Is Life A Battleground Or Playground?

Is life meant to be a playground or a battleground?

In this episode of Seeing What’s Here, Pablo and Vanessa explore the tension between freedom and responsibility, play and discipline, desire and self-mastery. Pablo argues that life is meant to be experienced fully and joyfully, while Vanessa wrestles with the idea that not every impulse should be followed simply because it exists.

Together they dive into real-world examples, challenging questions, and the delicate balance between honoring our humanity and considering the impact of our choices on ourselves and others. Is discomfort always a sign we’re off track? Can structure actually create more freedom? And where is the line between living fully and avoiding responsibility?

Join us for an honest conversation about what it means to be truly alive without losing ourselves, or each other, in the process.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You ever notice how fast your mind goes to it's them, they're the problem, they're difficult, they don't get it. And it feels completely true and justified. But if you slow that moment down just a little, something important is underneath. And most of us don't stay long enough to see it. That moment right here, that's what this podcast is about. Seeing what's here. Welcome. Okay, good morning, Pablo.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

Hey Vanessa, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:24

I'm doing great. How are you?

SPEAKER_05 0:26

Really, really good. We just uh finished doing the bike trail yesterday. Yes. It was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

That sounded like some serious play.

SPEAKER_05 0:33

Yes, a lot of fun. Absolutely. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Play and joy.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

Yes. And what are we going to talk about today?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Well, what was coming up? I think, you know, just in the recent weeks, too. And then based on what we were discussing last week, that concept of battleground of life or or the playground of life.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah. And I saw this post online recently that said, if it doesn't bring you joy, stop doing it. And at first I was thinking, like, oh yeah, yeah, that resonates. And then I thought, yeah, but if everybody lived that way.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

What would that look like?

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Yeah, exactly. Yes. So that's just what I've been ruminating on. And you know, I I definitely do not think that life is this battleground. I think that's an old Christian paradigm that, you know, I can quote all that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places, yada yada, yada. And I don't subscribe to that. Yeah, that's a little much.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:36

Yeah. Um, but that I mean, that's where you started. And I think that's where I mean, I was raised Roman Catholic, kind of. Kind of. We didn't go to church. But my mom was, you know, Catholic or was raised Catholic, and I guess kind of pushed the well, didn't push the God thing, but had it available for us like that. Didn't go to church anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

I think too, but you know, based off of our conversation last week, you know, um feeling alive and and living aligned. And you talked a lot about desires and you know, but the more again that I was considering what you were saying later, the more I was thinking, okay, but if we all just followed our desires, are how are we no better than animals than than my cats or my chickens that you know is there Yeah, okay, so you know, chasing stimulation versus yes, feeling alive and man, this is really deep.

SPEAKER_05 2:36

Maybe that's why I'm having trouble showing a piece of it.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Yeah, no worries.

SPEAKER_05 2:40

Let me just start with this, okay, because we were talking about work and play. Yes. Right? Work and play, work and play. And yeah, that's really been a problem. People don't like to work on in, you know, on mass. I've never really seen people who enjoy doing menial things like digging or dishwashing, or you know, for the most part, people spend a lot of their time trying to get out of that, you know, any kind of work. But for whatever reason, and maybe that's why I was so angry at that last podcast, because it's like, man, we put work first all the time, you know. And I was curious as to why we did that, because I just had an experience where play showed me that well, and then it in retrospect, I was like, dude, every time you you played, it was actually better. And then all of a sudden your mind got a hold of it and and you thought it was mind that was doing it. And it was actually just when you were playing that it was doing the best stuff, you know. But you gotta you got in front of yourself again, you know. You gotta, you gotta, you know, you made you made issues there where there shouldn't have been any, and it was from mind. So, but anyway, going back to work and play, that's I mean, because this is really, really deep. This is kind of cornerstone to the way I I I why I'm the way I am the way I am, I guess. You know, we talked about this the other morning. What makes a person the way they are? I saw early on that it looked like you were gonna have to work. So it's like, okay, work's gonna have to happen. Right. So gotta make money. Right, right. I saw no example of anybody that really got out of it. I in all my life, and everywhere I looked, everyone was working. So then I said to myself, okay, if I'm gonna have to work, why do I have to work someplace that's ugly? Why couldn't I work someplace that's beautiful? Or like, why couldn't I work someplace that, you know, where people play, you know? And so that the first idea came to me when uh we were, I was a meter reader in Fort Worth, and I loved it. That was like my favorite job, walking all over uh the metropolitan or actually it was south and north Fort Worth, all over there, and I loved it. I would walk all the time, it would put me in meditative states. I loved the job. Right. And then uh uh Jessica took me to uh Florida uh or we went with her parents this one uh uh summer. And that's when I put it together, it's like, well, we were on the beach and we're you know, Panama City, and I was like, well, they have meter readers here, you know? So what's I mean, why don't I just come here and read meters and I'll be next to the beach?

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:21

So that was the kernel of the of the idea of like, why why are we why are we working so hard to stay in certain places? You know, like what is it about the place that keeps us there? So all that work, I mean, that's a lot of work. Let me fast forward to this morning. Yeah, because like I have a my cousin visiting from Texas, and um we share uh we love Chuck Mangioni's Feel So Good. And so I put it on this morning to go pick them up, and I was thinking about that song, Feel So Good, and I remember I just got this image, it came to me of uh when I moved my family to the Caribbean, and um I was sitting on the beach and it was like sunset, and I was by myself. Jessica and the boys hadn't gotten there yet, and so I was there by myself, and I just finished, you know, um, some um some cheap rum. I I think it was I can't remember, some spiced rum. And then there's this shitty can of beer. It was Amsterdam, it was a blue can, it was really bad. But, you know, I was finishing that beer and I was I had my iPod on and I was listening to songs and Feel Feel So Good came on. And and I was there alone, I thought, you know, the beach was kind of secluded and and the sun was going down, and it just overtook me. Something about the song just overcame me. And I just got up and I just started dancing right there on the beach all by myself. I I didn't give a shit if who was watching, and then um, and then uh this uh Jamaican couple comes out of the thing, they see me, and I make eyes at them, and I'm just like my first sense is like embarrassment, right? But their energy was so cool, you know, and they just looked at me like, yeah, man, just that's that's the thing to go with, you know. It's the water, it's the waves, it's the feeling. Yeah, it feels so good, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_05 7:19

And it just changed just like that. Well, not just like that. It took time to understand that, you know, we put a lot of effort in efforting into our lives, thinking that, you know, mind over matter, we're gonna make this thing work. But man, the magic that happens if you just get out of the way, you know. So, same thing. We lived on the island for like five and a half years. It was wonderful. We learned a lot about ourselves. We learned a lot about America by not being in America, you know, and about our families and how we get along with our families, you know? And um, loneliness, we learned about loneliness and seclusion and learning to make new friends, everything you have to learn when you go to a new place. And so I don't know. I think there was a lot of value in doing things like that. Cause we did, I mean, we've moved quite a bit. Um, I think my son counted it one time and it was like he's been like in 16 or 20 different places, you know. Yeah. And uh, and that was rough. That was a sacrifice, you know. I think at one point he was living with his brother. Uh, we made him a bunk bed that he can sleep over his refrigerator in his little small apartment, you know. But these are the sacrifices we make to like live your own life properly, to set it up to where like if it is gonna be play, like if you are gonna want to set it up that way, then do it. This is your time to do it. This is your time in the time space field to get that shit done, whatever it is. So that's what I'm saying. I don't think, like in your original thing where you were saying, Well, what if everybody just did what they wanted? Well, you know, funny enough, I think if everybody was really connected to source, not yeah, not if they were doing it like because their dad told them or their mom told them or their brother, sister, or their friends. Right. They get it from like source. And it's it says, you know, whatever. It's not gonna be, well, it may be something like that. Who knows? Everybody needs a villain too, right? So maybe you need to be like stealing cars or whatever, you know? That's could be your game, dude, right? Like that's what you came down here to do.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I've heard that as a story, as a theory, but aren't we supposed to be here also to transcend and to grow and expand?

SPEAKER_05 9:48

I don't know. Maybe some of us, maybe some of us know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

And I know we're all in different parts of our journey, so right.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

That's the that's the main thing. So, like if everybody does do their thing, you know, I don't think it's I think that's it's gonna look like what it looks like, really. And I think the the only thing that'll go away is the suffering. You know?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and what you're describing is an aligned life, like what you were, you know, referencing last week, that with that alignment. If I am, you know, truly aligned with my higher soul, my higher self with source, then everything is a flow. And I've gotten myself out of the way. I've removed those blocks and those things that have been stuck inside of me to experience a life of that divine flow. And that's a beautiful thing. And so me, and maybe that's that was one of the aspects that I was considering over the week since our last podcast was you know, oh, if I just go and do whatever I want, then don't people get hurt along the way, you know. You've seen that maybe in you know, relationship betrayals and like w I was talking to Jessica about hero heroin abuse, you know.

SPEAKER_05 10:58

Like that's that would be something where, yeah, I mean, obviously that's not a good deal. Right, you know, right it's gonna just zap your life force and eventually you know, could just take it completely away. But I mean, you know, like if you look at it from the point point of view of like everybody came here to do their thing, I mean, that might be it. You know, sadly. I like I think of you know, well, people that we lost that were really talented that you know succumbed to all kinds of things that they needed for their so-called survival, you know. Amy Winehouse and um Jimi Hendrix. Good artists like that. But yeah, so I mean, uh everybody comes down here to do something, I think you have to have that time to do it. Because you know you're gonna make all these mistakes in the beginning. Because you don't know really what it is that you really want, even, right? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Most people don't, even you know, at our advanced ages.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

Well well, I mean, I think that's why we're here talking. Because at at our age now, yeah, we've seen how we listen to our parents and all the institutions and they're all broken. You know, they're all screeching to a halt. Everybody's like, okay, what the hell are we gonna do? It's like, well, I think you have everybody knows what they need to do, I think. Um I mean, yeah, I you're sure you're gonna have hedonists in that mix, right? I mean, you're gonna have to have them. But along with the hedonists that you have in those mix, you have other people in there that just want to be like good moms, good dads. Absolutely. I I've maintained that I think Jessica and I just always wanted a simple life, but just wanted to be somewhere where it was, you know, a little prettier than than uh most uh American subdivisions, you know? Life didn't have to be just um you know, cut and dry the way people are making it. Like you know what I'm saying? Like it's almost like you're signing up for hell almost by saying I want to set my life up like this and it's all by mind. And you didn't let any soul in there at all. And so then you're stuck doing all those things by mind.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

Right.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

And you don't have any help with that that other piece of you that if you would have just let soul lead you, then you can just get out of the way. Because all of if you set it up that way, then you have people there and others and energy and ancestors to facilitate your growth. I think. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Oh, thanks to your wife Jessica. I've been reading that book by Michael Singer, The Untethered Soul. That's his first book. And I'm completely going to butcher this, but that's what he's describing is you know, a lot of times most of us all think we have to live life in this certain way. And again, did it was it given to us by society or TV or whatever, you know, parents okay, life needs to look like this, or religious institutions, life needs to look this way, and I need to do these things, and then so I'm forcing. Yeah, and it it's I don't know if maybe that's the work that you're talking about to do. Like I have to, this has to be this way, yeah. Instead of being like, I surrender, yeah, yeah, let's go. And then let's do what's before me. I I love this. It's what he said is in the podcast I've been listening to. Just do what's before you with all your heart and soul. Oh, I love that. I know, right? I love that.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

So that's I don't know. That's what I've just been keeping in mind last week. Just do what's right in front of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:39

So yeah, when we got on the island, um that's what it was. We knew it was going to be a daily thing because that's all that's all life is. All life is is waking waking up in the morning, having your coffee and then taking on the day, whatever that means, right? So I signed up for a propane company on a on an island. And so, yeah, we had plenty of things to line up for the day. And then it just made it all more fun, more play.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

And I will have to say, I think the ancestors were very key in this. Like, I or like at least just had in them in my mindset. Because I I used to think about this a lot here at this in at this house, because when I look out here, I can see the dam. You know, if you look out the window, you can see the dam. And the dam, I believe, was built by all kinds of different race, races, and nationalities, you know. And I just imagine, you know, some Asian guy just taking a break, you know, sitting back, looking at this land that had no houses on it yet, right? And looking at that land thinking, fuck man, I wish I could get me a little piece right there. And then what I would do, and I would think, what would that dude do? You know? What would he do? And then that's where I'm coming up with the answer. It's like he's already done the damn building, he's already wished for something more, right? You know, so what would our working class rooted, you know, ancestors, what would they do? That's what I'm asking myself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:10

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Maybe a lot of us don't even allow ourselves to think that because we have this defined idea of what we shouldn't be doing.

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Right, right, right. Because everybody's afraid for the money aspect of it. Yeah. And they're afraid of like AI and stuff. And it's like I I would just I would suggest to everybody to ignore that. I mean, I can ignore it now because of the help. Thankfully, my father told me, you know, to try not to get in debt. And I always live below my my means. Right. And we always had a a plan of having a business of some sort. So we're in a pretty good place where I can take some time and work on this, you know. I know not too many other people have that um um opportunity, but I mean, it doesn't mean that you can't pick up anywhere. I mean, like when I decided propane, I had nothing. Like I had nothing really to my name when I decided um to to to do that. And I just thought it was just a good, like, everybody needs propane, right? So it was like mine figuring something out, and also knowing that propane companies can be mostly in countries, like in the country, uh, and then they're in rural areas, so they're away from things. So that was kind of a cool thing to find out too. Like I knew by choosing propane that a lot of my opportunities would be in places that we would want to live.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Right. See, right.

SPEAKER_05 17:36

So that was one of the things I originally thought too. That's why I chose propane too. Yes. Very 3D thinking, very mind thinking, but eventually it does place you amongst the people, and then that you start to see, will I grow here? Will I grow here? Yeah, yeah. And then I think you st you keep moving until you find a place that you can do that. You keep moving on until you do that. And then I don't think I think once you really realize what you are, what it is, right? You can look back and say, shit, I never needed to move in the first place. That is true.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:10

You know?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:11

Once you realize what you really are.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yes, yes, exactly. Because it doesn't matter where you move. Yeah, you are still you. Yeah. Wherever you go, there you are. Yeah. Yeah. No, and I I've I've thought that too. Although, I mean, with us wanting to move, it it was something I think all of our souls needed to do. My, my husband's and my sons. Um it w it wasn't based on fear or anything from COVID. It really was a desire to expand, and we couldn't we felt like we couldn't expand where we were. Could we have though, again, consciously now?

SPEAKER_05 18:48

I feel like, yeah, I'm I think I could, but isn't it funny that you needed that like move in the 3D world to feel that to to work through that?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, and and yeah, both my son and husband and their lives and mine too have flourished, you know. Didn't doesn't mean that it wasn't challenging. It was and it's different ways, but yeah, and it's worth the sacrifice though, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:11

When you look back, you're like, that's why it's so good now because we sacrificed for that.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah, but that sounds like work, like sacrifice, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:20

It does, right? But I mean, I don't know. I I would have to give my mom and dad so much kudos because man, they they could make just a regular day of working your ass off so much fun, you know.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

It could be just as simple as, yeah, let's um just you know, rituals, routines, um, getting started in the morning. And and I didn't know that that's what we were doing, but we were worshiping the sun. We get up there with our coffee and we'd see that sun come up, and we're just all our eyes are getting whatever, and we're looking at the work up you know ahead of us, and we're just like, okay, here's what we're gonna do today, and this and that, and then and then we get on it and we just do it, and then yeah, we used to you remember the the chickens we used to do? Oh yeah, man, that was so cool. My dad and my uncle, um Ben, they built a little pit barbecue, you know, where we lived, and and where we lived, it was all clay soil, so the soil around it was just clay. Right. So basically it was a clay oven. They made a tandori without even knowing. And they had a down pat. Uh it was somewhere around two or three in the afternoon. They'd they'd had log split already, but they'd they'd make the fire, they split a chicken, put it in there, cover it up, and then later that afternoon we'd be eating some chicken after a hard day's work. We had an outdoor shower so we could all take showers afterwards, you know. So all that work we knew you had to make play. Same thing when I drove a propane truck. It's like, yeah, I mean, why would you want to make a drudgery? One of the reasons I chose propane was because, well, I didn't like it when the industrial commercial side, but when I went to the country and started delivering to people, neighbors, you know, they'd come out with like food or coffee. You want to drink? You know, you know, whatever. Everybody was nice, and then it's like, well, that's like that's nice. This is not work. I mean, it's work, but it's not work. See?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

And so you're connecting with humans. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:25

And so then when I saw that I needed to step up, like, you know, you're in your 30s and you've got children and you've got, you know, bills to pay. I was like, well, I can be a manager because I've done all the I've learned how to do the work and make it fun. So why don't I run a place and show them how if they put policies or whatever, they can all have fun while they do their regular job. You know? Right. Yeah. That was a cornerstone. Because yeah, people work sucks. Mm-hmm. It does. It can. But if you have the frame that I'm here for a reason. And so I get real focused on why what's so what is so important. Right. And just get real laser focused on that. And yeah, I don't think it has anything to do with houses, money, cars. It has to do with your soul's journey. That's the main thing. Like you getting through and knowing what you are, finding out what you are.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:23

Understanding what you are.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Right. Well, yeah, bringing it back to seeing what's here inside of us. It is not the external experiences or things. It's yeah, if I feel like, well, I need something, why? Why, why do I feel I need it? Okay, well, I want to feel because if I have when I have that thing, I will feel happy. Correct. But maybe you will for a little while and then then you have to pay that car off or a mortgage or whatever it is. But the happiness, I mean, yeah, true happiness is generated within. It is not from external experiences or circumstances or people. You know, you think, oh, if I have that perfect companion, then I'll be happy. But are you really already happy? Because if you're not, they're not gonna make you happy.

SPEAKER_05 23:16

Correct. Yeah. You gotta make yourself happy first. Yeah. Love yourself first.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah. But it all comes back to those unmet needs that we have in our lives.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

I think that's where that's where you get started because back when I didn't know anything, it's like all you have are your desires. All you have, like you know, in the very, very, very beginning, I wanted to be a singer-songwriter, you know. And so that's where you start. You start with something like that, but then you realize, okay, I have to, you know, adjust, change, adapt. But you still have dreams, you still have, you know, aspirations.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with those at all. Just know that, okay, that thing or whatever is not what is going to bring me the happiness. Just that if I'm happy to get you there. Yes, yeah, it can be.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

You're following your desire, is the vehicle, I think.

unknown 24:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

What desires have actually led you away from yourself or deeper into yourself? That's a great question. Something that I've been thinking about.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Ooh, that's a good question. I don't know. It may not be for right now, but it's just something I've been pondering too.

SPEAKER_05 24:24

It's weird, but I mean, don't you learn a lot from your mistakes too?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Oh, absolutely, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 24:31

We got it wrong. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for a long time I thought about, you know, how cool it would be to write a hit song and be famous for writing a hit song. And and like if that didn't happen, life would be over, type of you know, mentality. But it wasn't until it wasn't until I got here to this this particular house where I was in suffering when Jessica just said, Don't you have everything you dream for? And I thought about a particular song I wrote and and uh how I w sing and play those lyrics all the time and I see them out this window now. And I'm just like Wow. I just had to get out of my my own way. It wasn't me.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yeah. Yeah, the analytical mind. I I think that's where all the efforting and the work comes in from us. Trying to think our way through life and instead of play. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:38

Instead of just get out of the way and get out of your way. Set it up, set your whole game up to where your work is play. Jessica does the bookmobile. Yeah, yeah. So that's how playful is that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

It is.

SPEAKER_05 25:53

And yeah, we're doing the podcast, and then hopefully, you know, Chronicles. Well, you know, I thought about this. I think what Chronicles is, Chronicles of Pablo is just it's my time where I'm helping all the everything that I've learned from all the different people that touch my life, I'm now gonna I'm gonna pay back and like I'm giving it to you, I'm giving it to Jess. Anybody who comes into this circle for this community, that's what's gonna happen. You know? Yeah, that's what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I think the question is, are you actually enjoying your life? Am I and and if if we're not, then what what are we gonna do about it?

SPEAKER_05 26:34

Yeah, right. I mean, how do you know that it well, I don't know. Sometimes life is hard and you gotta sit through it, right? You have to sit down.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah, and then of course, and there's challenges, but and I think again, those challenges are opportunities for us.

SPEAKER_05 26:46

Oh my god, that's right. We were thinking about the movie Life is Beautiful. Oh holy crap, have you seen that movie?

SPEAKER_01 26:53

It's been a long time, but I yeah, I will I will cry when I watch it again.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

Yes, that right there. I know that's how you do life, that's how you do it. Yeah, it's a game.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, that's all that's it.

SPEAKER_04 27:10

Make it a game.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yeah, I hadn't made that connection to that movie, but sums it up beautifully. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:16

Yeah, because they didn't even have a choice of work or play. They had to work, and they were imprisoned. So it was really a soul's thing that was going on there. And it's like, okay, you have a choice. Yeah, like Victor Frankel, you know.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Yeah, so meaning.

SPEAKER_05 27:29

Yeah, you've got a choice here. What are you gonna do? You can really make this shitty for yourself, or you can make it a game.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Yeah. Yeah. And I think people then get secretly resentful because they've built their lives around obligation versus that joy. I mean, I know I have, I speak for myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:58

Well, I know. I mean that isn't that their story? Isn't that the part of the journey? Part of their journey.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah, I don't I don't think life is meant to be a prison sentence.

SPEAKER_05 28:11

No.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

But I don't think it's endless indulgence either.

SPEAKER_05 28:17

Well, yeah, you're right. I mean, because I mean, um well, maybe that's it. Maybe it was a measurement of like I knew that there was a part of me that I just wanted a party, man. No doubt. But I knew that there was a there was a I had to make choices everything, I had to negotiate because well, okay, here's a simple one. Um I I loved weed from the beginning. I smoked weed uh when I was you know 16, and then again when I was with uh Nick Miles, I'm gonna blow him in. Uh uh when I was like in my 20s. And I remember in my 20s, I was like, I smoked and I was like, oh shit, this shit's good. I like this. But then I thought, I'm not gonna get fuck all done, dude. I'm not gonna get shit done. So I I made a deal with myself then. It's so funny. I remember making this deal. I was like, okay, this is really good, but I can't do this until I'm way more settled. Like I need to know that I'm gonna be fine before I can let myself go into whatever area this plant wants to take me. I gotta make sure I'm gonna be okay. So yeah, yeah. I waited until later in life, until I was in the Caribbean and I started started smoking some then. And again, I had so much guilt about it, you know. But then, you know, the plant helps you with that. And over time, you know, I don't I don't really give it too much uh whatever. But yeah.

unknown 29:49

Right.

SPEAKER_05 29:50

Now I don't even worry about it. Yeah. It's like you know, weed's weed, and it's you know, um, at my age now, what I see about you know, substances is like you know, if you're using them to escape, that's a problem, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

But if it makes you a better person, you know, what's that?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

And then there's time and place, like, you know, people shitting all over alcohol, you know, right now. It's like, but but wait a minute. You're having a nice dinner. Yeah. You just finished the trail. You're cold as hell. Yeah. You want a glass of red wine? You know, some dinner with you know with that. After a long, hard day's work, what do you want? Cold beer. Yeah, you know? So these are things that are rituals that are part of play. Right. You know, that uh yeah, obviously, when I think when you're missing something, you start filling it with more of that stuff. But it's right. Really, what you need is more life stuff.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Right.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

You know, set your game up a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:46

Challenge yourself with something, or I don't know. Again, it's you're here to play. What did you want to come down here to do? Do you remember? Right, right. What was it? Have you done it yet?

SPEAKER_00 30:59

I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_05 31:01

Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, and here's the other thing, too, because yeah, you're talking about the irresponsibility of like if you just follow your desires and stuff. Well, what about the irresponsibility of not following your shadow or integrating the shadow? Always hiding from the thing that you're most afraid of.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

And so you make everybody's world around you shit because you think that life has to be a certain way because you're afraid of your own shadow.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_05 31:25

So a lot of this moving around, I you see yourself in relationships. You've said that to me a lot. You error back.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, I I saw that a lot. I saw that people protect themselves with their their identities and how they feel that they who they are is that identity that they build. Right. The mask. Mm-hmm. The mask. And it's like, you know, that's not really who you are. Nope. It's just the mask that you use to get through the world.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah. So just like these clothes and who I am. Right, right, right. Yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah. So maybe it is that people aren't so exhausted from work, but abandoning themselves, you know, and they're, you know, they've built this life, but abandoned themselves in it, and hence the source of misery is the building's cracking. Building agrees. Yes. All right. Well, the building agrees. I think that's a wrap. Cool.

SPEAKER_05 32:22

This is a really good one, Vanessa.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Excellent.

SPEAKER_05 32:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:25

Thank you a lot. Of course. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

And if people want to reach you, Pablo, how do they do that?

SPEAKER_05 32:29

Uh you can reach me at info at chronicles of Pablo.com. And if they want to reach you, Vanessa, how do they get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah, I'm on uh social media platforms YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and you can also reach me at expansivelife solutions.com. All right. See you next time. Thanks. All right. Cheers.