Gavin Konop and the Spiderman Lotus Saga

The boys sit down with director Gavin Konop as he talks Spiderman lotus, life lessons, and the future plans in the industry. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Rare Wave. Number eight. Justin Harry.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Welcome to Rare Wave, where we read only the rarest of waves. I'm your host, Justin, and today we have a very special episode. I don't really have an opening monologue because I couldn't write it down, and honestly, I keep messing up, so whatever. Anyway, um uh I want to welcome our hosts, our second host actually of the podcast. He's a phenomenal guy who um is a guy, I think. Anyway, please welcome Greg Neely to the podcast. What's up, dude? What's up, Doc? And we're back. Dude, nice, nice to nice too. What is this? Is this real? Yes, it's a sweater. I don't know if that's a sweater or just a very thick shirt.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Eh, it's a mix of both. You know what I mean? Really? Yeah, we're improvising today.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

It's good though.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Yeah, it's comfort.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

I feel like you should uh I feel like you should get like uh like cowboy boots or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, no, we're gonna no.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I I could see you with some cowboy boots, bro. I think you'd look very, very hot.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I'm not excited for our guests today, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Oh, yeah. Dude, well, no, I'm hyped.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Come on. Okay, let's get- you know what? Should we just welcome him? Sure, yeah. Honestly, this is we're wasting time here.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

There we are. This man is uh it's a lot of Oh, yeah, I wasn't. Sorry. We'll discuss that later. Okay, anyway, uh this this man is uh a lot of things, honestly. Uh director, writer, producer, um film. What what else are you? What did you say?

SPEAKER_04 1:35

Editor.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Editor, editor? Yeah that's good. Sound designer. Sound designer. Yankees fan. Are you a father yet? Yankees fan.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

I'm a father yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Father, that you know? Uh I'm just kidding. Nice. Um please welcome to Rarewave. Our first our second guest. Our first real guest. Shout out to Danny, we love you. Uh, please welcome Gavin. Okay, how do you say your last name?

SPEAKER_05 1:57

Kanop.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Kanop. I was gonna say that, but I was like, there's a slight chance that it's not. Alright, anyway, please welcome Gavin Kanop to the state, god dang it. Yeah, what's going on? Thank you, man. Oh my goodness, dude. What's up, dude? Good to see you, man. Oh my goodness. Thank you, thank you. Dude, I gotta tell you, when we first uh when I first well, when I first saw you, I was like, that is a nice shirt as well. Thank you. I appreciate that. You're welcome anytime. Is that an Apple Watch? This is an Apple Watch. Yeah. Yeah. It is. I like your watch too. Oh, it's not an Apple Watch.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

You know, it's genuine plastic, actually. Does it work?

SPEAKER_02 2:28

It does work. Right now it's seven something. Yeah. It kind of works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I like to go old school. I like, I like the, you know, but I I think you can like switch up the bands, right? Like you can do the bands with that. An Apple Watch? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can.

SPEAKER_05 2:42

Okay. It's pretty cool. I haven't done it yet.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

How long have you had that one for?

SPEAKER_05 2:45

Probably like a year. Oh, sweet. So it's pretty nice. It's very helpful. Like I don't have to check my phone for messages. Check right here.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

It's really nice.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

You can also run on it. You just hit play.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

You can run on your apple. Oh, you're saying with it. Yeah, no, literally, just hit play. You don't need to measure distance, it does it for you.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah. That's all. Track your sleep. Exactly. All your vitals. Yeah. The vitals part is kind of insane.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

Yeah, I know. It's and it tracks like how long you're asleep for. So you can keep track of that. It's very nice.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

I see my awful sleep schedule every day.

SPEAKER_05 3:14

Exactly. It's so funny. Especially for if you're filming if you're a filmmaker, you're an editor, you don't really sleep at all. Oh yeah, there we go. Not very, not very good.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Yeah. We'll get into that, but when did you s get like when do you edit your movie? Like, are you a morning person, night person, midday person?

SPEAKER_05 3:32

Really, like no particular time. I do edit overnight a lot. Oh shoot. I'll start editing at like 8 p.m. It'll be like just a couple hours. Yeah. And then I'll see the sun like rising outside. Oh shit. Like the line king. Ah, so you're like, what the frick? Like, holy yeah, it's pretty, pretty insane. Like, time really flies when you're editing. Um when you're especially if it's like your own project. Yeah, for sure. And you're just like constant, like all you're thinking about is like what you're working on. Yeah. You're imagining like what you're gonna do. And then yeah, just like the time goes by really quick.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

That's crazy. Yeah, I think um I think that I'm the same way with like any sort of like when I was really into recording music, like one of the my favorite songs that like I ever did was uh a song called Life Without You that kind of blew up with Snowpurdo. I got 3,000 plays on Spotify. Wow. Yeah, it's not impressive. Also, I want to explain something.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Will you all just unsad in the showerless thing?

SPEAKER_02 4:22

So it's what helps what helps is you kind of just let it kind of just then kind of play on loop.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Tell us a little bit uh about yourself or like how you got into this this whole filmmaking process in our life.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Well, when I was super young, um I think a lot of kids, like from my generation, got into stop motion, like with like Legos and toys and things like that, because I had no other way to take a picture like every second, right? Yeah. Okay. So I I was really into like the show Lego Ninjago. Yeah, yeah. I've actually been into it like again, like the past month. I'm kind of embarrassed to tell anybody because it's for like five-year-olds. Yeah. I've been like listening to the the score and anyway. I'm super I'm super into that show. Um and so I had all my like Lego Ninjago movie um like figures. Yeah. And so I do a lot of stop motions there, and then I got a game called Little Big Planet, which I feel like have you yes, did we talk about that at some point?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

I don't maybe, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

But I've got that game where you could make your own movies on there. And so I learned, like, weirdly, I learned a lot about filmmaking through that. Um, that game. I did a lot of Spider-Man movies on there that'll never see the light of day.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

I did it. Wait, so that is like how old are you when it's happening, like 10? About seven, eight. Seven. Bro, because I'm gonna be honest, I was kind of not like I was kind of looking at your YouTube and you have a you uh a video of you and your is it your brother? Yeah, me and my brother were lightsaber fighting? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

Yeah, that was um I was like 10 or 11 when I when I made that one. Yeah. That's when I got my first like iPod. Yeah. And I got like the lightsaber app where you like track the lightsabers and everything. Yeah. My brother was like, I dragged him out to do the fights and he was pissed off the whole time. Really? Oh come on, like let me try this out. We use like like the PlayStation Move controllers for lightsabers because we didn't have real lightsabers.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

Yeah, but see that I feel like as a parent, I'm not a parent, I don't think, but I think that um looking at I know I'm not. Um but looking at like uh like your kids and being like, okay, cool, you're they're using technology, but also being creative and going outside. Yeah, because I feel like I mean you're what 22?

SPEAKER_05 6:19

22.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah, we're we're 24, so like we're not we're pretty much the same generation. So like yeah, being outside, I feel like now like I haven't seen a kid outside doing anything in like ever. Yeah. So that's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_05 6:31

I only really see kids like on their like motorbikes or their motor scooters, but I don't see kids riding like real bikes anymore. Yeah, I just see like the electric ones. I know. Uh but yeah, man. I I like I used to work at a grocery store and I would constantly see like little kids in the carts like on their iPads. Oh yeah, yeah. And they'd just be scrolling on like TikTok and Instagram, and I'd be like, bro, you you're like three.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

The worst is the combination of kids that are on their iPads and they got the little backpack leash. Have you seen that? The backpack leaves?

SPEAKER_00 6:59

I think that's Charlie Peeps, I'll be honest. It's disrespectful, bro. Yeah, that's that's like a that's another level. Yeah. Kids just doing whatever, you're holding the leash, you're not even looking at it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:10

No, I would not let my kid have like technology or an iPad. Like on TikTok, they're scrolling on TikTok and they're like four. Like that's melting their brains away.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

I feel like we got maybe a little bit of less normalcy.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Because like flip phones were still a thing when I was a kid. Like it was like iPod once I was more getting into high school and everything. Yeah. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 7:31

I had a little flip phone when I was like eight. Yeah, same. Like I didn't I didn't have like I didn't get an iPod until I was like, yeah, like 10. So yeah, so anyway, I did a lot of stuff like I'd get my brother, my friends, and we'd film little little movies.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Um has it always been your like main passion? Like you knew like this is just for me, this is what I want to do.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Yeah, my my parents tell me a lot that like they they've never had to worry about like what I want to do because I've kind of expressed the same thing my whole life. And I'm really I'm really lucky to to have that because you know it it for a lot of people it takes some you gotta go through college and you know figure out what you want to do. 23 years. It takes a lot, and you know, I still haven't really you know gotten where I want to go, but I have a very one-track sort of you know mindset with I don't have a plan B, which I think is like essential for it. But yeah, you know, it just developed when I got to high school, I had access to you know better equipment and better resources and things like that. And I just sort of followed the whatever was guiding me the whole time and didn't really think twice about what I wanted to do. So I've just kind of kept pursuing that and I don't have a if I don't make it then my life is not my life. It's gotta be this, you know? It has to be. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

So as far as like um because talking about social media and everything, like, because yeah, I didn't honestly I didn't have anything really until like well I had a phone when I was like 11 and then I went ham on it, and my parents were like, nope, and then they took it away. Yeah, we don't even get into that. But let's just say my brother's a freaking uh snitches. Snitch. He's a snitch. Uh I love him. Anyway, um, but yeah, so um, so was that like were you on any social media as a kid?

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Or like were you just I I wasn't allowed to have Instagram until I was I think s I think I was like 12. Okay. So pretty like normal time for free kids at that time. Yeah. Um and I but I had a personal account. I didn't really do like fan accounts or anything like that for a while. Yeah. Except for my YouTube channel. Yeah. Because I have videos uploaded on there.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:33

But like that was the only one. Instagram I just posted like for my friends.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Yeah, because I'm trying to figure out like how did you kind of cause it it I feel like it has been like I mean you don't really pop off, I feel like, unless you did like at 16 with like a kind of a cult following. Like, was it gradual? Did you post things on like certain forums or like certain like fan accounts or whatever?

SPEAKER_05 9:53

Yeah, it's start like I I made a I made I made a fan account when I was like 14. Spider-Man fan account. Yeah, yeah. And I would I was a little fucking menace on there. Yeah. I was like I was a I was uh very opinionated about Spider-Man and I was very vocal about how I felt about you know certain movies or interpretations of them or whatever. I was a little little chronically online kid around high school. Yeah um and so I I built a platform through just being so opinionated and and loud in the community. Yeah. Um and as time went on, you know, I stopped being so like negative because I would criticize a lot of a lot of stuff, you know, when I was younger. And I it developed over time into being more productive and like pitching what I would do with the character as opposed to what I don't like about certain interpretations. So I turned it into a positive thing, and I think that's how I kind of built more of a platform is when I when I pivoted towards you know being productive and like you know, okay, if I'm not satisfied with what they're doing, then um I I can pitch what what I would what I would do. Right. You know, and I think that that was more that that was more communal and and positive, and people were able to like follow that. You know, it it wasn't so you know toxic the way I was like when I was 14, I was just a little just a little unlikable, man. Like get them out of here.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah. Was it was it so was it on Twitter or was it like uh or like because I'm just trying to because I because I yeah, I didn't really besides like Instagram and then like I guess now TikTok, I never like got into the forums or like the going back and forth on a thing.

SPEAKER_05 11:25

Yeah, really Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Oh Instagram, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:27

And like I man, I would like I would get into I would get into little wars on there with other accounts and beef and drama and make enemies and it was just a whole it's a it's weird to look back on because I I'm less I'm way less online now than I than I used to be and I live more in the real world and so to like look back and think I was part of like this digital world that wasn't real and I was like buried in it all the time and like that consumed the majority of my days. Um it's really really strange to look back on because that's that's something that hasn't happened in human history before to have like an alternate you know world that you've that you're part of, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Well, I think that's partly what we we were saying earlier with our generation because yeah, dude, I mean we've progressively uh I was listening to actually Rogan was talking about this, and like who is the greatest generation in time in terms of like what we're getting at such a rapid pace. You think about like the greatest generation, they saw like a horse and buggy, and then they saw like, you know, 1940s radios, television. I think there's something crazy about the internet to where we go, all right, cool. We already had like phones, we had cars and whatnot, but there's something about the internet, bro, that's like a curse and a blessing at the same time where you can literally have anything, like any information wise it within a snap of your finger. Yeah. Like I remember, yeah, I remember never mind, I'm not gonna get into that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:49

No, I mean what I've noticed is like the trajectory of the world is just getting quicker, quicker, quicker with everything. You know, because I I I appreciate the process of doing research on something and having to dig for something, and you know, because you learn a lot in that journey. Yeah. And I've I've had to really scale back on, you know, AI was really enticing at first because it was so quick, yeah. You could get your answer really fast. Yeah. But I I think you you lose a lot of, you know, that you know, letting your the cogs in your brain turn when you're researching. You go into a a library and you know, you do really manual research and you learn a lot on during that. But with with AI, it's so yeah instantaneous and they're just continually trying to speed up the world, you know, and the the rate that we consume things and and do things and just trying to increase uh output all the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

No, yeah, I I kind of liken it to I feel like a uh you know, like in math where like I just use a calculator, but you don't like realize that your brain is that muscle is being developed. So then it yeah, you're applying it to math in this part, but then there's something about like people that are really good at mental math, those are the type of people that are really great at problem solving because they're just going, okay, cool, this is that. I suck at math, so I'm like obviously like you know Greg's good at math, he could do mental math. Like Greg, what's 10 plus 10? 12. See?

SPEAKER_05 14:07

Damn, that was quick. That's crazy, dude.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Here, here, give him one, give him one. It's a gift.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

What's two times four? Six.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Dude. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

I thought no, it's eight. Wait.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

No, it was a joke.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

See, I'm slow sliding. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

But Justin was always very good at school.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Oh, yeah. I was like, yes, I did. What are you talking about? Yeah, no, I didn't. Yeah, I definitely did. What are you talking about? No, because I was like, so did you.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

We had terrible jobs.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

No, but no, Justin was a little bit more of a you know, actually, like he said his phone, he'd always he more did not have his phone than I actually have his phone. He was always up to some like mischief. And he'd be like, he'd have it for a week, and next thing he did say, Yeah, I got my phone taking my phone.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Oh yeah, my parents love to take my phone away. My parent my dad's a pastor, so he's very like, they're very like uh uh Christian.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Which which is great, but also which is but also like it just was like we had a very like stricter ish. It doesn't fit with help. And uh anyway, so enough about my Carl and Joanna. Um so I want to go back to kind of Spider-Man, because alright, so you got kind of an intro to that, you got your phone around that time, and you started doing movies. How'd you get into Spider-Man? Because I'm gonna be honest, dude, I have never met anybody that was so like knowledgeable about well, actually no, I have, but you were the first person that I would like came in contact with that was like, oh, this is my thing. And then I met people who are like into Godzilla and like other things.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

So yeah, how'd you get I don't even like I I've only heard stories of how I got into Spider-Man because I don't even have a memory of my life like before him. Like it's it's a really uh weird, like permanent, inescapable connection I have with the character because I I mean I'm told that I was sat in front of the TV when I was like two or three, um, and Sam Raimi's first movie was playing on the TV, and I was just like locked in on it, and I couldn't get my eyes off it, and it was just an obsession. Um, so I don't even have like a memory of getting into it. I just have memories of like gaining more knowledge of the character. Yeah. Um, but like man, that character, I just feel like intrinsically tied to him, and the past few years have been a little bit difficult with trying to get myself away from the character because you know, making a feature-link film about him basically by yourself in terms of like with the writing and the directing and the post-production and everything, like you're that's all you're thinking about. So I was more connected to the character than I'd ever been before because it was every day just through Spider-Man. And I've tried you know, I I it's good now to get myself away from the character, um, but it's really hard to like keep him keep him away because it's like it's just like tied to my brain, you know, like like connected to it. Yeah. Um but you know, I'd I've done, I think I've done well. It's like an addiction, like I'm trying to like get rid of an addiction to this this character. Like, and I you know, there was a period where I would actually stop people from bringing up Spider-Man around me, like in 2024, like right after that the movie came out. Yeah. Because I was like, I just don't want to talk about him anymore. I was so exhausted. And we had like me and Spider-Man had a little breakup. Yeah, yeah. Now we're on like we're on good terms.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Okay, yeah. My bad for bringing it up, but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 17:11

No, no, you're true. Like I can I can talk about him now. It I had to go through that arc where I'm I'm just completely I had to have no contact with Spider-Man for a while.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Yeah. And also, dude, it's I because you come across as like older than you are, but also too, you're 22. It came out when did it come out in 2023?

SPEAKER_05 17:28

23, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

So you were I was 20. 20.

SPEAKER_05 17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Yeah, dude. For anybody.

SPEAKER_05 17:32

Or I was 19, actually.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

That's crazy. 19. So you kind of just grew up with Spider-Man. When did you so you're because okay, so you were saying, like, alright, cool, I'm watching, I'm kind of going back and forth with people online, and then I'm, you know, actually, let me actually show what I would do with the character. Do you start writing the script, or are you kind of telling people, hey, like, if I could do this, this is what I would do?

SPEAKER_05 17:55

So I started with this, it's so obnoxious to like look back on because how did I have this much time? But I I I developed an entire like fictional 10 season long Spider-Man TV show, like a live action TV series of the character.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:09

And I like did a bunch of like I'd pull actors from from the industry and I'd cast them as the characters, and I'd use footage from their movies to make like fake trailers and fake intros and things like that. And so I wrote like an in this entire pitch for a TV show like season by season with the whole plots and arcs laid out. And people got really invested in that. Like kind of I kind of treated it like as if it were a real running TV show. Yeah. Um, and I was able to build a following off of that, or um, like get get people really attached to like I guess like my Spider-Man. Yeah. Um, and kind of created like this desire to to actually see it come into fruition. Yeah. Um, and so I had a plan that whole time of like this is my pitch, and then I'm going to reveal that I'm making a movie. So the script was simultaneous with with that that fake TV series. Wow. So the plan was, you know, create create a desire for people to to see what I what I would do, get them invested, and then propose to them, okay, look, now I now I actually have the the ability to make to make this, you know, a d a version of it, you know, because the movie was uh it had a lot of beats from that fake show, yeah, you know, yeah, but and it carried over a lot of like like a lot of my castings for for for Spider-Man were like very similar. Okay. Um and things like that. So I was able to kind of let that carry over um and use the momentum of that to keep the train moving. And so by the time I announced the movie, it was like a week after my show ended.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Oh shoot. So everyone was kind of like, oh shoot, all right, that's kind of expected that you would do kind of okay, and so actually.

SPEAKER_05 19:42

So I dropped the show or dropped the ending, and then I did like a countdown right after people. Well, what is this? Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

And so this is timeline like what 21 is 22? January 2021. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 19:51

Is when I finished like the show. Yeah. And then I announced the crowdfunding campaign like a week later. Um, and then I had a whole plan of like, you know, slowly give people more information over time as opposed to like drop it all at once. So like the costume I hadn't revealed yet, but I ordered it before announcing the movie because I wanted to show people it's not gonna be like made my backyard type of thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Cause because, and not to interrupt you, but like what's been up to this point, what's been like the culture of fan films? Because I think I honestly think that you probably change how like fan films were like, because you were you raise the most out of any fan film.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

There are there are fan films that have raised more than me, but I think superhero fan films I I think m I think Spider-Man got the most. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Uh I don't I don't know what the metrics are, but yeah, as far as like I feel like, yeah, I feel like as far as day like people amount of people who watched it, the amount of money raised, I think as far as Spider-Man's concerned, I feel like you're doing it as far as you know what I mean. So like were you had you seen some of those? Be like, alright, cool, I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_05 20:55

Yeah, I think it was it was like less so about not wanting to do what other fan films do, and more so trying to overcome like the stereotype of a fan film. I dig it, yeah. Uh so like I didn't particularly like I wasn't super familiar with with like fan films. Like there were some that I'd watched growing up and things like that, but I knew that there was a stereotype around fan films of like, you know, the expectation is you're shooting on your iPhone in your backyard type of thing.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

You could hear an airplane go over. Right, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, and you got supposed to be two like uh 1776, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:24

You got and you you know, you a lot of fan films they would have things from like existing Spider-Man movies, they'd like have the same costumes or they they'd pull from things. So I wanted to like prove to people that I was trying, like the attempt was to do uh something that felt like it could be taken seriously. For sure, you know. Um and so that's why the costume was was really important. Yeah. To show people like, look, we really are trying to do something here, and it's not like an iPhone type of project, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Now uh so the designers, which by the way, they're where are they from? Uh Italy. Italy. Okay. Because I met them at the premiere and they were super chilling. They're like, hey, we gotta do it. I can't do it. You're awesome, man. What's up, man?

SPEAKER_03 22:06

I didn't know who he was. I thought he was just a homeless guy. Because you know, designers, they kind of dressed like a little crazy.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

You know, I think they made their fiddle custom for the premiere. Like I think the custom made that. That's pretty badass.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Oh wow. That's pretty badass.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

They're pretty they're pretty sick, man. They're cool.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Yeah. So okay, so we're great, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Who was there that day? Long stuff. Justin actually ran out of gas. I had to help him out that day. No, I didn't. I didn't know not that day. It was what it was. But um yeah, the costumes actually, the designs and everything. I was there in the premiere and everything. Seeing those. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like that frame each side when you walk in.

SPEAKER_05 22:40

I still like, you know, I have them all in like a bin in my clock. And sometimes I feel it like calling to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Like I can't. Botus do. No.

SPEAKER_05 22:49

They're like, do it again. I'm like, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'll pull, I'll pull the bin out and like I'll hold the costume like one day. Yeah, dude. I can't.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Well, dude. How was because like I think it's a mix of being so young, also raising that amount of money, the amount of expectations that ensued.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

How was that for you? Because full disclosure, Justin was in the film. I I conned him so hard on a few of the things. But when you when you really do look at the full picture, um, especially like a 16-year-old running this film, getting all this attention, um didn't like Sam Raimi or someone tweet at it?

SPEAKER_05 23:27

It was John Watts.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yeah, John Watts getting like attraction like that. And also like because of that toxicity online, like anything you do wrong can be taken very harshly. How how was that explosion dealing with it? Also, I feel like a lot of ego can always ensue there. Where when I'm getting all this praise to do this and this, I can get very like narrow-minded and oh it's this way, and then you can quickly learn, like, oh, I was blowing smoke up my own ass. That's not at all how it should work.

SPEAKER_05 24:00

Yeah, so for me, like, so I had a so there, yeah, there were a lot of discussions about like ego, and I've thought about it a lot about kind of how people were looking at that. Um, I've ultimately determined that there's a lot of projection from people, and if they were kind of trying to put themselves my shoes, my position, and imagine how they would feel in in my position, right? And you know, I can understand that. My my relationship with egos like that all of that happened kind of before I even started making the movie. So I had a lot of problems with ego that I think I think people who had followed me for a long time uh had picked up on from when I ran the fan account. I had a big ego from the fan account for everyone because I was like, I I have this authority position on Spider-Man, and I've got all people agree with my opinions and all that stuff. That was when I was like 15.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Right.

SPEAKER_05 24:49

And I got humbled pretty hard many times from that. Um and I had like there were periods where I'd like quit the account and tried to like you know leave social media because I would get you know in some pretty intense fights about the character. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

So by the Was this always online? Did you ever run into anybody like user 4467 Patriot 9, whatever? Well I know you yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:10

Well, back before the movie, no. After the movie or when I started it, there were there were there have been a lot of runs, all all positive, yeah, yeah, which was surprising me. I thought, I thought I'm gonna get killed at some point. You know? Yeah. But luckily, no, I've had I've had all positive like there'll be I honestly like literally like two weeks ago, I walked into um, I think it was Chick-fil-A, and I heard the workers whispering, like lotus guy, like it's the lotus guy.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

It's like fucked. I can't get away from it from the lotus guy. But it's that's always, yeah, I feel like it's always anytime you get recognized, it's always even if it's you have some sort of con it's always positive. No one's ever gonna be like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

It's decently respectful where they could have very well been saying some nasty stuff online. Yeah, it there's always like, hey, like you you have to commend someone for the project.

SPEAKER_05 25:56

I mean Yeah, I mean, I'd like I had a there was only one kind of negative interaction, which you know, somebody had an idea about me and we talked it out for like an hour, like this random person like near my where I worked at my grocery store job, and I was able to just talk to them and they were able to see that you know they were pretty wrong about a lot of things. Because the the the problem is that well, I'll finish the thing about the ego first and I'll get into like the PR stuff. Like, so I got humbled prior to actually starting the movie, and so I learned a lot of lessons about ego in advance because I had like a big social media following, yeah. And so, like, by the time I started that I had been aware of of what an ego can do to you and how to kind of control that. Yeah, so like the honestly, the the attraction and attention didn't build as much of an ego as much as it just built a lot of gratitude for me, right? And I think people kind of construed how I was when I was younger versus how I was when I made the movie, and and kind of also the level projection of what would I feel like in his shoes, like of course I'd have an ego and things like that, yeah. Without realizing that like people didn't really realize where I was mentally during all that. I just felt pure gratitude and happiness the whole way through. Like when it was praised, you know, when I when I was getting that that traction and attention and things, and in terms of like the pressure, I'd I just wanted to make a Spider-Man movie. Yeah, I wasn't trying to make anything viral or make anything go big, like I just wanted to make a movie that I could watch and enjoy. Like I still go back and watch parts of it, and yeah, you know, I did my I did a recut of it that I quite like. Yeah. Um so you know, I I go back and watch it as a fan, like I just wanted to make something that I could enjoy, so I just tuned out a lot of expectations, and I think that's why when the movie like when I dropped the movie, it just it wasn't what people were anticipating, and I didn't factor in what the reaction would be because I just I don't know, I just didn't I didn't factor in what people would think. And I I should have more, yeah, you know, because I ultimately what I didn't really take into account people had donated money for it, and so I there's a degree of owing people. Right. I still feel like I delivered what I said I would, but not exactly to the quality that I that I wished it would have been, you know. So I don't know, there was a there was a there were a lot of factors with with that, but ultimately like when I was shooting, I didn't feel pressure because I felt like I'm just making the I'm making what I want to see. You know, I was like I was the audience member and the person I was delivering the movie for at the end of the day. Um and then the recut was more so for the people who were let down, yeah, disappointed. You know, I tried to try to try to mitigate certain things and and give them give them kind of what they were expecting in instead.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Yeah. Um but that's honestly in that that's where I think true authenticity comes because you will get burnt I feel like in any sort of regard, whether it's entertainment, arts, just life in general, you'll get burnt out if you're always trying to constantly do something to make people like it, you know what I mean? Or like to be like, alright, cool, I'm doing this because I think this is what you want. Because you can never really read the minds of people. I think the only thing with this is that people, you know, there was money involved, you know what I mean? So it's people had kind of a stake in it, and so they were like, Alright, cool, we're gonna get this, and like yeah, so I what was that kind of something that you kind of came to pretty easily? Like, okay, that's probably why, or over time looking back because also too, again, you're still young, you know what I mean? Yeah, so you know.

SPEAKER_05 29:13

I yeah, I I I I wasn't sure how to contend with the backlash when it came out, right? Because in my mind it was it was the movie that I wanted to make, yeah you know, all flaws aside, and so I was really shocked by the reaction to the to the movie. Um because I you know I knew of course there would be backlash regardless. I mean it was it was it was inevitable, but like the degree of it and the amount of like hatred that was brought towards it, that was unprecedented for me. Right. That was like super out of left field. Um and I think that I think people really misconstruing my motivation for making the movie. There was a lot of there was a lot of accusations of like me making it for spite or like me trying to prove a point. And it literally like was never about proving a point. Yeah. You know, I I I just I feel like a lot of time a lot of things I had said to people publicly, like really begging people to not compare it to official movies and just you know appreciate it on its own merits. Yeah. Um, and people just sort of disregarded any statements I made about not comparing or not trying to compete, just all got tossed out the window in exchange for a narrative that I had no control over. Um, and I mean there's there's a whole myriad of like, you know, not having a PR manager was really hard because I couldn't manage fake accusations, true ones, you know, uh taken out of context was like I couldn't sort through things. So like people could whip up a screenshot in five seconds, slap my logo on it, and toss it out. And I my voice had no power to to take it down.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

And also the the tough thing about it too is that um you know that you had this stuff come out, and then also once the movie came out, there was like a whole so you didn't feel like kind of it was like another another wave of going on.

SPEAKER_05 30:57

And I was prepared to like it's it's crazy. Every single thing that like that entire second wave of controversy, not a single true thing from any of that.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 31:05

And I was prepared to respond and like make statements and whatever, but I thought, okay, this time I'm just I'm just not gonna respond because none of it's true. So I'm not gonna give any of it validity. Yeah. And it just that strategy didn't work either because people just took those and ran with them.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 31:20

And I had you know, I I was ready to go out with evidence and proof and disprove things and whatever, but I had learned by that point people were not going to listen to anything that I said, and I just didn't know what to do. Like I I had no I had no connections to like a PR guy to to try to you know put my my statements out there and you know control put a the control what was going on.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Right.

SPEAKER_05 31:43

Um and so I thought I thought by ignoring it it would just go away. Um and just that didn't work either. So I I still honestly it's it's a mystery to me of how to how to deal with that in the online age with I mean and then like I just thought you know AI came along soon after that, and now just knowing how how easily things can be faked, it's getting scarier and scarier. Like I I would I would log into Twitter and see my name slapped on a message that I'd never typed before. Jeez. And it would just be like millions of retweets, millions of likes. Yeah. And I could say, I could like it's really easy to like how do you how do you disprove something that was never proven? You know, because a lot of the screenshots were not backed up, they weren't validated, whatever. I could say I didn't say that.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

People don't want to believe me. Right. And I how am I supposed to disprove it? I don't have a way to disprove that I you know what I mean? So it was that part was really tough, and then trying to take accountability for you know like real things from when I was 13, right, versus trying to disp like you know, disprove the fake ones. Yeah, it sounds like you're deflecting if you say it's fake. It sounds like you're taking responsibility for what you didn't say if you take accountability. So that was really hard to like how do I address all this? Like it was it was tough. Yeah, it was yeah, it was a storm.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

And I remember I I've I I think I texted you, I think I texted you and Warden, I think, like the first the first time around. Because for me, like, dude, one thing I'm very, very blessed with, I'm very, very happy is about is that I have probably four or five guys in my life besides my family that I can go to and like even if I don't want to hear it, they'll give me like good advice. Yeah. I know that they're there for me and I'm there for them. Greg's one of them. Um, and so was there anybody in your thumbs up sound like it's not bad. Yeah. Um no, he's the man. Um is there any so was there anybody in your life at that point that you you know you just went to and was like, I don't know what the hell's going on.

SPEAKER_05 33:41

I'd yeah, the the producer, you I think he drove you, Jacob. Jacob's the man. Jacob's the man. He picked you up and drove you to say he he's somebody that I talked to pretty much daily after the controversy. Yeah. Because I just I don't know. It was I was getting a lot of opinions from people that were conflicting, and some some people wanted me to say this, some people wanted me to say that, and I was just getting tugged in every direction of like what I should be doing, because you know, a lot of people had a stake in the project and they wanted to save face. Yeah. So I'm getting advice that will benefit them, or I'm getting advice that'll benefit this person, but throw this person under the bus. And I wasn't I didn't want to I didn't want to throw anybody under the bus unfairly, and I also didn't I didn't want to be untruthful because there were a lot of like I don't know, there was there were a lot of people trying to pr you know persuade me in certain directions and I I wasn't willing to budge for it. Yeah. Um and Jacob was the only one who stayed authentic and and you know true to the true to the facts, true to the true to um being authentic with people. Yeah. And I knew, you know, people are still going to kind of think what they want to think, and that's fine. Um, but really he helped me just be authentic and true. Yeah I'm still like I'm proud of my apology video still. I felt like I addressed things pretty well. Yeah. Um, and the comments seemed to appreciate it too. Uh but still people would take that out of context. And right. Like I saw um when I did the video, there was like a TikTok that was like, he just cried the whole time and didn't apologize. And it had thousands of likes. It's like I didn't shed a single tear, and I s I don't know. Like I think yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

It it's interesting. I you see it online all the time. You were a product and you had to experience it. There's there's a very much um rush to hate. And it becomes cool to hate and uh point at someone's downfall for your own entertainment without any like actual backup. I I talked with Justin, he's like, dude, I had a great experience. Like everything about this, like said all that, it was it was fantastic. And I remember we talked about that, and um even just like hate after the show, and like, oh, I would have done this. I I think you nailed it, where there's a lot of times you'll look at someone and like, oh, this should have happened this. And I remember I I believe it was my dad who told me, like, no, you're looking at them what you would do in their shoes. That's completely different. And don't confuse the two. And it was it was very much like a light in the tunnel moment of like, oh wow, that's very true. Like there's a certain arrogance of like you put yourself into someone's shoes, and then not even factoring in the part of the age. And all the things. If you dig into anyone, any certain like little thing, someone will explode about the smallest thing, and then there's a very much like righteousness to it and kind of point and holier than that.

SPEAKER_05 36:28

Yeah, there was like like people were trying to also like get me to do a lot of performative things that didn't feel authentic, and like I just felt like I wasn't the person to do that. Like, I just I felt wrong and I felt fake, you know, like people wanted me to fake things to like earn back trust from people and like do performative things, and I was like, I I don't f I don't know, that doesn't feel right to me. And so like I yeah, people people did try to put themselves in my shoes and like yeah, say what they would have done or whatever, but like ultimately I I felt like any move that I was going to make would have been wrong. Right. So I just tried to do what felt authentic and that's it, and not what would win people over, you know, so much. Like you know, people want I don't know, just I didn't want to didn't want to get into that. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

They're not the ones dealing with who you're dealing with. Their advice, I I I want to hear it, especially if it's uh unbiased advice. If it's from someone who genuinely cares about you and your well-being, absolutely, I I want to hear that wholeheartedly. I like to call it a bubble. And I have this certain circle that I know loves me wholeheartedly. And I will listen to their advice completely with an open mind. I might disagree with it. Let me actually think about this, because I know this person has their best interest in mind. If they don't, to be honest, I'll I will take it lightly. If it's not someone that I know knows me well enough to call out something, whatever it may be, it's important to look at it, but also look where that that word is coming from.

SPEAKER_05 37:57

Yeah, I I wanna I want to be surrounded by people who will call me out and be critical and be truthful. Like I I want to know if I'm doing something that's not the right thing I should be doing, or the best thing I could be doing, you know. Like I I I'd I've honestly started to kind of kind of cut out people who have just been like, you know, they would praise what I'm doing to my face and then they'd criticize it somewhere else. I just want people to tell me bluntly, and I do the same for people, like sometimes people, my friends will send me a script that they wrote, and if I think it's terrible, I'm gonna tell them that. I I don't want to go and talk to somebody else about it being terrible, I want to tell them that it's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

And I have no idea how many times I've looked at him and said, This song is awful. Perfect. That's joke. It's exactly funny. It's exactly funny. Most of them aren't, you know what I mean? And that's just how it is. Yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Honestly, it's it's great. And the like, yeah, because it's like uh you want people around you that could tell you, so then that way you grow as a person because you don't grow without pains growing pain. You know what I mean? So it's like, alright, cool, cut that out, do that, do this. Um and it's also cool uh cool too because like I remember dude going back to kind of the dealing with it of kind of the yeah, kind of just like the whole thing where it's like uh having to deal with people that are like on, you know, one way in front of your face, and then on the other side they're saying all this stuff online. Yeah, because I remember uh did I ever tell you when uh the New York Times hit me up? Did I say that?

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they c and they called me up, and it was like they were almost expecting me to like shit talk you.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

It was the weirdest thing. Well, you know what's interesting, like not to pivot, but like none of the actual rumors about the movie came from the cast and crew themselves. It was all from people outside of like this person heard about this, or this person heard about that, yeah, or this person wasn't involved in the production, so they were bitter and pulled stuff out. Yeah. But everybody within the cast and crew, like, actually only had positive things to say. Like I don't know if you saw about the VFX artists, like there were accusations that they were mistreated and they weren't paid and whatever. The VFX artists all individually came out and defended me and said they were paid well and they were treated well, and they actually provided evidence of me you know being fair with them. I didn't know that. People exactly, people completely disregarded it and decided to speak for them. You know, because uh it was one disgruntled VFX, former VFX guy that the rest of the VFX team kind of we all wanted to get out.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

And so he he, the one guy, decided to come forward about because that's something I saw a lot, especially once the movie came out, all the kind of reaction videos, you were like, get this guy in the VFX, and I was like, Man, this so I I thought that was one where I was like, dang, I don't know what happened with the VXX VFX movie.

SPEAKER_05 40:28

Yeah, no, they okay, they released a video, like all of them talking about their experience working on it, and it's like at the at the end of the video they provided screenshots of our conversations and provided proof of me paying them, and they only had good things to say, but again, the internet, like I the way they did with my video of like twisting it for whatever reason, did the same thing with them. Like they would speak over the people that they're trying to victimize, you know. Yeah, that's it was really insane. That was the worst part for me. Like I I thought, okay, for sure if it's coming from their mouths, yeah, people will change. Nope. Man, totally disregarded. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Well, that's that's people for you. But I want to get into the movie. Okay. Well shit. The greatest movie I've ever been a part of. Oh god, the only movie been a part of.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

Actually, no, that's not true. I I've been well, I've had two minutes, two seconds.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

It's not about me today. It's about Gabby. Yeah, it's about Gabby. And I want to talk about the movie because um I will say this. It was the pr it the premiere was was, in my opinion, one of the best nights of my life. Because I was, dude, for the heck at it's it was so hot though.

SPEAKER_05 41:33

Dear God, bro. Alright, let me tell you though. All right, I sweat a gallon of the game.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Also, Greg, the entire time. I was going, dude, I'm sweating, I'm still sweating. I was like, bro, watch the movie.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

No, Mike, I could have wrung my shirt out. It was bro. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 41:46

All right, so we got tonic theater, by the way. Great theater. Except for their air conditioning.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Because Did you guys know that going in that there was no AC or?

SPEAKER_05 41:56

No, so we paid everything. We we they they did not warn us in advance to the payments. Like, we we made the deposit, we made the payments, everything like that. We got the theater rented out, and literally like a week before, they're like, hey, by the way, the AC has been out for like a year. Like, what?

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Like got that check once it hit the bank account.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Oh, by the way. Yeah, you go to the thermostat, it's just no thermostat, it's just a freaking hole in the wall.

SPEAKER_05 42:18

So we're like, wait, what? Like, is there anything you can you could do about that? They're like, well, and it was like, they were like, yeah, it's gonna be a pretty hot night, you know, August. Yeah, it was August. In the middle of August, yeah. And I'm like, can you guys like get big fans or something in here? I I don't know. Can you provide some ventilation? They're like, I don't know, we can do some ventilation too.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

I'm sure that wasn't cheap. That was a it's an iconic theater.

SPEAKER_05 42:39

Well, a few days before they're like, Yeah, we got the AC back up and running. We're like, oh, sweet, so we'll be good. Yeah, and then the day of the premiere, we're like, Where's it at? Where's the AC at? And they're like, oh, it's it broke again. And I was not aware of how hot it got because I was in the front, you know, so I wasn't around other people. Yeah, and so by the time I like turned around at the end, everybody's drenched, everybody's like dripping wet.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

Listening, like this.

SPEAKER_05 43:04

You're like, you're thinking everyone's crying the diagnosis. And they must have really liked it. No, man, they were yeah, that was that was pretty awful. I I I did not anticipate that. And especially with how long that movie is. Yeah, dude. Having to sit there in the burning hot heat. Yeah, it's a lot of movie. I I don't pity any of them.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Yeah, no, it was um, but I I the night itself was fun, and I remember because it was my sister's birthday, so we all went back to the house and got to bring my mom, and then you were you with your, I'm assuming your parents and what the hell I was with everybody, and it was a great night.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

Like, yeah, especially because I didn't know about how hot it was. So I I got to actually enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

But that was really cool though, because you got to see something that like and it was cool because fans showed showed up, right?

SPEAKER_05 43:49

That was just no, genuinely. I like jokes aside, man, that was insane. The turnout was pretty insane. Yeah, because I remember being in the theater and I was like freaked out that nobody was either nobody was. Gonna show up, yeah, yeah, or I was gonna get like tomatoes thrown at me or something. So I'm freaking out the whole day, and I'm like getting the mannequin set up and all this stuff, and you know, I'm waiting, and somebody comes in and they're like, dude, don't like look at the line outside. And I went over to like remember there was like a like a gate. Yeah, yeah. I look out and I'm like, holy shit, I back up, and somebody showed me a video of like the line wrapping around the theater. Yeah, and that freaked me out even more. Oh shit. Yeah, people coming in, they're like barging through security, people coming in through the side, and yeah, I think it was like 1300 or 1400 people there. Jeez, yeah. Because the entire bottom got filled up, and then they had to go to the top. We were gonna close off the top, yeah. Um, but we had to open it up. Um, so that was that was insane. And then after the movie was done, um, I went up on the stage and a lot of people lined up to talk about the movie, and yeah, that was honestly very emotional because everybody that lined up, they were fans of Spider-Man and they'd been following for however long. And yeah, I had a lot of emotional conversations with people, and that's what that's why I think when the movie came out, I was so shocked because the reaction at the premiere was you know very positive. Positive for sure. Yeah, there was a a standing ovation at the end of it. It was like, you know, so I think it was I was shocked when it came out. Yeah, you know. It also might have been because the the heat Yeah, they're like, it's done.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

So they're like, okay, get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

That was tough. No. That was a tough one. No, that I mean, honestly, and that was really cool too, because you know, you yeah, dude, you get to see a name, because again, bro, I use your name on an Instagram or a username on a TikTok. But if you see something, I remember one there were I didn't I didn't know what to expect. So I told my mom was like, Alright, cool, let's everyone dress nice. Greg wore a nice t-shirt. That's great.

SPEAKER_03 45:37

There's a number of new. It was like a full wool.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

No, no, don't talk about thank God, bro. Because every one of us and my boys, we all like dressed up, and Greg shows up, he's like, I got the t-shirt. I'm like, You got the t-shirt. Oh, I mean, it was a nice t-shirt.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Some wool pants as well. Oh wow. So hot.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

But um, yeah, dude. So yeah, it was it was yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

There was like also like there were some positives. Like, I remember, I mean, this isn't very biased. Justin's shocker scene, I really enjoyed. I I think the best action happened in the first five minutes.

SPEAKER_05 46:09

Like, my idea at the time was like, okay, open it like a like a typical superhero movie and then good like banter and all that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

I like that scene. Okay, I've always wanted to ask you, the Green Goblin, there was like a minute of a minute.

SPEAKER_05 46:23

Yeah. Yeah. So he was we only added him because of the increased budget. Like he wasn't gonna be in the film at all.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Because like the only scenes were him just getting the hell beat out of him. And then it never went back. Yeah. It's like, oh yeah, what happened to the squirt?

SPEAKER_05 46:39

I only added that because that's the nickname I showed.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

We'll go later.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

Uh no, I mean, I we I had when I opened the crowdfunding, I told people no fights, there won't be any action. Really? I told people you're getting a Spider-Man drama.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 46:54

People knew that when they funded it.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

That's very interesting then, because okay, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_05 46:58

Yeah, I told people very there'll be maybe one swing scene and no action. Yeah. And people knew that when they when they funded.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Now, is the reason why you said that was because you're thinking budgeting wise or or you're just strictly thinking story-wise. I want this to be emotional.

SPEAKER_05 47:11

Well, the goal was 20k when I opened it. Okay. I was only looking for 20k to make the drama. Like it was gonna be like an hour long. It hit 112k.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Oh my gosh. It was like a I didn't hit that much. 112k?

SPEAKER_05 47:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

Jeez.

SPEAKER_05 47:24

I I didn't yeah. It was I didn't know what to do. That was the budget for the rain, dude. Every three minutes. There's rain everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 47:35

I was just pregnant with rain inside the air. We're just in the hot leader going off right now. I don't want to be there.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

It's cold.

SPEAKER_05 47:43

It's cold.

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Please rain in here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:45

No, but the it's so funny. Like the rain scene. I don't know if you remember the rain. When he's at the cemetery. It was one at the cemetery with Harry. Uh we literally connected like a few hoses from the college across the street, and we got the producer like put his thumb on the hose. That was the rain.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

That's what it was.

SPEAKER_05 48:01

Yeah, it wasn't even a machine. Like he just covered it with his face. It looked great. I thought it turned out just raining on it.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Is that the scene with is that where it's who is it? Mariah and it's with Sean. He's at the grave. Oh, it's raining on him.

SPEAKER_05 48:13

Um yeah, it was just a fire, like a hose from across the street. Because it looked yeah, it looked like it was raining. I I was super happy with how because I I loved rain at the time. I mean, you know, it was like, oh, there's dad. They're dead, so we'll put rain in. We'll put rain in. Oh my goodness. It's the heavens crying, you know. But is that why there's so much rain? You're like, this looks great. It's incredible. Let's throw in the rain like wherever we can find it.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

Oh, there's you but you've had this love of Spider-Man, but then you're also new to actual filmmaking. Because that's something I saw a lot too, where people go, this nigga doesn't come in. Well, this brother doesn't know how to um like stuff and everything. But also, dude, it's your first movie, bro. Yeah. Like, if I sat down and tried to make a movie, my establishing shots might be a little long, my lighting might be off, you might not be able to hear this going on. So, like, what was that like was that something afterwards you were like, okay, this is like I know this is my first kind of try at this, or you're going, okay, I think this is good, and then like what was that kind of process of like Yeah, I I um put that together.

SPEAKER_05 49:16

Like, I I always say that I went into it a Spider-Man fan and I came out of it a filmmaker because of how much I learned about filmmaking through that. Like, I honestly think the most like I am actually very, very grateful that I got torn apart by so many people on a stage like that. Like my film was just torn to shreds because how many people make their first film and people are too afraid to tell them what's wrong with it and they don't learn their lessons. Right. I am grateful that I put it out there and millions of people were able to say, You fucked up on this, or this is terrible, this is garbage. And I could I could look back on it and say, you know what, I I agree with that, I don't agree with that, or I you know, I was able to to really like learn what was wrong, and that's why I think the recut is just so much stronger. For sure. Because I just I learned how you just can't keep it like you can't drench people in the same emotion for two hours. Like you can't, I think I wanted every scene to be the best scene, and so I went super hard on the drama with everything, right? And you just drench people and bore them and tire them out. You gotta have like a roller coaster in order for them to feel the emotion. So I tried to with the recut, I did a more like I had I had lighthearted beats and I kind of drop you know dialed back the emotion in certain places. So the the ending and the parts where it really mattered, those could hit hard. Yeah. As opposed to sad scene, sad scene, sad scene, sad scene, traumatizing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Because there it is a it is a science of filmmaking, but also I think a lot of it too is yeah, bro, freaking growing pains. I think also, too, a lot of people that are watching this and they're going, man, I've I've had growing pains, let's say from like a filmmaker or director, and I didn't have this budget. So that's in you know, even more so they're going, frick this guy, because this guy got this, however, you know, 100, whatever, 12.

SPEAKER_05 50:53

There's a lot of like because I man, it the opportunity that for your first movie to to I mean you have unlimited creative control and you have a comfortable budget like that. I mean, it is still a a micro budget, yeah, but for a fan film to have that money is pretty incredible. So like you didn't have I didn't have anybody over my shoulder telling me what to do. Yeah. I also had you know the the money to do what I wanted to do. Yeah. And so like I I really do feel like I got to make the movie I wanted to make, and I it is an opportunity that is like one in a million to be able to do that. And I'm so the massive odds more like one in a 112.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

That was necessary.

SPEAKER_05 51:31

Yeah, no. Sorry, you were saying interrupted. Uh no, it's a joke there's sorry. Just an insurmountable odd. So I get the I get the looking at me like wanting that opportunity because I would probably feel the same way. I'd probably feel bitter towards someone having that. And like I I'm conscious of that, and I know some people feel like the opportunity was squandered or whatever. I I'm grateful that I had it, and you know, I I still am I still to this day, even with all the things that came with it, I'm grateful that I got to do it. Like I got to make that movie. Um all flaws aside, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Yeah, yeah. Um do you have anything, Greg? I mean, I by that it's honestly it's it's very inspiring. I want you to know that. I know I think I we like briefly introduced to the premiere, he met a thousand people probably that night. Uh but even talking to me now, that's that's honestly such a great perspective. Because like even from like knowing what you went through after that, um honestly few people have gone through that and everything, and more of the gratitude or like looking at the positive and sticking to that. I I think one of the best pieces of advice is I've gotten, I'm I'm a new at EMT, so especially working in the field, talking to paramedics and everything, um, you're very like raw. And I I'm I'm yes, I've freshly started in all this, but remembering like that expert I'm working with started at nothing as well. He had no idea what this medicine, whatever. And they also started at nothing. Like, yes, I'm getting there, but it it takes so much work to get to this point. And going through those pains of um filmmaking and you saying like this, it's all or nothing for me. You know, uh I I myself didn't exactly have that like trajectory where I always knew what I wanted to do. But having that and like going all in or having an experience like this, um it's on it's priceless. It really is. Talk to us about like what what's that next step? Learning from this, uh, I know you shared a little bit, it was like, alright, I'm gonna take a break, because then you also don't want to be labeled Spider-Man guy.

SPEAKER_04 53:41

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

And like the branding behind that and really venturing out, because as you said, that turned you into a filmmaker. What was that next step for filmmaker? Like, what what is your like aspirations, like all these like goals? What's that future look like for you?

SPEAKER_05 53:56

Well, right after the movie came out, I like huddled into a cave and I just was like, I was done. I was gonna be, I was gonna take a long break, and I'm lucky that I'm surrounded by people who they knew that I wasn't done yet, and they knew that I that I had more to more to say, and they just pulled me right back out of that cave and they're like, just make something else, like make something new. And so I I started making this like the complete opposite of of Lotus, like literally I just Justin went to the first screening for attempted murder. It's a horror comedy.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

And so Oh dude, I love horror.

SPEAKER_05 54:28

Yeah, it's it's a whole little horror comedy, and it's about a like a bumbling serial killer who can't kill any of his victims because he's incompetent. It it turned out like I I it was shorter, it was faster, it was comedic, it didn't take itself very seriously, it was colorful. Like I try to just literally look at Lotus and like what could I make that's just entirely different? Not because I never want to make a movie like Lotus again. I mean I you know, I don't want to make that again, but like a drama or whatever. I was like, let me just try the exact opposite and just stretch myself to that to to try to do something like that and challenge myself. And so I did that and I just brought a bunch of friends together. I was like, I'm not gonna do any crazy funding, I'm gonna like fund it myself for like a thousand bucks, use my resources, whatever, and just throw together this little short film in it. So it's like 39 minutes long. Um I had to stop myself from crossing the feature threshold because like I don't want to do it again for a while. Um, and it turned out really good. Like it did well at film festivals, and it it there's something about your own characters, and and and it's something that just didn't exist, it only existed in your mind, and you're able to put it out there, and it's just yours. Um that that was a different type of feeling than like taking a character that's kind of shared by millions of people. Now you get to do something that's only yours, and people are seeing it for the first time. And that that was a very gratifying thing. So I I want to chase that feeling again of like I want to make a character that I feel personally attached to the way I do about Spider-Man, but it's mine now. Um, I want to try to keep pursuing that. So I'm kind of still kind of going in the direction of horror comedy because I had a lot of fun with it. Yeah. Um, it's just like low pressure, low stakes, you know, it's just all like, I don't know, it just it doesn't feel like so heavy all the time. You know, so I'm pursuing more with the that attempted, it's called attempted murder.

SPEAKER_04 56:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 56:16

Um I'm pursuing more with that concept. I think that um when I do my next feature, I think it's gonna be that that concept. Okay. I'm gonna try to go the traditional route with getting funding, getting private funding and uh you know, 200k to 300k, like keep it kind of a little bit more than Spider-Man, but not go crazy yet. Um and just you know, get that feature off, get get another feature off the ground that's fun and entertaining because at like at the screening it was really fun when you'd get audience reactions to the to the jokes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

And one of those rules actually went viral because it came on my for you page, it was like, yeah, the audience reacting, and I gotta tell you, dude, that jump from Spider-Man Lotus to this, as far as how you are like you're saying you came out as a filmmaker, the sh your shots and your dialogue writing, bro. I was like, this is good. Thank you. This is good. Because yeah, because the concept of he just sucks, he's just an idiot, but he just wants to be a killer, but it's like he's and he's learning from this older guy, and then also just yeah, the shots, because I do love that style of it comes across as like very artsy fartsy, but it's I it's very calculated, you know what I mean? And so, like, yeah, dude, and then all the lighting too. So it yeah, you de you could definitely tell that you grew as a filmmaker.

SPEAKER_05 57:28

I learned a lot and I put it all into that, and like I'm I'm really happy with with that movie. And like I said, like that was really surprising for me because obviously Spider-Man put a lot of doubts in my mind of like my own potential and whether I'm actually good at any of this.

SPEAKER_01 57:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:41

Like it was it was really scary to make that because again, like it was all my friends and there was nobody professional attached. Right. So there's this fear of like I don't know how this is gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

And um you're saying at the horror comedy. Horror comedy, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because your brother, your brother's in it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:56

He plays one of the jocks. Yeah, yeah. But like, I was yeah, I was scared making it. And when I when I did the first test screening with like a like a bunch of friends at my house for my birthday in 2024, that was my first time showing anybody the film. Yeah. Um, and I was terrified because my friend was like he was like, You just just show them, just show them, it's not done yet. I don't know, I think they're gonna hate it. And you know, it's still a rough cut, so I was like, Oh, it's gonna go terribly. And when it ended, everybody really liked it. And it wasn't, I was like asked, I was like, please just tell me if it's bad. Like I need to know. Yeah. Because if I put this out there after Lotus, it's gonna get torn apart again, and I can't go through that again. And so I told people, please be blunt with me and honest. And yeah, I got really good, honest uh appraise for it, and that felt that felt like a good step for me in terms of like feeling put to like putting the pieces back together for myself again. Yeah, because I think there was a lot of brokenness following that, especially through 2024. Yeah, like it almost was worse for the subsequent years, like after the fallout, yeah, when it kind of died down more and I couldn't reflect uh properly. So I'm really glad I made attempted murder so it could, it could, it could be like that life raft for me that I needed, as opposed to I just do Spider-Man, and then I'm just wallowing in misery for two years. Yeah. You know, I'm just glad I got right back into it and I didn't I didn't just wallow in it. You know, I'm I think that was really important for me to do. Um, so anyway, with that said, like I I feel more confident now in like my ability to do things separate from Spider-Man and and do original projects and and things like that. So that's really the trajectory for me is more original and and that idea in particular, attempted murder, expanding those characters and doing something with that.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

Yeah. Now are you still on the uh on the fr uh festival circuit or are you done with that?

SPEAKER_05 59:42

We're done with that now. Because I put it up on YouTube now and so it's out there. And so now I'm just writing a lot. I think 2026, I'm just gonna be writing a lot of scripts.

SPEAKER_02 59:48

Yeah, what what what is your favorite part of the filmmaking process?

SPEAKER_05 59:52

The writing, the sh because do you also do your own cinematography, like shooting or your I I don't normally do, I've done cinematography for people before because last year I did a lot of like AD work. Okay. Um and I did a little bit of cinematography. Yeah. Um, but I think no, I loved I just love directing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I it's it there's something about it, and I think I've learned over time too. Like I used to wear every hat. Yeah. I'd jump around a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:15

And I would stretch myself thin.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:17

Now I've learned to like trust people to do their jobs and like I can communicate more efficiently with them and like trust I don't have to like run over to the camera department. Yeah. I can I can, you know, they're gonna do their thing. Yeah. I can I can keep myself steady, you know, when I'm directing. And I I direct like an editor, yeah. So I think honestly, I think the editing process might be my favorite part. Yeah, just because you're you're getting you get control and you just get to you get you get to form it, you know, like it it really takes shape in the edit. Yeah. You don't know what it's gonna look like really until you get in there and I edit with like temp music a lot, so I use sound to edit my stuff, and so you find like you'll I'll be looking I have to have the music first, and I'm big on movie scores. Yeah, I have like tons of movie scores that are.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

That's also something I could I could tell too, is um is from your uh most recent project is that yeah, your the music was sick. Because yeah, you definitely that's a big thing. We're actually working on a uh show that we actually wrapped a short film. It's like a stupid cowboy western, but um that's an another thing too that we were trying to figure out. We're like, all right, cool. There's so much that could take away or add on to a movie if the music is at you know, it adds or it takes away. Yeah. Um and so I think yeah, you you I you could definitely see that through what you're talking about. Um so the editing process, um and then how long does it usually take like for something like a 39-minute short film? Um from kind of like start to the finish project?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

Honestly, like I I was done. We uh we shot it in October 2023 and then I I released it. I mean uh it was done by like probably December 2024. So it only took like a year. Yeah. I just didn't put it online because I had to do the festival. So it took like a year for the whole thing from from pre-production to post, like a year, and then I was done. Yeah. So not too long. And like Lotus, I think was uh maybe a four, three or four year turnaround, which like for a feature is is pretty good, especially not having help really from anybody.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:12

Yeah, for sure, from start to finish. Um yeah, that's sick, dude. So then yeah, so then the future would be more kind of writing, just writing. Are you currently writing a script right now?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:22

Or yeah, I'm like 45 pages in. Um so I'm still working on that. Uh I I just the thing the thing that's hard is like just getting yourself to start writing. Yeah. Because once you're once you're in the zone, you know, you just can't stop. Yeah. But it's like that that staring at the blank page and not knowing where to start. Yeah. Or feeling like you you second guess your dialogue too much. Like, I I honestly like I'll I'll leave the script on the table and act out the scenes myself. Like I'll pretend like I'm the characters and do the acting, and then once I can get that, or I'll get in the shower and act out the lines or whatever and try to improv it. And then I get the dialogue and I can sit down and and start doing it, you know. You everyone's got their own little process. Like, I I just you just gotta force yourself to start writing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

Yeah, no, that's awesome, dude. I I love I love that. That's also a process too, because we're working on the yeah, that that short film that I was just saying earlier, but yeah, just that whole process going from start to finish. Because as an actor, you kind of just show up, you kind of do it, and then you leave. And then so kind of what you're saying with the other projects where you're so entrenched in this character, like for example, Spider-Man or for you know, attempted murder. That's a movie. Yeah, right. Yeah, attempted murder. Um, you're kind of in this kind of thing, and so kind of creating a world that's your own kind of world, and then it's it's gotta be so cool to just see that your brother's in it, your buddies, your friends are in it. I don't know who that old guy that played it is, but um he was he was cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:42

I found him on backstage as like a retired teacher.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:45

Yeah, I could tell I was like, he's giving backstage, love to see it, dude.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:48

Yeah, he he was great. Like he he was like a former film teacher who decided like in his retirement he's gonna become an actor. Yeah, yeah. And so that was really cool to like find him, and he's a really cool guy. He's a writer too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

Well, that's also something that's so important too on sets. Like, I will say, and I was I mean, Greg said this earlier, like what stood out for me too was also it's just kind of sick to put that freaking shocker thing on, dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:08

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:09

But also just I had so much fun on set, bro. It was so freaking fun. And we uh we did uh a shoot date that we they didn't make the film when we were in it in the studio and I was in the car and crap.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:18

Oh yeah, yeah, that was we were gonna dude the we were gonna do that like with VFX, we were gonna have a VFX Spider-Man and everything, because that would have been cool, but we just I don't know, I I had to cut it. Yeah, it was just like it was too much too much. We gotta get ready that more rain, more more raining. No, that it would have been a cool scene, but yeah, I just it was too much work and I didn't have the means to do it anymore. So I was like, ah, I just gotta cut it. But the shocker stuff was really fun to shoot. Yeah, and that was the most like storyboarded scene in the film, so I think it's the most exciting. The camera's actually moving, it's not just shot reverse shot like the rest of the movie. Yeah. Um yeah, it's a fun scene. I I I like it. It's cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

That was fun. And that was film that was shot pretty much after everything was pretty much filmed, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:05

Yeah, so we did all the drama first in Arkansas and New York, and then a lot of the additional photography was gonna be the action. Too expensive in LA anyway. Yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah. We shot, I mean, we shot in like an LA alleyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:18

Oh, really? Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:20

Just like some we didn't get a permit or anything, we just shot over there in a in a in an alleyway. I remember even where it just was.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

Yeah, it was literally just in an alleyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

He shot somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

Where luckily we didn't have to have a permit. But I mean, uh, you know, being a roommate and all, seeing like front row see, I helped him coordinate a little bit with like the acting crew and everything and setting things up.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:40

For our short film.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um something you were saying earlier, just a hundred percent seeing kind of a little bit of as you were saying, like watching the people react to the jokes and saying, like, oh, this is funny. It was very much like me watching Justin front row, like coordinating all this. And I remember Immobody came to me on the side and was like, dude. They're laughing. Like they think it's funny. And I remember I was like and I was like, yeah, dude, it's hilarious. But it was also cool seeing that re reaction of like being reassured, like, yeah, dude, like it works. Okay, good. That humor. Because I don't I don't know what that's like. Like there's been a common theme so far in our podcast here of like filmmaking and that art creating. I don't know what it's like of writing it and just hoping it works. And like hoping this reaction or like does this actually work? Or that self-doubt. And I think just seeing the amount of work that goes into something like behind the scenes. And I I played a little part in it. I'd never done anything like that. It was more I remember I told him, like, this is clearly so important to you. I I want to play any kind of part I can just to help you along the ride. Like this is clearly so important to you. I want to help in any kind of progressional like way I can. And um just seeing the amount of like care and also the details, the work behind the scenes, between the actors. It's it's incredible. You know, just I'm I'm sure he'll send it to you. It's it's a very, very rough cut. I'm sure as you're very used to.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:08

No, yeah, I'm used to it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

But um I was very proud of him. I I think it turned out really well. He completely funded the film himself.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

Um $3.99 it costs to do it all.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

Yeah, yeah, and I crowdfunded it. I just stood on uh a freeway entrance and I was like, do we know?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:28

Six-figure budget this time or no?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

I make one appearance because someone called out one line. No, no, no, no, no. It was labeled very well though, I must say.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

No, Greg killed it, bro. Fricking Greg. Greg's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:40

You're a future actor? No. He gets that a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

Think you could? Honestly, Greg has a comedic good comedic sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

I alright. Yeah, I love comedy. I I absolutely love comedy. But I'm not I'm not one for cameras, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

I like behind the scenes. Meanwhile, there's like four cameras on.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

Yeah, I think I can write comedy, maybe, you know. I have. I've helped Justin write a few jokes.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

He has actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:03

I actually spoke with uh a guy, we had like a two-hour conversation, and he was a writer for Nicki Glazer. Oh. And he was telling me about the whole process of uh that Kill Tony bit she had. Uh I'm saying not Kill Tony, the roast of Tom Brady. Yeah, yeah. And like hearing like all these details, it was so fascinating, and I loved that conversation. Definitely like walked away the new perspective of just like the art of writing.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:27

But uh yeah, I'm I'm a little bit more behind the scenes as I'm in front of cameras. Yeah. That's that's more for Justin and everything.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:33

No, but what you said, I mean, people really underestimate what goes into just you see it on screen, of course, like you see the results, but what goes on behind the camera, the conversations that you have between tapes, you know, like the the decisions you have to make. Like on I think that's my favorite part actually about filmmaking is like when you run into a barrier and you're on a time crunch and you need to think of a solution quick.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:54

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

Especially when you're outside, you're losing daylight, bro. The amount of because there's so much you can do when it comes to planning. But when you're there, there's always something wrong. Someone's like, the actor forgot this, or well shoot, we forgot this and all, especially when you're very much your own. You have like one, or maybe two PAs, that's it. So yeah, that so you like that then. I like I love the pressure.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:15

Like I that's why I actually like being an assistant director. Yeah. Um, a lot of people you know hate it because it's you're you're stressed out all the time. Yeah. I actually like the stress. Yeah. Like I like encountering the problem and then working with people to like quickly come up with what is like the best compromise we can come up with without losing you know what's already here. Like, what shots can we combine, what can we cut, what can we, you know, replace or whatever, what line can we lose, like any sort of kind of problem solving you can come up with. I I I love that aspect so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Well, that's a good for a director because the guy the directors that aren't good at that, they're they turn into the yelling type.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:49

Yeah, and they get stressed out, dude. I did a vertical one time, and literally, like before shooting, you're he's all nice, nice guy. About two hours in, he like freaks out. And there's no reason to be freaked out. And so he's yelling at everybody, and it's just like, bro, you yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:04

So yeah, that is a very nice thing that you're able to like you have an affinity towards that kind of because your job is to set the tone of your everybody working under you and working for you, you know, like you're responsible for their the work is going to reflect the the work ethic on set and the attitude on set. Yeah. You know, the your DP and your gaffers and grips, they're not gonna work as hard if they're they're they just wanna leave their in and out. Yes, you know, you want to create uh a desire to be there. Everybody got in this industry for the most part because they were passionate about film. I've met a lot of people who have lost that passion over time because there's so many sets that are so uh you know just diminishing, yeah. And and you just feel beaten down by by you know working for so long and and working for abusive people and people who are just bitter, and that bitterness kind of you know rubs off on everybody else. So I I try to be that you know, that that really that positive presence on set because then you get really good work out of that, and then the 12 hours fly right by.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:02

Well, and that's the thing too. It's like you'll put and this is for anything. I mean, me and Greg will talk about this where it's like it's hard for a lot of people, and I guess it's really just how much can we get without spending the most amount of money or time, which is bro, if you invest into the people under you, meaning that you're treating them with respect, you're making sure that they're taken care of. Like, bro, that was one of the first things going into like when we were producing our thing, which was like, I want to make sure these actors are taken care of, we're shooting in a way where it makes sense, so they're not just waiting around. Once they're done, we're having to pay them all this stuff. Part of it I know it's because I'm also an actor, and so I know what it's like to not be taken care of. But then two, it's just like to me, I'm like, look, if you take care of your people, whether it's actors or your crew, they're also gonna give you a better product. So it's like a freaking win-win thing. So it it it it is kind of fascinating that that's not like really a more common thing. But um wrapping things up, I did want to ask you, so with all this experience, all this kind of uh things that you experienced in the past, what's like some things that you would say um to someone that might be watching who's like, hey man, I I'm thinking about doing this. Like, what's some advice that you've kind of gained along the way?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:11

I think it's gotta be just to stick to what what what what is the stick to what you think is good and what you want to pursue and what you're passionate about. Yeah. Because I've met a lot of people over the past couple years as I've gotten more in the in the filmmaking scene. People want to create what they think other people want to see. Yeah. And you kind of destroy yourself doing that. Yeah. Um you ha you have to stick to your impulse and your gut. And um you can't make things to cater to other people because then you're constantly changing your film and re-editing it, and you're losing what the what the purpose of the script was and what you what the intentions that you shot it with. Um I've seen a lot of people just entirely restructure and re-edit their entire thing because they heard an opinion over here, an opinion over here, people aren't gonna like this part of it, you know. You just have to make what what your impulse tells you to make, and because you're gonna lose your passion. And the the most important thing is to not lose your passion.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:04

And if you get sucked into what everybody in the industry gets sucked into, which is like trying to get validated for your work, and of course I know that having released something that was torn apart so hard, like you really want to be accepted and you really want to be loved for your work, but you have to, you have to just shake that off because it is a never-ending cycle of you cannot please everybody, and people are always gonna have opinions about your work, and you just have to create what you love, and that passion will sustain you because I've gotten like I've felt the temptation of like, you know, f what you know, fuck what I want, yeah, what I want to see. Like they want to see it. Yeah. You gotta suppress that, you gotta stick to yourself. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Dude, that's freaking that's awesome. Greg, is there anything you wanted to add?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:48

Oh, I I think that's perfect. Yeah, I think that was great. Well said. Uh go ahead and um plug whatever you're doing, social media.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:57

Okay. Well, I've just released attempted murder on YouTube. Um, you can watch it on GJ Canop. My Instagram is Gavin Canop, um, my TikTok's Gavin Canop, and I don't have a Twitter account, and I won't. Nice, dude. There you go. To Cesspool over there. Yeah. Um but Gavin Canop on everything. K-O-N-O-P. Nobody knows how to pronounce that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

Yeah, honestly, yeah, and you I always say that they probably do it because they second guess it's like, oh, it's probably not, so I'll go with Knape or something. Canape.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:23

What's the worst? What's the worst uh so many? I've seen I've heard I think Knope. I'm like that's disrespectful. Gavin Konope.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:33

Thank God that's not like your first because, like, yeah, that'd be like Starbucks and Kanope. Uh latte for Conope.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:39

You're like Oh, yeah, it's Rapid Starbucks. Yeah, mess that one up. Yeah, that'd be good.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:45

Anyway. Alright, well, guys, thank you so much for tuning in, and we will see you guys next time.