Rare Wave
Where we ride only the rarest of waves.
Rare Wave
The Dr. Carl Hargrove Interview
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The boys sit down with Dr Carl Hargrove (aka Justin's dad) and talk about football, dating, and spiritual things.
Welcome to Greg Wave. We ride only the Reddit of Waves. I'm your host, Justin Hargrove, and today we have a very special guest. And it is a Father's Day episode. But before we do, I want to welcome my co-host who's not a father. Greg Nealy, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. Come on, give me some damn for me. All right. There we go. Just sit here for a second. Yeah, just sit here for a second. Thanks, dude. It has a hole in it. I didn't realize, but it's fine. Well, now now we now I just can't stop staring at the It's a Father's Day episode. It is Father's Day. Nice. Happy Father's Day. You're not a father.
SPEAKER_03No. No. Not yet. Keywords yet. Come on, Science. You know what I'm saying? Lady down the line. Ladies are single. Okay. Anyway. I should have my dad on too. You should. Just the four. I know.
SPEAKER_02But we only have three chairs though, so it's like we gotta do it by the way. I could stand. That's true. Yeah, or you can stand. I'll sit over there. No, this is my chair. That's my chair.
SPEAKER_03Well, perfect, dude.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, alright. Well, alright, move on. All right. Okay. Alright, so Chad GBT wrote this intro because I didn't write one. So bear with me, alright, everybody. It is my privilege to introduce our guest. Our guest serves as an elder and pastor at Grace Community Church and directs Grace Advance and Ministry. I'm just gonna skip. He has faithfully served the Lord and his church both locally and internationally. His commitment to teaching God's word and encouraging church leaders has made a lasting impact on countless lives. He and his wife Joanna have five kids, one that they really care about, and together they have demonstrated a lifelong commitment. Anyway, and he has a new book uh that's out now called A Thankful Journey. Please welcome uh Pastor Dr. Carl Hargrove and my debt. Anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's stay in it. Alright. Alright. Is this your first podcast? Have you ever done a podcast?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have. Oh.
SPEAKER_02Well, that was my lead too.
SPEAKER_01I'm just curious. Well, it's the first one for this podcast.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01The first of Yeah, the first. So this is special.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So how long have you been doing this?
SPEAKER_02Uh I don't know. Uh three months. Three months?
SPEAKER_03It's been about three months. Three months?
SPEAKER_01How often do you do it?
SPEAKER_03So it kind of depends. Normally we'll do like several like together, just to get rid of it. It's uh releasing like one a week, I believe, right now.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that's cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, not much of an audience yet.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's not true. I think we I think we, you know, I think we're we're growing, you know what I'm saying? And uh we're we're building. Sure. Like both.
SPEAKER_01So like how long does it last?
SPEAKER_03Um typically about an hour. 40 minutes to an hour.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01So a lot to talk about here.
SPEAKER_02Lots of, and I got questions, so I prepared unlike my uh my intro. So yeah, yeah, yeah. And you got the tea and everything, so I definitely need it.
SPEAKER_01Like my you can hear it in my voice. It's like um I just got back from New Zealand on Friday, was there teaching in a conference, and it's winter there. So I think maybe that threw me off a little bit. Plus, I think the other thing, yeah, I was eating some things I normally don't eat, you know, I'm pretty strict. And they have these pretty cool, what they call them biscuits there, we call them cookies. Called Anzac.
SPEAKER_03Oh, gosh.
SPEAKER_01And Anzac stands for the Australian New Zealand Armed Corps, and so these cookies have a pretty interesting history. Yeah. They go back to 1950, they made the cookies and they send them to the soldiers, and they would put eggs in them because they didn't want them to spoil. And um, so they're really, really good. And I just kept eating them and eating them and eating them. Yeah, yeah. I would be talking to someone, and they're like so big, and you just pop one in, you talk to them and pop another one in. So then everyone thought, wow, and I even looked up the history behind it. Um so then the the ladies gave me like this huge like tub of them, too. So now question were you eating them while you were preaching? Hold on two minutes. Yeah, I need some Anzac strength here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's cool. It's a great time. Beautiful. New Zealand is gorgeous. Wow. It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_03I gotta travel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, come on. Let's get with it.
SPEAKER_02Well, you've been to Ireland, you went to Ireland.
SPEAKER_03Yes, we went to Northern Ireland, Andrew Curry's Church. Oh, really? Now, STM, two years in a row.
SPEAKER_01Good for you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that was awesome. That was back in like 20 years.
SPEAKER_01Like what in the Andrews now in Dallas. I mean, from Northern Ireland to Dallas. Wow, what a transition. Yeah. So what's happening? Like, what were you doing in his SDM?
SPEAKER_03So we did a lot of uh evangelistic work um specifically. It was a high school STM. Okay. One of the actually the only high school STM at the time. We went uh a lot of just evangelism throughout the schools, throughout the neighborhood. Sure. Um they had a great uh high school group there. The church was only like 150 people, but it was very, very young. Yeah. So we honestly really just hopped right in. Okay, I'm glad you had a great time, met all the founders of the church there. It was uh it was a special time for sure. Sure. Yeah, I remember it for a long time.
SPEAKER_02Very good. That's that's great. Third world country. Anyway, um, so uh let's see, let's get into my questions, shall we? Okay, let's do it. So, all right, so Carhart Grove.
SPEAKER_01Uh what is the question?
SPEAKER_02It's weird asking questions I really knew the answer to. No, I no, I wrote them about 10 minutes ago. Alright. Okay. So uh Dad, where did you grow up?
SPEAKER_01When I grew up, I grew up in Orlando, Florida. Uh it's called the City Beautiful, Central Florida. Okay. And um so Orlando's beautiful, it's grown so much. I I'll never forget when Disney World came to Orlando and it just expanded and expanded, and it and it still expands today, you know, like 40 years later.
SPEAKER_02Wait, so you were around when it it first came?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because Disney came and what was I don't know, was that um I'm thinking it had to be late 70s, maybe. Okay. Yeah, late 70s.
SPEAKER_02And um And this is Disney World, not Disneyland. Yeah, Disney World. There's a big difference, everybody.
SPEAKER_01All right, all my Disney adults. Yeah, all your Disneyland. You have to go to Disney World. It's a reason it's called World and not Land. Uh like the I worked there, it was one of my first jobs too at Disney World. And I never forget when I came to California, I thought, wow, let's go to Disneyland. And I pulled into Disneyland and I thought, okay, like, where is the rest of it? It's like this can't be it, right? Yeah, yeah. Because Disney World is, I mean, it's it's an unbelievable place.
SPEAKER_02Um of the first things I remember about Disney World is that you would always say that Disneyland could fit into the parking lot of Disney World.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's just yeah, like when you come into Disney World, uh, and they call you know our Magic Kingdom. I mean, it's a drive. I mean, it's just a beautiful drive that's taking through this area just to get to the theme park itself. And plus, you know, you have Animal Kingdom there, Epcot, which we loved, is there. So it's it's a fun place.
SPEAKER_02So that was that your first job? No, your first stop was McDonald's.
SPEAKER_01I think first stop was McDonald's. Yeah. And it was one of the busiest McDonald's in the world because it was located on what's called it on International Drive. That's like a tourist hub. Oh. And it was on one of the busiest corners. So it was constant, constant, constant. That was fun back in the day. I think my minimum wage back then uh like 70 cents or something. It wasn't far away from it. I'll never forget. I know at one point in time I did make 275. Dollars? Uh-huh. And then it was three. I remember like, wow, I think I remember making $4.50. And I thought, wow, $4.50 an hour. But this was also back when gas was also like a gun. Yeah, gas was like $59. $59 a gallon. And speaking of dads, I remember with my dad once we were driving, he thought, I can't believe this, man. Gas is gonna be more than a dollar a gallon.
unknownOh my god.
SPEAKER_01Because we saw it growing up. Like, I who can pay a dollar a gallon for gas?
SPEAKER_02I still ask that question. Eight dollars. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so Florida. Florida, have you heard have you heard about this? Like, Florida gets a bad rep now, kinda. What's that? What's that? I don't know. I don't know. It's this weird thing where it's like people I guess it's because Florida's a kind of like a not lone star state, that's Texas, but it's like very much like we can, you know, we can have fun, we can do whatever you want. Especially maybe since COVID that was a thing.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, Florida, here's the bottom line. I mean, people are moving there by the just the truckloads, literally.
SPEAKER_03No income tax.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no income tax. Um there's a lot of freedom, there's sensibility there, crime is lower. Um so why not? Yeah, it's Florida. Uh-huh. So it's a great place. But California is unique, you know. I I still love California. Yeah. Um beautiful.
SPEAKER_03I mean the weather right now is Oh, yeah, right. It's incredible. It's like 79 to like 83.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the Proflies. This is great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And there's no humidity like that. Because you're up playing football. I don't understand how you did anything outside from one of the biggest. Oh, yeah, humidity.
SPEAKER_01Because football is big in Florida. So I played high school ball and went off to play college ball. But I would never forget going back to Florida one time after being in California for like three years. Yeah. And then landed in the airport, and you walk out, and you're like, wow. Like in July and August. You say, I don't, I had forgotten how this felt. And um, and it was just crazy to me that I used to practice in this stuff and just go playing, and it was, you know, 95 degrees and 90% humidity.
SPEAKER_02And that's with pads on and it's heavy. Like, because I remember the one year I played, it was like near like El Segalo. So it was near the beach, but I still had pads on and I was just going like I hate it. I hate everything. Yeah. So alright, so play football. Um, what about like your family life? Because Dad have a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, family life. Um, you know, my well, your grandmother, um, she died when I was like seven. Yeah, cancer. So I was raised by my dad, really. And he was a veteran. And um and but I'm the youngest of eight kids. Wow. Yeah. You don't hear that much anymore. Um, but the n the one closest to me had already gotten married and gone off to the Philippines with her husband. Pretty young, she got married, and the others were off in college or somewhere else, so it was kind of for the most part, me and my dad. Yeah. Um together. But I had great memories with him. Um my dad was he was a disabled vet. So he eventually l lost the use of his legs from the waist down. But he was still active. Like he would drive, there was a control for the car to to handle the brake and the gas. And um there was a way he could get his wheelchair out, or somebody would be with him to get his wheelchair out. And we have great memories, like going over to the beach. We'd go over to Daytona Beach, about 45 minutes away, and that was novel because you could drive on the beach in Daytona, and uh we'd stay, I'll never forget this place. We would stay at the Hawaiian Inn. Yeah, I still like as if it was yesterday staying there with him.
SPEAKER_02The Hawaiian was it like Hawaiian themed? Yeah, it was a Hawaiian themed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, it was that sort of thing, and that was fun growing up with dad and and seeing dad at my football games in a certain section of his wheelchair over there. And of course, like dads like think you're much better than what you are, yeah. Um, sometimes. And I remember one time it's like, I can't believe you made more tackles than that, right? And I was like, Dad, I wasn't even in the game at that point. I was keeping the bench for him. What are you talking about? So I had a you know, it was fun being with him.
SPEAKER_02And you say, because you always say, too, like your house was kind of the hub for like the neighborhood kids together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that was the other thing. The ha uh my buddies would come over, we'd hang out, yeah, uh, we'd just fix a bunch of food. Um, because my dad was a vet, we'd go to what's called the commissary, or that's where on base and you go shop there, and we get these huge pizzas like that big, and especially pepperoni.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And we cut up, we get another block of pepperoni and cut it up, and it'd just be covered in pepperoni, and we'd fix the pizzas and have guys over a bunch of ruffled potato chips. And uh and guys would just come over and play. And I I'd never forget I had a few little like it was called Atari, I think was the game. And it was something called Pung. I think that was the name of it. And it was like like wow, the first like kind of video game. Yeah. And all it was, well like on the screen, it had these two um, they were supposed to be like tennis paddles, but they were just straight lines, and the ball would come and it bounce, and you'd hit it, and it bounced back, and you could kind of spin it a little bit, and that's all you did. It's bouncing back and forth on the TV screen. We thought that was the coolest thing. Yeah. Um, and man, how things are now Call of Duty GTA. Yeah, Call of Duty. Yeah, I saw some trailer for something. I was looking at something else on YouTube the other day, and I saw a trailer. I thought, is that real? No, that's not. That's just some game. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, it's wild.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's not even clear. The next new thing is that those virtual reality you won't be able to differentiate things because it's gonna be so real, you're gonna just rather be in that life.
SPEAKER_01Oh, totally, that whole life. Yeah. I did that once with some buddies. We went and like the virtual reality thing? Yeah, yeah. And they there were some times when you just thought the spatial sort of contrast and and sits was like, oh. I I feel like I'm above the earth right now. Yeah. But you know you weren't.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you know, and that you don't look like it too. You ever seen those videos of people like they play the game and other things, and they just look like they're bumping in each other.
SPEAKER_03When I did it, I was walking on this like small strip, like on the top of New York City. Right, exactly. And then I'm half like petrified. And it's like, no, no, no, I'm in my friend's bedroom, it's fine. I was like ready to just like so real. Yeah, I've experienced that before.
SPEAKER_01Because it was one time they took us up in this elevator, supposedly, to get on a spacecraft, and you're looking back down at the earth. Oh, and it's so you have to walk across it, and I'm like, wow, I know I'm in this little room. Uh-huh. It's like 20 by 30, maybe, but it sure doesn't feel that way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, anyway. It's crazy. So, football, and then um, because that was like that was the goal, right? Just to continue playing football as far as career, or what or no? The goal was military.
SPEAKER_01No, the career was military. So I was in in high school and junior ROTC, so I wanted to be in the military. That's what I wanted to do. Uh, football was fun, and football was gonna pay for school. Um, and I just said to my dad, like, uh, don't worry about me. I'll just play ball and they'll take care of school. And they did. Um, but I wanted the military, so I went when I was in college, I was at the University of Cincinnati. Um, I was an ROTC there, preparing for the military. Um, but God had a different plan for my life. He closed that door pretty convincingly, and that's when I got saved when I was at UC and had another desire in my heart, although I still was trying to pursue the military that it became clear like God just closed the door. I couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_02Was it the same injury for football or was it something else?
SPEAKER_01What's that?
SPEAKER_02Was it the same injury for football or was it?
SPEAKER_01No, no. This then what happened, the the door for the military got closed, and that was a sickness that I'd had since I was like a teen, but I had a medication for it, and uh so other people in the military have it, but they it went for like a whole year to this board to determine if they still let me in. Yeah. And they said no. And I thought, wow, my life was that rocked me. I thought I've been wanting to do this since I was like this.
SPEAKER_02And you're at this point, what, 20s, 90s?
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm at that point I'm 20. Okay. Because I just got saved at 20, and then that door closed, and I thought, what am I gonna do? So I thought, okay, no problem.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What I'll do, play a B, I'll play football, play for five years, make some investments. I was studying economics in school, so I'll make some investments, go out and live life, you know. Well, that didn't work out. Because then my the week before a season started, I blew out my knee.
SPEAKER_02This is why you're just junior?
SPEAKER_01So now I'm a um going into no, this is going into the senior year.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow. So you've been playing three years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I blew out my knee and um ACL MCL. So it was like, no, that's the end of it. And then it was like, okay, Lord, what are you trying to tell me? Right, right. And then that was that more of that desire in my heart to be a a minister, a preacher. Yeah. But I didn't know what that meant. So I graduated, went back to Florida, got connected with the church, and that thing led to another. I found out about the master's seminary out here and about John MacArthur's ministry, and lo and behold, that's what happened. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Now, did you know anybody that grew up, because I feel like I know a lot of people that are pastors or are in seminary, but did you know anybody that had gone that route? Because you grew up religious, but it wasn't like, you know.
SPEAKER_01No, not really. You know, I had an uncle who later in life, he was in the military too, he was in the Air Force. Yeah. And later, like this is after kids and everything, and his he retired, he felt a calling. Yeah. But nobody then had been like in their twenties saying, This is what I want to do. I didn't know anyone.
SPEAKER_02And did your was your dad around when you decided to pursue that? Uh he was. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then but before I came to seminary, he w he passed away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was a sad day. Yeah. But he knew that my life had changed. Um, he saw that I was different. Um and but he never got to see me, so to go and do it. He did hear me preach a couple times. Okay. And there was one occasion, I'll never forget it. Like, because he was in the wheelchair.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was preaching in a church, and it was pretty old church, and there was no wheelchair access, you know, and they just had these big stairs that lead you up to the church. Yeah. And so he there was no one to kind of help him get in there. And so I'll never forget it. What he did is he drove on the side of the church, and the windows are open because it was like an older church, no AC. In Florida, right? Yeah, in Florida, right. The windows are open, and he listened to me preach. Oh, wow. From you know, just from his car, almost like driving church, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Just hanging out, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Just hanging out. Yeah, and and God blessed me with the voice where he could hear me. Right. And you had the same voice at like 20 something. Yeah, that's right. I had the same voice. And it was like, okay, uh, maybe you should be a preacher. Yeah. Although preaching is definitely more than voice. Yeah. Oh, the Whitfield surely had a voice.
SPEAKER_02Like I saw that movie by him. Yeah. Pretty amazing. Man, so so then that happened. And then like, was that was that um just trying to think of like, okay, so then you go to LA. How did you how did you hear about the seminary? The master seminary.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was in a church and I was headed to another seminary connected to the church that I was involved in. And um, someone in that church said, Hey, MacArthur's starting a seminary. You should think about it. I said, No, I'm headed to this other place. I already have connections there. Yeah. The pastor of the church I was attending, he was a graduate there. It'll be it'll work work out well for me. Yeah. And then this again, like Providence unfolded, providence that is how God controls the details. Um, I heard MacArthur on the radio, but I didn't know it was him. Yeah. I heard him, I thought, well, who is this guy? I kind of like him. It's like all Bible. And this is 80s with the right. Yeah, this is eighties, because I graduated um in eighty in eighty-six. Yeah. So I'm hearing MacArthur on the radio, and I didn't know who it was initially. Then eventually I found out who it was. Yeah. Um, and then I found out that he was coming to the Orlando area, and I met him there, and he kind of was direct to the point, it was like, No, don't go to that other place. Yeah. He said, Come west, young man. And he said, just send us your stuff, your information, we'll take care of you. Wow. And that's what he did.
SPEAKER_02Wait, so you didn't have to pay for some of the no, no.
SPEAKER_01I got a full ride for everything.
SPEAKER_02Wow, that's awesome. I did not know that. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I got a full ride. He just awesome. He just said, Send us the information. And that's what I did.
SPEAKER_02Do you remember what you said? Was it like John MacArthur wants me? Give me free scholarship.
SPEAKER_01So I just wrote up my application. Yeah. I don't even know if I said I met him. Maybe I said I met John MacArthur here.
SPEAKER_02Wait, but this is before email, so you have to like write or type things out.
SPEAKER_01Oh, sure. It's back in the day. Then you had to like mail it. We had to mail it in, guys. You remember you know what that's like? Like mailing stuff. That's yeah, that's mailing stuff.
SPEAKER_03Ever mailed anything ever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, even with me right now, it's like someone said you can write a check. I'm like, write a check. I would be like, right? Like, right?
SPEAKER_02What does it mean to write a check? Yeah. So this year is 1989, right? No, 19, no, no.
SPEAKER_01No. So yeah, 89 is when I come to California. Yeah. I come to California in 89.
SPEAKER_03So that really was just a calling. Oh, sure. That conversation. No, please come. Full ride, we want you.
SPEAKER_01Full ride, we want you here. And he said, no, don't go to that other place. Come out here.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_02But the seminary at this point was probably what, like two ago? Oh, it was three years old.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so it was more like recruiting, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So he saw he saw the potential. He's recruiting. Yeah, he was like we need black guys. Come on.
SPEAKER_01He's like, yeah, come on out. Because I told him about my background. I think he said, hey, I think you're a leader. We need you. Come on out. Yeah. So I did. And then initially I wasn't going to even be at Grace Church. Yeah. Because I was thinking, oh, it's too big, you know, this place, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_02It was, and it was probably more of a like, was it a culture shock coming out to LA and going to a very traditional white church?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was. Now the church I was attending before I came out, interesting enough, was predominantly white in Orlando.
SPEAKER_02What was it?
SPEAKER_01The one I was in in Cincinnati wasn't. Okay. Um, and the one that I grew up in, I didn't go back there. I visited every once in a while. Yeah. But I didn't go back there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So more of the shock was Californians. Really? I mean, because you're coming from Florida, South, Southern ways, uh, or Ohio, Midwest kind of ways about people, then California was just like, wow, people are standoffish, at least that's how it was. I'll never forget. Like, I would be in like a market somewhere, and you'd pass someone in the aisle. And I was so used to, like in Orlando, you know, you kind of smile at the person, you kind of look over and just smile at them. And at times I would do that, and people were looking at me like, oh, he's a he's a weirdo. Is that smiling about you? Domer? What? Right. Get the kids close to you, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Were people doing the the little chihuahuas in the bag back then or not? No, not back then.
SPEAKER_01They had lost their mind then.
SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the little dogs perfectly groomed in the butt you know, I I because I travel a lot and it reminds me how there was this episode, and was it during COVID? I forget when it was, where everybody had their um their pet, their comfort pet. Yeah. So people travel with snakes and birds and and miniature dogs. It was a show.
SPEAKER_02Huh? It was a show, or you're saying that. No, like travel. Oh, I see, I see.
SPEAKER_01So, you know, like, and I think people grew out of that. It was a fad. Yeah. Because you get on a plane and you're like, why is this person like a zoo in there? No, it was. It's like LA Zoo on on American Africa.
SPEAKER_02This is my comfort lizard. You're like, a comfort lizard? Yeah, yeah. What? Yeah, meanwhile, it's like you need to be comforted from that person because they look weird anywhere in America. Yeah, that's very interesting.
SPEAKER_01That's California for you.
SPEAKER_02But this is okay, so 1989, you're at Grace Church, which is John McCarthy's church, really big church. And then this is where you get like how how long did it take for you to actually become like a pastor at Grace before?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know what? It happened pretty quickly. Because what happened was in I got involved with the singles ministry, the pastor there, he was gonna take a church, I didn't know it, in Arizona. Yeah. And like the first part of 1990, he came to me and said, Hey, I'm moving on. I'm gonna head to Arizona, and I was like, Okay, great. Well, I'm glad you you got a great opportunity. He said, I already talked to the elders, you're gonna take over. Wow. I was like, What? And seminary.
SPEAKER_02And had he heard you preach before?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. He heard me preach and he knew I had a background, and I guess he thought I could do it, but I did. Yeah. So for those years until ninety-three, when I graduated, I was one of the kind of slash pastors, interns. Yeah. But I was pastoring in that group. Right. And how big was this group? Because it I mean Oh, I mean at that point, that group was 125, I guess, or so. Hundred or so.
SPEAKER_02So this is a singles group, and then in this group there was a single lady, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. There was a single lady. Her name is Joanna. And I had an infamous meeting with her on one of my first jobs. This is a funny story. First jobs at Grace Church, I was working what's called a tape check. There's another throwback. What's a tape? Cassette tape. Cassette tape.
SPEAKER_02Like things to hold together? No, I'm just gonna.
SPEAKER_01I know, like gorilla tape, right? Yeah, yeah. No, so I was working in there and it was like a library. People could come in and say, um, yeah, I'm looking for this tape or this series, and you give it to them. And so Joanna came in and she was looking for this tape series called Male and Female Differences. It was like two parts. And I said, Oh man, this is like pretty popular. And I then I said, Terry, I don't understand why it's so popular. And I said, Does everybody know the differences between men and women? And like, do you really need two tape series to figure this out? And she kind of looked at me like, oh boy, this guy thinks he knows everything.
SPEAKER_02Big old ex-football player talking about.
SPEAKER_01Back then I was much bigger too because I hadn't lost a lot of my size. Yeah. And so I said I saw the look on her face, so I said, Oh, okay, okay, wait, wait a minute. The reason I said it is I have six sisters. Right. And a brother, but I have six sisters, so trust me. Yeah, yeah. I I tried to clean it up a little bit. Yeah, yeah. I know that there are differences, and she still was like, okay, thank you. And I can imagine mom doing that. Yeah, yeah, thank you very much. And she went out. And of course, shortly after that, I I see her in the singles group, and shortly after that, guess who's introduced as a new pastor? Me. And she's in that singles group. Yeah. Yeah, Mr. Know It All. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is now the singles pastor. For that group, it was like an age group 28 to 40.
SPEAKER_0228 to 40, yeah. Hey, that's cool.
SPEAKER_03Single pastor for single. Yeah, there we go.
SPEAKER_02And did you ever teach a series on men and female differences? This is inquired by the tape that uh the lady checked out two years ago.
SPEAKER_01Here's the series male and female differences. Your Bible to Leviticus. Yeah, oh here, here's the here's the difference. There are differences. Okay, now let's move on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So but so there was uh so then what was all right, so from meeting mom to going out on your first date, which even that is like a contest. It's not really that's a debate. Yeah, that's a debate between you guys of what if it was the first date for years.
SPEAKER_01Where was there initial attraction or was it more of like No, it was because she was just in the ministry, working in the ministry. Yeah, I was very focused on seminary. Yeah, I just wanted to finish seminary. Let me do this. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I don't relationships right now. Let me use my singleness so I can focus. That's Greg right now, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Except it's not voluntary. I'm just kidding. It's voluntary, right? It's voluntary. That's what he told me. Anyway.
SPEAKER_01So that's what I did. So there wasn't, and then there was we we spent more time together. So I it'd be two over two years before I kind of looked at her and thought, oh, maybe so.
SPEAKER_02So more time as in like Bible studies, like sitting together at church, or like was it more of you would because were you part of the same Bible study or were you No, I wasn't, because she was in one Bible study in Glendale. Okay.
SPEAKER_01But I would go visit all the Bible studies as the pastor.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I see, I see.
SPEAKER_01And I would see her there, and we'd have m leadership meetings, and I'd see her there. Would you circle back to the Glendale Bible study? I know it's my weekly Pasadena, but Glendale, I'm coming back. Coming back to Glendale. Yeah, yeah. And then we would, you know, every year we would go up to Mammoth and go skiing, which is great. I love that. I miss that. Man, I wish I could do it some more, but yeah. I don't think my knee's gonna let me.
SPEAKER_02But there was one, there's one story that's pretty crazy, and that's probably helped your, you know, your um, you know, your your chances with mom, was uh when that guy pulled up at the Bible study, right?
SPEAKER_01And he liked there was a guy who uh created some problems in a ministry because it was like this relationship drama that was going on. He was a regular? Oh yeah. And he was seeing someone and then she was seeing someone else, and he got upset, and he showed up uh one Sunday in the group and was trying to disturb things. Oh so I went out and another got out went out and kind of laid hands on him and uh and and held him and then he got arrested. Oh wow and then we actually had to go before a judge to get a restraining order. Because you want people to come to church, obviously, right? But you don't want them to come and disturb.
SPEAKER_02Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_01And so he gave the restraining order. Yeah. So he couldn't come to church any of our Bible studies.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01So it just so happened, um, you know, I'm visiting the Glendale study, because he used to attend that study. Yeah. And so I thought, let me make sure everything's okay. Right. And he showed up, and he showed up with his restraining order, and then he pulled out a like a blade. He was like, hey, you guys want blood, I'll give you blood. Oh my gosh. So I wasn't sure if he meant his own. Like he's gonna harm himself or he's gonna harm someone else. So I wasn't gonna wait.
SPEAKER_02That sounds like the latter, honestly. Yeah. Like yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I wasn't gonna wait for him to figure to figure it out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so I just went up to him and you know, laid hands on one again.
SPEAKER_02You remember what moves you made? Wait, I do. I do. Was it was it was it the right hook? Yeah. Chris Brown combo. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01Van Dam, Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee combination.
SPEAKER_02So that Jackie Chan, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I held him down and I didn't I didn't know it, but in that tussle, uh, ended up cutting the tendons in my thumb. Oh, yeah. And I was bleeding, I didn't even know it. And I realized I looked up, I thought, wow, where's the blood coming from? Oh, it's coming from me. Oi. And then guess what? Then the sheriff showed up, and I'm holding him on the ground. Yeah. And they show up, and they the restraining order's right there. Uh and they were like, Well, this guy doesn't have it. He's something's nice. And then they took him off.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Oh my god. And mom was watching the entire thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, then the women, the women went, I said, hey, we gals out of here. Yeah. And there was another interesting development. Because um, there were some guys who went in with the women as well. I was like, oh, one or two of you could have stayed.
SPEAKER_02Let's get back. No, I'm not talking about you dating.
SPEAKER_01So maybe they were thinking, okay, I'll be there with the women to watch out for the women in case somebody comes to the back door. I don't know. Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that was that's exactly what they're talking about.
SPEAKER_02It's like the dudes. It's like the dudes, like when the girls are in line to get food, and it's like that first guy right behind them, ladies. Like, all right, you could have waited a little bit, but you know.
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Oh funny. And you guys weren't dating at that time. No, we weren't. No, no. That probably helped the chances though, but uh yeah. That's crazy. So, alright, so then you do that.
SPEAKER_03Any stitches?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I think like six stitches in it. Oh, yeah. You still see the scar. That's a pretty good laceration. It's it's right, it's healed up. Oh, wow. Oh my gosh. I didn't even know it. I was like blood. Yeah. Oh my man.
SPEAKER_02So then uh what was your first date with mom?
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_02It was that day. The first official let's go to the hospital.
SPEAKER_01The first date, as I I uh chronolit it. Mom, it's different.
SPEAKER_02Mom's, yeah, you've asked mom, it's a different story. Which is insane. All right, Greg, hear dad's side of the story and then see if you think this is a first date.
SPEAKER_01So I had approached her and said, hey, I want to get to know you more. I'm attracted to you. And uh, you know, I'm not just dating today, obviously. Right, right. So I said, let's go out. And she was like, okay, we can, but nothing one-on-one. So we went out with her sister and brother-in-law. And I said, Oh, that's cool. Okay. And she said, Okay, let's do it. We'll just, and she said, let's just spend time together. She didn't say date, she just spent time. Okay. Which is code for date, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. So that's an okay. But you just tell me, so, and the audience can tell me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so this is where we went. So beforehand, we had, you know, she's I'm like black suit, it I'll tell you where we're going. Okay. Um, decked out. We have dinner, nice dinner, like a fillet, that sort of thing. Fillet. Nice dessert. The fillet, it has to be a date over there. Yeah, right. But we then, and then after that, we're we're right next to the theater. So we go to see the Phantom of the Opera.
SPEAKER_03Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we're Phantom of the Opera, uh, beautiful balcony seats, and then after that, we had like went out for a little coffee and dessert, and um, and she got some roses too, but that was just spending time. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02So if you ask mom right if you ask my mom right now, she'd go, that wasn't our first date. That would that is and it was just you two are the best first date.
SPEAKER_01No, the no, Uncle Um Um Sean and Okay. So you went to dinner.
SPEAKER_03But I'm then that's a double date thing. It was a double date. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a DB. Alright. Filet dinner.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, fillet dinner.
SPEAKER_03And of the opera balcony seats.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then flowers and nothing.
SPEAKER_01And then coffee and dessert afterwards.
SPEAKER_03That's the greatest first date of all time, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if I did that for Greg, that would still like that's like. It's up there.
SPEAKER_03I'm just saying, but yeah, that's incredible. It's up there. Yeah, that's a that's a date.
SPEAKER_02And did you did mom pay for anything? No, she didn't pay for that.
SPEAKER_01That's definitely a date. She didn't pay for a date. So she's still and here's the thing about it. We've been married this month. We'll be married, well, next next Friday. Well, we're married 33 years. Yeah. And to this date, I've told this story for many, many years. And and every person I've talked to, male, female, young, old, this and that's a date. Yeah, that's a date.
SPEAKER_02And I think mom's clever case would be like, no, no, no, it wasn't communicated, but I'm like, by the actions of mom's.
SPEAKER_03That's a high-level date, too.
SPEAKER_02That's not even like coffee, like a typical seminarian. That's like a coffee date? That's not a pastor's salary date.
SPEAKER_01And that was like, yeah, now that I think about it, man, I like I had to save up for that date, you know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Only to be like, that wasn't a date. It wasn't a date.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah. If you say so.
SPEAKER_01Now, but at that time, because mom is Korean, at that time there was some like stuff going on with Koreans and well, because then after, you know, shortly after this is happening, we have the the Rodney King riots.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that's going on. There's issues in some of the Korean shops. There's tension there. There was a lot of tension going on racially, you know, in LA at the time. But you know, we came together at the board and abused it. And here we are now, 33 years later.
SPEAKER_03This month. 33.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 33. On the 19th. That's crazy. Juneteenth is our wedding out of it. Oh my gosh. Wow.
SPEAKER_0210 days. Yeah. You don't know what Juneteenth is, Greg. I'm just kidding. I don't know what Juneteenth is. I'm just kidding. Was there any I mean, we don't have to get into it crazy, but like, was your family to have a problem with her being Korean or anything?
SPEAKER_01No. You know, but you know what I did? I did call like my oldest sister and said, like, I don't I'm not prejudiced at all, but I kind of had this image of what I might my life might be. Yeah. But I called her and said, hey, here's a gal that I'm seeing. Yeah. How does that make you feel? Is there any kind of feelings that you have about it? And she said to me, said, you know what? Years ago, like as a as an unbeliever, I probably would have taken issue with it. But I'm in Christ. And so why is that an issue? If that's the person that you love. And mom's still had the same reaction. Okay. Well, mom's parents didn't. Well, initially they did. Like her granddad, which is interesting. Because I led him to the Lord. He liked me a lot. But her brother and then her mom had an issue. The dad just kind of flowed with the wheel. Just did whatever. Yeah. Did whatever. So they had an issue. And so they didn't come to our wedding. Oh wow. But the Lord healed that relationship in time. And I used to call like her parents like every Wednesday around 11 a.m. Even if I was on somewhere else in the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, members of that. It'd be like a two-minute, not even a very good story. Goodbye.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes she'd say, Where are you now? And I'd tell her, and I hope you're okay. That's good. Okay. Alright.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's life up to this point.
SPEAKER_02Well. So you guys get married, they don't go to the wedding. Was that um hopefully scaling? Um at that point, you knew did you know what you wanted to do as far as after seminary?
SPEAKER_01Well, I just knew I wanted to go past your church. Yeah. I wasn't sure. I like I had no desire for missions feel. I didn't think that I wanted to be teaching in a seminary. Yeah. I wanted to go past your church.
SPEAKER_02And did you feel like a particular calling into the black community?
SPEAKER_01I did, yeah, I did. Um because there are just so few guys that are expositors in that community. So there was a sense of obligation.
SPEAKER_02What's it for people that don't know, what's expository?
SPEAKER_01So expository preaching is it's you dealing with the text and you're you're trying to bring out other text uh the nuances that are there, you know, word, meaning, context. You're bringing out the theology of the text itself and explaining it to the people. You can say I'm trying to expose them to as much as I can about what God meant when he wrote this.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And often expository preaching is best done like consecutively. I preach through a book or take a big passage and preach through that passage. Not like one verse this week, another verse the next week, another topic this week. So expository preaching.
SPEAKER_02Now, why would you say, would you say that expository preaching is the way to go as opposed to?
SPEAKER_01Oh, sure, because you first of all, I think because you you teach people how to understand books of the Bible and passages in theology easily, or or yeah. Um then you teach them the process of interpretation by your example. Yeah. Because you're talking about words and context and legitimate cross-references. So they're realizing, oh, okay, I saw that. Or now that's not that difficult to come to that conclusion. That's good. So that's a part of it as well in expository preaching that's helpful. And it and it gives you the w a a broader view of scripture and its development, you know, through time, as opposed to, you know, messages that are all over the place.
SPEAKER_02So then yeah, so expository, you felt that call. And then you decided to plant a pl a church, which is not the normal, not normal, but it's not it's not normal as far as after.
SPEAKER_01It's not normal. So I planted a church and we started in Culver City.
SPEAKER_02And this was 93.
SPEAKER_01Um, so this was 93. We actually started our first service was 94. Okay. But we kind of started the groundwork in 93. And I was there 13 years and then turned it over to some other TMS grad. Yeah. Then I went to another church that was in Inglewood, kind of revitalization. Yeah. I was there seven years and then felt like, okay, Lord, what's next for me? And we started to look around and I actually got a call from John MacArthur and asked, hey, will you come back to Grace Church and also be a dissent? So that happened like next month is 14 years ago. Wow, that's longer than the church plant.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. As it was there a was there a um not a favorite one, but was there a favorite one? Like that not like I mean in the sense of like I mean it could be also for different reasons.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Both taught me different things. Like the church plant was good because from the beginning this is what we're going to be. Yeah. The revitalization, we shouldn't be that, let's pull it back the other direction. Right. So sweet people in both places. Yeah. I'm probably closer to the ones in the church plant because we were like fun to begin together. Yeah. And I still connect with them. I talk with them. They refer to me as pastor. Yeah. So I have a good relationship there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So then so yeah, so Lauren was born what ninety four. Ninety four. So you're you're going, you have a kid, and that's not like you don't make a lot of money, especially if you're starting. It's not like a business where it's you're trying to grow. Well, I mean, I guess it is, but like it's not that kind of church. No, it's not. It's not one of those. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So for a while, I was uh I would substitute teach. Yeah. Like on Wednesdays, uh go and do substitute teaching because on Wednesdays was a short day. Yeah. And I get out about one o'clock or so.
SPEAKER_02And you and you that's part of the reason why you homeschool, right? Because it was like in the hood and you're a substitute.
SPEAKER_01Uh I was like, no, I don't think we're gonna these public schools here. I don't and we didn't have the money to go to private school. Right. And that worked out well. Yeah. And we ended up saying, okay, let's look at it every year one year at a time. And you we went all the way through high school.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Is that the church um I went with you? You brought me a few years ago.
SPEAKER_01Which one?
SPEAKER_02Uh we went to community of faith. Oh, yeah, community.
SPEAKER_01It's called Yeah, and that church when I left Westside, it was called Westside Bible Church. They merged with another church, another TMS grad. And so now they've been together now for 20 years, I guess. Yeah, it's been a minute. Yeah. I think they just had the 20-year anniversary or something like that. Wow. So pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, so um, so you're doing that, and then would you would you go back like and uh and try to think of how to word this? So like okay, as so as a dad, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um would you recommend people to have more kids, less kids? Uh-huh. Because I feel like I feel like five, like five kids is a lot on a pastor salary.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um, but God provided for us. We got to do things that were fun. You know, we cut corners, we we camped, you know. Uh we didn't do any glamping. Nope. Yeah, we've done glamping now on the other side. Now that uh you know life is different, yeah. But we camped. It was raw. Like we cooked our meals right in the tent. Yeah. And but you know, you had great experiences. We went places that a lot of people have never even gone. Yosemite, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Kings Canyon, Sequoia, Redwoods.
SPEAKER_02Now, where did you learn how to like get a good deal? Because I feel like one thing I've I gotta tell you because one thing I've I've always carried for my dad is the fact that my dad has a good eye for a good deal. I'll tell this to all my friends. I'll be like, growing up, my dad, we'd go to Ross, which is a clearance section store. Then we go to the clearance section in Ross. My dad would shop for shoes. He'd go, alright, is this we're getting this? And I'd be like, this looks like Jerusalem's 5000s. They're not gonna get me any friends, but like I'm just saying that's what happened.
SPEAKER_01What did you was that just like admit a part of it, I think being a church plant, you had to really cut corners. Yeah, you had to make ends meet as a church planter, you know. You're starting out, what do we do? How do we okay? We gotta run the Kinkos to get these copies made. We have to do this. And then, you know, you have this family that's growing. Yeah, how do you make it work? And I just start learning those ways, and I do it to today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm in a different, totally different stage financially. Um, but I I still can't, I can't get myself to pay full price for certain things. Yeah. I just I can't do it. When I when I know I've got some of those things. What are some of those things? Anything electronic. Oh, yeah, yeah, that yeah, that makes sense. Because there's always they're always putting out something every other year, six months. Right. And the only thing that I bought like every uh version of it are my my Sony um headphones. Okay. Because they really have improved them every time. Right. There's a noticeable difference. I'm in number five, they had number six out. I'm not sure if I'll get them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But other than that, there's always a deal somewhere. Somebody paid top price a year ago, two years ago, and they're like, I want the latest, greatest now. So they have it cut down. So I do that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um clothes, I mean, I like nicer things, but and I feel you have to do make an investment in clothes because that can kind of be hard on them. Yeah. But I just wait for Memorial Day sale. Yeah, there we go. I mean, um Black Friday. Black Friday. Yeah. Um, you know, what's it? Joseph Banks. They have nice stuff. I wait when they have that like set true 70% off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I do that. And when it comes to travel, there's always some deal in travel, last minute things. Yeah. So it's just built into my system. Yeah. And in one way, I I feel like a stewardship to do that because what I save, I can give somewhere else. Yeah. I can use it somewhere else. Like to your kids.
SPEAKER_02I think um I think uh I think I think it's also hard too, because I think as a dad, like it's one thing that that's what I realized is once you're grown, it's easier to buy stuff for yourself. But if you have kids that are constantly growing out of things, oh sure, it's got to be tough to go, all right. I you can get these shoes, but I'm gonna have to get you new ones in like two years.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, because their kids are like, wow, they they just grew out of that. What's happening here? Yeah. At some point in time it stops, but there is always that time where they're just growing, growing, growing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What are some of some like what are some fond memories you look on back as a father? Because you're a granddad now. I mean you're a father, but your your granddad. What's some memories that you look back and go, that was some fun times as a dad?
SPEAKER_01Oh sure. Uh I think those camping, you know, uh going out, going swimming, pretending like I remember jumping off a little the little ledge, yeah, and I went under and stayed underwater. Oh no, what's happened to dad? Yeah, you know, coming out, going paintballing.
unknownOh, I love that.
SPEAKER_01You know, and taking on guys with a thousand dollar equipment and and waxing them. Yeah, um, uh doing things like that. Seeing people do sports like Lauren did a roy, um, Justin did a little football, some track, boys did it too. Right. Um Leia, you know, band, you guys both did band. Yeah. Those are all good memories. Yeah. Yeah, those are fun times. And I think game nights were fun. Yeah. Yeah, you know, playing game nights. We were just talking recently. All the family got together for the first time in eight years for Christmas. And because everyone was always scattered, and we were talking about playing Oregon Trail. And we play Oregon Trail the game, yeah, and that was fun. So those are good mom, you know?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03In terms of uh sorry to interrupt your uh questions, Justin. But uh especially, you know, it's being a Father's Day episode. Sure. In terms of um just fatherhood.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_03Especially with um like me with my relationship with my dad or you were talking about your dad earlier becoming a father. Um talk to us a little bit about the kind of obviously the importance of a father at home, but especially I can attest of having such a uh God-fearing just sure provider who's really just the rock of our family. Sure. And uh the impact it had on me growing up.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Yeah, the importance of dad. I mean, statistically, it it's true. But the moment you remove dad from the home, everything increases. Crime. Um, the likelihood of jail time goes up, suicide goes up. I mean, so many other things just rise when there's no dad. Because God has built something into a father figure that offers that stability and authority in the home. And it doesn't mean that it's not loving and kind, it's that too. Um but you see some of these kids just really uh utter foolishness is happening in the streets nowadays. Rest assured that you have no dad or weak dad at home. That's just the reality. Okay. Because there has to be that sense. Like with me and my dad, I thought if people knew me and they would say, Man, you look just like your dad. But there's a problem with that. Because then if I look if they know me and I look just like my dad, guess what? Uh, if I do something that's foolish, I'm connected to him.
SPEAKER_03Reflect back on him, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so there's that sense, and that's also true spiritually. Like we have a heavenly father, and we're supposed to be following that heavenly father. Now, do we do it perfectly? Of course not. I can look back over on things and say, oh man, I wish I'd done that better. But it's so very important. Now, obviously, there's a role for mom, and more and more of our families are laid by moms, but all the moms that I've talked to that are sensible and not some extreme feminist, I'm gonna say, uh, it would have been good to have a man in the home.
SPEAKER_03Kind of that partnership between the parenting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, even biblically, Paul talks when he's talking to the church at Thessalonica, he refers to himself and the other missionaries and ministering to them, he says KD like a father and like a mother. You know, the two working together with one another. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02But that's also too, because I I always reference, and even like that's a you know, mentioned dating, but that's something that I always like notice too, is that girls will or people that I've seen have been like, Man, it's the guys out here do not do certain things that you do. And same thing with Greg, like he's heard that word, they don't open the door for women, they don't you and I remember like one, it was a combination of you, but then also of Joseph and Jordan of being like, this is how you retract women, this is how you do this. And the one time I hit Leia, my sister.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. So what?
SPEAKER_02You want to tell what happened?
SPEAKER_01Because I'll tell what happened. So Justin decided he was gonna hit his sister. I was about to like six, okay? That's true. I don't know if it was six.
SPEAKER_03Five. We're like sixteen. I'm excited because.
SPEAKER_01So we were all doing the whole family was doing martial arts together. And that was another fun memory when we all did martial art. That was fun. And so I said, okay, you want to hit your sister? So I I got the some of our equipment with the two brothers, and we had a put it in so we had a session.
SPEAKER_02What happened was there was a circle and I was in the middle of it, and it wasn't ring around the road. It was ring around the punch, punch him in the middle. And I'm but I'm the funniest thing was I remember Jordan and Joseph was probably like, they're five or so. If I was like seven, they're probably like, I don't know, twelve or thirteen or three. Yeah, probably. And I remember they were scared to hit they were just like uh and I was like, alright. I didn't remember getting punched on that. I just remember being like, alright, I get the message. But like sometimes like you have to like that to me was and I never hit light again. No um on purpose. You know, that but that's just a core memory in in in the Oh sure.
SPEAKER_01It was like, no, unacceptable. Like you see these guys today, especially these athletes, you know, some guy, you dude, you are a linebacker in the NFL, and you just hit a woman.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Really? And what sort of man are you?
unknownUh-huh.
SPEAKER_01But guess what? That's that's been their life. They probably saw it. No one called them on it. They were disrespecting women throughout their life, and there they are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. But I always say that too, not even just like um just social awareness and social manners, but also just like as far as God is concerned. Because I always tell people too, like, I I know God is real because of my parents. Yeah. Like another thing too is like how how is how is it important, not just as a father, but as a Christian father, to be that? Because there's mom there's memories where I especially with purity, and like we've we've gone back and forth on that, but like you what there was never an instance where I was like, I don't know if dad doesn't love mom, or they because there would be moments where we would one watch, even like recently, we'd be watching a movie, and they wouldn't even show anything. They just like wake up in bed with like covers on. You walked up, turned the TV back on, off, and then just sat back down. I remember being like, that wasn't even, you know. But you're you're so like, it's not even about like how far can I go? It's just being as far away as that is how what's that?
SPEAKER_01Well, purity is important. Here's the reality. Um I mean, we're all sinful creatures. Yeah. And if you don't realize that you have the potential to act on that, that's a problem.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes people want to get close to the edge and they think they're not gonna fall off. Yeah. No, they will. Or they say, well, that's legalism. Well, I don't know what how you define that, but that's called striving for purity. Um, I just let me give you a real example. I'm dealing with this issue, like I may have to go see the doctor. I think it's called what's called paraformous syndrome. Whether it's a paraforous muscle that's deep in the glue, that if it's tight and sometimes if it's loose, it pushes on the sidic nerve and it creates problems. And so I was like, So I'm looking on YouTube yesterday, like, okay, what's how do we correct it? What can I do? And I'm noticing that more and more of the guys that are physical therapists, they essentially have a model, you know, ex showing you the exercises.
SPEAKER_03Right, right. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01And one of them was actually what he said was really good, and I saved it. And I thought, you know what? I said, no, I deleted it.
unknownUh-huh.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I deleted it. Because, you know, obviously there's certain positions that you're in with your legs and and and what she had on, which is not right, right. It's not like she had on some big baggy, you know, gym shorts or something. And I just thought, no, I'm not gonna go there. Somebody else has done it, or there's a dude that can do it. Right, right. Because I just don't need that image in my mind repeatedly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that's like the repeated image. And I'm noticing that more. And the guys are just using some model, thinking some guys probably even don't even care about the exercise. Right, right. They just want to look at the girl.
SPEAKER_03Right. And the whole focus of like the whole purpose of the video is just completely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, I mean, you take steps in life, and then with your sons, you want to model that for them. You know, purity. Because you want them to be that. Uh, here's the reality. I'll I'll share this. Um I I stepped outside the boundaries a period when I was an unbeliever. Yeah. Um and so God has been gracious and allows me to push those memories like way back here. But uh if I wanted to, I could conjure them up. And I don't want to. And so I just want to have as few data points in my mind as I can possibly have. Sorry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, yeah, I definitely I definitely have seen that for sure. Um and kind of going back and as far as now back into kind of spiritual life, as far as living life as a Christian. Sure. Um what are what's the kind of your thought processes now as okay? Because growing up, the biggest thing that I kind of struggle with with Christians and Christianity is like there was there's been like kind of a everyone's in their bubble in a way, but uh especially with Christians, it's like there's a disconnect between like the church and like the world. Like you hear that part of the church, like the world this, I guess. What how how uh as a Christian do you look and interact with the world, whether it's politics, whether it's entertainment, or it's just people outside you know the scope of the circle? Like, how do you how do you do it? And like what would you say is the best way?
SPEAKER_01Interact with the world but not be of the world?
SPEAKER_02I guess, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because the scripture says you're in the world but not of the world. Yeah, what yeah. I mean, that's a mission field.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There are people that want to be so reclusive that they want nothing, they don't interact with anyone, uh, it's only their church friends, um, it's only you know the study of the word of God. They don't know anything else in history, they know nothing else. Yes, I think that that's wrong. Right. Sure, it is. Um I don't have to be influenced by the world to be interacting with it. If I don't interact with the world, that means the people in the world, what what's my mission? Right. The mission is to witness to them. And when I reference the martial arts, that's one reason we all did martial arts.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because I kind of came home one day realizing, wait a minute. Okay, I go up to the seminary to teach. So I'm surrounded by pastors and future pastors. Uh my closest friends are pastors or ministers or missionaries. Yeah. And I thought, who do I have in my life that doesn't know the Lord?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh I was like, I needed to be around some people that didn't know the Lord on a regular basis. Yeah. And that was really one of the main reasons we got in the martial arts. Yeah. So we can't hide our light. We have to let people see it. So I can be in the world but not of it. And at some point in time, you have to ask yourself a question, okay, am I being influenced by the world here too much? Then it's time to back away. Because then I'm losing my mission. Right. Because people don't know, they can't discern your light.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What is the world? Like, what's the definition of the world?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that comes up, you know, what is the world? Yeah. You know, do not love the world or the things of the world, the lust of the flesh, and the boastful pride of life, first John tells us. So the world is a system. Okay. It's a system that is bent against God. Okay. Uh, the world's system are the things that distract us. Um, because in Hebrews 12 it talks about, you know, that we should run the race in front of us, don't be entangled with the sins of this life. So what are the things that may entangle me? And there are things in the world that are I'll call them amoral, but if they occupy too much of your time, they become immoral. Like, for someone to watch, uh, what are we in the NBA championships now, right?
SPEAKER_03Finals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, finals. Is it wrong to watch the finals? No, of course not. I don't think. I say of course not, but in my estimation, it's not wrong to watch it. But if you're like watching every game, uh, the you know, breakdown afterwards, every highlight. It just consumes your and it consumes your life, your time, you're you're out there Xing about what happened, and you're not taking care of family or your spiritual life, the world has too much of you. You need to be able to walk away from anything at any point in time. That that's the determining factor. Paul talked about buffeting his body. What could I walk away from at any point in time? If I can't walk away from it, I'm not in control. So um there are things out there that are perfectly acceptable, but if they consume too much of my time and require too much of my resources, then I have to make a change.
SPEAKER_02So, in particular, as an American, how does how does that look like involving you know, dealing with like politics or Christian nationalism and all that stuff? It's like because I'm trying to because I'll I'm trying to figure out like what does that look like for the average guy that's like trying to love Jesus but also is like getting pulled to this side or that side.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think when it and quickly on politics, um, you know, I'm an American citizen too. Yeah. So I have a privilege, and I even say an obligation to interact as best I can, yeah, and making good decisions when it comes to politics, because there are always consequences with it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I can't say, oh man, the world is going to hell in a head handbasket. Well, you could have helped that to some degree. Yeah. Had you not voted the way that you did, yeah. Or at least interacted with it. Where is that line where it's too much and people think they can save society? The Bible is clear, you cannot save society. Yeah. It's clear. Paul told us it's going to get worse and worse and worse before Christ comes. Can you hold back the tide a little bit? You can. By your own example, by witnessing the people they come to Christ, influencing people that have influence as much as you can. But there is a line. Where is that line? I don't, I can't tell a person. Their conscience has to guide them in that, but their conscience has to be mature too.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01Because some people may say, well, my conscience allows me freedom in this area. Well, it shouldn't. Because you're violating other biblical principles by applying that. Right. So I interact at a certain political level. Yeah. Because the issues today are very much spiritual. Yeah. Yeah. Uh it's very spiritual from the standpoint of okay, what month is this in the minds of many people? Well, I would say uh um I don't recognize Pride Month. Yeah. Because that's a detriment for people who are in that lifestyle. But now that becomes political, but it really is a spiritual issue. Yeah. Um abortion is they say it's political. No, it's not, it's a spiritual issue. Right. But um how do we understand gender? They say, well, that's
SPEAKER_02political no it's not it's a spiritual issue God made man and woman it's pretty clear um and so the moment we try to make things uh political then we don't feel any need to maybe talk to that person say you should change because that's just your political position yeah no your political position now is confronting a biblical position I just saw in New York this crazy legislation where they're gonna they're gonna stop referring to like say parents they're gonna refer to gest stating and non-gest stating like what like what a what is that even what what what what does gest stating meaning well because so instead of saying mother and father so you're the one that produced that now yeah like you yeah it's just utterly utterly ridiculous where we are that's weird and why go to see that's a spiritual issue that's not political yeah but that's another thing too it's like it's it's it's funny because I remember reading uh what's it called screw tape letters sure and um the devil yeah it's it's just very interesting because the devil doesn't come as this no for the most part this brooding demon that we think of he's gonna come one as an angel of light so the things that are in type two but also subtly sure uh and uh you know a little bit here a little bit there that's how he tempted Eve right it was like sure here's a little bit of bite he just like God and then before you know it we're homeless in LA you know yeah yeah well that's it there's a I mean because the world is broken you know and yeah the screw cheat letters is such a perfect thing it's like hey let them think what they're doing is moral but it really isn't let them think what they're doing is a freedom of expression right but it really isn't yeah it's gonna be binding to them and then what you do it's what the Bible said in in Isaiah 5 like what happened in society in Isaiah's time it says you call evil good and good good evil yeah light darkness and darkness light so I say um marriages between a man and a woman oh that's evil yeah you're a hater I say a man should be with a man oh you're a hater yeah you're in the darkness you don't see so everything is reversed yeah yeah it's very uh so you wrote a book it's called a thankful journey yeah uh it's cra it there's pictures and there's not a single picture of me that's okay uh for sure then sorry what I'll do this book at you anyway uh so how did this book come about that book is interesting that all started back in COVID uh when uh crazy time uh crazy time in California we were in total lockdown initially you remember that yeah gosh so I just in the morning what I would do is read a psalm meditate on it kind of distill it down to one or two verses then I just put out a word that says be thankful it was started just one sentence be thankful for and then I started to incorporate pictures think what picture kind of captures that idea then I expanded it more and more and more and so it became little mini devotionals on every psalm of the Bible and they did a great job with incorporating my pictures right in it as well that kind of tell a part of the journey. Right so yeah so on each for the camera for each there's like a and this is pretty much the same for each page but you got a a devotion and is this a is this a song yeah it's a no then you have a a line from a hymn that you can sing.
SPEAKER_01Okay so a heading uh the verse yeah the devotion and then a line from a hymn that you can sing in your devotion so it's like about every song or yeah every song wow yeah every song something oh and then a song to go with that and then a picture. Wow yeah oh wow how did you choose all the pictures it you know I would just kind of scroll through my album and think oh I think that kind of captures it yeah I think that captures it yeah and they're pr and they came out pretty high quality I remember scratching yeah no they did a really really good job uh on kind of incorporating it and it was also so interesting because initially I was going to do the book and I was going to just use a QR code and I had a web page set up and you can hit the QR code and go to it. Yeah but that was gonna be a little clumsy yeah because everyone was saying it's too expensive yeah to do pictures and then color pictures right but we found a printer that did it which is pretty amazing. Yeah that's awesome so what's like your hope for people at when they read it I'm hoping that they'll do just what it says every devotion starts off with be thankful that if you go through life realizing whatever life brings your way that there's always a reason for you to be thankful. So each day be thankful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah that's incredible so pastor dad granddad what do you like the best probably being a father I'll just answer that. Anyway um okay so I in all seriousness like as a as advice for someone who might be like a dad now or is looking to be a dad yeah what's some advice that you're dad now is time flies.
SPEAKER_01Yeah like I look back and think wow um I'm sitting here with you now yeah and I remember both of you were like you know and now look especially Greg who's it's gone and now I'm a granddad to two kids where did time go and then it's gone so you have to make your investments and have a as best you can have a relationship that you can have it later in life and that is you know we have a relationship we can talk you can come over you can eat especially when you can eat of course I can't I've seen him do that. Okay I'm hungry I'm going over my parents come back with my oh no you can cook stop the madness man yeah so I think that's important time is kind of like wow where is it yeah and then you find yourself okay you look back and you want to have as few regrets as possible which means you have to invest in the here and now do you have any regrets as a dad? Yeah I do yeah it's uh I I regret not spending as much time with each of you individually um we had time together and I don't have any like I really really feel guilt over it but I still look back and say oh I could have done better better here so I think that and um so that's another thing and here's the other thing I think what dads like enjoy laugh you know with your family um that's why like board games go out have fun the person it's more the jokester in the family laugh at what he has to say um you know that sort of thing yeah I would like to say I take my my humor from Jordan yeah Jordan totally Jordan is so funny totally totally Jordan is the funny one in the family totally the funny one but enjoy those moments because you just they could be gone in any moment. Right. Yeah so I think that's what's important. And then uh your family needs to see that you love Christ. Yeah and even beyond them you have to love Christ which may mean you take a stand for Christ but against them. And later on in life they'll appreciate it's like Charles Spurgeon when he heard his mother praying once and that he said you know because at that time Spurgeon didn't know the Lord and he essentially heard his mother praying that you know Charles didn't come to faith that one day she would stand with Christ against against Charles and he was like shocked by that. Yeah like my mom especially from mom yeah like mom is gonna be like no away with you you rejected my savior that's deep so I think there has to be some sense that children realize that that Christ is first in their life yeah well the Thankful Journey is out where is it at where is it you can get it on Amazon Amazon Amazon and uh we don't have an audience know how they go and everyone gets a free copy copy because okay anyway well thanks for thanks for being here and uh yeah see you guys next time