The Bear Cave Ep. 2 - Stefanie Donnelly

In Episode 2 of The Bear Cave, host Myles Finn sits down with Stefanie Donnelly, AISZ’s Bridges Program teacher and inclusion advocate. Stefanie shares her journey from Seattle to international schools in the Netherlands, Japan, and Croatia, and talks about building inclusive learning structures for students with intellectual disabilities.

Together, Myles and Stefanie discuss neurodiversity, advocacy, the importance of student-centered decision-making, and how AISZ is helping shape a more inclusive school culture. They also dive into the Roar & Store, Best Buddies, teacher friendships, spontaneous creativity, and Stefanie’s upcoming middle-grade travel fiction book.

It’s a warm, funny, and thoughtful conversation about inclusion, community, and the people who make AISZ special.

Transcript

Myles Finn 0:18

Wow, okay So here we are. Hi. How are you?

Stefanie Donnelly 0:22

Really good. It's been a day.

Myles Finn 0:23

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 0:24

But you know, it's Thursday and tomorrow's Friday. It's just uh, you know, time flies when you're having fun.

Myles Finn 0:29

Right. All day, every day.

Stefanie Donnelly 0:31

And we work hard here. We sure do. We sure do.

Myles Finn 0:34

All the middle schoolers are gone today, which is kind of nice. Not nice. I like the middle schoolers. It's just quieter.

Stefanie Donnelly 0:40

A little break.

Myles Finn 0:41

A little break. And then the high schoolers are all gone tomorrow, which is kind of cool. All right, so I'm here with Steph. Hi, Steph.

Stefanie Donnelly 0:47

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Myles Finn 0:49

I'm so excited that you're here.

Stefanie Donnelly 0:50

Likewise.

Myles Finn 0:51

I had my first episode with your office partner, Oliver, who's pretty cool too.

Stefanie Donnelly 0:58

He said it was a lot of fun.

Myles Finn 0:59

It is fun. It's I mean, it it's cool to like. I love all the tech and stuff. So this is always fun to get into this vibe. Um, so I know your journey. I know how you got to AISZ.

Stefanie Donnelly 1:10

Yep.

Myles Finn 1:10

But I want you to talk about how you got here. Like what got you into education and what got you. I I know. That's a big, that's a big loaded question. Okay. But what got like talk about at least talk about like what got you to AISZ specifically.

Stefanie Donnelly 1:25

Okay. So I am a special education teacher.

Myles Finn 1:28

Yes, you are, and you're an awesome one.

Stefanie Donnelly 1:30

I teach students that have intellectual disabilities, which is a kind of a rare thing in in the international teaching field.

Myles Finn 1:37

I did not know that until coming here.

Stefanie Donnelly 1:39

Yes. That that was like a Yeah, not a lot of people realize that.

Myles Finn 1:42

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 1:42

Yeah. So my work in the last couple decades has been in providing more structure for people with learning differences, neurodiversity, and learning support in international schools. Um, so this is my third international school. And I did go home for a little while in between. Two I'm from Seattle, Washington.

Myles Finn 2:07

Cool spot. It's a very cool spot.

Stefanie Donnelly 2:09

The best. Um, and I was home for two school years. No, that's not right. I was home for three school years.

Myles Finn 2:16

Was this prior to kids?

Stefanie Donnelly 2:17

Just um actually cut before coming here. So I was in the Netherlands for seven years. And then I moved to Tokyo, Japan. Yes. And I was there for a little while. And then I went home because of COVID. Uh and I was home for three years before deciding that I needed to be back in Europe.

Myles Finn 2:35

Yeah, that's a cool spot. That's a very cool spot.

Stefanie Donnelly 2:38

So um I decided to become a special ed teacher many moons ago because I just really love helping people.

Myles Finn 2:46

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 2:47

And I was a volunteer in high school, like a lot of people have volunteer projects, and I was a volunteer for Special Olympics and other organizations that have us mostly adults with intellectual disabilities. And so then I decided to make it a career, not even thinking that it would take me around the world.

Myles Finn 3:06

That's so cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 3:07

So what a surprise.

Myles Finn 3:08

So you went to school, you went to school to be a special education teacher.

Stefanie Donnelly 3:11

That's right. I have a master's in severe disabilities.

Myles Finn 3:14

Okay, master's degree. I see. That's awesome.

Stefanie Donnelly 3:16

Yes. That's so fun. Um so it's been a surprising career kind of pathway because I think a lot of teachers don't ever I didn't even know about this.

Myles Finn 3:27

Right.

Stefanie Donnelly 3:27

And now I'm here and we've I have a little family and we've been abroad for I don't even know, 10 years.

Myles Finn 3:35

For mo like for all the girls' life, right?

Stefanie Donnelly 3:37

My girls were born abroad. Yeah, they were born in the Netherlands.

Myles Finn 3:39

That's so cool. Yeah. And then you went back and then came here.

Stefanie Donnelly 3:41

Yeah, we went home just for a for a little moment. But it was good to remember what public school teaching is like. And there's some pros and cons. I think like in one way, there's for s for special education, there's a lot of really great systems that already exist because they have to.

Myles Finn 4:00

True.

Stefanie Donnelly 4:00

Whereas in international schools, a lot of time the systems are like being built and developed.

Myles Finn 4:07

And you've gotten to develop a lot of what's happening at AISZ.

Stefanie Donnelly 4:10

That's right.

Myles Finn 4:11

Did you start did you start the program? You start the British program here?

Stefanie Donnelly 4:14

That's true.

Myles Finn 4:15

Dude.

Stefanie Donnelly 4:15

Yeah.

Myles Finn 4:16

That's so cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 4:16

That's what my work is. That's amazing. I know. Yeah. So, and I've done it before. So I kind of already knew the things that needed to be in place.

Myles Finn 4:25

Make sure that you're talking to the right people, like all of that stuff.

Stefanie Donnelly 4:28

Yeah. And, you know, like thinking about how we build inclusive school culture for the greater community as well is really important. So um it's one of one of the pieces is like how do we make sure that students that are neurodiverse and have disabilities are getting what they need. But then also how is it reflected in the school?

Myles Finn 4:49

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 4:49

And how does um the inclusive culture shape their experience?

Myles Finn 4:56

It ends up affecting it also ends up affecting students that are not neurodivergent.

Stefanie Donnelly 5:01

That's right.

Myles Finn 5:02

Which is which is amazing. You gave a presentation about this like a month ago, a couple months ago. True. That was talking about how when you're when you're helping one student, you're helping all students. And that was like such a it was an impactful way for me to look at it because I have not be I don't know if it was just like a lack of education in Iowa, but like I was not really taught how to work with students with with different disabilities or with different abilities. Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 5:27

Most teachers are just focused on their curriculum.

Myles Finn 5:30

Right. You gotta be really good at math and then figure the rest of it out on the way.

Stefanie Donnelly 5:34

Right. And so disappointing. When you lift up the bottom students, it definitely benefits everybody if you provide their like the structure that they need.

Myles Finn 5:44

Right.

Stefanie Donnelly 5:45

But then also, you know what I really like to think about is, you know, AIC is like shaping future world leaders.

Myles Finn 5:52

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 5:52

And if our world leaders don't know about people who are neurodiverse, then our world might not be prepared for that.

Myles Finn 6:00

Correct.

Stefanie Donnelly 6:01

So I love that there's a commitment to inclusion and that our students who are gonna go out and do amazing things will remember the importance of having equity in the classroom or in the workplace or organization, community.

Myles Finn 6:18

It's so beautiful. And it's so important and and something that I am incredibly I'm I'm incredibly grateful that it is happening at AOC. Because like you said, I don't I don't know that it's necessarily something that's happening at all international schools. No, which is really too bad.

Stefanie Donnelly 6:32

I can tell you, I don't know how many European schools there are, but we are definitely one of the first CISA schools, maybe the only CISA school really that has an official program. Wow. And in Europe in general, we're like well, like on one hand. There's not that many. Yeah. Wow. So it is amazing work and we want more schools to do it.

Myles Finn 6:54

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 6:55

But um I think that there's just like a lot of barriers that make it difficult for schools to launch programs. So I'm really proud of AIC for going for it and doing doing what they need to do to support the people that are here.

Myles Finn 7:10

With whole heart and body.

Stefanie Donnelly 7:11

Yep.

Myles Finn 7:12

That's what we're doing. You had a cool trip recently. Yeah. Speaking of Bridges program and starting bridges programs. Where did you go talk about that? Because I think that is like that's pretty wild how things like this happen. And and I think because we're in an international community, they're always looking for other international communities that have the things that they need.

Stefanie Donnelly 7:30

That's right. We are leaders in the region. And so um, someone heard about our work, heard about the bridges program, and they said, hey, we have a couple students that have pretty intense disabilities and we need help. Can you come and look at what we have so far and give us recommendations? And so I got to do that, which was so fun. So cool. Um, and a good reminder of just like how much work it is, and that like we can't just put people with differences in spaces.

Myles Finn 7:56

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 7:57

They have to have like there has to be intention and supports and structures and making sure the educators know what they're doing.

Myles Finn 8:05

Yeah, exactly. Making sure that not just the educators, but the whole community is like well informed on the best way possible, the best way forward for every student, which is beautiful.

Stefanie Donnelly 8:14

Yeah.

Myles Finn 8:14

That is so cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 8:15

I know. And I really love there's there's a lot of um, there's kind of like a cohort of us around the world that we we try to like get in touch with each other and we try to meet with each other and support each other because otherwise we're really working like in silo, yeah, by ourselves. So um, we're trying to that uh kind of like died with COVID, but we're trying to bring it back. That's cool. So yeah, it's pretty cool.

Myles Finn 8:35

Do you guys like meet up? Or you're just like we meet online.

Stefanie Donnelly 8:37

We meet online. That's great. Yeah, and that's amazing. We like have little meet, yeah, meetings and share outs and that's cool. Yeah.

Myles Finn 8:45

I love that. With like choir directors are kind of the same way.

Stefanie Donnelly 8:47

Yeah.

Myles Finn 8:48

Like you are so your own singleton in in a school. And so I also get that where you like find your people, even if it's like you're going to a conference and you're meeting up with those people, it's still cool to be around the fellow nerds. Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 9:02

And it energizes you and it gives you ideas that you don't that you wouldn't come up with on your own.

Myles Finn 9:07

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 9:08

That are really important.

Myles Finn 9:09

Yeah. Because otherwise, again, you're just in a silo, just talking to yourself. Totally. Yeah. Hoping to figure out what's best for the world. Um have you had a moment recently where you've been like, oh yeah, this is this is why I'm this is why I'm in this profession?

Stefanie Donnelly 9:25

Yeah. Oh man, so many times. But let's think. I mean, my my student who graduated last year. Yeah. So first off, she she was the graduation speaker, which was amazing. And I I I at my other school, I also had a student who is a graduation speaker. And those moments where it's like they are in the spotlight and they are showcasing their abilities, their strengths. Those are the moments that I'm like, this is exactly how like what I'm been le living for.

Myles Finn 9:59

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 9:59

Um, but I'm just really proud of I I have one student this year and I'm just so proud of her. And um we're getting ready for like university and moving out and moving into the dorms and lots of really amazing things. Um, and so I just am grateful for the work that we're doing together. And it's always a reminder about how important it is to keep like students in the center of what the decision making is happening because they're the ones that that this is the most impacted.

Myles Finn 10:35

Their lived experience.

Stefanie Donnelly 10:37

And they those with especially intellectual disability, their lived experience is so different than other people's. And so like keeping that in the center focus of what I'm doing is like always the best reminder of like my work and my planning and um things that I set up for you know to practice. I just feel like um we can't make decisions for people with neurodiversity. And right. That's been like my biggest aha recently is just like remembering who's the center focus.

Myles Finn 11:09

Yeah, for sure. And it kind of helps give you a like a why. It gives you a reason like to to determine like why you're doing what you're doing. And it also like when you're having conversations with you know the powers that be, if it's if it's administration or whatever, like if you have that solid, like, this is why I'm doing this, it's so much easier to not argue points, but it's so much easier to like it's sometimes you do have to. Sometimes you have to like fight the battles of like, hey, we need this, we need to have this conversation. This is why. And if you know that right away, like you can, you can like so easily you're never wrong because you have the because you have the students like best interest in mind. I think you're always you're always right, which is great.

Stefanie Donnelly 11:48

Like that I actually hardly ever consider myself a teacher. I consider myself more like an advocate.

Myles Finn 11:54

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 11:55

Or like um an inclusion empower or something just like something beyond teaching, because it's so much more of like, I see this person, I see all of their strengths, and I want to bring that to to life and help them showcase who they are.

Myles Finn 12:08

That's amazing.

Stefanie Donnelly 12:09

Um, and so when people are like, So what do you do? I'm like, hmm, how do I explain?

Myles Finn 12:14

I'm gonna put it into words for you.

Stefanie Donnelly 12:15

Sort of like education, but something beyond that, maybe.

Myles Finn 12:19

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 12:19

Yeah.

Myles Finn 12:20

I think for the layman, if you just said I'm a special ed teacher, they might think different things about it, you know, especially from the American public system. Like there were some negative connotations, you know? And so I think it is beautiful, like how you are always saying, No, I'm I'm an advocate. I'm a I'm a teacher, also, you know, and you are teaching lots of things on a on a regular basis, too. But you're an advocate first and foremost.

Stefanie Donnelly 12:44

That's right.

Myles Finn 12:45

That's great. What is a typical day like? I'm gonna back up real quick. What does a typical day look like for you?

Stefanie Donnelly 12:54

Starting when?

Myles Finn 12:55

I don't know.

Stefanie Donnelly 12:56

Once I get here?

Myles Finn 12:57

Uh sure.

Stefanie Donnelly 12:59

Okay.

Myles Finn 12:59

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 13:00

Well, I have a unique day.

Myles Finn 13:04

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 13:05

Because my student right now is working on um an internship, a work study program. So we're involved in a lot of different projects. And it kind of depends on the day of like what the project is. But um we try to help students with things that they need. So in the morning, students that are late or get them need to need an extra little hello in the morning can check in with us. That's great. And then uh Do you write the late passes? Well, I guide we we guide towards the late passes.

Myles Finn 13:42

We had so many late passes this morning.

Stefanie Donnelly 13:44

We do check in those who have free periods. And then we we tell the yeah, yeah. And then um, yeah, I mean we we tackle, okay. So in this special education program, we I teach all subjects, including so English, math, science, social studies, Spanish, and French. And I'll tell you, I don't speak Spanish or French that well. But we we it's a study. That's great.

Myles Finn 14:09

That's great.

Stefanie Donnelly 14:10

Um, and then um we have a bunch of different tr tasks to do depending on the project. We're like launching a student store.

Myles Finn 14:18

Cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 14:18

And so there's a bunch of tasks to do with that.

Myles Finn 14:21

Wait, the roaring store. Yeah. Oliver and I just talked about that. Yeah, yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 14:26

So Oliver were yeah, we work with him on that project. And then we um sometimes we go into the community and we we buy things or we we not secret shop, that's not the right thing, but we we're trying to find resources for the student store. So we might look for snacks or drinks or something like that. So um, and sometimes, you know, we go in and do other things in the community as well, which is like one of my favorite days of the week. And then um we also are the sunshine committee. Yes. So that the goal of that is to just like make people feel good, make them happy, give the teachers a little bit extra love.

Myles Finn 15:04

That's great. I think we had the exact same thing at my last, not the exact same thing, but I think it was named the Sunshine Committee.

Stefanie Donnelly 15:09

I mean, I think every school should have a sunshine committee. Right.

Myles Finn 15:12

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 15:13

We it you need it. Yeah. You need people sunshine in your life. Yeah. So um we do some sunshine. We do, oh, like this we this is February. So we're leading Black History Month initiative where we're I was trying to figure out who's writing those. I know.

Myles Finn 15:29

You guys are doing great with those.

Stefanie Donnelly 15:30

We didn't put our names on it to leave it a little like, hmm, where's this information coming from?

Myles Finn 15:35

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 15:36

But we do a lot of research for that.

Myles Finn 15:37

It's great.

Stefanie Donnelly 15:38

And um, and then publish it and then yeah, just like a little bit of everything and all a lot at the yeah, it's it's a lot as well.

Myles Finn 15:48

Every day is different. Every day is different. Do you like that?

Stefanie Donnelly 15:50

I do love that.

Myles Finn 15:52

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 15:52

Yeah. I am like, I guess maybe like a spontaneous person.

Myles Finn 15:58

Sure.

Stefanie Donnelly 15:58

So, like, you know, I wouldn't want to see the questions that you're gonna ask me because that would cause me a lot of stress. I like to be on the go. I like to be really busy. I like to have a thousand tabs open. I like to be having multiple conversations all at the same time. That gives me so much anxiety. Yeah.

Myles Finn 16:15

Yeah. I am, I can also be that person, but I also have to have structure in my life or I'll freak out.

Stefanie Donnelly 16:21

Okay.

Myles Finn 16:22

Lose my mind.

Stefanie Donnelly 16:23

I'm also like a typical extrovert. I get so much energy from talking to people. I love that for you. I'm hardly ever like that for you. Even at the end of the day, I'm like, I'm not extra energetic. I'm not like one of the people who's like, oh, I've I don't know what to do with myself. Like I just am involved in a lot of different things. And so I bring that into the classroom as well. Like there's always just a lot happening. And there's never a dull moment. Like if there's, you know, we finish a lesson early, there's always something that we're picking up and working on. So it's a good pace.

Myles Finn 16:52

I think I'm considered an wait, extroverted introvert. Okay. Which means like I'm good at pretending like I'm really good in front of people. And then like when I have the opportunity to just go and like sit in my room and play video games or read a book, like that's all I'm gonna do. Like I'll clam up.

Stefanie Donnelly 17:09

I get into my room and I'm like, what do I do now?

Myles Finn 17:12

This is boring. Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 17:13

Like, should I clean? Where do I go? What do I do?

Myles Finn 17:16

Let's go see people. I'd want to talk to someone. Yeah, where is everybody?

Stefanie Donnelly 17:19

Where are my friends? I know, I'll call someone. Yeah, exactly. No, it just doesn't stop.

Myles Finn 17:25

That's amazing.

Stefanie Donnelly 17:26

Um, I get bored with myself, I guess. Oh, here's something. I was in a conversation um with another group of educators, and we were talking about this idea like, do you have thoughts that are running through your head all day long? Or is it just like thoughts are coming and going, or is there a dialogue happening in your head?

Myles Finn 17:44

Yeah. What's yours?

Stefanie Donnelly 17:45

I have nothing.

Myles Finn 17:46

Same.

Stefanie Donnelly 17:47

You have nothing.

Myles Finn 17:48

No internal monologue. No. Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 17:50

It's a rare thing, I heard.

Myles Finn 17:51

It is weird. Yeah. I actually just talked to my therapist about this. You did? Yeah, because it's like, I don't even know how to explain. It's hard to explain.

Stefanie Donnelly 18:00

Yes.

Myles Finn 18:00

Yeah. That it's just like there's there should be anything.

Stefanie Donnelly 18:03

Yes. And so I was like, so it's like pretty reactionary.

Myles Finn 18:06

Like, you know, like it it works well sometimes.

Stefanie Donnelly 18:09

I heard it's the most efficient.

Myles Finn 18:11

It feels like it sometimes, but it also feels very what does it feel like? Kind of empty. It feels empty. You know what I mean?

Stefanie Donnelly 18:20

A little.

Myles Finn 18:20

Yeah. Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 18:21

Someone was like, so you have no thoughts. And I was like, well, it's hard to describe it like that.

Myles Finn 18:26

It's not like you're thinking in pictures. No. Like it's kind of like, see that, go get that. You know, like something like that. You know, it's kind of like that. Yeah. It's like very, it's very reactionary. That's funny. We've never talked about this. No. Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 18:41

But everybody else at the table had a different answer. But a lot of them were like, oh yeah. So sometimes I have like the most insane conversation. And then I realized that I didn't have it with the person. I had it with myself. And I was like, what?

Myles Finn 18:53

So I'll I guess a lot I'll have like arguments in my head.

Stefanie Donnelly 18:57

Okay.

Myles Finn 18:58

Yeah. Have you ever done that? Like no. But mine is more like forward thinking, like, what's this person gonna say to me?

Stefanie Donnelly 19:06

Okay.

Myles Finn 19:06

And then that's just like my anxiety bubbling up within me. But that's crazy.

Stefanie Donnelly 19:11

I know. It's fun to think about how brains are so different. I know. And our lived experiences in our own brain is completely different than somebody else. So individualized.

Myles Finn 19:20

Every single person is different. Like even I think about like I love to watch my kids think, my my own children think about things and and just like watch them try to like solve a thing. Because even two years apart, they are so different in the way that they process things. Yeah. It's so crazy.

Stefanie Donnelly 19:38

You know, I love that.

Myles Finn 19:39

And even from when like my son was my daughter's age, like it's it's wild to think about. Yeah. Oh my God, we're weird. It's cool though. Oh no, my iPad's almost dead. Did you see? I'll show you the picture later. There's a cute picture of my daughter on here. Um, what else was I gonna ask you? Oh, this is a good one. And we kind of covered it a little bit, but what's a common misconception that people have about your role?

Stefanie Donnelly 20:03

Oh my goodness.

Myles Finn 20:04

There's a lot, I know.

Stefanie Donnelly 20:05

Yeah.

Myles Finn 20:06

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 20:06

Well, sometimes I'm just still surprised to when people ask me questions that I didn't even know that they thought, you know, like, yeah, everyone, okay. So here's the other thing. Disability around the world is very different.

Myles Finn 20:19

Sure. The way that it's treated and handled.

Stefanie Donnelly 20:21

Yes. From beginning to end. Um so when you're in an international school, there's total definitely different like perceptions about what disability studies or special education might be, right? Because like it depends on where you what you've seen before.

Myles Finn 20:42

Right.

Stefanie Donnelly 20:43

Um so that in the beginning of my career took a lot of getting used to because like in the US, for example, we speak about disability really matter-of-factly. And it's not anything, it's like just a neutral thing. Like everybody is neurodiverse, we all have different brains, but that's not the case in other places. So that's like something that I had to learn.

Myles Finn 21:07

Have you had any like places where you're like, what? How why are you thinking this way?

Stefanie Donnelly 21:12

Yeah, I've I've unintentionally offended a lot of people because I speak about disability as if it's just like acceptable and and normal.

Myles Finn 21:21

Which it is. And people and people are weird about that.

Stefanie Donnelly 21:24

And then people who come from a place where it's not accepted feel really uh upset with me that I would talk about it that way as a lot of people.

Myles Finn 21:32

What do you mean not accepted? Like how do they how do they treat those people?

Stefanie Donnelly 21:36

Well, there's a lot of places in the world where people with disabilities are just kept at home and they're not visible. Um, and they're not included and they're not educated because um and unfortunately there's there's still places in the world where there's a lot of shame around difference.

Myles Finn 21:56

Sure.

Stefanie Donnelly 21:57

Any kind of difference. Right.

Myles Finn 21:58

Right, for sure.

Stefanie Donnelly 21:59

So So um yeah. So that's that's always interesting in in an international arena about like talking about disability. Um but I think that people are surprised when they come to the bridges classroom to see just exactly like what we're doing, because I think there's an assumption that maybe we're like hanging out a lot.

Myles Finn 22:25

Sure. Oh, you have a couch in there.

Stefanie Donnelly 22:28

We do have a couch.

Myles Finn 22:29

You guys are just sleeping all day, taking naps.

Stefanie Donnelly 22:32

But a lot of our work is um yeah, at like a pretty high level. And you know, when they when they hear like, oh yeah, we're studying French and Spanish, I think people are surprised by that. Um so I don't know. I I think I'm always interested to hear what other people's perception of disability is, and then like try to break down the barriers and the misconceptions because there are many. Many and it's yeah, it's never ending. But that's part of building an inclusive school culture as well, because you want to break those down from the very beginning for sure from little kids, seeing kids that are different, and then realizing that that's just like how the world works.

Myles Finn 23:14

And so that then when they become that has to be a hard part about again, about international schools, especially with the fact that the population of students with different abilities are in these schools, are are so small in these schools, that has to be it's a tough um challenge to have to have to tackle.

Stefanie Donnelly 23:32

Right. And you have kids coming in from places where they've never seen anything other than like, you know, a lot of schools um, you know, there's entrance criteria that are quite difficult. And so they've never seen anyone who learns differently at all ever. And then you come to a place where it's very accepted and very inclusive, and that is a different, very different learning and environment, you know. So um there's always work to do because it's the the students are always coming and going.

Myles Finn 24:03

I mean, do you feel like you're do you feel like you're educating at this point, like what I'm hearing for you from you is that it sounds more like you're not just educating one student, you're you're a mentor for one student and you're you you're educating the community, you're educating the people around you. I mean, and I'd be curious how often how often people are asking questions of you and and and curious about what's happening in the program. Is it is it more often than I think? Do you have people in pretty regularly asking you about stuff? Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 24:35

Yeah, very interesting.

Myles Finn 24:36

In a good in a good way?

Stefanie Donnelly 24:37

Even yesterday was it? Yesterday, I had a student in middle schooler ask me, so so what do you teach? And I said, Well, actually everything. And they're like, Surely you can't teach everything. And I said, Well, I do. Like, we have a lot of different subjects that we cover.

Myles Finn 24:56

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 24:56

And um, you know, I'm certified to teach like most subjects.

Myles Finn 25:02

Did you see their mind?

Stefanie Donnelly 25:03

And he was like, I've never heard of this before.

Myles Finn 25:05

Welcome. I was like, that's fine. Welcome to the world. Yeah, that's fine.

Stefanie Donnelly 25:09

Um I'm a teacher. But very interested and very like, I just don't quite understand. Like who and who are you to me, right? Like um, you're an adult in this place, but I've never had a class with this student. Right. Sometimes I go to classrooms with students. Um, and so yeah, just a lot of like mystic, like, so who you know everything? The mystery woman. Not quite everything.

Myles Finn 25:35

Who is this? Yeah, who is this teacher, teacher goddess that's coming into our room that knows all things? So funny.

Stefanie Donnelly 25:43

Oh my god.

Myles Finn 25:44

Um Do you have any big projects that you're working on right now?

Stefanie Donnelly 25:48

Ooh, that's a good question.

Myles Finn 25:49

Besides the Roarin store, which is gonna be cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 25:51

The Roarin store is gonna be really cool.

Myles Finn 25:53

Somebody said crepes? We getting crepes at the Roarin store? That's one of one of my reporters for the newscast was like, yeah, there's gonna be crepes there. I'm like, super fun. That'll be great. We will. Oh crap, our camera's shut off.

Stefanie Donnelly 26:05

Oh Dagnabit. What about me?

Myles Finn 26:08

Both of them did.

Stefanie Donnelly 26:10

Oh. What? So when was that?

Myles Finn 26:12

Audio only podcast, everyone.

Stefanie Donnelly 26:14

At some point, was it ever on?

Myles Finn 26:16

It was. The press record. They must only have like a what we've been going for like a half hour. Yeah. It must only have like a 15-minute time frame. Hey everyone. It's an audio-only podcast. That's too bad. Anyway, sorry. Big projects you're working on.

Stefanie Donnelly 26:32

Um, okay, Roar and Store is gonna be really great. Um, we are launching a school club that's inclusive.

Myles Finn 26:40

Cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 26:41

Called Best Buddies. Yes. There's gonna be a big launch for that coming up.

Myles Finn 26:45

That's amazing. Which is a wait, is Best Buddies a an organization out of Europe?

Stefanie Donnelly 26:50

It is an American organization that has chapters all over around the world. Very cool. And um basically we're gonna start with like a small chapter where there's initiatives that are inclusive happening around the school. We're talking about disability awareness. Um, we'll do events like every month or meetings every month where we're doing the fun things. And it's gonna be really awesome. Very cool. Um and then what else? I feel like there's another thing. Yeah, I don't know. I'm writing a book, but it's not about special education, so that's happening in my world too.

Myles Finn 27:33

It's a high fantasy fiction about a wolf man. What is it? It is I want to know if you're okay talking about it.

Stefanie Donnelly 27:41

No, no, no, I can talk about it, yeah. Um, it's um a family that travels. It's a fiction? It's for it's like middle years fiction. Oh. Yeah. Family that travels, they backpack around Europe. I love this. And it also like has some uh social studies curriculum like embedded so they learn about the places that they're going. Um Have you written before? Never. Oh no. That's so cool. I know it's scary a little bit. For sure. Yeah. But um, so I work on that in my free time. And it's close to publishing. So um dude. Yeah.

Myles Finn 28:20

That is so cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 28:21

I know. And that so that's my book, my first it's a series. So the first book is about the Netherlands, which is where I lived for a really long time. And then hopefully my next book will be about Croatia.

Myles Finn 28:31

Cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 28:32

Um, and then so I learned how to speak Dutch. So there's a lot of Dutch included. And then I need some help with those that speak Croatian. I have some friends that will help me, and then um pretty much can just go from there. Any any well, the idea is like a Europe travel series.

Myles Finn 28:50

Kind of like a two.

Stefanie Donnelly 28:51

And um it's yeah, so it's about this family. It's like very close to our family in terms of what's going on.

Myles Finn 28:56

I was gonna ask if you read it like with your daughters in mind.

Stefanie Donnelly 28:59

Yeah, they've been helping me.

Myles Finn 29:01

I love that.

Stefanie Donnelly 29:02

Um, but yeah, the mot the mom is like a researcher who travels around for her work, and the dad can work remotely, basically, and then the girls get to join if her research is during a school vacation. So on school vacations, they come to Europe and they travel around a country and learn about the country and the language, the culture. The that's so cool. Yeah. So that's been really fun.

Myles Finn 29:24

When did you start writing this?

Stefanie Donnelly 29:25

Um, over the summer, this like idea came to me and it's so you're zooming. I could not let it go. Wow. It was like just like taking up a lot of brain space. And so I thought I better just put it down.

Myles Finn 29:37

Yeah. Yeah. Spill it, spill it out. That's great. Um well, okay. So now I'm intrigued and I'm gonna ask you more questions about this. So did you so how does like your writing process work? Do you sit down and you like take the time to you, you know, like I'm gonna carve out when you have free time, whatever? Yeah. Do you dedicate like it has to be a half hour, it has to be an hour? I have to write a certain amount of words down or something like that, or is it whatever happens, happens, and you just let it go?

Stefanie Donnelly 30:04

I'm a pretty spontaneous person.

Myles Finn 30:06

Yeah, as we've discussed.

Stefanie Donnelly 30:07

So, um, and the the weird thing is I thought that it would have to be more structured than it is, but for some reason I can put it down and pick it up and pretty much just like carry on from where I was. Sure. Um, I can I can the dialogue is like very familiar to me because it's my girls are like this, like basically they're the characters. So I can already, if I hear something that's dial like their dialogue that I'm that I like.

Myles Finn 30:33

It feels like a conversation you've already had.

Stefanie Donnelly 30:35

It yeah, it's like a familiar conversation.

Myles Finn 30:37

That's so beautiful.

Stefanie Donnelly 30:38

Um and then the storyline, I don't know, has just like naturally come out from from travels that we have have had. So like um a flat tire on a on a bicycle, sure. Um like cheese tasting in the Netherlands, seeing tulip fields. Um, it's been fun to like put my friends into it. Sure. Like just it it has naturally developed. And um, Ian, my husband was like, well, don't like make it so obvious, you know. Before he didn't, I've never written before, right? So he was like, I was telling him like I have this idea, and he was like, Well, just you know, don't make it like an obvious storyline.

Myles Finn 31:17

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 31:17

Um, and then he read it and he was like, No, actually, it's it's pretty good.

Myles Finn 31:22

I love that.

Stefanie Donnelly 31:23

Um, so I don't know. I try, I try to like weave in some historical, like um what's the word? Like not fairy tales, but like things that like stories that have been passed down through that culture. Like a folk talk. Like a folk tale. I try to like weave in some of those elements as well.

Myles Finn 31:41

So you have like characters that visit your characters that are related to this folk tale? Yeah, or like don't have to spoil it. No, no, no.

Stefanie Donnelly 31:49

Or like um, like the yeah, like the character, the characters may learn about a folk tale from like okay, so they go to this windmill and the the the well in Dutch they would say the Molinar, the guy who runs the wind the windmill tells the story of basically like the folktale of a windmill. So, or like there's a lot of folktales in the Netherlands as well. I think every culture has them.

Myles Finn 32:16

For sure. I think Europeans more than American culture.

Stefanie Donnelly 32:19

So I weave those in. I don't know. It's just been really fun and um a really great way to like be creative because there's also illustrations that are really fun.

Myles Finn 32:29

Very cool.

Stefanie Donnelly 32:30

Yeah, I don't know. It's a project. That's so fun. So we'll see.

Myles Finn 32:34

How's the editing?

Stefanie Donnelly 32:35

Editing is my scariest part.

Myles Finn 32:37

Sure.

Stefanie Donnelly 32:37

Uh because um I move pretty fast and then I it's hard to catch myself in making mistakes.

Myles Finn 32:43

Go back and like check stuff out.

Stefanie Donnelly 32:44

Yeah, I have like a plan to have some readers, maybe even some students, do some very reading because it's like for a certain age group.

Myles Finn 32:51

Yeah. So that's so fun. Hopefully, what a fun project to be working on too.

Stefanie Donnelly 32:57

Yeah, it's wild. I just never thought I would be interested in writing a book.

Myles Finn 33:01

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 33:01

Either.

Myles Finn 33:02

Do you read a lot?

Stefanie Donnelly 33:04

Yeah, but actually, to be honest, I read more. Um, I'm really more interested in like disability.

Myles Finn 33:12

Sure.

Stefanie Donnelly 33:12

When I read, I want to read about you know, someone's experience with a disability. Sure. Like for for me, that's the most enticing. Um, or someone something about like intellectual process or capacity or something like that. Um, I'm not super into like just fiction or sure.

Myles Finn 33:33

I like I'm deep into a fiction series right now. Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 33:36

I wish that I could be. I'm just really not. Fair. Yeah.

Myles Finn 33:39

Like so I love I watched a bunch of like Game of Thrones when all of Game of Thrones was coming out. Um this the series that I'm reading right now is called Red Rising, and it's got a lot of parallels to Game of Thrones, like a lot of just like upset and turmoil and chaos and um lots of lots of fantasy, which is fun. All right. I want to ask you some just like rapid fire fun questions. Okay. And then we'll wrap this, wrap this bad boy up.

Stefanie Donnelly 34:06

I saw that they were on there. I I did not look at them. You did not look at them because I wanted it to be Okay, rapid fire.

Myles Finn 34:11

Okay, coffee, tea, or something else entirely.

Stefanie Donnelly 34:15

Oh, coffee and tea.

Myles Finn 34:16

Oh, okay.

Stefanie Donnelly 34:17

Yeah.

Myles Finn 34:17

Like tea first. Double fiston?

Stefanie Donnelly 34:19

Tea first and then coffee. At the same time. Yeah. Always tea first, then coffee.

Myles Finn 34:22

What kind of tea?

Stefanie Donnelly 34:23

And then and then end with tea? Uh black tea in the morning.

Myles Finn 34:26

Black tea in the morning.

Stefanie Donnelly 34:27

Coffee, coffee, coffee. Um, mint tea at night.

Myles Finn 34:31

Mint tea.

Stefanie Donnelly 34:32

Yep.

Myles Finn 34:32

Okay. Always good. Um, if your job had a theme song, what would the theme song be?

Stefanie Donnelly 34:38

Oh, oh. Um. Oh my goodness. That is a question. I mean, I love a working that night too. Yeah. Dolly Parton, right? Yeah.

Myles Finn 34:54

I love that.

Stefanie Donnelly 34:55

I like that. Or I'm there's the other soundtrack that's in my head that's not coming out, is um the soundtrack to Laverne and Shirley.

Myles Finn 35:03

Oh my god.

Stefanie Donnelly 35:04

Which I can't only hear it distant in my distance, but it's there. Like a like a like an old old time.

Myles Finn 35:13

There was a um, it makes me think of um the only way I can think about this is there was a news station in Iowa called KCRG, and they would play John's Big Old Fish. Yeah, I know. And the song was Dee Dee Dee Dee Dee Dee Dee, Dee Dee Dee, uh from another one of those beautiful old shows. I can't remember. I love the next one shows. Yeah. Are you currently reading or watching anything fun? We kind of talked about that a little bit.

Stefanie Donnelly 35:41

I'm a big Seinfeld fan.

Myles Finn 35:42

Seinfeld, a classic. Yeah. You can't go wrong with that.

Stefanie Donnelly 35:45

Yeah.

Myles Finn 35:46

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 35:46

Every time I see a Seinfeld, I say I never saw it, but I've seen it so many times. Yeah. So it doesn't make sense.

Myles Finn 35:51

Have you ever watched The Office?

Stefanie Donnelly 35:52

I have watched The Office. I prefer Seinfeld.

Myles Finn 35:55

Fair. Yeah. Fair.

Stefanie Donnelly 35:56

Yeah.

Myles Finn 35:57

Um last one. What's what what is what is something that instantly makes you your school day better?

Stefanie Donnelly 36:05

Oh, friends, teacher friends, especially. Yeah. I love the people that I work with. Yeah. We gotta be able to do it. Yeah, like you a lot. Yes. I like I like people. I like being around happy people that just like I could not get through the day if I didn't have my teacher friends. Yeah. We got for a good community. Such a good community. That is good. Yeah. Okay. So totally. I love seeing you in the morning and being like, Mr. Finn.

Myles Finn 36:34

Greetings.

Stefanie Donnelly 36:34

Good morning. I really last year I didn't stand at the front.

Myles Finn 36:38

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 36:39

That is that is a good way to start the day.

Myles Finn 36:41

Yeah.

Stefanie Donnelly 36:41

I like saying good morning to people. Yeah.

Myles Finn 36:43

And you just get to like help other people start their own.

Stefanie Donnelly 36:45

Yeah, good morning. Yes. And I like, oh I always try to agree. Hey, it's gonna be a great day.

Myles Finn 36:50

Yeah. Give them that little like, yeah. Pep in their step that they need.

Stefanie Donnelly 36:54

And they're looking at me like, oh come on. Oh, please don't. Like, no, you know you want to hear someone be positive when you walk in the door.

Myles Finn 37:01

It makes you feel a lot better.

Stefanie Donnelly 37:02

Yeah.

Myles Finn 37:03

Um, any little tidbits or anecdotes or anything else that you wanted to talk about that we didn't talk about today? Ooh. Anything you want to share with the with the listeners? That's it's too broad of a question, and I'm well aware of that. But I always just want to make sure, like, if we didn't get to anything and you wanted to talk about it.

Stefanie Donnelly 37:22

Right. Well, I think that AISZ has something actually really special happening. Um I love the school the school community. I love the small nature of like the classes and that people know each other well. And I think that the very first thing about high level education is knowing your students well. And I that's something that I really love about this school.

Myles Finn 37:51

Amen.

Stefanie Donnelly 37:51

And I my my kids go here and I love that people know them well as as well as people, you know, they know who they are.

Myles Finn 37:58

You know that they're gonna have a good education. I know that you get to know people.

Stefanie Donnelly 38:01

Yeah.

Myles Finn 38:01

Yeah. And they've got good teachers and good faculty and and staff supporting them, which is awesome.

Stefanie Donnelly 38:07

And Croatia's really cool.

Myles Finn 38:08

Croatia is lucky people. We are very lucky people. We're in a very cool spot.

Stefanie Donnelly 38:12

I practice a lot of gratitude, but it's honestly just because I feel like there's a lot to be grateful for.

Myles Finn 38:17

Fair.

Stefanie Donnelly 38:18

Yeah. There's so much goodness happening.

Myles Finn 38:21

There is. It's a cool spot. Doing a lot of good things too. This was fun.

Stefanie Donnelly 38:26

Thank you for having me. Yeah.

Myles Finn 38:28

Thanks for being on.

Stefanie Donnelly 38:29

On the Bear Cave.

Myles Finn 38:30

The Bear Cave. Yes. That is that is the name of it. We're rocking out. I don't know when the next episode's gonna come out, but it'll come out sometime soon. But thanks for listening, everybody.

Stefanie Donnelly 38:39

Thank you, everybody. Bye. See you.