Episode 10: Grief. What Are We actually Grieving?

Grief touches every one of us, yet most of us are never taught how to be with it. In this episode, we explore what grief really is, why loss can feel so disorienting, and what happens when we stop trying to rush past our pain. Through personal reflections on the death of a dear friend, we discuss love, absence, memory, and the challenge of staying present with what is here.

If you're navigating loss, missing someone you love, or simply trying to make sense of the emotions that come with change, this conversation is an invitation to slow down, listen, and meet yourself with compassion.

To connect with Pablo, click on the link below to follow his Substack. or email him at info@chroniclesofpablo.com 

https://substack.com/@pablo375324

To connect with Vanessa, you can message her on social media platforms: 

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealvanessaramsey?igsh=ZGQzNGZ5cmNlcXE5&utm_source=qr @therealvanessaramsey

YouTube https://youtube.com/@therealvanessaramsey?si=6sYZTk40ZffRq0u-

TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@expansive.life0?_r=1&_t=ZP-96y7a0MYNSh

Visit her website at https://expansivelifesolutions.com

#SeeingWhatsHere #Grief #Loss #Healing #Awareness #Presence #PodcastConversation

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Okay, here we are. Here we are on our on our first live stream. Yeah, how are you? I'm I'm doing well overall. Yeah. Um This is a special uh a special live stream, isn't it? It is because it's number 10. So, you know, hey, we made it to the double digits. And very cool. Yeah, I just want to welcome any viewers that are watching live or that will watch this recording later. And yeah, just again, welcome you to our podcast slash live stream today, seeing what's here. Yeah. So yeah, today's a little different, obviously. We decided to do the live stream because I'm in my hometown and yeah, my closest or one of my closest friends died. And I, you know, I'm here for the funeral, and then um just extended my stay to see some friends and family. So yeah, I think that leads us into our topic, Pablo, of you know, I was thinking death, but that death is the event, you know, and it as if our focus is seeing what's here. It's really more about the the grief and you know why why grief feels so disorienting.

unknown 1:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

And what what exactly are we grieving, you know, when somebody dies?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Right, right, right. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for putting this together, Vanessa. Um, and thank you for the the links I uh we could watch Julie's funeral. That was the first remote funeral that I'd attended, and uh it was still very poignant and uh uh and and sincere. Um yeah, yeah, and uh and it's it's been a while since I've been to a funeral. Uh prior to that, uh I think we were trying to nail it down, and I think it was um I I attended a funeral for an employee uh when I was living in the Cayman Islands. So it'd been quite a few years, uh 16 or so. But um but yeah, I think it it does give us a chance to uh to talk about uh yeah, grief. Because yeah, I think it's obvious everybody's afraid of death, and that could be uh its own its own uh uh subject. Grief, what happens afterwards? Yeah, that's the big one. That's the big one. You know, it's like um yeah, how how do you process that? Like, you know, what is it about you know, it feels a particular way, and it's awful, you know, especially if it's somebody really close that was um, you know, um yeah, I guess depending on the closest, yeah. Uh if they were super close, I mean it's it can be devastating, right? You know, uh the grief, disabilitating, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. How how did how did it go there with everyone?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yeah, so first of all, it was um, yeah, what you know, when we use the word funeral, I think maybe a lot of us again have you know preconceived ideas or and again based on our experience of what a funeral is or the feel of it or whatever. But this was I would I am calling it a ceremony. It was not a funeral, it was not a memorial. That was my my sense. Um it was yeah, very ceremonial, very sacred. And I, you know, just kudos to recompose in Seattle. Um, that's um the I don't want to call it a funeral home, but this is yeah, and end of like a compositorium, it is, it is, yeah, yeah. Um so yeah, that was yeah, Julie's cho choice for you know what to have done with her body afterwards. And um, but the way that they handled it to the the even the building itself, it was just so much about life and nature and that whole cycle. The cycle. Yeah, that yeah, the circle of life and death. And I I really felt that from them. Yeah, yeah. Um, so it was really beautiful. Um, I didn't, I really didn't know what to expect, but um yeah, yeah, just very it was very sacred. And um yeah, even when we thanked the staff when we left, you know, one of the staff members was just saying, you know, I I this is an honor and I do take this as a very sacred, you know, role that I I'm serving here. So it's yeah, it it was very beautiful. And but yeah, the grief was um I didn't, yeah, I didn't know what to expect because I think we've discussed this before where my life personally has really not been touched by death, which is a blessing, but of course it's still this is we we we live and we die, so it's the reality. So even though I have have not been touched by death up until this point, you know, here we are, and um at least with somebody who with whom I've been close. So um yeah how how are you? How are you taking it? I'm better today, but yeah, the the day um that we um had the ceremony for for her was difficult. And I think too, it's um I didn't know what to expect. Like I said, like you know, I walked into her home because I was carpooling with with family, and um it was it really hit me seeing like her chair and her corner and her pens or journals, and but her presence isn't there, you know. So that kind of hit me. And and then just other other people's grief. That was uh that was interesting to me, just as to observe how other people are grieving or trying to really hold it in and hold it together. And um yeah, so there was a lot of energy going on um during that time. So yeah, I feel like I really uh when I got home, it was like somebody had just pulled the plug on my energy, and I was just completely drained and um yeah, then uh just took some time to to reset myself. So I feel better. Yeah, I mean, I think as an empathetic person too, I was really picking up a lot of a lot of other people's energy and grief that comes with that. So yeah, for sure. It was absolutely yeah, different, very uh, yeah, very different. And um yeah, that sudden absence, I think, is what's interesting. And then being in my hometown, like I was driving around to different places yesterday um to meet some other people. And I'm like, oh, I remember when Julie had her birthday there. Oh, I remember when we did this together, and I'm like, that was another like, whoa, yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, so those just yeah, then those unexpected, you know, moments where the these memories come up, and yeah. Um yeah, grief, it it doesn't ask permission either. It just is a ride. It just is, yeah, just is here. It's like why do you think we we think why do you think we spend so much energy trying not to feel it?

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Probably because it hurts really, really, really bad.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

You know, the absence. Yeah. Um it hit it was early on for me. I was young, six or seven, and um, I'd lost my grandfather. And because of Julie's death, uh, you know, my my family was able to uh uh attend Julie's funeral uh remotely. And so we got to talk a little bit about, you know, that and it, you know, uh it happened when I was like I said, six or seven, and it was in the late 70s, he died of uh cancer. But um I I think what was you know, my takeaway because I was so young, you know, um, I don't have any particular memories except for except for the the absence. It's like you know, it's like a feeling you just won't forget, you know, because uh the way I tried to explain it to my family was like this. Um my grandfather was like um well he was the he was real cantankerous and he was kind of a character in his earlier years, but uh when he got older, as you know, he he you know, he was in his late 50s, um you know, he settled down a little bit, and he was just he was an he was a nice presence to be around. Like I was his grandson, and it was just um it was a very uh benevolent presence. Um and and all I remember was when he died, I was really freaked out because he was the only person that I knew that had that kind of feeling about him while I was near him, you know, and so when and when I knew and everybody said he was gone, I was like, oh shit, because like my parents, they were still, you know, they were young and they weren't present like that, and so um, so that was a real shock. And then at the same time, uh, I had a a classmate in kindergarten that he was killed in an awful um murder, uh, like an Amityville type murder thing that happened in our hometown in Blue Mountain, Texas. And uh and and I remember thinking, you know, when the teachers tell you, you know, like um, because you know, he's not there anymore. And it's like, okay, where is he? It's like, well, he's in heaven. And so I was like, okay, that's cool, because that's where they said my grandfather went, he's in heaven. So it's like I guess that kind of started me on this whole I needed to believe in heaven because because the the one benevolent fee, you know, person that I had that feeling for wasn't there anymore, and the world got real scary real fast. And and so yeah. Um dealing with grief. I mean, it was tough because like even as a kid, I didn't even have a chance to deal with it because I I I was having to deal with my mother losing her father, you know.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

So just like you said, uh those empathetic feelings, right? When you hear um somebody else crying and those deep, deep, deep wails, you know, that come from I don't even know where, but real deep in the guts. When people cry like that, it's just it does something to your nervous system, you know. It's just it really gets you right there. And it's like, what is that? You know? Yeah. So um I you know, I Vanessa, to be honest, I think it it probably did set me on a track of trying to understand uh things way earlier than I probably should have, you know. Um I know that my mom she found solace in um um music sending me to the care uh to to the little uh grocery store uh to with cigarette money to go get her some smokes. And so she would smoke and she would write in her spiral notebook and she would listen to music and cry a lot. And so that's the way you know my mom dealt with it. And I would just have to console her, you know, and and hug her and all that. But uh, but yeah, my my father he wasn't there for that, or I didn't I didn't feel his presence there for that. And um and so, you know, it it it kind of set me on a track because I knew that there was some there there with my grandfather that I went looking for in others, I think. Uh and and ultimately when I was doing that, I think ultimately I was trying to develop it in myself, you know, that just way of being that I don't know, it was just it was just a nice way of being that you felt comfortable around him, you know. And um he wasn't so judgmental. Maybe he was, but at least in the state that I was, yeah, I didn't feel any of that, you know. So it's very nervous system related, I think, you know. Um sorry. It's very nervous system related.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I know. What do you think happens when we resent grief?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

I think it's blocking energy. Sure, sure, because what I think what we end up doing is putting something in there else to cope with it, right? Um instead of really trying to deal with the the true grief. Um you and I before the the live stream started, we were talking about the work that we do um with the 11-minute therapy and how sometimes you realize that there's parts of yourself that you have to let go of. And that that can cause uh you know, grief, you know, that you didn't even realize that was, you know, gonna be there. But yeah, it's sad because it's like, yeah, that was um maybe that was a part of me or something that I really identified with. Yeah. And now that it's not gonna really be me. And and so there's a little sadness to that, a little grief attached to that.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Absolutely. I mean, even yeah, like you know, I identified as a mom and I don't feel that anymore with my children grown now. And that was that was a yeah, a grieving process, I think.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah. But I think there is something to be said about losing your special person, you know. That's um that's that's a really, really tough one. You know, I think about um the the second time it came into my life, uh, death came into my life. It was my it was my best friend's dad. We had become really good friends. He taught me how to work on my Grand Prix, and so we had become really good friends doing that. And he would tell me stories about growing up in the 50s in New York and I was trying to stay out of trouble, and and so we became really close. And I saw his relationship with his wife, Lorraine, you know, and uh and how he would. I mean, he was just again, I think he he he was working on that presence. I mean, I think he had that presence really, kind of like and uh, you know, because Lorraine would still giggle at his dumb jokes and they still had tremendous love for one another. And um, but I remember, you know, Matthew, my friend, he said, Yeah, yeah, dad's got cancer and you know some somewhere in his back, and I was like, ah, that sucks. And uh, and so yeah, I remember that uh he became terminal and on hospice, and then the day that uh Matthew called me, he was like, Hey man, you know, I think you need to come over and say goodbye. And I was like, Oh yeah, I I don't want to, but I I knew I might you know I wanted to say goodbye. And so I remember, you know, he was in the bed and and you know, obviously he wasn't doing that great, and but uh but I held his hand and I said goodbye. Lorraine was there at his side and we hugged and and then I left and went in the garage, we're drinking some beers in there, and then not just a I mean I don't even think it was a it wasn't that many minutes later, and I heard Lorraine just deep wail cry crying. And I was just like, oh and you know, right then I you know, my cope was probably the fact that I had Matthew there and I had a cold beer in my hand, and you know, I'm sure we cried a little bit and we hugged.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

But then it it didn't it didn't really hit me until later I was talking to Jessica and it was like holy crap, he meant a lot to me and he's not gonna be there anymore.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I won't be able to call him to help me work on my water pump that went out, or I won't be able to go over there and have some smokes with him and go to the beefers and have some coffee and talk to the truck drivers, and that ain't gonna happen no more. It it always happens, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, but yeah, this is and this is something that Julie's husband said when when I was leaving, you know, he's like the hole's just too big. And that that stuck with me because there is this hole, and so what you feel like you need to fill it with something, you know. Oh gosh, oh yeah. But there isn't nothing, nothing replaces that the energy, that person, that soul, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

It's a reminder of of the connection of the 3D and the field. In what way? Well, I mean, because when Julie was here, she was in the 3D, she was physical, she was able to call people and touch them and you know, talk to them, change their mind, not change their mind, cuss them out, whatever. She's 3D with us in the physical realm, time space. But also 5D, because you know, we talked about that a lot. Like, you know, there is something underlying all this, if it's not the same thing, that's the main thing, you know, because like if you listen to the Donald Hoffman's and the and the other people that are saying that if consciousness is a priori, then this matter thing, this is a this is a result of that. So the matter thing, the 3D thing is like it's a result of the consciousness thing. So so if that's the case, then then there was a reason for you know the whole you know, or any one of our experiences, right? The whole thing. Like to prove, like if it's not just the 3D, it's the 3D and the 5D. You're part of this 3D and the field all at once. And when you we when you leave us like that, that's when we know it. That's when we feel it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't think grief is is a problem to solve or something to fix. It just it just is.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

It just is. It just is.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

And maybe it's that that energy transfer. Maybe let's think of it this way, where you know, we had and still have love for that person, but that person is not here in in the 3D with us. So that love is it transfers into this other emotion uh we call grief. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Huh. Well, it's like it's you know, that that whatever that was that my grandfather shared with me, that I knew wasn't there just with my parents. I knew that it's there somewhere. You know, it's it's in, it's it's in, it's you know, it's in humanity, you know, the love of another person, you know, putting something above yourself, that kind of sentiment, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

I'll t I'll tell you though, it's a big deal because I think about it all the time that I believe that it's it got me on the it got me in the track of trying to find God. I really think that because I know as a I was a child when people would come to the door and ask if I would ride on that joy bus, you know, remember the little joy bus that would take you to church?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

I would take that bus, man, every time because you know, my father was so adamant that you know you were just worm dirt, and I knew no, because Kevin went to heaven, and that's where my grandpa is. And he's wrong, Dad. You're just wrong. I had to believe that in my heart in the beginning. And I went to church looking for that God that's gonna show me how he was wrong. I never found him like in regular Christianity. That's That's not where I found him. But if but it began the search. Yeah. It began the search. And then that's when it was just like, oh, okay. So it's not there. It wasn't in Christianity. That's not where I found God. It took a lot of searching, but you know, ultimately, yeah. I mean, he's he's all around.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. I know. I feel like too, you know, we want, especially the analytical mind wants to explain away and try to, you know, I don't know, deal, deal with this grief and maybe like skip ahead to just acceptance and this is what it is. And okay, let's get on with it. But maybe maybe the invitation is more to just simply stay with seeing again, seeing what's here. Well, what is here right now? Maybe it's just yeah, because what's what is saying with grief look like? Um, just I letting it come up, I guess. I mean, that's what I've been doing. Just if I need to let it come up. Sure. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Like even in my case, I think when we lose people like this, because I didn't get to know Julie too much. I only met her one time at your at your uh place, and and she was, you know, perfectly delightful. Um, I could tell that she was uh a formidable opponent. Like if uh if I ever had to go head to head with her, she would give me a you know uh a good fight. I I could tell that, you know. And um, but I could also hear like uh in all the eulogies, you know, I could I could see that as as well. And so so you know, when you tell me about how she had decided to to uh to end her life, the first part of me was kind of judgmental and was like, Well, that seems like very controlling, you know. So but then the more I sat with just you know that you know, as you sit there and you listen to the stories of this person, you know that that's just another version of you, and you got something to learn from this soul as well. What was it that you needed to learn from Julie? Is I asked what I asked myself. So, like my trigger was that she decided to do it herself, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

That I thought that that was a little arrogant, as a yeah, the medical ethical aid in dying.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you choose to do it yourself and and and you choose a day and all that. And I I really felt it was kind of arrogant, a little hubr hubristic. But you know, I sat with the grief for a little while and I just had a different question. I said, um, because you know, right now I'm I'm I'm very interested in my my wife's work in astrology, and um, because it's very fascinating how um the the the clockwork that's going on, and I was just like, I wonder, does anybody ever do like death charts? Like what was happening when somebody's and so that got Jessica on the hunt and she found some stuff out, and when she read some of the things, I was just well, it made me it made me cry because that's what you learn. Quit being so arrogant, you don't know so goddamn much. Everybody has their own path, all there to show us that.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Yes, I was just talking to my sister about that this morning again. I just keep coming back to that. Yeah, that well, a the more I learn, the less I know, and B, everybody has their own path. So stop, like you say, let's stop me, and I'll talk about myself, stop being so arrogant, yeah. And yeah, that helps, that helps a lot to just yeah, there is there's yeah, who am I to tell somebody this is the way and you just reflecting on this too, I I'm attributing Julie as the catalyst for my spiritual journey because when we first met uh and well, no, not when we first met, but as I got to know her and become a good friend with her, I'm like, wow, this human, she is an amazingly good person. Like she has has, I have to talk about her in the present tense, even though she's not in the 3D with us, such such a curiosity for people and with no judgment. And she was genuinely curious, and that just was like, wow. And she at that time was atheist, you know, and I at that time was Christian. And I'm like, how you are this amazing, good human. And I saw more genuineness in her than I did in the people and even in myself, as that call themselves Christian. And so I I attribute her to getting on the path of like, what is this about then? And when Julie's life was over by that time, you know, um, she she would not consider herself atheist. She was definitely on a spiritual journey where she's like, There is more to there is more than just this. There's there is a source somewhere. What it is, I don't know. But anyway, it's so it was so amazing to you to watch her her evolution. Um, yeah, as she she grew and changed as a human during that time that she had cancer. Oh boy, oh boy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

So just yeah, stay with the grief. We don't need to run from it, we don't need to suppress it.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

I don't think so. No, because it I mean, that isn't isn't that kind of the what makes it so freaking sweet, you know. Half the shit that we do, we do because we have some kind of reverence to somebody that died, you know, right? Like, or at least that's I I know that when I was younger, I I I I equated cigarettes to like my grandfather. Okay. I picked up a 15-year habit of smoking camel cigarettes. Thinking that maybe I'd find it there, you know. Yeah, so you know, just that that whole I I guess nostalgia of it, like uh, you know, it just reminds me that I I can be with him still if I get him get a cigarette, light it up, there he is with me if I need him, you know. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. He's still I I always feel like his presence is with me, you know. Right. I um he was so cornerstone to the to our family, and and and you know, uh I just think it helped to have him around. So I don't I don't know if I uh ever got over him, really. Um I don't know if that's really necess necessary. Um I don't know that we have to get over that, you know. I think Yeah, I mean, like uh, you know, not to shift gears, but I mean, really, if you start to think about this in a more like the quantum way that people are starting to think about it. Uh well, we talked about this before, uh the the telepathy tapes.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Oh yeah, those are interesting.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah, yeah. So the there's a field, right? And so these people don't really go away. How about that? So yeah, maybe they are with you more than you bel more than you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

For sure.

unknown 30:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Of course, I'd be I'd be careful with that though, because I also equated uh a lot of my drinking to my grandfather as well. Okay. And it was kind of a personality thing, and I always thought that you know, I just wanted to be able to integrate that into a life. You don't have to do that. You know, right. Again, it's like it's that to me now that I've kind of given up the booze like that, it was more of a complex than anything. Or maybe it was a crutch. It's like well, my grandfather drank. I guess maybe I'll drink too.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe it just the way to find a have a connection. I I thought of that with uh I had some hand lotion that Julie had recommended, and I was putting it on this morning. And so yeah, it's just that I maybe a connection to that person in some way, or a certain color, you know, that you know, Julie loves vibrant, vibrant pink. She'd probably really love this room.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

Exactly. There you go. That that was the synchronicity for that.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

There we go. Yeah. Yeah. So I I think just, you know, we don't we don't need to try to get past it. We don't need to get over it or comfort with platitudes that they're in a better place or everything happens for a reason. I no, not you know, it just is. We don't need to remove the pain. And yeah, maybe again, I like thinking of it as it's just this love that's transferred into a different emotion. And so just be with it. Yeah. Maybe simply to notice what's here today: sadness, love, anger, gratitude, memories, whatever is just present.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah. Yeah. You know, obviously at this funeral, I I didn't know too many people, but uh um it seemed like ever everybody was understanding and and all that. It's it's uh you know, other times when people die, it's not so understanding. Um so uh one of the other things I learned in death was uh just forgiveness too, you know. Um especially when I was younger and you had you held on to the grudges and things like that. But there was really there was no reason for that. So forgiveness is really nice too. Forgiving people for and forgiving yourself, I guess, for even having whatever, but I don't know. There's something about the grieving process that just reminds you that there is something to living, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yes, indeed.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Yeah, there's something to it, there's there's something to it, there's some there there, and it's deeper than just the material. Why it hurts so bad.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I think we're gonna wrap up, Pablo, because I have to go meet another person that I'm connecting with. So yeah, but if somebody would like to reach out and have a conversation with you, how will they do that?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah, email me at info at chronicles of Pablo.com. Wonderful. Thanks. And to get in touch with you, Vanessa, to do the level therapy.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Absolutely, yeah. I am on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, obviously, and TikTok. Um, and you can always send me a DM there or visit my website at expansivelife solutions.com. Yeah. All right. Well, we'll see you when I get back.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Okay, we'll see you. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

All right. Yeah. Thanks, Pablo. Bye.