0:00

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the pilot episode of Academia Obscura. I'm your host, Chris. Today, helping me co-host is Kate, and our guest for the day is Dana, owner of Hexa House, and my president over at International Pagan Society. Hello, Kate. Hello, Dana. Hey, Chris. Hello. How are y'all doing today? Great. Very excited to be here, with you co-hosting, and to get to know more about Dana, and yeah, just happy to be here. Feeling very wonderful today. It's a beautiful day outside, finally. It's been, having its ups and downs since April. Yep. So Dana, how's the shop going? The shop is doing impeccable right now. the community room is all set up and ready to go. So if anybody ever needs to come in, chill out, we have Netflix, we have, an easel for painting. it's very community organized in a sense where it caters to artists or, people interested in spirituality that they can't practice at home, or different stuff like this. So we wanna be able to have a safe space for people to come in, communicate freely, a hub for spirituality here in Chicago Hopefully, I want several of them. not just owned by me, but several people who have like-minded ideas, just to have, a place where people can speak and not feel judged by it. And I saw you're doing the manifestation candle workshop in a couple weeks. Manifestation candle workshop is going to be hosted by Crystal Marie, a very good friend of mine that I met at the Oneness Festival last year, and we had such an impeccable bond, right then and there. she is a local artist. She does her own tarot cards, and she also has a book out and some journals on spirituality and how to center oneself. it's gonna be a wonderful class, and I'm very excited to host it here at Hexa House. Dana, I'm curious to know, about, Hexa House and how, when that was founded and what inspired you to, create this space? Spirituality has always been a thing I've been interested in, since I was a wee child. It started out with Roman Catholicism. Our parents forced us into these things. But it really made something bud inside of me where I was like, "Okay, let's expand on this. This is cool, but let's try something else." And that's really where I got into, witchcraft, which has over 20 definitions since the 1400s. But in my experience it's always been, people that just want to heal other people, help heal their nervous system, help them manifest. Manifest is such a, niche word nowadays because of TikTok, but it really means to bring forth something that you're trying to get done. Mm-hmm. So it could be for good things, it could be for bad things. It could be like, "My back hurts," or it could be like, "I want that person to love me." Everybody has their reasonings. I'm just here to facilitate, educate, be like, "Hmm, maybe do this or maybe do that." Hexa House was founded in 2024, September 29th. It was created to take over Alchemy Arts. Now, Alchemy Arts was ran by Ken Filosh. Unfortunately ran into a multitude of health problems, couldn't go on anymore. And when they are like that you think you can't do any business with them. I would've loved to buy it by the name, keep it going on, but not for aesthetic reasons, but because we had to. We had to change it over to Hexa House, founded this just to continue to have a safe space for people who are into witchcraft or people who are into Buddhism or people who are into Santa Muerte a safe spot where people can come to do that type of worship to find more information, to get their tools. there's not many places like this, but not as much, broadcasting as needs to be done, like what the Catholic Church can do for the people or what the, Islamic or the, Jewish church can do for the people. Wanna have a beacon here, for people just to express themselves and have opinions and have- Mm have different ways of thinking. That they won't feel heavily judged or sometimes even emotionally and spiritually mutilated by for thinking- Yeah certain other types of ways. What, what's a, a myth, I'd love to hear your perspective on this, like around witchcraft. 'Cause I think that can sometimes have, well, oftentimes have a negative connotation, but like what would you say about that as far as... I don't experience negativity when I hear you guys talk about it. but I think that that's kind of a general thing, right? Like, ooh, witchcraft bad. Like, but what do you say about that? So that's heavily ingrained by Christianity. Yeah specifically by Deuteronomy. it specifically says something like, "If a person is a diviner or a prophet or a fortune teller to stone them right away until they're dead." Yeah. And it makes you think, like, why would God want that? Why would God want any of that? Yeah. if God created everything, then these people exist because they were created. So the stigma is that, witches are all Satanists, they're against God, they're blasphemous, they bring plague onto the people. and it was stated in the book Talmund and the Witch that it was really just a way to cull, a lot of the women. And to me that means, the church wanted to take over, because when you have a boo-boo or you have a problem or you need somebody to talk to, it's usually you go to a woman. Mom, I have a boo-boo. Mom, I'm hurt. Sister, listen to me, this happened or, you know, just to get some healing or get some gossip or get some spirituality. Back in the day before Christianity really took over, it was just go to your mom, go to your sister- Mm-hmm go to your auntie. Go to, you know, or even men included, that are also spiritual that you can go to, like, witch doctors. and so the church doesn't like that. They want you to go straight to the church for all your problems. Go to the priest. If you need healing, you should only get healing by God. if you, if you know about herbs, that's blasphemous. the Satan taught you that. Mm-hmm. Or if you have, like, a, an opinion outside of what the Bible says, that's blasphemous. You're gonna die automatically right away. So the schism is they worship Satan. Mm-hmm. But there's a lot of Wiccans that are also Christian that believe in God. A lot of the times, people confuse Wiccan and witches together. Every Wiccan- Mm is a witch, but not every witch is a Wiccan. Oh. The- you've got hoodoo, voodoo, Santeria, Brujeria. You've got ancient Egyptian ceremonial magic. You've got the Kabbalah, Judaism after dark. You've got, druidry. you've got all these different types of things pre-Christianity, how people used to, worship and devote themselves mostly to the land. and it was peaceful. Depending, right? We've got, ancient sacrifice of animals. We've got ancient sacrifice of people and volcanoes and whatnot, but we've also had holy wars. Knight's Templar. Yeah, the Crusades were such a fun time. We've had the Crusades. You know, nobody is really, not guilty in this. I think it's- Yeah the human condition. Sure. Yep. I really do agree with you on the monopoly frame because from a Judaism, even a Christian perspective, it's about locking in people to come through the priests and the church as one source to access the divine- Mm-hmm while trying to not acknowledge that there are other spiritual sources in the cosmos that were part of creation. While a fire entity or,, Eros is not the divine one true God, that does not mean that they are not an entity that can have insight and help you on your journey toward becoming your fully actualized self. Well, and aren't we- It's- if we are all of God, then aren't, aren't we all somewhat the source of truth? Yep. Yeah. We're all experiencing each other through each other, communicating- Sure it's like God experiencing themself through experiencing themselves through other people and communicating- Mm with other people, and that's why, when you walk in a room, you can feel if somebody's upset or if they're- Yeah happy. It radiates. It all is very heavily intertwined with each other. So when we hurt each other, we're hurting ourselves, and when we're loving each other, we're loving ourselves. So true. I totally believe that. Yeah. Yeah. But I believe it was also done to just help reinforce a complete social hierarchy system. 'Cause if you look at the Jewish, social hierarchy, it was all done through the 12 tribes. What tribe you were born in largely dictated what your opportunities in life were. The rulers came from Judea. Each different tribe had its own slot in the role and function of Israel, and then that just got grafted into the Catholic social hierarchy of the medieval ages, where you had your nobles, your peasants, your gentry, with rigid social hierarchies, with the whole system trying to keep you locked in place. Dana, I just... That made me think of something. Like, when you... People that come into your... what would you call it? Is it a sanctuary? Or how do you refer to your establishment as? It could be called a sanctuary. It could also be, the house of tools. Or, some people would just simply call it the house. So when you come to your house, what do you feel they struggle with the most, that you're providing the most guidance and healing to facilitate? Like, where... I'm curious what they're the most... Because of these labels and this, need to fit in, what do you feel you see the most with people struggling? So whenever people come in, it's almost like they come in because they're coming in for a little bit of an act of desperation. Like, "I need this to happen. Help me. Talk me through this." And so when people come in and they ask me about what they should do with their spellcraft or their manifestations or what they're praying for in their life, many names, but basically there is a goal in mind. I usually talk people through it, like, "What is your intention?" for instance, I get a lot of people coming in for love spells. So it's like, "Okay, are you trying to manipulate- free will in order to make that happen. because to put a love spell on another person is to manipulate their free will. That is black magic. I'm not going to judge you, I'm just going to warn you. That it's probably a bad idea. But there is no bad and good, it simply is what it is. Mm. Yeah. And these are the things people need to go through in order for them to grow. because without an antagonist, there is no experience levels to be grown. So it's like, okay, this is a learning lesson. You're going to do this spell. There might be negative repercussions. Hmm. But you're just gonna have to learn from it. Just like everything in life. but then there's also money spells. If you don't have a channel in which you're trying to get the money from, the universe will absolutely always give you what you want, you know? that's why you have to be very careful with how you speak. If you speak in a very depressive manner- Mm-hmm the universe will give you depression. If you speak in a very happy, positive, clear, conscious I can do this, I got this, the universe will give you that. Mm-hmm. but it does not recognize sarcasm or joking around. It, recognizes this is what you said and this is what you get. So- That's a good point right there- 'cause how many people are constantly in that state of sarcasm? You- And self-deprecation. Yes. So they're basically- casting a negative spell on themselves is kind of what I'm hearing you say. Yes. Because when you speak means to spell. So a spell- Mm is literally to speak. Now, before the Tower of Babel, I don't believe humans actually needed to speak to each other. It was telepathic. but after the Tower of Babel, I think that was put in place for a reason to confuse us, because if you have telepathic powers, you're able to speak with each other with just your mind. You can't lie. And so that, so you cannot be manipulated. So- Well, also some of the diversification that has happened in the sciences is the, and the arts has been its own form of a Tower of Babel. Yeah. Because classically, art and science and medicine was all just philosophy in one field. But then once we started specializing everything, everything gets published in its own language with its own unique vocabulary- Yeah in its own journals, No one, no specialists can talk to each other to get the full picture of what's going on anymore. Yeah. Spirituality and science were one and the same at one point. And this could be found through ancient texts like, the Emerald Tablets- Mm-hmm and other, ancient Egyptian ceremonial magic books where the sound and the vibrations and the frequencies helped, not only unlock things in yourself, but unlock physical portals and levitate. I love to bring it up Coral Castle. that man was able to create that Coral Castle moving those blocks by using a sound frequency device in order to match the frequency with the block in order to levitate it. And I do believe that is exactly how Jesus Christ was able to walk on water and turn water into wine, was changing the frequency. I believe in that, the sound frequencies too, Yeah really interesting. Because there is, data stating that with monks just vibrating their words and their sounds into a person, they could cure cancer. And I believe that there has been cures. He's also talked about that, I believe. I think he combines what you're saying. I'd have to do more research into it. I don't know too much about him, but doesn't he kind of take, spirituality and science and merge those two together? Yeah. Nikola Tesla did that as well. We could be having free energy. all of the great enlightenment thinkers- they viewed science as a way to understand what the divine built. It wasn't this pure materialism construct we're stuck in now. Yeah, absolutely. but you can't put a meter on free. So I think the problem with humanity currently is that we're in the way of ourselves. just with the amount of greed that's been going on, and the amount of malice and the amount of aggression that needs to be checked. There's definitely a misbalance between the sacred feminine and the sacred masculine. And this was done on purpose with the witch trials in order to cull all these women so that you could, disrupt the root chakra in the men in order to make them more controllable, to make them want to go into war. So you get rid of all the women, what happens to the men? They go a little bit insane. 'Cause they need that balance of the femininity- Yeah is what you're saying. You need that balance- Yeah and I think what's happening now, 2026 and onward, as we're reaching the Age of Aquarius, the need for the balance with the sacred feminine is coming back in full force. And you're seeing that with all the political movements that are happening, especially in America, South America, even Mexico, and all across the world at the moment. the need for comfort- the need for community, is coming back into play, and I think it's, it's definitely greatly needed, and it's approaching. Healing is definitely a feminine trait. Healing- I have a question about men specifically. I'm curious to know your, both of your take on this. I see a lot of men that are in pain and they're suffering, or, like they're hurting, right? Yes. But they don't know how to express that emotion, so it oftentimes comes out like, in anger, Yeah or hatred, right? and I feel, ugh, I wanna be, I wanna say this delicately because I, I don't want it to be misrepresented, but I feel that as women, and men that are more conscious, we could do a better job of trying to understand them instead of dismissing them or pushing them away because- Mm of their expressed emotion of anger or hatred. Maybe like create some, just a little bit of space for them to actually be heard. Yes. I feel people are so self-serving, and I'm all about boundaries, but I f- feel there's a big lack of trying to understand and empathize with another, and especially men right now. Because it can get a little scary sometimes when, a man is at the point, now. He wasn't able to just little by little just be like, "Hey, that bothers me." Right. "Hey, the, that, that doesn't feel right," or, feeling like he needs to hide in order to feel, more masculine. it's a major issue, that most men these days, they don't even feel safe. and that's- what gets them to that, very aggressive mode is the lack of balance between, a masculine and feminine spirit inside of them. To ignore one means that another one gets a little bit bigger and more out of balance. I have to say to you, it's okay. You can talk to us. Yeah. don't wait until it's time to blow up. just have the conversation now and, it'll be okay. Yeah. What could we do different as women, though? 'Cause I feel like- that makes sense, but it's like, what is it if we take full responsibility, why do they feel so unsafe? And maybe that's just more a question for you, Chris. Why do men feel so unsafe? Men feel so unsafe because our entire place in society is around us filling a constructed role that we're never prepared to meet, We have to go out and be the breadwinner, but we can't be the breadwinner, because there's also, the home environment and the dynamic, And there's a lot of misconceptions on what a nuclear family is supposed to look like versus what a modern family is supposed to look like- Mm-hmm versus what our bodies are supposed to look like in order to get a mate versus- Sure what our souls say, we should do for activity. But also it's because men experience emotions in their body, whereas women experience emotions more in their heart and in their mind. Yes. And that is a core disconnect. And so asking men to verbalize, all of their feelings, a lot of times they do not have the words or the language, and we as a society do not teach them that. Mm-hmm. so what happens is they feel something, they don't know what it is. If they're worried that if they go and say, "Hey, I'm feeling upset. I'm feeling nervous, this isn't okay," it will threaten their masculinity, and they will get rejected for it because that's not how society tells men are supposed to act like, Men are supposed to be quiet, stoic, strong, push through, don't go to the doctor when you're sick, All those things. So they have to, pretend to be a role, and everything just ends up gets bottling up inside, and their body slowly loses the ability to even communicate with itself. Mm a lot of times what I would say to women, especially if your man has trouble talking is learn how to touch him and learn how to- Mm reconnect with him in his body, right? It could be as simple as, i- if you see his sh- shoulders are tight, giving him a shoulder massage. Mm-hmm. It could be just hugging him. But once you can- help the body relax and come back in tune with itself, then the words can start flowing. but it requires that connection in order to happen. So women could, 'cause I think the viewpoint a lot of women, I could be wrong, but I think a lot of them are like, "Oh, men just want sex." But you're saying, no, just give him a hug, you know? Give him a, you know, just any touch, right? Yeah. It's just to n- that's a nurturing, way to activate maybe some safety and, and, yeah, s- right? Emotional safety. Yeah. Well, sex, sex is what we've, as men, told ourselves is the appropriate level of physical touch, Okay. think about society. We don't show, couples just holding and spooning and giving each other- massages and truly connecting as individuals, Right. Even in the movies you have, this great romance, then you've got a hot sex scene, then you go on- Right the action adventure and then the wedding, right? Right. Sex is what we tell people is the whole point, and the spooning or the afterglow after sex is oftentimes the only, real coming together that people have. Right. if you can, like, work on getting small doses of that physical contact, I'm not saying that sex is bad Right but sex is not the only way to access that level of intimate bonding. Mm-hmm. It just takes, some rewiring and conditioning to remember that there are other ways to access it. That's a great point. Oh, I love that. That was delicious, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of people needed to hear that, truly. Mm-hmm. and that also reframed my brain on how to make male clientele feel better. Mm-hmm. 'Cause a lot of male clientele do come in, and I'm like, "Man, do you need a hug?" Mm. Mm-hmm. Like, yeah. It's hard out there. It really is. I'm like, "Do you need a spell or do you need a hug?" You're safe. But yeah, sometimes lending an ear, but now I know sometimes it's just a hug, too, and that's- completely fine. Isn't that kind of amazing? Like when you think- Yeah if you think about, I'm thinking about this right now, and I'm like, 'cause people, I feel like today are more maybe sexual than ever, right? So that just goes to- Oh my God your point that that isn't the most intimate thing anymore. In fact, it's almost like we've almost taken the intimacy out of it- Yeah because hug is more valuable right now. A hug, and that level of intimacy, or even eye contact than s- Yeah. So the interesting thing about the spiritual community is it's intertwined with the kink community as well. Well, I'm not gonna say- Hmm kind of, it's pretty damn. There's some overlap at this point. There, there's a lot of overlap at this point. yeah, for sure. And, there, there's a very, huge kink community. and now it's just, like, making more sense on why that's happening. Spirituality, sexuality, science, a way of healing. What do you think, Chris? I think sexuality, comes from your sacral chakra, Your connection center. Sexuality is itself is a desire for union with your community and with another person. in my experience, people get into kink for one of two reasons, either because they have a unique bodily sensation that drives them sexually. Like say, they really love Jell-O on their feet, right? And that's what totally gets them on, and they just wanna find someone that'll put Jell-O on their feet, right? I didn't even know that was a thing. Oh, you have no idea. or they get into it because they have trust issues- and they want to then work through their trust issues by surrendering control to another person, and then that coming up through their root chakra is what lets them access their community and their sense of union and belonging. So a lot of the power imbalance, like dom-sub dynamics, are actually created by, working through trust issues and hierarchy issues, from damage or trauma or issues in childhood. And so by coming in through the kink community, those are all core, spiritual issues that can also be addressed through a spirituality frame. I have a question about this though, 'cause I feel like, and I don't, I don't know much about the kink community, right? But I feel like sometimes that's a form of avoidance. do people do that to avoid f- kind of like, like alcohol addiction or drugs or whatever. It's like, "I'm gonna get addicted to this feeling over here," to not address the internal, I don't know, l- feelings of lack or worthiness? It would depend on the intention behind the user itself. Okay. There is a dark and light side to it. Chris, you have more information on this. Yeah. I have seen it become a coping mechanism, there is a group of men who are in high strung-out, executive positions, They're rich, they have a family, they have such high-stress jobs that their brain needs an outlet for them not to be the one to carry everything all the time. Mm-hmm. What that group of men does is they go out and they do the really extreme subby, scenes, Because they need someone to put them in their place so that their mind can relax, Mm-hmm. it is a coping mechanism because their brain is trying to find balance, so they have to swing to create a sexual fantasy that will let them do that. Interesting. Other times, what I've also seen is if someone has a particularly, negative, view, like say they're racist or say they're homophobic, then their brain, in order to create balance, will go and make that a kink for them, Mm-hmm. like say for example, someone who's horribly homophobic, they're the ones that are looking at the hardcore gay porn because that's what they're jerking off to. Got it. Right? And it's their brain trying to create balance within their system. that sort of coping does happen, and unless people understand it, they can't work through other ways that they might be able to cope with it or address the root cause. But there's no shame in it because it's just their brain and their body, naturally trying to do what it can do. the other thing is some people do use kink the other way around, where they use it to match their internal narrative. So say you're having self-worth issues. You don't think you're worthwhile, you don't think you're lovable, you think there's something wrong with you, then you can get caught up in a fantasy that says, "I want to go be someone's sex slave and let them transform me and train me and groom me, because that will give me value to someone." Mm-hmm. And so in that case, your kink is then about trying to- create coherence by making your external worldview coherent with your internal worldview. that I've seen has been more dangerous Mm because young gay boys can get themselves in a whole bunch of trouble if they don't realize that's what they're doing. because if you find the wrong guy that actually can see, what you're offering and they just will completely take advantage So this goes back into the in order to heal you need physicality type of thing. Well, in order to heal you need relationship, Mm-hmm. Healing requires energy, Everything requires energy. You only have so much self-sustaining energy from yourself. You either have to get the energy to heal from a deity or from community, Right. Those are the only other two sources there are. there is nature, but healing just from nature absent a spiritual frame is pretty hard unless you, actually know what you're doing. so you have to go be in communion to get the extra energy, to get the vibrations to force, all the negative, energy out of your muscles so that you can work through it. No one heals in isolation. In fact, I hear they go pretty crazy when that happens. Yeah. you ever, watch how crazy people go on Survivor toward the end? Oh, yeah. They're just like, "Ah." They got the crazy eyes and everything. Yep. Humans were not designed to be alone. Yeah, I think that's so true, and I think what I hear, though, is, like, even, you know, when you say love spells are common and, like, I'm thinking about, you know, we have easy access, right, today to think... Like, there's dating apps. everything is just at your fingertips, right? But yet people feel a lack of love, More lonely than ever with all these options. People misunderstand what love is we have to love ourselves, right? We have to love ourselves first in order to see it reflected back to us in our world. So when you put into yourself, and we're not gonna call it selfish, we're gonna call it self-full- which is, something coined by one of my great friends, Rosha Crean. Self-full. When we put into ourselves, we raise our vibrational frequency- and we invite the people that are supposed to be in our life. So, if you're giving- So you don't, you need to trust yourself, right? too much of yourself out, if you're, like- trying to, put yourself out there and you're not giving back into yourself, and you're pouring from an empty cup, lower vibration. You're gonna get, for lack of a better word, more shitty people in your life. But if you're pouring into yourself, if you're filling up that cup, if you're giving yourself more spoons, if you're doing the thing, going to bed early, eating right, doing good to yourself, then people will see that that's the way you like to be treated. Mm-hmm. Like, she's doing so good to herself, I wanna treat her well. And the people that will treat you well and love you and appreciate you for what you're doing for yourself, they'll naturally come into your life. I run a witchcraft store. I'm president of an international pagan society. I do this because I love people- Yeah because I love me, 'cause I want to love people. So this feeds into it, because we need a place where we can communicate and foster community and, have a safe place where we won't get ostracized or demonized. I hate that. Absolutely. Where a person is stuck on some type of viewpoint, where it ostracizes and condemns other people just for being themselves. No, but I think it's... Like, well, I think that's it, is people feel, they don't fit in or they feel ashamed or these... Like, they don't feel unconditional love. I would say that's largely comes down to two things. Number one, people grossly misunderstand what love is. Mm. Love at a fundamental level is about your soul's resonance with another human being. Mm. So first off, in order to find true love, you have to first understand what your soul's resonance is and what your divine purpose is- Well, let's talk about- resonance- Right and what that means, 'cause I don't even know that people really fully understand that. Right. You've got your mind, your body, and your soul, Mm-hmm. Your soul is your energetic self, Energy vibrates with a frequency. like a radio, you ever see the old-fashioned radio waves where they go- Yeah up and down and up and down? That's energy. That's what your soul is, Mm. Your soul resides in your, central node, which is what gives your heart the signal to pulse, right? the actual beating of your heart is your soul forcing your body to keep going, Mm-hmm. every soul has a frequency based off what your divine purpose is, when you reincarnated into this life, there was a reason for your existence this time around, Mm-hmm. There was a lesson you were supposed to learn. There was a job you were supposed to do. There was a relationship or something, like- An assignment, yeah yeah, there was an assignment. And so that assignment is your divine purpose. The first thing you have to understand is what your divine purpose was. That is the first part of the journey, And nowadays there is so much debt slavery, and even religious slavery because the entire framework of our society is built around debt economics, right? You have to have a mortgage. You have to have car debt. You have to pay all of these bills. You have student loans, If you want to survive and live, you have to go into massive amounts of debt, and then take a job that doesn't pay you right, that treats you like a replaceable part- in order to then service the debt to continue living. Meanwhile, the dominant, Judeo-Christian frame is that because of original sin that, your ancient human ancestors did, you are now doomed to hell unless you go through and pay sacraments to this church so that eventually someday humanity might have a shot at redemption, but not really because original sin can never be repaid, But- Kind of hypocritical, hypocritical, isn't it? He died for our sins. But I was just gonna ask. that was gonna be my next question, 'cause yeah. yeah, they say that, but then they ignore half of what they say, right? think about it. If Christ died for your sins, then why is original sin still there? why is that still the justification for anything? I think about that a lot of the times, but I... This is gonna sound bad, but I don't think too deeply about religion, even though I am, I consider myself religious. Like, I do go to church. Mm. But, like, according to the church, right, like this would be, like, witchcraft, right? Like I'm doing this would be a no-no. but I just don't believe that. Like, I believe if God cre- created us all and so uniquely, you know, like I have this necklace on with, angel numbers. Like some people are like, "Oh no, angel numbers aren't good." I'm like, "I'm telling you, I feel things when I see them, and I know that it's-" God speaking to me. like, and that's all I know. So I just- Yes yeah, I don't believe everything that I f- I trust my inner guidance more than external. But I know a lot of people struggle with that because people are more logical, than spiritual. and people were also conditioned to believe they needed a priest to go to God for them. That was the animalic path. That was a large other reason for killing the witches in Deuteronomy. If a individual can go talk to God or talk to the divine for themselves, what do you need a priesthood for, right? What do you need a temple for? What do you need sacraments and confession for? You don't. But if you don't have a priesthood, if you don't have someone saying, "These are the rules for how you get to God," then you can't have mass social control, right? Right. so a lot of it was like th- there are a lot of people born with the ability to talk to angels, talk to God- Mm-hmm talk to the other types of spirits, like in the spiritual realm. Yeah. I believe, I believe that I have that. Yeah. 'Cause I've had many experiences where I can't explain, but I know something in my soul. I don't know how- Yeah. Yeah. That right there would get you hanged. Yeah. There are very godly woman- Yeah who said the exact same thing that are just very wonderful people burned at the stake. Yes. Well- Oh, man well, look at you- They'd be like, "Oh no, that wasn't God talking to you. That was Satan." No. You'd be hanged, and then you'd be made a saint afterward, just like Joan of Arc. Yeah. Absolutely. They kill you while you're alive because you're dangerous, but then they tell everyone to be like you. Wow. Yeah. I reject that the celibate pedophile rapists get to decide morality for the rest of us. Hmm. There we go. See, there's just so many things, right? It's like, I, oof, I don't know. What were you saying, though? Go back to resonance. Resonance, okay. Before I get off on that. So first you have to find what your divine purpose is, because that- is the frequency that your soul is resonating on. Once you find that, it becomes much easier to find true love, because love- Well, hold on. Pause there. Pause, Chris, because what you just said sounds simple, right? Most people will never discover what you just said. Yeah. It takes a lot of work. Or it's kind of easy but hard at the same time, because all you have to do, is follow your passion to its highest frequency. For Jimi Hendrix, it was that fucking guitar. For, Gandhi, it was doing what Gandhi does. For The Beatles, it was to be The Beatles. But don't try to do somebody else's path. You'll fuck up- No your own path, it's different for everybody. But- But that takes courage And people get in the way of themselves with morals and ethics more than ever, because sometimes you need to do a little bad to follow your highest passion in order to do something. You gotta break a heart or two. but it's all part of the process. It's all part of growth. Jesus also flipped over the money lending tables in the temple, because they were charging- that was very passionate people interest. Yeah. I mean- Passion of the Christ You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. yet people do box themselves into rules. just like when I train MMA, I'm gonna get a bloody nose. I'm gonna give somebody a bloody nose. I'm actually hitting them when I'm training, but it's not like I'm causing cosmic damage that's going to, maim them for life, The struggle is part of the point and part of how you know that you really want it. Yeah. Oh, I agree. But going back to the tribes, I think what holds people back from following the divine calling is that they won't fit in with their tribe, whatever they were, like, born into, right? Mm-hmm. that construct of, like, "This is how you're supposed to be." Mm-hmm. And then that attachment is so strong, 'cause I hear this from people every day. Mm-hmm. Like, "Oh, I wanted to be this or that, but you know, my parents wanted me to be a doctor," or whatever. and then they'll just be that forever. Mm-hmm. They're miserable, and they don't know why, and they start- Yeah drinking and- Yes they're like, "Oh my God, what is my life?" When they were supposed to be an artist. or a baker or something that- Mm-hmm brought them passion. Mm-hmm. Mm. Would bring them the love of their life, or- Mm their earth mates, the people, the friends that are supposed to be in their life. And a lot of people like to focus on, "I just want my one." But there's, so many, so many aspects and so many ways to experience yourself through other people. It's not just like- Yes a lover or partner. It's a best friend. Mm-hmm. it's a father. it's a mother. It's my favorite customer, oh my God, he's back. Yeah. So true. And they look, they come in different packaging than you would expect. 'Cause see, people are, if they don't look a certain way, like th- like part of your tribe, then they immediately maybe don't allow the souls to connect. This is something I've experienced my whole life. Like in high school, I was friends- with a lot of different groups. But my groups that I was friends with, they were like, "Why are you friends with that group or this group?" I'm like, "Because we connect." I don't see the outside. I see the soul, right? But most people aren't, designed that way. Or, well, I believe that they are, but maybe they get in their own way, The ego gets in the way a lot of the time from people and their own happiness. there's something that they built up for themselves, in order to, peacock, or, express themselves. but they just box themselves in And I remember reading this article about the last hermit in America, and he said that personality stems from being in society, and when you're out there and you're alone and you're not talking to anybody, you're just alone with your thoughts, and you don't have to take the ego out, have the personality, and speak to people. we make that in order to protect ourselves, to only let certain people in, but it's so self-deprecating, So it's more protection. It's because, you're basically closed off, so you're only- letting yourself be in One group of people. Kind of like a herd mentality or- Mm-hmm the reason that gangs were created in Chicago to begin with was to protect the family or protect the neighborhood from outsiders and whatnot. Right. This, the cliquish behavior stems from a sort of a survival mechanism, but if we go the opposite of love, we enter fear and control. Right. And the opposite, of godliness is, you know, demonic-ness. So, I would counter that, Counter it? Yeah.

Chris 41:08

fear is not the opposite of love. Fear is a threat response, To losing something, either losing your security or losing love. The opposite of love is actually apathy, to not- care about anything.

41:21

Ooh, I like that too. Yeah. 'Cause if you're truly apathetic about something, that's like the complete absence of loving them because you really don't give a shit what happens to them. Right. That's what you can't come back from. fear you can learn to become more secure and learn how to, better interact and share space or communicate with what you're afraid of, and over time grow the love back. But where would we say control comes into this? If you can go and control the river, by putting up dams, then you don't have to worry about the flood, If you can control the people, then you don't have to worry about uprisings, threatening your way of life, Control is a way to manage our fear responses because we think that is how we will gain security. But then we just become paranoid and fearful about losing the artificial security that we've created- which leads to a need for more and more control. Because we never actually built community, and love with, the people and the earth in the first place. So it's a death spiral. So do you think that, a person can be both, loving and controlling at the same time? I feel like someone can be loving and guiding at the same time. think of, an ideal father, with a child, Mm-hmm. there may need to be some boundaries and some rules while that child, grows up. There may need to be some consequences for some actions, But ultimately, that's done for the good of the child. It's not permanent, and eventually the child learns and grows up, it doesn't need to be in a sense of you're locked in this tower, forever until I find you a husband, But it's a, "Hey, you just, said a curse word to your mom. I'm gonna slap you across the mouth," Or, you just, pulled your sister's hair, you're grounded and don't get an allowance for a week, Those are normal parts of the human experience. but they have to be done from a place of love and from a place to course-correct so that the individual learns from their behavior. All right. So no control, but very loving guidance. Right. Probably what this world extremely needs. Right. And consequences for those that are disrupting life in a very detrimental way, like the wars that are happening in the Middle East right now. Right. To me, control is about trying to manage the choices that someone makes, whereas love is about letting them make whatever choices- Mm-hmm they want to make, but making sure that they understand the consequences of those choices- I agree and that they have to live with the consequences of those choices, even if they are negative consequences. But you are still free to make whatever choice you want to make. Right, because you have free will. What's your take on astrology and just, like, when you're born? Do you think that plays a role, or is that just another thing we look to for- So it depends, right? Because there is Western and then there's Vedic astrology, and some people think one is better than the other. I'm more biased towards Vedic astrology regardless, we have it, and we use it. And we have 12 different houses, each one dictating, what different roles in our life are. for instance, my Mercury, which is house of communication, is in Gemini, where it's most comfortable because it is an air sign. And in order to know astrology, you need to know a lot of math. You need to know, not just astrology, but you also need to know, astronomy dictating the planets, this is where the planet was at this many degrees and so on and so forth. it takes about, for a lot of people, five to 10 years to fully understand and grasp, how to do astrology correctly. 'Cause it's, it's not woo-woo, it's a very mathematical process- Mm-hmm on how the planets were and how they dictate and what they do. and when you're born, you're born through your mother. It's a literal portal between the spirit and the physical world that opens up. This is the portal that was- Mm opened up by the time you were born, and this is how different things are going to be. and then there's also a house in which it's a generational, like everybody born in this generation is gonna be something like this. Mm. And this is their collective, mission in life. And then these are the little details in between, that guide us to understand each other in order to get certain general missions done. for instance, my generation, people born like 1994, around that area, we're supposed to, break down what we know now and then rebuild it back up to where it could be or should be. so astrology, yes, it's a thing. It's real. and it's a part of, I believe, knowing the universe around you, much like knowing nature, knowing science. you need to know the stars, the planets, the trees, the waters in order to be a good guide, a good, leader, to help the planet and its people. And- Mm a lot of people are just like, "Oh, that's Satanic." How? Why? Yeah, that's what I always- I have people calling me in here like- Yeah "Are crystals evil?" They grow- Yeah from a fucking mine. Yeah. From the Earth. the, Augustinian medieval church really conflated Samael with Satan, and it's not funny. those two do not fulfill the same purpose at all. Yeah. but back to your astronomy point, I have a slightly different take on it. Yeah. For me, yes, it's real, but not in the sense that the planets dictate. For me, the planets and the stars are there to help guard the missions for all of humanity- Mm-hmm and the entire tapestry that fate is weaving. Mm-hmm. And so you are born at a time when the system is most able to... help keep you along in your journey, Mm-hmm. And by understanding your chart, understanding how you relate to the planets and the stars, those are like signposts and, hints for what the phases of your journey are. And so by understanding astronomy, it's not that they're dictating your life- Right it's that they're giving you hints for what the general arc of the path that you are supposed to be taking is. All I know is that when I read about th- that, right, like, it is very accurate as far as, like, how I interact with the world and people. Yeah. and some people will be like, "Oh, you're just, that's just 'cause you believe it," right? And I'm like, "Well, oh, sure," but, like, it's als- It's pretty damn eerie how correct it is. Yeah. So that's, I just think that's kind of interesting. Yeah. And everybody has their different types of astrology as well. Let's not forget, the Chinese zodiac. Yeah. Right. The year in which... I, I look at my Chinese zodiac and, a Year of the Wood Dog, 1994, and it's just like, "Oh, you're loyal. You love community. You're very loving. You're trustworthy." And I'm like- Mm-hmm "Yes. I'm all these things." What year were you, Chris? Hmm? What year were you born? '89. '89? '89. Okay. And I'm '87, so- Yeah okay. Interesting. I know we're in Yang Fire Horse right now, which is pretty epic. Yeah. Everything's gonna go forward and fast, and in a blink of an eye, it's gonna be really great for business, and it's gonna be great for, entrepreneurship. And, if you have things that were on the back burner, it's on the burner now, and it's ready to cook. it's gonna be a great year for everybody to kickstart and get their stuff done. I feel like that. And then in Chinese astrology too, different years, depending on what your year was, affects different organs as well. So, like last year, I had to take care of my lungs and take care of my throat and take care of, my ears, and what did I get sick with? I got sick with, pneumonia I had a little bit of, walking pneumonia. I got, my chest and everything. And, you know, should've listened to the Chinese zodiac. They already warned me about this. Because, different planets control different parts of your body system as well. and then, when the planets go into retrograde, what's most famous is Mercury in retrograde. travel, communication. Most of the miscommunications I've ever had in my life were during a Mercury retrograde, or, misunderstandings. And most of my customers come in during Mercury retrogrades like, "I fucked up. What do I do?" Or, like, my last trip when I was in New Orleans, I was delayed two days. I was sleeping in an airport. I was like, "Why did I do this to myself?" You know? there is something to it, and you can't ignore it because, you observe it, and it consistently happens over, and over, and over again. And so if you observe it, and it's consistently happening- Mm-hmm over, and over, and over again, there's probably something to this shit. Right. Well, it's all connected is what- Yes I think. So it's like, and that's just a reminder. Like, if you- Yeah look at all of it, there's truth in the, pattern- Mm-hmm to, like, all the different teachings of the religion, the astrology. Like, all of it, it seems like there's a... it's all very similar- Yeah in a way. We definitely have free will. Do as you will, or as, the Book of the Law states, "Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law." But you got a nice little guide system that tells you, hey, probably don't do it at this time. And if you do- Mm-hmm do it at this time, probably a slowdown, a miscommunication or travel. Or, like, Jupiter in retrograde, slowdown in business, luck, and expansion. But that also integrates with where is your Jupiter in your chart as well? Mm. It's a, it's, it's a... I would pay a very good astrologer to communicate with you to tell you how all of that works because they've been through the schooling. They've- Mm-hmm they've done all the mastery. They di- they did it for you, and it takes forever to learn. Honestly, you have to be really good at astrology, and mathematics, and whatnot. Victoria's really good. Maybe she'd be a good one to have on the podcast. Oh, Victoria would be great to have on the podcast. You could talk to Demetri about palmistry. Tarot card. Well, you could talk to Demetri about anything- About anything thing in the- Like, if I highly recommend anybody for any type of pagan talk that could go on for hours, Dimitra Nanos. that's our head elder for the International Pagan Society. Oh, wow. She has a brain that is solely focused on paganism, witchcraft, history. Archeology. definitely Dimitra would be the one to talk to. I learned a lot from you today, Chris, on, divine masculinity. not a lot of people talk about, but I'm so happy to hear it. People don't understand that true divine masculinity is what grounds the defined feminine. Mm-hmm. if you look at pictures of Kali, from the, Hindi tradition, Kali is the divine feminine in the I'm gonna kill, the shit that's fucking the world up mode, Yeah. If you look at her, she's standing with the head of someone that she just cut down with one foot on top of Shiva. But she's not conquering Shiva. Shiva's just resting and grounding her, and that grounding is what allows her to act in her true form. the lack of the divine masculine is what's, warping the divine feminine right now, because there's no synergy to, lock either in place. Kind of like a there's somebody there to protect me while I say what I need to say type of thing. it's also someone that will hold you when you're done, and, will ground you and take care of you and nurture you, after you've done what you need to do. Yes. Yeah. Something we greatly need nowadays- that's just not being, not being done. thank you so much, Dana and Kate, for this powerful episode on occultism and spirituality. Thank you so much, Chris. It was a deep and meaningful and eye-opening conversation. I really enjoyed myself, and I would like to come back on the program. We could talk a little bit more about occultism and the world that is currently Sweet. I'm down.. See you on the other side.