Changing ZIP Codes: When Success Creates Distance

What does it really mean to "make it" when success takes you away from home? 

In this episode, Sirad shares her journey of growing up in a tight-knit family in Maryland with big dreams to studying at Princeton, then Columbia, all the way to pursuing a PhD in Boston at Harvard. Together, we reflect on the emotional realities of changing zip codes: navigating the tensions between ambition and belonging, carrying the weight of leaving family behind, and reshaping the relationships we've always known. 

This conversation is for anyone who has ever felt caught between where we come from and where we're going.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello, hello. Asalamu Alaikum. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. I don't know where you're listening from, but my name is Navin Tadumbia. This is Nine Tasir, a space for Muslims navigating both worlds. Sirod Hassan is a Somali American public health researcher, storyteller, PhD candidate in population health sciences at none other than the Harvard. Okay, you I did not stutter. Harvard, okay, thank you so much. Tirad was raised in Maryland in a close-knit immigrant family, and her work and life really sit at the intersection of migration, identity, ambition, faith, and the complicated emotional terrain of leaving home in pursuit of opportunity. On today's episode, I can't wait to learn more about her, her background, her story, and more specifically, speaking with her about what her journey has been like navigating zip codes.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Hey, hey, salam alaikum! Wa alaikum as salam. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Thank you for coming. Really, really appreciate it. Um, how's your day so far? Where you're in Boston, right? Yes. Okay, how's the weather there right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

It's good. It's been getting really warm. Yes, the weather has been kind of like all over the place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

No, same exact story in the Midwest. Like it was like really hot, and then it's like dropping. It was just like, what is going on? But whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

I'm so excited to have you on today's episode to talk. I mean, all the things, but especially about changing zip codes, um, you know, success as first gen, success that creates distance, what that distance means, what it represents, and things like that. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah, no, I'm happy to talk about it. I'm very excited. I've changed my zip code many times. So happy to talk about my experiences.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

No, totally. I mean, well, if we were to start with just I mean, if I asked you to just tell me more about where you grew up, um, how would you answer that question?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, I would tell you Maryland, home, like that's home for me. I am a big time Maryland girl. I love the DMV. Shout out to the DMV. Shout out. Um, but yeah, no, I was born in Maryland and I spent pretty much my whole life there up until um going out for for college.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

I don't know if I if I ever told you this, but I spent a little bit of time in the DMV in DC in particular. Yeah, yeah. I went to law school there. I went to Georgetown, and um, so I started there end of 2019, the pandemic hit, obviously, at the beginning of 2020. So in total, I did a little under I think two years or maybe a little over a you know a year. Um, but no, I great area. I love DC. Um was there anything about I mean, I feel like everyone loves where they're from, right? Like I have a very unhealthy attachment to Detroit because I'm I'm from here.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Um, but besides that, what do you love most about the DMV?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

That's such a good question. I'm usually just ranting about old bay and crabs and such a big bay. So um I think honestly, the thing that I like appreciate most about Maryland is just how like the state is so it's so different across like the different parts of the state. I also just think it's like really cool to see the different like immigrant communities that have settled because, for example, like there's not that big of a Somali community, but um there is a really big like Habisha community. So there's a lot of like Ethiopians, like Eritreans, like a lot of folks who are from like East Africa as well. And I remember like I would go with my mom and my dad to like pick up Angera from like the different like 7-Elevens, because like the 7-Elevens would have like Angera.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Like that's so cool, which doesn't make like to me.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

I'm like now that I'm older, I'm like, wait, I didn't like that that should have been like a weird, like I didn't I never see Angera in any other 7-Elevens.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

I feel like no 7-Eleven experience would ever be the same again, right? It's like what why does 710?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

So even now, now I'm like much older, and my mom, when I come home, she's like, Can you come grab me some like Jetta from 7-Eleven? Like, what?

SPEAKER_03 4:40

I'm curious to know. Um, you know, having been the first daughter, first child, and what did you feel like were some of the particularly difficult things to figure out, uh, especially where it pertained to academics?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, I think honestly, like, so a big change for me was that right before I started high school, I moved to a different um part of Maryland. So I actually moved a bit more north, closer to the Mason-Dixon line, um, like I was describing before. And um, I don't know, like I felt like it was really difficult like adjusting um to one like being in a different like environment um socially, but then also I felt like really lost in terms of like I would hear my parents say, like, okay, like you're one like school away from going to college, like you need to take these like four years seriously, like, and then also hearing this like the financial responsibility of oh, like you we're not gonna be able to pay for like you to go to college, like you need like you like I didn't have any understanding of scholarships or anything, but just like you have to like figure out your own way. Um, so I like really internalized that when I started um high school because I felt like hearing my parents tell me that, and just like also being more like as I was growing older, like more acutely aware of like our situation, and also like I mean as a kid, I felt like I was comparing myself a lot to others, like just knowing what my parents were like able to do and what they wanted to do for me, but like what the also the what the reality was. And I think once I started ninth grade, I I felt like I really had to lock in.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

You were really just like, okay, like I need to lock in, I need to be grinding. While you were doing that, did you have a specific vision for what post-high school looked like? Like, was there did you have a dream college, for example?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

Definitely had a dream, dream college. It was Princeton because they were the number one school at the time, and I remember my dad specifically was like, I want you to go to the number one school in the US. So I was like, okay, so I go on like my computer and I look up, like, what's the number one school? And I see it's Princeton.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go there. Like, this is my dream, like I have to go there. Um, I felt like in terms of the vision I had for myself, I saw that I wanted to go to a top school, but I didn't see it as like something possible for me because no one, I think there was only like one or two people from my high school in like recent years who had um at that point like that had gone on to like Ivy League school. So it wasn't something that like I had people to like ask directly and get information from in terms of like, oh, like you should do this, like you should take care of like these different things. I don't know, like I felt like it was a very like lonely time because my parents, you know, they were very supportive and they wanted me to do well, but I also didn't have much like I could put in my best effort, but I would hearing all of these stories online of how people who had perfect GPAs, great essays, like all sorts of spectrulers, founded nonprofits, like all things like not getting into their dream schools or not getting into the schools that they wanted, or not even like getting scholarships and stuff. So I had like my expectations very low, but I was hopeful. Then I found out in December of 2015 that I was accepted to Princeton, like early admission, and I was like so, so happy, and it felt like such a weight off of my shoulders.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Um, I'm curious actually, if we were to go back just a little bit, uh, when your dad mentioned wanting you to go to the top school, you finding out that that was Princeton, I'm assuming at some point maybe he knew that beforehand, or maybe you shared it with him. But obviously, Princeton is not in Maryland, it's not at home. Um, did he have any reaction to that? And and were you surprised? Like, were you surprised that you could go to a school that was not at home?

SPEAKER_01 8:41

I remember my parents, they specifically were like, unless you get into an Ivy League, we don't want you leaving. Like so it was like, you're gonna go to University of Maryland, you're gonna go to university like Maryland, Baltimore, like you're gonna go to one of those schools.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Um, like that was what they were sort of like expecting, but they were like, best case scenario, if you get into like this amazing school like Harvard or Hill or Princeton, then we'll consider like letting you go.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Okay. Um and how did you I guess how did you feel about that? How'd you engage with that? Were you scared of the possibility of going out of state, or do you feel like you were more so focused on like, nah, I gotta go to the top school? Like, I don't know what other barriers are.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

I think I had a few different things in my mind. I think I was definitely like, I want to go to the top school, and um, because I kept like talking like my parents' ears off about Princeton and how like, oh my god, like the videos that I would watch of the school and how beautiful the campus was. And I also really liked the fact that it had a thesis um requirement because it's like, oh, it like pushes you to write more. And I was like exploring my like writing side at that time, and yeah, like I I remember very much like feeling like I want to go to the school, I want to go to this top school, but then also like feeling a little bit of like, oh but I'm gonna be leaving my younger brother behind, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to see my parents as much. Like, I've never lived like outside of my parents' house before. I was just very nervous, but I was also like looking forward to it. Like I kind of wanted to have that experience. Like, I was like, oh, it can be really cool. Like, I get to like learn more about myself and grow in myself and get to have like a different relationship with myself and my family and with my dean. Like that was something that I remember my parents were also worried about in terms of like, oh, like wherever you go to college, like we really want there to be like a good Muslim community.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

And so obviously, I mean, you did it. You get into your dream school, you get into Princeton. Um, what is it like once you reach the point of I mean, moving, moving from home, like like not only going to Princeton, but moving from home. Um, yeah, what was it like to to move on, I'm assuming, campus or if not campus, wherever you lived?

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah, so I I lived on campus all four years at my time at Princeton. And yeah, I was like really emotional when I was getting ready to move. Um, like I just remember like like I've never had to like do like a big move like that, um, just just of myself. So I remember like having like bags of like clothes and things that we had like in the living room. It was just like in the living room for like a few weeks, just because like I was like so uncertain, like, should I bring this thing? Should I not bring that thing? Um, and then it was about a three and a half hour to four hour drive to Princeton from where my family lives, and it was like a very like emotional car ride, and the part of it that was the most emotional for me was just feeling like I was gonna really be missing out on like my brother's life. Like I felt like that was like really hard for me because I was like what 17, but my brother was seven. So I felt like I was just like going to be really missing out on a lot of like his life, and like I wasn't even sure what it would be like to sort of like have like a good relationship with him, like just through face to phone calls, yeah, like he's so young, yeah. And then like also like seeing just how like expensive it is to take the Amtrak, like and the Amtrak only goes up until Baltimore or like DC, depending on where I'd want to get off, and yeah, like it would still be like a long journey after that, so just a lot of like coordination and things, and yeah, like I remember just feeling like really overwhelmed, like in a good way, but also like overwhelmed because I was sad.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Do you have any recollection of what your brother was like during that time?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

We came the night before, also just like walk around the campus and meet the RA who like lived in my hall, and my brother, like he had never also like been to like a college dorm area, so he was just like running up and down the hallway. Like he was like, Oh, like, am I gonna visit Saza here? Like, which is like my nickname. So he was like, Am I gonna visit you here? And I remember he like he was really excited, like he was also just like having like a blast. Um happy to be here. And like Prince Princeton, Princeton's like mascot is like the tigers, so there's like these tiger statues at the front of the campus, and I have like pictures of my brother like making silly faces with it. Um and then he like when it was time for him to actually leave, we were both like crying a lot. Like I remember being really sad, and like the three hours or three and a half hours after my parents left and they were on the road. Like, I remember I was like on the phone with them, I was like talking to them. Like, I wasn't like ready to say goodbye, even though I already said goodbye to them.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

Um, when was the first time that you went home and what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, I think the first time I went home was like for our fall break, which like Princeton has like a random break in the middle of the fall semester. I think it's like a week or two before Halloween. I remember taking the train and just feeling like, oh wow, like I've had like two months away from being in this, like being in Maryland, being around, like you know, I have a cat also too, so it's like I haven't seen my cat in so long.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Um, shout out to Ellif.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

I love that name first off.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yeah, yeah. So I was just like very, I don't know, like I I was like happy that I was like at that stage and that point in my life, but a thing that was like looming over me that like I wasn't sure at that point how to communicate to my parents was just how challenging college was for me because it wasn't just challenging in the like oh like I'm struggling to adapt to like living away from my parents, like that was definitely part of it. Um, but I think the part of it that was extra challenging was feeling like a very, very distinct like class difference from like my classmates, and just being hyper aware of like you know, there were a lot of students who were like going home to their parents like every weekend, or like having personal tutors, or like having someone to like come do their laundry for them. Like, there were just a lot of like very like random things that I remember I felt like were just accumulating in me that I felt like wow, like this is like very different than what I'm used to. And I remember like my parents had asked me, like, how are you doing in school? And I would tell them, like, I'm doing fine, because like I didn't have grades or anything at that point, but like it was starting to feel like more intense.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

I mean, what you're speaking to is so real, right? Where it's like the academics of it is literally only half of it, sometimes not even half of it. And and I think I mean, if your experience is anything like mine, it's even in the ways in which the intellectual rigor is difficult, it still feels doable. Exactly, but it's the other stuff where you're like, I feel like I'm I'm learning a lot about myself, and there's a lot of other things here that are so much harder for me to explain. Um, and I I feel like that's where like a lot of the loneliness starts to kick in, you know, even though ironically you're around a ton of other people who are also figuring it out.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:06

So throughout undergrad, the more and more that you went home, what did that start to feel like? And I'm specifically curious about the familiarity or lack thereof about home. I know one of the things you talked about, for example, specifically is your brother, your relationship with him. What did it feel like once you guys were in the same space again at home in Maryland?

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah, I think I definitely was very aware of how fast he was growing up. I think every time I'd see him, he like grew a couple inches. I was like convinced that he was just getting taller and taller. He was. He's now much taller than me. Um, so yeah, like I also felt like a lot of like not really knowing the things that he enjoyed anymore. Like I felt like before I started college, like we would watch like a lot of like, I don't know, like the whatever like the children's version of Nickelodeon was. Like we would watch like was it Nick Tunes? I don't know. It was just like we would watch like Nick for kids. I felt like I understood his sense of humor when we were like, you know, when I before I started college, but as like time went on, like I felt like I didn't really know like him as well. And that was like really sad for me because I felt like okay, like my parents are my parents, like they, you know, they're they're always gonna be like mom and dad. Like they, you know, like I but the relationship that I was like wanting, especially with my brother, like as he was getting older, like you know, eight, nine, ten, like while I was in college, like I felt like it was, you know, like really hard to bond with him, and like sometimes like I felt like that familiarity in terms of like our relationship. Like, I just had to like adapt to a new normal.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

When you mention the parents and kind of just like distinguishing that between like parents and like our siblings, I feel like with parents, I mean, by the time we already know them, they're already adults, and so it's like the personality, of course. Like our parents they change and things like that, but it's like like I know your personality, like I know this version of you, versus I think, especially with siblings with such large age gaps, they're still very much growing from a personality standpoint. They're growing just as fast as their physical growth spur, right? It's like it's like you're growing like this many inches every time I see you, but it's also like, oh my god, there's all these other big changes that I can't see in the same way, but it's not until you make a specific joke or you say a certain word, and I'm like, What's that? Like, never heard that one before. So, did you feel like you were able to have community at Princeton and you were able to um at the very least, you know, start to to find people and connect with them who you really felt like would at least like help with you um just feeling like comforted, especially when you were like missing home the most.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

In like my first visit to Princeton after being admitted, um actually no, sorry, my second visit, it was in April. I was with my dad and I like saw this girl who was like wearing hijab in like her profile picture on Group Me.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

And I was like, oh my gosh, like I need to be friends with her. Like, she wants to major in the same thing as me. Yeah, um, she's from New Jersey, so she probably knows New Jersey like much better than like I ever would. Yeah. Um, so I just like messaged her and I was like, Hey, would you be like interested in like hanging out?

SPEAKER_03 19:32

I love it, yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

She was like down for it. She was like, Yeah, sure, like let's meet up. And um, so she meets me and my dad, and like my dad and her talking, and like the three of us, we like get to like walk around like the gym and see what all the different student activities were, and yeah, like I like was really lucky because I had such a beautiful friendship with her. Um, that started like you know, before I even stepped foot on campus. Yeah. Um, and then there was another um really close friend of mine who has passed away. Um, she was also Somali like me, and she like lived like the hall, same hall as me, but like a floor before like a floor above me. And like we had this like almost like we didn't even need to speak, like we just had like this like sisterhood of like we understand each other, and like I met her family, and like she met my family, and you know, I had like a lot of like beautiful and like positive memories with her. Um and then like I made like a lot of other like good friends, sort of like through like the Muslim Student Association, and also I did a lot of like interfaith um stuff on campus because I was also trying to like have like a better understanding of other like faith traditions. Um, so like I have a lot of friends who are like from very different like faith backgrounds or no faith background at all, and um like we like every year like that student group that I was a part of, we'd go on like different retreats, and um like I had like great friendships that like blossomed from that. So there's just a lot of like things that I sort of credit to like my time there, but also like as sort of like answers to dua that I've made you made sort of like before I started college and also like while I was in college.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Yeah, no subhanallah. I think I think that's really beautiful because I feel like I feel like there are certain things that we sometimes forget to pray for, and I think speaking for myself, I think sometimes connections and community um is one of those things. And it could just be you know, because uh sometimes maybe I take it for granted. Like alhamdulillah, I grew up in a really close and tight knit family, but also just community. I have a ton of cousins who I grew up around. Um not blood related, any of them, but literally just people who. Their parents and my parents connected, and we have known each other our entire lives. And so, yeah, I think I think it's so beautiful that you even remember to ask Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala to um continue to facilitate that for you and to really just offer you an extension of that community, especially in a time when um it seems like you were really longing for it or even worried, right, about the ways in which um you wouldn't be home and things like that. We can't not address it, the pandemic. So are you on campus when the pandemic is happening? Do you go home? Are you able to get home? Right, like everything was just shy.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I remember that was such a fiasco. Like we get an email that's like, oh, everyone has to leave campus. Like it was so abrupt. Like it went from like having very little like understanding of what was going on to like, oh, we all need to like leave campus, like right now.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

So I remember my dad, like I forward him the email. My dad comes up and he helps me with like moving out, like on like such a like very last minute circumstance. It was like very frustrating. Um, but it was nice being home during that time.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Had you already started thinking about you know post- undergrad plans, were you doing that thinking during the pandemic while you were home? What did what did that process sort of start to look like?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah, I think so. A big thing for me was that like I knew that I was going to do my masters by around like December. Um so I wasn't like frantically like trying to figure out what I was gonna be doing. I kind of knew that I would be going, but I didn't know if I'd be going to campus because of how like COVID was shaping out, especially how it impacted New York.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Yeah. Oh, you knew as in you already knew like what school, what city, all that.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah, yeah. Like I was accepted to the program that I applied for. I was doing the master's in nutrition at Columbia, and um, yeah, like I knew that I was gonna be going, like I went and visited the campus, like I think in November. I submitted my application, and then um, yeah, like I was like, I think I knew like maybe like a month, a month and a half later choosing that program specifically was because I didn't want to go somewhere like really far away again. And I felt like New York was like kind of like nearby-ish to Princeton, so it wasn't like that big of a change.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Um and then my master's program, they were like, oh, like you can come to campus and um you can like like if students like they're they were basically saying there's a chance that things might be in person again, so it's recommended that you move. Then I had a scholarship, so I was like, I'm gonna move out. Like I need to like, like I could not, like I I was struggling with like doing my senior thesis at home because of like you know, like I want to spend time with my family. I was like, my sister was like really little, um, and I also wanted to like hang out with my brother, so I just felt a lot of um I don't know, like distractions like at home. Um, so I was just like very much like locked in, and that was a very difficult time for a lot of reasons, but that was just like a very difficult time for me with like COVID and also the people who are important to me in my journey who had like passed or like were diagnosed with cancer during that time, um, like classmates of mine and also just like important figures in my life, like the coach of my trivia team, and having like the chaplain too, who's like a big part of my life in college, like also like you know, pass um shortly, like you know, within I think it was like April, yeah, it was April of um the spring semester of my master's program. So it's just like a very important time.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Yeah, subhanAllah, may Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala have mercy um on I mean all of them, but yeah, like just such a a time of so much loss, like the world, just like you said, it was in so just shambles, pure shambles, honestly. Um, and also just so much grief and loss, but then also uncertainty, I feel like, as well, that was happening in the world. It sounds like by the time you were starting your master's program, it was a different experience once you were moved leaving home, you know, from from lockdownslash the pandemic for your masters, but it also sounds like perhaps like the move was something that you felt like you needed. Am I understanding that correctly?

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Okay, yeah, yeah. It felt like something that, like, I don't know, like I think a lot of what I was feeling in that time was like I felt like I was kind of like stuck at home, like I was like I didn't really have like a choice, like I wanted to like spend time at home, you know, for the summer. Like I was, you know, looking forward to that, or like looking forward to whatever, you know, my post like college like trips or whatever that would look like. So it was just a very like different experience, like moving to New York, but it was also like a positive experience because I got to have like different relationships with like the people who were in my life at that point, and also like build and have like new relationships. Um, and also like I felt with a lot of the grieving that was happening during that time and the collective like shock with COVID, I felt like I had um, I don't know, like a lot of like deep and meaningful conversations with people that like brought me closer to them that I like hadn't expected to be close with.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What is your family's reaction like once you tell them that you are going to you I I don't know if they knew about the remote option or not, but you know, whether they did or whether they didn't, like what is their reaction like once you tell them that you are going to move to New York, gonna take the camp uh classes in person and and just gonna do your program in person? What is that initial reaction like?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

I think if I'm remembering correctly, I think my dad was super supportive because he knew that it would be really helpful for me to like have my own space to just like study and to take advantage of like all the opportunities that were there. My mom, she was also supportive, but I think she was more along the lines of like, are you sure you can't do it at home? Like it would be really nice if like you know you could be around so that like you know, I can see you more often, and um like we'll we'll make sure that like your little sister doesn't like bother you, like she's still like she's so young.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

So well, what did that feel like emotionally though? Like, even uh, I don't know if by the point your mom is sharing those things and you guys are having those conversations, you already have come to a decision and and what that decision means for you, but I I can imagine that whether you had or hadn't, that's still very impactful. So, so yeah, what's your engagement with that, even just emotionally, of her saying, you know, like consider staying, you know, like what what what is that? How are you engaging with that and what and what does it feel like?

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I was sad, I felt like I really wanted to like listen to my mom, yeah, and like be home and like be around for her. Um, and I felt like in a lot of ways, like that would be good for me too. But I was like, okay, I do want to stay, I will come home, I will make time to come home, and I think that was like around the time that like I kind of started like this like internal sort of like tradition of myself where I like try my best to like visit home at least like like once every like month or month and a half, so that way it's like I'm not gone for so long.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

Yeah. When you were talking about your mom and her reaction, it reminded me of when I got to the end of my law school application cycle a few months right before my dad was detained by ICE. And then um in August, uh, he was deported, he was reported to the Ivory Coast, and so I mean, like, completely rocked my family's world, and we were just like obviously very shaken up by that experience. My mom, you know, was and still is undocumented. And so for her, that was very like, oh my god, you know, and and I think I think even in her plea and her asking me to stay, it was also reflective of like just not like stability, you know. I think for her it was just like, okay, like you leaving, like what does that mean? What does that look like? I think I play like a pretty big role in my family too, alhamdulillah. And so, oh my god, like I just remember that time just being so like waking up every day, just so confused. Like, I was like, I don't know what to do. Like, I was like, no, like I've already like committed to this, and I think this makes the most sense, and I think that you know, this decision, it didn't even come down to like, oh, this opportunity, this isn't it was just like no, like this, I know that this is the best decision for me. It's and and sometimes in a way that you can't explain, you know, like in a way, like I can't fully put into words, and it's not as simple as like, oh, this is just right up the street, just go here, you know. I wonder if that's a little bit of what you're speaking to as well, when you're in in situations like that, and it I mean, like it's you at your istihara against the world, like literally, like you know, like you just like all you have is like your own trusting your you know Allah, right? Your istihara praying, and when Allah begins to like make those answers clear to you, not doubting those, because then you're you're you're like messing with the system, you know. Like I have to keep reminding myself, like, okay, the only way I can strengthen my gut instinct is when I listen to her, like when I follow her. Like, she can't be telling me something, and I'm like, well, actually, nope, I'm gonna do something else. I'm like, I'm not strengthening it that way, and I'm always gonna, you know, I'll look down a few years down the line and we'll be in a position where like I I'm I'm outsourcing all of my decisions, and I just don't want to be that way, as difficult as it is, subhanAllah.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

So like it needs to be your decision, like it needs to be your decision.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Yeah, and oh man, that gill, especially that like first generation gill. Also, I I didn't feel a way that my mom was telling me to say, I really didn't. Like, I I just I was like, I if anything, I was like empathetic. I'm like, I fully understand. Like, I'm like, I can't say that if I'm in your position, I'm not doing the same thing, you know what I mean? Exactly. I mean, well, speaking of moves, um, obviously, currently you are you're a PhD candidate at Harvard, so so kind of fill in that gap for me from the point when you are doing your master's, you finish your master's in a year to where you are now, and obviously you're in Boston now, you're you're not in Maryland, so that's another move. And so, yeah, kind of walk walk me through what what how that came about.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah, uh, so after my master's, once I finished like my thesis and everything, um, I had gotten a job at Yale. So I worked there for about two years. I was like working, I think I was working, um, I think this was when I was like doing my internship with like Launch Good as well. So I was like working two jobs, like I had like a lot of things going on at that point, and I was just like, I get this like interview, I get like an email that's like, oh, like you here's your interview details for your Harvard PhD program.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

And I'm just like, wow, subhanAllah, like I did not expect that I was gonna get an interview. Like, I just decided like two months before the application deadline that I was gonna apply. So, and I was like very like, like I feel like people prepare like a lot more, you know, to um, you know, be admitted to a PhD program. I find out like three weeks later that I was accepted, I was like, wow, like this is like really crazy. Yeah, no, I can literally I was like, wow, subhanallah, like Allah made this as easy as possible.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

So obviously at this point, um, by the time you're moving again to go to Harvard, start your PhD program, you've moved a few times, right? You moved for undergrad, um, and then back for the pandemic, but then move again for your master's program, move again to start working. Um, you said yeah, also you're in like Connecticut, so still within the area, but still a move nonetheless, and then um moving to Boston. And so I know you mentioned you go home frequently, but are there parts about home that feel different? Does it generally feel the same because you're there so frequently? Like how like how does it feel when you are at home? Home in general, whether that's like Maryland with your family, with your siblings?

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Yeah, I think honestly, like home now, home feels like very much like the same between trips because I feel like like yeah, like I see all of these siblings like growing up, but like it's a lot of the same old and it actually makes me happy that it's a lot of the same old. Because I feel like I can kind of just like find my place right back into it and just like jump right in and be like, all right, like what can I do to help my mom? Like, what can I do to help my dad? Um, you know, like my siblings, like being able to like be there to support them and each of them in like their own way. I I'm going through like another transition of like getting ready to move, but this time like kind of like closing the gap and like going back home after like what has been now almost 10 years. And actually, I think it'll be exactly 10 years when I like move back.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Yeah. Back to Maryland officially.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Yeah, yeah, back to Maryland. So I'm excited to see what that chapter holds, but I think like again, like a big part of of that is because of my siblings.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

I'm curious to know, has anything else influenced your decision to to go back home, especially after it'll be a decade, like you said. Like, have there been any other factors um that has like really played an instrumental role?

SPEAKER_01 35:42

I think the biggest factor that I like haven't explicitly named, but is like something I think about a lot is just being like acutely aware of how like fragile and short our lives are. And I think that like you know, you never know like how long you have with like your relatives. And I remember there was like some chart that I saw where it's like, oh, once you turn 18 or once you like move for college and you've spent like more than like 80% of your time in your lifetime like with your parents. Um and like I know that's like different for like like Muslim families or families that are like structured similar to like what it sounds like yours is and like mine, but but I think that like I do feel very like acutely aware of like okay, like I want to make sure that like I especially in the stage of my life where I do have that like flexibility to not like be on campus and still get my work done and feel sort of like more secure and like the kind of um person and student that I am that I can kind of just like make it work for like a short period of time or not short period of time, but like for a year at least to like until I sort of graduate from my program to be able to have like quality time with my parents because I feel like when I'm home, it's like you know, I like will get to like have more like casual like interactions with my parents, like I get to like, you know, sit in the living room and like stay up late with them and like watch the news and like debrief things, whereas like on the phone, it's like I still get to talk to them, but it's not the same. And I like really value like especially having like lost a lot of people in my life, yeah. Both young and like old. I think that like I feel even more like okay, I need to like give myself this time and space to um you know have like this relationship with my parents, even though it's kind of like a very different like decision like that I'm making that like most of like my peers and the people that I'm like friends with, you know, like most of them are not living at home, like most of them have like you know, moved out or like you know, gone on to like different places and and don't have the plans to like literally move back into the house. Like maybe it's like being nearby but not moving home. So I do feel it like it's you know nice to like have the space to like have a different relationship with my parents. I want to be around. Um that's like honestly like the main the main thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:22

Yeah, no, that is I mean, well, first off, thank you like for answering so so honestly and just vulnerably. Um I definitely think that you know one of the hardest parts about getting older um is is really watching our parents get older. You know, one thing I'm thinking about, um, and and we can start to to wrap up perhaps on this note is it's hard, you know, like building community, even when it's a community that we're from, and you know, re-implementing ourselves in community, re-re-implementing ourselves into our own families, you know, is difficult. And so I'm curious to know if there are any thoughts that you're having in that realm.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

The biggest thing about getting ready to move back that I feel like I'm really working through is like what is my like what do I want my role and like relationship to look like with like each of the people that I'm gonna be like living with again, like in my family, and like I think that's gonna look like a little different with my dad, my mom, my brother who's getting ready to leave, but then also like um for college, but then also like my three younger siblings who are like all sort of like close in age but are much younger. Yeah, and I like I don't know, like I think a lot about like what does it mean to like communicate like what my needs are um for myself because I think like you know what I need now is like very different than like what I needed when I was like 16 because I feel like now it's like okay, I I do my own thing and I don't really need to like communicate. I kind of just like give my parents a summary of my day and kind of like they'll ask me questions, but it's not like the specific details. Whereas I think when it's like okay, like I want to go to the grocery store or I want to go pick up something or I want to do this or I want to do that, it's like I'm gonna have to like really be intentional about like communicating and telling them. I really feel like that's gonna like be the key to like inshallah thriving at home again.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Inshallah, I am so excited for you. Yeah, I mean it's definitely an adjustment, but it's also just so cool. Like in some ways, you're you're just picking up where you left off in other ways. Exactly. Yeah, and in other ways you're a stranger. I pray that Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala facilitates that journey for you, um, and that it is beautiful, even in the ways in which it'll be challenging.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

I mean, I mean, thank you, Bentu.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

Of course, if I told you to, you know, give one piece of advice um to someone who's listening who feels like they're in between two worlds, right? They're kind of between zip codes, what would you say? What would you want them to know?

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Definitely lean into understanding and exploring yourself more and doing what you can to facilitate that, whether that's you know, finding like a religious leader or someone that you look up to to get mentorship from and to talk about your life with, or having like a good friend to just sort of like kiki with and figure out like what is it that like you need to sort of exist in both of those worlds. But I think at the end of the day, it's really just like trying your best to stay true to what it is that like you set as your goals for yourself, but also not being too rigid about the goals that you lose sight on like the beauty of like the journey. The the trips back and forth, like I used to find them to be very tiring, but now it's like I love the flight or the train ride where I get to just like reflect and think about like what has changed, what has not changed. Yeah. Um, so really just like leaning into and enjoying like each part of that journey and always ask for help if you feel like you are alone or like feel like you're alone.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

Thank you so much for joining the Nine to Asir podcast, Sirod. And thank you to you all, our listeners. I must say, one of my absolute favorite parts about today's conversation was normalizing all of the complexities that come with chasing our goals, chasing our dreams, including moving away from home when that's what it entails. See you all next week on nine to also