EP 121: From Workplace Trauma to Reinvention — Identity, Power & Navigating Career Pivots with Natalie Holder

In this episode of Thriving in Intersectionality, Dr. Lola Adeyemo sits down with Natalie Holder—employment lawyer, executive coach, and founder of QUEST Employment Initiatives—to explore how workplace experiences, identity, and power dynamics shape the way we navigate and lead in our careers.

Natalie shares her journey as a first-generation professional, a Caribbean African American woman, and a legal expert who has worked across employment law, HR compliance, and diversity leadership. Through her story, we unpack how early career experiences—including moments of exclusion, misalignment, and workplace trauma—can influence not just career decisions, but how individuals see themselves within systems.

This conversation moves beyond surface-level career advice and into the deeper reality of what many professionals experience but don’t always name—how workplace environments can leave lasting impacts, and what it takes to move from survival to intentional reinvention.

Together, we explore how individuals can navigate these moments with more clarity, build support systems that extend beyond traditional mentorship, and make career decisions that align with both identity and long-term impact.

🎧 What You’ll Hear in This Episode

• How intersectionality shapes leadership, adaptability, and workplace navigation
• Natalie’s journey into employment law and how she found her niche in workplace advocacy
• The difference between workplace stress and workplace trauma—and why it matters
• How early career experiences can shape confidence, self-perception, and decision-making
• Why leaving a role doesn’t always break the pattern—and what to address first
• The concept of a “Personal Board of Directors” and how to build one
• Key indicators of broken workplace cultures that professionals should recognize early
• Practical ways to navigate misalignment, career pivots, and workplace challenges
• How to approach career decisions with intention—whether staying, leaving, or pivoting

👤 About the Guest

Natalie Holder is an employment lawyer and executive coach who helps professionals navigate workplace trauma and transition toward more aligned and impactful careers. She is the founder of QUEST Employment Initiatives, where she combines legal expertise, HR insight, and leadership coaching to support both individuals and organizations.

With experience spanning employment law, Chief Diversity Officer roles, and global HR compliance, Natalie brings a unique perspective on how workplace systems function—and how individuals can navigate them more effectively.

🌍 Resources Mentioned

🔗 Strategic Pivot Assessment (Free Tool):
A quick 5-question assessment designed to help professionals evaluate their readiness for a career pivot and gain clarity on next steps.  

🎙️ About the Podcast

Thriving in Intersectionality explores how identity, lived experience, and leadership intersect in today’s workplace. Through conversations and reflections,host Dr. Lola Adeyemo highlights the insights, challenges, and leadership lessons that help professionals not just navigate—but thrive.

Each episode invites leaders to define intersectionality in their own words and reflect on how their layered identities shape how they lead, grow, and make decisions.

⭐ If This Episode Resonated

• Share it with a colleague or leader
• Leave a review to help others discover the podcast
• Explore more conversations on leadership, identity, and belonging

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello and welcome to the Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast. A podcast that explores the real experiences of professionals navigating the workplace with layered, leathed identities. I'm your host, Dr. Lola Ateemo, the CEO of EQI Mindset and founder of the nonprofit Immigrants Incorporate, Inc. I'm also an author, speaker, and a workplace inclusion strategist. I work with organizations to build communities of belonging through strategy, storytelling, and systems change. This podcast amplifies the voices of professionals from intersectional backgrounds, immigrants, ethnic minorities, first-gen professionals, veterans, working parents, individuals with disabilities, and so many more. Through solo reflections and guest conversations, we'll uncover the eating challenges, celebrate the wins, and offer insights to help you thrive, not just survive in the corporate world. Because in today's global workforce, belonging isn't just a bonus, it's the catalyst for real growth and impact. Let's dive in. Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Thriving and Intersectionality Podcast. A space where we have conversations with multi-layered individuals doing amazing things and walk back through their journey to understand some of the layers that have impacted their leadership path. So before I bring my guest for today, Natalie, in, I'm going to do a little bit of definition of intersectionality because I always like to acknowledge that people might be coming into this podcast from this episode and maybe coming in contact with this word for the very first time. Intersectionality is a framework that recognizes our multiple aspects of identity, such as race, gender, ethnicity, even immigration status and class, among so many others. How all of these layers overlap and interact, creating very unique experiences of privilege or discrimination that cannot be understood by examining just a single factor in isolation. So this is a framework that helps us to explore leadership not just as skills and strategy, but as something that is deeply shaped by our identities, our experiences, and the context with which we show up. So today, my guest, Natalie, is uh someone that I recently connected with and I was very impressed by it. And I can already tell we're gonna have more collaborations coming up. But uh Natalie Olda is an employment lawyer who coaches professionals through workplace trauma to reinventions. Whether listeners have concerns about job security or they're fatigued by being passed over, ignored, and underestimated at work, Natalie helps to reveal the unseen path to a more fulfilling and impactful future. I love that that was very brief because we're going to dive into a lot more of how she got here in a minute. Hi, Natalie. Hello, Dr. Lola. Thank you so much for uh being here today. Thank you for your time. How is everything going? Um, right there on the East Coast.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Dr. Lola, thank you so much for having me as a guest. Uh, you know, uh, I will say it is very tumultuous. March in the northeast is incredibly unpredictable. Yesterday we had tornado warnings. About three days ago, we had 80-degree weather. So just like the workplace, it's up and down.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

I know. I I had somebody that was stuck at the airport um yesterday, and I was like, it was like I was hearing something from a foreign land because I'm here in San Diego and we are like, is this summer? Why is it so hot? Like it's only March. Why, you know, it's so hot at 8 a.m. in the morning already. So, anyway, the interesting wonders of nature. Um, nice to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

All right, I'm going to jump to the first part of my question um around intersectionality. So, when you think about that word, what aspects of your leadership, what aspect of your own identity, your background has been most relevant to shaping your own leadership journey?

SPEAKER_00 4:44

That's a great question. And also, let me tell you, I just love the name of your show. When I found it on Spotify, I thought, I need to be on this show. I really, you know, um admire the whole idea of delving into the idea that we are not one-dimensional. We're not a monolith. We are people with multiple identities that make up the perspectives, the views, and the experiences that we bring into various environments. So, what are my intersectionalities? Um, I'm a Caribbean African American woman. And, you know, I grew up in the Northeast, grew up in New York, went to law school in New Orleans, and spent a number of years in Connecticut. And so being someone who moved around quite a bit in her adulthood, that is something that has taught me the ability to learn how to code switch, learn how to adjust, learn how to be flexible, uh, learn how to be adapting and not expecting everything to be the same way in different places. And so, you know, that also I must say undergirds how I look at different environments. Being flexible, how do you, you know, under how do you try to connect with people? People you've never met, never met before. What in that toolbox of, or even I'd say my suitcase. You know, I'm I was I'll tell you this. So uh in my early 20s, I was married to someone who was in the Navy. And so we were constantly moving. I want to say we moved nine times in nine years. Oh wow. So, yes, Dr. Lola. And so it's like, what can I take out of that suitcase when I'm meeting with other people to really unpack and connect with that individual? Because at the end of the day, we all just want some level of connection and to feel respected.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Right, right. Okay, and I I think people underscore the the value of being able to adapt. You know, we say it sometimes like it's a bad thing. It's a huge strength when you are able to read the room, observe the context, and then apply skills, you know, um, in a powerful way within organizations, which is kind of the space where I sit. And I always um encourage and inspire people, like it's you know, it's a privilege to be who you are, it's a privilege to carry everything you carry. Now, how do you channel all of that to do the work that you do to show up in the spaces that you show up? All right. So, what other layers, what other um identity categories can you highlight that you see as really showing up for you in your leadership?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Ah, so it's also professional background. So I was the black sheep of my family, and that I did not go into medicine. You know, everybody went into medicine. Um, however, it didn't come as a surprise to me that even though I pursued law, I went into an area that is a social determinant of health. I fell in love with employment law. And so, you know, that's another element of intersectionality. Looking at an area in where one's employment makes so many choices for them before they even make the choices. So the job that you have determines where you can live, determines what kind of clothes you wear, determines what kind of you know car you drive, determines what kind of health care you can access and afford. And so it's that ability to be in that space that you know helps me to also navigate. Once again, looking at you know how people are existing or thriving in different environments.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah, I love it. Okay, now I gotta go to the to your leadership journey because now I want to hear all about how you landed in law with a family of medical interests. So, can you walk us through a little bit about your career journey? How did you get to where you are right now? And we'll sort of end with where you are right now. I'd like to dive into that, but can you walk us through some of your choices and maybe how you navigated that whole process?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Absolutely. So I am first generation in my family to attend college in this country. And so, even though my parents were educated, they were not educated in the United States of America, which makes a huge difference. Because when I had classmates that were taking Kaplan to prepare for the SATs, or they even knew the whole schedule of when you are supposed to sit for your PSATs and SATs. You know, here my parents are asking about O levels. And I'm thinking it's a very different system. I had to really, you know, sort through the FAFSA by myself. I had to sort through uh, you know, applying for scholarships. And, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to age myself, but quite honestly, I was doing this at a time before you had, you know, PCs that were abundant. I was doing this in, you know, my high school secretary's uh office on a typewriter with the whiteout.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

I don't know if you, I don't know if you know about that, but I am just I I'm just trying to connect what you're describing to how young you look because thank you.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

But you know, it was, I'll admit, I I always had that interest in being an advocate for others. Like that really was something that you know appealed to me. Yes, in healthy were advocating in a different way. But I was always more of like, you know, someone who wanted to understand how policies impact people. And I'll admit, when I went to law school, I had no idea I wanted to be an employment lawyer. But it was something that, you know, when I landed my first job with the New York City Commission of Human Rights, which looks at discrimination and harassment and retaliation in three different places. You look at it in employment, housing, and public accommodations. I believe in the divine, and I must say, like every case that came to me was an employment law case my first year. And so after that, I became the go-to person when it came to do you, you know, how do we get this case settled? How do we make sure that we have a really good case put together if someone has been terminated, if someone has been retaliated against in the workplace, if someone has been denied a reasonable accommodation? That's really, you know, where I really found my footing when it came to law. And um, I I didn't stay in law for my entire career, uh, and that's something we'll also jump into, but it's at least where I landed at first.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Okay, okay. And where did you land?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

So, you know, I think that as uh, you know, as a first-generation American, the pressure is on you, right? Like all eyes are on you. You've got the little cousins looking up, you've got the family back home who they're all rooting for you. But at the same time, they don't understand the dynamics of what you're going through, right? Like they don't understand that you're not working a nine to five job. So my mom was a registered nurse, and I could set my clock to the time that I knew she was going to be home. I knew that she would be home the like two minutes after the six o'clock evening news started, every evening. You know, as an employment lawyer, I wasn't coming home, you know, with any sort of regularity around a certain time of the day. And I certainly wasn't, you know, getting home at five o'clock in the evening. And so you believe that you have to um explain a lot, you have to ask for grace a lot from your family. Um, but there's also a lot that you're not sharing with them because you don't believe that they'd even understand what you're talking about. And so um, you know, in my uh in my earlier part of my career when I was um at the city commission, I then moved into an employment law firm. So that was like guaranteed I was only going to be, you know, practicing uh employment law. And it was a great opportunity. However, as we're having this conversation around like DEI hires, I must admit, in retrospect, I think I was their DEI hire. I didn't go to the fancy schools that all of my colleagues went to. I mean, I was in a firm where everyone went to an Ivy League, um, everyone wrote for like law review. I didn't. And so I think that my passion for you know employment law and you're asking where am I now? My interest in you know helping people sort through the workplace trauma that they've encountered really goes back to being that person who was hired, who was really not qualified and was not the right fit for the organization. And also brought a different flavor to the organization because I had a different pedigree. And so it was the first time in my life that I'd encountered uh, you know, I'd encountered somewhat of a resistance to the characteristics that I brought to an organization. Um and so I remember I was working for a partner who felt that I didn't know how to write. And, you know, I'm glad to say that a few D a few years later, the American Bar Association disagreed with him because they published my second book. But, you know, being in that moment, you know, I was really for the very first time confronted with the big F, failure, not meeting expectations. And, you know, that really crushed my spirit, it crushed my soul. Uh, you know, people call moments of not meeting expectations, sometimes being like stressful, or when you know things crumble for you in the workplace, it's stressful. I really dig into the word trauma with no hesitation. Because I think we can all remember that first instance where something didn't quite go right in our careers, that boss who didn't treat you fairly, that person who you know uh might have sidelined you, that person who may have bullied you.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

That's not stressful because stressful is just you know a stressor and then it's resolved and you move on. Trauma lives in the body. And so, Dr. Lola, to answer your question, my trauma led me to really just be more expansive with the way I thought about my career. You know, until then I was really locked up thinking, okay, you do some government service, you go to a firm. My thought was, okay, stay at the firm and become a partner. I didn't stay in a partnership. You know, I left and for the very first time in my life, I didn't really have a plan, but I had a dream. And my dream was to use employment laws to educate people about their rights and responsibilities. And that is what landed me in a place where I was able to connect with someone who was doing some great work, where they were delivering concentric reorder training to Fox News. And he needed a partner, and I was a willing partner because this was an opportunity to right wrongs in an organization. Now, this was, you know, once again, we were not kept on. We were not a part of like what happened at Bombshell. You know, that was not, you know, um, that was not the legacy of our work. You know, in fact, when we went to Fox News and said, hey, we've noticed some things, we'd like to actually help you resolve them, they're like, no, thank you. The concentric reorder is completed. Your time is done. So we we were very proud of the work that we did and luckily did not get caught up in that scandal. Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

So um, thank you so much for sharing that. And actually, I'm glad I'm glad we we got to talk through how you got to doing what you're doing because I want to dive into what you're doing. For those that are listening now, so a lot of uh people listening are people that are working within organizations, and I'm a consultant for organizations around employee groups and development, and so um I think this ties in nicely with some of the things I was focused on. This is apart from the systems, you know. I love to work on with leaders on the systems change that needs to happen, right? But we all know, I mean, some of it in some organizations is never going to happen because they're good with the way everything is, and and so this this next couple of weeks shifting conversation to the people that work within these systems, and I think that ties in nicely to what you are doing. Um, and so I would love to draw some insight from you, advice for anybody listening who is you know multi-layered, has been the only in a lot of rooms, has experienced discrimination, racism, or whatever it is, you are traumatized by a system where you are still working, right? Or you worked for years. Um, and so maybe that's where we were meant to land for this conversation because I would love to tap into your insights around that. What can people do for those that are listening, whether they are in place of leadership or just for themselves, right? Being traumatized by a workplace experience that maybe you are not privileged to walk away right now and you and you're still there. Um, what what what advice and insights do you have for people dealing with that?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

And I think that's an important word that you use, privilege, because not all of us have the capability to just walk away. Right. I fortunately had a spouse who was able to support me at the time. And once again, I got really lucky in where almost immediately, you know, someone snapped me up into a project that really, you know, um, I'd say created the foundation for all the work I'm doing today, you know, in the area of you know, educating employees and employers about their rights and responsibilities in the workplace, and then also, you know, doing some coaching with professionals, helping them to understand how do you make sure that you're not stewing in this story, in this narrative about your performance, your self-worth, and your self-esteem that somebody else might have assigned to you. And so, and I'll admit my coaching also goes the other way as well, in where I coach managers as to how not to create the trauma that you know, you know, remove that, especially for managers. I mean, for managers, I mean mid-level managers, absolutely. I mean, you've all you've often heard that people say that people don't leave jobs, they leave bad managers. I've never heard of a person who said, that company treated me badly. They will often say that individual treated me badly in the company. They'll and they'll never forget that person's name. You know, the term is made up of uh, you know, the event, the experience, and the effect. The event is all right, so what actually happened? The experience is for some people, it might not have been that, you know, that serious for them. For other people, it might have been something that they had to develop coping mechanisms for. And then there is the effect. It's all right, so how does this continue to linger for this individual? And so, you know, my work is really based on making sure that when people are interested in leaving, because a lot of times, Dr. Lola, what people will do is that they'll say, you know, I've just experienced this disrespectful moment. I've just been passed over for a promotion, I've just been, you know, not invited to a meeting that I should have been invited to. I've just been talked over in a meeting for the hundredth time and it's not happening anymore. My idea was just stolen. They will take that experience and they will say, okay, I'm leaving, and they'll find the next job and they'll move on. But the problem is a lot of times is that they repeat patterns because they never dealt with the actual event and how they experienced it. And they, you know, it's interesting. Sometimes when I talk to people and I mention that I do work on workplace trauma, they bristle at first and they say, trauma, you know, uh, trauma is something I think about with an ER. Well, the textbook definition of trauma is it's an emotional or physical experience of something that was bad. And that's just a very like basic definition of it. But it doesn't have to be something physical, it can oftentimes be something emotional. And you know, workplace hurts. They definitely sting because once again, your workplace determines what you can do, where you can live, where you socialize, who you socialize with, and all of these other, you know, social determinants of health that we talked about earlier. So, you know, um, I'm all about you know breaking the pattern, understanding, you know, how did you respond to that first instance when you were told or that you did encounter something that was offensive to you? You know, look, my research focuses on like the top 10 indicators. Of a broken workplace culture. And so within that research, you know, when you think about the top 10 indicators, one of the biggest indicators is the lack of informal mentoring. There's a really great stat out there that says that, you know, white men, like 70% of white men have a mentor in the workplace. That number is significantly lower for women and especially women of color.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

I've never heard that stat before, but that sounds about right, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I was like, wow, 70%. So similar to you, in my older, in one of my former lives, when I um was the chief diversity officer for a law enforcement agency and also a federal research center, you know, I looked into mentoring programs because once again, my research indicated that this was oftentimes a space in where individuals will feel that workplace trauma not being mentored by someone, not being championed by someone, not being sponsored by someone. So, what is something that someone can do? I'm a big believer in putting together your personal board of directors. Your personal board of directors are people who you trust and people who you believe will advise you to greatness. And I believe that they should have that there should be four seats on your personal board of directors that align with the four parts of your workplace life. Number one, you've got the CEO, someone who is a seasoned professional. This is the person who has led an organization at like the highest levels. Because this is the person who helps you to translate business talk, right? This is the person who gets you to get out of the emotional, but instead to translate that into this is how it impacts the business. So instead of saying, it's unfair I didn't get promoted, this is the person who helps you to instead say, I can be a valuable member of this team by way of sitting in X, Y, and Z market. I would love to be able to support this initiative this way. Then you've got, you know, your person who's the contrarian. This is the person who sometimes will push back, but the pushback is good because they're identifying your blind spots. There's nothing worse than being in an organization and not knowing what you don't know. So this is the person who's able to actually help you identify areas of your own self-awareness that might not be available to you. Are you someone who comes off as you know, standoffish? Are you someone who comes off as arrogant? Are you someone who comes off as not being a team player? This is your contrarian on your team, on your board of directors. Then you have your insider. This is the person who understands your market. This is the person who understands the trends and can help you understand what may be happening in your business. For instance, are there mergers, acquisitions, are there, you know, market shrinkages that you may not be aware of that this person can identify for you.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Okay, okay. Can you go through that again? I think you said three. Did you say the fourth one?

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Oh, my bad. Um, you know, and so you know, your fourth one, that is the person who is, you know, able to help you. So, you know, I mentioned your CEO, I mentioned that you've got the contrarian, you've got your who didn't I mean? Um, you've got your contrarian, you've got your, you know, your market insider, and then you've got your employment lawyer slash HR person. Did you just forget your category? I will admit I am really big on how making sure that you have an employment lawyer or an HR person on your speed dial. Why? Because we could write the movie on workplace trauma. We've seen it from both ends of the from the spectrum. And this is the person who will save you from sending that 2 a.m. email that was poorly worded when you were upset. So when you think about this whole cast of characters, are you gonna meet with them all at the same time? No. But these are the people who you should have available to you when you are in workplace moments that do feel, once again, traumatic to you. And it's important to build this board of directors before you even need them. Because there's a saying that by the time if you haven't built your board of directors, by the time you need them, it's already too late.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yeah, yeah, I love it. And I'm like, my my wills are turning because I'm literally going to go sit down and do this exercise with myself too. Like, because I have people already like I'm placing in that role, and these are relationships, as you said, that I've built over time. But I I love the the HR um employment person uh because I was thinking of a friend that I was recently talking to who just switched roles. Um, I I mean I joke that uh husband was probably the HR person for her because you know what would happen? She would come, she was getting all these messages, and there was stuff going on at work, and she really was traumatized. And it was a husband that was don't respond, let me read it, and then save it. Save it so she was saving, she had a whole folder of all these messages, and and so, and instead of replying, it made sure that save it, sleep on it, right? And make sure your response is you know professional, that you get all your facts lined up and everything. And of course, when things came to a head and it was performance review season, this manager that has put her through so much all year long, gave her the worst review of her career. And she wouldn't have it, and you know, she pushed back to kind of say, Well, based on what? Right, tell me why I got that review. This is the worst review I've ever had at this company. I've been here for more than 10 years. I have these, I have these. You didn't even jump one level down, you jumped like two levels down, based on what, and so it was anyway, it ended up working to her favor because it was looked into. HR came into the picture, she had all the documents to review. Um, she didn't leave the company, but she got a different role in the company, and the case um was examined. But I love that because now I'm like thinking, you know, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're um a corporate employee, these are roles that you should have that you can, you know, some people put a lot of um, I guess, expectations on their manager. You expect your manager to be all of those things for you.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

I mean, oh my goodness, I would highly encourage you to expand your be, you know, beyond your manager. Because if you notice, many times people have a mentor. If you notice, I didn't say you should have a board of director. I think of it the same way a corporation does, right? So Amazon, Google, Apple, all of these companies have a board of directors. Why to protect shareholder interests. If you don't have a board for your own self-interest, for your own interests, who's protecting them? Who's protecting your interests if you don't have a team of people who you can tap into? And believe you me, your friend's husband is not the only family member who has been on a board member. Oftentimes it's the people in our households who might serve as board members. I've run into so many young professionals. Like I was recently doing um, you know, this session on how to build your board of directors, you know, for an organization that just went through an acquisition. And he said, My mom is my contrarian. Another person said that her husband, you know, is the CEO because he ran a major company at one time. And so it's it's important to take you know stock of who we have in our lives because sometimes we're not tapping into them the right ways.

unknown 29:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

And that's why I really love those words because you're also helping us to understand. This is not about I need a mentor or expecting a single mentor to fulfill all four roles in your life. Sometimes one person cannot do these things. So I really love that you broke it down into four, and they are like easy to understand, easy to think about, easy to assign somebody into that. So um, thank you so much for sharing that. All right, uh, before we wrap up, because I knew this was going to happen and the time was gonna fly away. Um, for those that are um that have a background similar to yours or maybe experience similar things, but they are also thinking about to grow their career. Any final words of advice for them in these current current workplace strategy? You know, um, I was hearing the metrics about there being a lot more black women starting businesses over the last few years, which I'm not surprised, but I I think that the message was really more about why a lot of these black women are not starting because I really want to run a business. It's more of I was tired, I was exhausted, and and so that career decision sometimes is it forced? Is it what they would have loved to do? I don't know. So I think that sometimes our career decisions are taken out of our hands. Um, but I wanted to ask from your perspective, right? I mean, you you you've been in different industries, you're kind of like in the middle of people navigating their careers. What are one or two things that you would advise for people right now that are maybe at that edge of making a decision about should I stay, should I move, or if I'm staying, what do I do to advance my career?

SPEAKER_00 31:43

I believe that it's always going to be personal, right? No one can tell you to stay, no one can tell you to leave. This has to be something that you feel in your spirit. However, I do believe that it is important to take stock of what you're leaving for, right? As I mentioned, I've seen people who, and it's also a question of how are you leaving, right? So I've seen people who were frustrated because they got a new manager and they just didn't feel as though you know they and their new manager were aligned. Uh, there's a new, you know, CEO of the organization, and they just, you know, are not our butting heads. And I've seen these people just resign. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, did you not realize what leverage you had? And where you might have been able to go to your senior senior leader and have that conversation, say, you know, look, I respect what you're doing in the organization. Uh, I understand that I came in under a very different model or mission for this organization. And, you know, I'd like to discuss what it would mean to exit. Because sometimes you're also an annoyance to that person, and they will gladly pay to see you leave, right? So I'm I'm always a big believer in really just taking a moment first. And as you said earlier, just reading the room and understanding, you know, what you can ask for and what you might be able to negotiate. As you mentioned, um, I think the number is now, you know, 600,000 black women have been departed from the workplace. Many uh laid off, many fired, many downsized. And it's you know, it definitely is something that weighs on many of us when we look at the uh rate of unemployment for uh for black women in particular in these past in this past year. And so when you think about these people who have left, whether it was voluntarily or involuntarily, I think it's very important to surround yourself with people who are able to provide you with resources. And this is, you know, once again, not anything that is new, but it's so important to make sure that you do have a community that you can lean into. I must admit, I have a few communities that I lean into, you know, for understanding, for information, for resources. You know, it's always good to be able to, you know, add a few more people to your board of directors when life changes. Your board of directors is not going to be static. When you're working the nine to five and the W-2 role, your board of directors might look very different than when you pursue entrepreneurship. Absolutely. And so it's also making sure that you are doing a very good analysis of who do you currently have in your corner to be able to assist you with the changes that are happening in your life.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah, absolutely. Find make sure you are your community is still aligned, make sure your board is still aligned, do a self-check. I love that. Thank you so much. I mean, we can't all have a Natalie, like actually have you on our own personal director, but I know you're putting a lot of stuff out there that people would love to get plugged into and maybe benefit from. Where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

So you can find me at Quest Employment Initiatives, that's the name of my firm. And I'm at you know, questei.org. I also have a YouTube channel. As you mentioned, you know, for anyone who is a newer entrepreneur or new business person, I realize that there are all these employment traps that people might fall into because they don't realize they might be misclassifying a contractor as an employee or an employee as a contractor. They might be engaging in wage stuff to not even realize it. They might not know how to respond to a charge from the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. And so I created a YouTube channel, a YouTube channel called Workplace Wisdom, in where people can, you know, look at a number of videos in where I do talk about, you know, workplace culture issues as well as some legal issues. Once again, I'm not your employment lawyer. Um I mean, we can always change that if you, you know, retain me. However, you know, I provide educational information so that people can at least do some more research and maybe hire an attorney in their area to make sure that they're not falling into employment law traps.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Thank you. I wanted to make sure you dropped the where to connect with you, where to get more of these gems that you're dropping, and we don't have time for. Um, and then before we wrap up, my final question: if you were to share a meal, a food, a snack, whatever that is, with your co-workers, what would you pick and why?

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Dr. Lola, this one is so predictable for me. Anyone who knows me knows that that meal would be oxtails. I love oxtails. Oh my goodness. And the reason why I choose oxtails is that many other cultures prepare oxtails. I'll admit there was only one culture that actually looked at the oxtail as like trash. So I went to um I went to my ex-fiance's home one time, and they live on a farm, and I looked in their um their freezer and I saw this big bag of oxtail. And I said, Oh my gosh, who's gonna make this? And they said, make it? This is going to go out in the trash on Monday. I said, Are you kidding? This is good prime meat. And so that became a conversation with, you know, uh my fiance sister, my ex-fiance sister, and we actually cooked oxtail one year for um for uh New Year's. And it, you know, and to me, oxtail, because it's so universal, many cultures cook it. It's always a way of understanding how might you be doing it differently? What spices are you using? What spices do I use? And it's a way of finding commonality and really digging into our own humanities.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

I love it, and I love how it ties neatly to what you said too about understanding people and nuances and context. Well, thank you so much, Natalie, for being here with me today. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Thank you for what you're putting out there, and for everyone listening, wherever you're listening, I'm going to be putting those links and a little more about Natalie and our firm in the show notes. So make sure you follow or check out our uh materials, our YouTube channel, especially, because I'm going to be checking it out. And then uh please rate, review, share this podcast wherever you get your episode. And if you want to come on and you have a unique take on the multiple layers that make you who you are, I would love to have you looking forward to your feedback on this episode. Thank you so much, Natalie.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Thank you, Dr. Lil. And Dr. Lowell, one other resource I would share is the pivot assessment. You asked for people who are trying to like figure out what they can do. Oh, yeah. I have a five question, five question assessment. That's it. You're in and out in like two minutes. But it provides you with the you know, the the questions that oftentimes we're not thinking about as we are planning to move. And it rates you, it tells you, look, if you are an 80% or if you're at a 20%. But if you take it, you will get my playbook on what do you need to do to prepare for a pivot. If you choose to do it.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

I love it. Okay, that would also be included. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think that's very important. I think a lot of people are at that crossroads and any help and guidance to get to make the decision or to at least know how prepared you are. Um, which is is the biggest thing at this point. It's not if, is when. Are you ready? So thank you so much, Natalie, for sharing that. Watch out for all the resources and details in the notes and uh look forward to seeing you all on the next episode. Thank you for joining Thriving in Intersectionality. Thank you for being part of today's conversation on thriving in intersectionality. If you're an HR or DEI leader and you need employee resource group or business resource group resources, let's connect and LinkedIn and help organizations build inclusive cultures through inclusive workplace communities, strategy, and storytelling. Immigrants and first-gen professionals, join our free community at www.immigrantsincorporate.org for career support, networking, and resources in community with peers who understand your journey. Tag our podcast page on LinkedIn or connect with me directly to continue the conversation. Please don't forget to rate and review to help others discover these discussions. Keep thriving in your intersections. Your story matters. I'm Dr. Lola Adeemo, and this has been Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast.