In this episode of the Real Enneagram podcast, Dr. Joseph and Lark Howell and Nanette and Sai Mudiam talk about the transformational power of the Enneagram and the impact they’ve witnessed from studying it in community.
Connect with us:
Email us: therealenneagram@gmail.com
Follow us on Instagram: @therealenneagram
Visit The Institute for Conscious Being: theicb.org
In this episode of the Real Enneagram podcast, Dr. Joseph and Lark Howell and Nanette and Sai Mudiam talk about the transformational power of the Enneagram and the impact they’ve witnessed from studying it in community.
Connect with us:
Email us: therealenneagram@gmail.com
Follow us on Instagram: @therealenneagram
Visit The Institute for Conscious Being: theicb.org
[00:00] Intro: You're listening to the Real Enneagram podcast, a Spiritual Quest, brought to you by the Institute for Conscious Being.
[00:10] Nanette: Well, welcome back to The Real Enneagram.
[00:13] Joe: A Spiritual Quest.
[00:14] Nanette: I'm excited to be here again with Dr. Joseph Howell and Lark Howell and also my husband Sai today. Hey, you guys.
[00:22] Sai: Hey.
[00:23] Lark: Hey, we're glad to be back.
[00:26] Nanette: We are. Last week, we talked about our intensive recently at the heart center. And you might hear Joe and Sai. They're having a little tickle break. They got tickled somehow. Boys are always boys. No matter how old they get, there's always a little boy inside.
[00:47] Sai: Nanette always says, “You always love to bring the eight-year-old boy in you.” I don't know why she says. that.
[00:54] Nanette: There's an eight-year-old little boy inside every man. It's so funny, because that is really at the heart of the Institute for Conscious Being is that we believe you have a soul child. And that they're a lot of fun and a source of energy and joy and maybe even mischief.
And we were talking just before this recording began about the transformational power of the Enneagram that we've witnessed and studying it in community. And it's been really amazing to see just the impact it's had and so Sai wanted to share with us.
[01:37] Sai: I know we talked about the intensives and what all happens and odd experiences, but I just wanted to bring back that same topic. And one of the things is yes, as we go through the intensives, there's a transformation that happens in each one of us. That's the self-discovery part of it, and how we go back to our backyard experience, and that's a self-discovery. But on the other hand, since it's a community that gets together with different backgrounds and whatever that’s coming from that childhood experiences, it's fascinating to see. And it's just really touching to see how other people get transformed right in front of you over a few intensives.
And that's what I want to do share a little bit because we all as part of the intensives have the experience to sit in mentor groups. We all get together, and there's a lead person who engages each of the group members. And people just... things flow out. There's an atmosphere that really touches you. It touches each individual person, and they start sharing about why they came and sometimes what has happened since the last intensive. I can go over and over. I can have several stories to share, but one of the things is that transformation from... a transformation and a manifestation of the joy you see in some of the people who come there.
The weightiness, you see a weight when they first come in, and you're checking in in the mentor group, and they start talking to you, and then there is a certain... It becomes an altar in a sense. And the healing that comes out of what happened when Joe shared or Erica shared or how it touched their hearts or touched their minds or touched their body when Kate was there, with the expression of the body experience. And you can see that in each individual person, and I see that most in the mentor groups, because there's a lot of sharing that happens. A lot of personal sharing, but at the same time, it's almost forms and altered.
[04:17] Nanette: Yes. Well, and it's also a very safe place. I mean, we're not asking people to come and bare their souls. It's just that honestly you feel safe, and until you do, you are certainly not mandated in any way to bare your soul.
[04:36] Sai: Yeah, and that also leads to when people come, they come with a certain need, may not be the right word. They come with a certain intention and literally intentions. And I love when Ms. Lark comes up and comes up during the really the very first session and that the focus on why you came here? What are you expecting? And what are your intentions?
[05:08] Nanette: So Lark, can you tell us about this intention that Sai's referring to and how you plan that out and what that means to you?
[05:18] Lark: Yeah. Well, it's the first night. It's the end of the evening after the major lectures. And I just started beginning it several years ago, and then it became a regular thing that I'll tell a story or I'll do something to help facilitate people thinking and meditating and pondering about why they're really there. They're not just there to learn material. They're there for an experience. And everybody comes usually with... Some people come with a heavy heart. Some people come there, they're joyful, but they bring their life with them to the weekend. And so I like to try to facilitate helping people to think about why they're really there.
And this last time it was about what touches your heart or what have you brought that is hurting on your heart right now. What is really a heartfelt feeling that you have right now at this moment in your life. And I encourage people to write this down. And then we have a special heart basket on the altar. We always have an altar. And they bring that and offer it and put it in the basket for the weekend. And it stays there in holy space all weekend. And I started having little gifts, little things that I could give people. One time when it was the heart center last year, I had heart cookies for everybody. When they came up to put their intention in the basket, they got a cookie.
But the first time I did it, I had told a very special personal story about how feathers came to me when I prayed for a sign to give me some comfort from the Divine that my children were being protected, and the feather was the symbol of that protection. And so I told that story at length. And so what I did was after I encouraged everyone to write their intention for the weekend, as they brought their intention up and put it in the basket, I had a vase full of feathers. I had ordered some, but a lot of them were turkey feathers that someone had given me. You know, those are big feathers. So I had this big vase of feathers, and I just held it there and invited every person who came up to take a feather with them to help them to remember that they're being protected and that there are signs of wonder and symbols that we can all find in our life that will be meaningful to us.
It's like when that thin place breaks in and you certainly find something that is a message from the Divine. And those those feathers were that message for me. And so as people came up, they didn't just grab a feather and walk away. They looked at me. They looked at that vase. They looked at the feathers. They carefully chose because sometimes their fingers would go from one to another until they could find the one they wanted. And they would look at me and some would say thank you. But everybody has a wonderful smile on their face. And it was like looking into the face of their soul child.
And it just touched me deeply to see the vulnerability of everyone and the joy that they felt for a few seconds there of becoming a child and choosing something very special to take home. So I think the intentions are important to set the tone for the weekend, but they have become a real blessing for me to be able to witness the transformation that you spoke outside. For a few seconds there, every one is transformed. And of course that's what we pray for for the weekend for everyone.
[09:00] Nanette: It's a beautiful invitation every time at the intensive that I look forward to focusing on exactly why it is on there and what I hope to get out of the weekend. And as many of us know and as we have hopefully grown in our spiritual path that it does help us to daily have an intention, to set intentions about what we hope and what we're looking for.
And it is especially impactful to do it on this weekend. I'm always touched by your story, Lark, and what the transparency that you bring to it and the love that you bring to it. I still have that feather on my desk at home.
[09:47] Lark: Oh do you?
[09:48] Sai: I do too.
[09:49] Nanette: And so how these small mementos become touchstones for us down the line, to remember those experiences and remind us of the progress that we've made and what our intentions have produced.
[10:04] Sai: I remember one time for the body, you have some parts, right?
[10:08] Lark: Yeah, those little...
[10:10] Nanette: Little like, charms. Little charms.
[10:14] Sai: Yeah. For different.... And I mean, those are such touch points. I still have it. I think what I wanted when I brought up the topic of intentions, and I had you speak here, one of the things that came is how the weekend is set for that transformation in the individuals who are participating, and I get to see that when I'm part of the mentor group as people share.
[10:45] Lark: Right. Carries over. We set the intention. We have like is it at the heart or the body center or the mind? We set it at the beginning, and then you’re right, we reinforce that all weekend. And then when you have the intimate mentor groups, then you really see that that has been percolating in everybody, and that they're able to share deeply about that.
[11:09] Sai: Yeah, I love that. I love that part of the intensive when these stories, in fact, the whole weekend, and probably rest of the year and rest of the experience, you know how those things touch people. One of the other things I want to bring about on the transformational side of it is, I think that transforms, for me personally before I talk about other experiences I hear, that transformation in our responses to other people's responses is tremendous. What people are throwing at you, let's say, of families or employees and how you respond to it. I mean, that is such a transformational thing for me.
The main thing is I look at that person so differently. And I think that's what we call consciousness. We become so conscious of the other person. And we go from being selfish to selflessness in a way that for me, that has been very transformational. I've started looking at people differently, situations differently. And for me, that has been pretty transformational.
In other people, forgiveness, I hear a lot of that. What intensive or what the Enneagram has done in their life is being able to forgive. To be able to let go is a huge thing I hear among a lot of the people I get to hear in the mentor groups and at the intensives. The transformation has been in that format for them. So I just love... I mean, transformation in you, Nanette. It's just been...
[13:01] Nanette: A God send. A blessing. Saved our marriage.
[13:05] Sai: I don't think it's about saving the marriage. Bringing peace in our lives. It's transformational.
[13:13] Nanette: It's given us a language certainly to communicate with one another, to understand one another, to help us defuse things that would normally have triggered us. Yeah, it's been huge.
[13:26] Sai: Yeah, in our family.
[13:32] Nanette: Certainly as parents, it's equipped us to be better parents.
[13:35] Sai: Yeah. And for me, me and Nanette's life, and how Enneagram has transformed us has been... Sometimes you have to do the work yourself to be able to get to a point and be conscious of what you're saying, what you're doing and what your surroundings are. And it's a work that you have to do. And I think when Nanette and I, not that we had any issues in marriage or anything, it just challenges in life, dealing with other people. And you know, she would come to me "What do I do about this family situation or that situation?" I know, and I don't have all the answers and the answers I give sometimes are not sufficient to alleviate the situation or bring peace.
And so what Enneagram has done in each of our individual lives, it's brought us that self discovery that we talked about, to be able to move into a zone of consciousness that brings... I would go as far as that we can affect world peace or love around the world and how we can send the vibrations around the world. I just dream about it, and I just challenge you to dream about it. What could happen if all our hearts are in sync, our minds are in sync, and minds that are moving in consciousness. Just like the body. If you're all dancing in sync, how beautiful it would look. And I think that's the message I would like to say is transformational. Getting in sync is beautiful to me from an overall of looking forward.
[15:36] Nanette: And it's the truth of so much spiritual work that we normally don't come to it until there's a certain frustration, disappointment, rejection, loss, grief, something.
[15:54] Lark: Shock point.
[15:55] Nanette: Yes, shock point. Absolutely. And so, yes, I think that if you're out there listening to our discussion here, maybe you think this is too pie in the sky, that maybe the Enneagram can bring world peace. But it is true that once we find the peace in ourselves, that when we work through our shock points and realize the gifts that they are to us, and the transformation that can be found in them, that we can really affect change in ourselves, in our families, in our communities, and that will have a multiplying effect. So we believe that the work that we are doing really can change the world.
So all that to say is really we invite people to join this community, who may have an interest. And you don't have to be at a good place in your life. You could be in the middle of the shock point and the middle of the grief and the middle of the pain. And we believe that there is wisdom in our community from the Holy Spirit, from the Divine that we believe can really assist you.
[17:17] Sai: A friend of ours, just as we wind down of hours... He always asks us to dream at the end of a discussion or whatever, and said, "Dream and dream this or dream that," and then he says "Why not?" And that's the challenge, I would say why not for our own lives, in our own families, in our own communities, and extending to our own countries and beyond? Why not? Nanette, I think you've touched a lot of things today, and I'm excited for the next intensive.
[17:55] Nanette: Yeah.
[17:56] Lark: That's right.
[17:57] Nanette: Yeah. Yeah. Joe, any closing words for us?
[18:00] Joe: I like what you said about language, Nanette. A lot of times couples don't have a language that is a ladder out of the darkness that we get into. And when we have language like ego, when we know we are overwhelmed by our egos, sometimes just to say, "Gosh, I guess I'm in my ego now."
And then maybe you want to say I'm sorry, or whatever afterward, but just acknowledging to your partner, that you know what's going on. And you can also say, I think I'm in my soul right now. I feel wonderful. And you're sharing that with your partner. And I think that is an enriching and beautiful part of the language that you mentioned that comes from within.
[18:56] Nanette: Well, and I have found sometimes it really helps to support your partner when you have an understanding. Yeah, maybe they're disintegrating, and maybe they're falling apart. And I understand that, and I can just give them space to do that. And understand it and not have judgment for it or accusation because you just know that this is the way that they've been kind of wired. And that if they're doing the work, Holy Spirit will really help them have a realization and to support them hopefully to come in to higher levels of consciousness and to travel towards their path of integration.
And I think Sai has helped me on a number of times to do that and I have learned to do that for him as well. So the empowering message that we have taken away from ICB has been that there is a higher way to be. It's in our soul child. And that has ultimately been transformative for us.
We're so thankful for ICB and for everything that you and Dr. Joe and Lark have meant to us and to the school and to those that you've mentored, and we look forward to a growing and deepening community. So thank you so much for joining us this week.
[20:26] Outro: That wraps up another episode of The Real Enneagram, brought to you by the Institute for Conscious Being. If you're interested in furthering these conversations, please reach out to us through our Instagram at @TheRealEnneagram or if you're interested in our upcoming trainings or other resources, please visit our website, www.instituteforconsciousbeing.org. Thanks for listening.