Why Does Productivity Feel So Personal?

What happens when you're forced to slow down?

This week, Pablo shares what it's been like navigating a painful hip injury that has kept him from doing work he loves. Vanessa reflects on why being questioned about her own productivity struck such a deep nerve, and why she finds herself judging both herself and others through the lens of "getting things done."

Is productivity simply about contributing? Or have we quietly turned it into a measure of human worth?

In this conversation, we explore the stories we tell about work, rest, laziness, identity, and the uncomfortable ways we evaluate ourselves and each other. Rather than offering easy answers, we invite you to notice the assumptions you've inherited about what makes a life meaningful.

Maybe your value was never meant to be measured by your output.

We'd love to hear your thoughts. When do you feel most valuable and why?

To connect with Pablo, click on the link below to follow his Substack. or email him at info@chroniclesofpablo.com 

https://substack.com/@pablo375324

To connect with Vanessa, you can message her on social media platforms: 

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealvanessaramsey?igsh=ZGQzNGZ5cmNlcXE5&utm_source=qr

@therealvanessaramsey

YouTube https://youtube.com/@therealvanessaramsey?si=6sYZTk40ZffRq0u-

TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@expansive.life0?_r=1&_t=ZP-96y7a0MYNSh

Visit her website at https://expansivelifesolutions.com

#SeeingWhatsHere #Productivity #SelfWorth #Identity #Rest #Purpose #PersonalGrowth #Mindset #SelfAwareness #HumanNature #ConsciousLiving #MeaningfulConversations

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

You ever notice how fast your mind goes to it's them, they're the problem, they're the difficult ones, or they just don't get it. And it feels completely true and justified. But if you slow that moment down just a little, something important is underneath the surface. And most of us don't stay long enough to see it. That moment right here, that's what this podcast is about. Welcome to seeing what's here.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Hey Vanessa.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Hi, how are you today?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I'm very, very good. Good.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Glad to hear.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Well, hanging in there. Yeah, so I just got a massage yesterday for that uh fall that I took roller skating. And uh I don't know if we said this on the last podcast, we may not have, but when the when the accident happened, um I was down. Like, you know, I I couldn't do anything. And um it and it was funny because um I was already in the state of mind of just trying to be anyway, uh, since December. Um I I think you and I talked about it. I don't know if we talked about it in podcasts before, but I was already trying to just be because um uh a lot of things had happened and uh it was in the winter, and I remember thinking, you know, we spent a lot of time doing. Doing is a really big thing. And uh for the first time in my life, I didn't have to. So I had driven my older son to Texas and I had had some time off to drive back and and I thought about that, like how there's a lot of being, uh there's a lot of doing that we do, not a lot of being. And so I kind of tried to see what is that like just to be and not do. But it was funny. I I kept doing, like I kept putting things on my list to do, like oh, I'm gonna do the uh I forgot what that's called, that little putty stuff for the old wood to do whatever. So I got that and I started scraping stuff and and then I got scaffolding and like so for all this talk about just being, I kept putting a bunch of stuff on the list. Like there was a lot of doing. And so when the accident happened and it just sat me on my ass, you know. Um I was like, maybe this is another sign that maybe there's not anything to do. Like all these things you keep doing, would you stop? Like it felt like the universe was just saying, Stop. I want you to stop. And I want you to just be. Damn it, quit, quit doing and just be for a second. So I was like, okay, so I I did stay off of it for a while, but man, I'll tell you, it did not feel good. There was a lot of things where um that came to the forefront where well for a man especially, like you get a lot of your worth, like what you think your worth, your value from things you do. Right. You know?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Right. Yeah, that was the question I was thinking, like, why is it so why is this idea of being productive so personal? So it's an identity, maybe. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

You had a question there that really was good. I think you should you should ask it straight up.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

What if if tomorrow you couldn't work anymore?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, who would you be? Who would you be? Who would you be? Okay. And so I sat there with that for a little bit. It took me back to when we started our coaching sessions together. Uh, there was one activity where it was, I think it was a hypnot, it was a I think it was a meditation where we you ask, where are you?

SPEAKER_02 3:40

I remember that. Okay, so your question was who who would you be?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

And uh I was like, actually, it's more like what would I be? And it would be lost. Yeah. Lost. Like in the where would you be? Yes. I would be lost. I'd be in a world where I didn't know right the next move, even.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah. I distinctly remember in that guided meditation, because I had just read a book where um this Jewish man who wrote this book was talking about when God was in the garden looking for Adam and Eve, although he knew where they were, when he called out to them, Ayekah, where are you? It wasn't a locality. It's like obviously God is everywhere is everywhere. So it was it was a question of going inwards and like like where are you literally? Like what happened to you internally.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

So yeah, anyway, so that was good.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

That is, yeah, that is where I got stuck. I mean, that is where I think um, well, I'll say this. It depends. Because, you know, um, I mean, well, uh the massage therapist uh that I was talking to yesterday, her husband had a really bad accident and shattered his whole um I can't remember which leg, but I think it was his right. But um, you know, he he had to sit there for seven months and be uh unproductive, like not be able to use that leg. But then later on in the conversation, she told me, you know, like he he got through it. He's an older guy, like in his 70s. He got through it, and the thing was is like, you know, he just finds it really important to teach. He was a teacher, you know, and had a lot of things still that he felt like he needed to do. And I was like, see, like like that suffering, you still there's there's some meaning to it because like there's something at the end of it anyway, like if I can get through this, I can get back to the thing that gives my life so much purpose. You know? But I guess I don't know, my um me and my cousin, I don't know, uh we're we're about the same we are the s uh the same age. We were born in 69. And uh I wonder, well, the other day we were talking, because you know, he's in between jobs. Andy had just had that heart attack, and he's getting you know through that. And and this new relationship that he's in, it's really cool because for the first time she's not she doesn't want him there for like doing necessarily. Although he wants to, like he wants to mow and do whatever. I think for the first time, I I think I don't know, like for the first time it's just him being there that's enough. But for him, he was talking to me about it, and and I was agreeing with him. It's like dude, isn't that weird? Like I feel like we should be doing stuff and doing things. Like I'm 50 something, I don't I'm not out of the game yet, right? There could be things I could be doing, you know. But but what is this feeling? Because we know well, like we both were talking about, like this bigger picture that we both see. And so we know that there's a a grander plan, I guess, but at the same time it's like, but still, you'd feel bad for not doing in the moment, like you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Right. Where do you think that comes from? I mean, school, parents, society, uh all of the above. Yeah, all of the above.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

It starts, yeah, it starts first with your parents and then sports, school promotion, girlfriends, wives. Right. Everybody has their expect expectation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

So is this idea, it's like I produce, therefore I matter, is the message that is ingrained in us. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Yeah. Especially in the 3D world, because not only is it producing, but it's producing well. Yeah, doing it very well and doing at top notch levels. Absolutely. It can get a little um well, it's man, that's kind of a bummer if you if you don't have the skill set yet or whatever. Could make you give up right away. But I don't know. I think I think it's a part of like what you have to do, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Well that's part of what's it. All of it.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Because you know, when we come down here to the forum, right? To the forum of time space, we don't get to just say because we know that, okay, because we know this is a thing of time and space, we're gonna play out this way.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

We don't ever do it that way, do we?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Well, because we don't know. Right. That's part of, I think, you know, we're here to figure out our soul's journey, right? Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

I believe that I think things like school, work, government, all those things are institutions we create. They're like games that we want to play because we put ourselves in those situations to where we can live out some of our life without necessarily putting our life in danger. We do it with movies, film, like film and TV.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Right, what you were talking about last week and play.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

But we really we do it at work too. Sure. If you think about it, like when we go to work and we have coworkers and stuff, I think even though we hate it and everybody hates work and everybody talks about getting out of it and all that, you know, like how it sucks and all that. I believe that you're there for a reason. Like there's a reason that you're in a particular position that you're in. Sure. And if you're really hating your life wherever it is, I would suggest take having a really deep look around because the answer is probably right in front of you. It's something that you don't want to address in yourself. You don't want to see it in your own self, you know?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

And that's what I'm saying. I think that's why we do the whole co-worker thing and have jobs and stuff, because then you know, what do we always talk about? Uh office politics and the water cooler conversations and shit like that. Some of it has to do with like the world outside of us, but then the juicy gossip comes in about so-and-so and so-and-so, or you know, they're seeing so-and-so, and you know, this person's doing that. Can you believe it? Because they're married and da-da-da. And and but like you're sitting there and you're watching it and listening and kind of vicariously living through that whole thing. Oh, yeah. Coming back to your wife and saying, Did you know that so-and-so and so-and-so were you know doing this? I mean, what what do you think? You know, and then it actually could maybe open up a conversation, you know, like because you don't know yourself. Right, right. How do you know yourself? Yeah, yeah. You think you know yourself because what you call yourself a teacher and all that, but then where was that from? You know, and you thought that was a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

It's just uh you're identifying with what you're doing, see? So there we go.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, yeah, maybe that's just the vehicle that got you the right where you needed to go, but then, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

So if a person appears, you know, from outward appearances as someone who is unproductive, why is it we will point the finger? You know, it could be internally. Oh, finger finger pointing memes this week. Oh gosh. We'll come back to that. Um but yeah, why is it then we label them as lazy?

unknown 11:18

I know.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

That's a again going it's almost digging at an identity instead of maybe like, okay, well, well, you know, I'm I'm I'm the personality type where I was called lazy quite a bit, you know. Why? Um probably because I was imaginative. Yeah. You know, and like I would just kind of go off in space and like staying focused on something like very, very productive, probably wasn't my strong suit at the time. I wonder if it still is. Right. But um, yeah, um, what was I saying?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Oh, just that why is it that we label someone as lazy or yeah, and we feel lazy. Well, that was that video that you sent me by Kyle C. That okay, so what laziness is basically rest, but with a judgment ascribed to it. So that was interesting to me because what my rabbis taught me is we're here to sweeten the judgment. Yeah. So that really yeah, that caught my attention quickly because I'm like, whoa, that's what's going on. It's ascribing a judgment.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah. It's very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Well, part of my problem too growing up is that I always wondered why we were doing half the shit we were doing, you know. That was that was always something that I was curious about, you know, because everybody thinks that what they're doing is so important, you know. And maybe it is, I don't know. But everybody thinks it is.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

And then I started to see, well, like some things are kind of corrupt. Enron, remember that? That was an old one.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

You know, and um well, and then uh in 2008, when they did that whole scam, you know, and they're continuing to do the scam, you know, it's just like so what is the point? You know, like you know it's all corrupted. So what is what are we doing here? Yeah, that's what would get me every time. In my personal life, I would be with my father working with him, and I would wonder, why are we doing so much? Why do you want so much from me? Because you you would he would really want more and more. And uh everybody does, right? My question would be, why? Why do you want so much? What is it?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

What is really again the underlying unmet need that the person has? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Because I would all I would often wonder, you know, like you're doing all this work, but then all this time's going by and it's just gonna slip you by.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

I yeah, that's been a real reality check, as I know it is probably for other people who have experienced death, but with the death of my friend, it was such a reminder, and and she said this before her passing to me, just like I am on this path alone. I I'm surrounded by my friends and family, but I am alone. You're alone. And I am all I am the one doing this by myself. By yourself, and you're not taking anything or anybody with you. So yeah, and my last visit home too. Then I went and had coffee with a friend, and there was a lot of talk from this friend about how well they've done financially and retirement and you know, the zeros in the bank account. And I did I walked away from the conversation just kind of feeling small and icky, like, okay, well, it started that, and I'm like, why? I'm that's great, good for you guys, wonderful. But it was that there's again that uh a judgment, and and it was just coming from within myself. So that's you know, it was my thing to process, and I did that that we were assigning zeros, you know, the ones and zeros to my lifetime of productivity. Yeah. Kind of what got me going on the whole thought after, you know, you sharing about your injury was um there was uh someone else in my life that was giving a judgment towards me in my level of productivity at a specific job, and I was so offended because I've always prided myself on being a very productive human being, and uh that bothered me for a good 24 hours. I'm like, man, and it's wasn't even something I really cared that much about, but I was just bothered.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

So yeah, I think in that case, though, you know, I have to remember she's in a position that she had to do that. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

No, it wasn't even personal, but it was there was something else that it oh I like the word Michael Singer uses, it disturbed it within me.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

And it wasn't I think you told me a little bit about this. I think it was annoying because again, I always wonder why the hell do we waste so much time doing the things we do? Because I think this time-space continuum, this is the time to do your thing. Yeah, so if you're wasting it doing dumb shit, yeah, whatever. So I think in in your case, like I think you were bothered because wasn't it just like a minute that you wanted more? It was some god-awful, crappy, yeah, yeah, very materialistic way of looking at time with somebody. Yes, yes, one more minute was gonna make the difference. Right. It's like you just you can't measure that minute like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Well, what I would rather have is somebody like you, with the presence that you have to come give me your time, you know? Those children, I mean, that's what they're gonna appreciate. Yeah, they don't care that it if it's one more moment.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Just the the time that you actually spend, I think, getting them in your field. Because that happens. I mean, you're physically there with them, but then you go away and you're in the they're in your field now.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

And you're praying for them, you're hoping for them, you're you're doing all those things in the background, you know. They may not see that, right? They won't see that, but that's the real work that you're doing. Yeah, that's the real work that we do.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

You know, and talking to Jess earlier before the podcast, she was giving that example of when she stopped being outwardly productive with things that were going on in her life because she was really doing some deep inner work and how that's I don't know, in our society, that's not what is necessarily valued or praised or noticed in any way.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

I mean, I could have deep inner work look like, it looks like sitting and meditating for 10 hours a day. It looks like taking walks for eight hours a day.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, journaling, processing, yeah, journaling, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, praying, how all of that, yeah. Right. And here's the thing, you know, at the end of doing all that, you do walk away wondering, yeah, why do we do the things we do? And then you realize, like, okay, so if this is a game of time space and you're coming down here to do a thing, then it it is kind of important what I do, isn't it? Isn't it? I can't just waste my time.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Right. And that's uh that was kind of something I was thinking of next is is productivity really the issue? Because productivity builds houses, builds companies, it runs schools, it raises children. So what is it that we're really getting at then? Is productivity really the issue?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

I don't think so. I think people love it when things produce. Sure. Yeah. Okay. You know, like you've got those fruit trees, and the anticipation is growing. I'm sure you're just like, I can't wait. One of these days, those fruit trees are just gonna have all the fruit, right? You know, right. And it's just gonna be wonderful. And it'll just produce and it'll be effortless because that's what the tree was designed to do.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

So I think that's it. We need to know ourselves enough to where we're not beating our head against the wall, you know?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

That that, you know, are we doing the right work? Like, are we in the right career, job, whatever?

SPEAKER_02 19:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Um, you know, um I used to think place was important, geography. I don't necessarily think that anymore, but hey, you're on your path. Yeah. If you think that moving to a new place is gonna do it, I've heard a lot of stories with that happen.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

You know?

SPEAKER_01 19:18

I think again it's it the the intention that matters.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah, the top.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

I I intend to move here and do this or be this, okay. Then you need to do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because even if it's at the 3D world, they reinvent themselves and then it gets them closer to understanding the as above, so below. Because that thing gets the older we get, it seems like it seems like that veil gets thinner. Right. And you can really understand, you know. Well, like in my case, I don't think that the accident was an accident. Right. You know, I think that the accident was a sign from the universe saying, I asked you to slow down.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah, yeah. So now you're gonna. Now I'm gonna I'm going to.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

So if your hip, God forbid, takes six months to heal, what would be the hardest for you in that whole situation?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, just all those things were uh um, you know, like um just even taking out the trash. Like that's my job. Right. I take out the trash. Yeah, and when I was on the crutches, I couldn't take out the trash. And that does not make a man feel good when he doesn't can't do those things that he's supposed to do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Well, I mean, I thought about Christopher Reeve. I know that's an old example, but he was Superman. Yeah. You know? Yeah. He was Superman.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

And I remember growing up, like he was a hero, and I thought, shit, there's nothing this guy can't do. But then he fell off a horse. Right. Broke his neck and he was quadriplegic.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

And it's like, wow. And then I wondered, you know, what does what does Superman do after that? Right. You know? And I think he had a wonderful life. I think him and his wife ended up doing all kinds of charities and things like that. So it I don't know. When I was doing my meditation today, I just kind of thought that, you know, it's energy anyway.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

You are, you know. Everything else.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

And even though this body may get too too old to where it can't do anything, it still has the energy. Right. And it still has the computer.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

It needs to go somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Mm-hmm. To make connections. Yeah. Like this is this connection here, I don't think, is a mistake at all. No. You know, what the work that we're going to be doing going forward is is uh incredible. Like, um, yeah, we just got that email from one of our listeners that uh on a podcast on grief. Yeah. And so hopefully we're gonna be able to to talk about some of those things as you you guys email because we'll discuss them back here. And and we do the same thing, like we we start talking about you know what's important here and what's really here, you know, like what's really here that we really want to see. Yeah, um it's just it's um I think you have to be mindful of it because it doesn't go away. I can't just tell myself it's okay, Paul. You don't have to take out the trash, just sit down and I'm still gonna be okay, everything's still gonna. Be okay. I can't just talk myself off the ledge like that. It's almost like um this may be the heavy lifting that we're talking about when it's the meditation, getting to really understand where I am. Yeah. Because I think, like I said, you are energy. So I think it will, if you're quiet enough, it'll find its conduit. Yeah. And then it won't be, it won't be work again. Yeah. It won't be well, like I was I've I felt the last career I had in customer service and software support. It felt very efforted. Like, you know, I had to talk myself into it every day. I had to talk myself into I used to be a propane truck driver, so isn't it something I get to talk to all these guys out in their propane trucks, you know, because I have this experience. And so I had to walk through all these things. It was like this identity that I had to put on just to get through a day.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

And then it was just starting to not fit. It just and obviously, like the soul is gonna, he's gonna protest. It's not gonna stay. I mean, it won't. You know, so either something will happen. Right. And that's what I'm saying. The body gives up too. Like if you keep pushing it and you keep pushing these uh things that that the soul's journey or your soul's path is like saying, no, no, no, no. Your body will just shut down the flu, um, anything. Yeah, an accident, sure to sit inflammation on your ass for a good however long until you get right. Right. Or get back on track. Because I don't know what right is, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

And I think what's coming up is this difference between, you know, contribution, productivity, and then worth, you know, and and society lumps it all together. But I think there's there's a difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Yeah. Well, I was just on the internet and uh um there's that thing called fire. I can't remember what it stands for, but it's a financial thing where these people, you know, they see the game.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

So they get really focused on finding a job that pays, you know, a good amount, but then they live way below their means. Like, I don't even what know what the program is, but they just work this program. Okay. Like they take on all this work, they live way below their means, like just sack lunches or whatever, and they invest. It's a bunch of investing, and they invest a certain way and all that. Because they figure out what they want at the very end, yeah, and then that way they can live off the interest, you know, so that everybody does their their uh you know what they're gonna need to live and they do their math and then they go for it. And so I've been seeing all these people where they they nail it and they get it, and it's such a non-event uh because it what you realize is that these are daily habits. So then one day from the next, there's no difference. Okay when he actually hit the number, not that wasn't a big deal because he saw it when he hit that first time and then just he did the the math and was like, okay, so you see that see that little time? That's it's gonna be the same thing over here. Right. I just have to be consistent, I have to stay on track. And so they did it, and then they're there, and then they're like, is that all there is to making a million dollars or you know, whatever the thing was? They're still lost. All that, because they thought all their eggs in the basket was the money and the lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

And then they get it. Right. The money and the lifestyle. Yeah, and then they're like, Buck, okay, is this it? This wasn't it. There's there's they're like, I don't know what to do next. I have no clue. Because now, part of what Jessica and I were talking about earlier was um, I think that those people want to do that anyway. Like their personalities, yeah, they it would have lended themselves to that anyway. They would have wanted to do that, just to prove they could, those kind of people. But that's what I'm saying. Isn't that the that way with everything we do? And then it's not until we really like dig deep to find out what really gives us meaning. Right, right. And then that's the thing that that's that's where I think the true value comes from. I think because yeah, I'm not a rich person, but I think But you are in many ways.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

And same thing. You know, I wouldn't I wouldn't say that you're like Donald Trump wealthy, but you know, I did it really well. Yes, we do, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 26:34

No. Yeah. Well, again, yeah, how do how do we define wealth today? Right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yeah, yeah. Boy, oh boy.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

And on a side note, uh, because of I was talking about my cousin Benny and his new girlfriend, and me and Jessica and our new relationship, you know, this is one of the things, like this is this is me falling down, but I am gonna get older. I'm not gonna, you know, things are gonna start breaking down at some point. It's not gonna be so pretty at the very end, right? Maybe, maybe not. You know, I can try to help as much as I can, but you know, the reality is is you may have to deal with some of that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

You know?

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Very true.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

And and are you less of a soul because you can't do certain things.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Right, right. I think when, you know, just all of this coming up in the past week too, and also realizing my judgment towards people that I have looked at and been like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

That, you know, again, I you know, examining the judgment that comes within me, but is that frustration coming from am I seeing somebody and saying, you know, there's wasted potential there?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Or I I think that's what you're saying yourself, right? You're projecting that.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Very true. Yeah, yeah. Very true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

I mean, that's when I look back when I thought my oh my mom or dad call me lazy.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah, now that I can look back, it's like, whoa, wait a minute. It was just they're they were afraid of the same thing that was in them.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

Within them, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

And the funny thing is, is that um I don't I think you should just know yourself. You know? Some people are just type A, go get it done, kind of kind of people. Yeah. And some others aren't. They're more creative, they're more imaginative, they like to sit around and think things through and do things slowly. It's like there's nothing wrong with that. Right. You know? And this life, I mean, it becomes richer, you know, when you slow down and and do those things with that kind of intention.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Do you think society allows uh men in particular to rest?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

No.

unknown 28:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

It it feels bad.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Like I'll get on my porch, you know, and I'll start doing my meditations, you know, and then I'll see the world, you know, just going. Oh yeah. And I and I it's not and maybe this is coming from within, but I just feel like as people are going by, they're like, what is that dude doing? You know, like why does he get to just sit there and meditate and just sit there for an hour, you know? But I don't know. I wanted to kind of. There was a guy on the island, I called him the Boddentown Buddha.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Because every time I'd go to Bodentown, uh the the Cayman Islands is this one long island as you go through Bodentown's like kind of in the middle. And every time I'd go through Boddentown, this old companion, or he wasn't really that old, he was kind of middle-aged. He was big though, like he was a big dude, big thighs, big calves, big feet, big head, just big dude. That's why I call him Buddha. He's looked like a little Buddha. And he would sit on this picnic bench and just sit there and just be. And I would just drive by and I'd be like, you know what? I would like to be that dude. Just to sit there and just watch everything and just be.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Yeah. Just be. I'd had no clue what he did. I don't know how he made a living, but the dude just sat there. That's all he did. Wow. And I I was actually quite envious because I was like, what does it take to be able to do that? Yeah. To just sit and be.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Right. I know. I can't remember who said this quote. So if somebody knows, drop it in the comments. But we're human beings, not human doings. Yeah. But yet we define ourselves and identify ourselves by what we do.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Yeah, yeah. What is that thing that the Christians used to say all the time? Uh, idle hands do the devil's work.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Maybe that's part of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Could be.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah. Well, I was raised in a Christian community.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Try to make that connection, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah. And they make themselves busy, and I often wondered why. And I do believe, I'm still on the sex thing and the play thing. I believe that it's because they never knew their sexuality properly. And they're just distracting themselves to no end with everything except for the thing that would probably make them both happy. Yeah. You know? But no, let's have some NFL football.

unknown 31:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Let's go drink somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Good topic for another podcast.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Again, nothing wrong with NFL football, if that's your thing. But again.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

As humans, we're I don't think we're here just to produce because we, you know, are creators in in that you know, small sense, small c creator. To you know, we're here to connect, to rest, to observe. And yeah, just the way our society is structured. It's they want it to be quantifiable and measurable. I don't know. Maybe that's the whole science mindset too.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Well, and maybe it's just a matter of where you're like um that's only in one world that you're talking about. Like that lady asking you about your productivity. That's in that 3D world, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Because in the 5D world or in the world where those things aren't measured like that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Right. No, I get that, but I still find myself judging people from time to time.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

I think it's from us. I think it was just hard. I think I don't know if it's an American thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Because yeah, I mean, you were because if if you were not the top guy as a top guy, you were always trained to help people bring them up. You know, like when I was a drum major, you know, you you were just trying to get all your marchers to get on the same page, and then you would work with other marchers that you know didn't know how to do the steps. And then same thing with a manager, like when I got into management, same thing. You're just trying to bring up people to their level of expertise, you know. Bring them, let them expand their potential, like whatever they can do. If all they can do is drive a truck, cool. Like show them all the best things about that. Right. But then if you see that potential for them to be a manager and then like to be able to resolve diff, you know, differences between customers and employees and things like that, that's a different skill set, you know, and and that's something that I believe like you you've come down here to do something, right? So there is that part of it. So there's there is that thing where you're signing up for this work for some reason and you are getting all these um challenges sent your way, you know. So I think this is just another one. Whenever you don't feel productive, I think it's one of those life challenges that it's like life is asking you, yeah, did you ever have to be or do you have to be?

SPEAKER_01 33:48

It's a good question, yeah. And I think if we can look at nature as an example, which I always think is a good example, I mean, nature has its cycles and seasons too, and so do we as humans, right? So why can't we stress? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we I think at society expect humans to be at this peak efficiency every single day of the year. From now until retirement or whatever. Yeah. I wonder if that's why you know, and I've just heard this statistic. I don't know how true it is, but oftentimes when people retire and then they don't have any other and it may not be something to do, but some type of contribution or value that they're giving, then they die very quickly after that.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

So oh yeah. This happened to my father and my father-in-law. They both retired from it's funny, it was in Fort Worth, Texas. One retired from the cam plant, one retired from the where they made the beer. That's how Jessica and I got together. Light beer from Miller. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

But anyway Behind the school building.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

So they um they retired, and yeah, they didn't have anything planned. Right. And it's funny when they're still alive. Well, yeah, okay. They're still alive. Yeah, but there was a transition. They they've struggled through that whole um well, because yeah, you get very regimented in what makes you a man, what makes you that person that you identified with. And so all of a sudden, you don't have to get up at four o'clock in the morning anymore. Right. You don't have to do the the night shift anymore, you know? Uh all of a sudden nobody's calling you to go do whatever anymore. Those the phones stopped ringing, and now you're just sitting at home with nothing to do.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yeah. Uh you went through that when you start working too. Like you were like, I'm still expecting the phone to ring, and it's not.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Right, right. So there's a lot of you get a lot of your worth from being needed and all that. Sure. So I think there's I think there's value in before you answer that question yourself to sit with it and be uncomfortable with it for a while.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Don't answer it so quickly. Don't and then, you know, the answer should bubble up. The answer will come up.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Oh, yeah. You know, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

You know, if you're not doing anything terrible to other people and you're just being yourself, then you're not like being a drain to anybody. As soon as as soon as the uh opportunity presents itself, I believe you'll know and then you'll engage, and then it won't be effort. It'll be it'll just be effortless action.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yes, yes, I like that. Inspired action. Inspired action, yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Right. So where it's not car before the horse. It's not like I'm going to do all this so then I can do this. It's like no. Right. Just be. Right. And do what's in front of you. Enjoy it to the best and engage in it in the most, because that's probably all you get.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Do what is before you with all your heart and soul and with joy. Michael Singer. Yes. Uh it's been right in front of me recently. Yeah.

unknown 37:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

That's it. And if you don't like what you're doing, ask yourself why. Yeah. Ask yourself, what is it? Like, like we say, see on what's here.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

If you don't like it, why? What is it? Do you is it because like is it a reputational thing? Like you feel like you do like what you do, but because everybody else doesn't think that that's such a great thing, you feel bad about it? Well, that's just a frame thing, right? Just you know, you just need to change your frame, ignore the dipshit friends, and then all of a sudden you'll be happier. That's heaven on earth.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

And all you had to do is just change your frame. But if you're right, if your frame is one way and then you're working in a place where they're not that way, then yeah, maybe you need to get out and go work somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

So put the put that energy towards something that is more aligned with your values.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Exactly. Yeah. That's why I stopped teaching. And particularly too. I always told myself, if I get to the point where I am not coming to school and loving it every day, get out. Right. These are lives that you're affecting. And come to school, Grumpy. That's not cool. Oh no, it's probably stayed a few years too long, but yeah, that's true. Aligned work. Yeah. When you're when you're excited about something and wanting to create, then it doesn't feel like work. And you're not judging it on productivity or time. That's another construct that I've just been thinking about too. We always break things up into time. Like a big question I get, well, how much do you charge per hour? Like, that's not what this work is. It's not like an hourly thing. It's again, you know, here's here's the goal that the client may want. And so that's what we're going towards. Right. Um, same thing, I don't know, and like with work and projects. It's I I'd rather see, yeah, um exchange of energy, which is what I call payment based on that.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

You're absolutely right. Because um I think I I had a little issue with that too. Because I'm I've never done anything with that. Oh, when you first started with me? With you, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I was like, wait a minute, why why am I doing this? Yeah, yeah. Because I've done this myself so many times. Why can't I just do it myself again? But anyway, I realized I could use my HSA money.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

And so I was like, fuck it, I want to give it a shot. You know? Especially because after I met you, after Jessica introduced me to you, I was like, hmm, okay, I'll I'll try this. You know, you had that protocol that you were using, and I was like, okay, we'll try it. Because the block was I didn't think I could finish a story. Everything was blocked. And so that's what we did. Yeah. We did that work. And it was by the hour, because I think we did it in the mornings, about an hour and 10 minutes or something like that. But I remember that's not really how the work works. The work it doesn't. It you when we leave, you're still engaged, I'm still engaged. I think it has something to do with what I was saying about the field. Like you didn't know me and I didn't know you. And then we met, and then that's when the fields got together. Yeah. And so we were able to do that work, and then yeah, I was able to finish that story and actually get to writing again.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Something that, yeah, was not um not given to me, but like something that I thought was for me. Right, right. Like out of my wheelhouse or out of my availability of things. Because yeah, it's things you're told that are not right, you know, it's just identity stuff.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

So yeah, yeah, I think that's the thing. It's not a per hour thing. It is a very much um it's a in-the-field thing. And and the results, yeah, you you don't measure it in any kind of time per thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

It's a but the modern world does.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

I know. It's weird.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Well, I mean, I think the people that are gonna come for our help, I think they're gonna know this. I think um they've tried everything else, they've exhausted everything else, and now they know that there's something else besides just the material. Right. You know, right. And that I think if they're willing to take that leap, I think they'll be really amazed at how um how much progress they'll make.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

I think things that can affect, again, what we think is productive, you know, people might be going through depression or other issues in their life. And so, yeah, there's a difference between I'm gonna take time to r to rest, or maybe there's something that they're you know, afraid to face. Yeah, something to be aware of. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

Yeah, we didn't even touch on depression, did we?

SPEAKER_01 42:09

No, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Well, I mean, depression will really set somebody back as far as being productive.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Like and or anxiety, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

The very first book that Jessica got me where I had a change of heart on mental health was that care of the soul book, where uh they were talking about um depression, and instead of trying to get rid of it, just sitting with it. It's kind of the same thing. It needs to be felt. It needs to be felt. That's the one thing that we talked about. We don't want to feel it. Yeah. We'd rather take a painkiller, yeah, drink it away.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

If you meet somebody and by society standards, it appears that they're unproductive, but they're kind and generous and present, would you respect them?

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Oh yeah, I do. I mean, that's the way I am. My grandfather was like that. And I hold him in the highest regard because he never produced anything. And and he never made fun of the people who were way into producing, but he never went gaga over that either. It's like it's it's its thing, you know, everything its thing. Like AI and everybody's going whatever about it. It's like I imagine he would have just been like, well, it's gonna be what it's gonna be. Yeah, y'all are gonna do your craziness around it. But it wouldn't have fazed him. Yeah. He'd be like, no.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

And so yeah, that just being is that that was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Yeah. We can flip that too, and somebody who is a very productive person, you know, maybe amassed a lot of wealth or again, according to society, did a lot of things, but they were selfish and unkind. Yeah, I don't respect that. I don't know. Humans are so nuanced, though. I know we're not just one thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Oh, I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

And the way our stories interconnect and all that. That's incredible. Yeah. And why we think that's so important.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Because we do.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

We do, yeah. I think we're kind of where we're landing, is just that, you know, don't confuse human value and worth with productivity, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

I don't know why I thought about this again, but I thought about um work will set you free.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

That's a twisted, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Yeah, that's really twisted. And and people did that to one another in those camps. And I always think about, well, what Victor Frankel's, you know, what got him through all that craziness. It's like, you know, you just have you have to there has to be a a a reason for the suffering, like a meaning, you know. And I think it's worth it. I think it's worth it to try to find that.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So until next time, stop fighting what's here and start seeing what's here.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

See what's here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Well, if any of our listeners wanted to reach out to you, Pablo, how would they do that?

SPEAKER_00 45:24

Uh uh email me at info at chronicles of Pablo.com. And if somebody wants to do the work with you, how do they get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Absolutely. I am on all social media platforms, so you can send me a DM, or you can go to my website, expansive life solutions.com.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Thanks, Vanessa.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Of course. Thank you, Pablo. Have a good one. All right, you too.