The Bear Cave Ep. 4 - Doreen Garrigan

In Episode 4 of The Bear Cave, host Myles Finn sits down with Doreen Garrigan, AISZ Lower School Principal. Doreen shares her 36-year journey in education, from classroom teaching and gifted education to school leadership in Romania, China, Brazil, and now Croatia.

Myles and Doreen talk about building school culture, supporting teachers, staying connected to students, learning from feedback, and what makes the AISZ Lower School community so special. They also chat about Zagreb, dogs, Battle of the Books, Friday community dances, historical fiction, and the joy of being around children.

Transcript

Myles Finn 0:21

All right. We're here. Yes. Are you excited? I am very excited. I'm excited too. This is awesome. I have gotten to know you through starting here at AISZ together. Um we got to start and do it. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Um so I'm here with Doreen Garrigan. Doreen is our lower school principal here at AISZ, doing some amazing work and excited to hear more about your story, about what brought you here. So um would you want to start with just kind of like giving us an introduction on where you've been, what you've done, what has brought you here.

Doreen Garrigan 0:55

It's such an amazing story.

Myles Finn 0:56

Yeah, no, it is though. You've told me some amazing things about what has happened. Thank you. Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 1:01

Um, this is my 36th year in education. Awesome. So I'm at a point in my life where it's not only the school, but it's also the location. It's the relationships that matter so much in where I choose to call home.

Myles Finn 1:17

Right.

Doreen Garrigan 1:17

But I've been very fortunate to live in some amazing places around the world.

Myles Finn 1:22

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 1:23

And um, what brought me to Zagreb was uh an interest to return to Europe. I have a daughter that lives in Scotland. Okay. And so proximity is huge. The proximity was huge.

Myles Finn 1:35

That's great.

Doreen Garrigan 1:35

My other daughter is back in the US, and I have two granddaughters. Oh. So when that happens, your life becomes more about how far is that distance to get to see my grandchildren. Yeah. So that was a huge draw. But I moved here from Rio de Janeiro.

Myles Finn 1:50

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 1:51

And it's really interesting to hear the reaction of Croatians when I say I lived in Rio. And they're like, why are you here? Yeah. Because it's been winter.

Myles Finn 2:00

Oh, for sure.

Doreen Garrigan 2:00

And there were a couple of days I asked myself the same question when I could be at the beach.

Myles Finn 2:05

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 2:06

Uh, but I loved Rio. It was an amazing experience coming out of the pandemic. I went there in 2020. Oh, wow. So it's right in the middle.

Myles Finn 2:14

So you started in August of 2020.

Doreen Garrigan 2:17

I started in August of 2020 in Rio. I was in China in Shanghai when the pandemic broke. Wow. So I have definitely some stories about what that was like to live in China. But Rio was nurturing and healing. There was something therapeutic about going to a country that was so rich in diversity and the music.

Myles Finn 2:39

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 2:39

And the textures of Brazilians and the country. So I really thank Brazil for giving me a sense of peace after the chaos of being in Shanghai.

Myles Finn 2:51

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 2:52

The school was amazing. It was a two-campus 1300 student school. And I brought the PYP, the Primary Years program, which I'd been a part of for 15 years, to the school and working in that capacity to help a school evolve in its pedagogy and its beliefs and values about an international education.

Myles Finn 3:14

That's beautiful.

Doreen Garrigan 3:15

And that experience also led me here, even though we're not a PYP school, there were so many practices grounded in what I believe about how best children learn. So it was a real natural connection for me to make to AISZ. For sure. Knowing that I felt I could have my place here too.

Myles Finn 3:34

Yeah, absolutely. Have have you noticed how different were students that you had in Rio versus students that you have here? Is there much of a difference?

Doreen Garrigan 3:42

It was. It was it it it is different. The school in Rio had a Brazilian population at about 75%. Oh wow. So it was my first international school where the host country nationals were the majority. Wow. So the language of play was Portuguese.

Myles Finn 3:58

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 3:59

Where in my two previous schools in Romania and in China, the language of play was English. Sure. Because we had 55 plus I would not have thought about that. And in addition to the student population, my teachers were about 80% Brazilian.

Myles Finn 4:14

Oh wow.

Doreen Garrigan 4:15

So having the opportunity to get to know the teaching community within a country that had similarities and differences as well. For sure. And working with them on their journey around inquiry and concept-based teaching and learning. That's fine. So again, like it was a massively important experience to have before coming here.

Myles Finn 4:36

So I'd be curious, how how did that affect with 75% of the student base being from the country that you're teaching in? Obviously, like I'm used to that as an American, like the American school system. But like how did that affect? Did did students approach things differently? Were there cultural things that came into the building that you were having to not necessarily deal with, but you had to work through?

Doreen Garrigan 4:58

It's a great question. One of the first things I noticed about Brazilian students was their comfort with adults.

Myles Finn 5:04

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 5:05

There's such a familial culture. Trevor Burrus In a good way. In a really good way. The way the conversations flowed from very young children to upper school age, they're so accustomed to being around large families that they literally just approach school as an extension of family. Sure. Yeah. So kissing on both sides of the cheeks. I did that every day, several times a day with parents, with colleagues. It just became the normal.

Myles Finn 5:36

It's a very like loving culture.

Doreen Garrigan 5:38

It's a very affectionate, warm culture. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Myles Finn 5:41

So do you miss any of that coming here? Because I feel like some of sometimes the Eastern European can maybe be No, I shouldn't say that because I feel like there is a lot of like lovey dovey that is happening in Croatia.

Doreen Garrigan 5:52

Where I found the warmth here in Zagreb was around my dog.

Myles Finn 5:56

Oh, sure. Funny.

Doreen Garrigan 5:58

So my dog Molly, who I adopted in Brazil.

Myles Finn 6:01

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 6:01

She is very Brazilian. I tell everyone who meets her, she's very Brazilian. She doesn't know a stranger.

Myles Finn 6:06

Doesn't want to go outside and be in the snow.

Doreen Garrigan 6:08

Yeah, she was funny. Um, but everyone in the park that I live near Croatian has been so warm and affectionate and immediately strike up conversations and they speak beautiful English, which has been lovely. And also I realize like you're gonna hinder me from learning Croatian. Because in Brazil, I had to learn Portuguese.

Myles Finn 6:28

Yeah, and it's incredibly humbling too how many people know English. It really is. I'm so impressed. I'm the dumb American that only knows English and a little bit of Spanish, but yeah. That's it.

Doreen Garrigan 6:37

But so warm. And and again, that connection around our animals.

Myles Finn 6:42

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 6:42

And the gathering. And in my park, I'll just look out and watch. And there's all these little pockets of of friends and and and even strangers connecting through their dogs. Right. So that's where it's been my connection of warmth here.

Myles Finn 6:57

It's a fun way to bridge the gap, too. Yeah, with a nice little puppy. I think that's fun. Uh why education? What what got you into did you teach first? What what did that journey look like?

Doreen Garrigan 7:08

I spent 20 years as a classroom and gifted ed specialist before I ever stepped into leadership.

Myles Finn 7:15

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 7:15

And I tell colleagues, I was that teacher that I raised my hand at a faculty meeting and go, I'm sorry, could you tell me where this is in the best interest of children? Sure. Like I was that teacher.

Myles Finn 7:27

That's great.

Doreen Garrigan 7:28

And my outspokenness definitely had its fans and definitely had its critics. Sure. As it does, as it does. As a principal, when I had I'm working with a teacher that has really strong points of view, I can recall that feeling of passion and advocacy.

Myles Finn 7:46

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 7:46

So I still think I still view myself as a teacher first.

Myles Finn 7:51

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 7:51

And when I'm having to make leadership decisions, it's it's important to have that lens because I spent 20 years and I loved teaching.

Myles Finn 8:00

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 8:00

And I was good at teaching. And the way in which I had to walk that, you know, journey, stepping into another role. There are times where I would ask teachers, can I just come in and teach with you? Just miss being around the kitchen. I need to get around out of my office. I need to connect with children. And that's still very, very real for me. Sure.

Myles Finn 8:23

So it's just such an energy, especially with lower school, I can imagine. You know, you you just go in and you're getting all the hugs and all the kids are carrying. I mean, Rory right now is carrying around a little triceratops that he was excited about.

Doreen Garrigan 8:36

Yeah, yeah.

Myles Finn 8:38

He's so funny. He loves his dinosaurs. But that energy that comes from the little kids, you know, is I'm sure that that's that can be difficult sometimes. But what is something working with students, I think specifically or I'm I'm sorry, working with teachers specifically at AIC, what has been uh a rewarding part about that? What have you have you done that you've had a lot of fun with working with these people?

Doreen Garrigan 8:58

When I came for my interview, I, you know, when you're going through an interview process, you're looking at schools based on what's on the website. You're talking with individuals through a screen. So it's not until you actually have the opportunity to be in the space to that you actually get any vibe of what's happening.

Myles Finn 9:16

Yeah, for sure.

Doreen Garrigan 9:17

And for my division, what has really stood out is how incredibly competent and cohesive they are. I I've even joked with them at the start of the year, like, like you don't really need me. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? There's they're such a strong group of teachers. They really are. And there's such a confidence that they share together as a unit. So for me, being the new person, it was really taking that step back and just listening and watching and affirming this this is working so well. You're doing it right.

Myles Finn 9:51

How can I help you?

Doreen Garrigan 9:52

And then also trying to find where do where do I fit in as a leader and where we go next. Absolutely. Working with Darren in his first year as director, that's nice as well because I want to support his vision.

Myles Finn 10:03

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 10:04

And then help support my people and all of us walking that walk together. Yeah. So you know that I was away for eight weeks at the start.

Myles Finn 10:13

I'm sure that was hard.

Doreen Garrigan 10:14

It was really hard. Yeah. It was just one of the hardest things to come on board, be so excited, but then know I had to take care of a real serious injury.

Myles Finn 10:24

Right, absolutely. And again, and it's probably more important that you can walk. The walking helps. The walking is important, especially around children.

Doreen Garrigan 10:31

Um but my division just said, we got this.

Myles Finn 10:34

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 10:34

And I I I really truly just that that has been such a blessing for me.

Myles Finn 10:39

It's incredible. And I I I only get to see it as a as a parent through the well, obviously, I get to see it collegially. Clegially. Is that I don't think that's a word. We're gonna pretend that we'll pretend it's a word. Um I get to see it, obviously, seeing the the lower school staff, but then being able to see the pre-K team working with Rory, I'm just like, oh, my heart. Like, I don't want to be anywhere else.

Doreen Garrigan 10:59

You know you're in a good thing. Amazing.

Myles Finn 11:01

And then I look even vertically. I look at the kindergarten team, I look at the first, and there everyone is doing some incredible things, always with the students in mind first. And that is just like so warm and welcoming. And I'm I'm so excited to be able to see more of that as our kids go through the program, which is cool. Yeah. But um curious about do you have any big projects that you're working on right now with the lower school? What do you got?

Doreen Garrigan 11:23

We we I just met with Anna Grubach, our librarian, and we are bringing back Battle of the Books. Ooh. I'm all about that's exciting, you know, age-appropriate competitions for children that have a passion. It comes from my background in gifted education. Yeah. So um And the passion for reading is always good, too.

Myles Finn 11:42

This is it. Always a good thing, too.

Doreen Garrigan 11:44

And and this year we're bringing it back. We have eight teams, and they are so motivated. She's offering an after-school activity. And so working with Anna to bring back that tradition. Yeah. And then also, how do we make sure it just becomes a yearly event again and it nurtures for children and also for those who maybe were a little nervous at first, but then get hooked in by the energy of their classmates and their team members. So we're really excited. We think this is going to be a very successful, fun event in May. Yeah. So that's been something really exciting. Um, and again, I am so privileged to have inherited a strong curriculum and intervention. So a lot of my learning is just really listening to people like Sarah Kirby, the curriculum coordinator, the grade level leads, um, the learning leaders I have just to make sure that we're protecting what works. Uh, so those have been projects that I've just wanted to make sure I'm on board at a speed and a pace that I don't slow everyone else down in learning those structures. Yeah. Uh, but what else have we done? So our community meetings on Friday are great fun. They're so great. This month, um, well, last month we started, and this is something I'm very passionate about is dancing to just release energy, kind of get your mind focused.

Myles Finn 13:07

Because you love Samba. Right?

Doreen Garrigan 13:09

I do Samba's great. Samba's great, but um, I introduced last month the first dance that we did as a community. Okay. And it was the Cha-Cha Slide. Of course it is. So again, the teachers were totally on board. And so we end every Friday community meeting with a dance. So this month it's the Waka Waka.

Myles Finn 13:31

Okay, good.

Doreen Garrigan 13:32

And even Dr. Farney was out here dancing with us.

Myles Finn 13:35

Doing the double Waka Waka. I love it.

Doreen Garrigan 13:37

Just watching the energy of the kids and the teachers. And you know, last month I had some parents visiting and they're like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing I've seen.

Myles Finn 13:45

So great. Those meetings are stupid.

Doreen Garrigan 13:47

That's a bit of my personality of you take a tradition and then you just add a little piece. So each month we'll have a different dance.

Myles Finn 13:54

That's great. Yeah. That's so much fun. So if the today's a Friday. We we like to record these episodes on a Friday, so that's why we get to get to experience a little bit more about the the community meeting. But I'm curious if if it's not a Friday, it can be a Friday too. What does like a an exciting day look for you? Look like for you. And not necessarily exciting in as in that you're running around putting out fires. But that's that's a day I I go home and go, oh yeah, I need to just like take a 12-hour sleep. That's what I want right now. But what does an exciting day look like for you?

Doreen Garrigan 14:27

I think for me, when when I go home and I can answer the question quite easily of were you supportive and available to the people that needed you? Yeah. So, you know, it's two prong. It's it's kids, it's multiple prongs. It's parents, it's the teachers, it's fellow leadership members. Yep. So I think the most impactful days are when I'm accessible and available to support a question, a concern, a celebration. Sure. I love when teachers message going, Hey, we got this great thing going on in the classroom. Do you have five minutes? Yeah. I'm like, I'm I'm there. Absolutely. That is a really exciting day when you can pop in and the kids see you. Right. Hey, Miss Dorian, this is what we're doing. Uh very cool. Dawn Millarvey in grade five is fantastic for that. Yeah. She really wants to make sure the kids see me celebrating with them. Right. So those are really good days when you go home and go, yeah, that was that was a really good day.

Myles Finn 15:24

Yeah. Have you had any of those recently that you're like, this has just been like the best day that I've had in a while.

Doreen Garrigan 15:31

I have been privileged to be in a couple. I was in grade three recently and they were doing something quite simple on the white, on the little whiteboard.

Myles Finn 15:42

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 15:42

But the way in which they were collaborating together.

Myles Finn 15:46

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 15:46

And oftentimes when I'm doing a walkabout, I don't want teachers to stop what they're doing. Yeah. It's it's really truly.

Myles Finn 15:52

You just want to be a fly on the way.

Doreen Garrigan 15:53

I'm actually not there to see them. I'm there to see the kids.

Myles Finn 15:56

Yeah, exactly.

Doreen Garrigan 15:56

Um, so I love when the teachers just keep going.

Myles Finn 15:59

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 15:59

And and I'm able to see the the more natural energy of what's happening.

Myles Finn 16:03

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 16:04

Um, so those those moments are are quite cool to walk out and go, wow, I wish people could see what I see in a day.

Myles Finn 16:12

Right. It's so beautiful.

Doreen Garrigan 16:14

Or like pre-K is any moment in time in pre-K, you're gonna just see so many facets of learning in action. Yeah. And the way in which they're documenting in real time. Yeah, that's a powerhouse experience, too.

Myles Finn 16:29

It's incredible. So yeah. I I wish that I could walk down by their wing when things were happening, but I think if I peeked my head in, then I would get you yell at me. Yeah, exactly. But it, you know, I I do like from what I have been able to see, it's incredible. And I know that that pre-K is not an exception to that. I know that there's a lot of incredible things that are happening. Um how about like a misconception? What would you say is the biggest misconception, maybe for a principal or a lower school principal specifically, one that you would love to debunk?

Doreen Garrigan 17:03

Gosh. A misconception. Gosh, that's a that's a great question because I think for the most part here the proximity to the classrooms is much easier for me to to just take a walk. Yeah. Because I feel more visible here than in my previous school, which was in on a mountainside, 10,000 stairs. So getting to different locations took time and deliberate intention intention. Um but maybe the misconception of what I actually am spending my time on, and and just the amount of things that are happening behind the scenes to ensure that high-quality learning continues.

Myles Finn 17:48

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 17:48

That that those aspects of the role, um, relationships with the board, relationships with parents.

Myles Finn 17:55

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 17:56

Uh it's nice when I can connect with parents outside of a crisis. For sure. Those are really important moments.

Myles Finn 18:03

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Because I think sometimes the misconception could be that you are the authoritarian, that you are the one that has to lay the law down, which in some certain in some senses that does need to happen in some cases, you know. But but knowing that you are here for the kids in every way, shape, or form. And I think that that that is a good that's a good way to approach it. I like that a lot. How about Zagreb specifically? Let's let's dig dig into some questions about that, because there there are some incredible things that I think we can talk about. Have you had a moment recently where you're like, yeah, I'm living in Europe. I'm living in Zagreb now. Like, have you had anything, any meal experiences besides taking your dog to the park? Have you had anything else about that?

Doreen Garrigan 18:44

Oh gosh. I haven't had truly as much opportunity to explore Zagreb because of my surgery and the rehabilitation. So I've had to give myself permission to go slow. Yeah. I think at one point I was a bit frustrated that I wasn't out there, you know, taking the trams everywhere and seeing all the sites. I had been to Zagreb before, 10 years earlier than this. So I had done the whole Croatia experience. Sure, great. So a lot of it is, ah, yes, I've been there as a tourist, I'll return again as a resident.

Myles Finn 19:16

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 19:16

Uh, but I think looking forward, I I want to make more of a concerted effort to get to the old town.

Myles Finn 19:22

Sure. Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 19:23

Um, again, it's the stairs. Yeah, I get really nervous around it. Um but a Zagreb moment when I was traveling around the city with still using a crutch. Every time, every single time I got on the tram, someone gave up their seat. I was I was like, it's okay, it's only one stop. No, no, no, no, sit down. I was blown away by that.

Myles Finn 19:50

Every time.

Doreen Garrigan 19:51

Every single time. Man, woman, old, young, it did not matter. Once they saw me come on there with my crutch, they gave up their seat. I I've never experienced that before.

Myles Finn 20:06

That just like tells the story of the people of South Grip, though. It does, it does feel that way. I think we we we've had a similar experience with like our with a stroller. Anytime that we get on the tram with a stroller, they're like, oh no, let the babies come in here, let the babies come to the spot.

Doreen Garrigan 20:19

Like, I was like, That does not surprise me at all.

Myles Finn 20:21

I know, but it's just so warm, so welcoming.

Doreen Garrigan 20:24

Yeah.

Myles Finn 20:24

Um, I haven't had anybody that was like, like, I'll say, sorry, I I speak English. And every single time somebody is like, okay, how can I help? You know, like, and it's so warm and welcoming. And what I've had some exciting time with teachers specifically in the school saying, it's so cool that you and Haley are going out and exploring the city and are exploring exploring Croatia. Because I think oftentimes people think of Croatia as like or or sometimes I've heard that people are using Croatia as kind of like a stepping stone to the rest of Europe.

Doreen Garrigan 20:58

Yeah. But there's so much beauty.

Myles Finn 21:04

But there's so much beauty here, and there's so many wonderful things to get a chance to go and see, and the people, like we were just saying, like the people are so warm and welcoming that it is so much fun to like get a chance to just explore around where we are, which is which is beautiful.

Doreen Garrigan 21:17

And there's layers to it, so I don't feel like I'm gonna be bored anytime soon.

Myles Finn 21:21

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's wonderful. Um there was something else. Did you have a moment that made you laugh? That made you love or laugh about Zagreb.

Doreen Garrigan 21:33

Well, I had the opportunity to really experience the medical system firsthand. Yeah. And and coming from America, you know, many of our American relatives are like, Why are you having a knee replacement in another country? Yeah. And I said, Well, let me tell you why.

Myles Finn 21:50

Yeah, seriously.

Doreen Garrigan 21:51

Because the state of the care, the quality, the expertise of the surgeons are exactly the same. not better. Yeah. And at a cost that I could honestly afford.

Myles Finn 22:04

Insane. It was.

Doreen Garrigan 22:05

Um, so I smiled a lot when every Croatian nurse came in, and they must have had on my the American or the English speaker. Um, but I had one nurse that did not speak English and she just chatted away with me in Croatian and just like talked with me like I was her longtime friend.

Myles Finn 22:24

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 22:24

And I remember chuckling, going, oh my gosh, that this is one of those moments, right? But then I just thought it's kind of cute that she's like, I'm just going to talk to you like you're someone I know.

Myles Finn 22:36

We're just going to act like we're best friends. Yes. And we're just going to get it.

Doreen Garrigan 22:38

So I had a good chuckle with that. Um and then my physical therapist Marco, at first I really hated him and I was not very nice.

Myles Finn 22:46

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 22:46

And he in his very, you know, uh European, Central European way went, yes, you can hate me, but you need to be here. And now it's a relationship of such trust.

Myles Finn 22:58

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 22:59

That we laugh half my treatments.

Myles Finn 23:02

Good.

Doreen Garrigan 23:03

Like I know about his family. He knows about my daughters, my birthday like it is such an important relationship right now in my life. And we laugh while I'm in pain, stretching my knee and doing all those things.

Myles Finn 23:17

But that's another, you know, one of those people that is just pretty pretty typical of Croatian people. Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 23:22

And he was pretty blunt. He was like girl, you need to work those muscles.

Myles Finn 23:25

Yeah. The bluntness is is fun. And I've even noticed that sometimes with students with Croatian students that sometimes they're a little bit more like, no, just tell me how tell me what I need. Let's talk about let's talk about it. Like let's not feed around the bush. Let's just like get down to it, which is great. Is there anything I we were just having a a conversation today about culture. And I'm curious, what sort of things do you think that you are contributing to the betterment of the culture of AISZ? What are some things that you're using as stepping stones for your teachers or conversation points when maybe you're talking with stakeholders or things like that.

Doreen Garrigan 24:00

Yeah. I think it's important when you're a principal and you are leading culture that you're also open to receiving the culture.

Myles Finn 24:12

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 24:13

Because that can sometimes be the biggest learning moment to understand culture that's already in existence and not succumbing to the pressure to create it in a new, a different way.

Myles Finn 24:26

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 24:26

You know, what drew me to the school was the school culture. So to to feel an integral part of that culture and then also again to find your place.

Myles Finn 24:35

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 24:36

So I think just the degree of proximity being available so that my colleagues see that I am approachable, that they can come to me for celebrations, they can come to me if they need a good cry. I think that helps and hopefully they're leaving their school day going, that was a good day at school because of the relationships, the school culture. Yeah. So I think that that's a big piece that I am conscientiously wanting to ensure and protect about the school culture here. Yeah. Because it's a it's a really positive one. Even when there's discourse.

Myles Finn 25:11

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 25:11

And I and I'm someone that as a leader, I joke with Darren about this, I'm quite comfortable in the gray.

Myles Finn 25:18

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 25:18

As long as the gray is actively being constructed and we're talking through.

Myles Finn 25:24

Right.

Doreen Garrigan 25:25

Stagnation is not my favorite place to be.

Myles Finn 25:27

Horrible.

Doreen Garrigan 25:28

So if there's a moment of storming, right? We're having a moment where we need to clarify, I'm not actually going to walk away from that. Right. I'll probably engage more.

Myles Finn 25:38

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 25:39

And as long as we can move through that storm and and really reflect on to what degree this has helped our school culture. Yep. Because I think sometimes when you have those moments where clarity is needed, it's when the culture is being tested.

Myles Finn 25:53

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 25:53

And so when you get to a fruitful you know conclusion, it should be affirming where the school culture is intact and and we're really leaning on it, but also not taking it for granted.

Myles Finn 26:06

Yeah, for sure.

Doreen Garrigan 26:07

So I think that's where I find myself wanting to be proactive in building and sustaining school culture rather than reactive. I've been in situations, especially post-COVID, where everything felt like it was coming at me.

Myles Finn 26:23

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 26:23

And the impact on school culture was absolutely being felt.

Myles Finn 26:27

Absolutely. And those are really hard situations to kind of come out of and dig out of but I think what you were just talking about earlier about you know keeping the strong relationships with your teachers has helped to make that and with your students has helped make you know continuing to build the culture, continuing to keep the doorway open and making sure that people are comfortable having those tough conversations or or easy conversations even, you know, helps make those things easier. Helps make all of the the things that we can use for construction make that much much more easier. And that's that's one thing that I am thoroughly impressed with the conversations that Darren is having with us about just making sure that like hey this is our operating procedure. This is what we're doing. And if you don't like that, sorry.

Doreen Garrigan 27:08

You know like I think that's exactly when it gets tested you can go, no, this is important to us.

Myles Finn 27:13

Yeah, absolutely. And continuing to just like nope, we're going to put our foot down here. This is going to be how we are I think is great. As the husband of a school counselor, I also see all of the value of those things. You know, like I'm always thinking about you know like how how could I have had that conversation differently in order to be more productive you know for the culture of my classroom because it does start as small as like the the relationships between obviously between student and student, between student teacher, between student and everyone else but it's it's that idea of making sure that everyone is part of the conversation first in order to make it to make it strong, which is great.

Doreen Garrigan 27:47

Yeah. Completely agree.

Myles Finn 27:48

Yeah. Anything that you have had any like difficult situations that you are comfortable talking about with the with in relation to culture?

Doreen Garrigan 28:00

In my previous experiences, I think I've always looked at my time at each school almost like a chapter in a school's history. Yeah, for sure. You know a chapter in its book. And I have had moments where I became more aware that I was part of a school's period or chapter of negativity. Sure. And and that's probably some of the areas that I have to give myself some grace. Yeah. Ask for forgiveness. Yeah. You know, because you're you're in the moment of the hurricane trying to do the best that you can absolutely I think COVID again when I was in China was really challenging to sustain school culture when I had teachers in 23 different countries.

Myles Finn 28:47

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 28:48

And you know students were in different time zones and I was not in China until towards the end. And some of those lessons I learned about how much teachers needed me. I think I second guessed that they were with family. I was with family and that should be okay. And came to learn through some feedback from teachers like, hey, we really needed to see you.

Myles Finn 29:14

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 29:15

Even by video.

Myles Finn 29:16

Right.

Doreen Garrigan 29:17

And actually when one teacher said Doreen your emails are nice but we're not hearing your voice. We're not seeing your face. Yeah. And I was like wow okay. Yeah. So I started doing videos. Right. And that's where, you know, teachers were sharing like just just seeing you. Yeah. You know, even though I'm I'm thousands of miles away. So I think that aspect taught me a lot of the importance that some people place on just the proximity to their school leaders.

Myles Finn 29:47

Yeah, for sure.

Doreen Garrigan 29:48

And that's an area where I felt like if I could do that over again. And then I had teachers who were very critical of the fact that I stayed a month with my two daughters. And that's where I've had to go, hold on, I'm also a mom too.

Myles Finn 30:00

Yeah, exactly.

Doreen Garrigan 30:00

I'm also, you know, my my children were scared.

Myles Finn 30:03

Yes.

Doreen Garrigan 30:03

And I have every right as well.

Myles Finn 30:05

Absolutely. To make those decisions for you for putting your foot down with that too. And having those conversations and being blown with them. But I think like it is so important that you talk about like that that idea of proximity and how beautiful that you were able to learn from that experience. You know, and and God, if I could think back to like my first year teaching and just like watch myself teach for a moment. We all have those moments. You know, we all have those things that we that we get to learn and and be better from, you know, and but it does take the wherewithal of knowing what was wrong and being able to fix that. So how beautiful that you were able to be like, you know, this is something that I want to be better at and this is something that is going to be a priority for me continuing forward.

Doreen Garrigan 30:46

It also takes teachers who are not afraid to give that feedback. Definitely those moments I I've said this before and sometimes I think people don't believe me. I really love to be proven wrong.

Myles Finn 30:58

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 30:59

I do.

Myles Finn 30:59

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 31:00

I I I there was I had an EAL teacher who one time came up and and gave a suggestion on a type of assessment and having other teachers administer it. And at first I was like uh let's not do that now.

Myles Finn 31:14

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 31:14

Probably was dismissive.

Myles Finn 31:16

Sure.

Doreen Garrigan 31:16

She came back 30 minutes later and she goes, Dorino, I I really need you to understand this. And then I paused and I said okay talk me through. And we ended up implementing it. And it was one of the best decisions in terms of increased morale at that time for my Chinese co-teachers and the manner in which we were getting stronger data.

Myles Finn 31:37

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 31:38

So she was right and I was wrong to dismiss her.

Myles Finn 31:41

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 31:42

And so those moments when I learn from a professional educator to say, I need you to listen to me.

Myles Finn 31:50

Yep.

Doreen Garrigan 31:50

I love those moments. And they just make you better and in each school I've shared that story.

Myles Finn 31:54

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 31:55

Like don't be afraid to tell me that I maybe have missed the point or not paid attention. Tell me for sure I will listen.

Myles Finn 32:02

And that's how you get better. That's how everyone gets better. It's just by having those having those tough questions or tough conversations with which I think is important. You ready for rapid fire questions? Totally. It's game time.

Doreen Garrigan 32:14

I've totally been practicing for the I'm super excited for you.

Myles Finn 32:16

Okay. So we'll start with we'll start with the first one. I I sent these to you so that you could Yeah I had a little glance. That's good. That's great. So uh what is the most unexpected skill that your job has taught you?

Doreen Garrigan 32:27

I'm not very good at it but sometimes keeping my mouth shut.

Myles Finn 32:30

Hey that's good. That's awesome.

Doreen Garrigan 32:32

There you go. Everything is fine.

Myles Finn 32:35

That's great.

Doreen Garrigan 32:36

But you know what my age miles sometimes I am who I am. Yeah. And I can be a bit reactive but the skill set of allowing space for other people even though inside you're going, you've got to be kidding me. Yeah. That's a skill set.

Myles Finn 32:51

That's a that's a good one to have too yeah and no poker like keeping the poker face on all the time. I am sometimes horrible at that coffee, tea, or something else entirely.

Doreen Garrigan 33:02

Oh depends on the context. Coffee in the morning tea with my daughters something else on a Friday night. Amen.

Myles Finn 33:12

Amen. That's a good way to be uh if your job had a theme song what would your theme song be?

Doreen Garrigan 33:18

So my first response immediately in my head space was welcome to the jungle of that present.

Myles Finn 33:24

Yeah fair.

Doreen Garrigan 33:25

Absolutely. And then I was like oh gosh you know you're an elementary school principal. That sounds pretty intense. And then I went on chat just for fun.

Myles Finn 33:32

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 33:32

What would be a theme song? And then while I was waiting the second song that came to my mind was Let It Go by Present. Yeah great. Amazing. I used to sing that with my former leadership members in Rio, especially during COVID. Yep. Yeah. Just kind of um and I think those two pretty much are my authentic responses. Yeah.

Myles Finn 33:51

Guns and Roses and Elsa. Perfect. That's great.

Doreen Garrigan 33:54

That pretty much describes my personality.

Myles Finn 33:56

That's amazing. I love that. Uh anything that you're currently reading or watching.

Doreen Garrigan 34:00

Oh gosh. I'm reading uh I read every night.

Myles Finn 34:03

Okay.

Doreen Garrigan 34:04

I read uh for a full hour. I I stop at everything. I don't read educational books. It is all about my enjoyment at the end of the day. Yeah. So I'm reading um Ken Follett's um the Pillars of the Earth series. Uh my daughters are great at recommending books and movies and TV shows. Yeah. Uh so I got into the whole world of the fairies and the dragons because my daughters they're millennials and Gen Z. So after reading all of Sarah J. Moss's books. Love it.

Myles Finn 34:36

Books six and seven are both coming out. Did you see that? I know.

Doreen Garrigan 34:39

Yes. Yes. That'll be like I'll jump back in. Yep. I'm super excited. But uh I love historical fiction.

Myles Finn 34:45

Cool.

Doreen Garrigan 34:46

So that's why I'm reading can fold it right now. However, I recently just bought the second book, the sequel to Quicksilver.

Myles Finn 34:54

Okay.

Doreen Garrigan 34:54

So my eldest daughter Lauren keeps asking me, when are you starting? And I'm like, I'm not starting for a while. But I feel like I don't keep up with my daughters.

Myles Finn 35:02

Is that called Brimstone? Yes Brimstone. Yes I did.

Doreen Garrigan 35:05

I just bought it.

Myles Finn 35:06

It's paperback so Haley loves it. She's she's read both of those.

Doreen Garrigan 35:10

It's such great like genres to get completely lost. In terms of TV, I watch something's always on in the background because I live alone. I need that noise.

Myles Finn 35:20

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 35:21

I'm watching Animal Kingdom on Netflix. Great. I love that. I like a lot of spy crime type movies. Yeah. I I told Darren one time if I wasn't a teacher or a leader, I think I'd want to work for the CIA. I just think intensive, you know, kind of world of politics and intrigue.

Myles Finn 35:44

That's like I asked the same question to uh Dr. McMullen and she said law and order SPU. You know, like so see her watching that. Isn't that so funny? Like you just love the the dark dramas like that. Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 35:57

The other side of me and here's a little secret. I do love Love is Blind.

Myles Finn 36:02

Okay. Fairity TV.

Doreen Garrigan 36:03

Do you think it's fair enough that you get 10 episodes of brainless reality TV just to kind of unwind.

Myles Finn 36:09

Yeah. Our our reality TV that Haley and I love is the Great British Baking Show.

Doreen Garrigan 36:14

Oh my God.

Myles Finn 36:15

Love. We will watch that on repeat. That's like a comfort show for us at home. Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 36:19

Yeah.

Myles Finn 36:20

That's so funny. Yeah. You'll have to ask Haley about the Quicksilver and Quicksilver and Brimstone. And then you'll have to also talk to her about did you read Fourth Wing as well?

Doreen Garrigan 36:28

Yes. Okay. I prefer Fourth Wing.

Myles Finn 36:31

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 36:31

There's a bit of a debate between my daughters and me about fourth wing or quicksilver.

Myles Finn 36:35

Because those are parallels to me. Totally.

Doreen Garrigan 36:37

And I'm a big fourth wing. Maybe because it's in a school setting.

Myles Finn 36:40

Yeah.

Doreen Garrigan 36:40

I don't know.

Myles Finn 36:41

It feels kind of like Harry Potter meets dragons and then it gets much darker than that.

Doreen Garrigan 36:48

I love all of that.

Myles Finn 36:49

That's really, really fun. I love that. And then your last one is what is something that instantly makes a school day better for you?

Doreen Garrigan 36:56

I think access to kids. Amen. That's it. Yeah. If I'm around children, I'm good.

Myles Finn 37:02

It's just like instant joy.

Doreen Garrigan 37:03

It is.

Myles Finn 37:04

I love that. Anything that you any like final tidbits or anything that you want to share with the audience before we say goodbye.

Doreen Garrigan 37:10

Just how grateful I am to be here. I feel like I've landed in a in a really exciting place. And Zagreb, thank you so much to to this city and this beautiful country for welcoming me. I I feel pretty pretty blessed right now.

Myles Finn 37:27

That's awesome. It's a great place to be it is. We love it. Cool. Well thank you so much for being on the Miles was great. We'll have to have another conversation about that sometime soon. Thanks for the