NP Dan: Frontline to Recovery

NP Dan: Frontline to Recovery

Psychiatric nurse practitioner and Marine veteran Dan shares his remarkable journey from drinking at age 12, addiction, DWIs, and isolation to 19 years of sobriety and a career helping others recover. A powerful story of resilience, redemption, and the hope that's possible when we finally ask for help.

Transcript

Welcome to Recovery Rounds

Mark 0:07

Welcome to Recovery Rounds, Healers Helping Healers, One Story at a Time. I'm your co-host, Dr. Mark Winsburg, a former emergency medicine physician and current addiction medicine specialist with more than 23 years in recovery. And I'm joined by my co-host Marcy, a retired ICU nurse with over 48 years of bedtide experience and more than 10 years in recovery herself. Each month we sit down with someone from the healthcare world who's willing to share their own story about addiction and recovery, disconnection and reconnection, and the path back to reclaiming both the love for themselves and their profession. Our goal is simple but ambitious. By openly telling our stories, we hope to lessen, and maybe even eliminate some of the stigma and shame that so often surround the disease of addiction. Shame keeps us silent, silence keeps us sick, and too often that delay in getting help comes at a very high cost. So again, welcome. Let's get started. Today

Meet Dan the Guest

Mark 1:25

we're going to meet Dan, who is a psychiatric nurse practitioner and has a great story to tell. I do want to ask, why did you give in to my badgering for you to do this podcast?

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Good question. We've known each other for several years now, and uh you've always been a good friend to me. And it seemed if this was something that you're interested in me doing, then I wanted to help you out. Thank you for that. And now let's hear Dan's story.

Early Drinking and Escape

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Okay. So my name's Dan, and I'm an alcoholic. And I've been in recovery for about 19 years now. February 21st, 2007 is when I got clean and sober. He started drinking and drugging pretty young. I don't really remember exactly the first time, but I was, you know, probably 12 or maybe even younger. Got into my folks' liquor cabinet and drank myself silly. Drank myself till I was blacked out, puking. And where other little kids might have an experience like that and then shy away from doing it again, I instead did it at every available opportunity afterwards. And so I think uh drinking right from the get-go was something that was problematic for me. I I never really did it well, so to speak.

Marcy 2:51

Did you did you grow up around alcoholics? Anybody in your family?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

There wasn't a ton of drinking in my home. No. My my folks, my my dad and my mom both would have a drink every now and then socially. They had a little bit of stuff in their liquor cabinet, but it wasn't something that I saw a ton of. My older brother and sisters drank and smoked pot and stuff, but I'm substantially younger than them. I wasn't around a ton of that.

Marcy 3:18

A lot of people talk about feeling like they didn't belong and that somehow when they drank something, it made them feel like that those inhibitions went away. Was that part of your story?

SPEAKER_00 3:29

I I looking back on it, I feel like I wanted to escape. I I wasn't happy, I think didn't even really have the language to understand this or know how to say it, but I just wasn't happy where I was, who I was, and I was looking for something to take me outside of that.

Marcy 3:46

What to what led you to want to be a nurse?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Some of it was just really almost for practical reasons. I had never really been involved with healthcare. I just had this idea in the back of my head that if I could get an RN license, I would always have a job. And I joined the military out of school, my out of high school. I had tried some different things when I was younger, like worked for a carpenter for a while and did some different things that none of it really panned out. I felt like I didn't really have a good trade. And yeah, I just wanted to be able to be a good provider. I felt like that was something that I took from my dad. My dad always, we always had the lights were always on, there was always food in the fridge, that the bills were always paid. We had a camper that we spent summers in. I wanted to be able to offer those same things to my kids.

Marcy 4:39

Nice. So when did you feel like you were drinking alcoholically? And how did that interfere or how did that go along with your education and nursing career?

School Trouble and Marines

SPEAKER_00 4:53

It started to interfere with my life and my career pretty young. I think I was 13, and the school called my family in, my parents to have a little meeting and say that they thought I was drinking and drugging, that things were going bad for me going south, and they tried to have an intervention. My folks didn't really want to hear it. I denied, and they were happy to hear me deny. So I started having big consequences and stuff pretty young. It impacted my education, my everything pretty early on. Moving fast forward, I out of high school, I joined the Marine Corps. I knew I wasn't ready for college. I just drinking really heavily and stuff and using a lot of drugs. A lot of the people around me were in and out of jail, dropped out of school. I did somehow manage to graduate high school. Was one of those kids where they would always say, if he would just come to school and apply himself, he would do so well. And so I just I didn't I knew I wasn't going to be ready for college. I did manage to stop drinking, and I had about a year or so where I was dry.

Mark 6:01

During the Marines?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yep. And leading into that, and then about my first year or so while I was in the Marines. And looking back on that, it was really just a very miserable time in my life. Um, I really was that sort of quintessential, so bone dry, I was a fire hazard type thing. And then when I did finally start drinking again, I was really back off to the races, and then I would use that as an excuse from trying to get clean and sober. It was because I just knew I had been so unhappy when I was not drinking. After I got out of the Marines, I somehow managed to make it through successfully. Got home, joined a local Army National Guard unit, and got to work. Drinking really escalated from there. I got in more trouble.

Mark 6:48

Got to work at what? What sort of job did you have at that point?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

I started working, I had a few draught jobs right off the bat. So I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder getting out of the Marines. I'd been treated like a piece of dirt for four years. And the first person that looked at me cross-eyed, I quit. And I did that a couple of times. And then I ended up, it's funny, I got out of the Marine Corps and I ended up joining a company called Marcor. And they were at the time, and they may still be around, I don't know, a hazmat company. And I briefly got into that while I was in the National Guard. And I, like I said, I did end up getting in more trouble. I got some DWIs and stuff. And I had a lot of shame surrounding my drinking and my drug use. I knew I wanted to stop. I wanted to quit. I wanted to do anything but keep going the way I was going. And I just I couldn't. And that really scared me. Because I'd been telling myself all along, someday I'm going to quit. Someday it's going to be all right. I'm going to just put it down. Everything's going to work out. It wasn't going to be so far off in the future that I knew I was lying, but it wasn't going to be anytime too soon. But when I finally got faced with that reality that even when I wanted to stop and I couldn't, that was a big turning point for

Marriage and Consequences

SPEAKER_00 8:03

me.

Mark 8:03

When did you get married? You told me that you got married pretty young. Was that right out of the marines?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

I actually got married while I was still in the Marines. I w I was pretty young. I want to say I was maybe 22. And I think my wife at the time was 20. So we were really just kids. And of course, we had kids immediately to add big stressors to young kids being married. That was something that we had to do, obviously for the best, right? And like I said, I experienced a lot of a lot of consequences to my drinking and drugging. That marriage that I was in was pretty wild. Did she drink as well? Not really. A little bit. She would have a drink here and there, maybe smoke a little pot here and there, but it was never a big deal with her. She had her we had our own unhealthy dynamics outside of drinking and drugging.

Mark 8:58

Did she object to your drinking?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah. So my my drinking caused a lot of difficulties, a lot of problems in the marriage. I really, looking back on it, chose drinking over being with my wife and kids routinely. And I was really, I was an out of control drunk. I wasn't like some like a violent drunk or something, but I was just obligerant and obnoxious. I wasn't a fun guy to be around. It drove to drove me to do a lot of isolating. I did a lot of drinking and drugging by myself.

Marcy 9:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Because I knew that I would get out of hand when I would go out and drink with people, is when I would tend to get into more trouble and stuff. So I did a lot of it by myself. And then when I did drugs, I didn't want to share them.

Mark 9:43

So I fast too much.

Marcy 9:45

Love it.

Mark 9:46

Yeah. This episode is produced and sponsored by Mark Winsburg, MD Medical Services PLLC, my private addiction medicine practice here in Rochester, New York. I provide confidential, individualized care for people with substance use issues, especially professionals who value their privacy and prefer care independent of hospital systems and insurance company involvement. Learn more at my website, windsburgmd.com. That's W-I-N-S-B-E-R-G-M D.com.

Marcy 10:24

Where does the nursing career fall into that timeline?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

Good question here. So I'm fast forwarding to I went back to school as an adult in sobriety. So I had a much different perspective. Oh good. When I, like I mentioned, when I was in high school and coming out of high school, I wasn't ready for college and stuff, but I want to say I was 35 and I'd been sober about four years when I went back to school. And it really turned out to be a great experience for me. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I found that I was really good at it. I became even pretty competitive about it and stuff. Ended up graduating with honors. And I started off at the Monroe Community College. I really learned a lot about how to be a student there. We have a great resource here in our backyard, our own backyard with MCC. I really encourage people to start out there whenever they can. And then I ended up transferring to St. John Fisher for nursing. And once again had a great experience there too. Like I had mentioned earlier, I always had it in the back of my mind that if I could just become a nurse, I'd always have a job. And then I feel like I just kind of got lucky that it ended up being a good fit for me. I didn't really have a lot of exposure to healthcare prior to that. I had no real reason to believe I would be good at it or that it would be a good fit. And I've just been lucky that it was. I did start volunteering a little bit as an underclassman at MCC. I'd go to Monroe Community Hospital and interact with patients there a little bit, take them for walks, help them eat their lunch, just do some little stuff, get me used to navigating a hospital, interacting with patients, and then going into nursing school, just had a real interest in mental health with my own experiences as in addiction, anxiety, depression. I have had family members with uh severe persistent mental illness. And so I going into it with that background, I had a real strong idea that I was gonna want to be a psych nurse. And while I was doing nursing school, I ended up minoring in psychology. Really just gave me an opportunity to take a bunch of classes that I was interested in and always really enjoyed the social sciences.

Mark 12:47

Doesn't it make a tremendous difference going back to school as an adult when you have your childhood experiences that are real pain in the butt and whatever, that shift in focus and I guess maturity does make a difference.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

It absolutely did. And I I had a much different perspective too. I had two tours in Afghanistan under my belt by the time I was really going full force in school, and I just feel like I had a really much better idea about what was at stake, what was on the line, what else I could be doing with my time instead. And like I said, I ended up really enjoying it. I dove into it headfirst and ended up doing really well academically.

Lived Experience with Patients

Marcy 13:36

So you unlike a lot of the professionals like Mark and myself who were drinking while we were doing our professional careers, you didn't. But you still can bring that experience of being an alcoholic and having to find a way to stop. And how do you bring that to your patients?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

I feel like I just having some of that lived experience, seeing patients come through the door who not only have maybe anxiety or depression, but have some comorbid substance use stuff. I feel being someone who has really lived through some of the consequences of substance use and engaged in treatment, treatment really was a big part of how I'm doing what I'm doing today. Now, I I got involved with the VA and did their outpatient to chemical dependency program. They were able to really tailor a good fit to me, where that also addressed things like anxiety and depression, and I got involved with 12-step recovery. And I feel just having some of that common bond with folks. I don't always disclose that, and actually I I feel like there were times when I maybe disclosed it a little bit more, and now I rarely disclose that, but it it certainly has shaped my perspective.

Mark 15:01

I'm curious if you found what I have found in my work in addiction medicine, that when I share with patients who are in a s similar line of work, profession, or whatever, particularly with professionals, they seem very grateful that I have disclosed that. It seems like it is helpful when I use it judiciously, my lived experience to give people some hope when they're really at their lowest point.

Marcy 16:03

Yeah, I think that's a lot of it is that uh especially people that just don't think they have the hope or that it could ever happen for them, to say, look at me. And if they see that you're successful and doing okay and that you're sober, it gives them another example of what you can get back.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah, yeah. And I would also say to speak to that, I've had uh it hasn't happened a ton, but I've had some experiences where, you know, I so I starting out in healthcare, I was a tech and I went and working at chemical dependency, inpatient at Parkeridge, and would sometimes also work on the psych floor at St. Mary's. And then as an RN, I was working in inpatient psychiatry, and now I'm a psych NP and I work in an ambulatory clinic, and I've had an experience where there's patients that I worked with and treated as a tech. I then saw them in inpatient psychiatry, and then I've now seen them in an ambulatory program as well. And uh and I've actually had some of those patients comment to me, patients that at one time or another throughout that process that I had disclosed to them, my own personal connection to some of the stuff that they were going with. And now they've seen this progression and and seeing where recovery can take you.

Marcy 17:32

What a good example, yeah, to see that you can not just get sober, but actually have a life and increase your what you're doing and uh move on.

Family Life in Recovery

Marcy 17:43

So how are things with the family now?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Things are miles ahead different and better with my family. So that first wife and I ended up parting ways. We were just kids, like I mentioned earlier, just kids when we got married. And uh we actually get along way better now. Great divorced than we ever did when we were together. And I've since remarried, and the woman that I've remarried is we have a great time together. I don't want to sit here and sound like we're gonna be they're gonna be making a Hallmark movie about us or anything. But we actually do go to bed laughing almost every night. And good chance she's laughing at me and not necessarily with me. I'll take it.

Mark 18:30

Take it. As opposed to the isolation of this disease sitting in a room by yourself drinking or drugging or doing whatever.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Absolutely. And I did get involved with AA, and AA really helped to take that out of me as well. I really learned how to be social again in AA. When I was getting sober, there were a couple of groups that did a lot of social things that looking back on, I'm super grateful for. One of the groups would have yoker or yoker, euchre games and pizza parties and stuff, and they would do that a couple of times a month. And they'd have a big picnic in the summer and stuff, and and it really just got me interacting with folks again and realizing that I could interact.

Marcy 19:20

Yeah, that is

AA Connection and Balance

Marcy 19:21

nice. I think that's an important takeaway from this story with you is that it's an ongoing recovery, and I don't know, I also am involved in AA and find that it's the getting up every morning and going to a meeting, starting my day with a meeting just sets me on a better path than it would be.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah.

Mark 19:43

And you've kind of moved away somewhat from from AA from the 12-step programs. How has that been for you?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Good question. So that's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. And it wasn't necessarily a deliberate thing. It wasn't like one morning I woke up and said, I'm gonna quit AA or anything like that. It just I feel like it just happened organically over over time. I've I have maintained a loose connection to AA with keeping at least in some contact with friends. I show up and get my coin every year, and then someone usually gets their claws into me and gets me to speak at a meeting once or twice shortly thereafter. I I've been thinking more that I want to get back to it for different reasons this time. Not because I'm so dry that I'm a fire hazard or because I'm really unhappy or anything like that, but I just always feel better. I feel like there's been a weight lifted from me after I go to a meeting, and I get to see some folks that I haven't seen in a long time, and just that feeling of welcome, of going somewhere where people are happy to see me. My wife and I have a great life and we have a lot of fun together, but I don't really do a lot with other people. And so even just having some of that camaraderie, some of that fellowship, I do think that I do have a busy schedule. I mentioned I work in an ambulatory clinic. I also do a couple of evenings a week of private practice. I have a daughter in travel sports. I have a lot going on today because I'm clean and sober that I wouldn't have going on had I still been in active addiction. But I do think that I could find a way to make it to a meeting once a week.

Mark 21:31

I think you're a good example of how different people use 12-step programs or not in their recovery. And if you go to enough meetings, you'll probably run into people who say well, if you don't go to a meeting at least three meetings a week or whatever, that you're gonna get drunk. And I've found That there I've seen a lot of people do it differently. People do it without the 12-step programs, believe it or not. There are a lot of ways to get sober, but it's been interesting and gratifying to get back in touch with you recently and see how you've been able to navigate life and continue to be happy and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah, and I have kept in touch with some folks who have a similar trajectory as I've had, in the sense of how their participation in AA and stuff goes, anyways. Guys that I've sponsored in the past or guys that sponsored me in the past that are no longer super active, but yet still very sober and happy and living their lives. So I think you're certainly right there that people do take different paths. And I think sometimes in and around the rooms of AA, we like to share things about meeting makers make it. And some of that stuff, I don't mean to poo that. I do think it it can be true. But I think it also just reinforces some things that we want to believe there too.

Mark 23:16

Yeah. I've also seen the opposite, and I've actually seen that fairly frequently, and it's probably what leads a lot of AA people to say if you don't keep up with the program, if you don't invest your time and your being into the program, that your likelihood of relapsing goes up. And I can't tell you the number of people who I've seen professionally and in the rooms as well, that did get busy, their lives got better, and their relationships got better, and then we forgot, and they forgot what the medicine was that helped them get better and cut off connection with it, and then six months, a year, two years later, life gets lifey and difficult to deal with, and those neural connections that are already there kick in. Wouldn't it be okay if I just had one drink or if I did one line of coke and it wouldn't hurt anything?

Marcy 24:29

And I think it's also people that are in a really good spot think, well, I'm in a good spot. I haven't had a drink in forever. I'm probably maybe I'm not actually alcoholic, and I can do I can have a drink here and there and not realizing it's gonna start them down that tough path.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah, and I do certainly respect that that can happen and absolutely like you mentioned, have seen that happen with some people. I think the important thing for me to remember there is just as important that I stay clean and sober today as it was the first day I got clean and sober, and that my and then that I do need help in that. I mean, I don't need to do it alone.

Marcy 25:08

In the meeting this morning, somebody said, I I've been coming in and out of these rooms for decades, and I just realized that first step has we as the first word and how important that is.

Advice to Healthcare Pros

Mark 25:21

So, Dan, thanks for coming. Is there anything that you'd like to say to anybody, other nurses, other healthcare professionals, that they might be able to use from your experience?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Yeah, I would just share that there there was a time when I was super embarrassed. I didn't want anyone to know about what was going on with me. But over time, that perspective has really changed quite a bit, and what was once something that I was really ashamed of has become something that's been like my biggest strength and something that I've actually celebrated.

Mark 25:57

Yeah, I think so many people don't realize that, that all they can see is the shame and the guilt and blaming that surrounding them while they're active in addiction and the denial a lot of times that you're actually doing it, that you actually have the disease, it's impossible to realize that there are a lot of others of us in the healthcare professions that have been there, done that, maybe gotten a whole pack of t-shirts, are on the other side, and life is good, and it's not anything to be ashamed of.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

And the concepts that I've learned in recovery, I've been able to apply to lots of other areas of my life, and it really has been a blessing.

Marcy 26:53

Wonderful.

Mark 26:54

Thank you for coming. I'm really glad you agreed to do it. I'm sure I'll see you sooner or later, and it's been great to know you.

Marcy 27:02

Go nursing.

Mark 27:06

As we come to the end of today's episode, we want to leave you with this. There is no single path to recovery. For some, it's 12-step programs like Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous. Others find support through outpatient and inpatient treatment programs, individual and group therapy, religious communities, and other forms of spirituality, just to name a few. What matters most is finding a path that works for you, a reliable way out of the isolation of addiction, to reconnection with yourself, your loved ones, your profession, and the world around you. If you're a healthcare professional in the Rochester area, we invite you to Healers Helping Healers, a confidential 12-step-based meeting every Tuesday evening at 6.30 for medical professionals who are in recovery or simply beginning to consider it. Go to recoveryrounds.com for more episodes, comments, and resources. And let us know if you'd like to share your own story of addiction and recovery. We'd love to have you on. Lastly, Recovery Rounds is supported by my practice, Mark Windsburg MD Medical Services, PLLC, where I provide private, discrete care for professionals seeking help with substance use. Thank you for listening. Until next time, keep showing up, keep reaching out, and remember, recovery is possible.