Talk with Toby: Real Life. Real Faith.
Talk with Toby is about people; their lives, their stories, and how faith shows up in the middle of it all. Each episode, Toby sits down with real people who have a relationship with Jesus and talks about what that actually looks like in real life; business, finance, relationships, and everything in between. No pressure. No perfect answers. Just honest conversations.
Talk with Toby: Real Life. Real Faith.
Talk with Toby - Kristin Edstrom - Counselling with Christ in the Room
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🎙️ Talk with Toby: Real Life. Real Faith.
In this episode, I sit down with Kristin Edstrom, counsellor, wife, mother, and a woman passionate about helping people find healing through both professional counselling and faith in Christ.
For many people, therapy and faith are viewed as separate conversations. Kristin believes they can work together, helping people navigate life’s challenges with both practical tools and spiritual guidance.
We talk about trauma, anxiety, healing, parenting, relationships, personal growth, overcoming difficult seasons, and how God often works in the middle of our hardest moments.
Whether you’re facing a crisis, working through past wounds, trying to strengthen your relationships, or simply looking to grow in your faith, this conversation offers encouragement, wisdom, and hope.
In this episode, we discuss:
✨ The role faith can play in the counselling process
✨ Healing from trauma and difficult life experiences
✨ Parenting through challenges and uncertainty
✨ Reconnecting with God during difficult seasons
✨ Personal growth, transformation, and emotional health
✨ Why asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness
If you’ve ever wondered what counselling looks like when Christ is part of the conversation, this episode is for you.
🎙️ Talk with Toby — Real Life. Real Faith.
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Hi, it's Toby, and I'm really glad you're here. Most people think of counseling as something you turn to when life falls apart. But what happens when healing becomes about more than coping and starts becoming about transformation? Kristen Edstrom is a counselor, wife, mother, and a woman who believes faith and therapy don't have to exist in separate worlds. We discuss how God meets people in the middle of crisis, why healing is rarely a straight line, and how faith can become an active part of the counseling journey. If you've ever wondered what therapy looks like when Christ is part of the conversation, this episode is for you. Welcome.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thank you for agreeing to do this. Well, thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00I'm so enjoying getting to know people through their faith. And I think that, you know, there's more people with faith out there that need to talk about it a bit. I agree. Yeah. So you are a counselor. Let's just start there. Okay. So what was it about that that attracted you?
SPEAKER_03What was it about counseling that attracted me? I think as a teenager, I had had an eating disorder in high school. And so because of that, I went to a counselor. And the counselor that I went to happened to be a Christian counselor. Just the pieces all lined up. We got a referral from my doctor to a counselor. We did not know she was Christian at the time. And um, she she I really credit her with saving my life. I think my family would as well. And and then finding out that she was also Christian just was such a massive piece of the puzzle. She's still in my life to this day. She's a mentor of mine. She's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. So you grew up here. I grew up here, born and raised in Kelowna. Yeah. And you grew up Christian, obviously. And I grew up in a Christian home. Yep.
SPEAKER_00So when you because there's there's different journeys people take. So have you been a staunch?
SPEAKER_03I would say during my childhood, I grew up in a Christian home. I went to a Christian school. We went to church uh throughout my growing up. I went to a Christian university. I would say my faith really became my own, probably more in my even in my 30s, I would say. I always had an awareness of God, but I think ultimately that awareness um just came more and more into light for me, probably in my as you mature. As I matured, yeah. Sure, exactly.
SPEAKER_00But I think I mean having that foundation.
SPEAKER_03Having that foundation was key.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was a gift, it was a huge gift, yes.
SPEAKER_00And so as you were struggling, I'm assuming, you know, that was kind of the low point, right? Is as you were struggling with an eating disorder. How long did that go on before you knew that you needed help or that your parents were?
SPEAKER_03About a year or so before my parents intervened. And I would say with eating disorders, a lot of times you recover physically, but it's the more the mental piece that takes a long time to recover. Uh that can take, yeah, a really long time to recover and easy to fall back into those patterns too, right? So yeah, it's been a it's been a journey for sure. But how would you say your faith played a role in that?
SPEAKER_00I I think understanding they just say a lot of people, you know, actually like turn to Jesus through the storm. You were already. I was already walking with Jesus.
SPEAKER_03I think recognizing my identity in him was a big component of my faith. And I think recognizing that I think recognizing that he also was going to use this somehow for good in the end. I think it when you're going through something like an eating disorder, it's just hell and you don't wish it on anyone. Coming through the other side of it, you realize that if you make it, it it is something that God could use to help other people who are going through the same thing.
SPEAKER_00I think that's such a big thing that probably a lot of people can relate to. Yeah. You're you're the pain that we I mean typically run from. Yeah. Is actually uh one of my previous guests said something about don't waste pain. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So was faith when it comes to work, was it always part of your approach then?
SPEAKER_03I never advertised myself as a Christian counselor. And I actually just never advertise, also. Um, so it absolutely is faith because I believe that anyone that I see has come to me because God has ordained it and God has had our paths cross. Uh a lot of people I see are Christian, and then there's some people I see that are not Christian. So for some people, it's an important part of them searching out a counselor. They want a Christian counselor. Um, for others, they've they've come to me just through word of mouth and they have no idea that I'm a Christian. If they ask me, of course I'll be honest and tell them. Um, yeah. So it it's it's always a part of my approach because I pray before every client, I pray before every day. Uh, if I don't, that's when sessions go really awry because then I'm relying on my own faith or my own, not my own faith, my own wisdom, which is futile compared with God's, and he's always a part of the conversation.
SPEAKER_00I think that is the biggest lesson because I was gonna say, I've kind of been going through this thing right now where you realize that the minute something doesn't go the way you think it should go, my brain starts trying to like figure it out, right? You're trying to, and and we think that, oh, that's just my strength. I'm just strong, I'm gonna figure this out. But lately it's been on my heart to just relax into it. And there is there is some peace in that. And I know that talking to God daily, that's obviously that's a big thing. But when it comes to counseling and therapy, and when we talk about like self-help, there's kind of a divide in the church, right? I mean, some people are just of the pray more, just pray more, pray, pray, pray. Yeah, and then I guess the more modern version is you know, God gives people gifts to help people and and you should use them all. Obviously, I think I know where you stand on this, but why is why is talking to somebody important and why shouldn't people be afraid to do that?
SPEAKER_03Well, I think there's been a misconception in the church for a long time, and I think we're we're getting to the point where we're saying, just come as you are, right? Like I think that that's more the language now that we use. Whereas I think before you felt you had to be perfect or work through a lot or present yourself well to come to church and talk to God, and that's just not the way that things are at all. He just wants all of our mess, you know, he wants the messiness. Um, I do think God has given us brains to use, and uh, I think he gives us his wisdom, and then we're to walk in that. We're not just to sit and do nothing with the wisdom that he gives us, we're to walk in that and actually make changes that he can be walking beside us, helping us do. We can do all things through him. Um, but I think we really do need his wisdom to be able to understand how he created us and what he wants to do with our lives.
SPEAKER_00Do you see people right now? Like when people come to you, are they like I just think of like rowing against the current. Like a lot of people are just like as I said, trying to control everything and and just power through it. So, how do you how do you deal with that with your with your clients or or with yourself? What whichever you prefer to talk about for people that are just trying to power through life, yeah. You know, maybe without bringing in the Holy Spirit, you know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, kind of stop. And I always feel like counseling, I use a lot of metaphors in counseling. I always feel like counseling, people bring me their box of puzzle pieces. Right. And for some people, they are starting with pieces in their puzzle box that don't even belong to them that have come from other relationships or maybe family. So, first of all, we gotta wean out the pieces that don't even belong to them. And then some people maybe have the edge piece done and they're wondering, you know, what to do next. Um and I think that that's that's God's wisdom in in how to help someone, like how to help someone focus on what part of the puzzle to do next. Not doing it for them, but just uh gently suggesting maybe we should turn this piece over, maybe we should work on just putting all the purple pieces together, you know, just a really gentle approach to um coming down from hustling so hard and trying to force things into being, just to sort of step back as you do with a puzzle and just allow yourself time to figure out what God's up to in your life and what's going on in your life versus trying to force things into place.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that makes that makes total sense. I love your I love your puzzle analogy.
SPEAKER_03I got a lot of analogies.
SPEAKER_00Like you're like Jesus.
SPEAKER_03No, I am always talking about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do like I do appreciate that about how we always talked in parables. It makes it very relatable, doesn't it? And I also appreciate that Jesus never ran anywhere. I always think about that. Jesus just walked, Jesus had the most important mission on the earth, and he walked everywhere. He never ran.
SPEAKER_00And they say God is in that gentleness, right?
SPEAKER_03When you're hurrying and anxious and yeah, yeah, he didn't run, he wasn't in a hurry. He had all the time in the world. He went off, prayed alone.
SPEAKER_00Well, you have a very calm walking energy about us. You do. It's it's a nice, it's a nice energy. When people come in to talk to you, does faith always come up? Do you always bring it up or do you leave it at the door? Um and I don't mean that in a flippant way. Because there's people who say you need to be very careful about anybody who comes in your proximity, especially intimate things like your mind. Yeah, and and to just to know where they come from.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I guess from my perspective, I think God has created every single human being on the planet, right? He he knows how intimately how we work. And I think if I go in as a counselor with that knowledge of knowing that God knows best versus I know best. And I think that's I think that's the difference between someone who relies on God as a counselor and someone who would go to a secular counselor. Um, is I am I am wanting God's wisdom to help this person figure out how to put the puzzle pieces together versus here, let me take that puzzle and I'll figure it out for you and tell you how I think it should go together.
SPEAKER_00I mean, say what I think I hear you saying is that God, you're using God for your own wisdom. You're not necessarily putting it on someone else, you're using it to help someone else. Yeah. That's right. Some people who watch this are of um that old school mind where if if you pray harder, you can you can get through anything. You don't need you don't need therapy. So what do you say to the just pray harder people?
SPEAKER_03Well, I think you can pray harder, but then I also wonder if you're just leaving room for God to speak or if you're just praying harder, praying harder, right? Yeah, and I think when you allow room for God to speak, he reveals to you kind of what the next steps are and what you should be doing and how you should be approaching a situation that maybe you hadn't thought of in that way before.
SPEAKER_00If that makes sense, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Do you think that uh like do a lot of people come in because there's a lot of people in the self-help realm? And do people come in with that mentality mostly that I can fix myself?
SPEAKER_03No, I think people are coming to counseling because they they maybe want to hear the opinion of someone else. Uh, I think they've probably gone to people that maybe in their family, and family always has skin in the game, right? Like family is gonna have an opinion of of how your life should be or what they think. Um, so I think they come to a counselor probably to bounce some ideas off and to and to look for a little bit of guidance, right? It is an opportunity to just sort of put everything on the table and say, How do you kind of see this? What needs to go, what needs to stay? It's just a it's a it's I guess counseling is really a chance for reflection, right? And I think in the pray harder mentality, I think what God wants us to do is just stop and just stop listen. Listen, like just listen to him. What is he up to? What does he say? You know, if we really believe that he invented us and he created us, um, it's I always think of it like trying to put an IKEA chair together without an instruction manual. Like you're not gonna end up with a chair, right? And if you go back to the person that created our instruction manual and just follow like step by step what he's asking us to do, what he wants us to do with our lives, you're gonna end up with something beautiful at the end, probably a lot more beautiful than an IKEA chair. Probably, probably.
SPEAKER_00And and it's very simple, actually, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03And it's really simple. I think we make things a lot more complicated than they need to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What are people struggling with right now? What is what are you seeing?
SPEAKER_03I think people struggle with distraction and comparison. I think those are the two biggest pieces that I see people struggle with, and then that leads to other things, right? Um, it can lead to anxiety, it can lead to depression. But I do think that we're an incredibly distracted world. Incredibly distracted world. I mean, I oftentimes say to my family, I want to throw my phone in the lake a lot of times.
SPEAKER_00Um it is, it's it it can be too much. Yeah, it can be too much.
SPEAKER_03Yet it's like I have my hand, I have an ache at the end of the day from carrying that thing around. Yeah, yeah. I know, I know it's crazy. I mean, we need it, we need it, we need technology, that's how we live in the world. Um, but we're also just so it's it's min it's about minimizing the distractions. And I really think about keeping your blinders on. That's what I always think. I think we we're distracted. And uh, there's a really great quote by Bob Goff, and he said, the devil doesn't have to destroy you, he just has to distract you. And I think that that's really true. You know, I think I sit down to do my devotions and I actually have to cover up my phone with my blanket so that you know I I can't see my phone. I have all my notifications turned off, drives my husband crazy, can't get a hold of me. But um You just have to use it, you know. I just have to I have to minimize all the distractions that are around me because I can be thinking about God and then you get a ding on your phone, and all of a sudden you're thinking about 50 other other things.
SPEAKER_00Or I like for me in the morning, because one of the things I do is the Bible app, right? That daily but you you open your phone, the first thing I hit my email. Then I it's a very you have to be very yeah rigid with yourself to just stay focused. Focused. Yeah. And so so you think that leads to this anxiousness. And anxiety is probably a word that's overused, it's probably like an actual diagnosis that most of us probably don't have, but we have anxious moments.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I I actually think anxiety, anxiety and anger are actually on a continuum, emotional continuum. And I actually think that if both of those things are balanced, kind of like a teeter-totter, if anxiety and anger are actually balanced, because there are things that we should get angry about. Um, and not explosive anger, but you know, kind of be like, yeah, that really does grate me or frustrate me. It's when we take a stand for things. And then I think that there are good things to be anxious about as well. If we're being chased by a bear, probably a good thing to be anxious about and start running.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh it's when it's when anger and anxiety are out of balance which can create a problem.
SPEAKER_00So, do you have any little like just while we're right here right now, any little tip for somebody who's kind of living in that anxiety? Anxiety, like the hamster wheel of it, right? Anger, anxiety.
SPEAKER_03You know, what what is a little tip? I think a big thing to minimize anxiety would be to dec decrease distractions as much as possible. Um, just put those blinders on for social media, for screen time on your phone.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so say it like in a way that somebody could like, because we say like turn off your phone, but maybe it's turn off your phone for 45 minutes or put it away, or like is that a good exactly put it away.
SPEAKER_03I mean, we have kids who have to plug in their technology at the night. And that was my my new, I don't make a lot of New Year's resolutions. Um, a lot of times I think they're more destined to fail than anything. But my one this year was my phone was always my alarm clock. So to get my phone out of my room this year by you know a reasonable time at night and just have it in the back hallway plugged in. Just something practical like that, like just starting small. Um I'm I'm not on any social media apps. If I ever go on something that's Facebook, which is uh kind of yes, you are really not out there so much. I'm really, I'm really not, which is always interesting because I feel that's again, um, being a counselor, having my own practice, I don't advertise. And so I really do rely on God to just make those connections for me. And sometimes I feel like maybe I should go on social media, but for me, it is actually even more detrimental to open myself up to that, just for myself personally.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, so that is good to know. And there's probably somebody listening who is probably on social media and probably shouldn't be. Does it affect does the algorithm and all of that stuff? Because I know people who um, you know, attempt to make their living and if the algorithm changes or there's not enough engagement, yeah, they spiral. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_03You start basing yourself on numbers.
SPEAKER_00So, what is that doing collectively to our like spiritual identity as a world? In your opinion.
SPEAKER_03I think it's making us really competitive with each other versus uh being in the peace that God has made us each individual parts of one body. And uh, and I I do think social media can be used for good too. I think it's for every individual, it's gonna be learning how to make sure that that balance of good versus not so great, uh, the balance of good is always the thing that's that's winning, right? So it could it could even be setting time limits, I know, for your children, because you have how old are your daughters? We have a 12-year-old daughter and a 15-year-old daughter.
SPEAKER_00Um, right in it.
SPEAKER_03Right in it, yeah, which is fantastic. I had my 15-year-old daughter and I both read um The Anxious Generation before she got on in any type of social media, and even with that, then there's just boundaries and time limits on how much time she can spend on social media. And it's good. I think boundaries in parenting are a great thing. I think boundaries in our own personal lives are great things as well, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think people would be interested as as your profession and as a mother to preteen and now a teenage daughter. So what is you boundaries discussion about it? Like, I mean, I just think like when we were kids, I know we didn't have that. We were so lucky.
SPEAKER_03I know, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know our phones are attached with the cord to the kitchen, right? Yeah, yeah, it's it is tricky. I my hats go off to parents who are out there right now just trying their best, right? It's it is really hard. And I do think, again, that's when we're on our knees, just praying for God's wisdom. I pray for God's wisdom every single day in parenting. If there's one thing that I desire more than anything in the world, it is God's wisdom in how I live my life, how I parent, how I am in a relationship, how I am in my marriage. Um, I just think it's the number one goal is just getting his wisdom. My wisdom is futile. I always think of Nox, I hike Knox Mountain a lot. Yes. Just like Jenny. Um, and uh I always think, you know, my perspective and lookout on life might be at the the peak of Knox. Um my kids might be at that first lookout, but God is just this eagle in the sky that has just seen way above and beyond anything that I could ever see and has the ultimate outlook. So why wouldn't I always ask for that wisdom when he can just see so much more than I ever could?
SPEAKER_00As a parent, I mean, obviously you you pray for you pray for your children, you pray for your own wisdom, but ultimately we're sending them out on their own journey. Yeah, exactly. And probably modeling is better than talking, right?
SPEAKER_03I think so. I think so. I think how I live my life is really important for what I'm modeling for my kids. And um yeah, I'm c I'm constant, I'm just constantly constantly looking, I'm constantly aware. I get that there's times that we just have our head down and we're on our phones, and sometimes we just need that break. I totally understand that. Um, but I think for myself, comparison just happens so easily. You know, I'm having a great day and I look at my phone for five minutes. And if I see something that's totally out of my control, all of a sudden I'm comparing myself with a mom in Tennessee who seems to be crushing it, you know? And all of a sudden the good day that I was having is just out the window, and now I'm in despair.
SPEAKER_00Yes. The nice thing is, I'll tell you, there is a bit of a movement where those moms are now showing the real show, the real mud room, and it's beautiful. Okay, but here's my mud room before I clean it up. So I think that is, I think that relatableness is is good. Yeah. What then? Now we're talking about the things you don't do. What do you do daily besides pray? Yeah, that you think keeps you, you know, on a good I like this parenting vein that we're in because I think a lot of people are are stuck in that right now. Like they might haul their kids to church or not. Yep. But what are the things that you do daily, weekly, just to stay uh spiritually healthy? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03This is for me personally. I think there are a lot of people that aren't morning people. I am, I've always been a morning person, so I do get to have my alarm set for 5 03 every morning. A lot of times I wake it, which I thought was early until I just heard that you woke up at 3 30 in the morning. So um I got I got some work to do on that, but I wake up at 5 03. You don't have to. It is a nice time. Day, I always feel my feel my kids need me less at 6 a.m. than they do at 6 p.m. at night at this stage. Uh, but I'll get up, I'll have my coffee, I'll do my wordle. I'll I'll I text uh I have my best friend who lives in London, England. So we text five things that we're grateful for every day back and forth, which is awesome. I always feel like those things are gifts from God. So just really so. Every day, every day we've been doing it for years. It's awesome. Five things that you're grateful for. Yeah, and they're just they're just small, they're tiny. There could be coffee. It's a lot of times coffee. Yeah, it's great. Uh, you know, it could be just getting running water from the tap, it could be um, yeah, roof over our heads. It's there's there's just there's so much to be grateful for. So I do that, and then I usually either read my book, I counsel uh a little bit, a very small amount. I counsel at Freedom's Door. And I know the guys at Freedom's Door every day read uh Proverbs. Okay. So just depending on what day of the month it is, that's the Proverbs they'll read. And so sometimes I'll do that. I love that. I love the wisdom in Proverbs. Um what it is. Tell me specifically what it is about Proverbs. I think it's just the it's the wisdom that applied when the Bible was written that still applies today. Um, there's just so much goodness in every single chapter in Proverbs. There's just something to be gleaned out of every single chapter. It's very grounding. Uh, and I it's I always will tell parents, you know, they never give you a manual when you leave the hospital of how to raise your kids. But I actually I do think we're given a manual, and I think it's the Bible. That's our manual for living. And I there's just so much rich wisdom in those pages. Right. Yep.
SPEAKER_00And I get I get excited about that. I'm into I'm into Romans. I'm kind of a I kind of dart around, but I'm trying to read a psalm every morning. Yeah. Just to just at the end of everything. Yeah. You you spoke in a message that you gave about getting to know God personally. How important is that, say, in a for a person's spiritual health versus just doing the verse a day, yeah, church on Sunday.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think getting to know God personally is like us sitting down and having this conversation versus me saying, I know Toby because I know Jenny and Jenny's told me about Toby. Um, when you sit down face to face with a person, you just get to know them that much more intimately, that much better. Uh, you hear what they're all about. And it's what I'll experience getting to know God is maybe different than my husband is going to experience getting to know God. Uh, same God, but just the way that He's individually wired us to interact with Him is different. And what and then you're also talking to the actual CEO of your life versus you know talking to the secretary of the CEO to get to know the CEO. You're just making that there's there's just there's a removal of all middle people, and you're just actually talking with your creator. That's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_00I love that. It is awesome.
SPEAKER_03So little touch points through the day can just kind of help. Little touch points throughout the day can help. I would say having a good crew of people who are gonna point you in the direction of Jesus always is super important. I have an unbelievable group of really good girlfriends will text um back and forth throughout the day, just voice text back and forth. It's probably my favorite way of communicating. Um, but just always knowing that people are gonna be pointing you back to God, people are gonna be with you in the struggle. And then I also think having mentors, having mentors who, for me, are usually women who are a little bit ahead in the journey as well of life. And uh, and again, can just be even that much higher up on the mountain and give me their wisdom and their perspective.
SPEAKER_00These are all such good things. I feel like we could dive into each one of these. No, I agree. Because friends in faith, this seems to come up every time. Friends in faith, there's just something different, even if you don't have all the years that you might have with somebody you grew up with. When you have a friend in faith, yes, yeah, it's different, it's different, it's different.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it is for sure. Where they'll point them to you is different than where someone who does not know God will point you to.
SPEAKER_00Well, and we know the power of prayer, yeah. And so having people who can pray for you.
SPEAKER_03Yes, totally. I just texted a mentor of mine this week and just asked her about getting together, and she just said, She just said, I just finished praying for you. You know, and it's that oh, when you know that you have people praying for you that you're not doing this on your own, is um what a gift. What a huge gift. Yeah, and people want to do that. People want to do that. We want to do that for each other, right? As Christians.
SPEAKER_00That is the thing when you're sitting at church, and there's usually an opportunity to go up and pray with someone. And uh in one of the churches that I attend, I I sit in the balcony and watch, and I'm always amazed by the people who go up and do it and the the obvious sincerity of like hands on the person praying tears a lot of the time. It is it's a beautiful thing to witness as well because I think you get something from that.
SPEAKER_03Totally, and how it connects people, right? I mean, there's the guys at Freedom's Door and me may do may not have a lot in common, but it's just like this when you have the same father, it's this unbelievable connection that you feel with each other, right? Despite what your struggle is, the circumstances you're going through, you you find a way of connecting because of God.
SPEAKER_00And when it comes to serve, because we know service is is part of it. So Freedom Store, just tell us a little bit about that and and how that came to be.
SPEAKER_03Oh man, my mom has been a part of both Freedom Store and Now Canada for as long as I can remember. She's always she's always had a heart of service. Her um, her life's mission is to give her time, talent, and resources. That's beautiful. Help for their God's kingdom. There's a role model. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I mean, we could do a whole podcast on just my mom. It'd be amazing. Um, so I've always known about Freedom's Door. And then a mentor of mine was talking with a director and was mentioning that the director said they could use a few more counselors there. And so I don't have a I don't have a ton of time in my life to stay dogged and work kids, and that takes the priority right now. Um, but I've always been drawn to working in uh the field of addiction, and particularly actually with guys. My practicum was at Crossroads when it existed in Kelowna, which is a drug and alcohol um rehabilitation center for both men and women, but I did a lot of my work actually in with the men. And um just going back to that anger, anxiety continuum, you've what we would find is that a lot of the guys would come in displaying the one emotion of anger. Yeah. And then you would be in a group setting and you would just realize the power of helping them uncover their sadness, their anxiety, their fears, uh, the tears that they couldn't get out when they were kids because they had to not be a mama's boy, they weren't allowed to cry. Um and I think it's just that power draws me to working with that demographic of people. They're just really raw and honest and real. And um I think Freedom's door having a faith-based component to it, which I really do not know how you get over addiction without God. I really, I really don't because it is so powerful. I can know that from my own experience with an eating disorder as well. Um but God can do great things in helping overcome addiction.
SPEAKER_00And I think you're an excellent example of somebody who because you've been in a situation where you had to overcome something. And so there is your beautiful gift in that in helping someone else, and for and for somebody else, it it could be a completely, completely different thing. I always like to think because this is a passion project for me, yeah, and I've talked and interviewed people my whole life, so I just kind of it just kind of came together, not really a plan. In fact, my husband said, you know, you have a job and you have a business. Could you just like focus on that? And I said, I can. Yeah. And then I always joke, all of a sudden these microphones appeared and these lights appeared. And then I've said, Well, I'll just do a couple of interviews a month. And but it's just I know names keep coming to me and beautiful stories. So, how do you not share those?
SPEAKER_03I know, and God just makes room, right? Like he just makes room when you don't think there's room, he makes a way and uh makes it come together.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love it. Okay, so you are dealing, um not dealing with, but you have you have clients in your practice. Yep, you're helping at Freedom's door. What if somebody's listening and they've never forayed into counseling or therapy? And so they're a bit scared.
SPEAKER_03They're missing out now. It's great. It's so good. I mean, when you can just have someone that you can talk to that is just going to listen without judgment, it what an absolute gift that is to a human being. I always the clients will ask me, you know, how does this work? How many times should I come? I actually think that everyone should have a counselor just like everyone has a dentist. Uh, because whether we realize that we need to go in for that teeth cleaning every six months or not, it's always really good to go in there. And usually they find something when they poke around, you know. And if you don't take off some layers. Yes. If you don't, then you got a lot more work to do maybe years down the road, right? And I mean, I have some older clients who are coming with stuff that they haven't dealt with for decades, decades and decades, right? And they just they just haven't known how to do it. And um, it's it's scary work. I think what people keeps people a lot from coming in is it is it's work and it's really hard work to do, actually. I will oftentimes say to clients when they leave, like, don't be surprised if you're absolutely just exhausted and need to go home and feel like you need to take a nap, right? It's it is really hard work to delve into some stuff that you thought, no, I've dealt with that, it's done, it's finished. Uh, to go back and to revisit some old wounds, it's it is hard stuff to do. And oftentimes it takes more than one session to do.
SPEAKER_00When you talk about healing, because I know, you know, in I keep saying the self-help realm, I hate to give things labels, but what I'm talking about is when you uh try to go that route, and our friend, mutual friend Jenny, I think she said it best. It was like, oh, I'm gonna get healed. And then it just seems like the scab keeps getting ripped off. But when does like the the healing start? So that's where you've alluded to the God part comes in. So what does it really look like?
SPEAKER_03Healing, healing from yeah, and having God be like safe in part of that. That's where the safety is, right? I think we can do, and again, to use another analogy, um, I think a lot of stuff in our lives gets covered up with band-aids that really needed further surgery, and uh probably because of that, because we didn't do surgery at the time, and whether it was because we didn't have the resources, we didn't know where to turn to, um, maybe there was a lot of shame around getting help uh from family or environment. Um, a lot of times wounds really fester, right, and become worse than they actually need to be, because we just put a band-aid on it and think it's gonna be fine. But then when you remove that band-aid and, you know, treat it with something that you heard it worked for someone else, um, but it just keeps on coming back and back and back. I think a lot of times what God wants to do is just be with us and go uncover, take the bandage off and go down to where the wound initially happened and let him show us how to heal that and let him show us that he's been there all along. He was there when the injury happened. He's gonna be there in the healing process, and there's so much love. There's so much love. I think people are, I know I can speak for myself, was really reluctant to even reveal certain parts of my own life, um, even in front of God, which is so silly because God just He knows anyway, knows everything. Um, but I think there was always a reluctance, like, no, no, I won't, I won't touch, there's all other parts of my life that I can, but I won't look at that one part. It's too dark. It's something I just felt I would go with to the grave. Um but when you do that, when you sit with God and just allow him to I always thought of it like going down into a deep dark room in my grandma's basement that no one ever wanted to go to because it was too scary. But when you do that with God and you allow the door to be open and just realize that he's lit up a place in your life that you didn't think could ever possibly be full of light, and he's been there all along in the room that you thought was dark is just actually so flooded with light, and he actually wants to use that space in your life to be a light for others and to help others. It's pretty, pretty remarkable.
SPEAKER_00I love that, I love that, and and to go back to what you just said in that is you tried to heal yourself with something that worked for someone else. That's the beauty of God, is that he's one God, but he doesn't heal everyone in the same way.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Yeah, he doesn't heal everyone in the same way, and sometimes he may not have a foot thing that um has been there for a good solid 10 years, and would I ever like it to be gone? But it's not, and it's actually opened up different areas in my life that I feel are all God directed and just you know, it wasn't what I wanted, but it's was God's plan for my life.
SPEAKER_00And okay, so say that because somebody might say, Well, why would God be letting this happen? Why yeah, something's why did my son fall and break his arm? What was the purpose in that? Yeah, but you know, so what aren't you doing because of your foot? Or what are you doing because of your food? Yeah, what am I doing because of my foot?
SPEAKER_03So I started swimming 10 years ago, and now I've been in the same club for 10 years, and it's led to some really great friendships and relationships, and allowed me to invite people to church and um to some of these retreats that I host and just share with God uh or share with people about God that may not otherwise have crossed my path.
SPEAKER_00You talk about how God sees things and how we try to make sense of it. So whether you're healing from a physical injury, you're healing from trauma, yeah. It's more about trust, or it should be more about the trust.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's trusting to do the work, but yeah, yeah, it's trusting that he sees way beyond. And it could be even be that in this lifetime we don't see what God was up to, right? But it could be that we're setting something up for future generations. I mean, I can't wait to get to heaven in some ways, and I just feel like it's gonna be one of like one of those you know, like CSI where you get all those pieces of string that like go together. I feel like that's what God's gonna do. It's like this led to this, led to this, led to this. He's always he's always working, he's always up to something.
SPEAKER_00Does God come into your therapy room? Like, where have you seen? Have you is there a moment where you've seen it?
SPEAKER_03Well, there's many moments that I think I see it. I think just allowing space for God to work. Um, I'm always aware that God is present. I'm always aware that if I'm just meeting with another person, there is God is always in the room. There's always three of us in the room together. Yeah. Um I think once you see people's sort of the light bulb starting to go off in people's heads about maybe they hadn't thought of something that way before. And it I always think of like a ball of yarn just kind of being untangled, right? It's just it's maybe that softening, and I think that's God's perspective of just giving us a new way of thinking about something and giving us more understanding and more grace for others, more grace for ourselves, too. Like I always say to clients, like when they tell me their stories, I just think, well, no wonder, no one, like you know, guys at Freedom Store or clients that I see in my office, just how could it have been any other way? You were trying your best with the coping skills that you were given or not given. And so, no wonder that your life ended up this way. It doesn't have to be that way forever, and there can be a lot of healing. There can be a lot of different things that you do going forward, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00I always try to think of that when somebody is maybe not acting in the way I think that they should act, right? It's like they are doing the best. Yeah. Usually, usually in hindsight. Yeah. But they're doing their best with what they have.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think a lot of times people are scared to take a look back at the past because they love and appreciate a lot of times they love and appreciate their parents, sometimes not so much. Um, but you know, they don't want to they want to put the blame on other generations. However, I think when you do look back, you realize that our parents, our grandparents, our great-grandparents were just doing the best with what they what the tools that they had, the very limited tools, especially when it comes to mental health that they had. I think of, you know, my great-grandparents were probably just trying to keep kids alive and right and and keep the farm going or whatever it was, right? Like it was a it was a life. Yeah, totally. And which allows us to give grace to them. And I mean, I think that the horrors that they saw in in their generations, um, you know, I think it caused a lot of trauma that they didn't know how to deal with. And so then that's passed on to the next generation to next generation to next generation. There's a there's a bit in a movie that I cannot find anywhere on any platform, but I believe it's it's called Vice. And um it's about Dick Cheney, which I don't have no idea why I would have watched this movie. However, in one part, um, it shows Dick Cheney just about to have a heart attack, and it's teacup on top of teacup on top of teacup on top of teacup stacked, and then eventually they just tumble over. And I think that's a lot of times what happens with generational trauma. It's just like it's teacup on top of teacup on top of teacup, and then we have this generation now who just has so much trauma that was never worked through before, who's dealing with all the trauma from generations past, right? And it's it's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot for it's a lot for kids nowadays.
SPEAKER_00Well, because they probably they don't they don't know that they don't know that they're carrying all of this. Yeah, yeah. So back to what do you say to someone who would be scared to step into a therapy room, whether it's because of beliefs they hold or just the fear, the shame. Yeah, talk about shame. You have some good points on that. I know Brene Brown comes up. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think uh, well, I think okay, so Brene Brown, Brene Brown says that shame is universal. Everyone carries bits of shame. And so knowing that it's universal is knowing that it's really normal to go into a counseling office and and feel that, feel that reluctance of, oh my goodness, what's gonna be uncovered, right? And I think similar to a dentist office, um, if something is too pokey, like they stop, they don't just keep on going, right? And I think that's similar as a as a counselor. I'm always very aware of like, are we going into something that's too deep, too, um too sensitive at this point in time, then you know, okay, let's let's back out, let's keep it more mellow for the time being. Um, usually people who contact me are are ready to do a deeper dive into figuring things out. Um, I think the people that I find have the most reluctance are probably parents. Oftentimes, when parents call and they want me to see their kid, I'll usually ask to see the parents first just to get a really good understanding of you know how they see the situation. Well, yes, you can see. Um yeah, but I'm yeah. I would always prefer actually to keep on seeing parents on a continual basis simply because they have a lifelong connection to their kids. They're gonna care more about their kids than I do. I love seeing my clients, but they're not yours, but they're not mine. Yeah, we shouldn't have a lifelong relationship. Um, but parents will have a lifelong relationship. So if I can give parents tools to use with their kids that I would otherwise use if their kids were in the counseling office, I just think that's so rich. But a lot of times there's a reluctance to come in because it's like, uh oh, what is what are we gonna talk about? What are we gonna uncover? Um, but I give a lot of credit to parents who are willing to take that dive in there, right? And to anyone that's coming willing to come to counseling, right? Because again, it's not sometimes it just feels easier to go on like nothing's wrong. Oh pretend you know until the teacups fell down. Yeah, until the teacups all tumble down. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do you think I feel like we are kind of that last generation? Like it was our parents who never went, never went to a psychiatrist or a psychologist, right? And I find like my girls, they they both go. Yeah. Partners go to therapy for men. Like it's uh sometimes there's a stigma for men, especially, you know, blue-collar. Yep. Uh, but I notice too in church there is a lot of young blue-collar men. Yep. It's a it's a bit of a movement.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. I see, I definitely see more women than men, but I do see a lot of guys in my practice, and uh, I think it's awesome. I think it helps them become better men, better fathers, better husbands. Uh, it's pretty awesome the transformation that can happen. I think I actually think it's it's really admirable when dads come in. Um, I think dads oftentimes want to fix a problem. Uh, they want to just have a solution instead of I always think it's like getting in the muck with your kids, you know. It's better to just throw them a lifeline and and get them out. But kids actually don't want that. Kids actually want you to be in there with them and let them figure it out on their own, but be a guide to them, be kind of like there's a lady named Janet Treasure who had animal models of parenting, and the two animals that she really felt would be the most beneficial for us to be like as parents is like a St. Bernard or like a dolphin, where you know that you have this steadiness right beside you or around you, but it's not doing the work for you. Uh because I I'm gonna say a lot of parents make that mistake. Oh, I make that mistake, and I'm a counselor and I make that.
SPEAKER_00My husband says to me, You need to back off. He calls me the puppeteer.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we're all prone. I'm backing off, but yeah, it works. I know. I always say to my kids, I'm like, this is my first time being a parent to 12 and a 15-year-old, you know. So they do give me a lot of grace. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I think too, as God is our ultimate parent. Can you imagine how it must be for him watching us do all of these things?
SPEAKER_03And he's I know, yeah, I agree. I know. I always, I always I am getting quicker at releasing things to God and just hearing from God. I just hear from God, Kristen, I'll take care of it. I love them more than you do, which is hard to imagine. And um, yeah, I just hear God say he's got good things in store for them.
SPEAKER_00I like that. I
SPEAKER_03I always ask people how you hear from God. How I hear from God. I I do a I do a lot of journaling. I just always have random journals all over the place.
SPEAKER_00There's something about writing down.
SPEAKER_03There is something about writing down.
SPEAKER_00If you don't know how to pray, just start. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_03It's true. I agree. I think that writing is amazing. I will write out my thoughts and then usually it still looks like my writing, but I'll really I'll I know it's God talking to me. You know, I'll say, Kristen, this is, you know, this is what I'm gonna tell you. And uh I always think, yeah, I think it's God's wisdom.
SPEAKER_00Do you have a specific other than journaling, do you have a specific prescription for prayer?
unknownHmm.
SPEAKER_03I'm always grateful in prayer. Uh I think that's a good place to start, is just saying what you're grateful for. I think I'm a big believer in neuroplasticity. I mean, that is a thing where we can, where we can change our our ways of thinking. And I think when you start with gratitude and being grateful for what it it you become more grateful for what and you're more able to see things that you can be grateful for. You know, I always say to clients, I have a window in my office and I say I can look outside and say five things that are really terrible, or I can say five things that are really great, and I'll actually go through, you know, a little exercise of what that is. And so I think starting by saying what we're grateful for in prayer is really good, and then asking, God wants us to pray in petition, you know, and ask him, and then yielding to what he ultimately wants, right? We can I think of my kids, they want certain things. Um, and as a parent who can see things from a different perspective, some of those things, yeah, great, I'll grant them, right? Uh they're their wishes, but there's other things that I'm like, no, actually, it's not good for you right now, and I can't really explain to you why it's not, but I think in time you'll see, right? And I just think that's God's way too sometimes.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I just want to touch on uh something because it typically I think it's more in the workplace. I was talking with some people at work, and there is a hamster wheel of complaining and moaning about things. And I'm sure you see, I mean, you probably see a lot of people who are on a pretty negative path and wanting to change it, obviously. Because they're so I uh give us a tool to change our mindset.
SPEAKER_03I just say start with just focusing on something really small, and people will say, Well, run out of things to be thankful for. And I would just say break it down. You know, if you're thankful to be in a home, what what about being a home are you thankful to be in? Yeah. Um, I'm a lot of times thankful for my appliances, for example, and that they work, you know. So it's just it's breaking things down into just really small bits of gratitude that all just change our mindset and create those new pathways, and then recognize that it that's God working in you, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even the negative things that come along, it's what is God, what's God up to in that? How does he want to work in that? You know, if you have if you have someone in your life that's a bit tricky or prickly, it's like, what is what's what's God doing with that? How does he want to work in that? He knows. Just ask.
SPEAKER_00Well, the joke is always, I want patience, give me patience. He doesn't give you patience, he gives you people that require you to develop. Exactly, exactly. And if you put that, if you think of everything in that way, it starts to make a whole totally lot more sense, doesn't it? Yep, absolutely. It's not just about giving you everything you ask for.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely, totally. And he will make ways when there does not seem like a way, he will make ways forward if we trust in him. He really, really, really will.
SPEAKER_00Now you have something interesting that you do. You have your retreats. Tell us about your is it women's retreats?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, I guess they would be open to guys too, but it's always women. It's women. Um, so retreats were an idea that came from two things that I did. So I did the journey course through uh Trinity. Um, but the journey is really a deep dive into three questions who is God, who am I, and what does God desire to do through me? So you spend you spend the first year really digging into those three questions. And at the end of the first year, you do you write your narrative. So you write your whole entire story. Uh, and it probably was the most transformative for me spiritually uh in my life of anything that I've done. So through the journey, our journey leaders, we would go up and do some of these just quiet days of reflection where we would maybe have. I remember one of the verses that we did was John 15, which talks about the vine and the branches, and just long periods where you could just sit with God and um and just be and let him speak. And so that was always really profound to me to just take that time. I think it always seemed like yeah, I don't think I'm gonna be able to just concentrate for two hours and just sit quietly for two hours with God. But you start doing it and you realize those two hours goes by really fast. I mean, they are silent retreats, but silent in a way that you're just talking with God, you're not talking with others. You're already interacting with others throughout the day, but there are definitely times.
SPEAKER_00There's prompt you do prompts.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we do prompts and then um and then you just let God speak, you know, you write, you journal, you walk, pray. Beautiful. Um, and it's it's really quite transformative what God reveals to each one of us. And I think it is more about the slow, it's more about the slowing down and the intentionality. I mean, my favorite verse, um, Psalms 46, 10. Hope I'm getting that right. But be still and know that I'm God, right? And I think that's what God desires for us is to just stop, stop with a hamster wheel, stop with a rat race, stop and be still. Just be still. Like just put your blinders on, turn your phone off, be still and just hear from me. I'm God, I know everything way better than you ever will. Just let me speak into your life. Let me organize it for you. Let me let me give me your agenda, give me your schedule, I'll show you what's important and what you can leave out. And I think we need times of deep reflection to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_00And I mean, wouldn't it be uh how glorious it would be if we could take all of that time every day? But I mean that's not the reality.
SPEAKER_03So just taking just taking a day, just taking a day to do it, you know, and a few hours within that day to just really be on your own with God uh is is pretty profound. It's pretty I I I and I think why I do why I lead the retreats is just because I've had such profound transformation happen in my own life when I've been part of those retreats.
SPEAKER_00So if somebody is interested in a retreat or they want to connect with you, yeah, because we know she's not the social.
SPEAKER_03So how how would somebody get in touch? Um, I do have a website, it's edstromcounseling.ca. Uh, so they can get in touch with me through through that. And usually I I do just a lot of texting with my clients. I'm pretty, pretty old school and just such a small operator that I can do that one-on-one. Uh, but that's how they would get in touch with me, either through my website or yeah, with through my website, and then I can give you my cell phone number. Perfect.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you. That was a lot of insight. That was self-insight, that was parenting. That was it's the whole gamut. I love it. Thank you for coming in.
SPEAKER_03Thanks. Thanks for having me, Toby.
SPEAKER_00And thank you for joining me on Talk with Toby Real Life, Real Faith. Until next time, keep walking in faith, keep trusting God in the everyday, and may his peace meet you right where you're at.