The Bear Cave Ep. 3 - Katherine McMullen

In Episode 3 of The Bear Cave, host Myles Finn sits down with Dr. Katherine McMullen, AISZ Assistant Principal and incoming Principal. Katherine shares her journey from archaeology to education, with stops in Washington, Singapore, Beirut, and now Zagreb.

Myles and Katherine talk about international teaching, school leadership, social-emotional learning, restorative practices, building relationships with students, and why feeling seen matters so much. They also chat about life in Zagreb, tea, puppies, Law & Order: SVU, and the everyday joy of being around students.

Transcript

Myles Finn 0:21

All right, everybody, we're here with the Bear Cave. I'm here with Dr. McMullen today. Excited to have you on the podcast. You and I got to start here at AISZ together. We did. So we got to go through all the fun stuff together. And you have an awesome relationship with my wife, too. So you guys get to hang out every day.

Katherine McMullen 0:38

Yeah, we get to spend a lot of time together.

Myles Finn 0:40

Every day, which is awesome. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for tougher reasons. But hey, I know that she appreciates you and all the work that you do. So you're pretty awesome.

Katherine McMullen 0:50

Yeah. Thanks. She is too. And so are you.

Myles Finn 0:52

She's pretty fun. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So like I like to ask everybody kind of what the journey to getting here was for you. So you have been teaching internationally for a while.

Katherine McMullen 1:05

Yeah, this is year 12.

Myles Finn 1:07

Amazing.

Katherine McMullen 1:07

Overseas.

Myles Finn 1:08

So where where all has that taken you? Where all did you like where did you start? Um and then what brought you to AISZ? Yeah. I know that's kind of like a big-loaded question, but hey, it's good to talk about.

Katherine McMullen 1:19

Yeah. So I used to swear to my parents that I was never going to go into education. Really? So both of my parents are professors. My sister is a teacher. My sister-in-law is a teacher. My brother-in-law is a teacher.

Myles Finn 1:33

So it's like you're going to be a teacher, deal with it.

Katherine McMullen 1:37

So when I went to university, I was at an archaeology major.

Myles Finn 1:40

Really?

Katherine McMullen 1:41

And so because my parents were professors, like you go to school for your undergrad and you study something that you're interested in. Not necessarily what you're going to do with your life.

Myles Finn 1:52

For sure.

Katherine McMullen 1:54

So when I finished my undergrad, I went and spent some time in Ecuador working at an archaeological site on the coast.

Myles Finn 2:01

Very cool.

Katherine McMullen 2:01

And it was super fun, but also like this is not what I want to do with my life.

Myles Finn 2:06

Sure. Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 2:08

So I came back to the States and told my parents that I wanted to do a fifth-year program to get my teaching certification. And they laughed and they were like, oh, we told you to go.

Myles Finn 2:16

You fell into our trap.

Katherine McMullen 2:19

So I did a program in Washington to get certified. And then I got a teaching job in Washington State. I was there for 15 years.

Myles Finn 2:28

What were you teaching?

Katherine McMullen 2:29

I was a literacy specialist.

Myles Finn 2:30

Oh, cool.

Katherine McMullen 2:31

So I started out in a small town on the border with Canada called Blaine, working with middle school. And I got sick of the commute because it was over an hour in the car each way. Um, James and I moved to a different town in Washington, and I got hired as a third grade teacher. Amazing. Which I almost burst into tears on the first day because they were so little, and everything that I planned for the first day took like a month to get through.

Myles Finn 2:57

Oh, yeah, for sure. Um it's like a completely different, like like teaching different grade levels at all is like it can be a pain, but like going from little little kids when you're used to like maybe working with high schoolers or or up, you know, upper school kids. Yeah, anyway, sorry.

Katherine McMullen 3:12

Yeah, no, no, no. Um, so um I did that for a year, and then they needed a new literacy specialist in the elementary. So I did that K6 for a while, loved it, really enjoyed kindergarten when I only had like two of them. Um but like a classroom scares me.

Myles Finn 3:28

Yeah, parent of a four-year-old. I get that. That's chaos.

Katherine McMullen 3:32

Um and then um I woke up one morning to a text from a friend of mine that I used to teach with in Washington, um, who had moved to Singapore and they were like, Hey, do you want to move to Singapore? And this was um May for the next school year. Wow. And I was like, I was super itchy in my job. I needed something new. I just finished my master's. I was like, sure. So within 48 hours, I had signed a contract.

Myles Finn 3:59

Oh my god.

Katherine McMullen 4:00

Um, because there was kind of like a a principal went missing in the middle of the night. Oh no. And so they moved someone that they'd hired to teach grade six ELA into the city.

Myles Finn 4:09

I'm gonna pause you for just a second, sorry. Grade six ELA, remember where we're at.

Katherine McMullen 4:14

Hello?

Myles Finn 4:18

They maybe wanted to put the chairs away, but uh they can come back later.

Katherine McMullen 4:22

Okay.

Myles Finn 4:22

They'll have time. Okay. Um grade six ELA.

Katherine McMullen 4:26

So the person that they had hired for that also had an admin degree, and so they bumped him into that position and had a last minute sixth grade. Sweet. So they were desperate. Um, and so we moved to Singapore, and it was just gonna be a two-year thing. We were there for eight. Wow. Um, I got my doctorate in educational leadership while I was there. And so when I finished that, um, I needed to move into a different kind of role. I was an instructional coach when I left um Singapore. But uh ended up in Beirut for about a year and a half. That was and you've told me you've told me about this.

Myles Finn 4:57

And it just seems like it was um turbulent. Yes, turbulent is a great for it. Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 5:04

Um it was very turbulent. So um once I was hired here, um, well, so obviously like early on, I was like, hey, I'm not going to be more here for more than two years. So I started, you know, I opened up my search account again.

Myles Finn 5:17

Sure.

Katherine McMullen 5:17

Um and started looking into that and got a couple of offers in China and was like, oh, I don't really want to go to China. Um, and then became a finalist for AISZ and got the job as an assistant principal. So whoop, whoop.

Myles Finn 5:30

That's awesome. And next year you will be The principal. The principal. Which is awesome. I'm so excited about that. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. You're gonna be excited. Yeah, thanks. Um so did you have did you have any like teachers throughout I was it hard having parents as teachers?

Katherine McMullen 5:47

Um yes and no.

Myles Finn 5:49

They were both professors. Professors. Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 5:51

My mom taught at the high school that I went to when my sister was in high school.

Myles Finn 5:55

Okay.

Katherine McMullen 5:56

Um she actually had my mom um as her English teacher, which sounded awful.

Myles Finn 6:01

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 6:01

Um by the time I got there, my mom was a professor. Um, and so all of my teachers knew my parents. They'd all had them like at some point in university.

Myles Finn 6:12

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 6:12

Um, and so it I think there was an advantage to it in that I got away with everything because like I was Ruth and Warren's daughter.

Myles Finn 6:21

Yeah, exactly.

Katherine McMullen 6:22

Um, but that's funny.

Myles Finn 6:24

I like that dynamic is always fascinating to me because my parents, I mean, we're so far removed from education. I mean, like my dad did coaching and things like that, but was never like part of the school system. And so to hear people talk about, like, yeah, I mean, I would go see my mom. Like, I'm thinking of my kids coming through school and like, oh, there's my dad, that drama teacher, you know, like is always wild to me, which is super fun.

Katherine McMullen 6:45

We're always the naughty ones.

Myles Finn 6:46

We're always the naughty ones too. Yeah. Yeah. Rory is definitely gonna be that. I love that child, but he is a chaotic little boy.

Katherine McMullen 6:53

I love it.

Myles Finn 6:54

Um so what is like okay, so I've got a couple of just random questions in here for you. Um, what does an exciting day look like for you?

Katherine McMullen 7:02

Every day is an exciting day.

Myles Finn 7:04

I know, I know about your exciting days uh because you have I see you running around the school a lot. And there are a lot of things that that go on as a as an assistant principal. Um I'm curious how much does that change going from assistant principal to principal?

Katherine McMullen 7:19

Um yeah, that'll be interesting. I mean, I think I get a little bit further removed from students as the principal. How do you feel about that? So I'm working right now really closely with ninth and tenth grade intentionally while I feel like I have the time. Sure. Keep a connection with them. Yep, exactly. And I uh so I'm gonna need to be really intentional with how I do that moving forward because it's super important that kids see me as someone that they can come to.

Myles Finn 7:45

Yeah, for sure.

Katherine McMullen 7:45

Um so that's gonna be a tri uh that'll be a tricky balance, I think. Um, but I don't know that it's gonna change all of that much next year because I don't think that in my time here I've really taken on like the assistant principal role anyway.

Myles Finn 7:58

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 7:59

Um, I mean, we have amazing students, the discipline is very minimal. Um I was breaking up fights all of the time in Beirut.

Myles Finn 8:07

I'm sure.

Katherine McMullen 8:08

So um this in comparison. Um, but um every day is an exciting day. Like I have things on my calendar, and so I sort of know what my schedule is when I walk out the door in the morning, but it's never just that.

Myles Finn 8:22

Yeah. Like I when we were scheduling this, we uh you and I had talked about this just a little bit ago. Like I was like, oh my God, like am I gonna like totally bombard you by trying to schedule you in for this chunk of time for the podcast? And you're like, no, that's pretty light day for me. Yeah. Like, oh my.

Katherine McMullen 8:38

I had like an hour of work time in my office today. Wow.

Myles Finn 8:42

That's never happens. That'd be like a teacher only getting an hour worth of prep. Like they would bang their head against the wall. Yeah. Yeah. That's chaotic. So I mean, like, what what does a typical day day today look like? Is there is there a typical day today at all?

Katherine McMullen 8:56

Um, there's really not a typical day. I mean, I have scheduled meetings. Sure. Um, and I have like the ninth grade SEL block and the tenth grade workshop that are like non-negotiables on my calendar.

Myles Finn 9:06

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 9:07

Um but like every Monday in the afternoon, we've got leadership from one to three. Sure. Um so that like there's the meetings that are scattered throughout, and then there's all the other stuff that comes up.

Myles Finn 9:17

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 9:17

Um, because you know, when a teacher needs something, they come to my office. Um, when kids need something, they come to my office. And so like it's really important to me to be available for people immediately when they need me.

Myles Finn 9:28

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 9:29

Um and then there's the crises that happen. For sure. And then, you know, kids make mistakes. Um, here for the most part, they make pretty minor mistakes and they're super coachable.

Myles Finn 9:39

Yep.

Katherine McMullen 9:40

Um, so and it's all about developing a relationship with those kids anyway, so that we can work together to not make the same mistakes again.

Myles Finn 9:48

Yeah. I I've been thoroughly impressed with your work with SEL specifically and just how that is such a priority for you. And I think what it does is it creates better relationships with you and the kids, and then it also makes them better people, which is, you know, isn't that our goal? Is to just like put good people out into the world. Yeah. Which is beautiful. Do you have um do you have any specific projects SEL-wise that you're working on? Um sorry, SEL for the people that don't know, social emotional learning. Um, my wife being a school counselor, I get to know all about social emotional learning. And I've had fun working on it too, because I'm I'm one of our I'm the grade one of the grade six teachers for the SEL block that we've got. Nice. So what are you what what sort of projects are you working on with it? Um why is it important to you? I mean, I think that that's a good talking point that you can that you can expound upon.

Katherine McMullen 10:34

Yeah, I've got a handful of projects with it right now. Um, but more to the why, like one of our goals is that all students are learning at high levels, something along that line, right?

Myles Finn 10:43

Yeah, yeah.

Katherine McMullen 10:44

Students are not gonna learn at their highest level if they're not social, emotionally well. Right. Um and especially post-pandemic, kids are not okay.

Myles Finn 10:53

Right.

Katherine McMullen 10:53

Um, they have unique challenges that we didn't have, um, and some of the same challenges too. But um, so that's a top priority. Relationships are super important to me too. Like um in my role with teachers, um, but also with students.

Myles Finn 11:09

For sure.

Katherine McMullen 11:10

Um, and so I think that priority comes out of that. I want kids and people, you know, teachers to know that I deeply care about them.

Myles Finn 11:17

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 11:18

Um and I think, you know, it comes from the relationships in the classrooms too that I had. Like I didn't have very many good teachers that I felt connected to growing up, um, especially in elementary school, more so in middle school. Sure. Which is interesting that that's the age that I really gravitated to fascinating. Um and less so again in high school. Sure. So, you know, like the teachers that I I'm actually still in touch with one of my high school teachers.

Myles Finn 11:45

Isn't that funny?

Katherine McMullen 11:46

Um, and regularly communicate with a couple of the middle school teachers. Yeah. Um, so that's why it's important to me. Um, I want kids to feel seen um and to feel like their voices matter. So that's another reason why it's important to me. And then a couple of the projects, like I took on the grade nine SEL with your wife.

Myles Finn 12:05

Yes.

Katherine McMullen 12:05

Um, and today we did the science of gratitude. Um, and they wrote thank you cards after to their teachers. So I there were actually some on your desk that I left for you. Thank you. Um and they were so into it. Like several of them, like they just kept asking for more cards to write more and more of them. Um, and I think they left the room feeling really energized after spending some time thinking about who they're grateful for. Um, and so that was cool. Um, and then I'm working getting ready for next year with um a couple of different organizations to figure out a good platform for gathering student data on their well-being so that we can be very intentional with how they respond. So I'm having meeting.

Myles Finn 12:45

Like it's I mean, now that there are programs in in in like the ones that you're doing, but otherwise it it feels so abstract. Yeah. You're just like, how are you feeling? Like it feels like that's what you're doing, is that you're just asking those questions. But there have been some incredible people that are doing some great work on stuff like this, which is awesome.

Katherine McMullen 13:02

Um so just looking for you know, to replace the curricula curriculum that we currently have um for something that feels more authentic and genuine to the students. Um, I really firmly believe in developing our people and not just adopting programs.

Myles Finn 13:18

Yep.

Katherine McMullen 13:18

Um and so we're taking a step back and you know, making sure that we're really intentional with what we're choosing to do with that SL time.

Myles Finn 13:26

You look at it, you evaluate it, see exactly what's working, what's not working, continue from there, which is great.

Katherine McMullen 13:30

And then meeting with multiple companies. Like we've we've done um a couple of pilots of like surveys for students um to see what what what's gonna fit our needs.

Myles Finn 13:40

Yeah. That's fascinating. Because there are so many programs that are doing I mean, they're all you know, the goal is the goal is always the same, you know, but it's like who who says it best, you know, or who has the the best program that's running for that.

Katherine McMullen 13:53

Yeah, and it's gonna depend on the context, right? Like what works in the US isn't gonna be right an international school in Europe. Um and so how do you be really intentional? Because there's also a lot of garbage out there.

Myles Finn 14:04

Sure. Yeah. That people like, I'm gonna use Chat GPT to create this entire curriculum. I've seen it done. I've seen people do it. It's yeah, it's wild. It it does, I mean, like that is another element. And you were speaking of like the stress of the how the stress is different for us. Um I'm sorry, how the stress is different for our kids than it was for us. Like, I look at the the amount of screen time that students are having, it's just like absolutely insane. Uh, have you read Anxious Generation? I have, yeah. Daily starting to read it right now. Um, and I'm I was like, there are gonna be some things in there that you absolutely love and things that you are gonna be so appalled by. I'm like, yeah, that's that's pretty much how it works. But yeah, I think the the amount of it is so nice. They hate the yonder pouches here. But I tell you, it is like such a night and day difference between having kids like for me, it was like behind a choir folder, sneaking their cell phones so that they could be, you know, like constantly on their phones.

Katherine McMullen 14:59

They're so addicted. Yeah. They love the yonder pouch thing.

Myles Finn 15:02

Yeah, it really is. Like, and they don't even they won't realize how nice it is until they're older. And they'll be like, oh, that was annoying.

Katherine McMullen 15:09

Yeah.

Myles Finn 15:10

But I know why we did it.

Katherine McMullen 15:11

But in focus groups with kids, I've even had them say, like, we like we don't like them, but we know that they're good for us.

Myles Finn 15:18

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Take that, yeah, take that dopamine hit away from them.

Katherine McMullen 15:22

Oh, God. Yeah. Develop some relationships. Talk to humans.

Myles Finn 15:25

Seriously, go go talk to a human, touch grass. Yeah. Yeah. Um how are you liking Zagreb?

Katherine McMullen 15:33

Love it.

Myles Finn 15:34

You've had some cool excursions. Yeah. And you like, you've been telling me about restaurants specifically that you've enjoyed. Have you had a moment where you're like, oh, Zagreb is the place for me.

Katherine McMullen 15:43

Yeah, many. I think every day. Like what I love about Zagreb is that it's safe like Singapore, but it's got some grit and some character. Sure. You know? Um I don't love the graffiti, but I also like it adds some character to it. Yeah, absolutely. Um I loved Beirut. Sure. Um it was a little too spicy for other reasons. But like for it. Yeah. Um so I feel like Zagreb has like the mix of Beirut and Singapore. Sure. So and it's small. And it's located so close to other things.

Myles Finn 16:21

Yeah. So the whole city is so manageable. It's so easy to get around, whether it's public transport or even like taking a taxi from one part of the city to the other, you're there in 20 minutes, which is one of the teachers here um told me that it's sleepy and boring.

Katherine McMullen 16:34

I was like, well, I mean, that's probably my stage in life because I think it's perfect.

Myles Finn 16:38

Sleepy, sleepy, it's nice. It's quiet. Like it's not, it's not too rambunctious. It's not New York City. Like you, you have experience with New York City and know that that's chaotic. Yeah. Um crap, what was I just gonna ask you? He's blanking. I had a good one. I had a good, quick one that I was excited about. Um oh I no, I was just having a conversation with somebody the other day about the brutalism architecture. And that I think when I first moved here, that was something that I don't know if it was just like American propaganda that scared me. Like it was something that I was that like made me anxious, seeing like all these like super tall buildings that were all like these these um apartment complexes that were all the same, and they all have like a lot of stone on the outside and things like that. And I was like, yeah, that right away kind of freaked me out a little bit. Interesting. But then now that I've gotten to see the the teacher, it was Ms. Saza was telling me about this, and and and she said, you just look at the transition between like the Austro Austro-Hungarian Empire all the way down into into the brutalism architecture and how that change happened. And I'm like, that is a fascinating bit of history that that Croatia has. And going through the Yugoslav War and all of that is is really, really fascinating. Yeah. Um yeah.

Katherine McMullen 17:59

The architecture downtown, like I I love where we live. I mean, the it's the Austro Austro-Hungarian era, right? Um and they're just gorgeous buildings.

Myles Finn 18:09

They're so pretty. Yeah, all those, all those, like I love the um the opera house. It's beautiful. And I love getting down like onto the square, all of that is beautiful. But even like venturing out a little bit and seeing the cobblestone and seeing the beautiful red roofs and things like that is is pretty awesome, which is super fun.

Katherine McMullen 18:25

There's a park right by our apartment that we walk the girls in every morning. Um who are the girls, by the way? You should probably talk about them. Violet and Phoebe, my puppies.

Myles Finn 18:34

The puppies, they're so cute.

Katherine McMullen 18:36

They're good girls. Um, and just like the light on the buildings around the square in the morning. Um, it's so beautiful. Um, and seems, I mean, it's just classic European city. Yeah. Like, oh, I get to live here.

Myles Finn 18:50

Yeah, that's so fun. I saw it when we were I think it was just me and Lyra when when I passed you guys in the car the other day.

Katherine McMullen 18:57

Yeah.

Myles Finn 18:57

And I look in the backseat and there's the puppies just sitting there. I'm like, that's so cute. Yeah. They like to look out the window. That's amazing.

Katherine McMullen 19:05

We saw you this morning, too. That was a wet ride. Yeah.

Myles Finn 19:07

Yeah. It was friggin' raining. Yeah. It was nasty. Yeah, it was not fun, but that's right. Um this is always a fun question. Uh what is a misconception that people typically have about your role specifically?

Katherine McMullen 19:20

Aaron Ross Powell That I'm a disciplinarian. Right?

Myles Finn 19:22

Isn't that always like you're the bad guy or you're the bad cop or whatever? Yep.

Katherine McMullen 19:27

Whenever I step into a classroom for a kid, they're like, oh, yeah. Um and I think that I'm starting to break that down. Sure. Um because even when kids are like quote unquote in trouble, like they know that it's going to be supportive.

Myles Finn 19:41

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 19:41

Um so that you know, I'm I'm working really hard on that.

Myles Finn 19:45

That's good. That's huge. Misconception about your role. You're talking about being a disciplinarian is is the common misconception, right? You are not that because you are developing a a relationship with the kids and you're making it so much deeper than you're in trouble. Right. Go to the principal's office.

Katherine McMullen 20:01

Yeah. I I I I believe firmly in restorative practices. For like developmentally, they are going to make mistakes at this age. Yeah. None of our students, and this is everywhere, none of them wake up in the morning with the intention of like, how can I piss off the adult in my life today?

Myles Finn 20:17

Right. Yes.

Katherine McMullen 20:18

Um so we have to meet them where they're at and, you know, coach them into knowing where the boundaries are.

Myles Finn 20:24

Right, exactly. Make it just a little bit, you know, teaching them what is appropriate and ways to get through that when they're maybe struggling a little bit.

Katherine McMullen 20:33

Aaron Ross Powell When I was teaching in Singapore, um, I was teaching sixth grade, and my teaching partner um who joined me the next year had been teaching high school and then moved down to sixth grade, and she would get super frustrated with them because they they're little kids at sixth grade. And her name was Katie also, and I was like, Katie, you've you've got to think of them as puppies. Like they don't mean to pee on the floor, they don't mean to chew the cord, like they're just figuring out like who they are.

Myles Finn 21:01

And I'm sure a sixth grader has done exactly those two things in a classroom before.

Katherine McMullen 21:05

I did have a middle school student intentionally wet his pants when I was teaching in Glendale.

Myles Finn 21:10

No way. Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 21:11

That is as like a defiant thing. Yeah.

Myles Finn 21:13

Wild. Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 21:14

I was like, okay, well, that's more harm for you than it is for me.

Myles Finn 21:18

That's gonna be uncomfortable. Yeah. That is, yeah. I have not heard of that before. Yeah. Wild. Um, is there something specifically that you have loved about your job here? Something that you have had a lot of fun with? I think we've already kind of touched on that a little bit.

Katherine McMullen 21:34

Yeah, I like everything. I don't know. Um I'm just super happy in this role. I really like our kids, I really like our faculty.

Myles Finn 21:42

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 21:42

Um so it's all is good. Yeah. Which is nice. Yeah.

Myles Finn 21:48

It's a good spot. And people are so kind, and the staff is great, and the students are great, and the city is fun.

Katherine McMullen 21:54

Yeah.

Myles Finn 21:54

And the ability to travel all throughout Europe is also super fun, too.

Katherine McMullen 21:58

And I think like especially now. Now that I have kind of intentionally grabbed some times to be with kids, um, I'm I really that makes me super happy.

Myles Finn 22:09

Yeah. That's awesome. All right. Uh we're gonna get into some rapid fire questions because I know you have to get off to a meeting and then we still have the like an hour of school left. Yeah. Um so rapid fire questions first. Um what is this one's kind of fun, I think. What is one unexpected skill that your job has taught you?

Katherine McMullen 22:30

Uh yeah. How to um regulate dysregulated people.

Myles Finn 22:38

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 22:39

Yeah. Because I'm sure that you have people come in that are um that was my biggest learning in Beirut.

Myles Finn 22:47

Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 22:48

Um, because people are very dysregulated. I mean, living in a war zone you're going to. Yeah. Um, and so like learning how to cope with someone who comes in with like steam coming out of their ears and with their pitchfork and like getting them calmed down to talk.

Myles Finn 23:02

Yeah. How do you get somebody that's out of 10 down to a three so that you can have a conversation with them? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Next one. These will be a little quicker, I'm sure. Coffee, tea, or something else entirely.

Katherine McMullen 23:18

Tea.

Myles Finn 23:18

Tea. What kind of tea?

Katherine McMullen 23:20

Uh, right now I'm really into this mango green tea that I get from Arisa.

Myles Finn 23:24

Yeah. Yeah. Love that for you. No true.

Katherine McMullen 23:27

No.

Myles Finn 23:28

No. Haley always has. Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 23:31

I don't like sweets.

Myles Finn 23:32

Really? Yeah.

Katherine McMullen 23:34

That big old candy bowl that's sitting on my desk is not for me.

Myles Finn 23:39

Um I forgot about a theme song, I would have been.

Katherine McMullen 23:42

Yeah, I saw that one. I don't know. I have no idea because I'm not good with songs.

Myles Finn 23:48

Yeah. I'll have to pick up one for it. Something like one of them coming in the next. Anything that you're currently reading or watching.

Katherine McMullen 24:01

Um, I'm really into Law and Order SPU right now. I've always loved that. Um I'm watching some of the newer ones. I'm in like season 22 right now.

Myles Finn 24:11

You really like you're both so sweet with kids.

Katherine McMullen 24:23

What I love about it though, is so it's it's often filmed in my mom's neighborhood. When I see like um and like the dead on it because I'm like, I know what you want to be on SPU.

Myles Finn 24:43

Right.

Katherine McMullen 24:45

Um and then I have some very professional development books that I'm reading. I'm trying to start reading novels, but I just like I always gravitate back.

Myles Finn 24:55

Um my recommendation doesn't matter at all then.

Katherine McMullen 25:02

Yeah, like a fantasy high-fi.

Myles Finn 25:07

I'm one of the type she's like fiction fantasy, which would be like dragons and stuff. She loves dragons and stuff.

Katherine McMullen 25:14

I kind of like a crime. And the lawn order aspect. Yeah. I used when I taught English, like I every YA book I ever had read. Um, I was really good about doing that. But with like adult novels, I haven't been great. Yeah.

Myles Finn 25:34

Um last one is what is something that instantly makes uh the school day better?

Katherine McMullen 25:40

Being with kids. Yeah. When I've had like an interaction or something has happened that just hasn't left a good taste in my mouth, I want to go into a classroom.

Myles Finn 25:49

And just like it. And just like feel that energy that comes from that.

Katherine McMullen 25:53

Yeah. And like remember, like, this is why I'm here.

Myles Finn 25:56

That's great. Any last words or anything else? We haven't talked about that anymore.

Katherine McMullen 26:03

Thanks for pushing me out of my comfort zone.

Myles Finn 26:06

That's so good to do a podcast with cool people specifically. You're awesome.

Katherine McMullen 26:13

You're awesome. Yeah, you do.