Talk with Toby Ep 5 - Pastor Storm Moore

Pastor Storm Moore from Kelowna's Metro Community joins me for a powerful conversation about loss, grief, homelessness, addiction, outreach, and what faith looks like outside the walls of a church.

This episode is raw, emotional, honest, and deeply human.

If faith, compassion, or finding strength in life’s hardest moments interests you… this conversation is a good one.

🎙️ Talk with Toby — Real Life. Real Faith.
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Transcript

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Hi, it's Toby, and I'm really glad you're here. Today, on Talk with Toby, real life, real faith. Open up the door, and I see this police officer, lady, and I said, My son is dead, isn't he? Today's conversation is emotional. God does not waste pain. I'm talking to Pastor Storm Moore from Metro Community, a church known for walking directly into issues many people avoid: homelessness, addiction, poverty, isolation, and outreach. They help some of the most vulnerable people in Kelowna. This conversation is about compassion, dignity, burnout, faith in action, and what happens when you stop seeing people as problems and start seeing them as human beings. If you've ever had to work to find faith in life's hardest moments, this conversation is for you. Storm, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Yeah, it's a pleasure. You work in the church I am probably the most curious about. Okay. And it's Metro Church. And you are the pastor of community engagement. Yeah. And so this is uh a drop-in space, there's laundry and hygiene programs through all this, wound care, shelter referrals, community spaces, and then Sunday service. Yeah. Let's start with you though. Okay. Where did faith begin for you personally? Yeah. So I would say that as uh a part of our Guyanese um black culture, there is a there's there's a culture of being churched. Where were you born? Guyana South. You were you were born, okay. Yeah, yeah. And so um, you know, so you have this faith journey that's passed down all the way through. Now, and so yeah, so my grandma was I was gonna say your grandma's coming into this story. Of course, you know, so she was the the spiritual giant in the home as far as it being a personal journey for myself or whatnot. The call for ministry and the call for all that came early. But really, as any kid in high school, you're not thinking about full-time ministry. No, you might be thinking sports, you might be thinking whatever, right? And I was a really good athlete, and so um, and uh I loved music, and and so at one point I thought I I want to do music, and then my mom uh and dad both said uh no, that'll be a hobby. And then uh and then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go into sports then. Let me uh right and so uh football. And and I did have an opportunity to go on and play um professional. Um but where did you play? I had an opportunity. I did not Oh you didn't take it. Yeah, I didn't take it. Why didn't you take it? The call for ministry, right? Interesting, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a strong call. Yeah, because that those are the big bright lights calling your name. Yeah, and you chose the other bright light. The other bright lights, yeah, exactly. Um but yeah, I had a um uh uh professor um and he was the you know the dean of the college, and he said, Listen, I believe that God's calling you for full-time ministry now, not when you hang up your cleats. And so where was that? That was in Calgary. Why Kelowna? What brought you here? But one of them you're not gonna be so pleased with as an answer. Uh, you want to start with that or leave it for last? Um, what no, just go now. Okay, good. Because now I'm curious. Now I'll be wondering the whole time. My wife looked at me and said, Every winter you keep getting more and more miserable. Look, that's the thing. I said, You're right. I hate the cold. I hate Calgary, I hate it so much, right? I'm out of here, right? And so I had three options at the time. Okay. Um, New Zealand, Australia, going to Perth as a church there, and then this unsure kind of opportunity in Kelowna, right? The grandmas got together, my mom and Karen's mom, and said, Don't you dare take our babies halfway across the world. It is pretty far. It is far. And so we uh we literally came out here by faith. Karen had um uh uh a three-month kind of coverage she was doing for uh someone on maternity leave at West Yet, right? And then I was in the process in the candidating stage with uh Trinity. Yeah, right, and so it nothing was sure, right? What I was sure about was Karen because I mean she's incredible at anything she puts her hands on. This is your wife, this is my wife, yes, and so I wasn't worried about that, and I said it's just gonna be a matter of months before they ask her to manage and do management at West Yet, which exactly is what happened. So I was more unsure of like what's gonna happen with me per se. Where am I gonna land? Yeah, but I'm like, that's okay. I trust God. And uh, so that's how I got here, 2011. And then you were at Trinity for Umbo, six years. Yeah. At the end of every three years, yeah, I ask myself used to used to ask myself, do I have it in me for another three years here? Uh-uh, okay. I like to write up a whole three-year plan of where would I take the ministry next, of which I've been given the the privilege and responsibility of, right? What you know, and so um, so there's that. And then and then to uh Trinity let me go. Okay, right. Um said I was going in a different direction. Yeah. So you you were just in a different space. I was in a different space. Thank goodness for Karen. So I was gonna be part of a church plant here in Kelowna. In the midst of it, I realized that the type of people that I really want to attract and the type of people that I want to see come to faith are gonna struggle with some of the leadership of the church of which I was gonna be a part of. I got a call that week um from a friend in California that says, Listen, um, you've you've come and visited uh a few times. Our executive pastor really wants to meet with you. Well, I met with the executive pastor and he challenged me on something and he said, You've got to stop doing that three-year thing. He said, Um, that's not fair to you. It's not fair to your wife, it's not fair to your church. And if you were to bow out at three years, you're not growing because you've got three years worth of stuff. You can go into any church, and in three years you can really like turn some things around or whatnot else. It's the next three years and the next three years and the next three years. So you're not learning as much as you you should. And I was like, okay, wow, right? So I get back, uh, my wife has said nothing, and and she's a strong lady, right? And she will tell you exactly what she thinks, but she was saying nothing. She says, Storm, nothing moves my heart more than just the opportunity maybe to move to California and see this church. And she hadn't even been there. And I was like, wow. So there we go. So that's how that happened prior to going there. Um, so in December 2019, on the 23rd, uh, I got a knock on the door from uh police and I was here in Kelowna and opened up the door and I see this police officer lady and I said my son is dead, isn't he? And she says, Let's sit down. And I said, No, my son is dead. And she says, Yeah. So that messes up your world. Right. What was his name and how old was he? Denver. And he was 24. Right. So when I go down to California months later from that, in March, right, uh, I said, listen, uh, put me to work, let's go. I want, you know. And he said, No, we don't want you to do anything for the next 90 days except go to therapy and get to know our people. That's it. That's it. And uh what a gift that was. What a gift that was. Well, I think I I just want to just go into that just a little bit because I think, I mean, if somebody's watching and they have lost a child, there is I would think nothing like that kind of pain. Nothing. So I've had other guests here talk about that situation, and the faith has to come into play there. You uh, if you're being brutally honest, you you you you fight with God, and we've been having this fight over my son for a while. Like, God, I I'm I feel like I'm doing the right things. I feel like I'm given the right amount of tough love and and and soft love and open arms and whatnot. And that's of course was a a friction even in your entire household, right? Because you you got you we have two kids, and and so while you love them the same, you can't necessarily always treat them exactly the same because they're different people. That causes friction. And so, you know, so I'm I'm fighting with God all the time um over this, and then I'm like, okay, I release them to you, uh, bring them back. You know, you and then that happens, right? And so you're angry. I I couldn't even I couldn't even pray. I couldn't sing, I couldn't, and praise God for my care, my Karen, because she became voice at that time, right? It was months before I could pray, truly. But you you did pray again. I did pray again, yeah, and and here's what I learned right away, and even um, it was words that were shared with me at the church that I went to in California that God does not waste pain. He doesn't waste pain. And we run from it, yeah. So now here's the turnaround now to come back to to Kelowna. Okay. So my son was attending Metro. Metro would say they hold the unhoused, vulnerable, not necessarily unhoused, but um vulnerable unhoused being a key component of that at their center. Um Denver was um seasonally on the street. So he would he would come home, he would go, he would come home, he would go. Is that it's the Kelowna thing. I mean, spring, summer, and fall, you can have a ball out there. You don't need, you know, right, you're good. Winter, you know, I've seen the air of my ways. I'm uh I'm a champion, I'm coming home and whatever. Great. Okay, so we did that dance for too many years. And um, anyhow, so so there is that. Then I'm down in California, and uh, and they're like, okay, we're gonna um we want you to oversee all of outreach, right? All of outreach, okay, um, um, as well as a few other things, you know, and so outreach, and here I am now, um, working with these different agencies and organizations that work on skid at Skid Row. And so, I mean, we're running youth ministry stuff there, you gotta do it on a rooftop, you know, uh for safety, or you gotta be at a park with security guards all around and and it just really neat stuff, right? And I'm working with different uh organizations and stuff, right? And doing all that kind of stuff. So finding yourself in that, was that because of your son? Was that because of No? Like you've no, it just you just No, the just the church is just asking me. They they had no idea where my boy attended church or uh any of the like things like that, and so they didn't know. But I'd received already that therapy, and uh so now I'm in this but here's my men's group, my group that I was a part of, just a group of guys, right? Um, that that impromptu came about, right? We didn't, whatever. Four of us, of the seven of us, lost a son. No, yeah, so uh that's the group I'm in, right? Um, and uh, and then uh you see uh, you know, we had a really vibrant counseling ministry at the church, whatnot. But there's times where the counselor, head counselor lady um would say, Storm, I need you to talk with this family. They're just going through some stuff right now, and sure enough, this is what it was, right? God doesn't waste pain. God doesn't waste pain. And so it was incredible, uh, this learning, but then also trying to engage people in ministry and engage people um in the work of what God is doing, but also seeing people come to faith, right? So all of those things I'm doing and part of, right? Then we moved back to Kelowna. And again, not knowing what we're either of us are gonna do. Came back by by faith again. Faith again, but we kept our home here, okay, which was great. And uh so we're back in our home, uh, and then uh we gotta we gotta figure this thing out, and so it was um, you know, so we were looking at different churches and whatnot. Uh, there was one that would have uh would have allowed some of the things that I saw uh in California experienced for us to develop there at this church, which was a multi-ethnic expression as well, too. And so uh, anyways, that aside, uh, one Sunday we said, yeah, sure, let's go check out Metro. So we go, and I'm seeing my friends there from Trinity. I'm seeing people, I'm like, what in the world? I literally saw, and I know this is one of the richest guys in Kelowna, and sitting right beside him clearly was one of the poorest people. Not a rich man. Not a rich man. And I'm like, what is happening here? Right? And so um Joe, pastor, senior pastor there, is like, Storm, I would love to work with you. Come on, you gotta, we have an opening, right? And uh, and what's the opening? Uh, director of operations. That's for work. Yeah, yeah. Oh, thank you. So we're at our friend's house that night, you know, and they said, Storm, what about that job at the church? And I said, No, thank you. And they turned to my wife and they said, Ken, what about you? And she said, sure, I'll look at it. Well, they send over the job description, and over half of the job description was engaging people in the work of the church. And the work of this church the two operations was to be um, how do we uh lift up the most vulnerable people? Right? And I'm just like, this is literally what I did in California for the last five years, right? And so I called Joel and I said, That's mist titled, bro. It that's community engagement. And he's like, Okay, great. What do we do with Karen? First order business, change the title. Change the title. And he said, Well, then what do we do with Karen? And I said, Well, hire us both. All right, and so she'll do that boring stuff that I I don't want to do. Then we sit down. The first thing one of the uh pastors says, Can we have a picture of Denver? Aw. He was a part of this community here, and we have this wall that we just it's a memorial wall, and we don't have a picture of him, like a good picture. And the second thing they said was, Storm, this, and we don't want this to come across wrong in any way, whatever he says, but we um we understand diversity here, socioeconomic diversity, but we really want to fully embrace all diversity. Can you help us to navigate that? What does that look like uh in this space as well, too? Because the people of diversity here in Kelowna are also vulnerable, you know, that don't look um uh well you're talking racial diversity, racial diversity, yeah. And uh and I was like, wow, there it is. There it is, right? Go back years ago at Denver Denver's funeral. Um we had it at Willow Park. I got a call from um Jeff Simla from who at the time may he rest in peace, he passed on as well. But he called and said, Hey, those words and the things that were shared and whatnot at the funeral. Can you come to Metro and have a memorial for Denver there? Because those are the people he knew. And I was like, not a chance in France because these are the people I do not like. Right. And then here you are. Now it's an interesting circle, isn't it? I love that it taught me so much that uh, you know, and then when you see pain and then you see people experiencing it, and you know, God doesn't waste that. And so um they have a redeeming story and uh and they have immense value. And uh man, I just I just want to be a part of it all. Wow, that's amazing. So now let's talk about this church, because this church is, as you've already alluded to, not like the typical uh tidy church that a lot of people are used to. What do you what do you say uh maybe to Christians who are more comfortable talking about being good citizens and helping and and being there for the vulnerable as opposed to the people who actually are. Like what do you what do you say? Where does that fit into Christianity? Outreach, because I mean, I always say if you know if Jesus was here, yeah, he would not be uh uh standing at Prospera Place on a stage giving a speech. He would be probably downtown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. Um, first of all, I mean, I would take pressure off of people and be like, relax. It's okay. Okay. It's okay. It's okay for you to be uncomfortable in some spaces and with it's it's okay, first of all, right? Um and so, and then secondly, just know that the same things that you want, um, relationships, someone to know you deeply, uh, someone to uh um that you know that you matter to, that's the same for everybody, including the folks that you see that are living rough. So there is a way that we've got to kind of get y'all together, right? And just allow you to learn from them because their pain is gonna teach you. Back to the pain. Yeah. Their experience is gonna teach you something. You're gonna end up learning more about the character of God than you would without them. Let's talk about that because there is a lot of frustration right now, yeah, a lot of anger, especially business owners downtown who are victimized by repeated petty theft crime, the rail trail. We've got that whole tent city. We're making national news. Help people understand what you see. There's very different kinds of people who live rough, as you say, different kind of unhoused. When it comes to the drugs, I mean, is that who's showing up at church? Or is it people who like are they coming for the sandwich or are they coming for God? I asked you a lot of questions there, but but basically I w I just want you to help people understand and maybe find some compassion in a time when there's a lot of division and anger and uh people calling on the government to just clean it up. Yeah, move them out. Yeah. Let me go sideways first. Um, the church is is really um unique, uh, for sure. You've mentioned it already. And so there's really four sides of our church. Okay. Okay. There's Metro Hub, and that is a facility that is beautiful. It's uh it's used for you. I've hosted lots of events there. Yeah, whatnot else, right? You know, the big kitchen, the cafe area at the front. And so we wanted that to be used and leveraged by our community. Because that is your church, because that is where we meet for gathering on Sunday. Yeah, right. All the monies that are raised there go towards the work of the ministry that happens at Metro Central, which you mentioned some of those things. There's a cafe side and courtyard and and even a prayer hut over there as well, too, and the feeding and so on and so forth. Okay. On the other uh half on the bottom, there's a hygiene, there's uh there's uh um laundry, there's you know, foot wound care. And then there are services that we partner with um upstairs that uh it's called shelter hub. And the idea there is to help people navigate um you know their next steps of getting out of homelessness or also navigating, you know, just life. Yeah. And so we partner with um different agencies there. And so we're also unique in a sense that. We are very high barrier. We don't allow using around there. I think that's very important to say. Yeah. It's important for the fact that there are other places that um would say, um, government included, no, let this be a safe site. Let's just be a da-da-da. The best kind of safety that we're seeing is to not put anybody at risk and allow people to feel really safe. And I'm talking about the people that are living in the streets, right? And so that they don't feel like, okay, um, this is a place that, oh, okay, here's a dealer, here's a this, here's a whatever. No, no, they can just come, I can put my head down on this table and I know I can fall asleep and I'll be safe. And I'll be okay. Yeah. Right? I won't be propositioned here. I won't be beat up here. I won't, right? Um, and and why all of those things fight to still happen, we are saying, no, no, no, we're gonna try to provide a safe place here. Great. That gets caught by the leadership of our city. They see what's happening and they go, okay, so there's something good happening there in terms of how you've actually raised the bar and people are actually rising to it, right? And so so bit by bit we're making uh changes, right? And then also having the grace to go. I need people to understand, as far as a rehab thing goes, if we're talking about drugs and alcohol, and and alcohol being actually worse than than drugs in terms of getting over, um, it takes about 12 to 13 times on average going to rehab before it sticks. So while you may not see day to day, we get to see month to month changes, right? Year to year changes. And then we get to re-engage those people that have been through it now, but now they get to use their pain to help others. And so you'll see some of the people that we have as serving there at Metro Central have gone through it. Yeah, they're on the other side of it and they're working. When you first meet them, say maybe they don't have a faith. Yeah. What brings them to faith? Yeah. Well, isn't this the the beauty and the grace and the kindness and the mercy of Jesus, right? And that that's what they need to see and experience and feel without judgment and without, you know, uh expectation that I need something from you, I don't need anything from you. Um, and one of the things that we do for people that want to engage and help in the work or whatever is we put them through this course uh called Metro 101. It's just a one-day thing. Yeah. And uh and really what it does, it it helps to deal with stigma. And because really, what a lot of people are seeing are the chronic homeless. There are a whole lot of big there's bigger numbers of people that are unhoused that you don't see. Because they come and they work their way out of it. Is that why? Or no, because they're living they're couch surfing and they're living in cars and they're um going from the right, and so um they're seniors, they're they're yeah, there's right, and so there's all kinds before you see just the the riches, actually, the smaller segment of uh those living really rough, yeah, right? Um, and so the city also is in a tough spot because they're like, okay, we need to help and provide a place that they can they can go to. This is a spot. So we put washrooms there, uh porta potties or whatever. We put some um uh plumbing, some water, some, you know, that kind of thing. There needs to be a place, right? Are you talking about the tent? Like, yes, okay. The tent. Yes, yes. Well, I don't know if that's the word we want for it, but yeah, okay. Yeah, so it is a tent city, yeah. Um, and then that becomes, you know, something that rubs up against people. They're like, no, let's let's hide them. And they were like, well, the more hidden away from, the less we're thinking about these are people. These are people. We've got to help these people, not animals. People. Can we do this better? Absolutely. So when we when we have an individual cause a something, they break in this, that, whatever, and if we know about it, of course, you know, we're gonna we're gonna deal with that. Um, but prior to that, we we also just need um constant conversations with our neighbors of saying, here's what we're doing, by the way. And here's here's our program, here's what's happening, here's what other agencies are also doing right now. So we're working together. The average person who's watching the news every night and another break in, another this, it can feel like nobody's doing anything. It's a catch and release, and they're just they're back out there. And what I want to get at is the humanity, which you are which you are getting there because you've spent time with these people and they have stories. Yeah. And do you see Jesus change their lives? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And so our church is also a place where um we strongly believe that God is not just speaking to those of us who have uh, you know, we're professional, uh, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um God speaks, and when he speaks, his voice is loud enough to be heard by everyone. And so everyone should have a voice. And so um, yeah, yeah, it's it's a little uh a little uncultured sometimes or whatever, you know. Yeah, uh it's a little unscripted or whatever. So when you say, hey, listen, we want to give opportunity, what's God saying, or whatever? You, oh man, you hear some amazing things and you and you get to you get to see where God is moving and happening, right? And so, um, yeah, so there's story after story of people coming to faith, um, and then God just changing their life bit by bit, right? And and they don't have to be um all cleaned up first and then God intervenes. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, that almost that almost makes me cry because it it's true, people think that you have to be you have to clean up to present yourself. Yeah, but really, yeah, God does the cleaning, the true cleaning. Right. Yeah, yeah. However, you do provide the physical part of that. How much do you think like dignity and self-respect and restoring that is part of that faith equation? Yeah. Because we are human after all. We know God loves everybody, but yeah, there is that self-respect kind of thing. I mean, in that that's a journey with people, isn't it? Yeah, it it is a journey. And and so part of a conversation that you'll have with someone is to say, listen, this is not this is not you. Right? This uh addiction, this um uh uh mental illness, um this uh series of bad uh choices, there's what you know that this is this is not you. We see a different you. Let's let's keep talking and so that you can actually start to see how we see you. Right. And uh and that's and that's beautiful. And so is it is there always new people coming, say on Sunday? Do they kind of how do they come in if they've maybe never been to church since kids, you know? Yeah, it's still really friendly. Um we have, of course, I mean, the highest level of security for our kids, right? The doors open at 8:30, service starts at nine, but at 8:30, we've got folks are coming in to get some food and whatnot else, right? But we also have some other uh folks, you know, that like look like you and I also coming um just to sit at tables um with folks, just to just to be there to talk, right? And so it's a fun place. You know, it's yeah, every once in a while you'll get somebody that uh you know is um hung over a little bit and whatnot else. Mind you, I got some other people that that look like you and me that are also hung over. Um I mean, let's not be judging. Yeah, exactly, right? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, well, invite people. What do could and anybody can come? Anybody. What are they gonna get out of it? Well, um, they're gonna get uh they're gonna get a sense of just um the grace and the mercy of God, they're gonna get uh the peace of Jesus, they're gonna get uh a fun community, they're gonna get um great music, they're gonna get fed physically, they're gonna get the word uh spiritually fed. Um, yeah, so they're they're gonna get full, right? And they're gonna be uh the curiosity is gonna raise, right? Of just like, really, how did you actually get it to the place where both people vulnerable and less vulnerable feel safe in the same space? How did you get it to that? By the grace of God, over many years, consistently. This doesn't happen overnight, it's not overnight, and you gotta be patiently consistent. Should should your spirituality and your faith be comfortable, or is it in the uncomfortableness? Yeah, I want you to talk about that because we've talked about pain and that's where growth is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um Bible versa day keeps the devil away. Like, is that enough? I I don't I don't want to um belittle anyone that that uh feels comfortable as well too, um, because I I don't think that's right. I I think just we're all where we're at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Jesus can still work with somebody who is uh comfortable that may say, I I I just see my vertical relationship with Jesus being a uh you know the only thing. A lot of people still say that. But then I go, well, keep investigating Jesus, and then you'll see that he had absolutely up, but definitely out. Right. And uh, and so um if you if the more you fall in love with Jesus, then the more you're gonna come to a place of going, then I want to be like him. And so if I'm gonna be like him, I'm gonna be in places that are gonna stretch me, that are gonna make me uncomfortable. Um, and that those places are not just physical spaces, but also as I engage the word, there are some things in here that I'm gonna look at and go, oh, I've never seen it like that before. I've never considered that when I talk about this, I need to talk about it with that person in mind in the front that's been divorced. That person in mind in the front that doesn't have a bedside table. That person in mind at the front that, you know what, they've got a a um a history of racism. Either they were the racist or or they've been victimized by it as well, too. So I need to look at the scriptures a little bit more realistically because that's literally what Jesus did. And so as I do that, then I then I start to feel this discomfort, but it's good. It's good. You know what happens, right? If you've ever been out to the desert in Palm Springs there, it is hellacious in the in the in the summer, right? And I don't know why anyone, but they have beautiful places there still in the desert called these oasis. Yeah, but the reason why we have the oasis is because it's on a fault line and there's this shaking that happens. There's a shaking, right? And out of that shaking comes, right, the fissure of water that creates it. We need to get shaken up because there's something in us that is so beautiful and good, but it comes by way of shaking, and so that's why it's also important to be uncomfortable because God is up to something good. I love that. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's beautiful when it comes to that discomfort. I mean, a lot of Christians want to be around other people who think exactly like them. So, how comfortable do we need to be with people who maybe don't hold exactly the same values? You've talked about it, different lives, right? And and if people are living rough, maybe they drink too much or they like all these things. Like, can we all be in the same space? Yeah, in that? Of course we can. Of course we can. And I think it's it is so fun. Um, and and it's it's a challenge, yeah. But it's the best way to be. It's the best way to be. Um have those people taught you that? Yes, yes, people in it, yes, yes, yes. And you know, uh in the midst of um the all of the the you know, you got this person, that person, that you vote this way, I vote this way, whatever. We gotta realize, hey, listen, curiosity is a good thing. Yeah, you know, let's let's be curious about each other's lives, right? And uh, and unfortunately, we live in a world right now, just this polarization that's happening, whatnot, uh, it's it's tough, right? And so And it's exhausting and it's draining on your spirit, yeah. And I need to be stretched more in it as well, too. Like I need to pray for those um that um that don't that don't look like me, vote like me, live like me. Pray for them because yeah yeah, and I want to be able to pray better for them because I'm curious about their life, yeah, and not just this, you know, I'll pray for them. Like, no, no, no. Almost like a passive aggressive better than vow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I actually really need to dig in a little bit more to know, okay, so that's why you think that way, right? Scripture talks about in uh 1 Corinthians 13 talking about, you know, as in a mirror when we get to that love passage, right? And you gotta remember that the mirror of those times weren't a mirror like we have now, smooth, polished, whatever. It was wavy and whatnot else, right? And so, as in a mirror, to get a perfect get the right reflection, you had to keep moving. Right? You had to make adjustments. We need to keep making adjustments so that we can clearly see. I am wired to tell people about Jesus all the time. Is there a moment here in Kelowna when you've seen God out there? Not physically, but just seeing God at work. Yeah, every day. Is that that what a great job you have. All the time, exactly. He is like God can't help but be God. He is always up to something good. Always it. Only good, yeah, yeah, right? And so you see it all the time, right? Um, in little ways, big flashy ways sometimes, right? I see it all the time. Yeah. And so to somebody who's listening and feels that tension and maybe feels some anger, what do you want them to see when they see somebody on the street? Yeah, I want them to see that this child of God um is in a rough plot place, um, is not seeing himself the way that God sees him, um, and needs um people to to just help him or her see their worth and their value and uh for them to discover again who they were born and meant to be. That's who you're walking by. That's who you're sometimes not wanting to see, that's who you're angry with. That is a child of God that needs to find her way home again. We can all do more. Yeah. There's two kids in the prodigal son story. The one that stayed home and the one that went out that was a hot mess. Yes, right, and then was celebrated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's move into our living word segment. So when you are um working in it, living in it, or maybe even when you're alone at night just before you go to sleep, I ask my guest to bring a scripture that anchors you and then know that somebody who's supposed to hear it is gonna hear it today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When um um as a kid, I my first award I got at Sunday school class, right, was this wooden plaque that has, and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who've been called according to his purpose. Romans 828. And it is still up on my wall, right? And over the years it's come to mean something differently, right? So here we are now that I am closer to hanging up my professional pastor's hat than I am to starting out. And we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him. I love him, I love him, I love him. Who've been called, there's still this great calling have on my life. Like we all have a general call. You need to um be salt and light, you need to uh go into the world, you know, doing all the things, right? Teaching, baptizing, right? That's a general call. And then there's a specific call, right, that that God has as well to yours right now is this moment. This is your this is your specific call at this time. God is saying, I want you to use your voice, I want you to um to meet with people, I want you to talk, I want you to explore faith. I want them, uh, I want people to listen in. I want them to be challenged. I need you to get uh recharged again, right? I I need you to, this is your specific call and this right. So my specific call is gonna be changing according to his purpose, right? So he is gonna purpose me for something different, and when that comes, I'm looking forward to it, right? And so that's what I think about when I go to bed at night. Yeah, um, God, do you still have me where you want me to be? Am I am I honoring you in a call that you put on my life, both general and specific? What am I missing? What am I missing? Right, or what do I need to dig into more? My ordination charge um was given by a guy named Alan Dunbar, great man of faith um over the years, fantastic guy. And uh I remember uh a couple things happened. He was given this charge to me, and then he said, Storm, you will never be satisfied. You will always go to bed thinking, did I say the right thing? Did I do enough? And that's gonna be hard on you. Are you sure that this is what you want to do? And I remember I remember looking out and seeing my dad. And he's shaking his head up and down to say yes. Who I fought with because he saw the direction of my life was opposite of what he dreamed of for me. He said, way back before I even knew it, because I didn't speak till I was two and a half, and he said to somebody, you don't worry, this boy, he will be a voice for for God. I had no idea that he wanted me to go into ministry. So when I got over the football and when I got over the music and whatever, and I said, Dad, I want to go into full-time ministry, right? And uh I and I'd come from a camp that I'd spent all summer prior to that selling and using, right? And uh just living, living it up. And then I go to this camp and it just changed my life. And I stepped in and I said, I want to go into full-time ministry, and I get home, and my mom and dad are on the deck, and my mom said, No way, it will not happen, not in your life, not in this house, right? Because she was just frustrated that I would pick a profession that would keep me poor when she herself and our family were struggling week to week. And I go down into my room, and uh, you know, I'm down there, and my dad busts in and he said, Come here. And I said, Fine, bring it. And I remember at the time looking into the closet, seeing some bloodstains from our last fight. And I'm like, let's go. And just gently he held me by the face and he said, Listen, for the last five years, I've been going from job to job and I hate my life. He says, But you are love and he kissed me on the forehead and embraced me. And I thought, oh my God, if you can do this, you got me for life. So when that pastor gave the charge and he said, Are you sure? My dad was like, Say yes, boy. So yeah, so I'm very sure I've been called according to his purpose. It's going to have some different things that he's gonna call me to specifically over the years, but I'm ready for it. Yeah. And there it is. You you shared it so beautifully because I should be wrapping this up, but uh you you talk about God use me, how you want to use me. And doesn't it scare you knowing what you've been through? Yeah, I don't I don't know if scares is the thing, um, because at this point in my journey, I'm just like, I trust him, you know, um, and I know that he's gonna keep using other things to kind of shake me up a little bit. But he's saying, I storm, there's still more to spring up in you. There's still more uh life-giving water that you can give um to dry places. It's when I don't want to be shaken up anymore, and when I want safe and when I want comfortable, um that that that's when I'm ineffective for the for kingdom work. Right. I would be ineffective. So no, God, shake me up. You said it so beautifully. It's been such a pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much for coming. Where can people come and meet you and hear you? Let everybody know how to do that. Regularly, of course, you'll find me on Sunday mornings at um at Metro 9 and 11. Um, we have our services. You can find me at Parkinson on uh certain days of the week. Pick a ball. Just pick a ball, exactly. Okay, well, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. It's great to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thanks, Jeff, for uh the intro. Jeff, my man. I know, such a great guy. And thank you for joining me on Talk with Toby Real Life, real faith. Until next time, keep walking in faith, keep trusting God in me every day, and may his peace meet you right where you're at.