Dr. Joseph Howell and Barrett Owen continue their discussion about the importance of taking a Sabbath and how the Enneagram can help the Ego Types experience a sense of peace and rest. They discuss what inspires Ego Types Six through Nine to take a Sabbath and what a Sabbath means to them.
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Email us: therealenneagram@gmail.com
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Visit The Institute for Conscious Being: theicb.org
Dr. Joseph Howell and Barrett Owen continue their discussion about the importance of taking a Sabbath and how the Enneagram can help the Ego Types experience a sense of peace and rest. They discuss what inspires Ego Types Six through Nine to take a Sabbath and what a Sabbath means to them.
Connect with us:
Email us: therealenneagram@gmail.com
Follow us on Instagram: @therealenneagram
Visit The Institute for Conscious Being: theicb.org
[00:01] Intro: You're listening to the Real Enneagram podcast, a Spiritual Quest, brought to you by the Institute for Conscious Being.
[00:11] Barrett: Welcome back to The Real Enneagram.
[00:13] Joe: A Spiritual Quest.
[00:16] Barrett: I'm Barrett Owen, one of our podcast hosts, and I'm here today with Dr. Joe Howell, the founder and director of the Institute for Conscious Being or the ICB. Today, we'll be picking up on a conversation that we started on November the 24th on the Enneagram and the Sabbath. We were able to get through our first five numbers of ego types, and we are picking up starting with Ego Type Six. But first, Dr. Howell, how are you doing?
[00:46] Joe: I'm doing well, Barrett, and I thank you for being the host of this show and for these podcasts, and bringing your enquiring mind.
[00:58] Barrett: Absolutely. Well, I love it. And I love every chance that we get to spend together as well. And I'm particularly interested in how we're going to start today. And I'll give a brief overview of where we came from, but I'm particularly interested with you because you identify as an Ego Type Six. And we will, we'll start there in just a moment.
But the last time that we talked, we were able to admit that Sabbath can be difficult for people, and it is a necessary responsibility for Christians. We see in the Bible, it is a directive that comes from God that we need to find in our life's rhythm, a sense of peace and a sense of rest. And that can look differently as you move around the Enneagram. And so we covered the first five ego types. And so let's jump into it, Dr. Howell. Tell us what it's like to be an Ego Type Six.
[01:54] Joe: Well, of course, everybody does their own ego type in their own spin, so to speak. And so everybody is kinda like snowflakes. Everybody is completely different in how they do snowflake. And all Sixes and all of the numbers are different, and how they do their ego types, of course. But the one thing in common with all sixes is that they are we tend to have a preoccupation with fear. That something is going to go wrong, or there's a problem that must be handled, and it's up to us to handle it. Somebody is going to do or say something that may negatively affect us all the way from hurting our feelings to firing us from our employment.
So there's a fear of power, a fear of the superstructure that we're in. And when the ego is very unhealthy, that fear drives the life. And so for an unhealthy Six, very little Sabbath happens, because you can imagine somebody who feels that a target is always on their back, that they don't do enough to please people who they are beholding to, whether that be family, friends, or the workplace. And they fear being rejected, and maybe even given a pink slip, that there's very little time for Sabbath, because when we rest, if we are an unhealthy Six, we are opening ourselves to being caught without the amount of hypervigilance we need to make sure we're safe.
If you're hypervigilant, that increases the chances that you'll find out what's going wrong and prevent it. But if you're relaxed, that leaves you wide open to have somebody attack you from behind or something going wrong that was not in your rear view mirror or in your windshield.
[04:21] Barrett: What would a Six need to get off that wheel?
[04:25] Joe: Well, the Six is holy idea, is holy strength and holy faith. Healthy Sixes embrace that because they know that there's no safe place for anybody, anywhere anyway. And they know that hypervigilance is not going to change that fact. So they switch the paradigm from preventing anything bad from happening to becoming strong enough and faithful enough to handle whatever may come. And for everybody, whatever may come does finally get there in some form.
And if it's an unhealthy Six, they fall apart. They disintegrate. They do more. They achieve more by going to their unhealthy Three, and in order to compensate for all of the devastation of that whatever brought itself in any form to hurt it. But if it's a healthy Six, they have engendered their own authority, their own strength, their own faith in the Divine, the goodness of the universe, the charity of their good neighbors. And things shift for them, so that a Sabbath is not a time that we would increase our exposure to bad things, but the Sabbath isn't a time to increase our strength and our faith. And a Sabbath is always neat.
[06:08] Barrett: Yeah, I mean, so it could be something physical, that just like a hike in the woods, or actually exercising. Something that you are physically doing that is under your own power. There's nobody else you're competing with or to lose to. And it's just something that you can engage in for your own physical well-being.
[06:31] Joe: Right, and to nurture yourself, because it's very frequent that Sixes are so busy trying to overcompensate for their deficiencies that they never take time to nurture themselves in healthy ways. And I know for me, that my first Sabbaths were going to a monastery. There are several near me here, one in Atlanta, and a couple here in Alabama, and Cullman, Alabama.
And I begin by having one-day retreats, and then I began to spend the night for retreats. And then I began having three-day retreats. Some of which were silent, some not, but I was away from the workplace and my family. And I used that time to nurture myself to study, to sit with the divine in some type of relationship that Sixes don't often get, because we're so busy.
[07:36] Barrett: Yeah, I think this is a really good point that you have to be able to identify where that hypervigilance is coming from. And so you can intentionally, you got to slow it down. And you got to allow yourself to rest which is ultimately what Sabbath is. And so that is such a great example. And so I don't think a Seven knows how to rest that well either. So can you tell us a little bit more about the Ego Type Seven?
[08:01] Joe: Yeah, well, you know, Sevens are our lily pad hoppers. They go from one lily pad to the other because, you know, that ego type is given to being very bored with whatever lily pad that they're on. Why are they bored? Because they need new experience coming fluidly into their lives, because they're on a track to distract themselves from whatever takes away from their happiness and their pain. And well, and their avoidance of pain.
Put it to use that like this. I know a Seven who constantly travels, and they don't feel good unless they've got another trip planned. Well, they're hardly ever at home, because that's where their real life is. That's where their relationships are, their family, and also that's where their pain is. And they're afraid of pain. Fives are afraid of emptiness. Sixes are afraid of fear, and Sevens are afraid of pain. And they avoid it.
[09:20] Barrett: By hopping from lily pad to lily pad. Stay one step ahead, and you are okay.
[09:25] Joe: And not only is hopping a distraction, it is part of consumerism. The more you hop, the more you can consume. The more you consume, the more you feel satisfied, but for a Seven, that satisfaction is very superficial because pain is right beneath the surface. So they have to keep hopping to the next lily pad and consume the next lily pad too.
That's why Seven is called ego gluttony. Because they do it through distractions, but they also do it through consuming food, and drink, and experiences that are new. New friends, new places to go. And once they're through with these, they exhaust them and go on to the next.
[10:29] Barrett: In our community, there is an online Facebook group for 30 and 40 year olds, and I know an Ego Type Seven, where it becomes emotional for her to know that there are seven or eight events happening across town, and she cannot get to all of them. And so there is people having a good time out there, and she is not a part of it. It's funny to see. It's like I have to make a choice between these two groups, and I'm not sure which one is more fun for me. That is torture for a Seven.
[11:06] Joe: It is torture, because they want to keep all their options open.
[11:10] Barrett: Absolutely. Absolutely
[11:12] Joe: You can't do it. It's impossible.
[11:14] Barrett: So how did they slow down? Where can they find rest amidst all the hopping?
[11:20] Joe: Well, you know, their holy ideas are holy wisdom, holy work, and holy plan. And in a word, that means if they can get in touch with their deep wisdom with them now, they have their work cut out for them then, because they are going to work for what they really believe in. And that opens up a whole new plan. Instead of their ego plan, then comes the divine plan. And the divine plan never provides us too much.
It always provides us what we need in the moment, and what we need long range, but to have that divine plan revealed to us, we have to sit in the quiet. We have to be in the stillness, and in that stillness is our ecstasy, but it's also our pain is there. And when Sevens get in silence, they have to push through the huge inclination to leave silence, and go ahead and start chattering again, and planning for the next event.
Because sitting with pain is the most difficult thing that a Seven Ego Type could ever do. And that takes wisdom as to how to do it. That's why the Holy ideas are placed the way they are. Wisdom comes first. Then work. Then plan is revealed. It's all based on wisdom. And you cannot learn what you need to learn about yourself while you're overindulging in food, drink friends, travel, entertainment all the time.
[13:23] Barrett: So you would challenge the Seven just really slow down. It cannot over indulge. Like a Six is hypervigilant in their mind. Seven is hypervigilant in their bodies, and they've got to slow down and be present too, and you have to be comfortable with your pain too. It's going to emerge.
[13:42] Joe: Yes. And it's going to be big, because it's been repressed for so long, and it sweeps over them.
[13:52] Barrett: I can totally, I totally see what you're saying, but also they integrate to a Five. And so it wouldn't be out of the question for them, though, to learn something they could invest in going deep into a topic that could move into an integrated state of mind for them. Maybe even just reading fiction, or a novel series, and that allows them to go deep into one area that would free them from feeling like they have to hop from place to place.
[14:23] Joe: You got it. Exactly. Well, well put, Barrett.
[14:28] Barrett: Well then, an Eight is, they're not lily pad hoppers, by any means. They're willing to go deep. So tell us more about the Ego Type Eight.
[14:38] Joe: Well, you know, Eights, I go to Corinthians when I think of Eight, because they have the power to move mountains. Very few people on the Enneagram ego types have that kind of power. And they are given that. It's a beautiful thing to see people who can make sweeping changes. They make sweeping changes in family and organizations in the country. They tend to be leaders and visionaries, and they have the ability also to get things done. It's okay to have a vision, but if you don't have a way to get it done, motivate others to get it done. Then it doesn't happen.
Eights are also usually very busy, because they have an internal motivation to make this world a better place. They want this world to be a more just place. They became disconnected with a lot of compassion and a lot of divine order, when they disconnected from their soul, their soul child, and as a result they're trying to use, if they're unhealthy, their personal power to restore the lost order that they disconnected from. So injustice is really sticks in their craw. They do not like to see injustice.
The problem with unhealthy Eights, they define injustice in their own terms of what justice and injustice are, and that is laced with a very egocentric view. True justice is justice for everybody, not just the people whom unhealthy apes take care of. So when they are healthy and they go to their holy idea of holy innocence, they return back to their soul child at Two and become very compassionate instead of wielding a heavy hand to whip this universe back into shape. They become very compassionate. And oddly, they become compassionate for themselves as well as for others and self-compassion.
And in self-compassion, they understand simply, I need a break. I have got to have a break. I need to be centered. If I'm going to be powerful, I'm going to use my power in laser focus. I'm not going to try to fire flame this whole forest. I am going to be selective and poised about where I choose to initiate my power. You can't do that unless you've rested. And in rest, one can see and perceive their own deficiencies and their own needs for fuel.
Like, for example, when Jesus was walking among the people, and he stopped and said, "Who touched me?" And they said, "How did you know someone touched you," and the disciples heard the following from Jesus, "Because I felt the power leave me." Okay, that was the woman who touched him because she had the issue of blood. And of course, he healed her. But isn't it interesting that he was centered and poised enough to know when power left him. Okay, this is the sensitivity that eight must be conscious of, or their power will leave them. They will get angrier and angrier that they are not as effective as they were, and they will redouble on their efforts to the power of power, powerful people.
[19:05] Barrett: So they need to really pay attention to their anger as their trigger, And they need to have... Henri Nouwen calls it raising your drawbridge. And so you've got to isolate yourself away from that connection you have with people, otherwise the anger will flow. And so raising the drawbridge is what sabbath looks like. It is removing yourself from the temptation to use that power, and you need to rest.
[19:38] Joe: Yes, and to use another Henri Nouwen word, then with hospitality, the drawbridge can go down again.
[19:50] Barrett: So in Sabbath, that's the self-compassion of raising your drawbridge. I needed to remove myself, but then you begin to reaffirm compassion for the world when you reengage. And so the anger should be a trigger for Eights. They should see like, "I need to rest or I need to remove myself."
[20:11] Joe: Absolutely.
[20:14] Barrett: One of the best things I did in my little world that I live in over here in Wilmington is I hired executive pastor, essentially a CFO of the organization. And he is an Eight, an Ego type Eight. And we get things done over here. And it is a lot of fun to watch him operate. He has a very healthy Eight, and it is interesting.
One day a month, he pulls himself out to go serve at a nonprofit. And it removes himself from kind of the institutional day-to-dayness. And it allows himself to kind of reconnect in a different way. And I see that as a Sabbath for him. Even though it is a little bit of work, he's engaging life and people in a different way. And he has no power in that role. And so he's giving up power in order to serve alongside others, which could also be a Sabbath.
[21:16] Joe: Absolutely.
[21:17] Barrett: Well, we have one more, and the Ego Type Nine. And so tell us about it, and we'll jump into this conversation.
[21:24] Joe: Well, you know, Nines are in an enviable position on the Enneagram, because they're the top of the Enneagram. And all the types kind of are variations of Nine. We all have our own ways of going to sleep on life through our fixations, but the Nine's fixation is going to sleep. They literally self-narcotized, so that they don't have to endure conflict. They don't have to endure feeling minimized because they already minimize themselves through self-abasement. And the reason for this is because similarly, like Eights have very little self-compassion and compassion for others, nines tend to not have love for themselves.
For some reason, there is a self-loathing, and that shuts their heart down, their body and their mind. Because if they loathe themselves, they think, what may others think of me? And they put themselves in positions, where they are okay with everybody. Please don't hurt me because I'm okay. I'm peaceful. I'm not going to disturb anybody. Please try to love me, because I don't give anybody any trouble.
You can ask a Nine if you're in a group, where they would like to go eat. And if they're fairly unhealthy, they'll say, oh, I don't have a choice. I don't care. We can go anywhere the group wants to go. Deep down, they want to go the Mexican restaurant maybe, but they would never say it because they want to be okay with everybody. No thorn in anybody's side. Nobody for somebody to fight with. So they do a good job of not standing for anything and not having an opinion about anything. Therefore, they feed themselves through appetites, which satisfy their hungers, but they do it alone, like through eating or through any kind of self-narcotization.
So they are anesthetized to conflicts, to insults, to put downs, to anything that would cause them to take action, and therefore step out into the forefront and be noticed, and therefore be somebody who somebody could take a potshot at. So Nines are in a continual Sabbath, because they're asleep, but they're not resting unlike the true Sabbath. They are dulled to life in a way that walls them off from their own anger about having to even be in life, having to be even in a body. They want total sublime long lives, because they disconnected from their true selves as being very action-oriented peacemakers.
In the Beatitudes, Ego Type Nines are given a blessing by Jesus Christ. And it is blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the Children of God. Well, you know, there isn't a peacemaker who isn't full of action. You've got to get out there. you've got to listen to all opinions. You've got to be able to state your opinion. And you've got to be able to mediate between all opinions, and that's how peace is created. But you can't do that unless you go to, for example, to the Three.
Therefore, at Three, they can have the sacred action. How do they get there? Through their holy idea of holy love, which begins by loving themselves. Loving themselves enough to get out there on the forefront, to risk being the person who is taken down or is unloved, and to make a contribution to the world in terms of their gifts, they can't do that without having peace in themselves. And when their Sabbath is hiding from conflict, they don't have inner peace, and therefore, they cannot make peace with others.
[26:36] Barrett: Yeah, it really sounds like, you know, that is exhausting to constantly self-narcotized, because you are being confronted over and over again, and you have to keep putting yourself down. It almost sounds like you're saying in order to experience Sabbath, they need to wake up and get more in their body to be more action oriented. And I'm just wondering if just like, shooting basketball, like physically, like waking yourself up. It also makes me think of Ken Wilber and just his philosophical idea of waking up.
I mean, it seems like Nines in a negative way, are resting from reality. And that they're gonna have to get in their body to experience a love of themself. And so I'm just thinking again, like sometimes these Sabbath ideas overlap, but I could see a Nine really needing to get out into nature, and to be honest about what they feel in themselves. And it sounds like really hard work for a Nine. I hope they're gonna be able to wake up.
[27:50] Joe: Yes. Yes, self love. Self love is many times a challenge, especially in an environment, where the myth is, that in order to be a good person, we must be selfless. And selflessness does not mean to ignore one's self, to debase oneself, to put oneself down and not matter, because having an opinion makes us matter. And if we matter, somebody can not love us.
Self love is so important, because it gives us our right to live. And having a right to live is reflected in a poem called Desiderata, and which is a one line and it says, "You have a right to be here, just like the trees and the stars." And when Nines come to that realization, that they are somebody and they are a lovable body person, then they are able to have action in their lives, and only then. And that action includes a true Sabbath.
[29:19] Barrett: I love it. I love this, Joe, so much, and I think we are out of our time for today's podcast. But I would like to say that I hope all of our listeners can find rest and Sabbath in their own unique way. And each can enter into their bodies and explore the depth of who God has made them to be. And to our listeners, we want to thank them for listening today.
We hope that you are interested in learning more and you can learn more about the ICB at theicb.org or also through Facebook, or just keep listening to our podcasts, The Real Enneagram each week. We hope you have heard something today that sinks in a little deeper into your heart, in your mind, in your soul. And we hope you'll join us again soon. Thank you, Dr. Howell.
[30:08] Joe: Thank you so much, Barrett. Thank you.
[30:14] Outro: That wraps up another episode of The Real Enneagram brought to you by the Institute for Conscious Being. If you're interested in furthering these conversations, please reach out to us through our Instagram @TheRealEnneagram, or if you're interested in our upcoming trainings or other resources, please visit our website, www.instituteforconsciousbeing.org. Thanks for listening.