Scaling an Online Personal Trainer Course Business (Sam, Merve EdTech)

In this episode, Callum catches up with Sam, founder of Axol / Merve EdTech, to explore the unexpected intersection between tech and personal training.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This life? Sorry. Yes. Alright. Hello everybody. How are we all doing well? So today I'm with Sam. He's the owner of Axel and Merv EdTech, and we're going to go over a little bit about his business, what he's doing, and also how he finds PT and what he looks for in a PT. But we're going to be covering a lot today. So tune in, subscribe, like, and keep watching the videos. Hello, mate. How we doing? Yeah, not bad at all. Not too bad. A bit of a weird situation for us nowadays. We're just used to talking shit during a PT session.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come in for a PT session, get sweaty and talk nonsense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

That is what PT is.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

But uh walk me through a little bit about who you are, what you do, let the viewers know.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yeah, so um, yeah, I it's it's it's a weird question now who I am. Um, but uh essentially founder of of Axel and Merv. Um I used to build ed tech products um back in um uh from for many years, build them all from scratch. Um we used to build them for big companies, work with like uh Cartoon Network and Disney and all those sort of big brands. Um and you know, obviously they'd they'd all sort of pay a fortune for this sort of stuff. We had a lot of people coming in, sort of saying, Hey, look, you know, I'm a startup, I've got no money, but I've got a great idea, it's gonna make millions. Um, and to be fair, there was a lot of rubbish that came in, but there were some people that would come in, and I genuinely believed they would be able to make a difference in education. Um, but because they've got no money, they couldn't spend sort of you know hundreds of thousands of pounds on this sort of software. Um, I thought it's a real shame that they're not able to get started and and get the sort of tools that they need. Um, and that's where that the idea for MERV came along, where I thought, if I could just build it, and we for all these big products, we were building the same thing over like if you sort of strip away the the the sort of the paint on the front end at the very back, and you've seen MERV where you can just sort of customize that is ultimately what we were doing for these big brands, but because they were buying the whole thing from scratch, we'd build the whole thing every single time. So I thought, right, I'm just gonna build the back end piece, and that's gonna be great. So uh we did that, um, and uh we went live. Um, you were the first person who went live on the platform. Um, and uh in my videos, I talk about how you just want to get out there and get started because the reality is that people, even if you're not perfect, there will be people that will still want what you're offering, and if you're being transparent about where you're at and what you're doing, and and you're just an honest and genuine bloke, I think that that is enough because that at that point people can say, Well, no, I want someone who's you know, I mean, or I want something that is absolutely perfect, and in that case you can say, right, well, fair enough. Because if you lie about that, you're just gonna go down into a road of disappointment, upset, bad reviews, bad, you know, just people will just get to know people talk, right? So, but if you're honest, and I was with you one and I said, Lutton, you're gonna be the first person that's gonna go on, there's gonna be problems, um, without a doubt. You've got my WhatsApp, give me a call, let me know. And I think that also translates with any fitness, right? Even if you're a PTM, maybe you know this, right? When you when when when you're getting started, if you're just honest about who you are, where you're at in your career, I think that builds right from the get-go a bit of a genuine connection and something that the the you know the everyone's expectations are all at the same level. Yeah, people buy from people, yeah, absolutely. And it's a lot easier to get feedback, I think, when you you you've been honest at the start. If you say at the start, oh yeah, you know, to put it into PT context, oh, I've been a PT for 10 years, you know, I'm I'm the best PT in this, you know, in in in the 10 mile radius. And then after your first session, you go, was that alright? Did I do okay? You know what I mean? They're gonna go, Oh yeah, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Well, weird. I don't I don't matter what business you're in, or whatever you do in terms of your career, I think you're always gonna have the sense of imposter syndrome, but absolutely believing in your products, so it's like it's like you say, people buy from people, and if you're constantly trying to prove yourself to people, yeah, I don't think the confidence is ever there. Rather than being up front and saying, look, we're a work in progress, but we want to work with you, we want to build with you. And I think a lot of these big companies now miss out on the key thing of if you're not working with your customers, like I imagine a lot of the big educational platform companies, so I'm not naming names, but I used them in the past where if I had a particular issue and I got in touch with a support team, and this is a very critical course, there's a lot going on, they would come back with very broken solutions, or they just say, Oh, that that doesn't work because of this, it doesn't work, and do you know it wouldn't help? Whereas throughout the time I've had in Merv EdTech, I've had constant support, and also you've seen some ideas go, Oh, actually, we might develop this and move this on. So I think your approach of just saying, Look, I'm a work in progress, but I need people telling me that stuff are wrong because I think you can almost get a little bit blindsided with your own products. Yes, like you focus on the certain amount of quality, you'll miss out on some things, and if no one's telling you those things are wrong, then you're never gonna be able to improve the products.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Absolutely. I think a lot and a lot and I know a lot of people fall into that trap. So, um, again, before this, I was a startup consultant as well. So worked with a lot of uh people that got some investors in, you know, starting up their business, starting building their products. Um, and a lot of them will fall into the trap of it's not perfect yet. Um so and and and and they would sort of they won't show it, show it to anyone or get any feedback and spend an insane amount of time and money on a thing that they're just so caught up in their own heads about what they think is perfect. Yeah. Um, and there's one in particular, it was about a year of building and tweaking and trying to perfect this thing. And after I think after the third month, I was saying, This is like you could go out to a couple of people with this, just get some feedback. No, no, no, no. Six months. Seriously, mate, like this can definitely go to some people again. That transparency, that's how you want to approach it. Got to the 12-month park, went live, and guess what? It wasn't perfect. He thought it was, he was like, This is exactly what I want. And then they went, This is weird. Yeah, what is this? And it's like, you you could have had that moment nine months before now, yeah, and you could have spent the last nine months just it's like just working on it, right? And just just improving and getting feedback. So, yeah, I think that's that's the main difference. And anyone that does come over to the the big products, and we won't name names, but you do get that, it is what it is, or if if we're not for you, then go away, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, maybe maybe someone else will will ask better products for you, and that's fine to do when maybe when you're when you're a bigger company, but the the advantage that obviously we've got now, and I think a lot of people when you're starting out is this is your opportunity to to work and and try and find try and be different, right? Try and try and actually solve a problem that nobody else is solving right now. And again, I think the same thing goes with PTs, right? If you're talking to your clients, I think a lot of PTs that have been out there for 10 years and whatever doing, what are they doing? I think they're so I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you still got the same problem where you kind of you get cemented into this is how I do it now. I've I've gone through that phase. Yeah, I'm I'm now on a day-to-day, this is how I operate. If you don't like how I operate, that's totally fine. Go elsewhere.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

But yeah, and that's what tends to happen with a lot of PTs now. So what tends to happen is they create their own bubble, and how they do it is how it works, you know, and when they're spreading information. This is the problem with social media, especially with when you're trying to teach people out there for exercise or nutrition or just even coaching skills, people get stuck in their own methods thinking that's the only thing that works, rather than coming into it with an open mindset going, no matter how long you've been doing this, no matter how long you've been in this game, there's always something to learn. And I think that obviously plays a big role in your role as well, because education the standards always change and the needs always change. So when you st how long did it take you to develop the like from wanting to do an educational platform to getting it onboarded, how long did it take you? How long's the process?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Um, well, I mean it was uh it was probably a couple of years of thinking about it, talking to people, um, and and just trying to figure out what that uh what that exact pain point is that we can deliver, right? What is the what is the bare minimum essentially that I need to be able to do in order to be valuable? Um and again, we were doing a lot of consultancy at the time, so it wasn't you know two years straight. It was when I get the opportunity to talk to someone that I think would would have some valuable information insight here. Um and then from starting to build, it was exactly a year ago, well, not exactly like roughly about a year ago now, maybe more, um, when we started actually building it. But we went live, I want to say December last year, or we no, it got just into just into January, didn't it? We just got into the new year. Um, so it was about six months to build that first version, and then obviously the last six months has been pretty like we've been on it and refining and pushing out updates um constantly. So, yeah, you know, I think the the latest update that we've just done now, I think that I'm personally quite happy with. I think that is is starting to take shape of what I had in my head at the start. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I am pretty, pretty proud of that. And I think there's a lot more that we could do, especially on the student side. That's like that's where I really want to focus. But we needed to make sure that obviously, you know, when you're building your your your platform, um that that that experience is good. We're happy with that now, I think. Um, and then now we need to, I think just versioning and something is working on, but uh the student experience is where I think there's a real advantage there because again, this is kind of pointless, and a lot of our competitors do this, where maybe the the interface where you build your course and all this stuff, that's great. But then when you actually look at the product that you're putting out there is fairly light and weak. And I think if we can make that something that you can be proud of as a as a you know, as one of our customers, and at the end of the day, you're not selling the bit that we're selling, right? That that almost doesn't matter. What what you want, I think, is is I want to have a product that I can be proud of that I can say to students, this is amazing. It's you know, we've got the best ed tech platform out there. Um, and you know, it's got all these amazing things like you know, an AI tutor, for example, all that sort of stuff, I think would just be great to get in there. And it's something that you can say that's your business. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So I mean, if you think go to a bakery, um it's like uh, you know, they're gonna want the the oven that's gonna make the best bread. They don't care about what your sales process is, they don't care about what your ordering process is, they don't care about what's like the support to some degree, but really what that baker wants at the end of the day is really nice bread. And I think for for any business, that's what you need to think about is what are people actually buying? Yep. What are they actually getting as a result of it? And and that's the bit that you want to sell. That's the bit that the the reason why they're coming to you. So I think for for you, it's the courses and the all of that sort of stuff, and that's fine. But it's that experience of the courses I think is is also key because they could go to a lot of providers out there, and it might be, you know, starting off with oh uh come into a classroom, we'll give you a you know a packet of documents, print off, or whatever. Um, and you've just created a lot of work for the students, yeah. Student experience then isn't great. So it's how do we make and uh you know, and that's what I'm thinking of is what you want is you want that student experience to be really good. So then they go away and go, I did this course, it was great, it was so easy, all I needed to do was sign up and blah blah blah, right? Um, they had you know all of this sort of stuff that helped me all along the way, and um it was effortless. So, yeah, I think, and again, with any business, that's how you translate it, which is what is what does that end user that sort of end user experience look like, and how do you make that better? And if you can do that, and and again, the only way I think you can do that is by getting feedback, you can have an initial idea, okay. I think this would be a good idea, but really it's that open communication, I think, is is the key part.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

And it well, it just puts a lot of value in your product as well, because every time we've had a podcast and we're talking about even the sales side of things, you should never really have to give a price, it's more about you're selling the value rather than the ticket. Yeah, because good like going back to a bakery, if you're walking to a bakery and there's two bakeries side by side and you're buying this certain bread and that's three pounds, and then the one next door is only one pound, are you going to be swayed by the fact that well, that bread's cheaper? Well, that this bread is nice, it's been cooked longer, it's but and it's even though the analogy is just about bread, it makes sense because when you're having these talks to the customers, to your clients, to whoever you're working with, if you immediately try and go for the price going, well, these guys charge this and we charge this, so you're already better off. Yes, that's better for the pockets, but in terms of value, like I would rather pay more for something that is going to give me exactly what I need and more a lot of the time, and also you're dealing with people, and I think this is where you've got the advantage, and this is where I think we've got the advantage as well, as a course provider, is when you get onto a lot of course providers or um educational platforms, you're never really dealing with people, you are dealing with chatbots, email systems, and you know, it takes a long time to get through to a real person, yeah. Whereas, right from what you said from the start, you're just a bloke, you want to speak to people, you want to have those conversations because it not only improves your business, it just creates relatability because everyone's trying to achieve something in that scenario. You're trying to scale your business, and this client or student is trying to get qualified and trying to move on with the life. Yeah, and you both need to get something out of that. Otherwise, what's the point having a business at all? And I think that's why businesses struggle so much nowadays, they're trying to cut out that customer relation part, and just because it's easier, you're not actually going to scale because people like to buy from people.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Absolutely. Yeah, and I think that's where you know there's gonna there's gonna be a shift, and there always is, you know. You look at um so what one analogy I always use quite a lot, or more recently, is if you've used Canva before, right? When Canva started, can you imagine what was what they were facing at the very start? Which is well, we use Photoshop, can it do this? Can it do that? Can it do this, right? But if you've used both, you know for a fact, right? Photoshop is incredibly hard to use. Yeah, like it does take a lot of effort to get to a like and a lot of training, a lot of learning to get to a point where you can actually get something good out of it. Canva, like I can guarantee my grandma who can only figure out how to use solitaire, right? She could probably figure out Canva. Yeah. And I think that's that's kind of the difference. Do they have as many features? No. Do they have is their price point better? Okay, the price point's better. But it's that experience of when you're just getting in, you you can get started and you can feel like a you know an absolute hero in terms of you know being a graphic designer with having very little skills whatsoever. Yeah, I've got a friend of mine, I put him onto it, and this guy's got like the creative power of a rock, man. Like he's he's far from creative, but what he's actually been able to output now in terms of branding stuff, I just it's it looks decent. It's not, you know, it doesn't look like he's just brought on you know 100 grand, you know, design and branding agency or anything, but it's good enough, yeah, and it's cost effective as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Absolutely. Um, like we always talk about tools of the trade, and especially for social media, you do have to have some type of branding, and you don't have to go as far as saying, you know, you're like you say, you have to go on Adobe Photoshop and learn all this and learn all that. There are easier apps out there, there are easier things you can use, and it's just more about creating the easiest path for yourself where it's not just about the quality of the content, it's how much content you have. And you know, if you're going for speed, especially like when you're dealing in a time where you've got competitors and stuff like that, it makes more sense to have an easier platform to use where you can pump this out and get it done because you know if you have that really one great photo that you spent six to seven hours doing, and then you know, you got Billy Joe who went on Canva and pumped out ten of those, and they're all roughly in the same place of quality. What you're gonna get more out of, you know, you're going for volume, and yeah, I mean, with um so how big is your team now? Because when every time I come to the office and see you guys, I'd like barely lift the head from the screen because they're all working so hard. But your team's grown substantially, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Well, yes, we went so that was actually that's an interesting point. Um, and again, if you if you sort of if you're following me on LinkedIn, and I'm trying to do YouTube as well, but I've got most of my audience is on LinkedIn anyway, so it's easy just to post there. But um I do I do post about being honest about how things are. So we did hire, um, and we hired in way too early. So we were trying to grow and grow, and we thought, well, let's get more people on and get more stuff done. But the the thing is without cash, your business is basically dead. Right? No, you can't do anything when you're sat there going, should I buy a microphone for 20 quid? And you're going, Well, probably not, but actually, that's probably a really good investment. Um, you should still be able to do that, and you need cash to grow. So we made the mistake of hiring way too early. And luckily, those that we hired, we said, and we said, Look, we've got some cash flow problems. There's I don't want to be in a situation where I've got to drop you in a minute. So this is what's happening. Please find another job. Um, and it was not a pleasant day at all. Um, that was probably the hardest day I've ever had, and I didn't sleep at all that night beforehand because I like the guys, they're solid, and still now I'd go to a go to the pub with them every single day of the week. Um, so yeah, if you're out there and you're looking to hire, seriously think about it. It's it's it's such a huge commitment. I think it's more of a commitment to hire someone than it is to propose to you, misses. Like, yeah. If there's it's it's you got someone else's life in your life. Yeah, yeah. If they you if if you've made that decision rashly, which we did to be fair, um, and there was a lot of bad circumstances as well. So we did have cash coming in. Um, we lost a huge client as well um to turn uh the new year as well. Um, so there was a lot of problems all sort of landing in at once, but it was still quite quite a risky move to make. And but we thought, look, risk it for a biscuit, right? That's that's kind of where we were at. And uh yeah, so look, I think everyone makes everyone makes mistakes at the start, that's fine. It's how you recognize them and rectify them. If you start burying problems, they're just gonna buy you in the ass ten times worse. You just if you as soon as you feel it's a problem, just get on it and solve it.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

So that's an interesting point. So as a business owner, and especially as someone who's developed a company, really good advice for people out there. If you could go back right to the start, knowing what you know now, what are some things that you'd have done differently in terms of scaling?

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Yeah, so there's a there's a couple of things that we did that I wouldn't have done again, and I I sometimes flip-flop on these. Um so the first one was we brought on a sales uh uh uh lead generation company really early on, and they were they were pretty expensive. But in my mind, and they had a really good sales pitch to be fair, right? They were spend this much and you'll make this much after. And I thought, I was like, I don't know if I could swear on bullshit, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, see, that's what happens to me all the time now when you when you get these ads pop up or they get a recharge code, work with me completely free. I'll only take a commission basis, yeah. And like, oh, okay, that sounds great, and then you get screwed over like two or three times, like, I don't trust you.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah, that's it. So, I mean, these guys were um you know, professional company had great reviews, and I think if we were more of a mature company, we we probably would have had more success from them. But because we were a startup, and then because of their approach was very much geared towards well-established businesses, like if you were doing um uh I don't know, like I don't, yeah, it you're you're a plumber and you've you've you've already got a full you know outfit, you've got three or four staff, you're kind of ready to scale, loads of good customers, loads of good reviews, you've got your whole business plan and and process down. Um, yeah, they would have helped you do that without a doubt. But because I was going into that as a more of a I need to be able to speak to customers, I need to be able to get to know them, understand what their business is, um, really get stuck in um in order for me to make my product better, right? And my offering better and how we onboard customers better, right? You you've you went through the onboarding, it's YARKL, you sound like you signed up, yeah. All right, sweet. Yeah. So that all of that we're trying to get better, you know, improve on on now and and just make a better experience. Um, so yeah, going into and again, my my experience has always been more of a corporate environment where it's um, you know, there's tons of money to play with. If I want to blow 15 grand on Summit, worst case scenario, I'm gonna go seriously, I'm just spending 15 grand on that. And I go, Yeah, sorry, mate.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Difference is now it's oh that that that's that's a lot of money I've just blown on on something that I've not really got anything out of. We did get we did get a few customers out of it, um, but we we would we're probably not gonna make our money back for like, I don't know, if they stay on for four years. We might make our money back. Um, so yeah, it's it's one of them. So that was the first mistake that we made. The second mistake that I think we made was we went too big too soon. So we tried to do an awful lot that actually we didn't need to go that hard that quickly. We could have probably done done with a little bit less of the functionality, but I mean you tell me, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if we if we scaled it back a little bit but perfected what we had, we probably would have A, gone live sooner and started getting customers sooner, or B, we would have had a better product when we go live and probably had a better experience for everyone that did come on board. So I think that was one of them. But again, I did still fall into that trap. And while I do say, look, you know, go out there and get I still fell into that trap of it needs to be kind of perfect, or we need to have this, and we've got to have that move. And I think the reality is actually, I could have you know gone live and said, Look, this is what we've got now, this is what's coming soon. And you probably would have been like, Well, as long as it's got that bit, I'm alright. Yeah, yeah. Um, so uh yeah, that was that was the other one. Again, hiring too soon, that was another one. Um, I've heard this advice a thousand times, um, and yet I still made the same mistake, which is uh signing up for uh an office space was probably another too soon as well. But again, we had this had a sort of a really big client in, we were making loads of money, so it was it was alright. Um, but still, and it is good when we go into the office because it does make a big difference. Um, being able to actually just sit down and work. I mean, you came in and we sort of did a bit of a this is how things are going, let's get some feedback, let's do some user testing. So we have had arguably more out of that spent expense than um a sales leap sort of generation guy. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, so there's there's loads of mistakes that you'll make as you go along. Um I kind of think I there's this there's tons. Um but uh yeah, I think they're the three big ones. Keep your costs super low to summarize. Um that's key. I think your ongoing costs or your liabilities if you're starting a business, that needs to be as low as you can possibly make it. Yeah. Like it, you know, it's it's you don't need anything flash to start with. In fact, people will be, and again, you've got to remember where you're at. Your customers at should be at this stage pretty friendly. They know where you're at, they know what stage you're at. So if you're if you're training in it in someone's garage, like if you've got a garage at home or your mum's house, or like somewhat like that, people aren't gonna care. No, and they don't that's not what they want.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

I think it's a really good point as well, because I think the quality of service at the start will never reflect, you know, it's not as if you're trying to go for a big brand. You're trying to just tell people that this is what I want to do, this is who I want to work with. If you fit this category, I can help you. Yeah, and you know, I think with any business, especially, especially starting out, your first group of customers anyway, they get the best. They should do because they're gonna be your jumping off point, they're gonna be the people that are telling other people that are writing reviews, testimonials, that they're creating the they're creating the platform for you to jump off. And and no matter what business you're in, but obviously I'll relate it back to PT, when you're getting onto the gym floor or getting online or whatever you're doing, you need to really put as much effort into giving that client the best service you possibly can because they're going to be your jumping off point. And this is what I say when you start doing all this, you're not really gonna make much money to start with, and but it's not about that, it's about creating the business, and the business usually has to move forward before the cash flow and the money catches it up. You've got to establish yourself as a professional, you've got to let people know what you're doing, how you're doing it, where they can find you, and sometimes you can almost overshoot it a little bit, and I think like you said, keeping your costs low because you're like, oh, right, I'm gonna get my branded t-shirts, I'm gonna get I'm gonna pay for a really expensive website, I'm gonna go on Google Ads, I'm gonna like I'm gonna hire somebody to and it'll work in terms of projection, and your your brand will start moving around, but people are gonna see it and go, Oh, I don't know what that is, move past it. Rather than seeing somebody and seeing a testimonial, like this is what we say when you're selling a product or selling a service, sell what the service can do for the person rather than what it is, you know. Don't put a price tag saying these PTs charge this much, but I only charge this, so by me, instead saying I can give you this, I can help you with this, and I can get you to where you need to be. People are going to find more value in that.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

And people aren't stupid as well. They know if someone's looking for a PT, they know how much PTs are. And from my experience, it's you talk to your mates, right? Your mates go, I got this PT, you know, it was best decision I ever made.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Well, it were your missus, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Well, it was, but things like my missus started looking for a PT because our friends, one of our friends, got a PT and they were like, you know, coming around going, Oh, yeah, you know, best decision ever made. And it was like maybe we should look at that. And it's like, how much do you charge how much do they charge? And so like people already have an idea of how much a PT will cost. Um, and that's that's one thing that you should probably know is how much RPT is in the area. There's nothing wrong with, and you're probably gonna hate this, but there's nothing wrong with calling up PTs, pretending like you're looking for a PT. If you're gonna start out, no, go, I uh looking for a PT, I'm in wherever town, uh uh how much do you charge? Just get a rough idea, people in your town, how much they're charging, and just go for average. And again, even though you are not offering the same level of service, but what you're kind of promising is uh like what you were saying, it's it's that that sort of first customer experience thing. If you go too low and you're sort of shopping around for PTs, and you meet one guy and he's like, Oh yeah, I work out in my garage, but trust me, bro, we'll be fine. Um, I'm 20 quid a month. Trust me, bro. Yeah, it's like immediately I'm I'm turned off, right? Yeah. Like I I there's no way am I getting like it's just you could be the best PT in the world. As soon as you tell me you're gonna be 20 quid a month and I get two sessions a week, I'm gonna be like, there's no there's no way this is gonna be any good. It's like like think about your barb, like you if you went into a new barb shop, you were shopping around, and your barber goes, Oh yeah, I'll cut your hair for a two quid. Yeah, there's no way you're letting it put your clippers near your head. No way.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So just before we finish, then I want to run some quick fire questions because I think people want to know what business is like and how to run a business and some tips. So we're starting out in a business. What would be three things that you tell them to do straight away from establishing a business?

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Uh research everything that you could possibly do. Um uh, you know, speak to other people in in the industry. You can be super friendly as well. There's no reason to be competitive. Um, just go out there, ask questions, learn everything there is to know, you know, what are the price points, what are people doing, what's the onboarding experience like? What's the actual experience when she started? What tools are people using that make their lives easier? People are willing to share. If if if if anyone's looking to start a similar product to mine, um, I'm not gonna be upset about it if you reach out to me and say, Hey, I'm gonna compete with you, I think I can do a better job. But I'd love to know sort of where you're gonna start because the reality is there's that many people in the world, there's enough to go around. Um, and you'll probably make better friends and better connections being that kind of person that's willing to help than the kind of person that's gonna go, no, you're on your own, you're not, you know, I'm not not giving you any advice, blah blah blah. People are happy to do it. Everyone, I think most people are, and if people aren't, sodom you'll make you'll make some really good friends doing it that way. That's number one. So, what's number two? Number two, um, again, would just be make sure you've just got some money, like it's proper like a war chest aside. It doesn't need to be hundred grand or something stupid, but you just need a bit of cash because a lot of people get into um being self-employed thinking I'm gonna make a lot of money. The reality is you're not. Um, that's that's a fact. Um, I I I've had it so many times, I've seen it so many times. Um, the reality is the first couple of years, you're gonna be so broke you will constantly think I could be working at Tesco and I'll have more money than this. That is a reality. You don't do it because you want the money, you do it because you want the lifestyle. And the lifestyle is great, that is a trade-off, right? Um, you know, I'm here in the morning, I'm doing a podcast, you know, later on I'm gonna go to shops and grab some stuff, but you know, hell, I'm gonna work tonight, right? And and I love what it is that I do. I was so depressed when I was sat in an office, working, making someone else wealthy. That's what pissed me off, and that's what made me started. Right. Um, I was under no illusion that I was gonna get to a level where I'm rich, but I like I think it's it's uh uh a way to kind of think, right, well, I'm in control. If I don't do any work this week, I'm not gonna make any money this week. And if you're okay with that, then great, right? Um, so yeah, you're gonna need money. That is that is an absolute fact. Um, and this if you are good at what you do, or you know, uh people will be willing to sort of chuck you a bit of cash and say, all right, you know, I'll lend you whatever. That is that's a reality. Um so uh yeah, and the way that I think about it as well when I started is I threw 90,000 pounds into my business, which is a lot, but it's the business that I started was an expensive business to start. Um I I I I looked at that as to say that is ultimately gonna be the same as a university degree. If I was gonna go to university and get a degree, that's how I'm probably gonna spend that in student loans anyway. So sod it, right? Best I'm gonna get the best education in the world. So, and and that's that. Um third piece of advice, I think again, just be transparent, be honest. You know, when you when you're talking to people, don't don't pretend like you're bigger than you are, don't pretend like you're you know you're someone that you're not, and that needs to flow all the way through your business. So your branding needs to be like I'm sure we've all you know, you you if you go on to um any like your your bank bank system, right? And you look at the website and look at that branding, and it's oh we're super friendly, we're here to help you out, and then you jump on the call and you just get who are you and what do you want and basically piss off, right? That doesn't line up, and that's quite abrasive for a consumer. So your brand needs to match your personality, and you need to be okay with the fact that some people aren't gonna get with that brand, or some people aren't gonna like what it is that you do or how you do it. That's fine. You want the people that that that you're gonna be able to work with. Yeah, yeah. Um, if you've got uh if you've got a client that's gonna just uh you know constantly give you problems, let it go now. Like just let it go because that is not worth your time. One one nightmare customer where you just don't connect, um, and they'll find a PT that they get along with or or or or whatever. Um that's that's totally fine, and that's what I mean by there's enough to go around.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Yeah, that's a really, really good point. And I think that that actually is something that people need to know. If you want to work with everybody, you're gonna quickly realise not everyone wants to work with you. Yeah, 100%. So you not that you should create a niche straight away, but start refining the people you want to work with because once you start building that space, more people filter in into your life and into your business just from creating that space. Yeah. So, last question as a client, you've been a client to me before, you've been a client to other PTs before. What are three qualities that you'd probably look for in a personal trainer or an online coach today? Especially as someone as professional as you.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Um again, it's gotta be someone that you get along with, I think. Um and someone that you can like there's uh the the first PT I had, um it was at it was at a pure gym, and he were so hell-bent on just there was no personality behind anything, right? It were just right, today you're gonna do like 30 of them, 50 of them, uh, um, and then just tell me I'm doing everything wrong. Um it was quite judgmental and a bit like I just didn't want to go. Yeah, yeah. Like it didn't last long at all because I just always left the gym feeling shit, and it was like, that's not how I should feel. No. Um what what what I like is being able to come in. I'm actually quite excited, right? It's almost like, all right, I'm gonna hang out with Cal this morning, uh, we're gonna do do a workout. I'm gonna get nice and sweaty. It's gonna be, you know, I'm gonna get a pump on, feel good about it.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

From exercise. Just so just so everyone knows.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Sometimes. Sometimes. We've got them at money, however, you gotta make money. Well, this is what I mean. Like, we can come in, we have some bancer, we have a laugh. Um, do I do work out and I'm I you know, I I have to get get uh you know, get weighed on a monthly basis, um uh because of my medication, and and and and it's I got I could see the progress happening, right? Like it was working. Um, and even though I you know it maybe we had some sessions that weren't as hard as others, I was still coming in, I was still doing something. Um and the reality is actually when I got you know got into my work after you know getting showered going home, um I felt a lot better during the day. Like I had a lot more energy, um, I was already awake, I was, you know, I was ready to go. And and again, it was especially in this day and age where a lot of people work from home, it is I that alone I would say is is a great benefit to just get out and just have a chat with someone in the morning. Or what's your daylight? What are you looking at? You know what you're doing, and all this sort of stuff. So um, yeah, just someone like that is what you want, I think, for me. Um, and again, obviously just to show the progress. It's there's this there's there's gonna be different clientele, and again, that's where it's like, what's your niche? There's some clientele that are gonna come in and want to know, like they just want to be the next whatever Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? Like that's that's fine. And there's there's PTs that will do that, and um, not saying that you can't, but like I think for me, what was quite good was that you were able to provide what I was looking for, which was just someone that knows what they're doing, um, is able to coach me through that in a very friendly and natural way, rather than a sort of it felt like you know, I didn't I didn't feel feeling shit or dumb or anything like that. It was all right, okay, I'm not the best in the gym. Um, you know, we make jokes about you know my movability, I'm like an action man. Um we're able to have a laugh.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Yeah, you've got the mobility of uh a 1980s action man figure. He's got like three joints in his entire body, yeah, but all three of those joints move exceptionally well.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah, when they go, they go, that's it. So um, so yeah, I think that's the main point. I think is is is you want your customers from my perspective, they want you want them to actually be quite excited to get to the gym, looking forward to it. All right, this, yeah, okay, it's it's a workout, but make that workout actually fun. It's like if we go to the pub, it's it's you know, I'm not going, oh I've got to drink like five pints, that's ridiculous. Um I'm going, all right, yeah, sound I'm going to the pub. And it's the same thing in the morning. Alright, sound. I'm going in the morning, I'm going to work out, and it's going to be a big laugh. Um, so I wish I had more time for it now. That is that's the main thing. Um, it gets a bit silly. Um, I do need to make more time for it. I said I was gonna come yesterday, I didn't know. Nope. Um, but yeah, that's that's I think that's that's that's uh yeah, just be friendly. That's that's my my advice. Just and if people if you just don't click, you don't click and move on. Don't don't force something that's not gonna work. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

So what I'm gonna do, uh we're gonna put Sam's business details below. So link to the website, his LinkedIn, and also his YouTube channel. I'm gonna link it there. You can follow Sam's journey, you can follow Axel and Merv EdTech, and it's worth watching because I love seeing businesses and companies and corporations start rising up, especially people that are filled with as genuine people as you. So thank you very much for coming in. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And uh we'll see you next time. Like and subscribe, and we will see you on the next one.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Awesome. Thank you.