Utmost saddle sniffers

Lael round the world and tour divide news followed by the Brooks "new saddle", and lots of saddle opinions!  listener mail and a good question about deciphering geometry charts and how they translate to real world rolling.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Okay, sweetie. We ready to do this? Reporting live from the beating heart of Nutmeg Country.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Cable actuated and affirmated.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

This is Altbike New Alternative Radio for Alternative Cyclists. I'm Ronnie Romance. That's right. Aria is in Portland via uh a live wire here. We got Aria, she's out in Portland. I hope the the connection is strong so that everyone could hear. Talk to us a little bit, Aria.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Our connection is strong. Is is the Morris code that I'm sending you?

unknown 0:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Is everyone hearing the Morris code? That's a no. I didn't hear any Morris code on that one.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Okay. Well, yeah, I'm in Portland uh for the next couple of weeks. Next couple of weeks, a couple of days.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Um it's so hot here. It's like so dry and hot, but very nice in the shade. I'm at unparked right by Forest Park. And just looking at these big trees. I'm here visiting my bestie who's going through a really rough patch in life right now. So I wanted to be here with her. Sorry, I can't be there with you, but you know, best friends come first.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

And this is an all-bike friend, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Yep. Yep. It's Sally Sal from Shovel Research, who lives in Portland, and it's been a beautiful day.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

So I'd imagine we have a lot of listeners from Portland, Oregon, being that when I look at, you know, our analytics, which I do daily on the on our website, not really. We seem to have a lot of customers from Portland, Oregon. And that's no surprise, I suppose, because Portland, Oregon is I would may maybe not even unofficial at this point, the official bike town of the United States.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, I could see it.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Are you seeing a lot of people out, out and about?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Not so much, but surprisingly many for how hot it was yesterday. We went hiking at Powell Buttes, and I saw views of all these mountains all around. But they're like in 94 degree heat at 1 p.m. People were still riding their mountain bikes like shirtless, climbing up. I was like, I can't believe this. So yeah, not only is it the Rose City, it's also the bike city, and it does feel really nice here. The food is so good.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Oh my god, Sin City for me with the food. You just cannot let me loose in Portland. Well, when I do go, you know, Patrick and I basically start Patrick, the other half of Ultra Dynamico lives in Portland. And whenever I'm out there, your best friend. Yeah, my best friend, yeah, we have a lot of Portland connections. And whenever I'm out there, we use my visit as an excuse not only to ride a bunch, but to, you know, go out to eat every single meal essentially and put it on the company card. That's basically why we started Ultra Dynamico. And oh my God, yeah, we uh we go hard. We go hard when we're in Portland.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

It's easy to everything like it's just a paradise for people like us. So I get it. I get it. Lucky y'all who live here. Um I guess.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yeah, the summer, exactly. It's nice and dry and and warm and sunny in the summertime. So yeah, you're seeing that as best. Even at 94 degrees, Portland is pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

It's it's the best. And you know, it's super hazy today. I guess there was a big boat fire on the river yesterday. But but anyway, um, I wanted to say thank you to all of the people that have been contributing to the pod.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

And all the nice messages.

unknown 4:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

But you know, money talks, money talks, money talks. So we'll talk about you first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Since we've thanked Robert Prilou, Angela, we have had a flurry of contributors from Ruby Agatha, The Gateses, Kevin and Amanda. Thank y'all. Dakota Graph. Dakota Graph, shout out Olesky, Joe Carroll, uh, John Watson. They said not the other John Watson, not Raleigh. Um and Sean Clark. Thank y'all so much. Even though, you know, this hosting site takes a good chunk. They take 15%. Patreon takes 10%.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

So really, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, yeah, it's still a thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Uh, okay. But you know, all they want to do is well, shout out to Dakota Graffin there. I did I just noticed that. That's a one of the coffee people at Onyx. He travels the world doing cuppings to various places. And I just saw that he finished up a really amazing looking bike tour with our bags in Japan with one of his friends. So shout out Dakota, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Shout out to both the Gateses and all of their animals and the other John Watson. I was like, oh, oh, okay, John. Um, we another very important update is that we will be releasing this pod on Tuesdays instead of Mondays. Ronnie and I have just found that Mondays are just a little too hectic for us to be recording in the morning. It kind of sets us back a little bit in the day for work and catching up from the weekend. So hope if it's hope it's okay for everyone to have this be released on on Mardi Gras.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Mardi Gras. Oh, Tuesdays. Mardi Gras. You know, yeah, we do every Tuesday. Every Tuesday, every Tuesday. It's Fat Tuesday. Yeah, we have a lot of, especially being at Summer, we've been, I mean, it's it's a a good problem to have. We've been very busy with orders and whatnot. And yeah, when orders, we've got a bunch of orders to fulfill every Monday, a lot of customer service to get into. So yeah, Mondays are a busy day. So I'm gonna move this to a Tuesday recording as of next week. As of now, this is a Monday, so just a little bit later in the day since we're dealing with Portland West Coast time.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

So tell your friends, tell your friends who your thousands of friends who listen to this pod, millions of friends who listen to this pod that we are going to Tuesday now.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Tuesdays. We're gonna have a little bit different of a format this this episode, also, because we have so many uh listener males from not just males. You're looking I'm looking at Aria right now, you're just glancing out the window.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Are you spacing out?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

No, I was just looking away because of your males males joke.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Fair enough. So, yeah, Arya's gonna kind of give do like an interview format with me a little bit later on with our listener mails after we get through the headlines. So with that, shall we get into said headlines?

SPEAKER_01 7:33

It is really nice getting these questions in. Also, we because we this is a democratic process and we really like mail and hearing people's opinions and voices on what because we're opinionated, we respect other opinionated people. They do not want to hear about pro-road races.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

We'll save it to the end.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Um, so if you're not somebody who's into the the race side of things, apologies and you could just turn us off at the end. Yeah, right, right. Because it is race season, it's it's grand tour season, so for us it is an exciting time, and we love it. And there are a few people who have said that they do like this aspect of it while still holding, clutching on to their alt pearls.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

There are storylines. I I could I could recall somebody saying that as a proud unracer, I would rather not hear about procycling news. And I think I responded as a proud uh proud previous unracer myself, I hope we can we can offer a balanced, a balanced view of the two worlds because they do intersect in many ways, much more than they used to, I feel like. I feel like alt cycling has become, you know, there's a lot, there's not people aren't just doing one, there's not just single disciplined cyclists out there in the professional field now. These guys and are are doing all sorts of stuff. So anyway, we'll talk about that at the end. You don't have to worry about it now. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

You don't have to worry.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

We just like talking about it. That's why we talk about it. And that's why we started this podcast to begin with. We just wanted to, you know, talk about what we like talking about over coffee every morning. So I'm actually pretty excited that we're even though you're you're traveling like this, this is just a really nice way for us to catch up.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

So it really is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Yeah, yeah. So I really appreciate this, and I love seeing your beautiful face, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Oh, I love seeing your apple tree.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Because you've been gone for a few days already. And I'm like, Where?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

You know, I'm just I'm just dragging through life here without you.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Okay, enough of that, huh? This is what people like. We've got step. Um, as many of you may be remembering from our previous uh episode, Layla Wilcox is out on her Around the World Faster project. She is currently, let me bring up her her website here, the Leal Wilcox.net has uh is information rich, let me tell you. They're doing a really cool thing with all of the sponsors, just putting the maps of each leg of the journey right there in front of you, along with each day and stop. She is currently uh two miles a day behind her current goal. But she has crossed all the way through the first part of North America. She'll finish in North America, but she's halfway through all of that because she's gone up through Canada and gotten to Nova Scotia and flown out. So she is in the air right now as we speak, headed to Portugal, where she will uh then get back on the bike. I had imagined that she would get off the airplane and have maybe someone's I just picture somebody like waiting, like Rue waiting there with a bike at the airport. Just be like, get on. So that's my that's that's my fantasy. So I guess Portugal, uh, she'll be through that in like a half a day and into Spain, crossing Spain. I know they're having a heat wave in in Europe right now, so hopefully that passes a little bit because it has been just as hot as it is in Portland there for you in Europe right now. So pretty wild. And Spain is not known for its mild climates this time of year. So best of luck to Lil. I wanted to bring heat and Lil's dry heat too. She does she though, she does not like the dry heat, though. She likes the she was saying the entire I've been f following along on Instagram. It's been some great videos being put up by Rue, but she likes a little bit more humidity, it's easier on her asthma.

unknown 12:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

So uh it was a lung fungus.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Uh good. She ha did have a lung. I mean, yeah, she there were reports of a lung fungus, but I suppose the lung fungus can cause asthma. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when you are out and about like sleeping in the dirt and just doing just these huge, huge trips like Lail does throughout a lifetime. Really, she's been at it for 15, 20 years now. Yeah, you do you open yourself up to all sorts of uh lung funguses throughout the life. I wanted to apologize to the current record holder because you refer to him just as quote unquote some dude. Say his name, Mark Beaumont. Mark Beaumont. Scottish. You love Scottish people. No, no. I should do that's one of your favorite accents to emulate. It's really born in 1983. I mean, Mark Beaumont. I I'm I'm not up on these ultra-endurance stuffs stuffs as much as I possibly should be to talk about it at any any uh sort of uh Yeah, ultra endurance is so old. Yeah, it's very old. And I'm I have uh truthfully have not been following it. So, you know, this route that Layla is doing has to be 18,000 miles long to constitute a Guinness Book of World Records. And this guy, Mark Beaumont, this some dude, Mark Beaumont from Scotland, he is well, he was born in 1983. How much how old does that make him now?

SPEAKER_02 13:51

42.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

42. Mark Beaumont, in 2008, he broke broke the standing record of 276 days by more than two months. So one would have considered this low-hanging fruit back then, I suppose, if you could beat a record by two months. And I believe he was not supported on this ride. And he was he he beat this record by two months, despite being involved in a collision and several bouts of dysentery. Say it with me now, folks. Dysentery.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Dysentery.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah, it doesn't sound like my kind of ride, so to speak, but you know, it's what killed US President James Polk, everyone. It's my favorite. That's a good nugget of info there. Thank you. Now, all of this was put in a documentary that was released by the BBC called The Man Who Cycled Around the World. But then just so uh you know, the I guess the risk in, you know, putting all these records out there is that two years later, Vin Cox breaks the record again. Boy, oh boy. Can you imagine just sitting there after a journey after your journey through dysentery that killed President James Polk? Okay? And you're sitting there on the couch and you hear this guy, Vin Cox, just beat your record, and you gotta do it again. So then 2017 rolls around. Mark was back, okay? But he was inspired by the Jules Verne novel Around the World in 80 Days. So it's an arbitrary number in in some ways. Okay. So, you know, this is this is you're kind of just throwing numbers out there at this point and being like, well, can I I mean if you thought about it, the last time he had tried 276 days, and now he's trying for 80 days. Yeah, yeah. Supported this time. Yeah, yeah, right. Let's try to beat eight, let's try to beat it. So yeah, so yeah, I could do it at 78.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

And then he raised a million dollars and did it.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah, yeah, true. So for so 80 days, inspired by the Jewel Vazora novel, this was fully supported, and he crossed Russia and I think stopped at the Great Wall of China, and then had it, you know, it's just gotta reach this 18,000 mile mark, okay? And so he makes it in 78 days, 14 hours, and 40 minutes, beating Vin Cox by 44 days. Take that, Vin Cox. So then Vin Cox is the guy sitting on the couch being like, God damn it. Am I gonna do that again? I wonder. I don't know. Less information out there on Vin Cox. So that's the current yeah, no, not Vin Diesel, right. Plenty of information out there on Vin Diesel. Boy, oh boy, can you imagine Vin Diesel doing this? That would be that would be something. That would get the world's attention. I live for this shit. That's what he would say.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

I guess Vin Diesel's like a pretty big Magic the Gathering or like DD nerd, which is very endearing.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yeah, that is endearing. Diesel the DD nerd, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

And he was the voice of the iron giant. An animated short that I or film that I love.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Anyway, well our fa we f I mean to digress more, we have this. You I'm I'm surprised not to get a little lol out of you out of my Vin Diesel quote, but we were in you being sick in that hotel in Baja California. Yeah. Triple triple. And then it would just they'd show a bunch of like a side quest story here. Cars drive the Grand Department. Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Um we along with the got sick and Ron was stuck in the hotel room for like a full day with just the Spanish speaking TV as company, and he got advertisements for Triple X, the Vin Diesel movie, like endlessly. And I I I got back to the hotel room to him just being like ooks over and over again in his delirium.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

It was very, very funny. You had to be there. You had to be there. Anyway. But the one English quote that they that they said in that commercial was they had a bunch of cars like flying off bridges, and it's just Vin Diesel like mid-flight. I live for this shit. Anyway, okay, we'll get enough of Vin Diesel.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

As old cyclers, we can relate to that. We can relate. Because we do, in fact, live for their shit.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Dysentery, I live for this shit. Live for this huge giant shit I'm about to take. Okay, uh yeah, Vin Cox. Back to Vin Cox. Okay, so yeah, Vin Cox is old news by now, lost his record by 44 days. Current, yeah, so the so the current record, 78 days, 14 hours, 40 minutes. That's what Lale's going after. We said in our last podcast the record that Lale set for the women's record just last last year or two years ago. Do you remember? Two years ago, yeah. How many days was that?

SPEAKER_01 19:17

103 or 108.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

So, you know, she's trying to shave off quite a bit of time here, also. So, you know. So, I mean, I I get I guess Mark Beaumont's sitting on that couch right now being like, I mean, he's got at one you know, one part of him has gotta be thrilled to see that somebody's going after his record. But I mean, being having to ride 240 miles every single day on average. I mean, and Lale is two miles behind each day on average so far, uh just about 10 days in. So we'll be following this closely, but I just wanted to give Mark Beaumont a good shout out here because I mean, if you I was if you were think about if you were just on on I mean, on a really uh this very popular podcast, somebody somebody just referenced you as some dude, but you had attempted twice to oh he's all to ride around the world and set records both times. Oh, he also attempted to set a record for like rowing across, I'm not gonna say the Atlantic, but pretty dang close, and his boat capsized. And he survived he survived that also. So this guy deserves some recognition. Not that he doesn't have it already, but in the alt cycling world. Hope we get to meet him somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

I think Mark is well celebrated, and I know that he's um Jenny Graham, who set the record before Lale's 108 days was is the current women's record.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

108 days, 12 hours, 12 minutes. So that's Lail.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Um so the I mean her the first her her ride so far has looked really rainy. I don't know if you've if you've been following along on Instagram, but like it's it's looked pretty brutal. Uh like highways, I guess you it's that's just part of it. You gotta you're not riding like beautiful roads. You're trying to ride the flattest roads, which are pri which are always primary roads. You know, the flattest roads are are always the roads that are the busiest because the they engineer those roads to be the fastest way between point A and point B. And so that's basically what you gotta do. So, I mean, I could if you see the footage of I mean, you're just riding like a highway, you know, like a highway shoulder with a rumble strip, and there's just like semis in the rain just blazing by you all day long. I don't know. That's not for that's not for everyone. It's not for everyone, but that's how you break records. Okay. Well, on to our next bit of news.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Speaking of intense record breaking things people are up to. There are 231 riders that are on talkleaders.com slash 4526. 231 riders out of that, 25 are women, three non-binary riders, which is pretty cool, and there are 15 single speeders. And we talked about Billy Newbury's bike last week and how I really liked it so much. And yeah, Billy's killing it.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

You've basically got to when you've packed that little.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

It's it's pretty cool. I mean, single speed, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yeah, it's the single speed mentality, is is I supp is even simpler. Yeah. So yeah, much respect. Much respect. I mean, we we I'm I got a few messages on Instagram at least that a lot of people had looked at Rigs of the Chordovide on bikepacking.com after our uh after our little rip right there. And and yeah, I'm sorry you had to look at that, everybody. But you know, I think it's I think it's worthwhile. You know, I I was uh looking at on the bikepacking YouTube, there's a great video on all of the data that they were able to gather on rigs of the tour divide. So how many like drop bar versus flat bar versus arrow bar versus wheel size, tire size, like all this fun stuff. And of course, age was in there also. And overwhelmingly, the age group for the grand part of the tour divide is like ages 50 to 70. And so, you know, a lot of this, a lot of these rigs are I mean, when you're that age, you are a dad and you do not care. Am I right? Yeah, it's fair. So, I mean, fair enough. I don't think anyone's going for a look here. But, you know, rigs of the tour divide on bikepacking, they are it is out right now. If you want to take a look, the ones for this year's Tour Divide are up as opposed to last weekend. Just I I implore you to just go through there and try to find a bike that you'd like to ride. Just try.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah. Try.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

If you thought we were harsh, just take a look at what we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

You'll understand our passion.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

You'll understand our passion, you'll you'll understand our disdain. You will. And uh this very well may radicalize you.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

So I mean podcasts is how people become radicalized.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

So we've been following along, a few of our friends, namely my cousin, one of my cousins, Matt Engel, shout out. Maybe he'll even listen to this. He's a an engineer by trade. He's retired now and is able to do all this really cool stuff that I was able to do when I was retired before I actually but my retirement was actually before I had a job. So we kind of switched places. He's a few years older than me, but yeah, he's just he's out there. Let me I'll I'll click on him right now. Where is he?

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Auntie Laura said that his goal was 37 days. Yeah, I noticed which is he's not trying to like race, but I I he might be trying to having met him, he might be trying to just use this as like recon and then he might like properly race.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Yeah, knowing him. You know, and um it's interesting. I always find it, you know, he also traveled he also travels in a van in the off season and rides around the west and things like that. But you know, we're we're we loosely grew up together, but we have we've kind of like found our passion in lives, and it's like the same thing. We're both living our perspective dreams, but his but like our van compared to his van, like he's like all fucking decked out, and our van is just basically a tin a tin can with a bed in it. And and then his bike, his bikes are you know, S works or it doesn't work, and we're just riding around, we're riding around, you know, the opposite aesthetic of all that. So he's very optimized, tail fin, you know, lots of tail fin products, but he's out there doing it. Oh, yeah, no beard, short hair. He I just same face you do look like him. Yeah, I do. Yeah, we do look like we're brothers. He lives up in he lives up in New Hampshire. I live down here in Connecticut, and I'm just clicking on him. He just crossed the border. Congratulations, Matt Engel. Just crossed the border. So he's doing great.

unknown 26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Yeah, 363 miles in. So if you're listening to this, Matt, shout out, cuz keep it going. We're we're watching. Another shout out we wanted to give was Riley Osgood.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah. Right? Who also crossed uh the border yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Okay, so he's ahead of ahead of my cousin.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Yeah, yeah. I think when I was doing it, I had crossed the border like on day three as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

They should really in track leaders, they should really just put up a big Aria. So that everyone can everyone can follow where you were on the on this route.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

I know. Why don't I have a little star? My performance was legendary.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Legendary. So right, right, Riley had a little feature on bikepacking last week, I think, of his his specialized chisel build with uh charadise in the front, I think. It's good, it's uh it's as far as uh Rigs of the Tour Divide goes, it's it's one of the I mean, I didn't really see any better looking ones other than Bailey's.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah, Bailey's is truthfully.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

I didn't look through all of them. I just couldn't, I couldn't stomach it. But I'm already radicalized. I didn't need to, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

It's okay. I understand.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

So yeah, way to go, Bailey. I mean, sorry, yeah, definitely way to go, Bailey, but way to go Riley also.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah, there's I mean I'm I'm impressed at the the list of women that are here too. There's someone from Japan, woman, Oni Giri. Wait, is that no, someone is I don't know if that's a real name.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

There's a lot of tomfoolery going on with these track leaders, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, because some someone's name is like my kitten is whatever. Yeah. Someone's name.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

But we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah, when you've been yeah. Okay. So so, you know, I I think it's a fast, I think to end this little segment. It's a fast course, I hear. They had a little bit of rain the first day, but it's been dry and speedy, and the winds have been favorable. There's a little smoke in New Mexico right now, but everything looks pretty good. So we are on pace, I think, for the men's and women's for record breaking record record breaking paces. Are on pace for record-breaking paces. Oh my goodness, correct. Yeah, and it that's that's I mean, the 2021, the first year that you attempted, wasn't there like somebody who was at a spot like days after you got eaten by a grizzly bear, like dragged out of her tent?

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah, yeah. It was it was really sad. She was granted she was told that and you know, an extremely experienced white backer and had done this section before. Um just never know he was close to a window, I want to say. I want to say the post office, like the golden, got dragged out by a bear, like while she was inside her tent. And what's funny? Like, not only does the human perish, they have to kill the bear too. So it's just not a good situation.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

So I really hope everybody stays safe and I've always found found like singing to your singing out loud through bear country is just gonna make a lot of noise out there. It it can get it can get very scary because it is. I mean, you're gonna see bears. It's that's straight up bear country. Like that's where they are, grizzlies. Um it's their land, yeah. It's their land. And so in Montana alone, just this month, I guess there's been three at three documented attacks already and already a death. Already a death. And and people are saying out on the course that they're seeing more bears than usual. So hungry. They're hungry. Yeah, no, you know, they're stressed and hungry. So it's uh, you know, kind of unnerving. But that'll keep you going at night, won't it? Oh yeah. Keep you riding at night. For sure. Yeah. So, so yes, best of best of luck. You need a little more than luck, I suppose, with bears, but you know, uh, hope everyone's out there being safe and singing, singing out singing the top of their lungs through the the the more sketchy sections of bear country. And you see, you start seeing a lot of scat on the trails, and you hear some like, you know, yeah, you know, it's you've been there. Yep. All right, well. Shall we move on to the next? We're gonna move on to so Brooks. Brooks of England, not Brooks running shoes or Brooks Brothers. These are reasons why Brooks can't do clothing or shoes because of the Brooks Brothers and Brooks running shoe trademarks. I always find that that to be interesting. Even though Brooks is a 137-year-old company. Of course, Brooks was I I I call like Brooks synonymous with alt cycling. Like I find like the Brooks saddle, namely the B-17, which is their most classic shape, to be the saddle of alt cycling. This saddle changed my life. It got me off of 15 plus years ago, it got me off of like pure race saddles, such as the flight titanium that I had ridden for uh I guess 20 plus years prior. I make a joke that my uh anatomy developed in puberty around the flight titanium. And so I have I switched to the Brooks B-17, right, as I was getting into bike touring more and out of and and riding in like normal clothing as I was being radicalized by Grant Peterson and then the late aughts. And at that point, it was really those are the only only places he really saw Brooks saddles were on Rivendells or classic bikes. They hadn't really, you know, the the Cambium, that's their kind of a rubber saddle, vegan saddle, I guess, has been a great success for them. Hadn't been released yet at that point. But you know, they were bought out by Cela Royale Group, which does physique and crank brothers and maybe Cela Italia. I c I don't I can't confirm that. But and they were bought out by them in 2002, okay? And if you were been watching the the internet at all this week, you may have seen the kind of trickle, I guess the past few weeks, a trickle out of this uh what they've been espousing as a new saddle. And I think they got people pretty excited for a new saddle whenever you say something is new. But sorry to say, folks, it's just a B-17 with different leather. Uh so you know, I I don't I was given the utmost. It's called the B-17 Champion Utmost. Great name, right? I mean, uh uh maybe a little bit redundant, but I'm all about redundancy when it's when it's words like that. And very English. Very English. Now this saddle was given to me. I had to, I wasn't allowed to like take any photos of it or anything, but I had they gave it to me, I want to say, like the last fall to kind of get broken in, and then they had me out to Arizona to do a little like video shoot and photo shoot with the saddle last uh last spring, early spring. I guess that wasn't early spring, that was winter.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

So, you know, I was like, I should add a side note. We are not sponsored by Brooks at all. Ronnie just models for them sometimes because he's such a simp for them.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Okay, I have a big I have a I have a a spiritual connection to the brand because of what it's done for me. And I have uh, as you may have heard me heard me reference in a in a previous podcast that I have urethra problems, and I had my first surgery to remove urethral strictures when I was uh 17 years old from blunt impacts of my flight titanium when I was a teenager. And I've had three surgeries since. They just have to basically laser out the scar tissue every 10 years, and so uh the Brooks B-17 made it so that I can comfortably ride a bicycle, you know, in ways that were impossible for me before learning about a hammocked leather saddle and how comfortable that can be. I started commuting on them and then I realized, oh, you don't even need a chamois with these. Then, you know, they're they're that that's why they're so alt-bike is because they just require such little thought into, you know, you're able to just grab your bike and go ride. And you just can't do that with a a modern uh hard plastic shelled with foam on top saddle. And so I also love the tradition of the brand. I love the shape of the B-17, I love the look of it. It's just a beautiful saddle, it's timeless. It's there's a reason why they've been around for that long. Now, in recent years, the leather on the B-17 has taken a huge nosedive. And it's just, I mean, I've I've found, you know, basically a rule of thumb, especially if you're just getting into leather saddles here, the rule of thumb is like if you get a leather saddle and it breaks in quickly and easily, that means it's gonna basically wear out in a year or two. And it's unfortunate because you know, you're you think you're purchasing this like this lifelong investment that you're is gonna mold to your sit bones because that's what these leather hammock style saddles do. And you're you get real excited because this saddle is the most comfortable thing you've ever ridden for a few months for you know a few hundred miles, and then all of a sudden you start having it starts hammocking out a little bit more than what you like, and you have to tighten the tensioning bolt. And before you know it, a year and a half later, you've got a saddle with the tensioning bolt all the way stretched out. The saddle's inches longer than it was when you got it the year before, and you gotta like pull a Grant Peterson and shove a bunch of foam under there in order for it not to in order to save the thing. And they look terrible when they've hammocked out like that, too. So I just don't, you know, the last geez, three or four B-17s I feel like I've had, even the titanium ones have just stretched out in like a year. Forget about it if you get them wet. That's they're over, you know, they'll stretch out that day. So, you know, this B-17 utmost, this new one, I guess if anything, you want to say what's new about this saddle is that it has a thicker, more more longer break-in period for the leather, and that's a good thing. It's gonna be really uncomfortable, that's the downside for the first three, four hundred miles, even, but it's gonna gradually break in. And I could already tell that that the leather on that saddle is really, really nice, and it's going to last a really long time. So the other thing that they change, or the other thing that uh they the other another reason why perhaps that they decided to call it new is that it has tubular stainless steel rails now, and there's like a laser cut like stainless steel, which I don't like very much. It's it's kind of garish. Uh the back of the saddle says Brooks and like this laser cut like stainless steel thing. And of course it's got the hand hammered copper rivets, great looking saddle, natural veg tan leather. All their saddles, I think, are veg tan, but this is like a natural veg tan, so it's just like what the leather would look like. Matches uh tan wall tires really, really well. So, you know, I don't I thought it was I just I don't know why that they were calling this like a new saddle. It's it is just a B17. I think that they should just, in my opinion, I guess another weird why I get so passionate about Brooks is that I feel like I feel like I could I just I could be like, I could run this brand. I could do I I know exactly what Brooks needs. So like I just get like on my high horse about them, and I just get kind of kind of butthurt that they don't ask me for more of my insight. I I will like toot my own horn here. I don't think that there is another rider out there in this world that is more a more visible Brooks rider than myself, nor has more experience with the whole lineup. So, you know, if you have any questions about saddles, just give me a just give me an email. I love to talk about them. Um I've since moved on.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

He sure does.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

I've since moved on to other saddles, you know, like uh the French company Giles Bertund, of course, Cycles Ideale, another French company. Those are very expensive. The Bertunes were expensive, but they're this new Brooks Utmost is about the same price as a Giles Bertund. And I prefer titanium rails because they flex more, they're more comfortable, they're lighter, and so I'm not really down with the stainless steel construction of the Utmost. I just think it should be titanium if you're gonna make an expensive saddle. And I had prices written down here somewhere, along with oh yes. Let me grab an envelope.

SPEAKER_02 40:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Here's my I wrote this down on the back of an envelope. The Bertuned Arevist. Okay, that's their titanium, kind of like somewhat comparable to a B-17. B-17s are are better for more upright riding, where I would say the Bertune Aravist tie is better for having your handlebars a little bit lower than your saddle. Makes a big difference. So, you know, I still think the Brooks B-17 tie is the nicest, most comfortable saddle. Like that's what I do prefer on most of my bikes, but on my faster bikes, I tend to put the Arevist. And so the Burtoned Arevist with its natural veg tan leather, nice and thick, takes a long time to break in. It's a beautiful saddle, very well made. 400, sorry, $339 at 440 grams. Okay. The Brooks B-17 tie, which is what I like to ride on most all of my bikes, it's gotta be titanium. I don't mess around with the standard Brooks. I mean, it not only is it, I mean, you might as well, you gotta, you know, you gotta have at least the the champion or special. I call that the special, where they have the hand hammered copper rivets. So the Brooks B-17 tie, $300, 425 grams. Okay. So that's still winning here. Now the Brooks Utmost is also $300, so same price as the B-17 tie, but it weighs about 40 grams more. Okay. Nicer leather though, so maybe the leather weighs a little more. The Brooks basic, 528 grams. Don't even mess with that, folks. That that Brooks basic, like put that on your heaviest riv, but that's it. Like that saddle weighs three times easily as much as you know a modern, you know, race-inspired saddle. Of course, comfort is very important, but I just can't I just can't give up grams like that anymore. So, you know, take it as you will. I I still do think that this new set new quote unquote new saddle, I just think they should could have marketed it, marketed it a little differently. I just think that all of their saddles should be nice leather like that. But, you know, if you want something a little nicer, a little nicer offering from Brooks, try the utmost. I think you might like it. Well, that's I could go on and on and on about saddles, and I I guess I oh you know what? I wanted to give a shout out to both Wailer of Rolly Pulley Coffee, Whaler Taylor, and Peter of Dear Susan, because they were the ones featured in all of those Brooks videos leading up here, and they were they were fun to watch. Really like those too. So fun little videos, liking old things, old things that are new, and so forth. Yeah, I'm just watching you like fix your hair.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

I need you to stay engaged with me. If I'm just going on and on about saddles and I just see you like picking your nose. That's what I think all of our listeners are doing too. I need this confidence. Yeah, I've lost I've lost it. Oh, I guess if yeah, to sum it all up, I know the utmost they only have like uh maybe five hundred of these. It's a limited edition thing. I don't know how well how fast they're gonna sell, but at $300, really not that bad for a saddle of that quality, honestly. I thought they were gonna be more expensive. So I would put the utmost on any of my upright bikes because the titanium railed ones, especially in the honey and brown, are really hard to come by right now. So yeah, I would I would I would I would put the utmost on any of my uh you know upright builds that I'm not too concerned about the weight on. Which is less and less these days. I am a weight weenie. Card carrying.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Yep. I I blame the road race watching for that.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the road road racing is all about aerodynamics now. Like the like gram counting was something of my road racing era. So maybe it's I'm just um I'm just uh nostalgic for the gram counting of the aughts.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Maybe. I just feel like they mastered the gram counting and they needed something else to focus on. And then they brought in the arrow stuff.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Sorry to talk about road racing this early in the podcast, folks, but yeah, it was the UCI put up. Because readers questions.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Thank you for those sound effects. It's you really are a master at that. Okay, so we have someone who asked if I'm gonna get right into it, okay, Janie?

SPEAKER_00 45:32

And where can where can reader where can listeners write in for their reader questions if they or listener questions?

SPEAKER_01 45:41

It's in the show notes. You can say like write a fan mail or like ask a question.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

It doesn't seem like people have been having a hard time finding it. But yeah, if you have one, send it this way rather than emailing it to us because I know I had a few emailed to me, but it's kind of hard to search for it in the email, whereas this we could just click a button and they're all there.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Yeah, yeah. It keeps all like it we both have ADD, and it's nice when all of the pod-related questions go into one bucket. So it is best to use that link. It's like a buzz brought link. So we're gonna get better at this, but we ask Jenny, because this is a nice segue from your your saddle TED talk there.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Still sniffing saddles, still sniffing saddles. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

For a really good reason though. Like it's it's good to know why you like it so much. Like, so I appreciate you explaining that because I I'm sure other people have issues with their undercarriage as well. But they ask, someone is asking, would you say saddles make or break a bike? And I think they were talking about in context of like looks.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Yeah. Yeah. Saddles being perhaps your most important contact point on the bike as far as feel, we'll get into feel first. Saddle, I mean, if you're not comfortable on your saddle, you're not gonna have a comfortable, I mean, it you're not gonna get into riding. It's you're just gonna you hear about that. I mean, what is it? That's the most common complaint out of a layman out there, a civilian, when you say you're at a family gathering and they're like, I like riding bikes too, but the sa I just can't sit on that saddle. I've got a gel cover and it just doesn't work. And you know, you're you we have to hold our tongues and be like, what is it, that meme? Being like that that the guy with his head about to pop, being like, if they only knew how much I know about Brooke Saddles and I want to tell them everything right now. So that's me. And yeah, you know, it's it's a lot of people don't like to put on the the lycra, the spandex and the padded shorts and everything. They just want to go out and ride their bikes and their gym shorts or whatever, whatever, or their their cutoff Daisy Dukes. Me. And so not that those aren't my gym shorts, also. But the so it's you know, and and saddle, and of course, undercarriages are extremely personal. You know, it's not only your undercarriage, but it's also a lot, they're all they're all all different. And so I always tell people to start with a leather saddle, a leather hammocked saddle, so that they could put in the time on it and and break it into their sit bones. And it it unlike a you know, a more standard saddle, the leather saddles form to your sit bones, like it becomes personalized to you. So as far as comfort goes, absolutely. You know, if you're on a bad saddle and it's treating you treating you wrong, you know, that whole experience is tainted. Get it? Tainted. Yep. So as far as looks go, even more so. Like I will ride an uncomfortable saddle just for the look. Okay. The flight titanium is the most beautiful saddle, perhaps one of the most beautiful bicycle products ever created. Hands down. Full stop.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Period. Big period, full stops, all that stuff. It's just you just cannot deny. The flight titanium, the lines of the flight titanium, even the box. It's just it's I I collect flight titaniums, and oftentimes I just leave them in the box. I have box I have just flight titanium boxes littered around the barn. These things, I guess, being from my era of early 90s mountain bikes, Tinker Warz famously rode a flight titanium, pushed all the way forward on the saddle rails with a with seemingly like two feet of seat post. And that's what I did. I had no one to tell me otherwise. I did that on my bike way too high, and that's what essentially crushed my urethra. But that saddle looked so good that I had to keep riding it. And nowadays I do, I am able to uh stand a flight as long as my handlebars are low enough and you're not putting a bunch of weight on the on the back. You know, you there's a there's a balancing act here with your saddle. You know, you're you're a lot of people think like, oh, I've got to be completely upright. Well, you have to use if you're gonna be completely upright, you've got to have a wider saddle to support all that extra weight that's being put on the saddle. It's gotta go somewhere. If you're taking the weight off of the handlebars, it's going directly to the saddle. So, you know, so if you're putting the handlebar down lower, well, more weight is going on your hands and less on your saddle. So you can ride a skinnier, you know, less more racy saddle. That's just how it works, folks. It's not just uh upright bikes are always more comfortable. That's a fallacy. You know, it's all about balancing between your handlebars and your saddle. Now, you know, if you're gonna choose, there's a lot of like ugly ass saddles out there that I honestly don't know why people go ahead and do because you could have like a I saw this at I saw this at I spoke in the UK. One of my favorite bikes, I won't name any names, one of my favorite bikes at that show was perfect, like no notes except for I I don't know what saddle it had on there, but it had like a had a saddle that just ruined the whole bike. Like I was like, I can't look at this. Like if you're especially if you're gonna bring it to a show, like even if that's your personal preference, you know, reserve that for your personal rides when no one's gonna see it. Or if you're on a group ride, don't stand up, you know. Honestly. You know, so you're gonna, you know, so yeah, I guess that answers that that question. I mean, yeah, I mean, it can make or break a bike. I thought my saddle for the at MAID for the past two years have been flight titaniums for my show bikes. I had one on the the first EVU, the red one. I had that that Valentino red flight titanium, very rare. Last year on my CR1, I had a zebra print flight titanium TT, which is even less padding. And I have those two bikes were built from those saddles. Like those were the first pieces that I got of the build, and they were and those builds were entirely imagined around those saddles. So, you know, saddles are important, not just for comfort, but for looks. You gotta you gotta talk about these things, especially, you know, if you're gonna be if you're like living in a city and you're parking these things like in a you know, outside Whole Foods or whatever. I don't know, you know, you're just gonna leave local co-op. Sorry, local co-op. If you're parking these things outside your local co-op, people are sniffing. People be out there sniffing, you know? So, you know, think about that. You're putting yourself out in the world, you want to put on your best face. And sometimes your best face is your best saddle.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Sometimes your best face is on your ass.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

One last thing I'll say about leather saddles, the car the cutouts, the carves, as Brooks Brooks calls them. You're I'm able to do you're able to do a cutout on a like a Giles Breton with the thicker leather, but on the thinner leather of the Brooks in the last decade at least, those saddles will wear out in like six months, honestly. Like it's because there's less leather there, so it offers more stretch. Very comfortable in the beginning, but that's why I don't ride the cutout saddles, is because they're comfortable for a little bit, but they just wear out way too quickly. So if I'm doing a cutout, I go for like the you know, one of the cambiumps with the cutout. I find those to be pretty nice.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

I've had I've had a lot of great experiences with the cutouts.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Yes, lighter, a lighter rider. That's the that that would be the exception. If you're a lighter rider, around 100 pounds, you're not gonna have many issues with your saddle stretching out.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Yeah, I'm 110, 5'2 for reference. So it it really makes a really big difference for me. And knock on whatever wood I have near me, I've never gotten a saddle sore. I think the cutout also makes it makes like the leather saddle even more breathable. I don't know if that's science or if it's just how it feels, but um, it does feel quite nice. Like I wouldn't wear a chamois, you know, if I needed if I had the cutout well.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

You use the the B17. The B17 S, the short nosed with the cutout.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Short nosed, yeah. I definitely need the short nose.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

At 110 pounds, you are not any Brooke saddle, you will not wear it out. I'm talking about I'm 175 pounds. You know, if you're up up there, you know, your saddle's gonna wear it quick.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Get a more robust saddle. Yeah, get something more robust. If you're like me, it's just gonna take so long to break that in that it is it is going to hurt.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

That's right. I put I put that short new short nosed uh Arabist or whatever they call the short, I think they call that the put the birthuned, short-nosed, the cork one on your and how long that's taken way too long for you to break in, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Yeah, yeah. It took uh it took a while, probably like two years.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

So you you'd have that same problem on the utmost also on the new Brooks saddle. It's just so that's you know, that is the trade-off. I think they may have made their leather thinner just to make the break-in period less arduous, but the trade-off being that it's for heavier riders. I'm not I don't think I'm heavy, but yeah, not gonna last as long. Okay, okay. Okay, I think we answered that question.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

Thank you for that question, answer. So the next question is how do we feel about cargo bikes and our cargo bikes alt? This question comes from Bristol, Tennessee from John W.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

The other John Watson. Interestingly enough, the John Watson, very much into cargo bikes, just got one that he brought back with him from bespoke in the UK. And I have I don't honestly, I don't think I've ever ridden like a dedicated cargo bike other than the crust Clydesdale Fork. Uh I had Crust Clydesdale Fork Darren Larkin designed. He right when Krust started selling those, we got one, and I remember I put it like a big bucket on the front, and I used to ride you around in the bucket.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Along with my nephews.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

And then his nephew, who is now taller than me, used to fit in that bucket.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

And what else would I use it for? I think I took it on a few like local camp trips, and it was cool to just to like throw cast iron pans in there and like all this other shit.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

We also did uh order fulfillment with we were just doing t-shirts for Poppy's public restroom and pizza.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

That was the first business name.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Oh my god, hold on a moment. I just got I just very serious. I just this is breaking news, folks. Matt Engel, my cousin, just texted me. Well, I broke my rear rim on day three, 30 miles from civilization. Today was quite the hike. Oh no. Well, I'll text him back. Hold on, we'll pop we're running a podcast here.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Oh man, that that that's rough because he is in a really tough part of the row.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Well, at least he isn't he is in America again.

unknown 57:49

I guess so.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

I mean Canadians or yeah. Okay, well, uh side note, I just thought that was great to have a live update right here.

unknown 58:01

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 58:02

Oh no. He's doing pretty good. So he hiked for 30 miles yesterday, apparently. Well, Matt.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

Yikes. That's that's a rough section. Rough section.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

Rough section indeed. But that's what you're doing. That's what you're out there doing. I think that's why that's what's part of it. Um okay, where where were we in these listener questions? I'm sorry to interject like that.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Yeah, I think cargo bikes are cargo bikes. Um especially working off of the definition of alt bike being more like holistic lifestyle life and incorporating the bicycle into, you know, not just travel or exercise, but also like everyday things that you like you need to do, going to the grocery store, picking up your kids, you know, hauling whatever you need to haul from one town, one part of town to another. I totally feel that cargo bikes are all. I mean, we like in when I lived in Boston, we had huge trailers just filled with food for food not bombs that were built on cargo like, you know, it was rudimentary cargo style, it's not like electric cargo or whatever. But I think all of that combined makes cargo bikes totes alt.

SPEAKER_00 59:21

Totes alt. I'm thinking back to my the the release of the extra cycle. This was when I was finishing college. I I uh got an extra cycle in 2003. And Rob Roop, who shout out Rob Roop from one of the extras on Rad, the BMX, early 80s BMX movie, was a bike mechanic at Durango Cyclery, and he was able to wheelie one. And yeah, so he was he got he got a he got a free extra cycle from extra cycle because at Interbike that year he was able to wheelie one. And so then so then he sold it to me, and then I took it on my first ever bike tour, and I loaded with tra I just loaded trash bags full of clothing and put on a Tupperware container on the top of it and put a bunch of CD books in that Tupperware container. And I lost it was a 50 50 CD case logic. I lost it somewhere in Missouri, fell off the back.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

And was if anyone in Missouri could play Zoo for that case logic, we'd appreciate it. So you know, we like all of those hot water music CDs back.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

It's true, it was all hot. My entire collection up since so yeah, definitely all it's cool. I you see them a lot more in Europe. You don't see um where we live, it would it's you know, we we don't live in an urban area at all. I think a cargo bike would really suit us very well around here, but Troy has got a great our ultra dynamico shipper Troy has a has a uh extra cycle cargo bike that he's painted yellow and turned into a power loader. It has has like cat power loader stickers all over it. I think it's like the caterpillar theme. Yes, it's really good. And so he he brings you know the ultra dynamico tires to the post office that way. So, you know, we're using them around here, just uh not as much as more urban areas where they really do make sense where they replace your car entirely. All about it. All about it. Okay. Next one.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

Yeah, so this this is actually a good segue to if for the people looking for your CD book in Missouri. Someone asked, any thoughts on the band The Mars Volta? I wasn't they weren't old enough to like cool music or go to concerts in the early 2000s because they were about four to twelve years old. So I'm wondering if you had any Mars Volta CDs in that case logic.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Yeah, you know, I was there for that. And yeah, I was a big I was a big at the drive-in fan. Big at the drive-in fan. And I know most of my friends were also big at the drive-in fans, being from Texas. I'm not from Texas, but all of my adult friends that I met in Colorado were from Texas, and then I moved to Texas after that because I was just in this Texas sphere. Of course, at the drive-in being from Texas, also Mars Volta being from Texas, being from it's not coming to me now. Not Las Cruces, that's New Mexico. What the heck? Come on, give it to me. Give it to me. Border Texas border town.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:40

Texarcana?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

El Paso. El Paso. Tex Arcana? El Paso band. So I I did not ever see Mars Volta play live. I was one of the people in the split. So after at the drive-in got real popular, even Lenny Kravitz called them his favorite band.

unknown 1:03:06

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

Right? If Lenny Kravitz even acknowledged, I would jizz my pants immediately. I don't think that I mean we gotta talk about hot guys every podcast. Lenny Kravitz, one of the hottest there ever was and ever will be. Ever is. I mean, have you seen his workout routine?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

No, but I've seen his ding-dong falling out.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look that one up, folks. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

I think a young Javier Bardeem for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

Okay. Well, I'm I'm sticking with Lenny Kravitz, and I don't know why we're even talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

Young Javier Bardeem.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

So, yeah, at the drive-in, super popular. Then, of course, any kind of like, you know, 90s alt band that gets super popular has got to just break up and ax it or have one of their members commit suicide, something like that. You know, it's just part of the whole, part of the whole thing. So luckily, no suicide here. They just broke up and formed two other bands. Mars Volta is one of them, and Sparta was the other. And so the big question, I think, around a lot of campfires of people my age is who'd you go with? You don't even have to say at the drive-in, because it's just acknowledged that we were all at the drive-in fans. You just say Mars Volta or Sparta. I'm gonna say, you know, it's it's an unpopular opinion because Mars Volta is obviously the cooler of the two, but I'm Sparta all the way, baby. So Mars Volta, too weird for me. Just didn't get it. That first Sparta, that first Sparta record. I think even the second one. Fucking good, really good. So that's me.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

Yeah. I think I think around that time I was like listening to probably like Jimmy Eat World or something. Maybe uh the blue album from Weezer was on heavy rotation at the time. You were so Operation Ivy.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

So were you were you so blue album Weezer? That's another question. You go, blue or green? Are you are you blue album or are you Pinkerton? And I a lot most a lot of it's the it's I'm telling you right now, it's the cooler thing to say is Pinkerton, but I'm blue all the way. So I think one of the best albums of all time.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

No, there's no like Beyonce's Lemonade, like it is too good. I think I also liked at the time, you know, like Dashboard Confessional.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

These are all the sappiest odd stuff. So Alcaline trio. It's it's it's a tough call for me too, if I wasn't interested. So I can't I always came from a very like male dominated scene of cycling and hardcore.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

Oh, you don't say so.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

I was never like I didn't have I didn't have girlfriends because they were there were never any there and or there you know or or if they were they were very content that it was they were they I mean it's there's a lot of guys and only a few women that's been my life and so it's like you know I think maybe we started listening to these like softer you know who we'd say maybe we like dashboard in hopes of maybe attracting somebody you wish that you were anywhere with anyone anyone making it exactly but you know but wholeheartedly especially at that time like a less hardcore hardcore was more my teen my early high school years and then I got more and more and more into metal and death metal Swedish death metal no you know Scandinavian black metal but you know I say like you know melodic Swedish death metal was my favorite music at that time when Mars Volta was coming out so that's what I was listening to primarily. Nowadays again I really like that new that band Slomosa I talked about them earlier on and I just listened to this other I I was watching KXP K whatever you know what I'm talking about those live performances live performances that are on YouTube and I just caught this band Agriculture holy shit I was super impressed by that but it's kind of like very experimental black metal rock they throw like every single genre into one and it not often that is a disaster but it came out real nice but you know I like some I like some slow like sludgy atmospheric shoe gaze type stuff nowadays that's what I'm into but so yeah favorite favorite favorite band Aglock probably favorite uh album probably I don't even know how to say it Aviatic Aviax songs by Ohm. I could listen to that album over and over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

Opath another one of my favorite bands not their newer stuff but like the early stuff and of course you know yeah I we'll talk about more we'll talk about music more on this podcast I'm sure we love we the two of us love rumors that's what we used to listen to around the fire when we were touring together I used to love we would just put on that that album we would mag rumors around any campfire anywhere in the desert while we were bike touring and start making our our meals around the campfire and I just have such daddy daddy's so strong okay well so I hope that answers that question I'm more all over the place with my musical taste like it's it's up to my mood I like hip hop and R ⁇ B you know I like uh I like some like folk uh doom folk I like folk punk I like bluegrass you know it's it's it's all the it's all that stuff whatever whatever sounds good to my ears right now I know that Sally's been listening to wet leg and mannequin pussy and I really like because of my friend teach Matt Molly I really like paramour you love don't don't forget Koge in Gambria rock and roll is the future so okay that we'll put a we'll put a cap on that um to get back into bikes for music someone asked how do you recommend building the skill of reading like the geometry on a bike like how the angles and lengths on a geo chart translate to how that bike would ride and feel like performance wise and that's a definitely a question for you because I don't know I can't tell.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:59

That's a great question that's a deep deep head question right there. You know a lot of people speak about geometry as if they know what they're talking about. And I don't think many people I think it's a secret of a lot of riders out there that they don't actually know what they're talking about because there is so many Are you one of them? I have been I really you know it wasn't really until about I guess like 10 years ago that I I mean I guess that's a while ago that I really started to get into bicycle geometry and it was because of having to go I think without having tasted the extremes of each end of the spectrum you can't find the center. And so I've done extremes that's how I've been able to form my opinions and because the pendulum swinging the whole way you get that whole range of experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

As an extreme person I am on that roller grace. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:59

I won't go into specifics of the extremes but you could use your imagination there there's the you know bicycle geometry has gone through so many different reworks over the years and it's it's one of the few things that you can improve upon in knowing what you know in modern times. You can improve upon a bicycle's geometry and what I mean by that is it's tire clearances tire sizes wheel sizes head tube angles C tube angles bottom bracket drop top tube length and so forth. You can go and tweak all of these things and it's not added technology right it's not it doesn't automatically make it so you have to have electronic shifting or suspension here or there or or putting zerts inside your frame or putting a head shock on the front those awful specialized experiments. You know you're you're able to improve your bicycle in ways that you just can't by adding on these Tchotchke add-ons. So you're able to improve a bicycle without making it look garish still maintaining classic lines in some regards and I just find that to be really cool because that's basically what I'm after with my own bike company but it's just a a way to improve a bike without making it look modern you can have a modern bike without make well it looking modern so to speak. You can use older materials and things like older construction methods. And so you know I really like a I like especially where we ride around here we have a lot of steep climbs. There's very little there's very little flat between climbs if at all and so we're either going up or down and so if you live in a place like that you're gonna really benefit from a steeper seat tube angle. And what I mean by that is like a traditional seat tube angle like on a road bike is like 73 degrees or 72 even 72 and a half. So you go steeper, you know upwards of 75 you've got a and a with a zero offset seat post, you've got a really nice angle that your body is at when you're on a steep slope you're already like in a climbing position. Off road especially you're getting like really good traction like that. On the road you're just able to pedal more efficiently and get the power over the pedals. But if you do that you got to lengthen your top tube because you've just pushed your whole body forward. So you either have to get longer stem or you have to lengthen your top tube. For me on most of those bikes I'm already at like a 120 stem because I have such long torso anyway. So I've got to have a longer top tube. So that's what I look out for on my bikes. I like a longer front center which is modern it's what you're seeing a lot of the more modern race bikes like the special the S Works Crux or the Allied able things like that. Those have long front centers, slacker head tube angles so you don't get a bit you know your toe overlap or you have a your point of your point of attack like that's another thing to think about like a a head tube angle that's like you know you know like a standard road bike or mountain bike for that matter just a few years ago if not a few years ago 15 20 years ago vintage mountain bike head tube angles are you know in the 80s they were pretty slack you know well say slack I'll say you know 70 degrees or below. And now they and then in the 90s the everything wanted to be a little bit quicker handling and so you got things became a little more compact you had like 72 degree head tube angle that changes the bike's handling like immensely. Like wheel flop is something a lot of I guess if you were to uh ride your bike and just pay attention to how much input you have to put on the handlebars in order to keep the bike tracking straight. You know that's something that the geometry dictates fairly fairly well like something that you can get an input on how things handle. Like just take out your if you have a mountain bike and if you have a road bike just take those out and feel the differences between the two because that's a big extreme difference it should be if you have modern bikes uh between the two and you can see how oh this is how a slack head tube angle and and this is a you know a steep head tube angle. You could feel the differences right there. And a lot of times just kind of cutting the difference from each end you find a nice middle point. That's what I've been able to do on a lot of my bike designs and I'm just trying to make my bike comfortable over the long run. So you know I'm not like you know I don't have a super racy position but I want to be able to achieve that racy position if I need to you know at the end of like a 60 or 70 mile ride if I'm just trying to get home and it's windy, you know, I'm just trying to put the power into the pedals and get there. I don't know if I'm answering any questions here but you know those there's some really good stuff in there as like a beginner bike looker I guess that's me.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:52

No I think I think I'm intermediate because I've looked at a lot of bikes. But I've learned from you Jenny that you know knowing your own body from what you just said is is pretty nice. Like if you have short legs long torso short torso long legs long arms like it's just every body is different. And so if you can start with that base of knowing yourself individually and then applying what you know about your body structure to the leg structure like okay how select is the head tube angle am I going to have enough you know clearance I don't have to overlap or whatever it is. But for me I tend to look at from what you've taught me I I tend to look at you know the C tube angle for sure I look at the wheelbase like I look at like clearance um and definitely the the head tube angle.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:55

Yeah these are all things that you've taught me from like cross racing the two times I did like you know having shorter chainstays makes it a little zippier you know yeah cross cross racing especially that's a great example is you know most a lot of people wanted to just make crossbikes their gravel bikes but cross bikes are designed with high bottom brackets to get over the barriers and steeper head tube angles because you the courses are tight right you know you've you're navigating between really tight lines and trying and it's not necessarily high speed like the higher the faster you're going the more slack the head tube angle should be and and so it's just going to track better. It's gonna be a little bit more jittery if you have a steeper head tube angle. Of course fork offset factors into all this too like low trail high trail stuff like that but you know that's a little bit more in the weeds but the but you know most fork offsets are like 55 50 millimeters you know it's not not not huge differences there. But yeah you know it's it's a high bottom bracket is not necessarily a great thing you know because it's you're you're you're a little bit higher on the bike you're sitting higher on the bike you're sitting above the bike whereas if you know a lower bottom bracket drop you're kind of down riding inside the bike which I tend to like a lot better. Higher bottom brackets are great for like low speed like the beat like the Cannondale Beast of the East M800 that was out in the 90s that was like a really high and tight mountain bike designed specifically for riding East Coast trails which are notoriously just hiking trails that we just have to basically do trials moves on to ride. And so a bike like that works really well in a situation like that. But if you wanted to take that bike off-road if you wanted to take that bike on a trail in like California, Colorado on a high speed single track descent, it's going to be a handful and a half. You're just not going to be able to hook up you you know I say all this but it is remarkable how quickly the body does adapt to whatever geometry you have. Like it's not an end all you know if you love a bike but the geometry's whack but you're like it it rides great for me but every time my friend gets on it he's like what the fuck is this? Like it usually takes like a ride or two but almost every bike can feel like your own if you know if you let it happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:17

Yeah I think that's where that's where I struggle with the geometry stuff because you know the first bike that I the that I loved was my 30th birthday bike that you gave me for my birthday which was the lugged specialized stump jumper.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:34

1985 yeah you know you look at that bike versus you know like my lightning bolt my crest lightning bolt it's a completely different bike different bike yeah and but when I'm riding on it I'm just like I'm having such a thing too riding my bike you know I can go fast I can just I'm concerned because I'm never going you know I'm never in it for pure performance.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:58

I'm in it for pure feeling and therapy and you know I think I think for me the fun part about understanding geometry you know at this elementary level that I do have is being like looking at a bike without any of like the the wheels to set up just frame and fork and being able to tell like oh that's a gravel bike or oh that's that's probably a cross bike that's probably going to be good for the trails out west or out east. You know like it's it is fun being able to see and then you see the ones that are kind of wacky like oh what what is what is that that is a very long reach like what is that about you know that's that's just fun to be able to see.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:43

Yeah um but yeah and I would I would I would implore everyone to go on bike insights.com it's an exceptional website where you could compare all these different sizes of bikes that people have inputted there and you could compare like your current bike to maybe a bike that you're curious about and you could see all the geometry differences and they'll tell you like they'll they'll give you a a breakdown of it all it's super rewarding. I love just messing around on that website. Yeah that's a great way to understand frame geometry I mean would highly recommend bikeinsights.com well well we are we are one hour and 24 minutes in here already so how did that happen yeah I'm not gonna talk about well why I'm mad again deferred yet again folks and we also have some pro cycling stuff to get into here so psych on that one well I can't say I can't say I can't say really quickly del Toro Isaac Del Toro of Mexico of Baja Mexico Baja California Mexico Entenada yeah not even that far from from San Diego this is basically a win for for the North American continent in Turtle Island here. So had won the Dauphinet which is now called something else but I don't know what it I can't remember. Such a stupid thing that they had to rename a classic race like this. But it was a stage race traditionally leading up to the tour it kind of gives us a glimpse of how everyone's doing Paul Sexas was in there also he cra he was favored to win but he crashed hard uh the day before the last stage and abandoned the final day so that was all left to Isaac Del Toro to basically easily win it. Juan Ayuso who was in the news a lot last year as being he was on the same team as Del Toro on UAE he left after being basically being butthurt that they had let Del Toro be like their main guy and because Del Toro Ayuso was young but Del Toro was like he had a bit of like the reality TV villain art. Yes he did he still looks at you see his his updated photo he's he's mean mugging like I believe he was second on the podium and then we had an Australian rider another young Australian rider who was a Neo pro who held the yellow jersey the yellow jersey is the dauphinet is like a pre-tour de France thing so they get to wear a yellow jersey too and so yeah this this neo this Australian Neo Pro can't remember his name but he's uh he got third so pretty exciting stuff on my last question to you Jenny is if all of them if Juan Isak and Paul peed in a badon um and then dumped it out would you put water in it and drink out of it? Yeah that's urine sterile folks and all these butt bottles that I'm peeing in myself out on the you know I think that's what that question was based towards you know well we're peeing in our water bottles inside our sleeping bags so we don't want to get up in the cold in the morning yeah we're drinking out of them later what are we gonna what else are we gonna do with those water bottles?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:56

Can you use I statements please?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:59

I've seen you do it whether you know it or not consciously but I guess every water bottle I've drank out of has bronze pea in it or yours yeah yeah so you know a little pea does a little pea never hurt anyone if you let it sit around in there for a few days maybe not but if it's pretty gnarly no problem you drank your own pea before you said it tastes like green tea tastes like green tea I'm like one of those people you know who uh would go out on these trips and be be proud of running out of water your friends are like we'll just filter some and I'm like that's okay I I saved my pea I've just been sipping that and they're like what and I'm like yeah that's how you were when we met.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:50

Yep that's me drinking pee.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:53

Tastes like green tea why waste it so in the stand we were going to talk about in the stand in the beginning of each podcast leading forward but I basically have the same shit in the stand as I did last week. But I could elaborate more on the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:10

Since we're running out of time here Jenny let's save like a newer structure for when we release on Tuesday. Agreed agreed so well because of all of the great democratic process feedback we've gotten the show has been formatted to fit your needs listeners. And so next Tuesday we'll introduce a different format to focus less on racing more on bikes and music and culture and recipes people have been a lot of recipes about that's awesome incredible incredible cook super helpful and very much a fiber friend so we'll get into all of that next episode let's just wrap this up because there's like a there's like a car that's like beeping some work happening here at Forest Park so it's annoying me and you're gonna go meet some you're gonna go meet some OnlyFans in in Forest Park no that's gotta be I mean never confirmed but that's gotta be for but it's not for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:31

It's gotta be such a cruising spot I mean any any wooded place in a city right yeah yeah the city's hot and so are its residents. That's true. That's true. All right well thank you for calling in and joining me today sweetheart it's been wonderful seeing you for you I miss you and please give Sally my love Sally at Shovel Research and yeah enjoy the rest of your time there.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:01

Oh and support Shovel Research go buy shovel research stuff they make incredible things uh like the epitome of all bulk I would say yeah agreed pure nerdom pure nerd see her organized drawers it's in it's amazing it's amazing very soothing for the soul um great spending all of this time with you my love likewise sweetie well folks out there listening in the greater digital world radio waves of WKY jelly we thank you for listening for an hour and 31 minutes we'll see you next Tuesday I'm Ronnie Romance and I'm Arian Portland