PT Launch Lab — The UK Personal Trainer Podcast

Royal Marines & Afghanistan to Personal Trainer (Industry Truth)

• Callum Brown and Ryan Robinson • Episode 29

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0:00 | 47:40

Jerome Scherrer spent his teenage years and most of his 20s in the Royal Marines. When he left, he spent four years working for the American government in Afghanistan. Then he became a personal trainer.

In this episode, Jerome breaks down the philosophy he's built over years of coaching — and pulls no punches on what's wrong with the fitness industry, why most PTs are still winging it, and what it actually takes to build a coaching career worth having.

 

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5SsHmySSEs

🎯 Thinking about becoming a personal trainer?

Take the free PT career quiz: https://ptlaunchlab.co.uk/quiz

 

📞 Ready to start?

Book a call: https://ptlaunchlab.co.uk/book-call

 

🎓 NCFE Level 3 Personal Trainer Course:

https://ptlaunchlab.co.uk/courses

Follow PT Launch Lab:

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SPEAKER_00

Hello everybody, welcome back to P2. Welcome to that and today. I am joined by Jerome. How are we doing, mate? Hello? Thanks for coming over. Um so just at a glance, uh obviously we we try and look at everybody that comes in and just try and get an idea, so we've got some talk points. So former Royal Marines, uh, you've got a number of years experience in other sports, powerlifting. How long have you been in the industry now, fitness?

SPEAKER_01

IPT in 2019.

SPEAKER_00

2019. Yeah. So was that how much of a gap between you leaving the military to get into fitness injury? Was it the first thing you did, or did you find it?

SPEAKER_01

No, I left the military in 2014 and then I worked for the American government till 2018 uh in Afghanistan. Money, gun, gold, and drugs.

SPEAKER_00

So why transition into PT from there? Because I imagine the money was good.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the money was good, but I didn't want that life anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You live in an abnormal life, but you think it's normal. It's not normal to do that anymore. And and you you kind of leave the Marines and you think you know everything, but you just lived in this little protected bubble. Since I was a teenager, you know, I joined as a teenager, I spent all my twenties there, most of my thirties. I'd never I'd never been to a coffee shop. I'd never been up for a meal.

SPEAKER_00

Normal life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you you don't understand what that is. Yeah. And then you leave and you come. Well, I came to York to live my brother's sofa because I know where to go. You live on your sofa and you still think you're in the core, but everybody thinks this guy's got something wrong with them, but you're just trying to still be who you think you should be.

SPEAKER_00

So, I mean, I've always been interested in people leaving the military, not necessarily just being in there, but leaving. How long did it take you to reacclimate to normal life or what we consider normal life to be present in that?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I would say I'm still doing that now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I'd say I'm a lot better. I'd go with eight years ago, I met my missus who were currently married, and she proper saved me. She squared my way. I haven't drank alcohol for coming on nine years now. So stop that. Fantastic, I know you'll be able to do that. Um God dash hound. Yeah. A dog will help you. Yeah. But it's that Peter Pan life, and I wrote a little I wrote a I like to write. So I wrote this PDF, just sits on my laptop, and I call it the Neverland Theory. And when you're in the military or the core, you live the Peter Pan life. You know, you're chasing Tinkerbells around Plymouth, you go into pubs, you're eating buffet, it's just a game. And then you go on tour, you do your thing on tour, you come back, and it's just this reconditioning of the cycle. Go chase Captain Hook, come back, chase Tinkerbell. And then when you leave that bubble and Peter has to come back to the reality of life, he doesn't really know what to do. And the people you knew at that time, they either stay or go, or they go back to where they come from, which is some random place in Britain or Scotland usually, and you just left on your own.

SPEAKER_00

So when you moved into fitness, then did it sort of fill some of those gaps that you felt were missing in terms of because I imagine you were a very disciplined person in a lot of ways, and I can't imagine there were many jobs out there that were gonna fulfil that need. So is that why you chose fitness?

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna be completely honest with you. When you're a boot neck, all you know is fizz fighting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right. Well, you got three options. I chose fizz, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I mean? Yeah, I chose fizz, and I quickly realized that nobody wants to join the Royal Marines and they don't want me trained like it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then you're like, I don't even have a business, this isn't even a business. I'm just trying to give people a workout. And I'll go into like the the evolution of where I'm at now to where I began because I always look back on this sliding scale of the ecosystem of where we sit as trainers, coaches, educators, and then you've got your top 1% you talked about that you know might be training Manchester United or lead rhinos. At the beginning, I was just given workouts. I was like my first ever client, she worked as the house, she was in charge of the cake. It's like this with its to basically roll out food that they want to put into the bigger shops. I absolutely thrashed her and nothing changed. And then she was like, I don't know what this is, and I was like, I I don't know what this is either, so I'm not gonna lie to you. Yeah, and then you just have to try and figure that out, and it wasn't actually till I met the missus, and she was like, You could be a lot better, you just need to look at what it is you want to do. And she pushed me into the idea that I could be better and I could go and get education, and so I just started from that moment uh going to whoever was at the top, expediate that process, same as the military. If you can join the Royal Marines of the Paris Regiment, join them. Why not? So apply that to you know who is gonna be the formal guy in that field that I need education from, and that's where it started.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think the obviously we are an education company? How important is education when it comes to a professional service like this?

SPEAKER_01

I think you have the two sides of the coin. I think you need the education to start in this in the industry. You need to understand what this is, you know. I think the more you develop, you need more education because you're going to push into what it is that you want to do more of. But experience on the floor and training lots of different people and understanding what that looks like will it push you forward. But don't mistake experience for knowledge. Because somebody might have been on the floor for 20 years, but their knowledge is still 20 years ago, and there's a lot of that.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Yep. It's um it's a really interesting topic because a lot of the time then we're speaking to brand new people that are coming in to learn, what they want to do is they want to understand everything that's in that textbook. And don't get me wrong, if that is something you're into, fantastic, absorb it all. But the reality is, and I treat it a lot like passing your test in driving. Yeah, you can do a theory side, you can smash that, you can pass your test with flying colours, but you don't know how to drive. You need to get out there and do stuff. And I think when it comes into the fitness industry, you obviously I know that you've got a hot take on this, but the industry today, I feel like, has taken a couple of back steps in this manner because we're too now reliant on social media as a face. I think AI people are using it in a way that replaces their train of thought, they're trying to replace their effort level, and we're leaving out the the actual emotional side to training people because again, we can train people all day and give them programs and give them nutrition, but if you give that to 100 people, less than 20 would probably follow through with it. Yeah, because they don't understand why. Yeah, people forget it's called personal training, yeah. That's exactly what it is. It's um so when you started pushing yourself towards this then and the evolution, what did what have you learned in your time of being a personal trainer, or some lessons that you had during that process?

SPEAKER_01

Biggest lessons are probably humility because you learn one thing, you keep applying it, but it doesn't mean you know everything, and not one thing lasts forever, and not one thing works for everybody. I think you have to be true to yourself as well. You shouldn't get lost up in the the light box or the black mirror, because that'll only reflect on what it is that that wants to show you.

SPEAKER_00

Explain that to me then. So, what do you mean by these two concepts? I know you won't we you were gonna choose, buddy. So, what do you mean by these concepts? The light box and the black mirror.

SPEAKER_01

Oh. That's the phone, isn't it? So you know, essentially, it's just the light box, just a box of light. Doesn't really mean anything, it's just showing you pictures of what it is you think your own reality is. Yeah. And the Black Mirror is a programme that was on BBC 2, I believe, or Channel 4, yeah, where it was like a paradigm universe of what people were seeing and when they were living. And there's this idea where you look on social media, any of the platforms really, and it'll just reflect on what you want to see. And I think that's become detrimental to a lot of things. It's a powerful tool, don't get me wrong. Yeah, it's very powerful.

SPEAKER_00

It has it has so many benefits, but it can also come it's like we anything, you know. If you overtake medication, it's not medication anymore, it becomes something that's harmful. And you know, I even to this day, ever since having my daughter, for instance, I had to really try and understand a lot more about how much I use my phone. Because, you know, when you're self-employed, you're always working, your brain's always working. Um, I noticed it without even knowing. I was looking at my phone for updates, even notifications that weren't mattering to me anymore. I was checking for notifications and you're seeking the next step, the next approval, the next buzz. And you realise you separate yourself from the real world, yeah, you know. Um, and I think everyone gets hooked on that. I think no one is a hundred percent clean from that. I don't think you can be, it's not the way the world works now, but especially like with how you explained it, the the the light box theory is we can put it down at any time, and whatever's on there is what we chose to see and what the algorithm tells you they want to see. And so you were you were talking a little bit about how you worked with your clients and tried to get them to realise some of these negative aspects of that. Yeah, what was your idea and how did you run that?

SPEAKER_01

Um, what I used to do was, and I still do now, but I do it through a uh a spreadsheet, is I build uh a wheel and we have the six pillars that hold up the wheel essentially. And if you can't fill those six pillars of who you are and what it is that you want, then you have something missing in your life, or you have something missing that in your purpose. Because we all have passion, we all have purpose, but without that, you you're not able to take them forward. Because, like I said to you in the beginning, is like the gym is just a bunch of stuff in a room, it's plastic and metal, and it's how you apply what it is you want to do with it to get the result. But sometimes the result is bigger than we are just gonna do X amount of sets and reps. The result in them having a stronger purpose for what it is that they want is what gives them that drive. So usually people will say things like family, children, but they'll lack the ability to fill all six gaps, they'll put the things they class as most important to them first, and then they lack usually the ability to say themselves.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What does it do for you? This room with stuff in it.

SPEAKER_01

The gym. Do you know what? In the beginning when I was younger, I used to love going to the gym. You know, like the feeling of like working out, you feel great, and then you get a bit older and a couple years older, and you get to like mid-40s. And I I'll be honest, I don't have that pure passion to go in the gym all of the time. But I need the idea that I need a structure and a and a routine. Otherwise, what am I going to do?

SPEAKER_00

Do you feel like that is gonna be the case? For I feel like most personal trainers have this opinion, unless you are someone who's probably might be in a sport convening in something. Everyone asks me this, and everyone assumed it's about a personal trainer because you work in a gym, because you are always around you, it's like you've always got time to work out. Like it's actually the biggest crux ever because you spend enough time there, you don't want to be there anymore. Um, so I I get the exact feeling I think no one really considers that aspect is when you turn your play into work, yeah, it doesn't become as fun. And you're doing it for, like you say, your you understand the benefits, so then you actually put yourself in the position of a like almost a beginner client in a way. You teach them the value of it first, and you know the value, you just have to practice it. And uh, we actually had this interesting conversation about if the trainer isn't practicing what they preach, should they be practicing?

SPEAKER_01

I've met some amazing trainers, coaches, and educators that don't really train, so I don't think you need to. Not if you not if you've implemented that over a large space of your time. Do you need to train five days a week now? Could you train once or twice? Yes. There's a guy called Michael Golden, absolute genius. And I went down to London and I did a whole day workshop with him. He's a an RTS uh instructor. Blok's not trained for like 10 years, probably. But he says, I only need 20 minutes to train because I'm so into tune what I need, but the knowledge that he can give you, and that's all he's really bothered about now, is passing on knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. Give one, pass it on. He's in his 50s. Does he still need to train any if does he still want to? He's been doing it since he was 15.

SPEAKER_00

But do you agree that you have got to have walked the walk at some point?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think you have to have walked the walk. I think you can't tell somebody how to squat 250 if you haven't done yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's um yeah, I but I agree with that. And it always comes down the conversation that always happens on social media now is should you be able to be trained by an out-of-shaped personal trainer? And I think that's always an interesting conversation because what do you consider that out of shape to be? Because the aesthetical profile, the personal training, if you think about it, it's usually, you know, tats, big muscles, you know, or whatever the woman equivalent is that that's not a hundred percent necessary because they could be giving you more value than somebody who's steadily off the nut who doesn't actually know how the body works. They've either got incredibly lucky or incredibly genetically gifted, and you can't prescribe that. There's there's no method for naturally having the ability to build muscle a bit easier, or you can maintain a body for a lower level, and that's not really what fitness is about. And obviously, this is another side to it with social media, it's really skewed the idea of what fitness actually is. What does it mean to be in shape?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's because perception is reality, isn't it? People perceive that that is what it is, so they perceive that as the reality of what they need. Yeah, it's a gold bar. Yeah, totally, yeah. And I don't think it's true.

SPEAKER_00

Why do your clients come to you? What do you think is your training philosophy that works?

SPEAKER_01

I think for me what I want to do is have people come to me because they feel like it's going to be a longer journey. I'm not about six weeks, I'm not about eight weeks. And there's nothing wrong with that. People are doing that, that's cool, man. That's their thing, it's not my thing. And usually a lot of my clients, however, have come from trainers previous. Um they've usually come with injuries or you know discomfort and joints and things like that. So you have that return to play protocol, and I get a lot of that as well. And then they stay because the process is interactive where everything is layered because it has to be a layering process, you know, like we talked about is complexity upon complexity. Because the human is the most complex organism in the world. And it's not that easy just to train somebody. Because anybody could go and give somebody a workout, which I did in the beginning. I could go and get a 15-year-old lad from the football pitch and say, give this couple a really good workout, and he probably could do it. But then there's the layers, isn't there? There's somebody giving workouts, there's a personal trainer, there's a coach, there's an educator, and then there's the top two percent.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, this is where I find the problem with people going straight to online coaching. Because you haven't built up the layer of actually dealing with emotional intelligence. Yeah, actually being able to understand how someone actually works. You know, if you get that client who said they didn't complete that said workout this week and they say it's just because they didn't have time or they weren't feeling like it, to an untrained person, you're just like, you're just lazy, you're not committing to this, you're not doing it. But you know, maybe it could be the fact that it's school holidays, her kids are driving her nuts and she's getting up too early to do it. And having that emotional intelligence to know that that it's your passion, it's not theirs. They're doing this usually to accomplish something. And sometimes it at the start, for many people, they're doing it out of a punishment sense. Like, I've got myself to this stage, and I need to do this in order to feel better. Yeah, eventually the idea is you're doing it because you want to do it, you're doing it because it's a hobby. It's like going to play golf on a Saturday. Yeah, you know, it's like, oh, I'm gonna go to the gym today and do this, I'm looking forward to it. But to get to that stage, you need to build the complexity of you're doing this for you, you're not doing this for anyone else, you're not doing this for any other reason. And this is why when someone comes to you and said, I want to lose weight, yeah. Why? Why do you want to lose weight? Yeah, yeah, oh I'm I'm just not feeling good about myself. But why? Were there a point that you felt good? Were there a point that you felt at your best?

SPEAKER_01

I asked that question. Yeah, I also asked them that.

SPEAKER_00

I call it three whys, yeah, and it usually takes that layer and layer and layer because when the times get hard and you know the training gets more intense and you're more regular, because usually you have a good, good, good, good, good, and then you'll drop. Knowing the real reason why you're doing something, yeah, is what keeps you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's like I talked to someone about peeling the onion layers back, you peel it all the way back to you get to the core, yeah. And that's what you do in the beginning with the the six pillars, see where they're lacking and you pull it all back. Why?

SPEAKER_00

Why? Yeah, I had stuff in a room. So they were a learner who were having a conversation because what we do is we try and get them working with people in the background of doing the course because we want that practical element. That's very cool. And he said to me, he had this claim, and she was quite a nervous person, so he always had to train her a little bit later on in the day when it's less busy, and he says, She didn't want to complete an exercise that I put in the programme, but it's a really important exercise. I said, What is an important exercise to? There's no such thing as that if you don't do this, you don't achieve X. Anything that you do in the gym is fantastic because it's gonna get something out of it. The important part is moving, and I says, Well, just approach it differently. Ask her what she wants to do that day, and let her tell you what she enjoys, find out what she actually likes. You might be prescribing stuff that she doesn't like, or maybe she don't understand it enough. And I think training somewhere, and this is my this is the reason why PT Lawrence Lab is what it is, it's not about being the best personal trainer because there's plenty of PTs out there who have less technical knowledge than you, but are doing so much better because they're nice people, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I know I agree with you, yeah, yeah. It's totally the way that the industry should be. We should have more conversations, we should be more of a community, we should have more passage of information. I can't believe this is the first time I met you. You're a cool guy.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I like this conversation. Well, it's ever since you start podcasting where you actually get a chance to talk about it. I think a lot of people don't talk enough about this. I know. Like, I I agree with a lot of the things that you're saying, yeah, because not enough people have these conversations. You get lost in your job though, don't you?

SPEAKER_01

You turn up, yeah, you do your hours, you have to do social media, which I'm terrible at, but I do try to be better. And then you go home and then you write programs and then you write this and you read books. Yes, I still read books. I don't know if sometimes I ask that to people, I'm like, what's the last book you read? And they're like, Books? I'm like, you know those things.

SPEAKER_00

Are you a physical library and open? Are you a Kindle or a physical physical book there? Yeah, I just started getting back into reading in the last couple of years because the first time I read my daughter's story, I was fucking That's cute, man. It was diabolical. It's hard, isn't it? Because it's a skill. Yeah, yeah. And reading aloud, I got that classroom sense back. I like we had to stand up at the front, even shit. Like she was barely one, and she was looking at me like, Are you like there's something wrong with you? I was like, I need to go back. I can read again. So I've got the old Al books at all and smashing those. Yeah. Not quite ready for the art of war again yet. We'll we'll get there. We'll go.

SPEAKER_01

All right. But yeah, that's what I like about books. I was reading programming by Tudor Bomper. And the the the level of detail in that book, and forget you forget that people did it before you. People in the 80s, they didn't have the internet. They knew shit. And you look back on that and you think. There's still so much, there's still more and more on the levels of this game, you know?

SPEAKER_00

100%. And you know what? I this actually just popped to my mind the other day. The biggest bullshit I still see is people selling their programs. Like this is the eight-wee programme that got me to do this. You remember when Arnold Sweisinger released a book of all the training that he did to win all of his competitions, and the he sold millions of these books because people were buying them and were like, oh, I can look like Arnie if I buy his book. And you think, oh, that was in the 80s. People still do it now.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I think that's a great conversation because you can sell your workouts to people, but it's not gonna work. Yeah, because it's just a workout. Programming that's a conversation that I do like, because I do like program. Programming is this thing where you could go and buy a really good program off the internet. Let's go. You're gonna go buy a Jeff Neppert's program. You could do that, and then you could buy a huge nutrition package and probably get somewhere. Yeah, good. Right? But the nuances are in the details, and is that nuanced for you? Is it is it the program for you at that time? Do you even understand it? That takes you back to the conversation about exercise. Is there a best exercise for that? And what I do with my guys is do I do I want them to deadlift or do some kind of hip binge? Probably. Are they ready for it? No. So what does a deadlift what is a deadlift? What is the components of a deadlift? It's hip extension, some knee flexion, lats, thoracic spine, glutes, hips. So break it down, let's go single leg leg curl, dumbbell roll, single arm lap pull down, bear crawl, reverse lunge. I've got five exercises there that I could probably could control and do with somebody that's new to the gym and they're dead, like thinking they don't know it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's the same as when you go to a Mission of Star restaurant and he he brings out four different parts and it's apple pie, but it's broken into four different things, and you're like, What is this? Yeah. But that tastes like apple pie. I can't figure it out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But he's done that for me. So what you're saying is these solar programs is just a fancy. It's just fancy. That's all it is. It's just it's got some nice graphics on it. It says, you know, if you do this, and I always love when they sell new programs like this is the perfect for you know, reps in reserve or this. People when people hear abbreviations, they don't understand it's like, oh, this is a brand new system. You've been training for reps in reserve for years. That's what RPE is, it's just the reverse. Like, yeah, there's there's no such thing as because like when I even do my own programming, what I tend to do is I just try and look at more the psychology of how am I feeling that day. That'll tell you more about what workout you're gonna do. Yeah, because if it you're coming in and it says, right, you're gonna be working at 80% with an RPE of eight, well, I slept like three hours last night, I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I've got a kid, I've slept three hours. Yeah, doesn't make sense. That's what I do washing as well, and I've got to go to work, and I work in a garage as a mechanic, and I've got to lift this stuff all day.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're not gonna get that out. And even even now, for all the years I've been trading, if a client comes in to me and said she had a terrible day or he's had a terrible day, it's like, right, what do you want to do? Because it's not about me, it's not about all those hours I spent writing pro if they come in and say, Look, I've hurt my back, it hurts a little bit. Can we do something else by the leg day point? It's like, well, no, because it's part of the program. You can't come off the program because all the progress goes out the fucking window. No, of course you don't. They're paying you to actually look after them. You know, it was like you go into a doctor and say, I've got a headache. It's like, well, how do you actually feel about that? This is my prescribed plaque. Like, no, go home and fucking sleep, drink some water, you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01

Do you know what you said there when you said, How do you feel today and what it is that you want? And that's the same as coaching professional athletes in America, NFL, MLB guys, they'll come in and they'll be like, you know what, coach, I don't feel too good today. And you you've got this programme, but you're just gonna go, yeah, mate, because it's only about them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's only about them, and you've got to remove that ego and that bias. And I think there's a lot of that in this industry.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, there is, because everyone. The problem is, I I tell every single learner that is from now, you're an expert. Doesn't mean that you're an expert over everyone else. It means the people that are coming see you, you're the expert. So you should back what you say, but also be humble about it because there's always something to learn. Someone's gonna come to you with a new problem. Don't just run at it because you know what you're doing, because you've been training back and biceps and you're doing the abify stuff for five years. If someone's coming to you with a complex problem, research it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, research it or go and ask somebody that knows about it. I do that all the time. Somebody'll say, This is happening, and they'll say, Do you know what? I actually know somebody who knows a lot more about me. I'll ask them the question. Yeah, yeah. And then bring that information back. It says more about you because you're actually wanting to help. Yeah, you're not swapping your time for money, that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so what is your sort of process now, Larry? You work mainly in person, online. How do you run things right now?

SPEAKER_01

I just most of my business is one-to-one. Yeah. I've got like a couple of guys online. One is a German guy who happens to speak English because I don't speak German. That's how nice. Yeah, yeah. And the other guy is one of my old one-to-one clients who went online because I trained him for so long and he's got a young family, and it's just not convenient or financially viable for him. I never want to take somebody's money if they financially can't afford it. Yeah. Never do that. Like you're you're not there to do that, it's not your job. No, this is a luxury service, and you gotta realize that it's luxury.

SPEAKER_00

That is the key. It is luxury.

SPEAKER_01

It's a luxury service. Yeah. And I think it's a real disservice. When people are paying you the hard-end money, whether that's£20 an hour or£120 an hour, and you do a disservice to them by just making something up.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

There's a difference between randomness and specificity. Yeah. And random just doesn't work long term. That's why, you know, you can do all the workouts and all of the online programs you want. There's no specificity in it.

SPEAKER_00

There isn't. No. And especially especially with the approach that you need to take our days, because people are confirmation bias by natural state. So if you're not willing to put in the effort to bring your business forward where it's an offerable service where you give someone the option to have your service. And people aren't paying usually for what you know, they're paying for you because they like it. People buy people. People buy people. And it doesn't matter if there's someone down the road charging£100 more because they say they've got this qualification and this and they've done this for this long. People would rather invest something in someone who actually gives a shit. So if they say to you, I'm struggling this month, it's like, right, no worries. Well, how about instead of just coming to see me this many days a week, we do a little bit more online, it's a little bit cheaper, I can we can work together like that. But also, if you ever need anything, you just ask. Because there's a difference between getting clients and keeping clients, right?

SPEAKER_01

I also say that to my clients, I actually ask them quite a lot. What is your biggest? And this is like something that James Large taught me. He said, What is your biggest problem and how can I help you? And when he first explained that to me, James Large owing's frontline performance in Manchester, and he's a poly, he was trying my polyquin, and he said he asked that to one of his clients once, and they were like, My fridge is broken. Jim's like, crap, I'll get you in your fridge. So he bought them in your fridge. That's ours.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then I stayed with him for 18 years.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I suppose you can open up a little bit of a door then if you get the speech check. Like someone's coming up, the shopping was like 200 quid, like, oh fucking, here we go.

SPEAKER_01

Before you know it, you're out of pocket. Yeah, but that's what y'all said. What is your big problem right now? How can I help you?

SPEAKER_00

We're problem solvers. That's our job. We are, and that's that's the big teaching point that every personal trainer should know. You're not just there as a a mascot, you're there to what is your problem right now?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's what I love about this job, is the problems. Yeah. Is solving it. I always look at it sometimes as a jigsaw. You get a thousand pieces, you tip it on the floor. You don't start with the Eiffel Tower in the middle, you build the border, or you put all the pieces into blue, white, black, the colour, you call it organise the colours, then you look for the border, then you look for more, then you look for the middle. And if you know what, if you find a golden nugget and it's the middle, stick it in there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, of course. Because you might, you know, it's like I found that bit. And usually it's like a domino effect, right? Yeah, one thing goes well, other things will fall. Because my philosophy is if you work internally to externally, so you change the wiring of your brain, try and figure out, make yourself feel good, yeah, you're gonna look good by a byproduct. Usually you can't work the opposite way around, because a lot of people go, Yeah, I know, but if I get in better shape, I'll feel better. Not necessarily, there's a lot of people who look good that feel shit, yeah. So there's no correlation with that. And the the psychology of it, you feel good, you're gonna want to go to the gym. You feel good, you're gonna want to get up a little bit here. You want to want to drink a bit more water. And there's yeah, our job as a personal trainer, and I don't do it as much as I used to, but everybody that I do train, do it because you want to. Don't don't come here like you feel like I'm forced you to be here just because, well, you know, I paid you this money, so I have to be here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I would give them the money back.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's not why I'm here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. There was a guy called, how I don't won't say his name, but he'd pay me for to train three times a week. And he paid me the cash up front, and he kept moaning about coming. Then he was late. I didn't spend the cash, so I took the cash outside to the gym I was working at at the time and I started burning it. I said, I don't give a fuck about the money, mate. And he's like, You're a psycho, and I was like, Yeah, but you you were messing me around, mate. You've given me some money, I'm just gonna burn it. Started burning£20 out, he's never late again. But that ingrained into him the fact that I'm not here for for you just to think you can pick and choose. You know? It's a decision on you. And then I just actually gave him some money back and we didn't train anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Which is fair because he made that choice. Yeah, he made that choice. Yeah, I think um you can all people also still think that this job is not a real job. I believe that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I know. And it's and it's sad because like we should be deemed as professionals because it is a professional job, you know. And I think like there's a lot of other people and a lot of other industries get bandied into that same market as well, don't they? You know. But everybody that looks at the highest level, you know, people love sport, they love celebrities, they love everybody, every one of them has a trainer.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01

Lead United have a trainer, you know. The most famous actress in the world who I don't even know their names. I'm sure she has a trainer. But people still don't think it's a profession.

SPEAKER_00

I think what throws it off the most, and this is not throwing shade to let's say Pure Gym, for instance. The problem that I find with big corporate gyms is when they bring trainers on, they're not educating them to be personal trainers. Yeah. They're filling the floor with people wearing their t-shirts. And you know, um, every so often I like to go to a commercial gym just to get out of here a little bit, change my environment. And I had a PT come up to me and you know, I was says, uh, oh, so what are you doing? I'm doing this, doing that. And the first thing he said, Well, I can help you improve this. Alright, don't do that. Don't walk up to someone and say, I can make this better for you. Because we're we're objective. Someone walks up to you and says, You're doing this shit, this is how you do it. Immediately, you're just gonna turn off. Instead, why don't you actually treat me like a human being and say, How are you doing? How's your day going? So, are you doing that? Do you mind if I quickly show you something that might help and make it feel a little bit better? Then you lead me into a conversation. And I didn't break it down for him because he didn't want to hear me telling him what to do, he's doing this himself. But I just thought that obviously these places aren't educating these people to know just be a human being. People want to talk, you just have to break a barrier a little bit and you know, not come in and say, buy my shit, buy it, you know, you know, holding the in card machine in front of the face, going just tap it there. Yeah, because that's not gonna work. If you hold your knowledge ransom, no one's gonna buy it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think we should be sharing more knowledge. I do agree with you there.

SPEAKER_00

What is your biggest gripe in the fitness industry? What grinds your gears about it? What grinds my gears about it?

SPEAKER_01

I think the biggest thing is what we've kind of already touched on is trainers not taking their clients serious. There's they're giving you money, right? It's a luxury service, and they're just making stuff up. They've got their hands in their pockets. You could be in the top 20% by just doing something for your client, which is checking in on them, making sure they're alright, writing a program for them, helping them with what they need that day, and not just putting them on random machines. Absolutely. I'd say that's probably the biggest, and it still happens to this day. I'd say it's as high as 80%.

SPEAKER_00

Still, yeah, 100%. And I think that's just because from the outside in, personal training is as people describe it, you're just giving people a boot in the ass. And what did someone say to me the other day, you're just like a drill sergeant? I don't shout at anybody. Yeah, it's nothing like that. No, like I'm like you said in this that if you started training people like they train you in the military, you're not gonna get any customers. Yeah, that's not gonna happen, no, no.

SPEAKER_01

And that's that's the biggest sort of flawless uh fakeness about it all is that people perceive that's what you need. They think that this guy is giving them people the specific workers, but he's really just making random stuff up. Yeah, it happens all the time, and I think that's probably I think that's the biggest disservice that he could do for somebody.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, even on the opposite side of that, when someone I say it all the time, when someone says, We I'd give you a bespoke training plan, and I always want to know what a bespoke means to them because I know for a fact because we all do it, we have a template, and all we do is we adjust that template based upon the conversation that we have with that person. We know a structure that works, and it will change a little bit based on that person's experience level, yeah. But when it comes down to bespoke, that that is telling me that that'll fit them for life, and that makes no fucking sense. Yeah, like a bespoke suit or something, yeah. What you're saying is that this plan is so perfect it would not work for anybody else ever doing this program. You're saying so personal that it only would be useful to you. So if you got your friend to do it, he'd probably get nothing out of it. Yeah, that doesn't that's not true because we can't reinvent the wheel. So when people say personalised stuff, you need to be a little bit more transparent about that, going, I'm going to make it work for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's the big difference, I think. Yeah, and that's an ever-evolving situation because it doesn't stay like that, does it? It evolves any all of the programming I write, I evolve weekly. So nothing is set as months. I'll do one week, I'll look at all the notes, I'll look at all the reps, I'll look at everything that I've done, and then I'll load the next week and I'll decide on how that looks.

SPEAKER_00

What's your biggest um thing to look at at a week of training? Do you look at their RP? Do you look at their intensity? How do you how do you look at that and know which way to go with it without having to tell everyone your secrets?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, there is no secrets. There is no secrets. I would look, first of all, I would look at the notes and what did they write on those days? This felt tough today. This dumbbell roll felt really tough today, not as good as last week. I would look at that. Then I'd look at say they were barbell squatting if they're more experienced, and they're squatting and their RPEs up on the Wednesday, but it was down on the Monday because they had a rough night with the kids on the Sunday. I'm then just gonna look at that program and think, do I change the order of Monday, or do I let them roll with it again because I know Sunday might be the same? So, what I'll do then is I'll look at the rep ranges I gave them and the RPE, and I might pull the RPEs to like a five or a six on A1, and then give them something else in the middle, it's a little bit tougher. Then the squat, usually what works, I like to do is go volume one, so 10 doubles as an emo at 65-75%, and then the week after look at something like a hard triple uh a seven, and then three back offs at 75%, and move that around as needed. Um, but that's obviously different for other people because not everybody's doing those kind of exercises. No, no, somebody's goal might be to do a pull-up. That's always a big one amongst females.

SPEAKER_00

Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_01

I think because they see it as the standard of like an upper body strength in their mind, like if I can do a pull-up, I am stronger. Yeah. And I think it's a great goal, like, but then I think the mistake that a lot of guys make is to give somebody a pull-up, they think, oh well, we should do pull-ups, and they do like reverse, you know, the band ones where they do like negatives, yeah, and they do all these things, but you've not given them any of the tools to get there. Yeah, so like, can they do a dip? Because if you can do a dip, you can do a pull-up because you're in full shoulder extension. Yeah, usually people that can dip can do pull-ups because can you click and do a dip? Look at that first, and then look at the mechanics of what that is, and then spread that out. And then every week you could add in another exercise that might get them closer to a pull-up. You're not gonna start day one going, all right, yeah, we'll do.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, whenever someone wants to improve the pull-ups with me, I always look at what the the emulation of that looks like. So you can look at like pull downs, they're a great start because you're in a full extension, and then you're looking at stuff like your dead hangs as well. How long you have your grip for? Stuff where you're lengthening and shortening the muscle, being able to stay under that load, and also, and this translates to many other exercises, like you just said, just because you want to be good at that particular exercise, it's not just keep doing this until you're good. Because you know, repeating the same thing as insanity, you know, you're not gonna keep doing half a pull-up for a year to get a pull-up. What you could do is do three sets of this, get stronger, do a little bit more, then you try to go to one, and then if you get one, great, I'm gonna go back and then aim for two. Because, like you said, the philosophy is get better, get stronger in the other areas because it's like powerlifting, right? When someone says, Oh, I want to get better in my squat bench and deadlift, and then they get a program where it's like, oh, I'm doing volume split split squats, and then I'm wanting to do floor pressing, I just want to bench and I just want to squat. I'm like, yeah, see how long you can do that for before you get hurt.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you need the variability, and I think like pull-ups as well as that thing where you you kind of have to train mid-traps, kind of have to train traps, and do women want to train that? And what does what does trap training look like? What exercises you're gonna give them when you're gonna give them it? And I find that those are the those are the details that randomness misses.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So just before we get to the end then, because I always like to know what people would say. If you could give advice to upcoming coaches, personal trainers out there, if you can give them three tips to do well in this industry, yeah, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01

Be true to yourself. Don't try and imitate because imitation isn't validation. You know, be true to yourself. You know, stay on stay the course. It's like to say to a lot of my clients. Um number two would be accelerate the time. You know? Have a look at who is doing something well that you like and Have a look at those people. Do they offer seminars? Do they offer face-to-face? Talk. Can you go and pay them money to go and talk to them? I would do that.

SPEAKER_00

Pick a mentor.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Find somebody that talks to you in your language, because language is everything. It's the limit of our world. And that's how we have conversations. Me and you are talking now. If we're talking the wrong language, then we're not going to be able to move forward.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love that. And not many people say pick a mentor. And I think that should be something. Even now, I constantly look for people. Yeah. Especially people who might have a different opinion to you. That is important. Yeah, that's important, mate.

SPEAKER_01

Because that's conversation. Yeah. Otherwise you just come back to the black mirror and you're just in a face-to-face algorithm.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. If you find stuff that constantly agrees with you, you're never wrong.

SPEAKER_01

And never being wrong is dangerous. Yeah, yeah. You've got to have those conversations. And I think the last one probably would be it's just smile and enjoy it. Yeah. Like you have to enjoy it and you have to be happy. Like turn up with a with a smile on your face. And be warm and welcoming. Because nobody cares about what's going on in your life because it's only about them, like we discussed. Yeah. You're buzzing to see them. You're going to give them the best hour of their life. And that's what the job is. It's personal.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. That is a perfect way to put it. So um plug yourself in. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you? Instagram, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I have an Instagram called The Muscle Mechanics. Yeah. Um I was thinking about changing it because it's like that goes back to the conversation that when I first started this job, I was all about biomechanics and I was all about like anatomy and skeletal motion and everything. And now I'm not I am, but I'm not.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but it's also problem solving, right? Yeah, it is problem solving. I I really like the I think you should keep it. Okay, I'll keep it. If if we see it changed, obviously no hard feelings. No, I'll keep it, man. Make sure you copyright because I'm out of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I can't believe I didn't meet you earlier. You're really nice guy, man. It's good conversation.

SPEAKER_00

It's glad that people reach out like this, and we'll definitely do it again. Um, next time, obviously, we'll do it as a full team with Ryan here as well. That'd be fantastic.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because I thought like I do hide away a lot, and maybe I should just have more conversations.

SPEAKER_00

I realise this about myself. I'm a I'm naturally an introverted person. If I cannot have a conversation in the den, it will be very easy for me to not have a conversation. Uh, when I get to the weekend, and you know, like on a Friday, people are like, What are you doing this week? I was like, nothing. Yeah, nothing. I can't wait. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_01

But that's the perception of that reality, is people look at you. I mean, they perceive that you're not, but you are.

SPEAKER_00

I think it's a social energy that gets burnt out. I think being in a social job as a social person, and I think no one actually realizes until they do it, until you're constantly having conversations, you realise how little you've got left, and you've got to have some of the tank ready because you live at home with a partner.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00

You've got to bring enough for yourself up.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to have different hearts for different times, and you need to have different energies because you give all of your energy out, and we are just atoms, aren't we? Yeah, we're just gonna turn into dust one day. Like, how much are you gonna have left at the end? Because the only thing that matters really at the end of the day is family.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, absolutely. I appreciate your time, mate. Thank you so much for coming on today so much. Thanks everybody, and we will see you on the next episode.