Man (and Woman) In The Mirror

Pablo and Vanessa discuss the tension between compassion and accountability, and what happens when “understanding someone” becomes an excuse to avoid truth. Inspired by the quote given over in a recent talk by Lee Harris, “We give people an excuse for bad behavior when we don’t trust their capacity to grow,” this episode explores the stories we tell about others, the patterns we excuse, and the uncomfortable mirror those patterns reveal in ourselves. Through reflections on relationships, growth, perspective, and Michael Jackson’s Man in the Mirror, the conversation returns again and again to one question: What are we actually seeing here?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You ever notice how fast your mind goes to it's them. They're the problem, they're difficult, they don't get it. And it feels completely true and justified. But if you slow that moment down just a little, something important underneath is there. And most of us don't stay long enough to see it. That moment right there, that's what this podcast is about. Seeing what's here.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Hey Vanessa, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I'm good. Good morning. They're great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's, you know, like I was sharing earlier yesterday, was just uh kind of some weird, weird energies. I felt like, you know, just bleeding out of me, going to multiple different places. But I was able, you know, get out in nature, take a walk, and bring it back in for sure.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yep, that's always really good. Yeah. I was thinking about this week because, you know, whenever we used to get together, uh, we would kind of go over um what we would work on the week prior. And uh um the one thing that I was really hooked on that we talked about a lot was inspired action. And so um uh this week it was really neat because I actually made some headway on um uh the website. Nice. Uh because I gotta figure out some kind of way that we're gonna I'm gonna turn this into something. I've got some ideas, but I need to, you know, actually put real like I actually figured out how to attach Stripe to the website.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Oh, great.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

And so, and I've picked a template for the website that I think is gonna be pretty close to what I'm doing. And it just brought me back to thinking about how helpful your, you know, the sessions that we had were, because uh it's that kind of work that we did that doesn't seem like it's a lot, but it's a lot. Following your triggers, things like that, and staying with it. That's a really big thing. When I see all your videos and stuff, it's like that's where the magic is. It's in the trigger, it's in that moment where it's like you've got a you got an emotion of some sort. You know, what is it? What is the emotion? And instead of trying to push it away, which is what we normally do, like by self-identifying or whatever, or really doubling down, you say all the time, sit with it, be there with it. Right. And so I'm trying to think of how that happened this week. Well, I think it was just um most of the time, at my age especially, I have to deal with like um my body getting older and not being able to do as much. And so there's a little bit of shame and guilt in like not being able to get as much done as I used to. And so I sit with that now. And instead of just push it away, or I think um one of the things that was easy to do is drink it away, right? Sure. Something like that. I can just sit with it and say, hey, it's okay. Where did that shaman go come from anyway? Where was that? Where did that really come from? Right. And if I walk that back, I can say that a lot of that isn't even mine. A lot of that was kind of indoctrinated, built into my nervous system, and I don't have to go that way anymore.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Absolutely not. That's really cool. That's a big release. I mean, you're that's something that we talked about in our early sessions, that the ima, the mother consciousness, and then the abba, the father consciousness. So that the mother, the ima consciousness is you're sitting with how you're feeling, whatever, or even the physical pain of something, and then going into a releasing. Like, I don't have to hold on to the story or the guilt or the shame.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

It's not part of me. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yeah. And I don't have to build a story or have any kind of control because that's a lot of my response in the beginning was like to build some kind of method of control. I'm gonna do these things this way. And right, but instead, no, instead of that, I'm trying to release blocks, you know, get blocks out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

That's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

For more flow. Exactly. In your in your sessions, flow was a very important thing. And and that to me, that was important to me, like in life. Because life feels better when it's flowing.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. That's that term Mazaltov. People say Mazaltov, you know, people say it as kind of like, oh, good luck or a congratulatory term, but it actually means good flow. And that's what we want in life. Even think of body ailments a lot of times. It's because there's something that is blocked up or constricted in some way.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Not flowing.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah. Yeah. That's so important.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

And like going back to a past podcast, as above, so below, maybe there's something we're not paying attention to in our spiritual or soulful life that needs to be right given some attention.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Great. So that's that's a good discovery.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

What have been what's been on your mind?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah. So this week. This week, um, I I was listening to just I gosh, I don't even remember who it was now, but they said something in their teaching, and it really just stuck with me. It's that we give people an excuse for bad behavior, which I don't even really like the term bad behavior, just whatever. So we'll just say behavior. So we give people an excuse for their behavior when we don't trust their capacity to grow. And that's just it stuck with me because you know, there's been in my life recently a lot of challenges with people. And I was just thinking, well, am I trusting their capacity to grow? You know, I think of the clients that I work with, and I do trust their capacity to grow. And so that's where I feel like I can push and challenge them because I know they have that capacity to grow. But don't we all have a capacity to grow? I I was talking with my husband about that last night. And he was saying his thoughts about growth, it's the ability though to see something from another perspective. Like when we have when we are not willing to do that, right, then we're stuck.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

We don't have that growth and that expansion.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

I was trying to think of a podcast that I saw where I can't remember what psychologist it was talking about. There was a guy that used to steal cars, and then all of a sudden they're they're trying to break him of that habit, you know. Yeah, because it's not a good thing to be stealing cars. But and could you grow out of that? And he remembers that guy saying, you know, this is just where I'm at. You know, it's like where they are in their development. I remember we're younger, when I was younger, I did like to, I had like a a savior thing. If I would meet somebody and they would be in a certain way, I'd feel like, yeah, I could probably help you, or there's something there was some reason why I came into your life where I need to help you or do something like that. But now at my age, I can leave it alone, you know, because it's just where they're at. Right. And maybe that's like because we talk about this all the time. Like you're if you don't work through something, it's just giving back to you again. It's like a game. Oh, right. If you don't work through it, it's just gonna give you new player, new circumstance, and there's the same game.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

And and then you've just gotta figure that out. And I don't know. Was it a a particular friend that had this issue? Like that you're worried about their growth?

SPEAKER_00 7:47

No, not in particular. It was more about the people who who have presented challenges to me lately. And I was thinking, do they even have the capacity to grow?

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Oh, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

And I'm like, well, yeah, we all do, right? But in order to do that, it's almost it's almost again, I'm maybe just letting go of that ego or or the lenses through which I am seeing the world, or the map and being willing to look and just shift that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

I'm trying to think in my recent time about people not willing to grow. Or you know what? I guess in my own personal experience, the only thing that I can think of is whenever I get pushed because I'm not doing the growth. It's almost like if I become too apathetic, the world kind of just comes at you and then you respond to it. Sure. And that to me, whenever I become irritated or angry or or disagreeable like that, then that's usually a sign that it's like I'm not growing in some c capacity. So it's funny because I brought up that Nancy story, because I couldn't remember if we had met before or after this story, but I was in customer service. Right. And I remember it was a Saturday that I had the on call, and typically I took it so, you know, seriously. But this particular Saturday, I scheduled to help my son do some work demolishing a big old deck. And so, you know, and that was the same week as all that news in North Carolina, too, with all the remember all that rain that happened? Oh, yeah. And it just really just decimated that whole area. And uh, and so and and the work I did, it was nationwide. So I had customers all throughout the the whole area. And so, you know, I kind of listened and I couldn't empathize anymore because it's like that's just too much. I have too many customers all over the place. I can't empathize for everybody because I'd be eaten up, right? But you can you could collectively, I mean, you know that there was that energy there like that. And so there I was, me and my sons just tearing off this dick, and so all my testosterone was going, you know. And I'm not thinking I'm gonna get a phone call at all. But then I get this phone call, and it's uh it's a client in Canada, and she starts in about how this is gonna be the worst call that I get for the whole weekend. And it's because, you know, she scheduled everybody, and she's the owner of the company, even, but she scheduled everybody for this, I think it was a Canadian New Year's, and she just wanted to just unload on me. And it was like, it was not the right time, right? And I just gave it to her, like, Nancy, who the hell do you think you are? You know, and then she was blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I'm not listening to this. Click. And I just hung right the hell up. And then I went back to tearing everything apart, and you know, and then and I was like, oh shit. That's not good. Because I thought, you know, as a manager, when I used to uh be an operations manager, just like that's kind of a red flag, you know, you don't want to treat your customers that way, right? You know, right? So what was it? And that set me on the whole thing of trying to figure out, okay, why was I being this disagreeable? What was it about Nancy that was triggering me? Yes, you know, yes, and and then again, and I I don't know if it goes to what you're talking about, but it to me, it's almost like I don't understand why I have to be that way. Because I saw I was trying really hard to work on a problem and I wasn't going for help. And then that's what you you guys were friends already, you and Jessica were friends, right? And you'd had this therapy. And um, for years and years I'd I'd tried myself to just work through it, you know, mind over matter, mind over matter. And but you had a lot of really good ideas. You could articulate the things that I was doing that I was just doing blind, and then you could get me to like concentrate on how about here? How about we just stop right here? And then those things about Nancy, it was not even about Nancy.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Never is. It's never about Nancy. Right.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

And it was never about that situation, it was more about what was going on internally, right? And how maybe I did feel like there was some help that I could have been given to North Carolina people that I didn't and I wasn't. I was being apathetic. But in what way was I being apathetic? It's like, yeah, because you're not even doing what you should be doing. It's like, well, what should you be doing? Well, I don't know. But you should stop, meditate, and then go from there. Right. So so yeah. Can people grow? I don't know. Like I know that there's some people that they're gonna they're gonna stay the way they are. It's like a story that they want to repeat over and over. They don't want right, they don't want to overcome that story. Yeah. No, they don't want to overcome that. It's their identity. It's right. If they lose it, they lose themselves almost.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

So true. They've identified identified the puppet or the character that they're playing. And it was that same teaching. Who was it? Oh, it'll come to me later. But he was talking about, you know, how often then once we realize, you know, some of the things that we're talking about here, that it's all within, then we're like, oh, why did I why did it take so long? Why was I, why was I behaving in this way, or why was I going down this path? And it's because we needed to. We needed to just try try that on and see how it fit and play that out. And there's a the the word, the Jewish word of tikkun, there's a rectification that needed to happen. So I needed to play this character for a time to see how that fit with with my soul, and then then and then rectify that. So yeah. And so instead of beating ourselves up, I've done that before, where it's you know, why was I that way? Well, you because you needed to be that way for that time, you know, you don't want to stay in that, but you're you're rectifying or fixing something by playing that character for a while.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yeah, it's um it's it's weird because like I like I tell you all the time, I have this idea that everybody's on their own journey. And so I always feel like um you can't spiritually bypass this journey. No. And so, like when you have these moments like that, it's it's life getting you back on your your real soul's purpose. Right. In in whatever small way it can.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah, yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

But you know, it's funny though, when you look at somebody else and say, well, are they not capable of growth anymore? I always wonder, well, I always think about that whole thing about everybody having their own path. So it's like maybe they're gonna have to repeat that. Yeah. That's their stone of Sisyphus. That's the one that they're gonna have to keep going up the hill with, right, you know, over and over. And it really isn't for us to say, you know, why do you keep struggling with that?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Like, here, here's the easy way. But that's not your stone. Her stone is that. Right. I'm reminded of that story that Jordan Peterson likes to tell about that client that he had where she just had this miserable life, right? But she was so helpful to the people around her, you know. And that was the life she had to leave. That was her suffering, you know. And and I think that's that's what it is sometimes. You gotta find your thing. It's not gonna be perfect. There isn't what I have learned is that through trying to control outcomes or control anything, right, is that you really don't have any control except for, you know, the frame that you have about it. And then once you if you do a lot of work on that, then you realize that that that it's all just an illusion. All of it is is really just an illusion.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

I can say that, but in r you know, in real life, like living that out is hard because especially when we're hurting, it feels so distinct and real. It's like, what? Yeah. Yeah. But also, too, uh what's the balance when we're saying, okay, this person has their own journey, um, you know, their own stone to roll up a hill. But is that excusing or tolerating patterns in others that if somebody's abusive, it I don't know, I'm not articulating my thought exactly. Saying that somebody's got their own pathway and their own journey, which is true. But then, yeah, what if you're married to somebody that is abusive or a parent excusing an adult child's behavior, or you know, a friend, a friend who's constantly abusing your boundaries, or you know.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Ooh. That's tough.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Or there's the reverse, you know somebody that's demanding accountability from everybody else, but then refusing to examine themselves. What does that actually look like between two people? Because we're in relationship with everything and everyone. We are whether we like it or not.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah, yeah, we are. And that's a really big question because uh, you know, lately I realized that in the beginning of my life, it was you know, for your family just to get acceptance from them. And then you step out into the adult world, and then it's your society. And then I don't know, it just now that you kind of we've seen the world and the institutions and how everything kind of did what it did. It was really just all of that was just a how everybody was thinking it was gonna work, but it really didn't have anything behind it for it to really work that way. Like uh just take the COVID and the vaccine and that whole thing, you know. That's like healthcare that went cuckoo. This idea of taking care of everybody, but then it just went crazy. And, you know, obviously there were people behind it that made that happen that way, but we were all ready to just fall for it. A lot of people were ready just to fall for it. But again, that's their, you know what? A lot of people still haven't said they're sorry for all the shit that they said to us about that. Remember when they called us grandma killers and people who still don't talk to us now because we still don't believe that the vaccine was what they say it is, and they're so into that mindset, the frame of healthcare is right, healthcare the way we're doing it is apparently the right way. Like they're really win, they're they're into it, right? I can't argue with them anymore, you know? So like just let them be. Yeah, let them have their ozympic and let them do their thing because they're going to, right? All of right, I mean, I'm not gonna stop it. Right, right. But but what I can do is just not give it any energy.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

You know, I don't have to give that any energy at all. And that and I I think that's what happened because first it was like my father and understanding it through his eyes, and then through my employer and through society's eyes. And then finally to understand that there was nothing outside of me that was hit, nothing outside of me was answering the question. Every time I would try something, well, is it more money? Nope. Because there's here's the that with more money. Well, is it bigger houses? Nope, here's that with bigger houses. Is it this for that? Nope, here's that. Right. It's always outside. And then at the very end, I saw, you know, where I was working and I really believed in what I was doing, but it was software for propane companies. And and I realized that we were just scaring them because they wanted more, and they felt like if if they didn't understand the software properly, they wouldn't get the more that they needed. And it was just a sick game, you know. It's just it was once I saw that, I couldn't unsee it. And then I started to work that way. And and of course, that's the way the work showed, and it was no good. But it was my time to go. See, I couldn't stay there. Yeah, right. So so I think everybody is capable of growth. I think it's it's gonna look different on everybody, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, and then how that impacts us. I mean, if it's others behaving in a way that is not aligned with the direction we're going, sometimes that just yeah, causes a rift and a split. That's we can't walk this path together, then I'm just thinking about in relationship. But sometimes you're forced into relationships, whether it's a work colleague or or family, although often today a lot of family don't talk to each other. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Well, I mean, I don't have any problem. Like if I needed to pick up the phone to call my parents, I suppose I s I could. I would love to, but I don't because it just upsets everybody. It's almost like kicking over a hive or something. Just the phone call itself and hello, and then it's like the bees start buzzing, and it's like, I don't even want to do that. I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

I just want to leave everybody to their own and let them figure it out. I am here for the people who are starting to see it.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Today during my meditations, I was thinking about Plato's Cave again, and it's like I'm getting out of the cave. That's kind of where I feel like I'm at. I'm just kind of getting myself out of the cave. And I see a lot of people with me that are understanding all what we've been told, and it's all bullshit, and we're helping each other get out of the cave. So that's what I feel like I'm really here to help people do. Because I was I was very encouraging in the 3D world in my prior life. As a manager, I would encourage and help build people and help run processes and things. But now in the second half of life, I think the soul has been so neglected for years. And now people need a place to go to where the soul has refuge. And that's what I hope I can do with Chronicles of Pablo. So if you need to, you can reach out to info at chronicles of Pablo.com. And um yeah, I mean, I'm just a working class guy that kind of, you know, like I'm saying, I'm getting out of Plato's cave so you know, we can help each other. Right. So wherever you're on, you know, sometimes it's real simple. Like you talk about growth. Um, I remember one time when I realized that, because I wanted so badly to just be a a truck driver. I saw that being a truck driver was a nice way to grow a family. I saw my father do it. Uh not my father, my grandfather. I saw him do it. I saw uh a friend of mine, his father, he did it. And I was like, I would love to do that. Build a house, have a wife, have children, and drive a truck and just, you know, deliver something every day. I don't know. Something like that. But um, you grow. You know, I did that for a while, and it's like, well, is that all there is to slinging cylinders and delivering the propane? And and then it's almost like you're if you're doing it right, then you realize that you're you're not really suited for that anymore, and it's time for to move on. You know?

unknown 23:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Or then maybe you are suited for it and you stay there. You figure out how to stay there. Sure. Okay. And that is your destiny.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

I mean, because again, I think it would have been way easier if I could have just been a truck driver. I would have liked that. But they made it so hard, you know, to just be a truck driver.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

What the system?

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Mm-hmm. The society. They people they frown upon truck drivers. Nobody wants to drive a truck. Hopefully things are turning around, you know, with the tradies and trades are becoming more popular. But uh, you know, for the most part, anybody who actually does the real heavy lifting in our society, they don't really get the acknowledgement they they should.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

You know?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Of course not.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Yeah. Everybody else with the high degrees and all that, they they get the all the kudos, and it's like the the guy who actually, you know, delivers the stuff or puts the gas in the tank.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Essential workers.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yeah, those people, you guys shit on them all the time, or we shit on them all the time. And you know, we probably shouldn't. And the thing is, is that why are those jobs treated that way? You know, Mike Rowe used to ask that question all the time with his dirty jobs, uh, whole take on things. And I I was with him on that. It's like, how come, how come people don't respect people that are, you know, cleaning your bathroom, right? You know, your your restroom, your toilets. It's like, why are they any different from you? They're they are you. Right. And I think that's the cool thing. It's if you keep doing the work, you realize that there is no separateness. You are them.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Maybe that's what the problem is. People are afraid of that. They don't want to be that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, especially if it's something that they dislike.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

Yeah, if they think it's unlikable. Right. They don't see the beauty in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

But I think we mentioned this last week or it came up that it's if I'm bothered by something in another person, it is because I recognize it within myself. And it might not look the same or be at that same degree, but it's it's there. It resides within all of us. And yeah, that's that divine connection of all living things with source. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

I think going back to what you're talking about with the people and the growth and is if it is is a possible. I think it's the boundaries. I think you it your boundaries, I think, is what's important because again, you don't have really any control over them.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Oh, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

I mean, you can offer things and all that, but it's it's not gonna it really might not even help. It might aggravate. Uh but mostly it's a boundary. Like, okay, when you behave this way, yeah, I'm out. I will not tolerate that. Right. As soon as I hear this or as soon as this behavior happens, I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

I'm gonna, I don't need to accept that from you or anybody. Right. And it's true. Yeah. I mean, because ultimately, and the thing that people I think are really afraid of is when you go down that road, you will find yourself totally alone and in solitude. And that's what I think scares people a lot. Because they're they'll be like, well, I need everybody, don't I? And that the thing is, is that, and I think what you what ultimately what you have to come to a conclusion is, is that you are gonna die and you're gonna do it alone. Very true. And you better go ahead and start coming to terms with that because it's gonna happen. It could happen today, sure, you know, and that's what I think everybody's afraid of. They're afraid of losing their identity, losing who they think they are. And it's like you won't know the kingdom um until you do that. You have to lose that.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

That's an ego death. Yeah. Not that we need to kill our egos. Our egos serve a purpose and have kept us alive, but yeah, we don't need to be slaves to it either.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah. And again, it's easy to demand growth from others while refusing to do it ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Absolutely. I was the worst about that.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

And that's where that I I I know just in the collective consciousness with the Michael Jackson movie coming out. I'm seeing more posts about it, but yeah, that song Man in the Mirror has been in my head all.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

It's a great, great song.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Yeah. That is it. It's you make a better world. Make a better world, you start with you.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

It's you, baby. Yeah. And we talked about uh Jess and I, we talked about this a lot about um that saying about the kingdom of heaven is right in front of you. If you just can see it, and that's that is the fact. Right. Because most of the time you can't see the heaven that's right in front of you because of the frame and identity that you've built that kind of just makes it ugly. But if you were to well, yeah, okay. So I'm gonna do a little plug for my son's mushrooms. If you were to take a uh a healthy dose of psychedelic mush mushrooms, uh what what do you call it? A uh what kind of dose is it called? Uh rose dose. Um, I think that that's like a calibration to joy. I think if I could make it a simple thing to that, it's a calibration of joy because through life, you know, it just sucks joy out of you. Every little interaction, it seems like it's like the the negotiation is give me some of your joy, you know. And over time it's just gone. And you have the calibration for joy is the the bar is low. But then you take those mushrooms, and then all of a sudden it's a recalibration of joy, and you realize like you're like this nine-year-old kid again with just joy in your heart, you know, and you're like, holy crap, it's like this all the time. Yeah, but it's me and my stupid mind things that keep me from it. Yeah, it's our own blocks, it's our own blocks, it's my own story. Yeah, the stories I'm a Mexican, stories I'm a truck driver, stories like I'm a dumbass, or whatever the stories are. Yeah, they're just stories and they're not you.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

So true. 100%. It's not our true essence. They're just the stories we tell ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

And it's all because you wanted to come down here and dance. You wanted the whole time space dance.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Remember a couple of years ago, my brother sent me a message as we just text back and forth, and he's like, Do you think this world is a battleground or a playground? And I'm like, you know, I I used to think it was a battleground. I'm here to do battle and against the forces of evil. I'm like, no, the more I'm living, the more I'm like, no, this is a playground. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

I was supposed to have a good time. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Exactly. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

So you're gonna go see the movie?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

I would like to, yeah. Yeah. This is the year of movies for me. It's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Well, think there's the one we saw uh Project Hill Mary, that was really good. So I think I mean, I like Michael Jackson. I used to try to emulate all those moves back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Nice. So I think, you know, as we continue on this week, just remembering, stop asking, like, what's wrong and or what's wrong with me or what's wrong with them, but look at okay, what am I refusing to see clearly in myself and not through shame or blame?

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Right. Just but let that be the let that be how you know something's going on.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

When you feel it, it's like a bell.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

And then sit with it. Yes, let that bell ring, yeah, and then find out where that comes from.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

How does somebody get in touch with you if they want to talk more about it?

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I am on social media, um, Instagram and YouTube primarily. And uh my business is Expansive Life Solutions, and I'm a Leva Muna therapist and coach, and I'm learning hypnosis too. Very good. Yeah. So yeah, my business again is Expansive Life Solutions. And you can find me on Instagram, YouTube, Vanessa Ramsey. Yeah. Thanks, Pablo.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Thanks, Vanessa.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah. All right, have a good week.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Good night.