EP 134: Beyond What We See — Identity, Psychological Safety & the Power of Being Heard

In this episode of Thriving in Intersectionality, Dr. Lola Adeyemo sits down with integrative physician, leadership advisor, and founder of The Mind Re-Mapping Company, Dr. Maiysha Clairborne, for a thoughtful conversation about identity, psychological safety, trauma-informed communication, and what it means to truly create environments where people feel seen, heard, respected, and valued.

The conversation begins with an important reminder:

Intersectionality includes many identities we don't immediately see.

From neurodiversity and trauma experiences to generation, parenthood, education, and professional journeys, our lived experiences shape the way we communicate, lead, and move through the world.

Drawing from more than two decades of experience in medicine, coaching, neuroscience, and leadership development, Dr. Maiysha shares how understanding the brain, behavior, and our communication filters can help individuals and organizations build trust, repair relationships, and create psychologically safe workplaces.

Together, Dr. Lola and Dr. Maiysha explore how our stories shape us, why emotional intelligence is an essential leadership skill, and how community and vulnerability can become powerful tools for personal and organizational transformation.

This conversation isn't only about communication.

It's about understanding the invisible experiences people bring into every room—and what becomes possible when people feel safe enough to be fully human.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

•  The visible and invisible layers of intersectionality 
•  Neurodiversity, trauma, and identity 
•  How our lived experiences shape communication and leadership 
•  Why psychological safety matters for individuals and organizations 
•  The connection between emotional intelligence and trust 
•  Understanding communication through the lens of the brain 
•  Why emotions are data—not distractions 
•  The importance of vulnerability and modeling humanity as a leader 
•  Building communities of belonging in the workplace 
•  How to lean into your differences as superpowers 

About the Guest

Dr. Maiysha Clairborne, MD, is an Integrative Physician, Consultant, Coach, Trainer, and Founder of The Mind Re-Mapping Company.

Specializing in psychological safety and trauma-informed communication, she helps organizations create environments where employees feel seen, heard, respected, and valued.

Drawing on expertise in medicine, neuroscience, coaching, and communication, Dr. Maiysha helps leaders and teams understand how stress, trauma, and unconscious patterns influence relationships, trust, and workplace culture.

She is the creator of the R.E.M.A.P.™ Framework, author of The Wellness Blueprint, co-author of Conscious Anti-Racism, TEDx speaker, and host of the Behind Beliefs, Behaviors & The Brain Podcast.

Learn more about her work:

🌐 https://mindremappingacademy.com 

Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drmaiysha/

Reflection Question

What invisible parts of your identity have most shaped the way you communicate, lead, and connect with others?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hello and welcome to the Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast. A podcast that explores the real experiences of professionals navigating the workplace with layered lead identities. I'm your host, Dr. Lola Ateemo, the CEO of EQI Mindset and founder of the nonprofit Immigrants Incorporate Inc. I'm also an author, speaker, and a workplace inclusion strategist. I work with organizations to build communities of belonging through strategy, storytelling, and systems change. This podcast amplifies the voices of professionals from intersectional backgrounds, immigrants, ethnic minorities, first-gen professionals, veterans, working parents, individuals with disabilities, and so many more. Through solo reflections and guest conversations, we'll uncover the eating challenges, celebrate the wins, and offer insights to help you thrive, not just survive in the corporate world. Because in today's global workforce, belonging isn't just a bonus, it's the catalyst for real growth and impact. Let's dive in. Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast. My guest today is Dr. Maisha Clayban, and I am excited to dive into all of the things she brings into this conversation. Again, this is Thriving in Intersectionality, and the goal of this space is to share some of these people that are leading through multiple layers. And a lot of times we come into their world through their work. And I love to be able to take us back a couple of steps to how they got to where they are and some of the why behind why they do the work they do. So I love it. A lot of my guests, I am not familiar with them. I have just done some stalking. So I'm also excited to like dive into this conversation with Dr. Maisha. But um, before I go into that, I'd like to share a little bit about the word intersectionality. If you're not familiar with this, I came in through this ward, through the work of Dr. Um Dr. Kimberly Crenshaw, and she's done a lot of work around the Black women experience through our social science research. And so I came into this ward through our work. And so if you get a chance to check out, she's still very much doing the work around intersectionality. If you get a chance to take a look, start on YouTube, start on um start on the uh website. Uh, she's done some amazing work. A couple of other leaders have um explored intersections of different things like culture and gender, you know, different uh pieces. I come in from a lens of um immigrant identity, myself and gender, and I have guests that you know will share a little bit about different things, but um here is a definition I like to lead with though. Um intersectionality is a framework that recognizes how multiple aspects of identity, such as race, gender, profession, context, leaped experience, how all of these things uniquely overlap and interact for each person, creating uh experiences that might be privileged, or it might also be barriers at the way we work and lead. And and so elude the the work, the word by by overgeneralizing it, but to give us a lens through which we understand the work that each person does. And so, of course, um a lot of the people I have conversations have got into that leadership stage, and so our conversations will be shaped to speak to individuals, but to also speak to corporate leaders who are responsible for making decisions about other people, and so that is a lot of talking on my side. I'm going to shift to my guest for today a little bit about Dr. Maesha. Dr. Maesha Clevan MD is an integrated physician, consultant, coach, trainer. She's also the founder of the Mind Remapping Company. She specializes in psychological safety and trauma-informed communication, and she helps organizations create environments where employees feel seen, heard, respected, and valued. She's a graduate of Ember University and Mohaw School of Medicine. Dr. Claybon is also a sought-after speaker and has presented on multiple platforms, including TEDx. She's the author of the Wellness Blueprint and co-author of Conscious Anti-Racism. She's also the host of the Behind Beliefs, Behaviors, and the Brain podcast. So, as I said, she is doing a lot of things. But she's been there overnight, and that's what we're gonna dive into today. Hi, Dr. Meisha, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

I am doing so well, Dr. Lola. Thank you so much for having me. I love this conversation around intersectionality and everything that you've shared up to this point.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Thank you. I appreciate it. All right, let's get to know a little bit, a little bit about you beyond the bio. When you think about the word intersectionality, what aspects of your identity and life experience maybe have most shaped the way you leave and lead today?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Well, it's interesting as you were thinking about if you were as you were sharing about intersectionality. I was thinking about how there's so many layers of intersectionality that we don't see. And so, you know, as as a of course, a woman, a black woman, you know, identifying, and but then there's like neurodiversity, right? So like a highly sensitive person. I'm also a mom, I'm a single mom, right? And so that's an intersection that a lot of people don't think about, right? Um, I am a trauma survivor, child witness to domestic violence, but I also uh, you know, I grew up in a middle class home. So like this is some privilege, right? Educated uh at university and then have a higher education degree. So I, you know, it's there's so many layers. But when I first started delving into my work um in anti-racism, anti-oppression, uh, when we did the wheel, I was actually surprised at how there were so many things that I was privileged, you know, because we we focused, at least in my experience, um, people with brown skin tend to focus on what we can see and what other people tend to see first and sometimes react to first. But it was I was pleasantly surprised to see where I was closer to the center of privilege because it it it get it's empowering to recognize this these are the ways that my voice matters, right? The other piece is I identify as a business owner and an entrepreneur rather than an employee, which actually is not as close to the center because there are barriers when you're you know running your own business. So there's all these various layers I think about, but I will tell you the most recent one, and I mentioned it earlier, is being on that sort of neuro neurodiverse spectrum. And it's something that I never really considered being highly sensitive until I until I did, only like a couple of years ago. I did I recognize how much that impacts the way I walk into rooms, the way I lead and from the front of the room, the way I am with large crowds. It's just something that the way I interact in conferences, the way I network, right? Um, the way I am one-on-one with people, how I I love to go deep. As an introvert, I think is there's some over overlap there as well. So there's just there are there are a lot of things that I hadn't considered inside of this conversation of intersectionality, intersectionality that um that impact all of the work that I do and and who I am with my my son as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah, I love it. And you touched on so many areas, uh, and I and and that's really the biggest part of this conversation and why I always lead with that, um, especially because this we do have the video aspect of this, so some people might be watching us on YouTube, but most people are listening to this, right? And I allow myself to go there too when I have my guests, you know, before I meet them, I try to think of what they're going to say. And then I am always surprised by the things, as you said, the invisible layers that we can't know unless we get to know people. That's right. Hopefully, that's the biggest takeaway that people will work with, right? Like you could read somebody's, you could look at their name, you could see their picture, and assume so many things without even being conscious of that. Um, but if this is happening on the podcast, imagine the people on your team at work.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yes, yes, and it's I mean, it's it's one of the things I talk about so much. I mean, I talk about it in the context of our brains and communication, but but it's so relevant to intersectional intersectionality because we think about our brains and all the filters that that that our information has to go through in order to be processed. And then when we speak and we're speaking to others, all the filters that it goes through just for us to get out the words and the communication that we want to get out, only to go through someone else's many, many filters. You know, and then for them to respond through their filters, and so there's there are this this piece of intersectionality I see as a filter, like our identities are various filters through which we speak, through which we listen, through which we interact, and and just as you said, until we get to know one another and open the conversation, I like to say everything happens inside of communication. The moment you step into the room or log into a room, you're communicating. And so until we actually open those doors for communication, we can't learn all the filters, all the the the identities, um, who people are and what what's important to them.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Yeah, absolutely. And I think about even you you shared about looking at the wheel. So I do a workshop around intersectionality as well. I mean, and all of the things that when when we start to talk about intersectionality, sometimes people think, oh, you know, this is normally for me. We're talking about black and brown people, right? But I could have somebody that looks exactly like me, and our intersections are very different, our privilege and power areas are very different. And you know, when I first started having this conversation, of course, most of my guests end up being women, black, brown, but I also have had white men on this conversation multiple times, and so okay to like be curious about the layers that people bring to the intersection, uh intersectionality topics beyond what we see.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Yes, it's really important, and sometimes we can we can be mistaken in in the identities. For example, I don't know, I don't, I don't um know how old you are, I'm not going to ask, but most people would look at me and they would think I'm of a certain generation, but I'm I'm 10x, proudly 51. And so, you know, there's a and I am often mistaken for being younger, which means people interact with me like I'm younger, right? Especially in corporate spaces. Um, I am also 5'1, you can't see that on the screen, but being short and looking young comes with it a particular response, right? And so until I start to actually speak, people will have a particular um, they will have formed an opinion about me before I the words come out of my mouth. So the again, some of these are visible, but some of them are invisible. And we don't often talk about in that in that wheel or that intersectionality age. We the age is on there, but like generation, the generational piece is relevant. It's it's actually I I think it's fun to talk about um, you know, as as you know, in this in this context, because you really can you can break some molds and some perceptions.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yes. That's why I kind of like, you know, this is the first part of conversation. I I love to like give time for us to just dive into these and get your input on it. Um thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you just for your openness to chat. Um I I and I think being a millennial in the workforce also came with a lot of perceptions, and so I I I am used to thinking of age a lot because as millennials we also got to get in, we we got into the workforce with multiple older generations, and being the younger and kind of understanding some of them the way people perceive you, there's always a label and a stigma around being a millennial. Yes, um, but somebody recently was talking to me about how, and I agreed with it, how millennials are translator generations because we were raised by traditional parents, and so we know values. We we appreciate that perspective, yes, and we're also raising Gen Z. So it's very interesting, made it up. Okay, I see your point. I see how you guys are so excited, and so and I understand how it's so foreign to you that we appreciate steady and grounded values in the work. So it's it's helping to translate some of these generational differences and appreciate the fact that it's yes hand is not either or, you know, absolutely hand in into the workplace when we have this conversation. So, all right, Dr. Maesha, let's talk a little bit about your journey, your career journey. You have a beautiful blend and mix of experiences, and I want to ask a little bit if you could walk us through your educational and professional journey before we talk about your work. This is the part where I want to understand a little bit of how did you get here? It was maybe as far back as some early choices and then maybe key transition moments that you had in your absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Well, I you know, so I um I think I've always sort of gone against the grain as it pertains to my career, but I'll even take it back a little further. So, my my parents are um healthcare parents. My mom's a retired dentist, my dad's a retired uh physician, and so I was exposed to it as at a very young age. Uh, I would like to think I chose it of my own volition in the eighth grade when I was doing a writing assignment. I just decided, you know, I think I'm gonna be a doctor. There was no rhyme or reason to it. But um, but what I will say is when I was in college, I got introduced to yoga and I started to get get um be introduced to like more esoteric healing methods, energy work, things of that nature, and it really opened me up to something different. Um, I started to think about what what getting to the root cause of illness was like, and my undergraduate degree was also in psychology, so that's how I kind of fell in love with the brain of behavior. I remember taking um abnormal psychology class, and this was when I first entered college, I was a chemistry major because when you were pre-med, you were either gonna be a biology major, a physics major, or a chemistry major. I didn't have any other context than that, but I wasn't doing too great chemistry, I didn't like it that much, and so I said, let me try this psychology class, and there was something about understanding the abnormalities of how we think, and I think part of it being raised in a uh, you know, being a survivor of uh watching domestic violence or witnessing domestic violence, I think that kind of drew me in, trying to understand why people would act the way that they act in that way, and so that drew me in. And then the next class I took was behavioral psychology, and as I started to learn about classical conditioning and operant conditioning, Pavlov's dogs, and I just I was like, this is the key to human behavior, and I think that from that piece I was drawn in. Going to medical school, graduating from medical school, I always knew that my path would be different. I and I I went to traditional um MD pathway because I felt like I didn't know how, but I needed to integrate in our the natural sort of the natural what they used to call alternative methods of healing into the traditional path. And that's exactly what I did. I I became an acupuncturist, I certified as a coach, um, I learned hypnosis and uh deep emotional release work. Um I you know I learned a lot about herbal medicine, food as medicine, lifestyle medicine. And this was back before this was commonplace. This was back when it was strange. And and so I think like that kind of explains like my mindset. I've always just been, I always do things, say things, um, think about things before the the general public is saying them, doing them, thinking about them. Which kind of makes um the path arduous at times because when you're doing things that people don't understand, then they label it as something else, right? And so trailblazing is trailblazing is a double-edged sword.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

I know it looks nice and shiny down the road, but I know the the path as you are on the journey itself, it's not it's not always as easy, and that's also something worth sharing and diving into in this spaces. Um because it's never a straight path.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So about five years into clinical practice, I started to feel this itch that there was something more. I mean, I loved being an integrative medicine physician. I loved people would come to me from their regular doctors and say, you know what, um, I don't feel like I'm being heard. I this is I've got this thing going on, and I would talk to them about diet, I would talk to them about lifestyle, I would talk to them about stress. Um, I would really question them in a way that would bring up other issues that maybe would not have been brought up in the traditional medical visit. And so I really loved that, but at some point I thought, well, I is this it? Like it's just, you know, one-on-one patient care, is that it? And what I realized is that I I wanted something bigger, and then I had one of my patients was a physician, and um, she was burned out, and I coached her through this burnout, and I realized, oh, this is it, the coaching piece. And if I could um help my colleagues, how many more patients could I help? And so that was actually my first transition out of clinical medicine, um, moving into physician wellness. I started to do some speaking from there, doing a lot of coaching, and then I gave up clinical practice to be a full-time coach, um, physician coach and speaker and facilitator of in in hospitals and healthcare organizations. And then the pandemic hit. And we all know what happened when the pandemic hit, and so that was around the time that I put my social justice hat on and faced that forward, and that's why I stepped into the anti-racism work. Now, up to this point, I had this background in neurolinguistic programming, um, in psychology, and in and in medicine. So I had these three different contexts, and we were doing anti racism training in the in in mostly healthcare settings, but the work the what I brought to the trainings was this bridge between understanding. And application. So people would understand what bias was, what the characteristics of white supremacism, of oppression were. They would understand intersectionality as a concept, but when a per what they were afraid of was saying something wrong. And so what I would teach them is well, how do you listen and observe and notice when you might have said something that takes a person aback? What do you say in those moments? How do you repair when harm happens? You know, so and and what are the things not to say, maybe? And I found such joy in that because I would see, you know, have you know when you're in front of the room, and I know you know this, right, as a facilitator, as a consultant, when the light bulb comes on, you can just see it in their faces, you can see it in the body language. And I was getting it in those moments, and those were the moments that I loved the most. And so it occurred to me that communication, building trust, building safety, those are universal things, and I didn't want them to be just relegated to the anti-the anti-racism, anti-oppression atmosphere. And so what I I took the took it on the road and um deepened and developed my curriculum and began doing that facilitation inside of other organizations. And like you, I've worked with ERG. I think I got my start probably with ERG groups. You know, ERG, they they're always hungry for you know, for more. Yeah, yes. So I did a lot of, you know, speaking around psychological safety inside of ERG groups, and then um, you know, delved into healthcare. And now I'm in the space of um clinician leaders and non-clinical leaders doing group cohorts, uh, taking them through the communication curriculum, expanding emotional intelligence, helping them to connect to their own selves and their own survival responses as an access to be able to deepen the empathy and connection in their communications with others. So that that's sort of like the pathway to now. Um, it's been a windy pathway, and um, and I absolutely love what I do.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

I I know, and and I think as you were talking, what I was thinking of is also the frustration sometimes with oh my gosh, do I really know what I'm doing? I'm doing this, and just the patience to stay consistent in what you are doing, as you said, everything is going to come together in a way that is uniquely yours. Um, and it might not be as ops now. It's like, I mean, I came from corporate America as well, and I always struggled when I was in corporate America with that. What is my title? I I felt like I didn't fit into my title, I felt like I was much more than a title, um, but it felt like the only parts available for me were title driven, right? Okay, so to be a manager, the next thing is to be a director, okay, and then E D. Okay, next 10 years, those titles felt so empty, and it felt like I couldn't really quite capture like all the things I was interested in. And I thought something was wrong with me. I was like, why can't you just be okay? Um, so I I love what you're saying about all of the interest, all of the things you took, even with classes, and how it's shaping up right now in the work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yes, and and like you said, I mean, it is, you know, along the way, I felt like a lot of the the pathways that I took, I was led to, I was called to. Um, it wasn't really a it wasn't a decision that I made each moment. It was more I was called to each path. And then I made the decision from being called to it. Um, and it wasn't, it was like very, there was a lot of unclarity along the way that was nerve-wracking, right? You know, when I would get to a path and I'd be like, this is it. I love coaching, that's what I'm gonna do. I love physician wellness, that's it. And then I'd hear this, like, you know, I call it my God voice, right? Like higher power be like, but wait, there's more. And I'd be like, more? You know, and and then I'd start to like follow that path, and there's so much unclarity, and I'd be like, Are you sure, God? Like, are you sure I'm supposed to be doing this? And then higher power is like, yes, yes. And then as I continue to like, it's up in a big faith walk, you know. Like, I to continue to to listen and put my foot in front of the other and and and ask colleagues, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? I have one of the things I will say is that the biggest gift to me in this journey has been community, has been connecting with with people like you, with with people who are who share similar spaces, who have been generous enough to listen and for me to pass ideas by and say, okay, you know, what are your thoughts about this? Or do you is this something that you think there's a need for? Even when I've talked to leaders in organizations, I'll be like, Yeah, this is what I'm thinking about. What do you think about this? Who have been generous enough to provide enough feedback, which I think was higher power, kind of saying, Yes, girl, you're on the right track.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Yeah, and yeah, and that's one thing I've realized too is that you will get those moments and those reminders that even when you feel very uncomfortable, you will get those specks that remind you, oh yeah, I am on the right path. This is you know, keep going. Um, it might be true. People I have um a mentor of mine that it would like I would I might not have spoken to him for weeks, but out of the blue, sometimes I will be like feeling that, oh my gosh, what am I doing? And he would just drop a note, a simple note. And I, you know, it the timing is always right, you know. Absolutely, like in my feelings, and then I'll get a note. Lola, I am so proud of you. I love what you're doing, and and it lands differently when it's people that know you that have known you when they give you compliments, it's not people that are new to your space, right? And so I think those I'm I'm you know, I'm a Christian, I'm also purpose-driven and faith-driven part of my work. Um, but I think it's you know, there's a lot of discomforts that people don't see. Um, but yeah, we keep going. I am so excited to myself personally dive into some of the things that you're doing. I know we're not gonna have a lot of time to go into all that today. For anyone listening that want to follow your work and learn more about your work, where can they find that?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Well, so you can you can start by um listening to my podcast, beliefs, behaviors, uh, communication in the brain. And um, this is a good place for you to kind of really get to know me from a like a personal standpoint. I talk a lot of you learn about the work that I do. I talk a lot about uh emotional intelligence and psychological safety and communication, and but I talk about it in this in the space of storytelling, and so you you get to know me, but you also get to know the work that I do. Um, if you're if you want to read a little bit more about the work that I do, you can go to my website. It's mindremappingacademy.com. Mindremappingacademy.com. And you're also welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm on Substack. Uh I yes, I am on Instagram and Facebook, but I'm mostly, mostly on LinkedIn and Substack. That's mostly where I am from a social media standpoint. Um YouTube, I'm on YouTube as well, and all of those are backslash Dr. Maiesha. And then finally, check out the TEDx talk.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

That'll give you some lots of great resources. So if you're listening, all of those um things that Dr. Maisha mentioned will be linked in the show notes. Uh, but connect with her on LinkedIn, I'm sure you'll find the links for that. I would also uh pull up the podcast, our podcast as well, so you can follow our work because definitely deeper than all the things that we can capture here. Because I know you talk about psychological safety, emotional intelligence, uh the communication lens, and and your perspective is really unique again because of the journey that you have taken to doing this work, you know, the the trauma informed, uh brain uh science, medical science part of it. Um, I think it those layers make the work you are doing very unique in that space.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

All right, so um a little bit of final cheer for anyone that is listening, and I want to make that two parts. So, first for individuals. Um, I know you know your intersections personally have definitely shaped, shaped the way work that you do today, and and that's been very clear from our conversation today. But um, what what advice do you have for anyone who who's kind of listened to your intersections and maybe they feel connected or maybe they are struggling with some experiences of kind of decisions um right now, what wisdom would you offer someone whose identity or lead experiences um shaped where they are, and maybe they are learning to trust their voice right now.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Yes, well, I mean, you know, trust trusting their voice like that, those last three last three words are gold. I think that excuse me, I think that um oftentimes when we when we have those those spaces that feel like um those spaces of insecurity, they come from past wounds. I encourage people to to start to to dive into where some of that insecurity or where some of that fear or even distrust of oneself comes from, um, and and and learn your story, recognizing that it is a past story and that you have the power to make up a new story. And the second thing I would say, I recently said to a client, was um let your those those intersections lean into them as your superpowers. Lean into them as your superpowers. As a tested introvert in an extroverted world, one of the things I often say is like I love being an introvert because it gives me a different kind of listening and a different kind of way to interact with the world, and so lean into those things that maybe others might turn their head at, lean to lean into them as superpowers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

I love it. Um I was thinking of animals because how we talk about animals and their sense of smell. Um, you know, certain animals, maybe their sight is not as good, but their sense of smell is super sharp, and that's how they protect themselves. And and so I was comparing that to what you were saying, is our uniqueness gives some other senses different um hyper sensitivity, and and so we bring something different to conversations, and and some of our other senses are quickened in a different way than other people. So I love that. Yes, all right. So the second piece uh the second part of my final wisdom question is going to be for organizations. So I know you've all also worked with organizations um in the ERG space, and so maybe something that you wish leaders knew better, or something that if anyone is listening now who is a people manager or a leader responsible for decisions um within an organization, is there anything you would like to share with them as a takeaway or something to keep in mind as they lead people?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah, I I feel like I really wish that leaders would know and embrace the power of um modeling fallibility and vulnerability. Like we do, you know, as leaders, you do not have to know everything. And when you model humanity, your humanity, when you allow your humanity to show, it creates that safety for others to be able to be human. And and then they will be feel safe in trust, telling you things that maybe they were holding that that you could support them in, that would help them grow and help them thrive, and then ultimately help the team and the division of the department grow and thrive, and so modeling your own humanity that is, I think, the one of the big keys to building trust and safety in a team or a group, and and especially in organizations.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah, I like that. Um, I think a lot of times, you know, we're in the world where there's so many things that everyone has an advice on what you should do, like do this, do stuff, and we forget the power of just the inner work that you need to do and what you need to model, right? You can't be everything to everybody. There's a ton of rules, there's so many different people within your team. You might not be able to empathize with every single person, but if you stay vulnerable, as you said, model something that will put them up to trust in your heart, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and it's not it's not soft, fluffy stuff, it's actually good business decision. Yes, oh man, I you know, I I have to tell you, I tell people all the time emotions are data, emotions are data, it is not a soft skill, it is an essential skill, yeah, it is essential, and I worked in biotech, and it was always um I I you know, and I had somebody who was a bench scientist, this was early on, who made that comment like, you know, I am the the lifeblood of this organization, like my science and my innovation is what keeps us active, what makes us money. And basically trying to say anybody that is not a scientist is irrelevant. And I remember because this was already my career, and I was kind of struggling with that, right? Like, what is you know, we might have 70% scientists, but you sit in the lab making products all the time, that doesn't make the company successful, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Right. You can make you can make you can make the products, but if they're not connecting to the people who buy them, forget about it.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Forget about it. So, you know, there's no no no person is irrelevant when it comes to that whole supply chain. Yeah, um, everyone has a role to play and everyone is important, so that's right. Uh yeah, anyway, the old numbers like business goals, where our money goes, where where I was very involved in ergs earlier on, and and uh the manager is like, oh, we don't have time for all of that in this department, we've got to make money, you know, and you're very involved in that. Oh, I was so triggered. Um, this was a new manager, and I was like, Oh my gosh, how can a manager say that to me? Somebody who has been with the company for years and who just joined your team to say, Well, all that stuff that you're involved in, we don't have time for that in this department, you know. We're very easy, like making the company actual money. I was like, Wow, okay. I could tell I I wasn't gonna like working for that team, but yeah, it's like let's see how that goes. Oh my god. All right, yeah. All right, well, before I go to my uh last question, my signature question, um, is there anything else you would like to share as we wrap up this conversation with my audience?

SPEAKER_00 38:30

I I think that we've covered it quite well. I I, you know, I think one of the things that I I like to um impress is the power of community. Community is so important in um as we thrive, because we we have all these intersections, but at the end of the day, we all bleed red. And so, like really leaning into each other as community and and and nurturing that human connection, I think that is just so important in organizations, particularly where um there's they're they are starting to silo people out. It is that the sense of community that actually feeds people's souls, you know, much much to um, you know, I think that there's a word that that I've you some menopause girl, menopause. Um contrary, contrary to popular belief, um, community and fun and laughter, those are the things that fuel productivity.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love it. Well, find find your people.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Find your people, yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Thank you. So, my last question is a fun one. If you were to share a meal with your co-workers, what would you pick and why?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

What meal would I pick? Ooh, that's a good question. I like so many things. I think that if I were to share a meal with my co-workers, I think I would do fondue. A fun, you know, I haven't and I haven't done fondue in a while, but fondue is one of those fun meals where it is family style. And who doesn't like, you know, well, who doesn't like a good family style where you're dipping everything in cheese or chocolate or chocolate or chocolate where you have your marshmallows and chocolate or strawberries and chocolate or you know, bread and vegetables and cheese. Like I just I love fun to you. I think it's super fun. It can be messy, but that's okay because I think that's life. And when we cannot take ourselves so seriously, you know, we dip something, it falls on the table or on the napkin, or sometimes on our shirt. We can go home and clean up later, you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Yep, there's there's beauty in the messiness, yes, and the shared laughter that's built over that, and and that, you know, it's it's very unique. So thank you for sharing that. I love fun do. I don't think anybody has ever said fun do. But I can tell where that's also coming from, knowing you, and I I always connect the answer to the person and and the conversation we just had, and I think that represents what I feel from from you a lot. Thank you for the work you do, Dr. Maicha. Thank you for sharing your insights beautifully and for being a guest on this show. Thank you, Dr.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Lana.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Anyone listening, if you have any looking to share any feedback, just check at the bottom of the show notes. You can share feedback specifically about these. We're set up to get fan mails now. So I'd love to hear your thoughts about how what resonated with you with this conversation, and don't forget to follow Dr. Maisha uh Clevan if you are on LinkedIn, especially. Looking forward to feedback about this. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Thank you so much, Dr. Lola, for having me and for the listeners, because of course we all know without the listeners, there's no podcast. Yes. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Thank you for being part of today's conversation on thriving in intersectionality. If you're an HR or DEI leader and you need employee resource group or business resource group resources, let's connect and LinkedIn and help organizations build inclusive cultures through inclusive workplace communities, strategy, and storytelling. Immigrants and first-gen professionals, join our free community at www.immigrantsincorporate.org for career support, networking and resources in community with peers who understand your journey. Tag our podcast page on LinkedIn or connect with me directly to continue the conversation. Please don't forget to rate and review to help others discover these discussions. Keep thriving in your intersections. Your story matters. I'm Dr. Lola Adeemo, and this has been Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast.