into the system, the degree to which mental health and mental illness plays a role. It's just unquestionably the case. Um oftentimes it's lower-level offenses, right? I mean, people who have are not able to function in the same way in a job for any length of time, end up on the street, have other problems, or maybe acting out in some way. So we see folks coming in over and over again, and putting them in jail isn't really a solution to the problem, right? And yet oftentimes, because our mental health services, yeah, well, let's call it a superstructure, um, isn't really fully up to the task, it the default place for folks ends up being the criminal justice system. Now, when I say that, I want to be really careful to say we have some incredible people and organizations who are working on mental health around the city of Denver and in Colorado. But the funding and the capacity of those groups is just not able to handle uh some of these issues. And then you've got people who've got really serious mental uh uh health issues who are going really not well treated, and they get into more and more trouble, and it their health suffers and there are collateral consequences to the community. So it's a very serious issue, and it's one that um again caring for Denver does an enormous it's an enormous step in the right direction. Um but as you know better than anyone, Leslie, we could have five times the amount of funding there, and we'd only really start to get a handle on on the issue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

So let me pick up on that a little bit. One of the issues that Leslie and I bonded on, bond uh uh bonded with respect to, and that was when we served in the State House together, was criminal justice reform. And it it it it came about as a result of our skepticism about the Department of Corrections budget, sure, this ballooning uh budget every year from the Department of Corrections, even within years with declining numbers of inmates in our system. So, as a prosecutor in a very large judicial district in in Colorado, a very active judicial district where you're sending people as a result of convictions into the State Department of Corrections, share with us your perspective as a district attorney. And I'll preface this by saying that we're not correcting people by putting people in cages and not giving them uh access to health care, to I mean to mental health care, to to uh to treatment for for substance abuse and the various things that you find in the Department of Corrections. Are we failing our our uh our folks in the Department of Corrections? Um, and could we be doing a better job? And just hearing your perspective on that would be really helpful.

SPEAKER_05 26:29

Sure. Well, let me connect that to the mental health issue quickly. Now, this past legislative session, there was a very significant piece of legislation that went through addressing the competency issue in the criminal court. So for the you know, listeners understanding, you know, you can be there's the you know, not guilty by reason of insanity, that's not what I when I say competency, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about people who have been found to be incapable of standing trial because they're not able to understand the nature of the proceedings or they're not able to assist their counsel in a meaningful way. And that means, you know, the case really can't proceed if s if someone is found to be permanently unrestorable to competency. Last year a reform went through that is attempting to address in the most serious crimes, so it's violent crimes, the situation where we don't want to just dismiss the case and push that person out on the street and you know, homicides, things like that are the uh charges. And at the same time, how are we going to consistent with due process address those issues? And now there's a process in place for civil commitment, a special process when there are underlying charges of uh violent crime, basically, um oversimplifying. That's an enormous step in the right direction because those people are in a more are are who have been violent are in a more custodial setting, but for treatment. And but that's only this much of the issue. It's a it's a s it's a high profile issue for obvious reasons, but it's not the overall situation. We don't do a good job of addressing the people who may be in jail and found incompetent but being held on a pretty low-level charge, right? And there are a lot of those folks. Uh we've to address those issues, we need to have a much better system of we have a competency court here in Denver, and it's working hard to try to address those issues. But again, the limitations on services out there in the community really make it hard to be as effective as I think we'd all like to be. Yeah. So it's it's a and when you send someone to the Department of Correction, you know, there are some mental health services provided, but they're pr they're not they're not robust for people who've got more serious mental health issues. And so just to come back to where you started, Cole, and I know you feel this way as well, Leslie, we could be so doing so much more. And um, you know, uh my mom, and Nancy's mom, uh was uh a in her career was a psychiatric nurse, and she actually worked at what was then Denver General in the psychiatric emergency department. That we're still seeing so much of that decades later, uh, without as much change as you would think that by today, 2026, we would have seen change.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

Yeah, and so I think for me as a per as a progressive, you know, I believe that there should be a lot more alternatives to incarceration than what we're seeing today. Uh especially with my sister who had uh was in and out of prison for 30 years, you know, had um mental health issues and turned to substance misuse and ended up being in and out of jail for for low-level offenses. Right. Um and really, if she had care in community, I think that many of those things would never have happened, right? Um and we could have broken that cycle a lot earlier. She's doing well now, um and she's working actually in recovery homes out of state. And so, you know, I think that we need to have more of those services. When we're talking about the high-level crimes, murder and all of that, well, that's what people see, right? But there's ways to break that cycle before we even get there. Yeah. And that's by providing more services in community. Uh, and so when you're thinking about, you know, uh, you know, folks who have low-level substance misuse charges or folks that have might have trespassing charges and things like that. How are you dealing with that? And then what programs are you seeing that are actually successful uh in moving people and breaking that cycle and moving people into a place of stability and ways that they could, you know, be more productive in community and not sitting in jail?

SPEAKER_05 30:36

Well, I mean, that's a huge issue, right? Because so much of, you know, there's a subset of the homeless community that is really afflicted with, you know, mental health issues and also substance use issues, and and that's something that we just haven't gotten a handle on. And you see people cycling in and out, either of jail or various kinds of housing options, or maybe just being on the street, right?

SPEAKER_06 31:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:01

Um and you know, the danger when you have someone who may say they're addicted to fentanyl, which is still a huge problem for us, if they get arrested and they spend a short period of time in jail, they come back out, they start using it again, but now they've lost their tolerance, and that's where you see a lot of overdose deaths, right? So that uh um one of the things that the county court here, and the mayor has kind of led this, uh the county court has just created a new uh recovery court, a treatment court, that's aimed at exactly the sorts of offenses that you're describing, those low-level drug offenses. Not deal big dealers or things of that sort. We're talking about folks who are using maybe, you know, to be fair, that maybe they're, you know, they're selling a little to finance their own habit or they're exchanging drugs, bartering, or whatever. But we're talking low low. Um and that's just getting going. It's like almost the old drug court kind of issue. Those have been successful, but they can be really frustrating for the criminal justice system, right? Because even with the the right judge, and I think we've been lucky in that respect for the the recovery court, um, even with the right judge, very few people are able to kick some of these drugs the first time around. So there's people come back, they relapse over and over again, and finding a way to get them out of that is something that requires patience. Um but if we just say lock everybody up, we're not solving the problem. And and we need to find a way better way to do that. In terms of programs, there's a whole web uh of programs that are out here. In Denver, we're really lucky. We probably have the most available of any part of the state. Um, we also have probably the biggest need for those programs. Uh having said that, I don't think anyone has found sort of the magic golden ticket for this is the program that works every time. And we're people are trying a lot of different things. I do think that the notion that at the end of the day, if you have someone who is repeat offending, repeat offending, and read off repeat offending because of substance use, you know, there is a there is a role, there is a role based on what I have read and understand the science to be, to have a mandated program while a person is incarcerated. I know that's been controversial, but I think I think the comparison there is not you have someone who's eager to be treated, yeah, they have a better chance of succeeding than someone who has been mandated, but to me that's not the comparison. The comparison is compared to someone who's just out there not receiving any treatment, and that's the unfortunately a big part of the population.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:43

People who have mandated treatment have a much higher uh recovery rate than people who are not receiving treatment.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Trevor Burrus, where is the mandatory treatment though? Is that in jail?

SPEAKER_05 33:51

Well, it's the part of what the this recovery court ultimately contemplates, the possibility of is that kind of a treatment or a more uh let's put it this way, a more uh constrained uh treatment environment.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

So I'd so I'd like to talk. So the name of the show is Politics is Personal. I'd like to sort of talk about the personal side of the DA's office. Um and I can say this safely, as a lawyer of 37 years, managing lawyers is not easy. Um there are a lot of opinionated folks that's after career. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 34:24

Exactly. And lawyers as managers are not easy either.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

So yeah, strike one, strike two, right? Um but you know, but we also, it's very important that we attract, that we recruit, that we retain quality lawyers for these jobs. So you know, it help us to kind of look behind the curtain in terms of the day-to-day management of the DA's office. What's that like? Uh what are your challenges? And and uh obviously we have a lot of great talented people working as prosecutors, not just in Denver, but yeah, across the state of Colorado. You know, how how do you manage those folks and and what what makes a successful prosecutor?

SPEAKER_05 35:03

Well, first off, let me just start where you were ending off, and that is the the team at the Denver DR DA's office is incredible. I mean, particularly folks who have been there a little while have tried so many cases. They are the most experienced trial lawyers. You know, the public defenders has have people like that too. But if you want to talk about people who've tried a lot of cases, this is what we're talking about, people who really know what they're doing. The and I will tell you that the the management has less to do with the individual human beings. I mean, we hire some pretty young attorneys, pretty brand new attorneys to come in to help, and they're still luring the ropes. So there's that kind of training component and mentoring component. But we have incredible people coming in the door, even if they're inexperienced to begin with. The biggest challenges are related to the nature of the work and the volume of the work. So we try close to four or have, not try, but we have something like 14,000 cases a year. Wow. And about 115, 120, we're down from because of budget considerations. So when you think about that, it's an enormous caseload to be managing. As a practical matter, the the most serious cases, they get all sorts of attention. They have to, a homicide case, things of that sort. But we also have a lot of cases where they're coming at the prosecutors fast, they're coming and they're trying to manage those cases. Same is true for the public defenders. And so there are surprises along the way. And trying to make sure that we're helping people navigate through that, use the best uh systems to make that happen, uh, that's in some ways the biggest challenge, right? And I'll also say that one thing that uh that is dramatically different today than it was when I left the U.S. Attorney's Office in 2016 is the role of technology. Uh the volume of digital evidence that we've got today, because of police wearing body-worn cameras, people having ring cameras on their doors, cell phone downloads, because you've got like a whole house full of paper documentation in this little device and video, that has transformed everything. And managing that is a huge part of the challenge right now. So to give you a little bit of a sense, the in 2019, this was just after you know body worn cameras started to be used systematically. Yeah. Um, mandated. And as it should as it should be, because it's been it's it's been an enormous step in the right direction. The there was about 10,000 hours of uh video footage for the U.S. for the DA's office's cases. Last year we had 65,000 hours of video. Wow. Um body worn camera, halo camera, ring camera, people recording with their phones. Um there, you know, so much of the of of our casework is that kind of evidence these days. So managing that is really a challenge. It's a gigantic, because think about it, it comes out to over 500 hours of video uh per prosecutor. That's not humanly possible to review. We need to figure out, and we are working to figure out, okay, how do we more effectively identify where the most important evidence is so that we can review it and make sure we're making the right.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

Seems like AI can help out with that.

SPEAKER_05 38:34

It could, although you need to be careful about AI, obviously. Yeah, you need a human. Yeah, you need a human at the end of the day, and we're certainly exploring AI solutions, but uh but we're still at the front. I mean, it's it's hard to believe that AI has really only hit the radar screen in the last two and a half years.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:50

But there's definitely uh a role for AI to help, um, but we're proceeding carefully. Yep. The other aspect of that is um it's not just the prosecution side, the defense side has to deal with all of this. And we need to be sure we're getting all that evidence over to the defense and the systems that prov provide for that exchange of information need to be updated, and that's underway right now as well. But when I look at this to the technology side, um, it dominates much of our management, to go back to your question. But I I have to tell you, when you set back, I've sort of focused there on the challenges of it. The benefits of it are huge as well. It's gigantically important. And you know, to take an example, so I actually, every time there's an officer involved shooting in Denver, I personally respond to that because it's such an important thing for the DA's office to independently assess what is going on and make a decision. We only decide on criminal charges or not. The number of times I've gone out where the body worn camera video was the way we could decide is incredible. And when I think back ten years, not a hundred years ago, but ten years ago, that footage would not have been available, and we would have been relying on witnesses alone, and there would have been a lot more confusion and uncertainty about what had actually happened. And the and it's not just a question of us being able to look at it, the public ultimately gets to see it. And that's so important to the confidence of the public in the system.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Well, I want to stay on that for a minute because you know body worn cameras was a part of the police accountability bill, and especially the fact that we said you can't alter the images and put that on the media. You know, you can't edit it and then say, well, this is what happened, and you know, and then the most important parts are left out, um, which does, I think, add to that data component, um, obviously, that that you've mentioned. But more recently in Colorado, we saw an Arapaho County the Arapaho County DA, I believe, uh come forward, and she did uh indict a uh Aurora police officer for murdering uh a man in the community right in front of his child. Um, and what we saw was not only body-worn camera, but community-based cameras as well, really giving us a full picture of what happened on scene, and then family members stepping up and saying there needs to be accountability for this officer. Initial response from Aurora PD was, yeah, you know, uh he was he was under threat, you know. I think the the cameras show that that might be uh there might be a different story to that. And of course, we'll have a trial to see, you know, what should happen there. But I know you can't speak to any specific cases, especially active ones, but talk about a fact pattern that you all have to go through when it comes to determining whether an officer acted outside of the scope of his badge, was an officer truly, you know, in in jeopardy in community, and when an officer should have taken a different step or action to prevent the pot the loss of life or serious bodily injury to a community member.

SPEAKER_05 41:54

Well, as as you say, I can't comment on any specific case, and I'm I'm not gonna comment on that case of the case.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

And I'm sorry, specifically the DA out there is Mimi Penn. And I want to give a shout out to her for stepping up because I think as someone who is a DA as and as a prosecutor, to then come out against law enforcement is a really tough thing to do. And so shout out to her for really stepping up and saying this needs to go to um to a trial.

SPEAKER_05 42:21

So the the process here under state law and under just sort of practice is that uh not only do I respond to these events, but it's not just investigated by the Denver Police Department. So Colorado State Patrol gets involved, the the Colorado Bureau of Investigation gets involved, and they're actively involved in the questioning of witnesses and and all of the rest. And ultimately, it's our independent decision as to whether or not charges should be filed. I will tell you the the m and again, I'm not gonna comment on cases. All of our every time I make a decision on this, if charges aren't brought, I write a letter and I detail the evidence and the and the reasoning behind it. Applying the applicable law for use of force by police officers and explaining. The most common scenario is uh the you know, an officer who's acting in defense of either himself or others. That's and and I'll give you one example I can talk about this a little bit because it's now uh we chose not to um uh to bring charges and issued a letter a month or so ago. Relatively straightforward, but to illustrate. Um the uh individual, there was a call uh attempted carjacking, one o'clock in the morning in an apartment complex. Police respond the person had left the car and was up a stairwell. Officers come, challenge the guy, he's coming down the stairs, turns, and fires. The video shows this clearly. Fires first at the officers. Nobody gets hit, which is you know, it's miraculous, no one gets hit. Um either The officers or anyone else in the uh in the complex, and the officers return fire. So that's a from a practical point of view, it's a simpler case, right? The they are responding to someone who started shooting at them and and have taken those steps. But to do that, we don't that isn't something where we just say, okay, done. It's we review those as much evidence as we can, every video we can collect. There are interviews of everyone who is involved, and um, you know, whether or not they were the officer firing or whatnot, and then based on that collective picture, we make a decision under the law and issue um and and issue a letter. You know, the scenarios under which there could be charges brought as an officer, there's not a threat to the officer. There's not a threat to or the or the threat has subsided, or the officer is, you know, uh is uh you know not legitimately warning or exercising the taking the appropriate steps to deal with the situation. Um But to go back to that case, if there had been no video that was so dramatic, then the officers would say he shot at us first, but there would have been no one else who could have confirmed that. But with the video, we're able to say, well, that is exactly what happened. And uh so that again to go back to the technology point, so often it makes a difference. No matter what the decision is, it can be the determining factor because you really can see much better what actually happened. And I will tell you, my sense from the is that police officers have come to greatly appreciate the the fact that the body worn camera is going because I think they they are so often, you know, shout out to officers who deal with very difficult circumstances. You know, in, for example, to go back to this this one case, they have definitive proof that they were responding to someone who was shooting at them first.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Yeah. And Denver had body-worn cameras before the law was.

SPEAKER_05 46:02

But it hadn't been rolled out completely, I don't believe. And uh so um so it's these are complicated decisions. And you know, there would be times, and I saw that Amy Patton uh indicated that she had pulled in independent use of force experts. Um and in the right case, I imagine we would do the same thing to assist us because the independence of the decision making makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

And I and I will just say, and I I I I think this needs to be said, that it is a challenging time to be in law enforcement today.

SPEAKER_05 46:38

It is.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Um we're down a number of officers in Denver, we're down officers across the state. Uh we continue to to suffer from lack of lack of personnel. And we put people under extraordinarily challenging circumstances to be out there protecting our communities and keeping us safe. And the vast majority of people that work in law enforcement are good men and women who who serve with distinction and who serve with character, and that's firmly my belief. And and I would assume you know you agree with that, John. But I just I I wanted to say that. Can I the last thing I wanted, we're we're just about at time, but I'm gonna ask you a very lawyer geek question. You've been a civil litigator, you've worked in big law, you've been a U.S. attorney, you've been a prosecutor. Um what's what's harder, being a civil litigator, having to deal with cranky other lawyers, or being a prosecutor? What's what's harder? Uh I'm sure they're very different, right?

SPEAKER_05 47:32

They're different in some ways and not different in other ways. But I I'll uh I'll put that true. But I I'll I'll mention something that you and I briefly talked about before this got going, and that the sense of service to the community in the DA's office is so immediate because you're dealing with victims directly, you're dealing with the family members of victims, you're dealing with witnesses, you're dealing with the real nitty-gritty of a big city and the issues that we're facing, including things like the mental health issues we were talking about before. And in so many of these cases, the sort of raw emotion of it is palpable. You feel it. Um one of the things that that it's and that's enormously uh rewarding to have that sense. It can be a burnout job, right? And when you mention police officers or other law enforcement, it is very hard. The the stress and the and the trauma that they're kind of dealing with every day is is something that we all need to respect, um, that they're able to handle those things. But we also need to be sure that we are providing them and other DAs and for that matter public defenders with the kind of support they need because it's so easy to get burned out, um, even as validating and incredibly um rewarding as this work is. Because you're seeing people at their very best and at their very worst, sometimes in the same couple of minutes, right? And you're watching these videos, you're going to the scene, seeing what's what has happened in a case, and I have just enormous respect for everyone involved in handling that. And I'll say one last thing, and I'm probably going over, but um It's okay because I have another big question for you. Oh, good. We'll come back to that. But I will say one of the things that I've learned in dealing in watching videos and things of this sort is there's a lot of heroism going on out there that you don't hear about. And it's individual citizens, it's police officers, it's a lot of people who are trying to do the right thing. You know, there was a shooting at a Mavericks uh uh convenience store way down on Parker Road about a year ago now, a little less than a year ago, where uh a man had taken the two clerks hostage. And the police officers came, he fired a shot at them, he had locked the place up and turned the lights off at night. They did not hesitate. They busted down a glass door and they rushed in there, and he was shooting at them, and one of one of the officers got shot. And you, if you watch those videos, you you come away with a sense of, well, these are folks, many of them pretty young, um, pretty new to the force. They followed their duty under circumstances where they might not have gone home that night. So and that's not to minimize, to be clear, to your point, Leslie, that there are circumstances where an officer might not, you know, comply with the law. But I've seen so many s examples where officers have done things and saved lives, as in that case, um uh under very difficult circumstances.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Yeah, and my dad was a law enforcement officer as well, and he's the best man that I know. Uh and what I will say is that unfortunately the actions of a few really taint um the work of the many, and uh we, you know, so I will say that there is a lot more stories than what we hear, but we also don't want to excuse, of course, the bad actions because that really is a cancer um that really affects the entire community. And I gotta ask a hard question because you know, we also don't agree on everything. And one of the things that that I have talked to you about was the unfortunate news that I saw a couple weeks ago, where your office has chosen to um to try a 12-year-old as an adult. And um, I know we can't again speak to those specific cases, but I will tell you that my belief is that a 12-year-old should never be seen as an adult. A young boy as the age of 12 being tried as an adult seems like a system failure, a community failure, not a not a situation in which we need to incarcerate somebody for life. But tell me what I'm missing.

SPEAKER_05 51:37

Well, again, I cannot talk about that case. And and in fact, it's you know crucially important that I not comment on that for professional reasons and also for fairness reasons. So, but let me talk to you a little bit about the process, right? So uh there was a reform, I'm gonna not get the exact number of years down correct, Laheed, where it used to be that DAs could simply decide we are trying this juvenile as an adult. That's no longer the case. It hasn't been for years now. In Colorado, there needs to be juval judicial oversight. So if someone is 16 or over, but still you know 16 to 18, basically, um the they uh we can file directly in regular adult court. But the defense has the opportunity to file a reverse transfer hearing to take it back to juvenile. And it's a it's a big deal, evidence and things of that sort. If someone is under 16, we can't file directly. The case goes to juvenile court and we can file a motion for transfer. And the juvenile judge makes a determination ultimately based on a big hearing again, of all the circumstances involving the kid and and all and the rest, the and the nature of the crime and all the rest. Um and makes a decision whether it will be transferred or not. The decision to do either of those things is one of the most important decisions and most consequential decisions that I make as a district attorney. And so every one of those decisions comes to me. And in the time that I have been DA the since the beginning of of 2025, really the only cases where we've done that have been homicide and attempted homicide cases. And the and you know, we look at each case individually, um and we make those decisions based on the facts and the evidence. And uh but then in the end, a judge is gonna decide a judge is gonna decide, and I actually think that's absolutely crucial because it is a discipline on the way we think about cases, because we know a judge is gonna look at it, and it's also the appropriate thing to have an independent decision on on the facts of the case. Um I again I can't comment on the particular case, but uh I I will just say there is an entire process that I I'll be watching this process as well because I I think it's um, you know, just uh again, it's it's a testament to our society right now.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Um have we seen an increase in youth violence?

SPEAKER_05 54:06

We have seen a number of significant uh uh youth firearm violence cases in the last year. And it's something that we're definitely definitely aiming at trying to address. I have to tell you, you may have seen that former mayor Wellington Webb published an op-ed about you know what was done back in the so-called summer of violence in 1993. And I think his point was, yeah, you gotta enforce the law, but you also need to provide uh opportunities for young people. You need to make sure that kids in the summertime are, you know, have opportunities for jobs, that there are after-school programs, that there are even late night programs, particularly on weekends, the old midnight basketball idea, all of which I strongly, strongly agree with. And we need to find a way to make sure we're doing that to support the community as a whole.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Well, I think that's all the time that we have for today. But before we go, uh we're gonna try something new here. Okay, there we go. That's dangerous. Thank you for speaking here. But um we'll go ahead and look at at the camera over there. Yeah, and give us uh what's your hot take?

SPEAKER_05 55:13

Uh you know, my hot take would be what I had already focused on, which is the best way to fight crime is to prevent it from happening in the first place. And that means looking to the root causes of crime, making sure that we have programs and opportunities available to people so they don't end up in that position, and that we also treat folks who have mental illness or substance use issues so that they're less likely to end up getting involved in criminal activity.

SPEAKER_02 55:41

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here. Sound off in the comments. Let us know what you think about this episode and of course about the hot take. And thank you, thank you, thank you for being for being here, for having the conversation and for you know believing that we need to get more care to people in our communities. We really appreciate you, so thank you.

SPEAKER_05 55:59

Well, I'm right back at you, Leslie, and you as well, Cole. Great to see you, John.

SPEAKER_04 56:02

Thanks so much for joining us. There's a lot bugging us uh like usual this week, so come on back. Welcome back. We do have a video for what's bugging us this week. What's what what's bugging your friend?

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Hi everybody, my name is Max, and I'm gonna real quickly touch on two things that are bugging me in today's political society. Number one, it is participation, number two, it is education. And they go hand in hand. You can't participate effectively if you don't understand and really grasp the issues at hand, or you can't understand those issues if you aren't willing to get out and participate, join the causes, you know, talk to your leaders, make sure you understand and are able to communicate the issues that are at hand to those who then make decisions that could affect your everyday life. People are so busy with their jobs and their families and their hobbies, their time, and that's understandable. But want to then complain about decisions that are made from folks who have, whether it's legislative or business or community power or influence, it it could have been a different story if you decided that your voice also matters too. And I'll tell you right now, it does. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Well, I mean, so uh Max is a is a friend of mine. Uh shout out, Max. Uh, thank you for listening and thanks for sending in that video. Um, what I will say is that obviously it's the age age-old adage, like don't complain if you don't vote, right? Like, get out there and be um be and participate in civil society, right? But it goes beyond the vote. And I think that's what he's also saying. Educate yourself, understand what issues are important, and then go out and hold your elected officials accountable. I mean, it's pretty simple, but as someone who, you know, Max is active in campaigns, he's a he's a younger guy. Um, and I think he just gets frustrated with his peers who are not active because we've seen elections be swayed by 10, 20, 30, 300 votes. And if people who complained would just go out and vote, they'd make a huge impact.

SPEAKER_04 58:08

So shout out to Max. Max is singing from my grandmother's playbook. So um, and I we probably have talked about this, but my grandmother, who I grew up next door to, um, was very active in politics. That's one of the reasons why I got interested in politics when I was a, you know, just a little kid, and we would watch gavel to gavel conventions. Yeah, I was a nerd even when I was a kid. Um, but my grandmother had two rules. She said, be informed and have an opinion.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:37

And that is exactly right. It is our duty as citizens to read the news, to listen to the news. Listen to the news and read it from a variety of sources, be critical thinkers. Yeah. Think about, you know, w how these policies impact your life, formulate an opinion, and then act on it. Become engaged in our community, talk with your neighbors, not go debate them or yell at them, but engage and talk and and challenge yourself. This is what um, this is what our obligation is as a citizen. And I just really appreciate the perspective that um we want everyone to vote. We want everyone to participate, but be informed, yeah. Um, and and get there in an education, in an educated and thoughtful way.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

Yeah, and I think that's part of why we're doing this show, right? Because I actually understand, especially our younger folks, but people in general who are like, you know what, I don't want to be involved in the mess. I don't want to hear people arguing, I don't want to just watch these debates or just, you know, be further convinced that our entire system is corrupt and rigged, you know. I don't want my my time to matter. I'd rather spend it with my friends and my family and my loved ones and not argue about this stuff. But you don't have to argue. That's right. You just have to have informed conversations. And hopefully we're providing an opportunity for folks to listen to two folks who might not be on the same side of everything, but have civil conversation. That's what we need to have. And I think that when we talk about education and participation, alongside of that comes that civil conversation. Um, and so, you know, I applaud Max and others who are really getting out there. Um, we know that his generation is changing the face of the Democratic Party. We also see them taking leadership in the Republican Party. When you get active, you can make change. Now, I know you were a nerd. Um, and shout out to the grandma.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:27

Thanks for saying that in past things and a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

And so I've seen, you know, you can actually get out there as a young person or as a person in general and make change when you just have those conversations.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:41

So, what do you think political parties can do to help young people become engaged in policy and politics? You know, other than to say, you know, go out and work on campaigns. I think those are important things to do, but there's a lot that the parties can do to educate voters. Um, and ultimately, I think parties want to attract people to join up and sign their name and join the party. But what do you think parties can do?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

I mean, part of it is actually making sure that once the young folks come, that they're not pushed away when they're there. I mean, I've seen that in the Democratic Party, you know, they say we want young people, they go out and recruit heavily, and then when young young folks show up to the conventions or the assemblies, they're either ignored, um, they are silenced by the rules, um, and just don't feel welcomed in the party. And so I think parties really need to embrace young folks, not just have a separate wing for young voters or young people in the party, but really integrate them into all levels of leadership. And then we could see some of that change, but also really understand where young people are. Additionally, I mean, we have like for my house district, house district eight meetings were on Saturday mornings at 10 o'clock. I don't know how many young folks want to get up at 10 o'clock and go to a house district meeting to have a conversation with their elected officials, right? And so why not go meet people where they are? It's one of the reasons why I founded New Arama Colorado. It's about getting young, the young vote out. It's I'm I'm also aged out new era at this point, which is fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:09

What's the age of?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

I think we kind of set it at 30 and then we change it to 35, and now we can't change it anymore. But you know, we would go to the colleges, campuses, we would have, um, we would have conversations in bars, you know, we would have campaigns that were run in a different way, and we found that to be extremely effective in turning out the youth vote and also registering more youth to vote. Um, and so I think that that is what we need to do as a whole. And again, we gotta start actually putting our money where our mouth is and support young candidates uh to actually cross the finish line and represent us in elected office.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

Everybody in my house, I'm gonna include all of my daughters, are tired of you know, 70, 80 year olds running our policies.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:50

It's just, you know, enough. Okay. At some point, and I'm saying this as a 63-year-old white guy, um, at some point, step aside. Uh give somebody else an opportunity to lead in our country. Let's get new values, let's get new ideas, um, let's let's find different ways to try to solve problems. But unfortunately, both parties tend to protect incumbents, protect the old guard. And as we talked earlier in today's segment, the voters see through it, they're tired of it, and they want change.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

Agreed, agreed. And quite frankly, let's throw term limits in there. You know, there should be term limits, in my opinion, in the highest offices in this country, uh, including in Congress. Um, there should be age limits as well. And I don't mean to sound ageist, but I think if we even if we set it at 80, you know, that would be more reflective of where the party is, especially the Democratic Party and where we want to go. Um, and I think we should see that happening.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:45

And and both parties have been guilty of this. Yeah, totally. Right, right. Totally. So there's plenty of old Republicans, plenty of old Democrats. Um, but yeah, it's it's not an ageist issue. It's let's, you know, that this is something we need to refresh our politics and to and to make things uh uh be better.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

Exactly. And our judges right now in Colorado, what is the age there? I think it's 70.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

Um I don't know what the the maximum age, but at a certain point you can't even apply to be uh a state judge. And I think that's right. You know, not that you're not capable of functioning at a high level intellectually, um, but I think it's better to have you know younger folks uh in there doing these important jobs. I agree. So um can I just uh end today's show on a on a personal note? I um uh uh almost 20 years ago, I was confirmed in the Catholic Church um at Risen Christ Catholic Parish. And our pastor, uh for the for the non-Catholics who are in our audience, the pastor is the head priest for a particular parish. Um our pastor was a gentleman by the name of Ken Leone, and Monsignor Leone um passed away last week. He retired from uh his uh active service um in a active parish service and spent about the last 11 years working at the seminary. Um and I can tell you um his death has been uh a moving thing for me because I don't know that I've encountered um a priest, uh a spiritual leader with the love and the compassion and the sheer joy that this had this man had for serving other people and and he showed that uh throughout his life. So um I just wanted to give a a shout out to uh Monsignor Leone and for those of us who we know him as Father Ken, but you know, he led the Cabrini parish, which is right next to Columbine High School, right after the Columbine shooting, um, and was really uh an important person in helping that community he heal and throughout his uh throughout his life, uh service to the Catholic Church and service to our community. Um thank you to Father Ken for for being a uh a light for me, uh for being an important person in my spiritual journey. Uh and I just wanted to share that with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:02

Well, I'm sorry for your loss. It seems like he was a great man. He was a great man. I look forward to hearing more stories about his impact on you and the community.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:09

Uh one final thing I'll say about Father Ken, and and that is uh a lot of times for Easter, he would write a love letter to Jesus. And so he would that his homily would be his love letter to Jesus. Um they did do a documentary about his life. It's called Kenny, which I have not seen, but I look forward to seeing it. Um but you know, love and compassion and service were his milestones. So if we could only all fall, follow that example.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

Yeah. Wow, what a man. Thanks for letting me share that. Of course, of course. Well, that's all the time we have for today. Uh, I want to thank all of our listeners um for being engaged, for listening, for commenting, liking, and sharing. Uh, please do that more because the more that we have more of you, uh the more we can continue. And so thank you all so much for uh for listening and for being a part. And also, of course, thank you to our crew. Uh, thank you, Cole. It was a great episode, and we look forward to seeing you next time.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:03

Yeah, and on a personal note, Leslie, um, being here with you every week is always a highlight of my week. So thank you for being there for me, my friend. And thanks for the conversation. Always, always. And remember, friends, politics is personal, so keep talking.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:16

Thank you so much for listening. Politics is personal, is hosted by Leslie Harrod and Cole Whist. This episode was directed and edited by Julie Jackson with special guests, Denver District Attorney John Walsh, produced by Leslie Harrod, Cole Wist, Ian Silveri, and Julie Jackson. Special thanks to Jamison Johnson. And for our What's Bugging You segment contributor, Max Haynes. Music by JKK. And follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, and any side you get your podcast at politics personal with Leslie and Cole. Recorded at Denver Community Media, all rights reserved.