The Problem With Heroes and Villains

Why are we so drawn to stories of heroes and villains? And what happens when we begin casting real people into those same roles?

In this episode of Seeing What's Here, Vanessa and Pablo explore our fascination with heroes, from blockbuster movies to everyday life, and how our minds naturally simplify complex people into "good guys" and "bad guys." Together, they examine why we need villains, what we gain by assigning blame, and how these stories can keep us from seeing ourselves and others clearly.

Join us as we challenge the narratives we create, explore the tension between accountability and compassion, and consider whether true freedom comes not from becoming the hero, but from letting go of the roles altogether.

Referenced YouTube video with Kyle Cease. https://youtu.be/ZzDbjESsYVA?si=GNlxTO7RNjlgv3I2

To connect with Pablo, click on the link below to follow his Substack. or email him at info@chroniclesofpablo.com 

https://substack.com/@pablo375324

To connect with Vanessa, you can message her on social media platforms: 

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@therealvanessaramsey

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Visit her website at https://expansivelifesolutions.com

#SeeingWhatsHere #HeroesAndVillains #SelfAwareness #InnerWork #EmotionalGrowth #PersonalDevelopment #ConsciousLiving #Relationships #Perspective #Mindset

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

You ever notice how fast your mind goes to it's them. They're the problem. They're the difficult ones. They don't get it. And it feels completely true and justified. But if you slow that moment down just a little, something important is underneath. Most of us don't stay long enough to see it. In that moment, right here, that's what this podcast is about. Welcome to Seeing What's Here. Hey Vanessa. Hi. Good morning, Pablo. How are you? I'm doing good. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. And I just want to take a minute to thank our listeners because we've gotten some really good feedback and questions lately about some of our episodes. And yeah, so just thanks for listening and being a part of this conversation. Absolutely. We obviously feel is very important. Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

It's fun. In fact, uh, our episode today, yeah, it's a continuation of our hero and villain.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

So what's happened that makes I mean, I don't remember, I just felt like there was so much more that we didn't touch on. Yeah, yeah. And so, like, I think I text you right after saying, we didn't even talk about the people that are too cool for school, you know, those kind of people, the beatniks, the hippies. Uh, or how about people who have different ways of looking at it? Gangsters, you know, they have totally different frames, you know, Amerta and all that stuff. So it's like, you know, you really set up, like when you say villain, those people they don't see themselves as as villains necessarily, right? Like a beatnik. Sure. You know, they're just gonna be what, driving around, thumbing it, you know, hopping trains and all that. But, you know, society looks down upon them, you know, doesn't really want them in society, kind of makes laws and everything to kind of push them out. Society just doesn't really make room for them. And so they just kind of they're the like a villain, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, what brought up uh what made you think about continuing on with the villain concept?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I was just having more conversations with we have with some other friends, and then my husband just talking about it more. There was, I think, just more depth.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

More there than you say, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah, yeah. So I kind of think that while well you brought it up in the episode last week. I mean, we were talking about villains mostly, but then also the heroes, okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

Yeah, well, I mean, like once you have one, you create the other, right? Or is it the other way around? Maybe like we started backwards? Like, is it the hero that is the first thing? And then once you create the hero, you have to have you have the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

That's the yin and yang, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

And then, I mean, here's the the cool thing though, is like in the gangster um idea, like that's taken a foothold in society now. Like, we like the anti-hero. We love Tony Soprano, we like um who's the guy from Breaking Bad? Um Walt. Walt, yeah. We love that idea of you know, the, you know, it's just anti-whate we thought was right. So, so what is that? So, you know what I'm saying? Like, an anti-hero, isn't that just a villain?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

So really it is just about the frame, just the frame, it's the lens. Because from Walt's perspective, or from Tony Soprano, I mean, they're not doing anything wrong. In their mind, they've figured it out. Like I'm doing this either for my family, or you know, well, I think at the end of Breaking Bad, he realizes, yeah, I was just doing that for me, you know, for myself and and all that. So, um, yeah, what is all that?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Why are we so obsessed with heroes? I mean, to begin with. I mean, I I just I'm so sick of all like the Marvel and Avenger and like the superheroes. I I don't know, and you know, the movies and shows and everything in society. We're just but oh, I I was bringing it up in a text with you. Are these are archetypes? And I'm new to the whole concept of archetypes and like how they've really influenced society and the culture. So, okay, here's these archetypes that we as humans need, we have this need to fill that that role somehow in.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

Well, yeah, don't don't you like um whenever like you're watching something like that, don't you feel like you're in it? Like that is you, and so you're like you're when you're sitting down to watch that so that way you can play out those things to see how you would feel being that character or whatever. So you know, and there's something in you that resonates with it or doesn't, right? You know?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah, yeah. I'm just yeah, reflecting. Did you ever see Breaking Bad? Only a few episodes. My son watched it. That'd be a weird one.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

I mean, that'd be actually kind of neat for you to watch because it was about a teacher that broke bad. Yeah, that he was a science teacher that decided that he was just gonna make methamphetamine. So, you know, and it was all just like for money and power. Um I mean, so I think we just like it because we know that that's us. We're here to play a story. And so we're just that's why we love movies, I think, and books and stories, is because we want to put ourselves in there and see where we are in the whole mix of things, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

We're trying to know ourselves through through the stories. You remember when you were younger, like you would used to role play, imagine, oh yeah, and then we'll go reenact scenes. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Yeah, yeah. And I think uh, I mean, I don't people don't do it outwardly, but I think in their head they still play those things out, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Good point. I had not thought about that in a long time.

SPEAKER_04 6:20

Yeah, yeah, the stories that I mean, and and again, we talk about that a lot just in other podcasts, how it's we're driven by the stories we tell ourselves. And so isn't it funny that we go through life like picking up these little pieces so we can kind of either find out about ourselves and it's like, oh, I feel like this is what I am.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:39

I mean, it obviously it changes over time. Like if you're in a growth spiral, you know, eventually you grow out of certain things and you can say, Well, that was really neat. I was way into such and such, you know, but then I kind of grew out of that and now I got into that because of that, or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

It's very it's to me, it's all fascinating because I I really think that there's a a um inside of everybody something that needs to come out, and so in their in their journey, in their soul's journey, uh, or in fact, the book uh Soul's Code talks about that. Like if you're confused about what your journey should be, um you can just look back on those key moments in your life that seem to have some weight to them, and then you can just kind of map them, connect the dots, yeah, and say, Oh, that's what I think I came down here for. Right, or whatever. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Do you think though as we as we do that, as we try to relate and figure ourselves out through stories and archetypes, does that impact or affect how we're viewing life and then other situations and I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

I think so. Absolutely. That's why I think it's really important what you feed your brain. Yeah. The music you're listening to in the background, all those kind of things. Because yeah, you're you're coloring your world with all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

Yeah. That's how you get the lens or the frame, I think. You start building it from something. And when you're a kid, it's your parents and you're just trying to fit into their world, and that that's their frame that you're trying to fit into. Yeah. But then, you know, depending on the household you grow up in, so like yours was pretty strict. They kept you in a Christian frame. But that has to have its challenges for sure. Because yeah, other people didn't have that. So some people um they maybe had a more curious upbringing where they were asked, or maybe the kids asked a lot of questions about existence, and then the parents were open enough to talk about all the different ways of looking at existence. Right. Which, you know, most Americans we don't have that. Yeah. You know, most of the time we just have the Christian upbringing. And so that's that used to be, well, we just talked about this before we got on camera. That was the way it seemed to be. Everybody seemed to be on the same page. We're all on the same page. Everybody seemed to have that same frame. I remember my father-in-law talking about how prior to the to to media coming out, places were all their own places, but then as media came out and TV and radio, it all became homogenized and we all started to get on these same pages, right? Which was really kind of weird because we're all individuals, you know? And so it was weird that we were a Christian nation, really. I thought we were just a nation that was, you know, founded by some Christians, but it was because they wanted no religion, they kind of wanted it to be open for the person to individuate, I think is what they really were going with that whole pursuit of happiness thing. I've gone from here.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

But oh no. Yeah. Or was it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

So, so yeah. Um what was my original where was I going with that? Help me out, babe.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

I think the stories, yeah. Help us make sense of the world. But then I the issue I think that comes in is that people don't necessarily always fit in the categories or you know, or the the roles that we place them in. They're never just they're never just the villain like what we were talking about earlier, you know? Like this one person that I've struggled with and and have a strong dislike for. Um, I noticed a window sticker in the car of this individual, and the window sticker stood for a very good cause. And I was like in my mind trying to rectify this, like, no, but you're this. You can't also then be. And I'm like, come on, Vanessa.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

Of course I can.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

We're absolutely yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

He's the hero is of his own story, you know, or the anti-hero. Right. Depending.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

So, yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Our minds prefer simplicity, but nothing is just one thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

And that's uh one of our viewers was was questioning what we were talking about last week in terms of paradoxes and holding two things, you know, to be equally true. But it comes all back right to to our lenses or the frames that we're through which we're viewing the world, right? I mean, because this person here absolutely is convinced that they are right and good and the hero, and this person's the villain. And from this perspective, it's completely opposite. Are both things true? Is there an objective truth to the situation?

SPEAKER_04 11:54

I you know, I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. And it depends, right? I think um depends on what, yeah. I well, it depends on your frame. It depends on how you see it ultimately. Because um, you know, like I hear uh from the telepathy tapes. Oh, yeah, the near-death experience thing, one of the common things that they all say happens is this uh life judgment. And so you uh are judged in front of I don't know what angel or whatever, but they go through and they're like, Okay, did you do all those things that you said you were gonna do when you came down here to do those things? And so really that's what you're judged on. So it's not so much about you being the villain to somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

In fact, I think a lot of ways that's why Christ compels you or asks for you to forgive, you know, in the Sermon on the Mount. You know, forgive others for their trespasses. Because they're gonna do their thing, you're gonna do your thing. Yeah, and those two paths may not be like like you're just gonna have to forgive them. It has nothing to do, like maybe they do have to do something to you. It's part of what has to happen for you to get through something or to learn something or to become enlightened about something. And so he has to do that or she has to do that, whatever. I think everybody has their role to play. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't know. I think a lot of people just don't do the heavy lifting of am I doing the right thing? Am I in the right place? Can I quiet my mind and get rid of all the distractions? Is this coming from a place of like source and individuation? Or is it coming from a bunch of noise from a bunch of people?

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

You know? Because I I'll tell you that in a lot of narcissistic relationships, and these are the people who like that you need a lot of validation. So, like these people are grandiose narcissists, and they've built this world and they they have this world and they know these people, and they exactly know how the world works and all this stuff, and they tell their children this is the way it is. You know, that frame can work. I mean, look at um Trump and all that. Trump and his it seems like royalty, like American royalty, right? So his ideas and his frame worked, you know. Um but, you know, is that like if you were an underling of Trump, do you necessarily need to be there? So like there's a lot of people that'll say, hell yeah, I freaking love working for him. And they've there's a bunch of people who had those kind of stories. Like Trump is the man, man. He's the guy, he's got this down. But then I'm sure there's people that just, you know, I'm sure they don't stay working for Trump very long. But I'm they work for him for a little bit and they say, This guy's a complete, total narcissist, vain, no connection to whatever I'm working on. And, you know, the thing is that organizations like Trump's would probably sniff those kind of people out pretty quick. Sure. And they're out. But that's the other thing, too. As a person, your own individual person, you can do that yourself. You don't need to wait for somebody to tell you that you're not part of the mix here. If you're quiet enough and you let source say, This is what needs to come out of me, if you're in the wrong place, you'll know. You'll feel like it's a short. Sure. You know, and you'll be like, okay, this something's not right. And then you can start working on that. Because, yeah, a lot of this time, you know, the hero villain thing, I think we talked about it a little bit before. Like when you know that you're working out of integrity and you're working on something, even it could be wrong. I mean, maybe because like in my world it was all mind and ego. Still, that is what I thought was was the thing, and so that's how I go forward. And so when I went that way, it does create enemies, obviously. Yeah, you know, you're gonna create those enemies. And I think in my in um I think you just have to know that, and you have to know that you're gonna have an enemy, and I think that's part of the the fun part of it, you know, the fun part of getting along down here in the 3D world because it's like there's no fun if you don't have the interaction. You know, there's no there there unless the relationship does something, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

I liked that teaching, I guess, that we were just listening to on YouTube. And what was the man's name?

SPEAKER_04 16:33

How's Cease?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 16:34

Yeah, that was a really good one.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

We should put it on our Yeah, put the link to it. It was really interesting in how he described how him and his wife who love each other very much and are best friends, and but then they play a get competitive game. And that's the the fun is that that challenge or that opposition. Correct. Which, yeah, I I I mean, okay, in that context, that just really made sense for me. I thought that was a good analogy, but then here we let's transfer that into life. Yeah. And then the moment I make somebody a villain, then what is that? You know, that automatically I it I become something else. What the hero or a victim?

SPEAKER_04 17:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Which is, I mean, the lens or the frame of duality in this realm, or in the 3D world as we call it. It's that's what is that's the reigning thing, right? Duality. But I know as I've learned from the Jewish perspective too, it's we're trying to get back to oneness. Yeah, that that Hebrew word echad, which is yeah, unity and oneness.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

And you know, so to get to that oneness, uh within yourself, I think you have to accept your shadow, your villain. That's what I think ha has to happen.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Isn't that what Jung calls individuation? Yeah. Okay. Okay, integrate. Integrate, yeah. And it's not about beating the ego down or cutting it out. Correct. And I think that was, you know, the Christian upbringing was like, okay, yeah, there's that. I don't remember, you know, what they refer to it as a sinful nature, and that you need to cut that out of your life instead of that.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

The one that we should all go to quickly is sex because everybody's struggling with that. Everyone is struggling with that. They market it. We don't even know the power that is really behind all that. Americans don't, I don't think. And uh yeah, that's a common one. So I think, yeah, people need to to wake up to that that you this is your go-around, and you don't have to listen to these people about those things necessarily anymore. They were totally wrong.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

You know? That's the cool thing about where we're I think that's why we're doing the podcast too, because we're trying to re get our foundation going to go forward, right? And it's like, so what worked in the past and what didn't work. And I would say that it was that whole idea of like where everybody thought the kingdom of heaven was, yeah, you know, they were wrong, weren't they? Everybody. My parents were wrong, my employers were wrong, the government was wrong, everybody was wrong. But that's okay. You just pick up where you left, yeah, you know, yeah. So we could sit there and say, because yeah, I do like to shit on boomers and how they really ruined everything.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Yeah, we had a good time about that over the weekend, didn't we?

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Yeah, they're totally a villain. But it's like, what part of that was in me? Absolutely. Well, shit, dude. I I remember my uh cousin Benny telling me the the time before last when he came over, he's like, Paul, I remember you always had the best toys. And I was like, This is in the 70s, right? I had the six million dollar man, I had the Merlin, you know, I had all the best toys. And uh I thought about it, I was like, you know, that's kind of the problem because we kind of went all materialistic and everybody's that's all about toys and all that stuff. And in reality, like I didn't even want toys, you know. In reality, all I wanted was my father's time, you know. But I can integrate that whole feeling of I grew up with nothing, right? Like this is my dad, right? I had nothing. My toys were fucking sticks and dirt. So when I get to the point where I can like allow my wife to go get you a toy, that makes me feel like a freaking king. Yeah, a king. Sure. So who's the villain? You know? Who's the villain? He just wanted to give his son a better life, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

What if nobody is the villain?

SPEAKER_04 21:03

Actually, I don't think anybody is the villain, ultimately, when it comes right down to it. I I really think that we're all come down here to play the game, and you're gonna be the villain in somebody's game, that's okay. Because you're gonna be a hero in somebody else's, maybe. Depends on how you're playing the game, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

If you're really coming down here and you're really getting into it, having a good time.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:25

Which I think is kind of part of it.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:29

What's at the other end of play?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

What's at the other end of it?

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Yeah, what's at the other end of play?

SPEAKER_00 21:37

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

I think it's God. Children do it all the time. They don't even have to be told.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

And they want to do it. They don't want Summers to End, remember? That was like your playground. Yeah. You had no constraints, no productivity. You were just you were given the Incarnation, this corpus to go out there and do a little dance.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Make a little love.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Get down tonight.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Love it. Do you think there's an aspect of okay? I'll go back to one of our viewers was asking about okay, how do you resolve this? You know, if somebody is painting you as the villain or you've painted somebody as the villain, what is the resolution? I think they were looking for a little bit more with that.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

I mean, I think if you're in the middle of your soul's journey and this is part of what you gotta do, I think you should spend some time thinking about it, you know, meditate, right? See where you are on this thing because I think uh like in the last podcast we talked about um there may be things that you do need to do to um uh because it's part of your it's it's within your control and and it's something that you can do that will actually ameliorate that that, you know, perhaps. But I mean you're not gonna help those people that can't be reached, right? So what do you do with that?

SPEAKER_00 23:16

So that's again just the frame that they are looking through at me or something.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

So it can be both so we can hold that both those things to be true, and but at the same time, not relax because we know that if they've got some of their there as the so-called villain, but I'm in a position where I actually can show show a shed a little light to say, oh, wait a minute, I see your point. Here's where you know this is and just shed a little light. Yeah, that's all you can do. Right. And then that should help. Maybe it won't, but again, we can't help help everybody. Yeah. And ultimately, you know, um this is how people are measured by merit, you know, because um in the 3D world. In the 3D world, yeah, we're measured by merit because you know, um the better you get at doing that with people, um, you know, people want you to go help with more of those situations, you know? Because getting along with one another is the that is the thing. That is the problem. Nobody wants to go to work usually because nobody likes their co-workers, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:28

You know?

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:29

And it becomes a drag every day. So, I mean not having fun. Yeah, you're not having any fun, you're not playing. Yeah. And you could make it that way. You don't have to make it so vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

Yeah. That's all.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Well, what about that situation? You had mentioned it last week. Okay, if somebody approaches you and is just like, you're a and you use the example of ugly, and you're just like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

But the viewer was like, okay, it's almost like you're do you just accept what somebody is saying is true?

SPEAKER_04 25:00

I I you know, I think, especially at my age, yes. I see the value in what Christ said about turning the other cheek. When somebody, you know, assaults you or you know, insults you like that, you know, what are they insulting? They're just insulting your ego, right?

unknown 25:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

And you're more than that. Yes. So then you can just, I mean, and that's their frame. It's like so if you already understand that, right. You could just say, yeah, I guess you're right. You know, them looking at you.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Okay, but you're validating them and they're wrong. But that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

I mean, I'll be able to still sleep at night, you know. It's not gonna hurt me to know that they think I'm ugly or that I've now, if if they accuse me of doing something wrong, like you know, false accusation, I mean, that's why we have, I think that's why we have that commandment of bearing false witness. Well, yeah, that's a big one. It's a big one. So, so you know, when when that is going on, that's a little bit different, bearing false false witness. Um, just calling somebody ugly, I mean, that's just right.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah, but if it's something that's you could, you know, hurt your integrity in the community or you know, within your position within the company you work for. Um, there might be more defensiveness involved in that.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

And you know, and it would in something like that, I'd probably want to know exactly who's saying it. Is it a group or is it you know one particular person? Right. And um, so like again, if this was not anything to do with my soul's journey, I would just ignore that person.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

But if I knew that this was part of like I knew like something in me is saying, This is one of those things where you need to face it, you need to go face to face, then you do that. You have to. You must. It's like your soul's telling you this is the showdown you have got to have. And so if that if that's the case, I'd have that person over and say, Hey, you're bearing false witness here because here's what I think is going on. And then that gives that person to say, Well, what here's the way I heard it, and say, Okay, no, no, no. This is and then it gets rectified or not, who knows? Yeah, but at least you confronted. Because I think the biggest problem with people is that they will not confront, they do not engage, and so their whole life passes before them, and they didn't uh grow, they didn't learn anything about themselves. Because what if the person sitting across from you actually has something of value to share? Sure. And you were that thing that they said, and you're like, oh, oh, I can I can address that. Yeah, you know, or maybe it's a blind spot, you still don't want to see it, but maybe your spouse says, Sweetie, yeah, there's some there there. Yeah, and it's hard to hear, you don't want to hear it, but it's like, okay, I gotta fix that. I really must address that because it's part of my journey.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

Especially if it keeps coming up. That's the one thing that I noticed in my life.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

That same person keeps showing up in your life.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah. Or the same archetype of that person. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

Oh, there he is again. Yeah. And you gotta just put the screws to you because you haven't dealt with something yet.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:27

Mind you of what you're here to do. Right, right. You decided to do something before you came down here. Are you doing it?

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Mm-hmm. Right. So I think reflecting on challenges and situations where we've painted somebody as the villain, and maybe question ourselves, why, you know, am I still trying to be the hero of my own story here? Hold on. In what ways am I, yeah, holding on to that, like you say. Yeah. Right. And then looking at the other person and maybe wondering, okay, what part, you know, am I not seeing their humanity? And like Jessica was saying earlier, we really don't know people. We don't at all. And we barely, if we're lucky, even know ourselves. So you know, am I not seeing their humanity and their frame? Right. Frames. Yeah. So it's not really about trying to play the hero or avoid being the villain. It's carry on on the soul's journey and seeing what's there. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. So if we stop dividing the world into heroes and villains, what would we see?

SPEAKER_04 29:46

Well, you know, that's funny because the world is 3D. And everybody evolves differently slowly. Yes. So I think the world is always going to be quite chaotic. Okay. It's, I mean, I don't think Or at least this reality, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. This Earth reality, I think, will always be quite chaotic. I think because you're going to have those people who want to do it their way, it's going to create a little chaos. It's going to create a little disharmony. But I think that's kind of the beauty of coming down here. This is the, this is the playground, you know. You know, you can't. How are you going to play uh Scarface if you don't have cocaine and you know guns and all that? You can't play that down here. You got to have all that stuff. And so then you gotta, I mean, what are you gonna do? You're gonna, you know, all those things. You gotta because it's it's not even in the cocaine and in the guns. It's in the it's in the story, right? You know, it's in the story and how you do the things. Yeah. And then at the other end of it, you see God. It's like, oh yeah, that's why I came down here. Because you're just a little piece of them. Wanted to come down and play. Mm-hmm. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Yeah. Oh, I absolutely I'm wrapping my brain around that. It keeps coming up. So yeah, I'm connecting with that. It's reminding me too, just what you said about um yeah, without without the antagonist, without the the struggle, the challenge. That was in the mate, the first Matrix movie, I think, where it's like they wrote the Matrix and it's perfect, and humans were like, uh-uh, this is fake. No. So they had to put in the human challenges and yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

The stuff that makes it human.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

All those uh contradictions.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

That makes it specifically your journey.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Like a fingerprint, right? It's all different.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

There we go. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

That was really good. Yeah, I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

I I enjoyed this very much. It was very fun. Yeah. So, Pablo, if somebody wanted to connect with you or had questions about any of these topics, yeah, they reach you.com.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

And we met doing this work, the Love of Minute Work. So if anybody wants to do that kind of work with you, how can they reach you?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Thanks for asking. Yeah. So I'm on all social media platforms. So you could send me a DM on whatever Instagram, TikTok, uh, YouTube, and you can also go to my website at expansivelifesolutions.com and see the things that I do and how I help others and yeah, continue on this journey and reflecting and seeing what's here.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

All right. Thanks. Yeah. Have a good one.